I think you are correct on all of your points. Custom knives are momentarily rewarding but rapidly become selfish pursuits that can't be shared with others. There is a certain pleasure in seeing someone else talk about and show a custom, or one-off knife. But a large part of sharing this hobby is relating to each other on the qualities of knives, and this can only be accomplisehed in the production or low volume series. So people will be working "below the line" but not necessarily experiencing "lesser quality." Moreover, with the rapid gains in quality, fit, and finish in the production world, it's getting harder and harder to justify a $1200 custom knife, when the $3-500 ZT/Reate/CRK/Millit is so damn nice AND functional. Cheers!
As an exclusive collector of Z-hunters, I'm glad to be in the large volume production line, though recently, I find myself chasing down the elusive "art knives" of Z-hunter--those signed by Nick Shabazz.
Sophat: I'm not asking you to pay up front, never! $10,000 is just the deposit to reserve your place in my Z-Books. The full, non-refundable price is $80,000 (payable by bank wire, paypal (+fees), gold, gems, or pirate treasure), but you won't be charged that until I'm ready to ship. And given the amount of handcrafting here, that might be decades. But just think how cool you'll look at Blade Show with your signed Z-Hunter.
Most informative overview and breakdown on the subject I have seen. I have not come across another video remotely similar. Excellent topic idea to discuss.
Excellent analysis. Thanks, Nick. This hobby is not for everyone, to be sure. But for those who find joy in it, it's important to keep things in perspective. Large and small production are indeed the sweetest of all spots for regular humans who need to eat and live and care for others. Good on everyone else who has the wealth and time to deal with and support custom/art makers. They have to eat, too! But, for the rest of us, it is a thing of beauty to own a thing of beauty, and so much the better if it doesn't break the bank. Thanks again, Nick. You ain't getting rich doing what you do, but please know it is deeply and sincerely appreciated. LLAP
This was another great video Nick. Rockstead is another smaller batch production knife company that are of insanely good quality, but are commensurate in price with many customs. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge, cannot afford one now lol. I think that for high volume production knives, many of the Spyderco and ZT's offer the best bang for the buck.
Only a few times have I watched a talk/information video with full attention the whole time but this is one of them. All of the interesting comments were shared in knife harmony & good taste. Well spoken Nick.
those even able to spend any of their Income on high end cutlery should be thankful. people in our community drop 200-2000$ (some even more) on knifes like its nothing, while other people struggle to pay bills. Gotta be grateful for having any extra room in the budget for blades.
Amen! And part of the point of this is to remind people that your $300 "grail" may be just as nice and "worthy" as the guys who buy and sell customs like they were Z-Hunters.
Very awesome breakdown! Well done nick. Todd Begg, and Kirby Lambert are my favorite custom knife makers. I definitely find their knives to be sculptures that happen to cut. Thank you Nick
Multiple thumbs up to you regarding these broad comparative perspectives. You do these overviews periodically, and they are super "gems" that are highly appreciated. Respect!
I've often thought the term "custom" was misleading. "Custom" implies "made to user specifications," but it's usually used in the knife world to refer to a degree of hands-on action from the maker. Thanks to most of the knife artisans closing their order books due to volume, there's very little actual "custom" to be had at that level.
Agreed Nick. Even a few hundred bucks is a ton for most people to invest in something nowadays.. especially a knife. And when you have companies like ZT churning out damn near perfection that's available pretty much anywhere for $200, it's hard to argue for customs beyond the art level. My priciest knives are my BRS Premium Alpha Beast, Microtech Combat Troodon, and a one-off Olamic Wayfarer Compact. None of them are better than my ZT 0562CF for actually cutting something, and if that's what's most important for a collector or knife user, there's the value. It's all relative as well, someone bringing in $500k a year probably doesn't mind having a couple thousand invested into knives every year. But for someone like me where a $400 knife takes me a few months to save for, it just doesn't make too much sense to go for custom/art knives. Hell, even "midtechs" can be a slippery slope. 3 or 4 of them and you're probably looking at over a thousand dollars. Knives ain't cheap. Nice video.
Midtech is a very broad term... I think of it as a knife that is between custom and production, usually a custom knife that is machined for the maker and then finished by the maker. Also worth noting... Todd Begg knives are Midtechs, not handmade elements on a production. Todd has 3 lines of knives, Steelcraft - his production line made by production knife company Reate, his Midtechs like the Field Grade Bodega and the Titanium Bodega that most everyone knows, and his full customs which are all hand worked by Todd and start at around $5,000.
Years ago, I had a Eutsler regulator before he was really a known name--or at least I hadn't heard of him. I got it from him on ebay for 500 bucks or so, and he even agreed to refinish part of it to better suit my tastes. Sort of wish I hadn't sold that.
As a consumer, I actually like having something else that others might alsk have. I equate the 'specialness' of customs with isolation. The conversations about the knife become boasts rather than staying at the standard level of discussion. Having something that very few can have (if at all) does nothing for me as a member of the knife community. Is that wierd?
+CedricAda Gear and Outdoors Well put, and that's something that's always bothered me about reviewing one-offs. It's hard to have it not be "Gaze upon my greatness and weep".
CedricAda Gear and Outdoors : I agree. A "gem" status should not be based on boasts and the price tag. It is self-defeating if you want to enjoy using something for its form and function, but are too afraid to use it. Art is fragile and meant for a pedestal.
Well put! I think that we are talking about different people here -- not only about the knives that belong to them. It is inevitable that, as human beings, we like to have, from time to time, something that others do not or cannot have; as well as, ocasionally, we want to have exactly what everybody else has. There is some dynamic to it, as in every aspect of human attitude and behaviour. If we think about tendencies, though, one has to take into consideration the financial capability to buy what they desire. I believe that most of the people would like to acquire what they perceive as VALUE -- meaning, grossly, the best for less, where BEST means the most desireable for a particular person. That is why many of us keep watching demo and review videos, and compare prices from different sources, over and over again. And that is why marketing is a big player in this game.
