We use Perkins on some of our gen sets, and don't even have the electric hooked up to em. Haha , last winter i had one where the block heater went out, and I wanted to run it up after I replaced it. It was 15f/-9c outside. So no problem, I busted out my starter button and let it heat a few seconds before cranking. She wasn't happy but she lit off after a while. I did a vid on my channel of it, but I'm surprised at how many diesel guys have never seen these things!!!
Just to add to the diagnostics, obviously if the thermostart fails to light, check the electrical connections. In particular on marine engines beware of stripped threads on the insulator bush that screws it into the manifold and clamps the return contact. It is easily overtightened then loses its grip. After-market replacements are available though.
That takes me back a while,I put a Perkins 4-108 into a Commer PB van that had been converted into a caravanette,the 1725cc petrol engine that was fitted wouldn’t pull your socks up and was horrendous on fuel. I purchased a scrap PB van that had the Perkins in and overhauled the engine and fitted it to my vehicle and then fitted an overdrive gearbox out of a Humber Scepter after carrying out a few modifications to make it fit. That engine Never Failed to start even in the coldest winters by using that system that is shown on here,I did however use a button switch to operate the cold start device,ten seconds on the button and away she went. We went all over the country in that van,it pulled like a train and did 45mpg and would do 70 miles per hour if required,it showed those underpowered Beetle ones how to climb hills without even getting a sweat on. Did thousands of miles in it without any problems and people were beating my door down when I advertised it for sale with it being Diesel.
Thanks for showing. I think I have a blockage somewhere. That’s an awesome video. I didn’t really understand how that thing worked. Where would the vent be at? Is it on top of that little canister that collects the fuel I guess from the return rail? I do hear the pop after probably 30 seconds by reading some of your following comments I noticed that once you hear the pipe that means the flames started and you start about 10 seconds later I never realized that I was just hitting the starter once I heard the pipe so I’ve been doing it wrong apparently.?
The valve is built into the thermostart. As the coil heats up to glow red hot that heat opens the valve in the body of the thermostart and allows the fuel to flow, After engine start the inrush of air cools the thermostart down and the valve automatically closes
You can use them for either as the manifolds have no pressure in them until the engine starts. Just make sure whatever manifold you put them in is a METAL manifold....
I habe a 4108 Perkins engine in my tractor. Is it correct that the eletricity suply ist cut of during starting the engine. I mean i start preheating and after the floppp i start the engine and there is no glowing Düring the startinprocess. Is the wiring correct this way? Greetings from Germany Leines
The inrush of air when starting blows out the flame anyway....so yes, it goes out during the engine turning over...but before that it has heated the air in the inlet manifold...so the tractor starts...How long after the flopp (ignition of the flame) do you keep the flame going (30 seconds) before trying to start?
Gravity feed from that small reservoir. The reservoir is itself filled by the spill from the return line from the injectors...it doesn't need much to keep it up to level...
What size is the outlet nozzle and the lines? I want to build something for my E300D because the intake manifold is stuck on making servicing the glow plugs impossible. Also where can I find such a heating element?
@@Peugot905 Assuming you live in USA: sheffieldtractor.com/about-us/ sheffieldtractor.com/heater-plug-diesel-thermostart-2666108-perkins-engine-3-152-4-203-4-212-4-236-4-248-6-354/ The lines need to match up to the inlet on the thermostart; ditto lines to reservoir;
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk thanks a lot, from what I see the fuel line is simply hooked to the rear the element and gravity takes care of the fuel feed correct? Is there a way I can add in a valve to control flow?
Take it out, Make sure all the tubes providing fuel are still attached provide an earth from the body of the thermostart to the engine... and press the button. You should see te flame if the valve is working. Otherwise replace...
These things never ever work and even when you rule out any problems they still don't work, Perkins are good engines but conventional heater plugs are much better.
