ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- It seems everyone is worried about the RTV issue on the 2022 GR86 & BRZ! Well lets drop the oil pan on our GR86 and see what we can find! I assure you, we have more problems than just RTV 😅
Oil Pan Separator Tool: www.amazon.com...
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Please document the process as you disassemble the engine. You're the first one that will take apart the engine and everyone is dying to know what changes / improvements they made to the fa24 over the other fa engines and the fa20. It would be great content too
I doubt he's the first one to take one apart...
@@sepg5084 yet they dont exist, so we need to know
They are absolutely trash to take apart compared to the FA20. It’s gone from Japanese philosophy to BMWs.
@@avery4528 what? This is not a Supra! It’s a Subaru (Japanese brand) made in Japan. No BMW here!
@@bofat6978 You have to split the engine into two halves to rebuilt it, like something you'd find in a BMW. Not usually something you'd find in a Toyota or Subaru.
I'm using thicker oil (slight overfill) + larger pick-up tube for better oil pressure + baffles with flaps/doors. Over 30 track days revving 7800RPM, never has a problem, it is very fast with mods.
I have a few questions what viscosity are you using and what larger pickup?? I haven’t had anything happen but i am paranoid abt it
@@mr.scrunches6303 0W-40 and the pickup tube is by Killer B, I'm not sure they have developed it for the new model yet.
No problems with the Killer b strainer or baffle?
@@ItsAlexAndKramar I got the Bluemoon baffle with rubber flap doors. No problems with the new Killer B pickup, the part is well made.
I appreciate the reply🙏I got a 22 brz, gonna drop the oil pan to check for rtv, might as well upgrade the pickup and baffle while im at it
A moment of silence for the 86 😔🙏🏻 hopefully we see it back up running soon
Well, if I decide to get back into tracking/autocross on a regular basis I'm thinking an ND Miata (again). Good video, thanks for all the detail and no BS presentation.
Foster was killin' it on his WRX; but now, Kevin is going to be killin' it w/this rebuild saga.......sorry to hear, but on the bright side, it is now the perfect time to balance and blueprint the engine (and address other short-comings of the FA24). Plenty of ppl seem to build short/long blocks, so this should be no different. all of the parts are out there. address the weak areas and you are golden; pick up where Subaru left off....good luck.
What is the difference between a short and a long block?
Short block is bottom end only. Crank, pistons, block. Long block is that plus the heads fully assembled
That oil pan is looking like a year's salary for an 1800's gold panner, damn that sucks, hope it gets back on the road soon!
looking forward to an engine build series. Don't think I've seen anyone do the new engine
Its starting to look like all the blown engines are caused by money shifts. The RTV in the pickups is just a coincidence. Im not saying the RTV cant be *A* problem. But I do not think it is *THE* problem.
IMPORTANT: You must remove the Front Pipe from the over pipe in order to give enough room for the header to be removed and put back. Otherwise you will spend hours trying to angle the headers in place with the over pipe in the way...
I've been seeing nothing but *my 86 blew up, or gr86 is in the shop, like damn, making me wanna think twice about a 86.
It does suck that the fa24 died. Please tear the engine down, and check a few things. See what type of valve springs they have used, and if they added retainers. How many oil ports to the crank. The fa20 had three ports for four bearings. I really hope they changed this one to have four ports for four bearings. Would be awesome to see what they changed if anything. It has been what has kept me from trying to buy one. If this one has addressed a lot of the fa20 issues I would actually try to get one. If they, didn't motor swap time on my first gen.
Also look at how much excess RTV is on the camshaft carriers. My understanding is that most RTV that gets to the oil pickup tube comes from there, not from the oil pan seal as most seem to think.
I wanted to swap the fa24 in my kouki first Gen. I don't know now. I've been hearing horror stories about blown motors since day one and issues with oil pressure drops on right corners. If they solve the oil pressure problem I will get a fa24 motor to swap in my 86.