Awesome topic. Well done. It’s crazy how it gets confusing. A guy made a video. It was a Jake Hoback knife. The guy called it a custom knife. But it was a Hoback production knife. The knife was expensive so he assumed it must be a custom knife. The knife did not have the value he thought it had. I felt bad for the guy.
couldn't agree more with you +Nick Shabazz! I have a couple of custom knives which I will never part with but 99% of my collection consists of production and small volume production. I came to the conclusion, after buying a custom knife which I didn't care very much for, when I sold I took a solid hit financially. To transfer it to the HIFI world, I had some B&W 600 series which I bought new and was very happy with them, but when I was offered a great deal on the Nautilus speakers, I sold my 600 series for almost the same price as I paid for them. But I have to mention that I had to change amp and cables (normal speaker copper wire) when I got the Nautilus speakers in. But I can rest assured that if I want to sell them, I won't take a huge financial hit as I did on my custom knife.
Mr Nick: I just watched your review of the 2017 Shot Show, interesting. In looking at the makers of a couple knives I flashed on what steered me away from a love I've had since I was 5. I kept coming on some very angry persons who were making and promoting their offering. The in fighting between some makers was really ugly at times. Finding your website has steered me back to the belief there is more than fare objectivity with no anger and drama in viewing something we love. Keep it up your doing it right
I don't understand the outrageous prices of custom knives and even mid techs..Knives only consist of very few parts compared to other products..IMO-a good production (or low production) knife tops out in the $250-$400ish range..On a custom, I get it that the build quality is better..The materials, hardware, blade steel may be better..Are they really that much better for the price ? The knives all do the same thing.. There's nothing earth shattering added to an expensive custom..You made some good points in the video..
Scarcity can add value to anything and everything!... sports cars, diamonds/jewelry, designer clothing, Jordan sneakers etc etc Its why vintage axe prices on ebay have sky rocketed in recent years... theres only soo many vintage axe heads in the world and theres even fewer of those axe heads that have been properly maintained and are still serviceable (those old timers were rough on there axes/edge tools back in the day) and with the current bushcrafter/survivalist/prepper trend of this day and age, high quality vintage axes are in extremely high demand... and of course custom knives have a vary high scarcity value as well, as a maker may only make so many knives a year, may only make a certain model/design a limited number of times, could shut down there small production without notice due to health issues or what not, etc etc these are just a few examples of the type of things that can make custom knives so expensive.
Great video, very informative, and comprehensive. I would say I agree with most, if not all of what your saying. It all makes perfect sense. In the current folder climate, the lines between what people are calling custom, mid tech, and high end production are blurring. And honestly, I think it’s great. This drives competition and quality, making higher end knives more accessible for more people. There’s still the strictly customs, and semi customs. For me, I think high-end production, is as high as Im able to achieve, financially, and practically. I have to be able to carry, and use, my high end knives without being afraid of a scratch, or any signs of use. They don’t get used heavily, and are still collection pieces. They’re mostly pocket jewelry, in case a cutting task arises. Anytime I know I’m gonna be up against real, hard cutting tasks, say running through the woods like Rambo, cutting down trees to make a shelter, and hunting boar, with a knife, I have the less expensive, hard use knives for such tasks. I really don’t think I can bring myself to spend much more than $500 on a knife, however, I have a few Shirogorov’s that breached that boundary. In fact, all three have. I’ve been collecting folders, off and on, for the last 20 years. There’s something exhilarating about getting a new knife in the mail, especially when it’s a “grail knife”, or a higher end knife.
Nice video Nick, I did a similar rant recently and came to a similar conclusion, My categorization is slightly different, but small volume production is, in my opinion, the place to reliably get good knives at reasonable prices. General Production knives too often have problems and the higher cost knives are status pieces instead of tools.
I'd actually put Olamic's 247 in with the One-at-a-time category because, while (like Grimsmo knives) they have a "basic" model, most are customized and individual either with anodizing, different textures or patterns, or different grinds. Otherwise though I agree with your list 100%.
Some Guy: " No one uses the word fundamental or fundamentally more than I!!!" Nick Shabazz: "Hold my EDC gear while I destroy this man's whole world on a fundamental level in less than 25 minutes." But seriously, there is alot of good information here. I Hope everyone was paying attention, especially newer people to the mid tech/high end/custom collecting world. It can be a minefield.
Sounds like there's a fine line between 'serious collecting' and 'obsessive addiction'. I guess it's only lack of money that keeps me out of either category. Well thought out review - thanks for posting.
*Excellent* video. Many interesting and helpful designations. While this type of art knife (as you indicated) is not something you have interest in buying, I was curious if you had ever seen any of the 'Art Knives' from Michael West? Even for custom handmade art knives, his are truly unique, using unusual materials such as long cut mammoth molar, mammoth tusk, Labradorite gemstone, ebony, etc. They are a thing of beauty and grace. I have an (admitted) obsession with various art, particularly fine custom wood sculptures and furniture, along with paintings, and West' work I find breathtaking, though none of these are things I could ever afford. The amount of saving and crimping I had to do just to afford the ZT 0452CF was, um, humbling, haha. But DAMN I love that knife like nobodies business, and your review convinced me to get that specific one. At any rate, if you are interested and find the time, take a look at his gallery sometime at Westknives. And a big thanks for all of your work and effort, I have learned more from your reviews than I thought was possible, and with some added laughs to boot, and that is just a...GEM.
