In my own head I routinely forget the sequel trilogy, so when I get excited for the mandalorian, there's always that dampening moment when I remember that they are going to have to tie everything to a terrible story.
What sequel trilogy? Are you talking about these new Star Wars shows that happen after return of the Jedi? Mandalorian season 1, 2 and book of boba fett? Kinda silly to call it a trilogy but hey why not
Same, I've said it since the beginning if they tie mando to the sequels it'll go up in flames faster than GoT. It's sad really since it's been one of the few good pieces of SW we've gotten under Disney.
Two universes: 1) Ezra didn't pull Ahsoka from the World Between Worlds, somehow leading to the story of the Sequel Trilogy where Luke abandons the galaxy and his sister and becomes a hermit, and the galaxy falls apart. 2) Ezra DID pull Ahsoka from the Word Between Worlds. The movie after Return of the Jedi picks up right after the Battle of Endor. Somewhat resembles Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" best selling book trilogy. Ahsoka lends moral support to Luke and he never abandons the galaxy. Thrawn is the new antagonist. Looks like it would rock the socks off the disgusting Sequels
That would actually work out pretty well. Considering I never finished Rebels at the time because of The Last Jedi, I wonder if Dave already saw the writing on the wall and introduced the World Between Worlds as a potential retcon device.
It's a known Doomcock theory that Filoni and Favrau want to retcon the sequels with "the world between worlds", but seeing how Luke let Grogu go (to fit the sequels, no less), they will all lead back to the Disney trilogy and it's egg on our faces once again. Don't get me wrong. My heart is with you. Ever since The Rise of Skywalker I've been saying: retcon the sequels, make an animated trilogy or series about the old gang squaring off against Thrawn in a Heir to the Empire adaptation (and there's plenty to retcon in Heir to the Empire). Adding Ezra and Ahsoka to the mix wouldn't be perfect but I'll take it. But Disney is Disney. They kept Kathleen Kennedy hired, they re-hired Bob Iger, who ultimately designed the Disney downfall of the last decade. They will double, triple, quadruple, quintuple down until the only people watching is the "consume the product" crowd.
If u don’t count memes the prequels haven’t left a mark on pop culture memory either. The Star Wars trilogy would be referenced in other films, tv shows, and cartoons.
Unfortunately it is impossible to get leftist ideologues like Darth Kennedy and Darth iger to admit they failed miserably. Hollywood executive such as them will take credit for successes and find people to blame for failures... Unfortunately for Star Wars there aren't really that many people to blame, in theory you could blame Lucas for selling the franchise Darth Kennedy and Darth Eger for ruining it as well as Ryan Johnson and jar jar Abrams... Not many people for Hollywood execs to shift blame to. We need to get this disgusting communist ideology out of Hollywood and hopefully things will get better.
What does this even mean and how do you measure it? It’s the sort of phrase I see from those types who talk about Star Wars going “woke” because they dared to have a couple of key female characters…
It’s like Disney is making an office building, but the last 3 floors are so screwed up and disjointed from the rest of the building, they are scared to add more floors past the shaky mess they made.
That’s brilliant. Maybe 2/3 of it is terribly built, so the whole building is swaying in the slightest breeze and most clear-thinking people won’t even come near it.
Opening scene of Episode X: Luke wakes up abruptly out of a deep sleep, obviously disturbed. He turns to Mara, who also woke up, and says "You are not going to believe the nightmare I just had." Then we get to the business of what episodes VII-IX should have been, the Thrawn trilogy. You can even include some of the ST characters but this time well-written.
I mean that's because it takes place even before the OT and even Rogue One. It's still part of the same timeline as the sequels unless Disney decanonizes the sequel trilogy.
You know irony it’s that Andor uses lots of Sequel trilogy’s lore such as Canto Bight & other Sequel planets. So it means you can make great story with connections to sequels
I thought we were already on another timeline ever since Ezra pulled Ashoka into the world between worlds. In the timeline that Ashoka dies, we get the sequel trilogy. In the timeline where Ashoka lives, we get the Mandoverse.
@BK Beatty cool idea. In the alternate version , if Luke doesn't save them, they all die to the death troopers, and the first order rises basically unopposed, led by Darth Kathleen the Defiler
The theory is good and made sense, but in reality Kathleen Kennedy dont want to retcon the sequels. In a Interview Favreau told that Mandoverse is tied in the sequels it isnt a alternative timeline. Filoni love the sequels, the same with Pablo Hidalgo. Only the fans could make the things works. The first is boycott. The second is create fan materiais based in the EU (mods for games, animations, live actions) and ignores Disney until they retcon the sequels.
The moment the sequels starts showing up in mandalorian is the moment the ratings will start dropping. We all know where the road is going, but the hope for a detour is fading.
@@robertocaetano4945 Ppl are addicted. All of entertainment will be ruined by this fact. It's best to just let it go. Find a way to be entertained to the same extent by your real life. Ppl don't have the resolve to boycott.
"All roads lead to the SW sequels". This statement is so simple yet so important to the Star Wars franchise. It tells us the current state of what once was one of the biggest I.P.s in modern media, and how much Disney has poorly handled this the moment they had their hands on it. I love how after all these years we never get a follow up regarding the fate of Rey "Skywalker" and her Yellow/Gold Lightsaber. Disney definitely knows how bad they messed up the sequels, which is why most of whatever piece of Star Wars media they're releasing nowadays never moves beyond that moment when Rey buries Anakin's lightsaber in the sand (if there is a piece of media that contradicts this statement then Disney is definitely not doing their jop of promoting it), as if they're afraid to do anything more to damage the brand.
With how much Disney avoids the sequels in media and merchandise, they can't be blind to how the majority of people don't like it or aren't interested in it. They would have nothing to lose by redoing the sequels. It would heal the fanbase, they'd be able to print money essentially with all the merchandise they would move. It is a win win for everyone, if they do it with a well planned story that does the characters justice. They don't have to delete the sequels, they can be a seperate timeline or whatever, because there are those who enjoy them for some reason. But people would pay to see them done again, and done right. I know I would.
That sounds like a wonderful idea except for one problem we'd have to recast everybody including Luke Leia and Han... And apparently Disney thinks recasting people is one of the reasons solo failed. Oh my God you idiots, Fisher is dead, and Hamil and Ford are up there in age... A recast will have to come eventually.
Unfortunately I think they’re more likely gonna try and “enhance” the sequels by using other media to justify creative choices seen in them (e.g. Palpatine’s return with all the cloning threads) like how Clone Wars did for the prequels. What they don’t realize however is that the prequels DID have a good story, just bad execution.
George wanted the clone wars to eventually be more mature in tone. Not just in action, but he wanted Ashoka to find love (or lust) in season 7, and have her deal with a relationship giving echoes of leia and han’s relationship. Disney robbed us of that and much more so i’m afraid the “disney hole” is just too deep.
George Lucas deserves some blame here, for this not happening. Yes, he was lied to by Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy, when he signed the papers to hand Lucasfilm over to Disney. But he still felt it was okay to SELL STAR WARS TO ANOTHER PARTY! If we are going to hold people at fault, everyone needs to be blamed. Yes, even George Lucas. We wouldn't have these problems if Lucas simply held on to Star Wars in the first place.
@@chasehedges6775 And that's okay. Because in the end, Lucas was basically scammed, by Disney, out of what he wanted to see on the big screen. That's basically why I despise Kathleen Kennedy, because it was HER IDEA to throw out Lucas' story points, and go with her own. What a selfish move! It's why I have no sympathy for her at all (I don't think that anybody does). I'm just saying that Lucas deserves his share of responsibility. He did not have to sell Lucasfilm to Disney. But he did. I'm sure he regrets this, so that is all I'm going to say about it.
What do y’all think of the look of Ashoka? I feel like the makeup and prosthetics for whatever reason just don’t really work. It looks like cosplay instead of a different species. Hope they get it to look more convincing.
Look up Aayla secura, u can say the same thing about her. Ahsoka looks like dif species in Clone Wars cuz she has non human proportions.. but Aayla Secura in ROTS literally just looks like a human with blue paint on them. Maybe u can argue Aayla looks more Alien but thats cuz blue isnt a natural skin coloring. Live action Ahsoka is orange and white which is close to actual human skin color than blue.
The way Disney should retcon the Disney trilogy is to say it’s like the New Testament that was written by four different scribes. The Disney Trilogy was written by one of the Whills who got bad third hand accounts from cantina patrons who were drunk
I'd make everything Disney has done the Kathleen Universe and I'd bring back the Legends universe and return that to canon status whilst also mixing in current elements that can fit, or change them a little to fit. And maybe for a while I'd focus on either the far past (Like KOTOR) or far future.
I kind of would like to see a future where, since the Empire is gone the Alliance becomes the tyrannus one. Which leads to a wild west era of the systems. Each striving to do what it wants for its own governance. Breaking away from the monolithic governance.
That would be quite interesting. Instead of a one all powerful superpower ruling the galaxy each planet just governs themselves like they do in the real world.
I still like expanded universe way. Empire was too big to govern by new republic government, not to mention that some sectors actually thrived under imperial control and had decent moffs in charge. And with leadership of gilad pellaeon imperial remnant was created, which had many strengths of original empire in ideology while getting rid of some questionable moments like racism against non humans and slavery.