Sorry to hear about the money shift and thank you for the video. The amount of RTV found in the pick up is negligible and will not cause any issues. Mind sharing the build date and the mileage of the car? Thanks.
Ok
I am holding off on getting a BRZ cause I am waiting what will come out of this whole rtv thing. That said, I am starting to feel it is being blown out of proportion. It seems that only a very select hard driven cars had an issue and nothing points 100% to the rtv in the oil pick up to have caused it.
@@deniscdyck just had a local gr86 blow up less than 3k miles
edit: it was used as a daily
@@rawrbrz yeah, let's wait these cars hit 2-3 years of use and see. If a daily blew up that's a whole different thing than track ones.
@@deniscdyck these cars are designed for track use. The previous gen 86 would very seldom break when used on track even though it has no oil radiator. It doesn't matter whether it's the RTV or not, those engines shouldn't break like this when used on track. Something is wrong.
I do sometimes find it a bit tricky to remember which gear I'm in with this for some reason, which is a problem I haven't had before on various other cars and big rigs. I could definitely understand how it could be money shifted into oblivion on track when your RPMs are quite high.
On another note I think the RTV issue was basically a non-factor on this car. Maybe it might have made a difference in terms of oil pressure on track, but the root cause of most of these widely publicized engine failures seems to be oil starvation plain and simple (the sump runs dry under hard driving conditions due to a design flaw), which would be the case regardless of whether there was any RTV in the pickup or not.
people say it’s just subie owners that give the cars reliability a bad wrap but i feel like honda and toyotas can handle the same abuse without breaking or even blowing up
Not the 1.5 turbo from honda, it will blow up catastrophically
Still waiting on my BRZ come this December. I've only seen/heard the engine failures and RTV issues towards the GR86 despite being manufactured all the same. Time will tell.
Its just a numbers thing - i think there are ~3 GR86s built for every BRZ
Curious to see what failed.. also even more curious to see how stout the piston and rods are once it's all apart
Oh man, moneyshift 😩 Good to see hardly any rtv. How many miles did you have on this one before it died?
It definitely sucks but hey now it’s time to slap some Manley rods and piston get that bottom end right.
Whoa whoa!!!! Sooo if I were money shift on the street does that void your warranty as well??!!?!??!?!!????!!!???
I’m gonna ask the dealership tomorrow.
Be warned when removing the headers. The edges of the heat shielding are EXTREMELY sharp and will cut you very badly if you are not careful, and yes I'm talking from experience! It hurts like a bitch and bleeds everywhere!
try buying some mechanix gloves they are relatively inexpensive and definitely worth it, theyve saved me quite alot!
@@no1washerezz Yes have now but didn't have any then.. You learn very quickly from pain!
I got cut on one of my heat shields in my sti so bad it went deeper than my tattoo.
Subaru engine.
PR department made this car into a formula 1 but it’s just a main stream vehicle that should t be abused on the track.
The rtv being there is actually a design flaw and i think soon we can expect recalls on the engines to fix the pick up design or revert back to the previous generation pick up. Pvs parramatta in sydney Australia have a video where they pull the oil pan to test fit aftermarket baffle plates and they inspected the pick up and saw some of it in there. Their motor wasn’t blown and was running
Previous gen oil pickup is worse. Less service area and easier to clog.
Previous gen pickup tube was worse. It was flat and 1 sided. Previous gen actually had the same issue. This time around the filter is 5 sided. You get more oil flow even with the excess rtv. This issue has been blown out of proportion.
@@zenkijoe9022 ahh i see didn’t know previous gen wasn’t as good
@@blytzace think of the new pickup tube filter like an upside down cup except rectangular/square with 5 sides (4 sides 1 top). The rtv issue is not a design flaw but a factory error where the robot applying the rtv applied too much.