Interesting video Nick. As you know, I collect folding knives in all categories For sure, if you are looking for a practical cutting tool, large and small volume production are the way to go. Art knives or safe queens are a category all their own and have little in common with production knives if we are talking about knives as strictly tools. But I really enjoy collecting customs and there is a satisfaction to owning a hand made work of art if you will. As far as networking and camaraderie, whether we are talking about a ZT or a Ron Best, there are folks in the knife community with whom I correspond, and unlike the other gentleman, I feel no sense of "isolation" WRT collecting customs.
Having "lost" an expensive knife in the mail, I don't think I could send a neto-cool knife like the Graham Custom in the mail. Mine came from S. Africa, and disappeared at NYC postal facility, hmmmm, maybe that explains it...Good points Nick...
Hey Nick, I saw what you "sub-conciously" pointed to when you mentioned quality control issues with some productions knives. HAHAHA. Ironically, I just watched your review of that particular brand last week! Love your reviews, keep them coming, and thank you. p.s. Can we get an AL Mar SERE & some We Knife Co. reviews soon!?!?!? -chuck
It all depends on the maker and what you are looking for. Some customs are made to be used. For example, Rob Saniscalchi from R.S Knifeworks makes full off customs. He has no CNC machines, nor does he rely on waterjet for his blades. He is a one man show. His prices are not crazy and you can have him build you want you want. Your build is unique to you and what you like, you can go basic or get really expensive. His warranty on his knives are, use the knife, and if you do mess it up, he will try to fix the knife, if he can't you get a brand new knife. You can take your knife down to maintain it. Granted there is a 12 month wait for his folders but to me, it's well worth it. Amazing knife maker, and awesome knives that are meant to be used.
I think Elliot of Ferrum said it best. midtech is any knife that uses machinery but also the maker, the man who's name is synonymous with the brand has a large hands on part in the completion of the knife.
The danger of that is that many cheap knives (CRKT, for instance) are hand-ground or hand-finished. So it's more than just "human hands". And does it matter to me if the person who finished the blade is, for instance, Jon Graham, rather than his son, if Jon inspects it?
@@NickShabazz Id class any mass production knives that have a human production element as semi-production (just under mid tech and above mass production) as thats what Esee terms themselves as, as they're mass produced but have certain finishing touches like handle forming to the blade blanks actually done by humans rather then machines...same goes for bark river and there hand sharpened convex edges, that's semi production to me. Mid tech to me personally is a semi custom, its between mass production and a one man custom... meaning the knife is typically made in small quantities and made with help from multiple people but to be mid tech in my eyes, the maker has to have some kind of hand work done during the knifes production... whether its heat treating, grinding, handle fit/finish whatever it may be... in my belief each mid tech knife should have at least one point of its production thats done solely by the maker, whom is the master knife forger... if i'm paying the premium price of a mid tech over a production knife, I at least like to think (even if its not always the case) that certain parts of production the maker does all on his own to ensure his product meets his brands standards and to me that's what bridges a mid tech between a mass production and a one man custom made knife. To try and put it a bit more clearly, if your buying a mid tech then your buying into that specific makers brand and helping support there ability to make a living doing what they love and well the maker is still a small enough company, making knives in small batch runs, where they have the ability to still be directly involved in the production process, I'd hope that they take the time to be involved in said production rather then passing it off to someone else whom is most likely less experienced. Since at the end of the day, its there namesake and there brand that's on the line and in small mid tech productions the maker should be involved as much as possible because if they ever become a fully mass produced company they'd lose that ability to be so involved in production and then that mid tech you have becomes extra valuable because it was made at a time when the maker still had a direct hand in production, which just isn't possible to maintain on a large scale production, even if that extra value is only in your eyes its something slightly special and unique...which is essentially the definition of a mid tech imo Sorry for writing a damn essay to read, just wanted to thoroughly explain my point of view as best as possible.
You know, personally, the furthest out I'd like to venture past Production is a CRK Ti-Lock. But that's just me. Others might opt for a true custom. Or gravitate to a true "tactical" knife that can withstand the apocalypse. Whatever floats one's boat is a medium one should embrace wholeheartedly. Again, for EXC practicality, I dig a Para 3. For fliptacticness, a ZT 0450. For beauty, a CRK Ti-Lock. For out and out build quality, a Slysz Bowie. But that's just me. YMMV. Peace.
Interesting as always Nick , and i"m sure the High End custom knife reviewers are breathing a sigh of relief that you're mostly done dabbling on their turf .
Some one examining a purchase on the secondary market would do well to consider the liquidity of the market for the knife of interest, as well. There's always the idea of relative proportional risked amount to also consider. The real interesting part is when you look at your answer to the question "What dollar amount really matters/will cause me to take notice?" Everybody has a different number/range. If $20 bucks means the world to you, there's a good likelihood buying and selling Slysz Bowies will be bad for your health. Others the $20 doesn't mean a whole lot and sell people there first Slysz Bowie way below the market because they don't care. Most are somewhere in the middle and closer to the $20 level. There is always the level of TH-cam rising star in his community who could easily claim all knife purchases as a deductible expenses against any revenues earned under the umbrella of his (or her) personal business. But that is only if you happen to be a TH-cam star.
Thanks and thanks for all the great videos. The economists would run me out town with torches and pitch forks, but the accountants ( which I am currently working as) actually do. Was a trader in a former career/life and market analysis is ingrained in my programing.
Hi! Great video for a very interesting subject. Would like to hear what category would you place DDR knives ? (not HTM of course) - I considered him in the same category as Brian Tighe making knives one at a time fully custom but recently saw a short documentary showing his entire shop run by several people - can he still be considered custom maker ?