I honestly would like to see a series set 300 years post sequels. Considering they made deliberate attempts to kill off everyone who remembered the Republic except Chewbacca and Maz Canata I do not like their chances of making a New New Republic and Jedi Order. Since no one really knows anything it would make more sense the Galaxy would enter a feudal era and the Skywalker order would be really small and trying to promote peace and unity, but everyone sees them as this weird niche cult.
I think the best way for Star Wars to move forward is to move about a century into the future after the Rise of Skywalker, so you can think of it as a direct sequel to the OT if you want or a sequel to the sequel trilogy depending on what you think of the sequels.
Yes! That is what I have been saying for years. Like we all know the sequels were bad. They had some good ideas but overall, were just bad, especially the ending, where the galaxy is literally in worst shape then after the OT. But anything new, move like a century or more into the future. You can have references to the PT, OT, or ST, but for the most part, just something new. The enemy can be like the ancient sith return (thats my fanfiction story actually) or like some criminal empire grows to unimaginable heights, etc. But Star Wars is a massive universe, you can do anything.
This is certainly a possibility. It's a risk in its own way, since there'd be no connections with the TV shows, but there's definitely an argument that it may be less risky than a full retcon.
Caleb Star War's needs to go to the golden age of the galaxy via Old Republic (Legend's source material). That's a mythological goldmine that no other IP out there right now can contend with and Disney is ignoring it. Time to canonize (Legends) and finally start using this IP like it was meant to be used. Remember in Star War's we never saw the Sith Empire, nor the golden age of the Jedi, nor The Mandalorian Wars, nor the beginning of the Eternal Empire, etc ..etc. Why can't we get a Rogue Squadron Series? When there's amazing short fan films which have proven if executed/directed/written/made with passion could work. This isn't rocket science! People forget the blueprint was already laid by Lucas & Filoni via The Clone War's series. Lucasfilm's creatives need to structure future content around "benchmarks" in the vast BBY timeline that we never got to see. Even if it happens to be thousands of yrs in the past. So be it! Like Andor and The Clone War's did masterfully. Just fill in those gaps with new great characters but its essential to have competent writers whilst respecting the fan favorite characters & lore already during those epochs. Sadly, Lucasfilm waist opportunities creatively, like Willow. When literally no fans asked for it! Another project throwaway when you could of given the fans something they really wanted like a "Thrawn Chiss Ascendency series" with Timothy Zahn as the writer. That has zero connections to existing ST unpopular Disney nonsense.
We knew how the clone wars was gonna end since we saw it in Episode 3. Revenge of the Sith but that didn't stop the seven seasons of Clone Wars from being thrilling and exciting . I say it's all about content
Long answers ahead but still. I think there is a good possibility to "go around" the sequels my first hope or thought about this was the WBW and Ahsoka. A bit hoping she came to see what was about to happen, and therefore went to Luke to make sure he didn't follow that pattern by helping him. That way the sequels still can exist as what would happen if Ahsoka didn't enter the WBW. Then we could get a new version of the sequels, maybe reusing actors but the story goes in another direction. The other "easier" way is to just continue the Mandowerse and let it be about Thrawn as one of the big antagonist and maybe throw in Darth Talon. Let this take place in other parts of the galaxy and let us get a Thrawn trilogy as the final. It is after all only Luke (Jake) that is in the sequels So they just have to stay away from Exigol the Hosnian system Starkiller base and that salty planet, and they have a homerun
My hope is that the sequels are decanonized or just utterly ignored to the point it might as well be. Very doubtful though. It all seems to hinge on the Ahsoka show and how the world between worlds is utilized.
It is basically being ignored. I’m not aware of any stories being created around that timeline. As far as I know I don’t think they’re even making any comics or any recent books based around that time. Closest thing to that timeline is the mandalorian and to an extent book of boba fett. Everything else takes place between ep3 and ep4 or before episode 1 (acolyte). I guess there was resistance but I don’t think anything meaningful happened in that story and I don’t know if that’s even getting a second season. Edit: apparently star wars resistance had a second season. Still don’t know if it answered anything really
@@joeandrew8752 resistance doesn’t really count tbh. Barely anyone watched it. I was more concerned when Grogu “left” Luke in BOBF. To me it undermined the S2 finale of Mando and made it seem like the sequels were starting to connect as Ben was Luke’s first student, whereas if Grogu had stayed, he would’ve been his first student (I guess he still technically was). Idk, I’m just hoping for the best at this point.
@@mrk.8899 I mean yeah, not the best way to start S3 of Mando. I’m of the opinion the BoBF was so bad even I’m the eyes of Disney that they asked for S3 of mando be put in, so when S3 starts it won’t even have that beginning 2 episodes but starts off like S2 ending never even happened. Really diminishes the ending.
@@joeandrew8752 yeah exactly. But I’m sure they had to keep grogu with Mando due to toy sales and whatnot. And I’m just speculating with a cling of hope perhaps, but maybe it was also a decision on behalf of Filoni to make it go under the radar (not giving away the plans to discard the sequels). Perhaps they’ll show that Luke entrusted Grogu with a 3rd option.
"A long time ago, in a Galaxy far, far away." People have been subjected to so much dreck that they have forgotten (or never knew) the basis for all of what followed. A Galaxy is a big place. Billions of people and at least that many stories, along with even more history and lore. Fixing Star Wars involves the one thing that the greedy and the hacks fear the most. A completely new story. But that risks the merchandising empire that made Star Wars such a juggernaut when it got started. Disney bought the property for its merchandising potential. A new story means new characters. But if the story is no good, lots of toys wind up in landfills. This has already happened more than once and it has cemented the fear of originality because of the larger risk of the loss of profitability. Star Wars needs new stories and new more sweeping visions. It is hard to do when everyone is looking for a multi-billion dollar film with no risk .Star Wars needs new blood. People with new visions and differing imaginations as expressed in different artistic and story styles. But CHANGE is the last thing the money people want. The root problem is that in spite of what people with money think, even a nine figure salary will never buy so much as a single dram of true inspiration nor genuine talent.
Have someone, (Ahsoka, Ezra, etc), use the world-between-worlds to yank out Luke right as he vanished in TLJ, then retcon the events in RoSW, sparing Ben, and having him come to the light...
Hey Thor i agree with your idea I would ret con the whole sequel trilogy and have someone go into the world between worlds and just plain change it all
My God ... Imagine if the Ahsoka show resurrects the NJO! Cut out some of the few dumb things, and make the main themes of Sacrifice, Resilience and the seduction of the Dark side with a healthy dose of Yuuzhan Vong. Also the setting could be the outer rim or new Galaxy
The only path for Star Wars to continue and not become irrelevant is to retcon the sequels. They're just bad on a purely objective basis; they do not work, they make no sense they need to be discarded or they will completely sink the entire IP. Time is running out; those who are left will not stay forever if they do not genuinely address this in a very meaningful manner. I think in the short term probably the most that they could do is an official press release stating RJ will never again have anything to do with Star Wars ever and that TLJ is a problem that will be addressed. They keep saying that he is going to do another movie and if he does then I also think that would be a death blow to the IP as well. I certainly would let Disney know how I really feel; I would immediately cancel my Disney+ sub and never see another Disney movie again, no joke. I have already burnt Netflix and HBO over their IP abuse Disney isn't special and Amazon is on extremely thin ice.
Honestly with the way you explained it here, going to a different or adjacent galaxy sounds like the best thing I can hope for from Disney at this point
I honestly cant believe they haven't retconned the sequel trilogy yet. As time has moved us away from there releases, it's only become more and more obvious that this is what they need to do to fix things
I really did like how your fanfic had Ahsoka dying to vader, be the crux that saves grogu. It makes sense for an a-b-c timeloop. Feb 3rd has arrived! unless the forces will is 'evil', it really is the only way!
I really hope new stories don’t connect to them because I feel like no matter the quality people will just drop them because they connect to a trilogy that many people don’t like. Of course it’s ok to like them but at the same time it’s just as ok to not like them and I feel like that’s something Disney/Kennedy needs to hear…
Easy retcon, show either Luke or Ahsoka asleep, in a nightmare, scenes of episodes 7,8,9 going through their mind in dream forms. Have them wake up in a cold sweat, mutter to themselves, "My God, what a Nightmare, I am so glad none of that was real". Retcon achieved. Known as the Bobby Ewing save.