There's barely any RTV in this one. It's a completely inconsequential amount... nothing like some of the photos that have been posted online where large amounts have been found blocking almost an entire side of the pickup.
Thanks for the video. It's tough to do with the motor in the car instead of upside-down on a stand, but the RTV should be applied to the block, not the pan (might be same same in practice though).
According to the repair manual, it shows it applied to the pan. Shouldn't really matter.
The pan has grooves for the sealant, the block does not. Easier to apply correctly when you put it in the groove.
How bad was the money shift? I’ve done it before but didn’t do anything. I’m imagining it was a 5th to 2nd gear at max rpm on 5th
The new car is supposed to be better but it's more prone to engine failure. It has serious oil pressure drops on hard right cornerings while on the track. This leads to damaged bearings and rods. There are many theories about why this is happening... oil pick up design. Oil pan design. Etc...but no one has figured it out thus far.
It's frustrating to see. Toyota should've noticed this during testing. The aftermarket hasn't figured out a way to fix this issue via any oil pan baffles either sadly
@@AnthonyTrifoglio you know it's bad when the aftermarket can't fix it. Toyota just recalled 8k cars because the tail lights stop working when the sun is beaming on them. Yet they haven't recalled the cars for the engines. Smdh
@@kamargee9680 Aftermarket wasn't able to fix it because it was so new and things take time. There's something in the works right now that has shown to work, not showing any unusual pressure drops during hard right turns on a track. The channel "900BRZ" is doing the testing.
@@hhaste thank you. I will check them out. I have the kouki first gen. 2017 86. I wanted the new motor but not after seeing that
Whoa, are the metal shavings due to the money shift?
Kevin taking off an exhaust and not putting on a different aftermarket one? What happened man...you've changed...
His exhaust addiction could only last so long.
Whelp. That hurts. Seems to becoming that norm with the new generation, as have heard more than a handful of blown engines due to excessive RTV, and Toyota /Subaru seems to be denying fault on many of them. What a shame. I'm glad you have the ability to just rebuild the motor yourself, like what I had to do with mine, but other people are not so mechanically inclined with the ability or resources to do so. Sucks man, but excited to see what comes from it.
As an ex master mechanic you should be making videos for the Subaru Dealerships. Sorry about the car though. Pulling engines is never fun. 🥺
Gotta do what you gotta do!
Sorry to hear that man, what's the build date of the blue GR86? Doesn't have any excess RTV, you could tell from the outside there's not any beads squeezed out
Purepower lifetime oil filters have magnets that will trap the metal shavings. Expensive around 250 bucks but it is a lifetime filter.
Thats approximately 27 regular oil filters, thats like 137k miles... ballpark
@@Carlos.Rivera did you see the metal shavings. pp filters may be the best OF. I purchased an extra element for about 100 bucks total is 325 usd.
Thank you for doing this. That sucks about the car. I am not going to worry about the RTV thing. After talking to few Master tech friends they said don't worry about it.
Where does the metal come from?
Seems like a you should have brought it back to the dealership being it’s still under factory warranty unless you voided that with mods🤷♀️
We did bring it in to the dealership to see if they would cover it. They confirmed it was driver error.
I tracked my 86 on Saturday and while I did not money shift it, I did miss parking it in a gear and spiked the rpm to about 7.5K. Close call!
Not a fun feeling, glad everything is okay!
Why not replace RTV with an actual gasket??
I don’t think they make them for that oil pan but I’m not sure
EDIT: it’s probably cheaper to use RTV because then they don’t have to pay for the special manufacturing tools to make different gaskets since they each likely require a mold or something like that. Easier to just use liquid RTV for everything. But obviously if it isn’t installed correctly it causes issues, so, I’d rather just use a gasket too lol
Thank you for the schematics and technical details!
Those RTV pieces are more black in color. The RTV around the oil pan is grey, isn't it? If so you have RTV coming from somewhere else that's getting in the pick up tube, correct? Thanks again for the vid. All this RTV stuff is ALMOST making me think of cancelling my GR 86 that's on the truck supposedly as I type this, heading towards the dealership.
