When I do shorten a spring I put it into a bucket of water so that just 2 or 3 windings protrude above the water level, not to anaealing more of the spring than necessary.
Hi Jeff, Thank you for your very informative video. I've only been airgunning a few years. It would have been much longer, but through circumstance and other people, that's what it is. I hadn't heard of scragging, though it makes sense. I thought you did very well heating and compressing the spring rather than cutting and grinding. In hindsight, I think you did the best thing. I was watching a guy on Utube doing a similar thing with his HW95 and thought he'd so much bottle and patience, especially to film and post his journey. He dismantled, chopped his spring and re assembled his rifle that many times, I'd have expected him to have worn some of the airgun parts. A real sod of a job, though he got there in the end. Your crono readings as a novice, I'd have thought couldn't have read better, jolly well done! A lovely ending to your story with your Walthur break barrel. With respect, I don't think many folk in field target would entertain a break barrel because of the breech fulcrum, though Walthur's are built like a bank vault. I think I'm right in saying, your Walthur will have nylon glides which places it in TX land. I would politely think, if you keep the breech lubed and looked after, this will be a great, accurate air rifle for you and may well produce a direction you never expected. I'm not a fan of the shoulder strap clip on your break barrel. I made my own personal wrap around fixing out of seat belt strap that slides further down the gun with a smaller strap securing through the trigger guard, which connects to an SA 80 British Army rifle sling. The rifle then hangs muzzle down, by my side. A great video of which I'll make notes to remind me on my own journey. Thank you Jeff, and very best wishes.
great video ,, little tip , next time try using a old steel spring guide when compressing and heating with pliers ,, Insert the steel spring guide and heat the spring , then compress with pliers ,, It will keep the spring concentric and make for a easier job :) love the channel and content,,, lyn lewington top bloke
I own a few weihrauchs and when I got my LGV they became my reserve guns. When I work on a spring, I use old steel spring guides to ensure the heated end is level.
I love your straight-forward real-life presentations. I look forward to your contributions. Many thanks and have a Happy Christmas with best wishes for the New Year.
I’m not sure the length of the spring determines the power it produces. There are other variables. For example, how tensile the steel is, it has been manufactured from. Which means a shorter, high tensile spring, may be more powerful than a longer spring that is more malleable. Obviously, if you shorten the spring, it will deliver less power, but it is knowing how much to take off. You will also need to flatten the end of the spring by heating it to a very high temperature and squeezing it into the next coil. Finally, you will need to grind and burnish the end using a sanding, disc or belt, so that it sits flat and square. It is quite along and tricky process to get it right. I hope everything works out for you. 👍
Great video Jeff, I learned a lot. Your some guy.. I was loving you taking a blow torch to the spring, that was brilliant. 😃👌👌 and your new Walther rifle is a nice piece of kit and great shooting to . thanks for your time in making your videos. 👌👍🤘
I'm sure you're right about the spring length Steve; different steel, different power. I guess if you shorten it too much it's easy to bring the power back up with washers. 🙂👍
As an armourer if we had to retention a spring either we didn’t have one on hand or it was a display weapon we would Immerse it in molten lead until it was the same temp as the lead 15 min appx This is as close to the correct temp as is easily obtained for spring steel This should stop the spring compressing further than you want it to after you shorten it Not always perfect but a good shot in the right direction Cheers Dave
hello if you heat the spring keep the parts that you not want to heat keep that in a in a damp cloth , and if the result is correct cool it in oil when red . . and after that heat it back to 200 celcius 30 min to get the stress out if a spring is to hard it will break .but if the hardness is gone also its just iron wire then ,keep the flame up when heatin or at least a metal sheet to protect the rest
Great video with a happy ending to your repair. i would test your 97 with a light pellet such as a JSB RS. These give the most power in every springer i own, just to stay safe. Fantastic result with the Walther, they are a lovely rifle. Take care.
FYI ... at 6.02 on the vid you show the tab snapped off from the cocking link arm. During the World FT Champs in Lisbon 2016, two HW97's had the same issue. Luckily a fellow shooter had a spare, and they sourced the other from a Portuguese supplier. Lucky boys ;)
Hi mate. After shooting hft with a TX for a while, I thought I'd try a 97. It was putting out 11.5fpe and the firing cycle was harsh and 'twangy'. I dropped a TBT kit in with a short stroke extension. Massive difference. Now putting out 10.9fpe with very little recoil. It's a work in progress and I need a stock but I do have high hopes for it when finished.