I do think you're onto something here thor, infact what believe is going on bts, Favreau & Filloni are still focusing on "deviating" away from the sequels; they've just learned another way to go about it since BOBF. Now that Bob Iger has returned (and he was the one who kept Kennedy away from interfering with their Mandalorian series), i think Iger is thinking in business terms - on one side Disney has their starwars theme park - "Galaxy's Edge" and their starwars hotel - "the Galactic star cruiser" which are both set within the sequels era; so Iger is aware they need somekind of spin-off stories, or movies set in arnd the sequel era, in order to keep those attractions popular and making money for them. So in this regard i think this is the only reason why Bob Iger has allowed Kathy Kennedy to make this new starwars movie set some short time after the sequel trilogy; because remember "the buck stops with Bob Iger" he said this, so Kennedy can green-lit all the shows she likes, but it's all down to Bob Iger if he agrees to give them the official go ahead and get put into production. So Iger is going to see if this Damon Lindelof starwars movie takes off big, so he and the other Disney execs can really look at the numbers, and see just how many "Star Wars FANS" turn out to see it; so basically it's really a way of determining just how big these - "Sequels Fans" truly are, cause Iger realized how big the Backlash became. Now, if this new Lindelof sequels based movie does not fly, if it's average-poorly received at the box-office, Iger then has a backup plan and that is - the magic team of Jon Favreau & Dave Filloni and there - MANDOVERSE, basically every spin-off show that branches out from the Mandalorian. One thing you have to realize about Dave Filloni is that if he wants a certain thing to go a certain way he will find a way to make that happen, sit back and simply wait patiently for things to unfold. Example of this is his beloved Ahsoka character. George Lucas always intended the character of Ahsoka to to be a supporting character through the clone wars series, and for her to die by the end. But because of Filloni's attachment to her, he did not want that to happen. So Filloni found a way to circumvent and prevent that from happening. this is why he came up with the whole World Between Worlds idea, as a way of preventing Ahsoka being killed off, and allowing her to hide in the shadows under the radar of the Empire, so that later on after those events of Lucas's Original trilogy, Dave Filloni could do something cool with the character. this is that point now. So IF Dave Filloni truly does not want to follow the sequels canon, he will just simply write a story-plot that will alternate, and deviate away from that particular direction, and he will do this under the radar of one Kathleen Kennedy, with the complete backing of Bob Iger, because Kathy Kennedy answers to him. this is why i believe Iger has allowed Kennedy her "sequels set movie", because he's not keeping all his eggs in one basket, he's making sure just in case this new movie flops (cause it's already divisive as half the fans want to move on now), he will have Jon & Dave's Mandoverse to go forward with, ofwhich it will "Deviate" away from the sequels canon. Favreau was sabotaged by Kennedy two times, once with the firing of Gina Carano leading his planned - "Rangers of the New Republic" series to get cancelled, and a second time with the "restructuring" of a third of his BOBF series, with episode 5 & 6 being dedicated purely to making sure Grogu ended up quickly back in the arms of Din Djarin, thus preventing anykind of "contradiction" to the sequels backstory of Ben Solo being Luke's first ever student. this is think cause Jon Favreau much frustration which is why he just took a big step away from that show and left it all to Robert Rodriguez in the end; remember Rodriguez even said that Favreau had'nt left him alot to work with, and he was mostly left to his own devices on that show. that's because Kennedy had interfered and Iger was not around to hold her back, and whatever story Favreau originally had, got drastically changed up. this is all proof that when Jon Favreau & Dave Filloni are left completely alone they create truly great Star Wars. And all these amateur directors, or atleast directors who dont have a vision, if they're not under the guidance of truely experienced "Creatives" like Favreau & Filloni, they screw up; case-in-point Deborah Chow with Kenobi, and Rob Rodriguez with BOBF.
The picture of filoni and Rosario Dawson as ahsoka is a ‘fix’ in the direction the sequels went. instead of putting dots on her face they went the practical route…sometimes you have to appreciate the small things
I personally think retconning the sequels out of universe (so just announcing they are no longer canon like they did with the EU) would be the better move for Disney. They are no longer restricted in any way by those movies but they could still take characters or ideas from them if they wanted. And I believe a lot of fans would still have issues with Luke's portrayal in TLJ even if the event that leads to that movie is erased from the timeline because they don't think Luke would ever turn out like that, regardless of what happened to him. Lastly they could just make a new Sequel Trilogy to replace the retconned one and make tons of money which would obviously be the main reason for retconning the sequels in the first place.
If they're going to keep giving movies to people like Johnson, Abrams, and (according to rumor) Lindelof, then it's a hard 'I say thee nay' from me. Lindelof is not someone who is in touch with what fans of a franchise want, and I'm not talking about traditional fan service, like the Hound fighting the Mountain. I'm talking about respecting legacy characters and giving those characters an actual - wait for it - legacy. Luke's new Jedi order - what happened to that? Han and Leia's family - what happened to them? We wanted our heroes to have a legacy, and now they've got bupkis. How is it that the original EU, for the most part, did it better? Highlander 2 was so bad that the studio attempted to re-edit it completely. When that didn't work, they just pretended it didn't exist, because it's a terrible movie. Halloween has rebooted twice already, the second time ignoring decades of bad-to-mediocre sequels (some that I still like, but whatever). Fans are forgiving, but only up to a certain point. The sequels are bad. Get rid of them. I would be fine if they just said, 'The sequels never happened in the new canon' - the end. Who cares about timelines and alternate realities - if they went that route, fine, but it doesn't even need to be that complicated. I work in customer service, and when one of my agents is dealing with a difficult customer, this is what I tell them: Make them go away. This translates to give them what they want so they will leave us alone and, maybe, buy from us again. That's the kind of service even a pleb like me can provide. What can I say? I must be some kind of genius or something.
Hey Thor, do you think Anakin redeeming Kylo Ren in TROS would've made more sense than the illusion of Han Solo? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
No. It was clumsily done, but the callback worked as the way of showing he has changed. At that point we've already been shown that Kylo is in denial about Anakin, so it would just be superfluous and convoluted.
I absolutely agree that the best way to fix the franchise is to path a new road that goes in a different direction than the sequels...there's always the risk when introducing "time travel" and "alternate timelines" in major franchises that you end up making things even even messier to the point where it's impossible to figure out what is even happening anymore. This is ultimately what "terminated" the Terminator franchise after all. They kept hitting the time-travel reset button so many times that it lost all meaning and impact, alienating the ENTIRE fan-base. So yes, having Ahsoka and/or Luke see a Force vision of the Sequels and thus deciding to try and change events COULD work...but it's a very treacherous road and has to be handled with utmost care.
I'm okay, if that ends up actually happening. Either way, I do believe that Filoni and Favreau are avoiding major parts of The ST, in their own original storytelling of The Mandalorian Saga. I'm sure and certain that Mr. George "The Maker" Lucas would have no issue with TWBW being used as a plot device to alter certain key events in the period 6 to 8 years prior to The Force Awakens; making it possible for more or much of his original concepts for his follow-up to The OT to be expressed and depicted in the main timeline.
@@chasehedges6775 I think George Lucas has been in talks with them, since 2018, about HOW to get things back on track. He's been their consultant/guru the whole time (he's the one who insisted that Grogu spend time with Luke, to gain enough training to be a believably powerful Force-user in the future...looking at you, Rey Palpatine), from TCW to Skeleton Crew (I'll bet Jon Watts, Chris Ford, Favreau, and Filoni have "zoomed" w/ GL at some point, over the last 6 months, about the overall narrative structure of the Mando Saga, and how it can move forward The SWU, independent of The ST).
It makes no sense at this juncture in the "Mandoverse" timeline to try desperately to connect to a ST that's 30 yrs later. Creatively, its an ill-advised move. Thus I like Filoni's approach creatively to venture away from the ST via (The New Beyond). Since we all know the Sequel Trilogy narrative is very unpopular. Not to mention Ahsoka, Din Jarin, Grogu, The Mandalorians, Ghost Crew, Thrawn etc aren't in them.
With Seasons 1 and 2 of The Mandalorian, it sure felt like Filoni and Faveau trying to quietly sneak in a soft reboot by making that whole story fit as well into the EU as in the Disney canon. But, based on what I've seen since, someone must have noticed and insisted on more Disney canon elements going forward.
(The) story... can only have one merit: ...making the audience want to know what happens next. And conversely, it can only have one fault: that of making the audience not want to know what happens next. -E.M. Forster
This sounds messy but I have a theory that could save the canon: Ahsoka, Ezra, & Grogu goes off and starts a new Light Side order in the unknown regions or a totally different galaxy. Rey starts opens small conclaves across the galaxy for her new 'Je'daii' Order, then comes into contact with Tho'Yor ships that take them to the new galaxy or new section of the Star Wars galaxy where they start a new Jedi order, with Xendor being the main antagonist. So its pulling elements from both Legends and Canon into a new timeline, this way they can also introduce Heroes and villains from Legends like Revan, Darth Traya, Nomi Sunrider, or the Sith Emperor into canon.
It all comes down to money. If Lucasfilm and Disney are convinced retconning the sequels or creating new timelines will make them more money then keeping the sequels, they’ll do it.
The way you fielded that spoiler warning for Asoka was perfect. Thx for doing that. If you're interested, I kept listening bc I'm down w star wars until something changes.
9:15 I don't think the world between worlds time travel works like that. In rebels when we think Ahsoka dies we didn't see her die, we see her battling Vader as the pyramid closes and assume Vader beats her but later we see that Ezra saved her by pulling her through the portal. I don't see this as changing history, this is what always happened we just didn't see it till later in the Ezras timeline. Ahsoka recognises this when she stops Ezra saving Kanan as saving him would have created a paradox because he wouldn't he wouldn't have been there to save them th-cam.com/video/eZCpv20L9RI/w-d-xo.html
The future is in the Unknown Regions. I mean it HAS TO BE! Come up with some reason for Ahsoka (and her band of merry men) to explore the Unknown Regions, discovering all sorts of odd places in that section of the unexplored galaxy, and even coming across threats that the wider Star Wars galaxy has no idea exists. At this point, the obstacle is imagination. Of which Dave Filoni, I'm certain, has plenty of. There's plenty of inspiration in the novels, and there's also plenty of room for brand new threats to rear their ugly heads. This is what I would do. It is time to make the "Unknown Regions" into the "Known Regions!"