Check out Kevin's explanation video: th-cam.com/video/3pFDNCK9rYU/w-d-xo.html
RTV is used in multiple locations in this engine so it could come from different sources.
Do not cancel it. There’s a massive amount of unnecessary fear porn going around about the rtv issue. It’s 5 sided screen inside the pickup line. Like an upside down cup but square. Only one side the top side is getting covered in rtv if any. The issue does not hinder oil flow or pressure. This video was mostly about an engine that blew due to money shifting it. It’s videos like these that confuse and scare people. Engines are not blowing up left and right. The ones that did were heavily tracked and not taken care of properly. Always check your oil levels when taking a car to a track no matter how new the car is or how recently you changed your oil.
the oil pan is way too stubborn for me to remove, even with the tool
mooo money moo money, Money Shift it BABY !!!
I livin in austria and i order that car for me and it will comes in 2023... should i be afraid that happens to me too ? ...
Hopefully will be addressed by then, but shouldn't hurt to check!
Where did these iron metal shaveing come from?
I've droven gr86 since May 2022. But i haven't check my oil pan yet. should i remove the RTV as soon as possible..? I drove over 40,000km so far
It’s interesting that the bmw build turbo inline 6 Toyota is more reliable then the jdm Subaru build naturally aspirated gr86.
Does insurance not cover damages from a bad money shift?
Maybe if it “happened on the street.”
Bad news FA engine blew up
Good news, it will het K swap
Gross, K Swap
so is this problem only on 2022 models? im looking for an 2023 to buy and got no clue if i should do it.. :-/
Can someone explain what a money shift is?
Look it up
Was it because of the money shift that there is so much metal in the pan?
Yes. That was a human error and has nothing to do with the rtv.
Yes, the metal found in the oil and pickup are from the moneyshift.
Many are reporting cylinder 1 failure. Bad oil galley? Oil viscosity issues?
As a GR86 owner since May 2022, I really hope Toyota will announce a recall ASAP. I will be participating in the NASA track in November, and now I am concerned about engine failure during the track at any given time.
Toyota has stated that driving the car at their complimentary NASA HPDE even will not "void the warranty". So long as you don't damage the car yourself.
Wow where is this Nasa track ca!? Lol I’ve been wanting to go to a track lol
I drive a 2019 86 dragged raced it to Las Vegas in the desert heat I was running penzoil ultra platinum. Topped off coolant but had nothing wrong probably different engine it’s crazy was hoping to get a Gr but all these blown engines especially what happened in orange ca down the street where I live. I just need to wait lol idk
Sorry but I don't think RTV is the cause of this blow up engine at all.... The little pieces of RTV can be also produce because all this metals pieces flowing around like little sharp blades. In any case I think that RTV issues in the GR86 are getting bigger than what they really are because all this videos around, and people is just geting scared even to buy this amazing car! Come'n guys, there is no any brand or model car free of problems reported on youtube and many times problems are not related to the car, are related to the way owners care about their cars.
He said 30 seconds in that it's a driver's error money shift. Nothing to with RTV or oil starvation. Any engine would die from a money shift.
Maybe the track days we’re not a good idea😂
Toyota corporate has been replacing these engines even with video proof that you blew it up at the track
Yikes, RTV is the least of your concerns
Could be worse. Could've put it into a wall 😅
I wonder if the New Z's will blow up constantly?????
Thank you for sharing this.
You should do a two-stroke Briggs & Stratton swap on it!
*CHEAPER*
Are the shavings cause of the money shift?
Yes
殘膠阻塞濾網，導致潤滑不足，機件運作時鐵屑因此產生，最終堵住機油通道，引擎故障。
Is the GR 86 a bad buy ? After watching this …I’m not sure now to buy … (I myself )would only use this as a daily driver.