Are coils ever collapsed in the middle? It would avoid a modified spring breaking one of the plastic parts and might introduce another quality such reduced noise. Effectively it would be two shorter springs in series.
great job mate . one thing i would say and thus is just a personal thing don’t think one is right and one is wrong . would possibly try to keep a more even heat around that spring then collapse it ( easier said than done ) and i would have put the collapsed end in the guide end not the top hat . train of thought there is it has slight support and it’s the top hat end that gets the big slam the guide end stays still ( well not still because it’s a double recoil as it were ) but slightly less that the big wack the front end gets . also tickle the spring ends with a bit of wet and dry give then a bit of a polish . quite right about the slip washer . although i have one on either end top hat and the guide . now i could be talking b***ox but in my mind it works . 🤪🤪🤪🤪
@@hftshooter oh did you 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 i though you said top hat end when you were burning the sprig 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 shows how much i listen 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 must say that break barrel did the job mate cracking score 👍
The muzzle energy is dependent on multiple factors including standing air capacity, port size, pellet weight, not just the spring dimensions, its not advisable to mess with the system as an amateur, its much more complex than you think ( i used to professionally build 20+ ft lb HW FAC rifles )
Springs are bar pushed out of a swage against a tooling face makes the bar into a coil, then the spring steel coil is placed into a clave oven, cut to length induction treated at the ends and compressed
Try it with a jsb exact heavy or another 10,34g pellet, that’s what gives my rifle the most ftlb. If I adjusted my rifle to shoot 8,44 at 11.5-11.8ftlb, it’ll be somewhere around 12.5-13ftlb with a 10,34. Just saying from what my experience has been with pellet weights and chrono 😊 nice score with that break barrel
I'm no Blacksmith, I'm a Plumber. But with hard copper, we can heat up (Anaealing) the pipe to make it soft to bend. My only worry is that by making it soft, you will weaken it, and in a springer like bending a ring pull from a can of pop until it just breaks off.
Wonder if you can help me .I've gone down the rabbit hole with spring twang. I've watched 50 million videos on tune kits .I've seen the TBT kits but am not a fan of putting in plastic into my HW97K, I have got my own lathe and was thinking of making my own out of steel or aluminium, everyone says the guide needs to be tight and i know they say the spring opens up under tension, but also have read by having the guide tight can cause friction and put wear on your spring, also why dont air rifle manufacturers make a tighter spring guide in the first-hand, they would be able to sell better with a quite springer ,i also read the manufacturers make a loose guide purposely to prevent wear ??? Thought i would ask you if you could find out as i know you are like me and do things by the book , one more whats your thoughts on putting in a aluminium sleeve inside the piston to help with ywang ? thanks
I'm no expert, but if you only want to eliminate twang then from what I understand you only need to fit a piston liner. A lot of people use ptfe sheet which you can buy on ebay, but I've also heard you can use thin plastic like that used on UK milk cartons. If you prefer metal then I've heard that you should only use thin steel and not aluminium. Hope that helps. 🙂👍
@hftshooter cheers m8 .you know a lot more than alot off ppl on TH-cam, you tend to find out the right way ,,if you get chance maybe you could do a topic on why manufacturers don't do this from the factory? Maybe pop it in one of your videos, ok alot of ppl say it's down to cost ,but it doesn't cost anymore to make the parts the right size and if that's the case they would sell better as quite springers ?
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.4 (4/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d3l5rxl5CVo/mqdefault.jpg)
When I do shorten a spring I put it into a bucket of water so that just 2 or 3 windings protrude above the water level, not to anaealing more of the spring than necessary.
Good tip, thanks. 👍
You can also use a wet rag. I do it for welding things with plastic part on as well and hardened material.
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for your very informative video. I've only been airgunning a few years. It would have been much longer, but through circumstance and other people, that's what it is.
I hadn't heard of scragging, though it makes sense. I thought you did very well heating and compressing the spring rather than cutting and grinding. In hindsight, I think you did the best thing.
I was watching a guy on Utube doing a similar thing with his HW95 and thought he'd so much bottle and patience, especially to film and post his journey. He dismantled, chopped his spring and re assembled his rifle that many times, I'd have expected him to have worn some of the airgun parts. A real sod of a job, though he got there in the end.
Your crono readings as a novice, I'd have thought couldn't have read better, jolly well done!
A lovely ending to your story with your Walthur break barrel. With respect, I don't think many folk in field target would entertain a break barrel because of the breech fulcrum, though Walthur's are built like a bank vault.
I think I'm right in saying, your Walthur will have nylon glides which places it in TX land. I would politely think, if you keep the breech lubed and looked after, this will be a great, accurate air rifle for you and may well produce a direction you never expected.
I'm not a fan of the shoulder strap clip on your break barrel. I made my own personal wrap around fixing out of seat belt strap that slides further down the gun with a smaller strap securing through the trigger guard, which connects to an SA 80 British Army rifle sling. The rifle then hangs muzzle down, by my side.
A great video of which I'll make notes to remind me on my own journey.
Thank you Jeff, and very best wishes.