Even though I love Mando, my excitement is always somewhat kept in check by the very real possibility that the show and its successors will ultimately tie in to movies I really want to forget about. I just know, if that happens, I will abandon SW for good and sell everything post-early 2014 I own.
I say it’s time to reset the episode 1-9 trilogy but set in the old republic. I’m one fan that believes the Episodic movies don’t only need to be Skywalker centered. Let the next family be Revan centered it can be KOTOR 1st trilogy is based on the 1st trilogy is based on the game!! 2nd trilogy is of Revan going after The emperor Darth vitiate then the Last is the games based with the eternal empire. With many series and anthology movies in between the movies
This would be my Star Wars dream slate ofc this would be under the supervision of Jon f and Dave f 1: jango fett mini series 2: book of boba fett season 2 with a much more dark tone 3: tales of the sith animated anthology in the style of sw clone wars 4: the adventures of Jedi master Luke sky walker after the events of rotj in the clone wars art style 5: a old republic Trilogy
I have said they have written themselves into a corner with the sequel trilogy they can go forward, and they are running out of rememberrys to use and more and more ppl are have the conversation about is star wars dead it not at the moment but its not far off it is on the downward spiral of diminishing returns and before anyone says anything about andor yes it was good and yes it did get a decent audience in the end but it should have been a massive show and it wasn't it did ok 10 to 15 years ago it would have been one of the biggest shows of the year that the damage that has been done to star wars
Unfortunately whether some will like it or not like it. The sequel trilogy is going to have to be retconned. Star Wars fans have a bigger base for the prequel, OT and EU as compared to the sequels. There were some, for example, that swore off Star Wars completely when Han Solo was lazily killed off in TFA. Others because there was never a proper reunion of the main OT cast…(Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie and Lando) together. A retcon is the only way. More people will spend lots more money for honey not vinegar. Which is what the sequel trilogy is. Lucasfilm gives the fanbase a remixed version of Heir to the Empire (Rebels thrown into the mix), and Star Wars will jump to the front of the Disney pantheon. Sadly (not really) a retcon is the only alternative.
While all roads lead to the sequels, the sequels world building was paper thin, with a lot of unexplained/unexplored areas. This leaves a lot of room to develop what the galaxy actually looks like in the ST, and what was going on in the rest of the galaxy at the same time those films were taking place. This is where I think the open endedness will come from for a lot of these shows. Like Mando S3 seems to be teasing a lot to do with Mandalore, but the ST never mentions it, so there's lots of room there I think for these characters stories to have an unknown future.
Honestly Thor, The Empire long ago stopped feeling like a giant nearly unstoppable juggernaut. It now just feels and looks like an over incompetent, useless and funny Saturday morning villain group than a evil Empire that ruled the galaxy with an iron fist. The problem is Disney has turned the Empire into a laughing stock.
@@TheVeritas1 That's the problem though only one show really showed off the terror they use to be in older works. Everywhere else they are incompetent.
@@chasehedges6775 He is serious both the rest of his crew were typical dumb stormtroopers slapstick, who could forget the speeder troopers who could not hit a close target.
I quite unique with my vision since im cool with the sequels, my idea would be to expand that story on, into a wide open and wild galaxy with factions of criminal syndicates trying to take the power vaccum left and the returned New Republic rising to stop them, Ben Solo's revival and road of redemption to the eyes of the galaxy, Finn and Jannah finding and assembling the first order stormtroopers to the Republican Army, Hux surviving like Fennec Shand did and then being an actual villain for Ben, Rey, Finn and the crew to face, And finally the rise of a heist cartel taking over the criminal game to the cause of ending the force believing it to the cause of all wars in galactic history and opressor of freedom, and the main crew on top are good people not bad guys, just to the New Republic.
Man, I mean, if only they had books and comics that mapped out the timeline post-RotJ up to 150 or so years later to adapt. It's mind boggling that a franchise as popular and beloved as Star Wars never had tie-in literature they could pull from for the Sequels.
Right now, they are just focusing on telling stories with good characters. They decided to toss out the EU to make way for the sequel trilogy, and Dave Filoni is trying to claw it back to where they can pick and choose the best bits of the EU. IMO they have a leadership issue. Filoni is not Feige. Filoni is the story teller, and he sees where it goes, but he is so passionate he is really hands on. Favreau is similar. They are makers. They can see the characters and stories, but wants to be hands on making it, and therefore can’t be putting together the bigger puzzle yet, or at least aren’t in a position to share it - thats Kennedy’s job. Kennedy doesn’t have that same vision and passion for where it all needs to go like Feige, rather she is just happy to be a part of it, and a bit more like a ‘free form’ manager right now, letting the creators create. I don’t know how much control Feige exerts, but I think it was quite a bit during Phase 1-3, and I feel like someone in Kennedy’s position needs to exert more control. The problem is when she did that in the past, she didn’t know where she was taking things because it wasn’t about a story to her. It wasn’t about looking at all the source materials and forming a story. It was just about making something new, for newness sake, and then making fan service for fan service sake. Need someone with Filoni’s passion and understanding of the story and characters, but in a position of vision and leading. Its not a job for Filoni though. He is a maker, and he won’t be happy if he’s not making and thats not fair to him. I don’t know if such a person exists.
In the current leadership at Lucasfilm, only Favreau has the Producer and Executive Producer experience needed to be a President. In fact, he's listed in the Top 20 Exec/Producers of the past decade. Remember Iron Man, Thor, Avengers, etc. Favreau IS THE GUY.
Hey Thor. Do you think that books like Thrawn should be adapted as movies? I would love to see and experience the world of the Chiss, but I am also afraid that the adaptations will render the books "obsolete" in a sense, similar to how the Ahsoka book has now been partially retconned multiple times. TLDR: What's your opinion about adapting existing star wars media?
Praying they go the world between world routes they really could revitalize the entire franchise/ fan base by cutting of the sequel dead meat especially in the way you recommended
The sequel trilogy hangs like the heaviest of anchors on top of the entire franchise - as long as it exists, your exploration of events before it have to suit something that is so broken the only way to repair it is to throw it out.
Maybe, that's part of it. By saving Ahsoka, it's possible for she, Ezra, and whomever else (Luke? Anakin?), to alter the dynamics of the future, 20-something years down the line.
Exactly, just do something that change the future of Star wars and then just follow the mcu formula from the Mandalorian timeline going forward in time with Luke, Ahsoka, Mando, bo Katan, Ezra, Boba Fett, Thrawn etc... Where we have no clue what will happen to them
There's 30 years between ROTJ and TFA. There are plenty of stories to tell! And hey perhaps an animated series can improve (retcon) our perception of the Sequels. I mean The Clone Wars fixed the shitshow that the Prequels were (are)... at least for generations younger than X.
Since Disney has made me so cynical about Star Wars over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if they remade Lucas's movies so they could fall in line with their sequel trilogy. I think that's more likely than a retcon ever would be. I don't believe Filoni or Favreau would do this, but I could see Corporate Executives getting this "brilliant idea" to update Star Wars for a modern audience. Just my cynical take. I will always love Lucas's Star Wars. That's my childhood and a big part of my identity. But that era ended when Lucas sold to Disney, I just didn't know it then. Disney burned their bridges. Rebuilding them seems almost pointless at this point, because many of us got tired of waiting, left, and found a different path. For example, I've heard Andor is good. But I just haven't been motivated enough to pay a months worth for Disney +, or felt like carving out time to watch it, which kind of surprises me. Disney hurt me really bad, I'm not sure it's really worth opening that wound again.
Well they should be allowed to rebuild those bridges and should be allowed to win you back. There will be no sabotage or trickery from that apathy of yours.
Remake the whole saga - including the OT. Clean up some of the conveniences and inconsistencies, give the awesome villains their due. Expand the time before EP1 and explain Maul/Grevious/Dooku, give them more to do, don't kill them off so quickly. Explain more about Palp's plan. Clean up Anakin's characterization, romance (if present), and fall so that it makes more sense to more people and has better dialogue. Have Ahsoka incorporated in the Saga. Clean up the conveniences and inconsistencies of the OT like the incest. Where the prequels need some fleshing out and cleaning up, the sequels just need a complete rewrite - the world building doesn't even make sense. All along the way, incorporate spin-offs and other stories to add to the galaxy, but not necessarily connect as heavily as something like the MCU.
Hey Thor, What do you think would have happened to the saga if Anakin Skywalker would have returned to Tatooine and rescued his mother long before she died?
Looking at the Marvel slate, I'm grateful Star Wars doesn't have something like that. Imagine a year with the Acolyte, Lindelof's movie, Jenkins' movie, and another subpar Kenobi season....
They should play a "Big Trouble in Little China" card and just tell a good story that isn't actually connected to anything else. Granted, the chances of them putting together a good story are slim enough, let alone one that doesn't connect to anything else. Also +1 for retconning the sequels.
absolutely, the sequel trilogy is the biggest problem for star wars. as a more-than-casual-but-far-from-super-deep fan, i'd be okay with a solution that partially alters history, making use of the world between worlds and other means. but please, no more resurrections of dead characters who should stay dead.