Your opinions are yours but you're off on some things. Crk and Ferrum Forge aren't in the same category, Chris Reeve will probably not touch most of the sebenzas, he might expect acfew but thats it. FF knives have parts that are rough cut for them but Elliot and his brother do all of the work on the rest. Each blade is hand ground and might look similar to the other 99 but it'll be off. I go by Jim Skeltons definition which was taken from Ken Onion (the guy who coined midtech), there are production, midtech, custom and handmade custom categories and each one has its levels (like low end production ei cheap kershaw, crkt, certain spydercos and high end production like zt and high end benchmade and spyderco). Pimped knives are in a league of their own, sometimes the value increases and sometimes it devalues the knife.
Very interesting, what bugs me in when a collector shows his knife and then go's on to say how perfect it is but then says you can't get it now because it a limited run and I "have the last one"!
I'd just call them Small Volume. But the line between large and small is blurry, and not as crucial. The Spyderco Nirvana is made in low volumes, but by a high-volume manufacturer. And I suspect that CRK makes more Sebenzas each month than Reate makes of their higher-end models.
Oscar Bustos Not sure about Zieba but Moens are customs with lots of hand work and slight use of smart technology but its all done in shop. That's the difference between custom and midtech (or it used to at least), midtech is made by the maker whos name is on the blade but one or more parts were sent out out of shop (like gave someone cut out your blades or scales). Custom is all made by that maker with some use of smart tech but he is the one doing it. Then theres handmade customs which are all made by hand or low tech power tools like grinder (no smart tech like cnc or water jet) and bandsaw and each part is cut out one at a time.
Holy crap, Nick. That's the first time I've ever seen that customized Reysel on your channel. Is this yours, or was it a loaner? I might not know you perfectly well, but I see the show side and can actually hear your voice in my head saying "It looks like a kid got out of control with a hole punch and couldn't quite make it all the way through the titanium." Lmao.
Also, Medford appears to do the "Customized Production" approach. Many Marauders made, but each one might be tweaked to be a bit different. I'm not aware of any one-off customs from Medford that aren't modifications to existing production knives. But maybe I'm wrong. And remember, "less custom" does not mean worse. :)
Nick Shabazz hey have you checked out the walking reviews channel here on TH-cam? he's got some really nice stuff on the high end, as well as some on the low.
If the Grimsmo brothers ever make a smaller knife, ill break my wallet for it. To support a Canadian company that's family run would be awesome. And after watching their TH-cam videos I really want one even though it'll kill my bank XD Oh Canada eh
hey nick, with all the fake stuff going around could you do a video on how to tell a fake model from a real model. things to look for...i know you're very familiar with spyderco, maybe you can start with them.
That's tough, because it's very hard to keep ahead of the curve. If I identify 6 "tells", the fakers will address them. The best approach is to buy from trusted sellers only!
i usually stick to blade hq,but ebay has some tasty deals every once in awhile too and from what ive seen you cant fully trust amazon either. guess if its to good to be true its probably not....
eBay is dangerous as heck. I don't send people there ever. A good deal there is unlikely to be a good deal, unless it's from a very well respected seller or on something that just released last week (which hasn't been faked yet).
well im new to the whole knife world and have a lot to learn. i understand the whole clone thing and its a different story when a knife company borrows some design ques (im looking at you Ganzo), but a blatant rip off that tries to claim that its the original just pisses me off. Maybe you can suggest some reputable places to find a legitimate good deal.i sure would like to know where some of these youtubers pick up a $30 tenacious or $50 delica...
I think you are correct on all of your points. Custom knives are momentarily rewarding but rapidly become selfish pursuits that can't be shared with others. There is a certain pleasure in seeing someone else talk about and show a custom, or one-off knife. But a large part of sharing this hobby is relating to each other on the qualities of knives, and this can only be accomplisehed in the production or low volume series. So people will be working "below the line" but not necessarily experiencing "lesser quality." Moreover, with the rapid gains in quality, fit, and finish in the production world, it's getting harder and harder to justify a $1200 custom knife, when the $3-500 ZT/Reate/CRK/Millit is so damn nice AND functional. Cheers!
That was one of the most useful and enlightening discussions about knife collecting I ever saw. Thank you for this video.
As an exclusive collector of Z-hunters, I'm glad to be in the large volume production line, though recently, I find myself chasing down the elusive "art knives" of Z-hunter--those signed by Nick Shabazz.
There's "art" then there's "Z-Hunter signed by Nick Shabazz". My books are open, $10,000 deposit...
Damn Nick! Now I'll have to break your own rule of not paying upfront.
Sophat: I'm not asking you to pay up front, never! $10,000 is just the deposit to reserve your place in my Z-Books. The full, non-refundable price is $80,000 (payable by bank wire, paypal (+fees), gold, gems, or pirate treasure), but you won't be charged that until I'm ready to ship. And given the amount of handcrafting here, that might be decades. But just think how cool you'll look at Blade Show with your signed Z-Hunter.
ARKognition 119 😂
Realize that my normal background is foam drawer liner on a plastic table, so no knives were injured in the making of these videos.
Most informative overview and breakdown on the subject I have seen. I have not come across another video remotely similar. Excellent topic idea to discuss.
Excellent analysis. Thanks, Nick. This hobby is not for everyone, to be sure. But for those who find joy in it, it's important to keep things in perspective.
Large and small production are indeed the sweetest of all spots for regular humans who need to eat and live and care for others. Good on everyone else who has the wealth and time to deal with and support custom/art makers. They have to eat, too! But, for the rest of us, it is a thing of beauty to own a thing of beauty, and so much the better if it doesn't break the bank.
Thanks again, Nick. You ain't getting rich doing what you do, but please know it is deeply and sincerely appreciated. LLAP
This was another great video Nick.
Rockstead is another smaller batch production knife company that are of insanely good quality, but are commensurate in price with many customs. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge, cannot afford one now lol.
I think that for high volume production knives, many of the Spyderco and ZT's offer the best bang for the buck.