Never had a problem with the flame heaters, although most Perkins diesels will start fine without heat anyway. Pretty much the only indirect injected engines that will. I've had em fire up at -5 deg C without an issue and no cold start 😮
Thank you for the video. I have a Perkins NA 4 cylinder boat anchor and is a pain to start. I will now test and inspect my heater and possibly run an auxiliary circuit to activate the heater before the starter circuit does.
I got a 4.203 in a LR and I just count down from 30, hear a pop around 15 and start at zero. 90% successful start. Second time always. I also tried carb cleaner in freezing in frustration when battery was low. Not a recommended repeatable experience as too hard on the fire generated. You just need a warm manifold.
Is the yellow line on the reservoir a feed from the fuel tank? Is there a pump, or is it just gravity feed? Does the glow plug have an internal valve that lets fuel flow when the glow plug is activated?
That "reservoir" is filled by the "overflow" from each injector..the "excess" say when you decelerate the engine e.g. going down hill, shut the throttle, injector "leaks off" excess fuel, just a few drops...which go to that small reservoir. When starting from cold, you turn the ignition key to "thermostart" position or turn the key to "run" position and press a separate button, 12 volt starts to heat up that coil..inside the coil is a valve activated by heat..diesel flows out and ignites. About 10 seconds after the first "pop" of the diesel igniting you activate the starter while still holding the button down...when the engine starts, release the button and the airflow cools the coil and shuts off the diesel flow. Job done.
Tony, I'm a new boat owner with a Perkins 4108 engine. It's hit a couple of snags with blocked water cooling feed and overheating. When I went to start her up again, I noticed a large flame licking up out of the air intake (the previous owner changed the mushroom cap for a fabric conical one!). My question is - is this flame normal as it is in the above video? Does a Perkins 4108 warm the air with a flame or is there a serious issue? Thank you - please keep posting, videos like yours will be invaluable to a newby such as myself.
Hopefully by now you will have found that the previous owner made a huge mistake putting a fabric air filter on a marine engine. The lack of dust in a marine environment means you should have only a "rock catcher" made of stainless steel mesh in the intake just to stop large objects form being ingested by the engine. With a thermostart and it's naked flame, doubly so!
The manual of this engine says that the cold starting aid should not be used for too long before starting the engine, because it could damage both the cold starting aid and the induction manifold. So, the cold starting aid should only be started as the started motor is started.
@@RakTheGoose That stuff (ether or starting fluid) shouldn't be used at all. It breaks rings from the much more violent explosion in the combustion chamber than the burning of diesel or another oil. You can use WD40, which is largely kerosene..as a test to see if the engine starts with the spray but the injection/fuel system is not working properly...but the engine obviously has problems that require fixing with better solutions...like a thermostart!
Tony, I'm a new boat owner with a Perkins 4108 engine. It's hit a couple of snags with blocked water cooling feed and overheating. When I went to start her up again, I noticed a large flame licking up out of the air intake (the previous owner changed the mushroom cap for a fabric conical one!). My question is - is this flame normal as it is in the above video? Does a Perkins 4108 warm the air with a flame or is there a serious issue? Thank you - please keep posting, videos like yours will be invaluable to a newby such as myself.
That is one HELLACIOUS glow plug system. I had Mercedes 240D, and also Isuzu I-Mark 1.8 liter 4 cylinder diesel. BOTH had so many damned problems with the glow timers and glow plugs in general I sold 'em after I couldn't bear the frustration, and AFTER I converted the glow plugs to manual switching, no timers. The I-Mark was a sweet little car that hauled ass for being so tiny and diesel powered, a one of a kind little car that I hated selling.....but F**K glow plugs and "indirect Injection" technology. If people want a quiet engine, they should buy gasoline!
Indirect injection in diesels wasn't developed for noise so much as it was for simplicity in terms of injectors and less toleranced engines. Yes it's wikipedia but it's a comprehensive article (in Diesel engines: Overview): en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_injection
In contrast I have a 1991 Nissan 2.7TD that still operates on all it's original glow plugs...and timers. It also has a computer control to alternately glow the plugs until the coolant reaches 50 degrees C....