It’s astonishing to me that LucasFilm feels beholden to a trilogy that had progressively worse box office results as the trilogy went along, to the point where the third film made HALF of the revenue of the first film. Just…. abandon it completely and create a new timeline. Why is this so hard to understand?
It feels like they are setting up a lot of new ideas for a side story that is open ended with characters that don’t show up in the sequels. Sure we know about the main OT characters and the portion of the Empire the became the First Order the Palpatine. With all the Faloni/Favaro/Legends created characters they can have a complete unknown ending story within the timeline. I think they will tell both stories. How the side story intertwines with the main saga story yet tells its own story we don’t know the end too.
Just make the sequel Legends and move on. Regardless, they will always have to skirt an actual followup for the original trilogy characters because they already pissed that all away. That's ultimately the real shame of the sequel trilogy. They had one shot to get Ford, Mayhew, Fisher, and Hamill together to wrap it up and start a new thing and they squandered it.
In a "retcon" scenario, I imagine they could have a moment where Ahsoka more or less see's a vision of the future if she fails to stop Thrawn. In a marathon, this vision of the future would be where a viewer would watch the Sequels. Let's be real, the formation of the First Order and complete destruction of the New Republic is absolutely a dark timeline. Working out in the end or not wouldn't give peace to any logical thinking being, and someone like Ahsoka and Ezra would want to prevent that. After the defeat of Thrawn and the halting of the First Order and Palpatine's return, you have Ahsoka find Palpatine's clone, who has since started his family and has discovered his daughter Rey to be force sensitive. She would offer to train Rey. Have Ezra do the same with Finn. And with that and Luke's Jedi order, the future of the Jedi is secured and the road ahead of us unknown but exciting to discover.
At this point is would be probably a good idea to make a new sequal trilogy at least 300 years in the future. You are free in a sense from what happend before and at the same time its still there but a past that cant be touched anymore.
This has been my thought since TROS was released. Either go far enough back in time that the decisions by the characters would not impact directly on the existing story or far enough forward that nothing in the established story matters and you have a clean slate, new republic, new schools of thought on the relationship the force and the force sensitive etc. The High Republic is still far too close for comfort.
4 steps to heal the Star Wars franchise: 1. Decanonize the sequels. 2. Decanonize the resistance series. 3. Decanonize Soylo a Star Wars failure. 4. Stop announcing Star Wars movies and series just to have them cancelled later.
CRAZY HYPOTHESIS: Thrawn and Ezra were taken to the neighbour galaxy and Ahsoka goes there to find them. When she gets there it seems familiar because it is almost identical to the galaxy she is from. Except in this galaxy she was killed by Vader. They all stay in that galaxy because it is better. That way the ''sequels'' can remain canon while also getting something new and better. And yes, i know this is essentially the same as having another universe/timeline, but it is at least a little different.
But If we give such importance to Ezra and Ahsoka, the sequels is already doomed. We need Luke Skywalker series, based in EU. Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, New Jedi Order and etc... Not a Ahsoka show. Disney is using her to make us to forget the importance of Luke Skywalker.
Your idea of fixing Star Wars is a valid one. And that the sequel trilogy still exists, but as an alternative reality , while the Asoka series can potentially create a new , better star wars moving forward
If Star Wars wants people to be invested again they need to take the story into a new era. One where the events don’t line up or lead to anything associated with the time from the end of episode 6 to the end of episode 9. They can’t keep telling stories between episode 6 & 7 forever and they can’t write any stories between Sequel trilogies without heavily scratching the bottom of the barrel. And not alot of people want or will care about stories that take place after 9 even if they do everything right because of the way episode 9 ended in the exact same circumstances as episode 6 people will be pissed and feel cheated about not getting that in the first place with the sequel trilogy such as Luke/Ray rebuilding the Jedi era or Leia/Poe rebuilding the republic. If they can’t/won’t undo the events of the sequels than the stories being told going forward need to associate themselves as far away from them in the future by either being stories in the distant past (origin of Jedi & Sith order) or distant future (stories about major threats and ordeals in the galaxy)
Anything that leads or has anything to do with the Sequels is not canon for me. They should have used Lucas's story treatments and maybe modified them a little, maybe let Dave and Favrue do the 3 last movies, it would be awesome if we get those Sequels like I just said, like an extra Sequel for the try hard fans of SW and George Lucas.
I think they should keep Finn, Poe and Kylo (he needs a massive rework though) because they are fundamentally good characters and have a lot of growth potential. I think they can afford to cut literally everyone else from the sequels, including Rey. Or introduce her as a villain at first at the very least. I always thought it would have made a lot more sense if Kylo was the one to attack Luke after receiving visions from Snoke. Just a few tweaks like that and a more competent writing team and they could be legitimately good.
The damage is done- we've all seen the Sequel Trilogy & know it exists, and had a bad experience. So it doesn't matter if they retcon, decanonize- whatever. Many have formed an opinion of "Disney Star Wars" and it can't be fixed.
Even if such a miracle were to occur, you would have to deal with the fans who are more than fine with the status quo, and those who are disillusioned and have sworn off Star Wars altogether.
I would love to see Disney allow the EU to be made into movies, series, animation, etc. They can call it the Legends Series. I know it won't happen because if those shows were loyal to the novels and graphic novels from Dark Horse, they would generate a fan base that would rival the sequels and everything that Filoni, Favreau or Kennedy made. Disney would double or triple their profit and harvest a new following of loyal fans. How do I know this? Look at the profits Disney has reaped from rereleasing these titles. The old Dark Horse stories are putting the new Marvel stories to shame. This is unsurprising because Dark Horse gave its authors and artists freedoms that Marvel would NEVER grant its creators. Disney is passing up a major market opportunity. Why?? This move doesn't make sense for a company focusing on profits to make....unless they were following an agenda instead of profits.
In my own head I routinely forget the sequel trilogy, so when I get excited for the mandalorian, there's always that dampening moment when I remember that they are going to have to tie everything to a terrible story.
Andor and Mandalorian proved that you can DO Star Wars well.
Yep same haha
What sequel trilogy? Are you talking about these new Star Wars shows that happen after return of the Jedi? Mandalorian season 1, 2 and book of boba fett? Kinda silly to call it a trilogy but hey why not
Same, I've said it since the beginning if they tie mando to the sequels it'll go up in flames faster than GoT. It's sad really since it's been one of the few good pieces of SW we've gotten under Disney.
@@danzansandeev6033 don't include Book of Boba with Mando lmao
Two universes:
1) Ezra didn't pull Ahsoka from the World Between Worlds, somehow leading to the story of the Sequel Trilogy where Luke abandons the galaxy and his sister and becomes a hermit, and the galaxy falls apart.
2) Ezra DID pull Ahsoka from the Word Between Worlds. The movie after Return of the Jedi picks up right after the Battle of Endor. Somewhat resembles Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" best selling book trilogy. Ahsoka lends moral support to Luke and he never abandons the galaxy. Thrawn is the new antagonist.
Looks like it would rock the socks off the disgusting Sequels
Yes. All the yes.
That would actually work out pretty well. Considering I never finished Rebels at the time because of The Last Jedi, I wonder if Dave already saw the writing on the wall and introduced the World Between Worlds as a potential retcon device.
Many franchises do this so why not.
It's a known Doomcock theory that Filoni and Favrau want to retcon the sequels with "the world between worlds", but seeing how Luke let Grogu go (to fit the sequels, no less), they will all lead back to the Disney trilogy and it's egg on our faces once again.
Don't get me wrong. My heart is with you. Ever since The Rise of Skywalker I've been saying: retcon the sequels, make an animated trilogy or series about the old gang squaring off against Thrawn in a Heir to the Empire adaptation (and there's plenty to retcon in Heir to the Empire). Adding Ezra and Ahsoka to the mix wouldn't be perfect but I'll take it. But Disney is Disney. They kept Kathleen Kennedy hired, they re-hired Bob Iger, who ultimately designed the Disney downfall of the last decade. They will double, triple, quadruple, quintuple down until the only people watching is the "consume the product" crowd.
That's be genius
The sequels haven’t really left their mark on pop culture memory so avoiding them altogether seems like it would be easy to do.
If u don’t count memes the prequels haven’t left a mark on pop culture memory either. The Star Wars trilogy would be referenced in other films, tv shows, and cartoons.
@@jeremyfields9009 gotta disagree with you there
Unfortunately it is impossible to get leftist ideologues like Darth Kennedy and Darth iger to admit they failed miserably. Hollywood executive such as them will take credit for successes and find people to blame for failures... Unfortunately for Star Wars there aren't really that many people to blame, in theory you could blame Lucas for selling the franchise Darth Kennedy and Darth Eger for ruining it as well as Ryan Johnson and jar jar Abrams... Not many people for Hollywood execs to shift blame to. We need to get this disgusting communist ideology out of Hollywood and hopefully things will get better.
@@jeremyfields9009 I’d argue memes are pretty integral to pop culture at this point
What does this even mean and how do you measure it? It’s the sort of phrase I see from those types who talk about Star Wars going “woke” because they dared to have a couple of key female characters…
the closer we get back to sequels with Mando, the ore painful it will be
The more we get stuff like Andor and Mandalorian and the more passionate creative people are, the better things will be
@@chasehedges6775 as long as people keep watching and talking about it, things won’t get better …
Thats why i quit Disney Star Wars for good.
