Someone needs to make an aftermarket solid oil pan gasket so we can stop worrying about RTV clogging the oil pickup and oil system. Or better yet, Subaru themselves need to make it.
I looked into that. There are some aftermarket oil pans that use handmade gaskets... reviews indicate those can be leaky. And like jaron95 indicated, the video showed that there are quite a few places the RTV is coming from, so swapping out the RTV on the lower oil pan isn't going to solve the issue. Plus aftermarket pans can conflict with the exhaust manifold. I think the reason we don't see any responses from Toyota or Subaru on this is that there isn't really anything that can be done. Most of the engine assembly's are sealed with RTV. RTV is the issue... the solution would be a modified pickup tube that may has an additional screen at the bottom that makes it easier to access and/or could allow the loose RTV to stay in the oil pan. Doesn't stop the RTV from accumulating in the pan, but would possibly remediate the starvation issue some have experienced.
@danielsoto_toronto not wanting to have wasted $35k on a car that might blow its engine halfway into the break-in period is "not really liking the car?"
Instead of removing the sump, if you put compressed air through the oil filter housing, and then put engine in the sump without the sump plug, I’m pretty sure the rtv would come out. Ps if you removed the sump you should install a baffle plate at the same time, if you are going to track it.
Less than a thousand on ODO on my GR86. I will be dropping my oil pan for the first time in the fall of 2024 when I have close to 10k on the ODO. Based on what I've read and seen, I'm guaranteed to find some RTV in the pickup. I'm not paying a dealership to do it when they obviously don't care about it in the first place. They could easily just tell me they performed the procedure only to have lied about it and I end up with oil starvation. Depending on how much I find in the pickup, will determine how often I drop the pan to inspect the pickup. This car is eventually get getting a V8 swap, but until then it is my daily driver, so I need to take care of it. Thanks for the step-by-step Ernie. I'll definitely be referencing this video when the time comes.
If possible, maybe try to find a Toyota dealership that listens to your concern, and be willing to allow you into the workshop when the oil pan is dropped and for you to see inside the pick-up tube, or else ask them to video it for you. Also, would it be worthwhile for them to give you the replaced oil filter, so that you can check the amount of RTV bits that maybe in it. Take some photos, and then at the next service check that oil filter. I am contemplating buying a BRZ, but not for track use (if so, very gentle), thereby from what I am understanding there should be no issues. I am not aware of anyone having issues with only general usage, although there probably would be some RTV in the strainer. The Subaru dealership that I am looking at provides one year membership to the BRZ Club, and are very supportive. Regarding your V8 swap, it probably be awesome, I wish you all the best. For me, I would prefer to keep it as it is, due to its lightness. Cheers.
The entire situation with the engine in these cars is super frustrating but that still did not stop me from placing an order. That being said, I'd hope that Subaru and Toyota both show some more integrity with regards to the excessive RTV in the oil pick up tube as well as the oil pressure loss with certain driving maneuvers. I've expressed my concerns in an email to Toyota of USA, and I hope that other 86 and BRZ owners also do the same. Attention cannot be taken away from these issues, only consistent spotlight will lead to some form of action
Same here. I was very worried when I first started to hear about this RTV issue but with the 5 sided basket and all the videos of people dropping the pan early in the car's life, it made me realize that this can be easily managed. I placed my order last week and can't wait to drive it.
I will do it myself in a 2022 GR86 with 2900 miles The dealer doesn’t want to do it They want 2 choices 1.- just change the oil for free 2.- charge me $450.00 for 2 hours of labor!!!!! Otherwise I have stay as I am So after watching your video I will do it. Thanks
48 ftlb for the manifold to the engine. Found this on a forum, doubted it as the old spec was 22. Called Subaru dealer, they looked it up and confirmed.
Yeah i saw that video the other day followed by Toyota's announcement that they'll most likely make the next GR86 with a Toyota motor, i can't say i blame them.
I’m curious how much of the basket needs to be blocked before any real oiling issues occur. It looks like a lot of RTV, but it’s a 5 sided basket, and only 40-50% of ONE side is blocked by that much RTV. Like could you 100% block 4 sides and still be fine? Would be intrigued to know! Subaru obviously made it a basket like that on purpose. Thanks for the video 💪🏻🔥🔥
Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure if Ernie told it in the video and I missed it, but that is the first time I hear that the upper part of the basket which everybody is always showing after dropping the pan is not the complete intake and just one side. You also raise the correct follow up question whether other sides actually do or not do matter. I would assume that the side everybodys always shows after dropping the pan is the main one, hence so much RTV on that side since it is moving with the main flow
How many miles were on the BRZ when dropping the pan? I'm thinking about dropping my GR86's pan during my 2nd oil change (6000-7000 miles), but I don't know if that's enough mileage for most of the RTV to shed...