A switched (push button) 12 volt supply run of the ignition key (just so if there is a fault you don't drain the battery and set fire to the tractor!).
I’ve got a primer bulb added to mine to add pressure but currently on mine it will like spit a little flame and stop but continue to produce heat and smoke but no flame ?? The fuel is coming from a little separate tank off about 200ml it’s fitted to the air intake on a Perkins 3-152 in a boat. It looks like the manifold of made of aluminum and is quite small then there’s a thick gasket to join it to the block I’m wandering if it’s not getting enough of a ground/ earth what do you think ? Regards George
@@georgemarriette7409 The fuel supply needs to flow freely, the size of the tubing needs to be adequate as does the "head" i.e. the height of the reservoir above the thermostart to allow gravity to help the fuel flow. Don't add a fuel pump as when something goes wrong you will hydraulic the engine. Just get the reservoir up higher than the thermostart and make the fuel line a reasonable internal diameter.
@@teenaramsay2469 is there anyway I can show you my set up as I live on an island with limited people and knowledge about the thermostart and this is really helping me out regards George
@@georgemarriette7409 Watch this video. He explains everything and at the end shows you the reservoir and the height above the thermostart. th-cam.com/video/NeDvCVS38hk/w-d-xo.html
![3.9 Perkins 4-cyl Dry Sleeve Engine Rebuild | Massey Ferguson 270 [EP2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Kj5e-N3weJE/mqdefault.jpg)
We use Perkins on some of our gen sets, and don't even have the electric hooked up to em.
Haha , last winter i had one where the block heater went out, and I wanted to run it up after I replaced it.
It was 15f/-9c outside.
So no problem, I busted out my starter button and let it heat a few seconds before cranking.
She wasn't happy but she lit off after a while.
I did a vid on my channel of it, but I'm surprised at how many diesel guys have never seen these things!!!
Just to add to the diagnostics, obviously if the thermostart fails to light, check the electrical connections. In particular on marine engines beware of stripped threads on the insulator bush that screws it into the manifold and clamps the return contact. It is easily overtightened then loses its grip. After-market replacements are available though.
That takes me back a while,I put a Perkins 4-108 into a Commer PB van that had been converted into a caravanette,the 1725cc petrol engine that was fitted wouldn’t pull your socks up and was horrendous on fuel. I purchased a scrap PB van that had the Perkins in and overhauled the engine and fitted it to my vehicle and then fitted an overdrive gearbox out of a Humber Scepter after carrying out a few modifications to make it fit. That engine Never Failed to start even in the coldest winters by using that system that is shown on here,I did however use a button switch to operate the cold start device,ten seconds on the button and away she went. We went all over the country in that van,it pulled like a train and did 45mpg and would do 70 miles per hour if required,it showed those underpowered Beetle ones how to climb hills without even getting a sweat on. Did thousands of miles in it without any problems and people were beating my door down when I advertised it for sale with it being Diesel.
Thanks for showing. I think I have a blockage somewhere. That’s an awesome video. I didn’t really understand how that thing worked. Where would the vent be at? Is it on top of that little canister that collects the fuel I guess from the return rail? I do hear the pop after probably 30 seconds by reading some of your following comments I noticed that once you hear the pipe that means the flames started and you start about 10 seconds later I never realized that I was just hitting the starter once I heard the pipe so I’ve been doing it wrong apparently.?
Arriba el viejo Perkins jaaajjaaa,,, me crie arriba d esos nobles motores!! Salds desde Uruguay
Just fitted one to a Yanmar direct injection 👍
Did it improve the rapidity of the starting?
Does this heater stop fuel by itself? Or there is some kind of valve to stop fuel from going after engine is started?
there is a valve
The valve is built into the thermostart.
As the coil heats up to glow red hot that heat opens the valve in the body of the thermostart and allows the fuel to flow,
After engine start the inrush of air cools the thermostart down and the valve automatically closes
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk Thanks
Are these suitable for turbo engines that have pressure in the manifold? I dont know anything about perkins. Are they N/A or turbo?