Only a few times have I watched a talk/information video with full attention the whole time but this is one of them. All of the interesting comments were shared in knife harmony & good taste. Well spoken Nick.
those even able to spend any of their Income on high end cutlery should be thankful. people in our community drop 200-2000$ (some even more) on knifes like its nothing, while other people struggle to pay bills. Gotta be grateful for having any extra room in the budget for blades.
Amen! And part of the point of this is to remind people that your $300 "grail" may be just as nice and "worthy" as the guys who buy and sell customs like they were Z-Hunters.
Very awesome breakdown! Well done nick. Todd Begg, and Kirby Lambert are my favorite custom knife makers. I definitely find their knives to be sculptures that happen to cut. Thank you Nick
Multiple thumbs up to you regarding these broad comparative perspectives. You do these overviews periodically, and they are super "gems" that are highly appreciated. Respect!
I've often thought the term "custom" was misleading. "Custom" implies "made to user specifications," but it's usually used in the knife world to refer to a degree of hands-on action from the maker. Thanks to most of the knife artisans closing their order books due to volume, there's very little actual "custom" to be had at that level.
Thanks again Nick, for your help and knowledge..Your a Gem.🐝Well
Agreed Nick. Even a few hundred bucks is a ton for most people to invest in something nowadays.. especially a knife. And when you have companies like ZT churning out damn near perfection that's available pretty much anywhere for $200, it's hard to argue for customs beyond the art level.
My priciest knives are my BRS Premium Alpha Beast, Microtech Combat Troodon, and a one-off Olamic Wayfarer Compact. None of them are better than my ZT 0562CF for actually cutting something, and if that's what's most important for a collector or knife user, there's the value. It's all relative as well, someone bringing in $500k a year probably doesn't mind having a couple thousand invested into knives every year. But for someone like me where a $400 knife takes me a few months to save for, it just doesn't make too much sense to go for custom/art knives.
Hell, even "midtechs" can be a slippery slope. 3 or 4 of them and you're probably looking at over a thousand dollars. Knives ain't cheap. Nice video.
Midtech is a very broad term... I think of it as a knife that is between custom and production, usually a custom knife that is machined for the maker and then finished by the maker.
Also worth noting... Todd Begg knives are Midtechs, not handmade elements on a production. Todd has 3 lines of knives, Steelcraft - his production line made by production knife company Reate, his Midtechs like the Field Grade Bodega and the Titanium Bodega that most everyone knows, and his full customs which are all hand worked by Todd and start at around $5,000.
I appreciate your anti-elitist anti-gatekeeping stances in this hobby Nick this video is the good shit
Small volume production will always be the best for me
Agreed, that's where you seem to get the most for the least!
Years ago, I had a Eutsler regulator before he was really a known name--or at least I hadn't heard of him. I got it from him on ebay for 500 bucks or so, and he even agreed to refinish part of it to better suit my tastes. Sort of wish I hadn't sold that.
As a consumer, I actually like having something else that others might alsk have. I equate the 'specialness' of customs with isolation. The conversations about the knife become boasts rather than staying at the standard level of discussion. Having something that very few can have (if at all) does nothing for me as a member of the knife community. Is that wierd?
+CedricAda Gear and Outdoors Well put, and that's something that's always bothered me about reviewing one-offs. It's hard to have it not be "Gaze upon my greatness and weep".
CedricAda Gear and Outdoors : I agree. A "gem" status should not be based on boasts and the price tag. It is self-defeating if you want to enjoy using something for its form and function, but are too afraid to use it. Art is fragile and meant for a pedestal.
Excellent point. Having something to share and discuss with others is what makes the "community".
Indeed gentlemen, on all points.
Well put! I think that we are talking about different people here -- not only about the knives that belong to them. It is inevitable that, as human beings, we like to have, from time to time, something that others do not or cannot have; as well as, ocasionally, we want to have exactly what everybody else has. There is some dynamic to it, as in every aspect of human attitude and behaviour. If we think about tendencies, though, one has to take into consideration the financial capability to buy what they desire. I believe that most of the people would like to acquire what they perceive as VALUE -- meaning, grossly, the best for less, where BEST means the most desireable for a particular person. That is why many of us keep watching demo and review videos, and compare prices from different sources, over and over again. And that is why marketing is a big player in this game.
Thanks for this very good substantial video on this topic :) I really like these overview videos they are the best, very helpful and informative!
Awesome topic. Well done. It’s crazy how it gets confusing. A guy made a video. It was a Jake Hoback knife. The guy called it a custom knife. But it was a Hoback production knife. The knife was expensive so he assumed it must be a custom knife. The knife did not have the value he thought it had. I felt bad for the guy.
Very well said Nick, agree with you on a lot of this. Really enjoy the channel.
couldn't agree more with you +Nick Shabazz! I have a couple of custom knives which I will never part with but 99% of my collection consists of production and small volume production. I came to the conclusion, after buying a custom knife which I didn't care very much for, when I sold I took a solid hit financially. To transfer it to the HIFI world, I had some B&W 600 series which I bought new and was very happy with them, but when I was offered a great deal on the Nautilus speakers, I sold my 600 series for almost the same price as I paid for them. But I have to mention that I had to change amp and cables (normal speaker copper wire) when I got the Nautilus speakers in. But I can rest assured that if I want to sell them, I won't take a huge financial hit as I did on my custom knife.
Mr Nick: I just watched your review of the 2017 Shot Show, interesting. In looking at the makers of a couple knives I flashed on what steered me away from a love I've had since I was 5. I kept coming on some very angry persons who were making and promoting their offering. The in fighting between some makers was really ugly at times. Finding your website has steered me back to the belief there is more than fare objectivity with no anger and drama in viewing something we love. Keep it up your doing it right
I don't understand the outrageous prices of custom knives and even mid techs..Knives only consist of very few parts compared to other products..IMO-a good production (or low production) knife tops out in the $250-$400ish range..On a custom, I get it that the build quality is better..The materials, hardware, blade steel may be better..Are they really that much better for the price ? The knives all do the same thing.. There's nothing earth shattering added to an expensive custom..You made some good points in the video..