It’s tough to say I saw one owner say his blew at 39xx miles. Ours is at 5800 the 22 WRX was at 7600 miles when we did it. I’d say 6-7 is probably a good range to shoot for!
Subaru should take care of this issue. It’s ridiculous that they continue to ignore this. Kinda like they did with their head gasket problem’s they had. I guess they are going to have to have a class action lawsuit against them to get them to address this.
There is no fix for it because of how the engine was designed, They don't want to risk it to leak which will become a even bigger headache for them. This is also not an issue untill you rev the crap out of the car.
Based off of the pickup design it seems as if it was intended, this issue stems from the first FA24DIT's in ascents and outbacks which have a big problem with the upper oil pan leaking, i believe Subaru might have said F*** IT and made the machines simply put more RTV on all seals instead of redesigning some of the mating surfaces.
I’ve tried but failed, the scope we have does have a long end that doesn’t bend which may have been our problem, with a smaller scope it should be possible.
There are a lot of comments all over the interwebnets about having to perform this procedure every few thousand miles, but... it's not like there's going to be a ton more RTV to knock loose right? It's not like a haircut, the RTV doesn't grow back. Is there a large chance of more excess RTV flaking off as time goes on?
So the entirety of the engine assembly from the factory is completely flawed. Even if I pull the oil pan, the amount of RTV is other areas are still pretty excessive, and only gets worse as the miles rack up. For all we know, there could be even larger chunks falling off at 15k miles, which would necessitate the need to pull the oil pan and clean. Again. Or if it's tracked, the high heat and loads could force rip chunks of RTV off pretty easily even at low miles. What crap QC and assembly this is. Subaru could literally program their engine assemble robots to use even less RTV and it would quite literally mitigate this problem once and for all, while saving them a lot of money along the way. Like holy crap this is infuriating to say the least. What the hell are they thinking??!?! I wanted to love this car, but this isn't something that should be an issue at all, since it's such a simple fix from the factory. Instead, this extra maintenance is left to the consumer, assuming their engine doesn't blow up first. Never going to buy a Subaru product ever. There's crap QC and then there's Subaru QC, which slots several levels below crap.
Honestly speaking tho why couldn't they just put a normal gasket on it instead of using silicone on it? Could anyone explain that to me because I really really want to buy this car but I don't want to have to worry about cleaning the RTV every couple thousand miles just to drive the car normally.
If you’re planning on driving it normally I think you’ll probably be fine, maybe do one clean after a few thousand miles. Track driving is where this job becomes a must IMO.
Subaru has been ignoring and failing to correct manufacturer defects for a long time. Take the blown head gasket problem. This is a problem that can be corrected buy using better gaskets, yet Subaru has failed to do that forever.
@@turkicsayajin2274 I have about 20k miles on mine now. I have full bolt-ons along with a flex fuel tune. I run mostly pure E85 in warm months and switch back to 93 octane in the winter. I street drive the car fairly aggressively and do occasional track days. The car has been flawless. They key is to run a 5w30 oil and not the 0w20 that the owners manual calls for. It has been proven that is only for EPA requirements and is not adequate protection for hard driving. Other than that, just keep the oil level full. These cars do consume some oil from high temp, high rpm use. That situation is also dramatically improved with use of the thicker oil. I have no complaints.
@@boost331 thank you very much, english is not my mother tongue so what will full bolt ons be ? Pardon me it’s my first sports car i want all the info i can get my hands on
@@turkicsayajin2274In the case of a naturally aspirated car, full bolt ons means you installed of the the basic upgrades that simply bolt on to the vehicle. So no major things like upgrading the engine internals or adding boost with a turbo\supercharger. In my case I upgraded the intake system, the entire exhaust, including the header, suspension, and tuned the car to run on E85.
@@boost331 how i get it ! thank you for time ! Last question, do you do your own oil changes ? If so do you use an oil drain plug ? and what do you think about changing oil using an oil pump directly through the dipstick oil ? Thank you very much !