Only EU matters to me.
@@robertocaetano4945 the same with me. As for the Future of Star Wars I’m done. I’ve moved on to Godzilla etc …
@@treystephens6166 True
It’s like Disney is making an office building, but the last 3 floors are so screwed up and disjointed from the rest of the building, they are scared to add more floors past the shaky mess they made.
Lol very good analogy
That’s brilliant. Maybe 2/3 of it is terribly built, so the whole building is swaying in the slightest breeze and most clear-thinking people won’t even come near it.
Opening scene of Episode X: Luke wakes up abruptly out of a deep sleep, obviously disturbed. He turns to Mara, who also woke up, and says "You are not going to believe the nightmare I just had."
Then we get to the business of what episodes VII-IX should have been, the Thrawn trilogy. You can even include some of the ST characters but this time well-written.
Andor proved that you could make a good story WITHOUT connecting to sequels trilogy and respecting the OT and PT.
Never thought it was amazing, but I believe that to be true. It held its own.
I mean that's because it takes place even before the OT and even Rogue One. It's still part of the same timeline as the sequels unless Disney decanonizes the sequel trilogy.
@@matthewk4912 I’ll just pretend the sequels don’t exist.
You know irony it’s that Andor uses lots of Sequel trilogy’s lore such as Canto Bight & other Sequel planets. So it means you can make great story with connections to sequels
@@zigurdur92At least we can sort pretend those places just exist in the SW universe and still ignore the sequels
I thought we were already on another timeline ever since Ezra pulled Ashoka into the world between worlds. In the timeline that Ashoka dies, we get the sequel trilogy. In the timeline where Ashoka lives, we get the Mandoverse.
@@bkbeatty6087 Yeah, since the doctor who worked on Grogu was connected in some way to the creation of Snoke and the other clones of Palpatine.
LostSol exactly! The World Between Worlds already explains why Ahsoka isn't in the ST. Niether is Grogu, The Mandalorians, Din Jarin, Thrawn, etc.
@BK Beatty It's not. It's just a theory.
@BK Beatty cool idea. In the alternate version , if Luke doesn't save them, they all die to the death troopers, and the first order rises basically unopposed, led by Darth Kathleen the Defiler
The theory is good and made sense, but in reality Kathleen Kennedy dont want to retcon the sequels. In a Interview Favreau told that Mandoverse is tied in the sequels it isnt a alternative timeline. Filoni love the sequels, the same with Pablo Hidalgo.
Only the fans could make the things works.
The first is boycott. The second is create fan materiais based in the EU (mods for games, animations, live actions) and ignores Disney until they retcon the sequels.
The moment the sequels starts showing up in mandalorian is the moment the ratings will start dropping.
We all know where the road is going, but the hope for a detour is fading.
Thats why the fans needs to boycott Disney and stop to give money and attention.
We need to create fan materiais based in EU and ignores Disney.
@@robertocaetano4945
Ppl are addicted. All of entertainment will be ruined by this fact. It's best to just let it go. Find a way to be entertained to the same extent by your real life. Ppl don't have the resolve to boycott.
Its like we are running into a canyon and the best that we can do is to try and slow down this car
"All roads lead to the SW sequels". This statement is so simple yet so important to the Star Wars franchise. It tells us the current state of what once was one of the biggest I.P.s in modern media, and how much Disney has poorly handled this the moment they had their hands on it.
I love how after all these years we never get a follow up regarding the fate of Rey "Skywalker" and her Yellow/Gold Lightsaber. Disney definitely knows how bad they messed up the sequels, which is why most of whatever piece of Star Wars media they're releasing nowadays never moves beyond that moment when Rey buries Anakin's lightsaber in the sand (if there is a piece of media that contradicts this statement then Disney is definitely not doing their jop of promoting it), as if they're afraid to do anything more to damage the brand.
With how much Disney avoids the sequels in media and merchandise, they can't be blind to how the majority of people don't like it or aren't interested in it. They would have nothing to lose by redoing the sequels. It would heal the fanbase, they'd be able to print money essentially with all the merchandise they would move. It is a win win for everyone, if they do it with a well planned story that does the characters justice. They don't have to delete the sequels, they can be a seperate timeline or whatever, because there are those who enjoy them for some reason. But people would pay to see them done again, and done right. I know I would.
So kinda like Mortal Kombat 9 where things went to shit and they rebooted the timeline?
That sounds like a wonderful idea except for one problem we'd have to recast everybody including Luke Leia and Han... And apparently Disney thinks recasting people is one of the reasons solo failed. Oh my God you idiots, Fisher is dead, and Hamil and Ford are up there in age... A recast will have to come eventually.
Amen
@@marknystrom1984 than make sequels without Han and Leia 🤷♂️
Unfortunately I think they’re more likely gonna try and “enhance” the sequels by using other media to justify creative choices seen in them (e.g. Palpatine’s return with all the cloning threads) like how Clone Wars did for the prequels.
What they don’t realize however is that the prequels DID have a good story, just bad execution.
Darth Kennedy, the Disastrous. That's a good one.
George wanted the clone wars to eventually be more mature in tone. Not just in action, but he wanted Ashoka to find love (or lust) in season 7, and have her deal with a relationship giving echoes of leia and han’s relationship. Disney robbed us of that and much more so i’m afraid the “disney hole” is just too deep.
Oh yeah, forgot that was originally going to happen in The Clone Wars.
George Lucas deserves some blame here, for this not happening. Yes, he was lied to by Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy, when he signed the papers to hand Lucasfilm over to Disney. But he still felt it was okay to SELL STAR WARS TO ANOTHER PARTY! If we are going to hold people at fault, everyone needs to be blamed. Yes, even George Lucas. We wouldn't have these problems if Lucas simply held on to Star Wars in the first place.
@@jacob4920 Good point but I feel still feel bad for Lucas all the same.
@@chasehedges6775 And that's okay. Because in the end, Lucas was basically scammed, by Disney, out of what he wanted to see on the big screen. That's basically why I despise Kathleen Kennedy, because it was HER IDEA to throw out Lucas' story points, and go with her own. What a selfish move! It's why I have no sympathy for her at all (I don't think that anybody does).
I'm just saying that Lucas deserves his share of responsibility. He did not have to sell Lucasfilm to Disney. But he did. I'm sure he regrets this, so that is all I'm going to say about it.
Retconning the sequels will be painful at first but is ultimately good for the long run
What do y’all think of the look of Ashoka? I feel like the makeup and prosthetics for whatever reason just don’t really work. It looks like cosplay instead of a different species. Hope they get it to look more convincing.
Look up Aayla secura, u can say the same thing about her.
Ahsoka looks like dif species in Clone Wars cuz she has non human proportions.. but Aayla Secura in ROTS literally just looks like a human with blue paint on them.
Maybe u can argue Aayla looks more Alien but thats cuz blue isnt a natural skin coloring. Live action Ahsoka is orange and white which is close to actual human skin color than blue.
I've actually seen cosplayers do a much better job with ahsoka. Disney just doesn't care.
The way Disney should retcon the Disney trilogy is to say it’s like the New Testament that was written by four different scribes. The Disney Trilogy was written by one of the Whills who got bad third hand accounts from cantina patrons who were drunk
I'd make everything Disney has done the Kathleen Universe and I'd bring back the Legends universe and return that to canon status whilst also mixing in current elements that can fit, or change them a little to fit. And maybe for a while I'd focus on either the far past (Like KOTOR) or far future.
I kind of would like to see a future where, since the Empire is gone the Alliance becomes the tyrannus one. Which leads to a wild west era of the systems. Each striving to do what it wants for its own governance. Breaking away from the monolithic governance.
That would be quite interesting. Instead of a one all powerful superpower ruling the galaxy each planet just governs themselves like they do in the real world.
I still like expanded universe way. Empire was too big to govern by new republic government, not to mention that some sectors actually thrived under imperial control and had decent moffs in charge. And with leadership of gilad pellaeon imperial remnant was created, which had many strengths of original empire in ideology while getting rid of some questionable moments like racism against non humans and slavery.
I honestly would like to see a series set 300 years post sequels. Considering they made deliberate attempts to kill off everyone who remembered the Republic except Chewbacca and Maz Canata I do not like their chances of making a New New Republic and Jedi Order. Since no one really knows anything it would make more sense the Galaxy would enter a feudal era and the Skywalker order would be really small and trying to promote peace and unity, but everyone sees them as this weird niche cult.
Your idea is SO GOOD at 8:52. THAT IS SO BRILLIANT
I think the best way for Star Wars to move forward is to move about a century into the future after the Rise of Skywalker, so you can think of it as a direct sequel to the OT if you want or a sequel to the sequel trilogy depending on what you think of the sequels.
That's honestly a pretty good idea
Only way to get around them, but they never will because they will not be able to include all the member berries
Yes! That is what I have been saying for years. Like we all know the sequels were bad. They had some good ideas but overall, were just bad, especially the ending, where the galaxy is literally in worst shape then after the OT. But anything new, move like a century or more into the future. You can have references to the PT, OT, or ST, but for the most part, just something new. The enemy can be like the ancient sith return (thats my fanfiction story actually) or like some criminal empire grows to unimaginable heights, etc. But Star Wars is a massive universe, you can do anything.