Scarcity can add value to anything and everything!... sports cars, diamonds/jewelry, designer clothing, Jordan sneakers etc etc Its why vintage axe prices on ebay have sky rocketed in recent years... theres only soo many vintage axe heads in the world and theres even fewer of those axe heads that have been properly maintained and are still serviceable (those old timers were rough on there axes/edge tools back in the day) and with the current bushcrafter/survivalist/prepper trend of this day and age, high quality vintage axes are in extremely high demand... and of course custom knives have a vary high scarcity value as well, as a maker may only make so many knives a year, may only make a certain model/design a limited number of times, could shut down there small production without notice due to health issues or what not, etc etc these are just a few examples of the type of things that can make custom knives so expensive.
You sir are truly a wise man..I value your opinion
Great video, very informative, and comprehensive. I would say I agree with most, if not all of what your saying. It all makes perfect sense. In the current folder climate, the lines between what people are calling custom, mid tech, and high end production are blurring. And honestly, I think it’s great. This drives competition and quality, making higher end knives more accessible for more people. There’s still the strictly customs, and semi customs. For me, I think high-end production, is as high as Im able to achieve, financially, and practically. I have to be able to carry, and use, my high end knives without being afraid of a scratch, or any signs of use. They don’t get used heavily, and are still collection pieces. They’re mostly pocket jewelry, in case a cutting task arises. Anytime I know I’m gonna be up against real, hard cutting tasks, say running through the woods like Rambo, cutting down trees to make a shelter, and hunting boar, with a knife, I have the less expensive, hard use knives for such tasks. I really don’t think I can bring myself to spend much more than $500 on a knife, however, I have a few Shirogorov’s that breached that boundary. In fact, all three have. I’ve been collecting folders, off and on, for the last 20 years. There’s something exhilarating about getting a new knife in the mail, especially when it’s a “grail knife”, or a higher end knife.
Well said my friend, well said.
Nice video Nick,
I did a similar rant recently and came to a similar conclusion, My categorization is slightly different, but small volume production is, in my opinion, the place to reliably get good knives at reasonable prices. General Production knives too often have problems and the higher cost knives are status pieces instead of tools.
Zelrick you’ve got some great videos man keep up the good work.
Very well stated. Nice job.
nice analysis nick
I'd actually put Olamic's 247 in with the One-at-a-time category because, while (like Grimsmo knives) they have a "basic" model, most are customized and individual either with anodizing, different textures or patterns, or different grinds. Otherwise though I agree with your list 100%.
Some Guy: " No one uses the word fundamental or fundamentally more than I!!!"
Nick Shabazz: "Hold my EDC gear while I destroy this man's whole world on a fundamental level in less than 25 minutes."
But seriously, there is alot of good information here. I Hope everyone was paying attention, especially newer people to the mid tech/high end/custom collecting world. It can be a minefield.
Love the Z-hunter customs !!! Everyone will have its own custom problems
thank you nick
Sounds like there's a fine line between 'serious collecting' and 'obsessive addiction'. I guess it's only lack of money that keeps me out of either category. Well thought out review - thanks for posting.
Hah. That's the beautiful thing: For 99% of the world, it's not even a question. But I hate to see people feel like they're really missing out.
*Excellent* video. Many interesting and helpful designations.
While this type of art knife (as you indicated) is not something you have interest in buying, I was curious if you had ever seen any of the 'Art Knives' from Michael West? Even for custom handmade art knives, his are truly unique, using unusual materials such as long cut mammoth molar, mammoth tusk, Labradorite gemstone, ebony, etc. They are a thing of beauty and grace.
I have an (admitted) obsession with various art, particularly fine custom wood sculptures and furniture, along with paintings, and West' work I find breathtaking, though none of these are things I could ever afford. The amount of saving and crimping I had to do just to afford the ZT 0452CF was, um, humbling, haha. But DAMN I love that knife like nobodies business, and your review convinced me to get that specific one.
At any rate, if you are interested and find the time, take a look at his gallery sometime at Westknives.
And a big thanks for all of your work and effort, I have learned more from your reviews than I thought was possible, and with some added laughs to boot, and that is just a...GEM.
Great video, On the mark with your comments.
Interesting video Nick. As you know, I collect folding knives in all categories For sure, if you are looking for a practical cutting tool, large and small volume production are the way to go. Art knives or safe queens are a category all their own and have little in common with production knives if we are talking about knives as strictly tools. But I really enjoy collecting customs and there is a satisfaction to owning a hand made work of art if you will. As far as networking and camaraderie, whether we are talking about a ZT or a Ron Best, there are folks in the knife community with whom I correspond, and unlike the other gentleman, I feel no sense of "isolation" WRT collecting customs.
Sounds like you're well connected to both scenes, the production folks and the art collectors. That must really help. Glad both are a source of joy :)
Nailed it, Nick. Cheers
Having "lost" an expensive knife in the mail, I don't think I could send a neto-cool knife like the Graham Custom in the mail. Mine came from S. Africa, and disappeared at NYC postal facility, hmmmm, maybe that explains it...Good points Nick...
Hey Nick, I saw what you "sub-conciously" pointed to when you mentioned quality control issues with some productions knives. HAHAHA. Ironically, I just watched your review of that particular brand last week! Love your reviews, keep them coming, and thank you.
p.s. Can we get an AL Mar SERE & some We Knife Co. reviews soon!?!?!?
-chuck
+crmplex1 WE had one review coming, no more until they use real screws. And Al Mar falcon is in the pipe!