Actually i used less than Subaru's technical bulletin calls for, and it seems like the oil pan is not where most of the rtv comes from, it's most likely the timing cover.
yeah, doesn't seem like this engine was engineered well. This and the several incidents of the vehicle over heating on the track due to oil pressure issues support my point.
Shame on Subaru. This should be a class-action law suite.
funny thing is, it applies to every one of their cars but naturally aspirated get affected the worst.
best video on this issue so far. great work!!!
Great video, and thanks for stating where the RTV is coming from.
This video was great! Informative and the humor landed! Very well done!
Ernie content is golden! Thank you for another beautiful video! Also, I am glad you didn't fall coming back in from the blizzard. Cat like reflexes!
Keep the BRZ videos coming! Loved your steering wheel upgrade video, very helpful!
Planning it out as we speak :)
Someone needs to make an aftermarket solid oil pan gasket so we can stop worrying about RTV clogging the oil pickup and oil system. Or better yet, Subaru themselves need to make it.
I agree, but this video showed that it's probably not the oil pan producing the excess RTV. See 10:23
I looked into that. There are some aftermarket oil pans that use handmade gaskets... reviews indicate those can be leaky. And like jaron95 indicated, the video showed that there are quite a few places the RTV is coming from, so swapping out the RTV on the lower oil pan isn't going to solve the issue. Plus aftermarket pans can conflict with the exhaust manifold.
I think the reason we don't see any responses from Toyota or Subaru on this is that there isn't really anything that can be done. Most of the engine assembly's are sealed with RTV. RTV is the issue... the solution would be a modified pickup tube that may has an additional screen at the bottom that makes it easier to access and/or could allow the loose RTV to stay in the oil pan. Doesn't stop the RTV from accumulating in the pan, but would possibly remediate the starvation issue some have experienced.
wow the amount of RTV in that pickup is insane.
Damn, ive been eyeing the gr86 but this is the one thing holding me back.
Also, this is a super thorough rundown. Thank you!
if that's what's holding you up, you don't really like this car 🤣
@danielsoto_toronto not wanting to have wasted $35k on a car that might blow its engine halfway into the break-in period is "not really liking the car?"
Instead of removing the sump, if you put compressed air through the oil filter housing, and then put engine in the sump without the sump plug, I’m pretty sure the rtv would come out. Ps if you removed the sump you should install a baffle plate at the same time, if you are going to track it.
Less than a thousand on ODO on my GR86. I will be dropping my oil pan for the first time in the fall of 2024 when I have close to 10k on the ODO. Based on what I've read and seen, I'm guaranteed to find some RTV in the pickup. I'm not paying a dealership to do it when they obviously don't care about it in the first place. They could easily just tell me they performed the procedure only to have lied about it and I end up with oil starvation. Depending on how much I find in the pickup, will determine how often I drop the pan to inspect the pickup. This car is eventually get getting a V8 swap, but until then it is my daily driver, so I need to take care of it.
Thanks for the step-by-step Ernie. I'll definitely be referencing this video when the time comes.
If possible, maybe try to find a Toyota dealership that listens to your concern, and be willing to allow you into the workshop when the oil pan is dropped and for you to see inside the pick-up tube, or else ask them to video it for you.
Also, would it be worthwhile for them to give you the replaced oil filter, so that you can check the amount of RTV bits that maybe in it. Take some photos, and then at the next service check that oil filter.
I am contemplating buying a BRZ, but not for track use (if so, very gentle), thereby from what I am understanding there should be no issues. I am not aware of anyone having issues with only general usage, although there probably would be some RTV in the strainer.
The Subaru dealership that I am looking at provides one year membership to the BRZ Club, and are very supportive.
Regarding your V8 swap, it probably be awesome, I wish you all the best. For me, I would prefer to keep it as it is, due to its lightness. Cheers.
The entire situation with the engine in these cars is super frustrating but that still did not stop me from placing an order. That being said, I'd hope that Subaru and Toyota both show some more integrity with regards to the excessive RTV in the oil pick up tube as well as the oil pressure loss with certain driving maneuvers. I've expressed my concerns in an email to Toyota of USA, and I hope that other 86 and BRZ owners also do the same. Attention cannot be taken away from these issues, only consistent spotlight will lead to some form of action
Same here. I was very worried when I first started to hear about this RTV issue but with the 5 sided basket and all the videos of people dropping the pan early in the car's life, it made me realize that this can be easily managed. I placed my order last week and can't wait to drive it.