Thanks Ian, I appreciate your comments. 😀👍
Hi Jeff,
Thank you, you're very welcome.
Thank you for your reply.
great video ,, little tip , next time try using a old steel spring guide when compressing and heating with pliers ,, Insert the steel spring guide and heat the spring , then compress with pliers ,, It will keep the spring concentric and make for a easier job :) love the channel and content,,, lyn lewington top bloke
Great tip!
I own a few weihrauchs and when I got my LGV they became my reserve guns.
When I work on a spring, I use old steel spring guides to ensure the heated end is level.
I used a bolt with the correct O/D. Good method.
Great tip!
It’s that LGV that give you that score, cracking rifles
I love your straight-forward real-life presentations. I look forward to your contributions. Many thanks and have a Happy Christmas with best wishes for the New Year.
Hi Mike, I really appreciate that thanks, and the compliments of the season to you and yours also.
I’m not sure the length of the spring determines the power it produces. There are other variables. For example, how tensile the steel is, it has been manufactured from. Which means a shorter, high tensile spring, may be more powerful than a longer spring that is more malleable. Obviously, if you shorten the spring, it will deliver less power, but it is knowing how much to take off. You will also need to flatten the end of the spring by heating it to a very high temperature and squeezing it into the next coil. Finally, you will need to grind and burnish the end using a sanding, disc or belt, so that it sits flat and square. It is quite along and tricky process to get it right. I hope everything works out for you. 👍
Great video Jeff, I learned a lot. Your some guy.. I was loving you taking a blow torch to the spring, that was brilliant. 😃👌👌 and your new Walther rifle is a nice piece of kit and great shooting to . thanks for your time in making your videos. 👌👍🤘
I'm sure you're right about the spring length Steve; different steel, different power. I guess if you shorten it too much it's easy to bring the power back up with washers. 🙂👍
As an armourer if we had to retention a spring either we didn’t have one on hand or it was a display weapon we would
Immerse it in molten lead until it was the same temp as the lead
15 min appx
This is as close to the correct temp as is easily obtained for spring steel
This should stop the spring compressing further than you want it to after you shorten it
Not always perfect
but a good shot in the right direction
Cheers Dave
Thanks Dave, that's interesting. 😀👍
Thanks for sharing. I learned a lot from your videos Jeff.
Thanks, great to hear. 🙂👍
Great video.
Keep ‘em coming 😉
hello if you heat the spring keep the parts that you not want to heat keep that in a in a damp cloth , and if the result is correct cool it in oil when red . . and after that heat it back to 200 celcius 30 min to get the stress out if a spring is to hard it will break .but if the hardness is gone also its just iron wire then ,keep the flame up when heatin or at least a metal sheet to protect the rest
Thanks for the tips Peter.
Well done Jeff,tin of pellets to bed-in and should be fine👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😎😎😎
Thanks. 🙂
Great video with a happy ending to your repair. i would test your 97 with a light pellet such as a JSB RS. These give the most power in every springer i own, just to stay safe. Fantastic result with the Walther, they are a lovely rifle. Take care.
Thanks. I have some 7 and 10 grain pellets to check with. 🙂👍
FYI ... at 6.02 on the vid you show the tab snapped off from the cocking link arm. During the World FT Champs in Lisbon 2016, two HW97's had the same issue. Luckily a fellow shooter had a spare, and they sourced the other from a Portuguese supplier. Lucky boys ;)
That's what they get for buying silly German rifles
Hi mate. After shooting hft with a TX for a while, I thought I'd try a 97. It was putting out 11.5fpe and the firing cycle was harsh and 'twangy'. I dropped a TBT kit in with a short stroke extension. Massive difference. Now putting out 10.9fpe with very little recoil. It's a work in progress and I need a stock but I do have high hopes for it when finished.
Starting to wonder whether I should have gone TbT?
@@hftshooter if your doing a 97 don't bother with plastic junk, I'm a TX fan but shot a paul short 97 and it felt like a pcp,
Very informative video, Thanks for sharing, I think you should stick to the LGV
A length or threaded rod, cppl washers and nuts will compress your spring safely 😊
Thanks, I think I'd want to be sure that the threaded rod was up to it!
@hftshooter lol I'm speaking 1/2" or your metric equivalent.
Are coils ever collapsed in the middle? It would avoid a modified spring breaking one of the plastic parts and might introduce another quality such reduced noise. Effectively it would be two shorter springs in series.
Never seen that done. I would think it would seriously affect the function of the spring.