This is certainly a possibility. It's a risk in its own way, since there'd be no connections with the TV shows, but there's definitely an argument that it may be less risky than a full retcon.
Caleb Star War's needs to go to the golden age of the galaxy via Old Republic (Legend's source material). That's a mythological goldmine that no other IP out there right now can contend with and Disney is ignoring it. Time to canonize (Legends) and finally start using this IP like it was meant to be used. Remember in Star War's we never saw the Sith Empire, nor the golden age of the Jedi, nor The Mandalorian Wars, nor the beginning of the Eternal Empire, etc ..etc. Why can't we get a Rogue Squadron Series? When there's amazing short fan films which have proven if executed/directed/written/made with passion could work. This isn't rocket science!
People forget the blueprint was already laid by Lucas & Filoni via The Clone War's series. Lucasfilm's creatives need to structure future content around "benchmarks" in the vast BBY timeline that we never got to see. Even if it happens to be thousands of yrs in the past. So be it! Like Andor and The Clone War's did masterfully. Just fill in those gaps with new great characters but its essential to have competent writers whilst respecting the fan favorite characters & lore already during those epochs.
Sadly, Lucasfilm waist opportunities creatively, like Willow. When literally no fans asked for it! Another project throwaway when you could of given the fans something they really wanted like a "Thrawn Chiss Ascendency series" with Timothy Zahn as the writer. That has zero connections to existing ST unpopular Disney nonsense.
We knew how the clone wars was gonna end since we saw it in Episode 3. Revenge of the Sith but that didn't stop the seven seasons of Clone Wars from being thrilling and exciting . I say it's all about content
Long answers ahead but still. I think there is a good possibility to "go around" the sequels my first hope or thought about this was the WBW and Ahsoka. A bit hoping she came to see what was about to happen, and therefore went to Luke to make sure he didn't follow that pattern by helping him. That way the sequels still can exist as what would happen if Ahsoka didn't enter the WBW. Then we could get a new version of the sequels, maybe reusing actors but the story goes in another direction.
The other "easier" way is to just continue the Mandowerse and let it be about Thrawn as one of the big antagonist and maybe throw in Darth Talon. Let this take place in other parts of the galaxy and let us get a Thrawn trilogy as the final.
It is after all only Luke (Jake) that is in the sequels So they just have to stay away from Exigol the Hosnian system Starkiller base and that salty planet, and they have a homerun
My hope is that the sequels are decanonized or just utterly ignored to the point it might as well be. Very doubtful though. It all seems to hinge on the Ahsoka show and how the world between worlds is utilized.
It is basically being ignored. I’m not aware of any stories being created around that timeline. As far as I know I don’t think they’re even making any comics or any recent books based around that time. Closest thing to that timeline is the mandalorian and to an extent book of boba fett. Everything else takes place between ep3 and ep4 or before episode 1 (acolyte). I guess there was resistance but I don’t think anything meaningful happened in that story and I don’t know if that’s even getting a second season.
Edit: apparently star wars resistance had a second season. Still don’t know if it answered anything really
@@joeandrew8752 resistance doesn’t really count tbh. Barely anyone watched it. I was more concerned when Grogu “left” Luke in BOBF. To me it undermined the S2 finale of Mando and made it seem like the sequels were starting to connect as Ben was Luke’s first student, whereas if Grogu had stayed, he would’ve been his first student (I guess he still technically was). Idk, I’m just hoping for the best at this point.
@@mrk.8899 I mean yeah, not the best way to start S3 of Mando. I’m of the opinion the BoBF was so bad even I’m the eyes of Disney that they asked for S3 of mando be put in, so when S3 starts it won’t even have that beginning 2 episodes but starts off like S2 ending never even happened. Really diminishes the ending.
@@joeandrew8752 yeah exactly. But I’m sure they had to keep grogu with Mando due to toy sales and whatnot. And I’m just speculating with a cling of hope perhaps, but maybe it was also a decision on behalf of Filoni to make it go under the radar (not giving away the plans to discard the sequels). Perhaps they’ll show that Luke entrusted Grogu with a 3rd option.
"A long time ago, in a Galaxy far, far away." People have been subjected to so much dreck that they have forgotten (or never knew) the basis for all of what followed. A Galaxy is a big place. Billions of people and at least that many stories, along with even more history and lore. Fixing Star Wars involves the one thing that the greedy and the hacks fear the most. A completely new story. But that risks the merchandising empire that made Star Wars such a juggernaut when it got started. Disney bought the property for its merchandising potential. A new story means new characters. But if the story is no good, lots of toys wind up in landfills. This has already happened more than once and it has cemented the fear of originality because of the larger risk of the loss of profitability. Star Wars needs new stories and new more sweeping visions. It is hard to do when everyone is looking for a multi-billion dollar film with no risk .Star Wars needs new blood. People with new visions and differing imaginations as expressed in different artistic and story styles. But CHANGE is the last thing the money people want. The root problem is that in spite of what people with money think, even a nine figure salary will never buy so much as a single dram of true inspiration nor genuine talent.
Have someone, (Ahsoka, Ezra, etc), use the world-between-worlds to yank out Luke right as he vanished in TLJ, then retcon the events in RoSW, sparing Ben, and having him come to the light...
That sounds interesting and _reeallly_ complicated.
No need to retcon the sequels "in universe". Just write them out of existence like Edward Norton's Hulk.
Totally agree and I totally forgot that Edward Norton Hulk was a thing.
Hey Thor i agree with your idea I would ret con the whole sequel trilogy and have someone go into the world between worlds and just plain change it all
My God ... Imagine if the Ahsoka show resurrects the NJO! Cut out some of the few dumb things, and make the main themes of Sacrifice, Resilience and the seduction of the Dark side with a healthy dose of Yuuzhan Vong. Also the setting could be the outer rim or new Galaxy
The only path for Star Wars to continue and not become irrelevant is to retcon the sequels. They're just bad on a purely objective basis; they do not work, they make no sense they need to be discarded or they will completely sink the entire IP. Time is running out; those who are left will not stay forever if they do not genuinely address this in a very meaningful manner. I think in the short term probably the most that they could do is an official press release stating RJ will never again have anything to do with Star Wars ever and that TLJ is a problem that will be addressed. They keep saying that he is going to do another movie and if he does then I also think that would be a death blow to the IP as well. I certainly would let Disney know how I really feel; I would immediately cancel my Disney+ sub and never see another Disney movie again, no joke. I have already burnt Netflix and HBO over their IP abuse Disney isn't special and Amazon is on extremely thin ice.
Honestly with the way you explained it here, going to a different or adjacent galaxy sounds like the best thing I can hope for from Disney at this point
I honestly cant believe they haven't retconned the sequel trilogy yet. As time has moved us away from there releases, it's only become more and more obvious that this is what they need to do to fix things
Disney should officially de-canonize the sequels. It will open up so much possibility.
I really did like how your fanfic had Ahsoka dying to vader, be the crux that saves grogu. It makes sense for an a-b-c timeloop. Feb 3rd has arrived! unless the forces will is 'evil', it really is the only way!
I really hope new stories don’t connect to them because I feel like no matter the quality people will just drop them because they connect to a trilogy that many people don’t like. Of course it’s ok to like them but at the same time it’s just as ok to not like them and I feel like that’s something Disney/Kennedy needs to hear…
As Doc Brown once said (ironically Christopher Lloyd will be in the Mandalorian season 3): ... where we're going we don't need... roads. #NotMySequels
Love that line.
That's one of those great lines I quote all the time. Just ask Naboo.
Easy retcon, show either Luke or Ahsoka asleep, in a nightmare, scenes of episodes 7,8,9 going through their mind in dream forms. Have them wake up in a cold sweat, mutter to themselves, "My God, what a Nightmare, I am so glad none of that was real". Retcon achieved. Known as the Bobby Ewing save.
I do think you're onto something here thor, infact what believe is going on bts, Favreau & Filloni are still focusing on "deviating" away from the sequels; they've just learned another way to go about it since BOBF. Now that Bob Iger has returned (and he was the one who kept Kennedy away from interfering with their Mandalorian series), i think Iger is thinking in business terms - on one side Disney has their starwars theme park - "Galaxy's Edge" and their starwars hotel - "the Galactic star cruiser" which are both set within the sequels era; so Iger is aware they need somekind of spin-off stories, or movies set in arnd the sequel era, in order to keep those attractions popular and making money for them.
So in this regard i think this is the only reason why Bob Iger has allowed Kathy Kennedy to make this new starwars movie set some short time after the sequel trilogy; because remember "the buck stops with Bob Iger" he said this, so Kennedy can green-lit all the shows she likes, but it's all down to Bob Iger if he agrees to give them the official go ahead and get put into production. So Iger is going to see if this Damon Lindelof starwars movie takes off big, so he and the other Disney execs can really look at the numbers, and see just how many "Star Wars FANS" turn out to see it; so basically it's really a way of determining just how big these - "Sequels Fans" truly are, cause Iger realized how big the Backlash became.
Now, if this new Lindelof sequels based movie does not fly, if it's average-poorly received at the box-office, Iger then has a backup plan and that is - the magic team of Jon Favreau & Dave Filloni and there - MANDOVERSE, basically every spin-off show that branches out from the Mandalorian.