It all depends on the maker and what you are looking for. Some customs are made to be used. For example, Rob Saniscalchi from R.S Knifeworks makes full off customs. He has no CNC machines, nor does he rely on waterjet for his blades. He is a one man show. His prices are not crazy and you can have him build you want you want. Your build is unique to you and what you like, you can go basic or get really expensive. His warranty on his knives are, use the knife, and if you do mess it up, he will try to fix the knife, if he can't you get a brand new knife. You can take your knife down to maintain it. Granted there is a 12 month wait for his folders but to me, it's well worth it. Amazing knife maker, and awesome knives that are meant to be used.
Great video!
I always know an open source font when I see one
Hah. The title screen? That's Microgramma, actually, the bold face of the font used in 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Tools vs. Collectible Possessions
Tools vs. Collectable Tools
I think Elliot of Ferrum said it best. midtech is any knife that uses machinery but also the maker, the man who's name is synonymous with the brand has a large hands on part in the completion of the knife.
The danger of that is that many cheap knives (CRKT, for instance) are hand-ground or hand-finished. So it's more than just "human hands". And does it matter to me if the person who finished the blade is, for instance, Jon Graham, rather than his son, if Jon inspects it?
@@NickShabazz Id class any mass production knives that have a human production element as semi-production (just under mid tech and above mass production) as thats what Esee terms themselves as, as they're mass produced but have certain finishing touches like handle forming to the blade blanks actually done by humans rather then machines...same goes for bark river and there hand sharpened convex edges, that's semi production to me.
Mid tech to me personally is a semi custom, its between mass production and a one man custom... meaning the knife is typically made in small quantities and made with help from multiple people but to be mid tech in my eyes, the maker has to have some kind of hand work done during the knifes production... whether its heat treating, grinding, handle fit/finish whatever it may be... in my belief each mid tech knife should have at least one point of its production thats done solely by the maker, whom is the master knife forger... if i'm paying the premium price of a mid tech over a production knife, I at least like to think (even if its not always the case) that certain parts of production the maker does all on his own to ensure his product meets his brands standards and to me that's what bridges a mid tech between a mass production and a one man custom made knife.
To try and put it a bit more clearly, if your buying a mid tech then your buying into that specific makers brand and helping support there ability to make a living doing what they love
and well the maker is still a small enough company, making knives in small batch runs, where they have the ability to still be directly involved in the production process, I'd hope that they take the time to be involved in said production rather then passing it off to someone else whom is most likely less experienced.
Since at the end of the day, its there namesake and there brand that's on the line and in small mid tech productions the maker should be involved as much as possible because if they ever become a fully mass produced company they'd lose that ability to be so involved in production and then that mid tech you have becomes extra valuable because it was made at a time when the maker still had a direct hand in production, which just isn't possible to maintain on a large scale production, even if that extra value is only in your eyes its something slightly special and unique...which is essentially the definition of a mid tech imo
Sorry for writing a damn essay to read, just wanted to thoroughly explain my point of view as best as possible.
You know, personally, the furthest out I'd like to venture past Production is a CRK Ti-Lock.
But that's just me.
Others might opt for a true custom. Or gravitate to a true "tactical" knife that can withstand the apocalypse.
Whatever floats one's boat is a medium one should embrace wholeheartedly.
Again, for EXC practicality, I dig a Para 3. For fliptacticness, a ZT 0450. For beauty, a CRK Ti-Lock. For out and out build quality, a Slysz Bowie.
But that's just me. YMMV.
Peace.
Good video nick
Gotcha, thanks
Interesting as always Nick , and i"m sure the High End custom knife reviewers are breathing a sigh of relief that you're mostly done dabbling on their turf .
Looking at one of those CRK night sky Sebenzas. They look very "art knife" but at a really good price for that genre.
Some one examining a purchase on the secondary market would do well to consider the liquidity of the market for the knife of interest, as well. There's always the idea of relative proportional risked amount to also consider. The real interesting part is when you look at your answer to the question "What dollar amount really matters/will cause me to take notice?" Everybody has a different number/range. If $20 bucks means the world to you, there's a good likelihood buying and selling Slysz Bowies will be bad for your health. Others the $20 doesn't mean a whole lot and sell people there first Slysz Bowie way below the market because they don't care. Most are somewhere in the middle and closer to the $20 level. There is always the level of TH-cam rising star in his community who could easily claim all knife purchases as a deductible expenses against any revenues earned under the umbrella of his (or her) personal business. But that is only if you happen to be a TH-cam star.
Found the Economist! (But great point!)
Thanks and thanks for all the great videos. The economists would run me out town with torches and pitch forks, but the accountants ( which I am currently working as) actually do. Was a trader in a former career/life and market analysis is ingrained in my programing.
very well said Nick!
Its a beautiful thing!
U cost me $300 on the Slysz Bowie, solid knife. I wish the thumb space in the frame was bigger. Hurt my thumb opening it all day on Friday.
Hi! Great video for a very interesting subject. Would like to hear what category would you place DDR knives ? (not HTM of course) - I considered him in the same category as Brian Tighe making knives one at a time fully custom but recently saw a short documentary showing his entire shop run by several people - can he still be considered custom maker ?
Your opinions are yours but you're off on some things. Crk and Ferrum Forge aren't in the same category, Chris Reeve will probably not touch most of the sebenzas, he might expect acfew but thats it. FF knives have parts that are rough cut for them but Elliot and his brother do all of the work on the rest. Each blade is hand ground and might look similar to the other 99 but it'll be off. I go by Jim Skeltons definition which was taken from Ken Onion (the guy who coined midtech), there are production, midtech, custom and handmade custom categories and each one has its levels (like low end production ei cheap kershaw, crkt, certain spydercos and high end production like zt and high end benchmade and spyderco). Pimped knives are in a league of their own, sometimes the value increases and sometimes it devalues the knife.