@@hftshooter I agree but not sure if in a good or bad way.
great job mate . one thing i would say and thus is just a personal thing don’t think one is right and one is wrong . would possibly try to keep a more even heat around that spring then collapse it ( easier said than done ) and i would have put the collapsed end in the guide end not the top hat . train of thought there is it has slight support and it’s the top hat end that gets the big slam the guide end stays still ( well not still because it’s a double recoil as it were ) but slightly less that the big wack the front end gets . also tickle the spring ends with a bit of wet and dry give then a bit of a polish . quite right about the slip washer . although i have one on either end top hat and the guide . now i could be talking b***ox but in my mind it works . 🤪🤪🤪🤪
Thanks Paul. I did put the collapsed coil at the guide end not the top hat end, but good point. 👍
@@hftshooter oh did you 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 i though you said top hat end when you were burning the sprig 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 shows how much i listen 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 must say that break barrel did the job mate cracking score 👍
I probably said top hat when I meant to say spring guide. My bad!
@@hftshooter or i heard it wrong 🤪🤪🤪
The muzzle energy is dependent on multiple factors including standing air capacity, port size, pellet weight, not just the spring dimensions, its not advisable to mess with the system as an amateur, its much more complex than you think ( i used to professionally build 20+ ft lb HW FAC rifles )
Thanks for sharing.
Springs are bar pushed out of a swage against a tooling face makes the bar into a coil, then the spring steel coil is placed into a clave oven, cut to length induction treated at the ends and compressed
Thanks for sharing. 🙂👍
Try it with a jsb exact heavy or another 10,34g pellet, that’s what gives my rifle the most ftlb. If I adjusted my rifle to shoot 8,44 at 11.5-11.8ftlb, it’ll be somewhere around 12.5-13ftlb with a 10,34. Just saying from what my experience has been with pellet weights and chrono 😊 nice score with that break barrel
Thanks. I've got some Bisley Magnums to try when the spring has settled.
I'm no Blacksmith, I'm a Plumber. But with hard copper, we can heat up (Anaealing) the pipe to make it soft to bend. My only worry is that by making it soft, you will weaken it, and in a springer like bending a ring pull from a can of pop until it just breaks off.
Also I think that Weihrauch is pronounced with a V (Vi er raark) a bit like Volksvaagen being german.
I'm no expert James, just following the advice of others. People have been doing it this way a long time without issue. 🙂👍
You need to re temper the spring.or try using a Titan spring.
useful video, thank you. 8-)
Thanks for watching!
I’ve seen some good reviews on the HW77…? Which is underlever? Is that comparable to your HW97?
Nice video, thanks. Could you please tell me the name and model of the chronograph you're using?
Sure! It's an ACETECH AC5000. There's more about ti in my video number 27.
BSA mk 1 airsporter .22
8:45
Sorry, you've lost me. 😕
It's pronounced Vy - rarke! (Weihrauch)
can you purchase a weihrauch OEM spring.
Yes, they are available, but still no guarantee that it won't need fettling. Not sure whether they come with spring guide and top hat?
Wonder if you can help me .I've gone down the rabbit hole with spring twang. I've watched 50 million videos on tune kits .I've seen the TBT kits but am not a fan of putting in plastic into my HW97K, I have got my own lathe and was thinking of making my own out of steel or aluminium, everyone says the guide needs to be tight and i know they say the spring opens up under tension, but also have read by having the guide tight can cause friction and put wear on your spring, also why dont air rifle manufacturers make a tighter spring guide in the first-hand, they would be able to sell better with a quite springer ,i also read the manufacturers make a loose guide purposely to prevent wear ??? Thought i would ask you if you could find out as i know you are like me and do things by the book , one more whats your thoughts on putting in a aluminium sleeve inside the piston to help with ywang ? thanks
I'm no expert, but if you only want to eliminate twang then from what I understand you only need to fit a piston liner. A lot of people use ptfe sheet which you can buy on ebay, but I've also heard you can use thin plastic like that used on UK milk cartons. If you prefer metal then I've heard that you should only use thin steel and not aluminium. Hope that helps. 🙂👍
@hftshooter cheers m8 .you know a lot more than alot off ppl on TH-cam, you tend to find out the right way ,,if you get chance maybe you could do a topic on why manufacturers don't do this from the factory? Maybe pop it in one of your videos, ok alot of ppl say it's down to cost ,but it doesn't cost anymore to make the parts the right size and if that's the case they would sell better as quite springers ?
you will be able to compress the spring more using 10mm threaded rod.with nuts at each end.
Thanks Gary, I don't think I'd be wanting to use any old threaded rod though?
VY-RARK just so you know 😉😂
WY-RAUCH 😊
If you’re not sure about how to pronounce Weihruach swap the W for a V so you read veihruach because W in German sounds like V.
Non mi sembra tu sappia usare il cannello e la pinza ..io vedo subito la smanicatura tra le chiacchere e il fare ce ne passa
First time I've ever done it, so won't be perfect!
It’s not breaking the law if no one knows about it
😂😂😂 I'm hoping you're joking!