You can use them for either as the manifolds have no pressure in them until the engine starts.
Just make sure whatever manifold you put them in is a METAL manifold....
I habe a 4108 Perkins engine in my tractor. Is it correct that the eletricity suply ist cut of during starting the engine. I mean i start preheating and after the floppp i start the engine and there is no glowing Düring the startinprocess. Is the wiring correct this way?
Greetings from Germany
Leines
The inrush of air when starting blows out the flame anyway....so yes, it goes out during the engine turning over...but before that it has heated the air in the inlet manifold...so the tractor starts...How long after the flopp (ignition of the flame) do you keep the flame going (30 seconds) before trying to start?
Hi awesome vid. one question what P.S.I. Is feed to thermostarter ?
Gravity feed from that small reservoir.
The reservoir is itself filled by the spill from the return line from the injectors...it doesn't need much to keep it up to level...
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk thank you
What size is the outlet nozzle and the lines? I want to build something for my E300D because the intake manifold is stuck on making servicing the glow plugs impossible.
Also where can I find such a heating element?
@@Peugot905 Assuming you live in USA:
sheffieldtractor.com/about-us/
sheffieldtractor.com/heater-plug-diesel-thermostart-2666108-perkins-engine-3-152-4-203-4-212-4-236-4-248-6-354/
The lines need to match up to the inlet on the thermostart; ditto lines to reservoir;
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk thanks a lot, from what I see the fuel line is simply hooked to the rear the element and gravity takes care of the fuel feed correct?
Is there a way I can add in a valve to control flow?
Qwantuz hp?
I don’t think the thermostart is working on my 1998 MF231
Take it out,
Make sure all the tubes providing fuel are still attached
provide an earth from the body of the thermostart to the engine...
and press the button.
You should see te flame if the valve is working.
Otherwise replace...
Opa
These things never ever work and even when you rule out any problems they still don't work, Perkins are good engines but conventional heater plugs are much better.
Never had a problem with the flame heaters, although most Perkins diesels will start fine without heat anyway. Pretty much the only indirect injected engines that will. I've had em fire up at -5 deg C without an issue and no cold start 😮
@@jasonalvarez5840 generally they will start without heat but just have never come across a perkins flare heater that did anything
@@jackfagg5753
If you don't make sure they are maintained and don't ensure they work of course they won't do anything.
Thank you for the video. I have a Perkins NA 4 cylinder boat anchor and is a pain to start. I will now test and inspect my heater and possibly run an auxiliary circuit to activate the heater before the starter circuit does.
You can use a gas torch or any external source of flame to start it
How did your checking of the thermostart on your Perkins NA4 go?
I got a 4.203 in a LR and I just count down from 30, hear a pop around 15 and start at zero. 90% successful start. Second time always. I also tried carb cleaner in freezing in frustration when battery was low. Not a recommended repeatable experience as too hard on the fire generated. You just need a warm manifold.
thanks bro just what I needed to know I was able to get the old girl going again 😄
Is the yellow line on the reservoir a feed from the fuel tank? Is there a pump, or is it just gravity feed? Does the glow plug have an internal valve that lets fuel flow when the glow plug is activated?
That "reservoir" is filled by the "overflow" from each injector..the "excess" say when you decelerate the engine e.g. going down hill, shut the throttle, injector "leaks off" excess fuel, just a few drops...which go to that small reservoir. When starting from cold, you turn the ignition key to "thermostart" position or turn the key to "run" position and press a separate button, 12 volt starts to heat up that coil..inside the coil is a valve activated by heat..diesel flows out and ignites. About 10 seconds after the first "pop" of the diesel igniting you activate the starter while still holding the button down...when the engine starts, release the button and the airflow cools the coil and shuts off the diesel flow. Job done.
Tony, I'm a new boat owner with a Perkins 4108 engine. It's hit a couple of snags with blocked water cooling feed and overheating. When I went to start her up again, I noticed a large flame licking up out of the air intake (the previous owner changed the mushroom cap for a fabric conical one!). My question is - is this flame normal as it is in the above video? Does a Perkins 4108 warm the air with a flame or is there a serious issue? Thank you - please keep posting, videos like yours will be invaluable to a newby such as myself.