It will be fine as a daily, but if you plan on tracking it, overfill oil by 1/2 a quart, and keep your eyes peeled for the multiple small TH-cam channels that are testing different oil pan baffles in an attempt to reduce if not eliminate the oil pressure drips that occur during aggressive right turns
Yeah this seems pretty difficult for a normie like me. Really hoping Toyota does the right thing and announces a recall and then hopefully the technicians don't screw up the car even further. Edit: even better if Toyota gives us the option of having the GR86 repaired at a Subaru dealership
A recall for a money shift?
@@TheBTRGarage I think he thinks it’s similar to silicon situation
While oil starvation can cause this, A money shift was what caused FTSpeeds motor to granade itself
@@TheBTRGarage RTV...
How many miles were on the car?
One moneyshift and the engine blew?
Hi, just checking if the different dealership has different opinion whether or not to consider it covers under warranty?
There seems to be some discrepancies when it comes to dealers about this subject. Some are oblivious to the problem and some are more than happy to help.
As a 86 owner this is so painful to watch...
Put a B58 in there and have some real fun
I have dri ing MT for 50 years and never heard of a MONEY SHIFT. Can't imagine going from 3rd to 1st while tracking. Oh well you got a nice shop. BTW for folks thinking about taking a peek at the oil pan it will void the warranty.
If you haven't heard the term money shift that's probably a good thing. We'll get it fixed up.
it"s 3rd to second. When you are at 7200rpm and go to second gear it can be pretty harsh the engine. Like this one exploded (valve float + interaction between them i asume)
@@FTspeed How about a PURE POWER oil filter. It has magnets to trap the metal shavings.
@@AlexPellerin. my bad. I guess you can't go from 3 to 1 but 3 to 2 is possible. Have you ever heard of PURE POWER oil gilters.
@@shaggyman8564 more likely from 5 to 2 instead of 5 to 4 😤
his fa24 decided to make some chips 😅
Yeah they put too much RTV on the pan and that clogged your oil pickup... Pfff
Am I the only one who wishes you could money shift a Tesla lol?!
Someone underestimated the lack of power on track indeed,
Is this because of the rtv Silicone build up? I’m sorry this happened, my GR86 is at Toyota right now and they are dropping the oil pan to look for any Excessive rtv. I don’t want anything happening to my GR86, also in Neptune Blue.
Are you going to drop the oil pan in your personal GR86 to make sure it’s ok?
It’s because they blew the motor
They stated it got "money shifted" right in the beginning.
@@TheBTRGarage I get they said money shift but it could still be an RTV issue if it blocked the oil passage
@@Emb4Prez yes but did the motor blow because of oil starvation due to the rtv issue not just because they money shifted
@@CruiseControl1 did you even watch the video? there's only 3 tiny pieces of rtv in there, not enough to even block anything. stop getting so paranoid this rtv issue has been going on since first gen and majority of subaru cars. relax.
We need affordable sports cars with 9k redlines.
Why is the waranty of this GR86 void?
What modifications have been done on it before the engine blew?
The warranty is not void. What he meant was that a moneyshift (driver error) is not covered by warranty.
The warrant does not cover user error. If you miss shift and cause the engine to over rev, that's not covered. There were no engine modifications done to the car.
@@FTspeed thanks, with the "may or may not", i was not sure it was actually a money shifting ...
Na waiting for the new type R here in Philippines but my first choice whas thie gen2 86 but for this issue naah pass
Just watch Toyota be like... all RTV blown engines are now the owners fault for money shifts lol....
Wait I am confused how did the engine let go and why is not covered under warranty? Parts Testing? Track time should be covered on a stock car
Money shifting is user error which isn't covered 🤷♂️
@@wdiv ahhh I could not hear/understand him so I missed that 👍
10% smarter than the equipment their jeff
The term money shift usually refers to the driver shifting into the wrong gear causing the engine to over rev which can lead to internal failures which is why you see all the metal in the oil pan. This sort of human error is not covered under warranty.