How would you classify Olamic Cutlery?
Small volume production is where I stop. I still want to use my knives and not worry about it.
Very interesting, what bugs me in when a collector shows his knife and then go's on to say how perfect it is but then says you can't get it now because it a limited run and I "have the last one"!
Dude, that custom Razel is amazing, did someone send that in? or did you get one?
What about sprint runs? Somewhere between small volume production and modified production?
I'd just call them Small Volume. But the line between large and small is blurry, and not as crucial. The Spyderco Nirvana is made in low volumes, but by a high-volume manufacturer. And I suspect that CRK makes more Sebenzas each month than Reate makes of their higher-end models.
Nick Shabazz thanks for the reply
I always enjoy these edc philosophy type videos
I'd like to own one Smock SK23 and that would be it for me...
Not a bad place to go!
Do you have a review video for the Miura?
Not yet!
Where does Marfione Custom fit?
Hi Nick: where do you put knives like the ones made from makers like Jerry Moen or Michael Zieba ?? Thanks
Oscar Bustos Not sure about Zieba but Moens are customs with lots of hand work and slight use of smart technology but its all done in shop. That's the difference between custom and midtech (or it used to at least), midtech is made by the maker whos name is on the blade but one or more parts were sent out out of shop (like gave someone cut out your blades or scales). Custom is all made by that maker with some use of smart tech but he is the one doing it. Then theres handmade customs which are all made by hand or low tech power tools like grinder (no smart tech like cnc or water jet) and bandsaw and each part is cut out one at a time.
Holy crap, Nick. That's the first time I've ever seen that customized Reysel on your channel. Is this yours, or was it a loaner?
I might not know you perfectly well, but I see the show side and can actually hear your voice in my head saying "It looks like a kid got out of control with a hole punch and couldn't quite make it all the way through the titanium." Lmao.
Wanna learn something new about cutlery, go straight to the Nick.
Were Shiros actually only $500 three years ago?
When are you gonna review a Spyderco Chaparral
Already did! Check the channel history!
I would say medford is more to the custom side because your knife is made custom to your order
With a Sebenza you have to buy what is available you cant choose anything to be custom made for you
Knox yeah but u can buy a pry bar and just take it 2 a grinder and get the same custom knife
+Knox Yes, you can. CRK offers unique graphics and a very limited "build to order". but those lines are a bit blurry.
Also, Medford appears to do the "Customized Production" approach. Many Marauders made, but each one might be tweaked to be a bit different. I'm not aware of any one-off customs from Medford that aren't modifications to existing production knives. But maybe I'm wrong. And remember, "less custom" does not mean worse. :)
Nice points here Nick , I recently started getting into Fountain Pens, have you any knowledge on the subject ?
I've got some opinions, but little knowledge. Check my pen review video list, then check Goulet pens.
Nick Shabazz Oh , I didn't know you had a vid. On fountain pens..... I'll check it, thanks
Is cold steel not on the large volume production section cause you don't like them?
+Joshua Gonzales No, because I forgot them! Neither is Lionsteel, or Opinel, or a bunch of others.
Nick Shabazz Tru tru
Nick Shabazz hey have you checked out the walking reviews channel here on TH-cam? he's got some really nice stuff on the high end, as well as some on the low.
Everyone strives for the achievement of reaching "custom"
How about, let's say, "True Custom", where the knife was made to the customer's specific specs, materials and grinds? Where would that fit in there?
+Luís Silva One off usually.
Hard pill to swallow but youre right
If the Grimsmo brothers ever make a smaller knife, ill break my wallet for it. To support a Canadian company that's family run would be awesome. And after watching their TH-cam videos I really want one even though it'll kill my bank XD Oh Canada eh
Tall Hobbit they already did. It's called the Rask.
Isnt the Rask 8.1"? that's not very small haha I was thinking under 7"
The most expensive knife I have is a Halo 6 from 2018.
When you pointed to benchmade. Lol savage
3:47 it's called anodization buddy it looks good when it's done to titanium or aluminum
Next season on MTV's "Pimp My Knife"... LoL
Yo Dawg: I heard you like recurves, so we put a recurve in your recurve, and now you've got a Kris.
Nick Shabazz 🤣
This is the only time Benchmade is in the same class as Z-Hunter
what's the difference between worthless and priceless?
nothing.
I'd say the difference is 5 letters lol ... but your point is valid
Hello Nick have you ever done business with midtechknives.com?
hey nick, with all the fake stuff going around could you do a video on how to tell a fake model from a real model. things to look for...i know you're very familiar with spyderco, maybe you can start with them.
That's tough, because it's very hard to keep ahead of the curve. If I identify 6 "tells", the fakers will address them. The best approach is to buy from trusted sellers only!
i usually stick to blade hq,but ebay has some tasty deals every once in awhile too and from what ive seen you cant fully trust amazon either. guess if its to good to be true its probably not....
eBay is dangerous as heck. I don't send people there ever. A good deal there is unlikely to be a good deal, unless it's from a very well respected seller or on something that just released last week (which hasn't been faked yet).
well im new to the whole knife world and have a lot to learn. i understand the whole clone thing and its a different story when a knife company borrows some design ques (im looking at you Ganzo), but a blatant rip off that tries to claim that its the original just pisses me off. Maybe you can suggest some reputable places to find a legitimate good deal.i sure would like to know where some of these youtubers pick up a $30 tenacious or $50 delica...
BladeForums or Reddit's Knife_Swap. People who are selling a used knife do so below retail. Buy from a known, good seller and you'll be good to go.
ahh who needs food or rent
The True Of The Matter Is That The Average Joe Doesn't Give A Shit What Brand Of Knife Your Carrying.
Why the fuck would you want a knife that looks like a pry bar?