@CDavid-hv4cf Hype! Congrats man!
Wait, so the dealership won't do this for you? I was thinking about getting one but I'm worried about the rtv
Nope. Subaru still saying its a non issue.
Love this content. "These nuts" heh - you got me there. Very well laid out and well spoken. Subscribed now. Thanks again guys/gals
Welcome aboard!
I will do it myself in a 2022 GR86 with 2900 miles
The dealer doesn’t want to do it
They want 2 choices
1.- just change the oil for free
2.- charge me $450.00 for 2 hours of labor!!!!!
Otherwise I have stay as I am
So after watching your video I will do it.
Thanks
Great video. Great production and editing. If you would have stated the torque specs that would make this video definitive.
Sorry, since it’s a new car some of them are challenging to find :(
48 ftlb for the manifold to the engine. Found this on a forum, doubted it as the old spec was 22. Called Subaru dealer, they looked it up and confirmed.
You’re right. Executive compensation packages… designed by investors, for investors.
It won't matter the engine is defective. I will starve in RH turns on a track anyway. The CEL is the change engine light in these...
Yeah i saw that video the other day followed by Toyota's announcement that they'll most likely make the next GR86 with a Toyota motor, i can't say i blame them.
@@rallysportdirectimagine if they designed a modern 3sge for these. 👌
Thanks for sharing! I though it was only GR86's but damn, no one is safe 😢
I’m curious how much of the basket needs to be blocked before any real oiling issues occur. It looks like a lot of RTV, but it’s a 5 sided basket, and only 40-50% of ONE side is blocked by that much RTV. Like could you 100% block 4 sides and still be fine? Would be intrigued to know! Subaru obviously made it a basket like that on purpose. Thanks for the video 💪🏻🔥🔥
More than likely its not too much of an issue unless you are pushing the car very hard like the case of the GR86 on the track.
So long as you don't drive it beyond Camry driving. 😅
I guess there is a reason only that side get blocked. Probably most of oil flow go through that side.
Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure if Ernie told it in the video and I missed it, but that is the first time I hear that the upper part of the basket which everybody is always showing after dropping the pan is not the complete intake and just one side. You also raise the correct follow up question whether other sides actually do or not do matter. I would assume that the side everybodys always shows after dropping the pan is the main one, hence so much RTV on that side since it is moving with the main flow
How many miles were on the BRZ when dropping the pan? I'm thinking about dropping my GR86's pan during my 2nd oil change (6000-7000 miles), but I don't know if that's enough mileage for most of the RTV to shed...
It’s tough to say I saw one owner say his blew at 39xx miles. Ours is at 5800 the 22 WRX was at 7600 miles when we did it. I’d say 6-7 is probably a good range to shoot for!
@@rallysportdirect Thank you~
Subaru should take care of this issue. It’s ridiculous that they continue to ignore this. Kinda like they did with their head gasket problem’s they had. I guess they are going to have to have a class action lawsuit against them to get them to address this.
There is no fix for it because of how the engine was designed, They don't want to risk it to leak which will become a even bigger headache for them. This is also not an issue untill you rev the crap out of the car.
That timing cover holy shit! Do you think this is an assembly error or poor design? Both?
Based off of the pickup design it seems as if it was intended, this issue stems from the first FA24DIT's in ascents and outbacks which have a big problem with the upper oil pan leaking, i believe Subaru might have said F*** IT and made the machines simply put more RTV on all seals instead of redesigning some of the mating surfaces.
Great video, well said. Thanks for the video
Looks like the pickup tube and the drain plug line up a little. Anyway you could run a flex camera up after the plug is removed?
I’ve tried but failed, the scope we have does have a long end that doesn’t bend which may have been our problem, with a smaller scope it should be possible.
@@rallysportdirect I tried also. It does give you a good view of the RTV still intact.
Thoughts on installing the Ansix oil pan with inspection port to save all this work yet allow for inspection on every oil change?
Money well spent in my opinion!
Perhaps an idea for a future video to install the Ansix oil pan
There are a lot of comments all over the interwebnets about having to perform this procedure every few thousand miles, but... it's not like there's going to be a ton more RTV to knock loose right? It's not like a haircut, the RTV doesn't grow back. Is there a large chance of more excess RTV flaking off as time goes on?
Why don't you just use a plastic blade on the aluminum mating surface?