@@FTspeed haha I know what a money shift is just did not catch where in the video Kevin stated what happened
Too much RTV for the loss.
What happened to the header? looks pretty busted
Someone dropped a screwdriver down there and the header melted the handle.
Does dropping the oil pan void warranty?
Yes it does.
No, it does not automatically void your warranty. That's not how the whole process works. If you're worried about the warranty, have the dealership do it for you. If you choose to do it on your own, make sure you document the process showing that you took the necessary steps to properly uninstall and reinstall the pan. If you botch the job, that can certainly lead to them denying your claim.
lol i am gonna cancel my order and get another car thanks toyobaru
money shift? rip
Why wasn't this covered by warranty?
Driver error usually isn't covered, especially on "wear" items like the enginie.. It's 100% not covered if it happened on a track.
Watching Kevin Vo
What is Money Shift?
Shift into the wrong gear which causes the engine to over rev resulting in your spending more money!
When your mom forced it in the wrong gear while down on me
Toyota: Haaaaa gottem
Your title is just straight clickbait.. the rtv has nothing to do with your blown engine. But now it seems like it does. Not cool.
The title says nothing about RTV nor do we ever state the blown engine was caused by the RTV. In fact, it's stated at the very beginning of the video that the failure was due to a miss shift.
The audacity of this dogwater company is hilarious. For those that don't know, Kevin Vo was fired from FT Speed on 12/13/2022 in a disgusting way. Buy your parts from somewhere else than FTSpeed or Subispeed folks; support somewhere that supports its employees and treats them with respect.
An 8-year, passionate, face-of-your company employee deserves the respect and courtesy of at least a conversation being had about any conflicts of interest or things that would necessitate termination of employment if continued.
To outright fire him out of the blue without giving him a heads up or notice that something he is doing/saying will not fly and deny him the ability to make an informed decision on what his options are going forward reflects poorly upon FTSpeed/Subispeed.
In a game where you just play the middleman, I will gladly take my business elsewhere to some other middleman that isn't FTSpeed/SubiSpeed; there are a plethora of other options out there that can access more or less the same catalogue of items.
FTSpeed/Subiespeed did Kevin Vo dirty, when Kevin Vo was a SIGNIFICANT part of why the company is as successful as it is today - hopefully yall's marketshare takes a deserving hit and Kevin lands somewhere that will treat him better and be worthy of the good-business his passion and efforts bring forth.
Put HALF the RTV beads recommended by Subaru manual. The factory RTV amount is what killed your engines in the first place.
Remember that RTV is only to fill the tiny gaps between machined metal surfaces. If you can see the excess after torque down, you put in too much.
Lmao, no it isn't.. did you even watch the video?
@@hhaste actually half is too much. Goal is to not have RTV bead out when fully torqued.
K Swap baby
These cars are being beaten to death. A normal driver will have no issues
Warranty voided
yikes 😬
🤑😂😅😭
fyi they would have covered it.
The Warranty claim was denied. They can see it was over-revved.
@@FTspeed Id have fought that I cant tell you how many "over revs" Ive replaced under warranty.
Engine swap!!!!!
Even if it's the BMW/Toyota i6
Is that amount of metal shavings in an engine even normal? I’m stunned that Subaru would allow this bad QC.
The metal is from the over-rev damage (the money shift he mentions).
The metal shavings are clearly from the money shift. Of course a normal engine would not have that level of shavings.
I would go to toyota and get a new motor from warranty ..... they track the car in adds... sure glade i didnt buy one.. ps ive heard of toyota
give warranty to track cards after saying no... they got a problem with this issue... go to toyota and get your new engine free...
That sucks bad
It's certainly not a good feeling.
So what is the update for gr86? did toyota made some action to fix this issue? I will be getting my gr86 next month.