Hopefully by now you will have found that the previous owner made a huge mistake putting a fabric air filter on a marine engine. The lack of dust in a marine environment means you should have only a "rock catcher" made of stainless steel mesh in the intake just to stop large objects form being ingested by the engine. With a thermostart and it's naked flame, doubly so!
The manual of this engine says that the cold starting aid should not be used for too long before starting the engine, because it could damage both the cold starting aid and the induction manifold.
So, the cold starting aid should only be started as the started motor is started.
by cold starting aid they mean like ether or starter fluid.
@@RakTheGoose That stuff (ether or starting fluid) shouldn't be used at all. It breaks rings from the much more violent explosion in the combustion chamber than the burning of diesel or another oil.
You can use WD40, which is largely kerosene..as a test to see if the engine starts with the spray but the injection/fuel system is not working properly...but the engine obviously has problems that require fixing with better solutions...like a thermostart!
Tony, I'm a new boat owner with a Perkins 4108 engine. It's hit a couple of snags with blocked water cooling feed and overheating. When I went to start her up again, I noticed a large flame licking up out of the air intake (the previous owner changed the mushroom cap for a fabric conical one!). My question is - is this flame normal as it is in the above video? Does a Perkins 4108 warm the air with a flame or is there a serious issue? Thank you - please keep posting, videos like yours will be invaluable to a newby such as myself.
It warms the air and helps the engine start
That is one HELLACIOUS glow plug system. I had Mercedes 240D, and also Isuzu I-Mark 1.8 liter 4 cylinder diesel. BOTH had so many damned problems with the glow timers and glow plugs in general I sold 'em after I couldn't bear the frustration, and AFTER I converted the glow plugs to manual switching, no timers. The I-Mark was a sweet little car that hauled ass for being so tiny and diesel powered, a one of a kind little car that I hated selling.....but F**K glow plugs and "indirect Injection" technology. If people want a quiet engine, they should buy gasoline!
Indirect injection in diesels wasn't developed for noise so much as it was for simplicity in terms of injectors and less toleranced engines. Yes it's wikipedia but it's a comprehensive article (in Diesel engines: Overview): en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_injection
In contrast I have a 1991 Nissan 2.7TD that still operates on all it's original glow plugs...and timers.
It also has a computer control to alternately glow the plugs until the coolant reaches 50 degrees C....
What does that yellow wire go to? I'm trying to hook mine up but I got it with no thermostart
A switched (push button) 12 volt supply run of the ignition key (just so if there is a fault you don't drain the battery and set fire to the tractor!).
is this just gravity feed fuel to the flame heater or is there an extra electric low pressure pump to deliver fuel to the flame heater?
Gravity only. No need for pressure.
I’ve got a primer bulb added to mine to add pressure but currently on mine it will like spit a little flame and stop but continue to produce heat and smoke but no flame ?? The fuel is coming from a little separate tank off about 200ml it’s fitted to the air intake on a Perkins 3-152 in a boat. It looks like the manifold of made of aluminum and is quite small then there’s a thick gasket to join it to the block I’m wandering if it’s not getting enough of a ground/ earth what do you think ? Regards George
@@georgemarriette7409 The fuel supply needs to flow freely, the size of the tubing needs to be adequate as does the "head" i.e. the height of the reservoir above the thermostart to allow gravity to help the fuel flow. Don't add a fuel pump as when something goes wrong you will hydraulic the engine. Just get the reservoir up higher than the thermostart and make the fuel line a reasonable internal diameter.
@@teenaramsay2469 is there anyway I can show you my set up as I live on an island with limited people and knowledge about the thermostart and this is really helping me out regards George
@@georgemarriette7409 Watch this video. He explains everything and at the end shows you the reservoir and the height above the thermostart. th-cam.com/video/NeDvCVS38hk/w-d-xo.html