I read that if clean it once the problem will not return
Pretty sure this is enough for a recall
Was there any rtv in the pick up tube ? Daily or track or both ? Curious to know since I only daily with a little spirited driving
Indeed there was, I’m yet to see a new brz or wrx to not have junk in there. It hasn’t seen the track yet but we drive it hard.
So the entirety of the engine assembly from the factory is completely flawed. Even if I pull the oil pan, the amount of RTV is other areas are still pretty excessive, and only gets worse as the miles rack up. For all we know, there could be even larger chunks falling off at 15k miles, which would necessitate the need to pull the oil pan and clean. Again. Or if it's tracked, the high heat and loads could force rip chunks of RTV off pretty easily even at low miles. What crap QC and assembly this is. Subaru could literally program their engine assemble robots to use even less RTV and it would quite literally mitigate this problem once and for all, while saving them a lot of money along the way. Like holy crap this is infuriating to say the least. What the hell are they thinking??!?! I wanted to love this car, but this isn't something that should be an issue at all, since it's such a simple fix from the factory. Instead, this extra maintenance is left to the consumer, assuming their engine doesn't blow up first. Never going to buy a Subaru product ever. There's crap QC and then there's Subaru QC, which slots several levels below crap.
Same here, I was interested at first but seeing shit like this is no bueno.
Honestly speaking tho why couldn't they just put a normal gasket on it instead of using silicone on it? Could anyone explain that to me because I really really want to buy this car but I don't want to have to worry about cleaning the RTV every couple thousand miles just to drive the car normally.
If you’re planning on driving it normally I think you’ll probably be fine, maybe do one clean after a few thousand miles. Track driving is where this job becomes a must IMO.
normal gasket = new manufacture line, probably external supplies. RTV - just one robot "paints" gasket of any shape in seconds.
There should be a recall for this.
Apparently subaru subscribes to the "bigger the gob the better the job" philosophy!
It’s Crazy that you have to do this on a new car because of shoddy manufacturing !
Good keep.
Really great video thank you
Subaru needs to adopt Toyota’s kaizen approach.
Go HALF of Subaru recommendations. You saw how their applications of RTV turned out.
Subaru has been ignoring and failing to correct manufacturer defects for a long time. Take the blown head gasket problem. This is a problem that can be corrected buy using better gaskets, yet Subaru has failed to do that forever.
Wanted to see some donuts in the WRX. :sadface:
I am keeping all my RTV intact. Also tracking the car and doing 5k oil changes just to prove the point that this is purely overblown BS.
im buying soon, updates on your car please ?
@@turkicsayajin2274 I have about 20k miles on mine now. I have full bolt-ons along with a flex fuel tune. I run mostly pure E85 in warm months and switch back to 93 octane in the winter. I street drive the car fairly aggressively and do occasional track days. The car has been flawless. They key is to run a 5w30 oil and not the 0w20 that the owners manual calls for. It has been proven that is only for EPA requirements and is not adequate protection for hard driving. Other than that, just keep the oil level full. These cars do consume some oil from high temp, high rpm use. That situation is also dramatically improved with use of the thicker oil. I have no complaints.
@@boost331 thank you very much, english is not my mother tongue so what will full bolt ons be ? Pardon me it’s my first sports car i want all the info i can get my hands on
@@turkicsayajin2274In the case of a naturally aspirated car, full bolt ons means you installed of the the basic upgrades that simply bolt on to the vehicle. So no major things like upgrading the engine internals or adding boost with a turbo\supercharger. In my case I upgraded the intake system, the entire exhaust, including the header, suspension, and tuned the car to run on E85.
@@boost331 how i get it ! thank you for time ! Last question, do you do your own oil changes ? If so do you use an oil drain plug ? and what do you think about changing oil using an oil pump directly through the dipstick oil ?
Thank you very much !
There should be a better tool for applying RTV. I think he used way to much, and doesn't that defeat the goal of not having RTV engine failure?
Actually i used less than Subaru's technical bulletin calls for, and it seems like the oil pan is not where most of the rtv comes from, it's most likely the timing cover.
dont use razor blades or that platic brush you will ruin your car. Use this instead 3m 18733 roloc white disc its good for aluminum too.
I hate colorado
"More cleaner"? *Sigh*
2 minutes of blah blah blah get on with it already
yeah, doesn't seem like this engine was engineered well. This and the several incidents of the vehicle over heating on the track due to oil pressure issues support my point.