One thing you have to realize about Dave Filloni is that if he wants a certain thing to go a certain way he will find a way to make that happen, sit back and simply wait patiently for things to unfold. Example of this is his beloved Ahsoka character. George Lucas always intended the character of Ahsoka to to be a supporting character through the clone wars series, and for her to die by the end. But because of Filloni's attachment to her, he did not want that to happen. So Filloni found a way to circumvent and prevent that from happening. this is why he came up with the whole World Between Worlds idea, as a way of preventing Ahsoka being killed off, and allowing her to hide in the shadows under the radar of the Empire, so that later on after those events of Lucas's Original trilogy, Dave Filloni could do something cool with the character. this is that point now.
So IF Dave Filloni truly does not want to follow the sequels canon, he will just simply write a story-plot that will alternate, and deviate away from that particular direction, and he will do this under the radar of one Kathleen Kennedy, with the complete backing of Bob Iger, because Kathy Kennedy answers to him. this is why i believe Iger has allowed Kennedy her "sequels set movie", because he's not keeping all his eggs in one basket, he's making sure just in case this new movie flops (cause it's already divisive as half the fans want to move on now), he will have Jon & Dave's Mandoverse to go forward with, ofwhich it will "Deviate" away from the sequels canon.
Favreau was sabotaged by Kennedy two times, once with the firing of Gina Carano leading his planned - "Rangers of the New Republic" series to get cancelled, and a second time with the "restructuring" of a third of his BOBF series, with episode 5 & 6 being dedicated purely to making sure Grogu ended up quickly back in the arms of Din Djarin, thus preventing anykind of "contradiction" to the sequels backstory of Ben Solo being Luke's first ever student. this is think cause Jon Favreau much frustration which is why he just took a big step away from that show and left it all to Robert Rodriguez in the end; remember Rodriguez even said that Favreau had'nt left him alot to work with, and he was mostly left to his own devices on that show. that's because Kennedy had interfered and Iger was not around to hold her back, and whatever story Favreau originally had, got drastically changed up.
this is all proof that when Jon Favreau & Dave Filloni are left completely alone they create truly great Star Wars. And all these amateur directors, or atleast directors who dont have a vision, if they're not under the guidance of truely experienced "Creatives" like Favreau & Filloni, they screw up; case-in-point Deborah Chow with Kenobi, and Rob Rodriguez with BOBF.
For God sakes can we just make the Disney trilogy non canon already so we can get back to great Star Wars stories again!
You haven't addressed the root problem which led to the sequels being garbage in the first place, so you're just gonna get more garbage post retcon.
@@Gnigghunter granted, but i trust filoni and favraeaus vision far more than the disney hack's, i just want competent storytelling again.
The picture of filoni and Rosario Dawson as ahsoka is a ‘fix’ in the direction the sequels went. instead of putting dots on her face they went the practical route…sometimes you have to appreciate the small things
I personally think retconning the sequels out of universe (so just announcing they are no longer canon like they did with the EU) would be the better move for Disney. They are no longer restricted in any way by those movies but they could still take characters or ideas from them if they wanted. And I believe a lot of fans would still have issues with Luke's portrayal in TLJ even if the event that leads to that movie is erased from the timeline because they don't think Luke would ever turn out like that, regardless of what happened to him. Lastly they could just make a new Sequel Trilogy to replace the retconned one and make tons of money which would obviously be the main reason for retconning the sequels in the first place.
If they're going to keep giving movies to people like Johnson, Abrams, and (according to rumor) Lindelof, then it's a hard 'I say thee nay' from me.
Lindelof is not someone who is in touch with what fans of a franchise want, and I'm not talking about traditional fan service, like the Hound fighting the Mountain. I'm talking about respecting legacy characters and giving those characters an actual - wait for it - legacy.
Luke's new Jedi order - what happened to that? Han and Leia's family - what happened to them? We wanted our heroes to have a legacy, and now they've got bupkis. How is it that the original EU, for the most part, did it better?
Highlander 2 was so bad that the studio attempted to re-edit it completely. When that didn't work, they just pretended it didn't exist, because it's a terrible movie. Halloween has rebooted twice already, the second time ignoring decades of bad-to-mediocre sequels (some that I still like, but whatever). Fans are forgiving, but only up to a certain point.
The sequels are bad. Get rid of them. I would be fine if they just said, 'The sequels never happened in the new canon' - the end. Who cares about timelines and alternate realities - if they went that route, fine, but it doesn't even need to be that complicated.
I work in customer service, and when one of my agents is dealing with a difficult customer, this is what I tell them: Make them go away. This translates to give them what they want so they will leave us alone and, maybe, buy from us again. That's the kind of service even a pleb like me can provide. What can I say? I must be some kind of genius or something.
Hey Thor, do you think Anakin redeeming Kylo Ren in TROS would've made more sense than the illusion of Han Solo? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Still wouldn’t have made the sequels good/better, honestly
@@chasehedges6775 Yeah, I know. It's just a "What if" question.
Yes, it would've been so much better. Still not good, but better at least.
No. It was clumsily done, but the callback worked as the way of showing he has changed. At that point we've already been shown that Kylo is in denial about Anakin, so it would just be superfluous and convoluted.
I always preferred the idea of Anakin appearing to Kylo in a vision where he more or less gives Kylo an ass-whooping to set him straight lol
They will not de canonize the sequel trilogy while the people responsible are still there, it would be such a black mark and admittance of failure
I absolutely agree that the best way to fix the franchise is to path a new road that goes in a different direction than the sequels...there's always the risk when introducing "time travel" and "alternate timelines" in major franchises that you end up making things even even messier to the point where it's impossible to figure out what is even happening anymore. This is ultimately what "terminated" the Terminator franchise after all. They kept hitting the time-travel reset button so many times that it lost all meaning and impact, alienating the ENTIRE fan-base.
So yes, having Ahsoka and/or Luke see a Force vision of the Sequels and thus deciding to try and change events COULD work...but it's a very treacherous road and has to be handled with utmost care.
I'm okay, if that ends up actually happening. Either way, I do believe that Filoni and Favreau are avoiding major parts of The ST, in their own original storytelling of The Mandalorian Saga. I'm sure and certain that Mr. George "The Maker" Lucas would have no issue with TWBW being used as a plot device to alter certain key events in the period 6 to 8 years prior to The Force Awakens; making it possible for more or much of his original concepts for his follow-up to The OT to be expressed and depicted in the main timeline.
Hopefully, Jon and Filoni get everything figured out and fixed.
@@chasehedges6775 I think George Lucas has been in talks with them, since 2018, about HOW to get things back on track. He's been their consultant/guru the whole time (he's the one who insisted that Grogu spend time with Luke, to gain enough training to be a believably powerful Force-user in the future...looking at you, Rey Palpatine), from TCW to Skeleton Crew (I'll bet Jon Watts, Chris Ford, Favreau, and Filoni have "zoomed" w/ GL at some point, over the last 6 months, about the overall narrative structure of the Mando Saga, and how it can move forward The SWU, independent of The ST).
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567 That's awesome to hear and Andor was amazing. Tony Gilroy is a fantastic director.
It makes no sense at this juncture in the "Mandoverse" timeline to try desperately to connect to a ST that's 30 yrs later. Creatively, its an ill-advised move. Thus I like Filoni's approach creatively to venture away from the ST via (The New Beyond). Since we all know the Sequel Trilogy narrative is very unpopular. Not to mention Ahsoka, Din Jarin, Grogu, The Mandalorians, Ghost Crew, Thrawn etc aren't in them.
With Seasons 1 and 2 of The Mandalorian, it sure felt like Filoni and Faveau trying to quietly sneak in a soft reboot by making that whole story fit as well into the EU as in the Disney canon. But, based on what I've seen since, someone must have noticed and insisted on more Disney canon elements going forward.
(The) story... can only have one merit: ...making the audience want to know what happens next. And conversely, it can only have one fault: that of making the audience not want to know what happens next. -E.M. Forster
This sounds messy but I have a theory that could save the canon:
Ahsoka, Ezra, & Grogu goes off and starts a new Light Side order in the unknown regions or a totally different galaxy. Rey starts opens small conclaves across the galaxy for her new 'Je'daii' Order, then comes into contact with Tho'Yor ships that take them to the new galaxy or new section of the Star Wars galaxy where they start a new Jedi order, with Xendor being the main antagonist. So its pulling elements from both Legends and Canon into a new timeline, this way they can also introduce Heroes and villains from Legends like Revan, Darth Traya, Nomi Sunrider, or the Sith Emperor into canon.
I’ve been on the Off Ramp since 2019.
It all comes down to money. If Lucasfilm and Disney are convinced retconning the sequels or creating new timelines will make them more money then keeping the sequels, they’ll do it.
The way you fielded that spoiler warning for Asoka was perfect. Thx for doing that.
If you're interested, I kept listening bc I'm down w star wars until something changes.
9:15 I don't think the world between worlds time travel works like that. In rebels when we think Ahsoka dies we didn't see her die, we see her battling Vader as the pyramid closes and assume Vader beats her but later we see that Ezra saved her by pulling her through the portal. I don't see this as changing history, this is what always happened we just didn't see it till later in the Ezras timeline. Ahsoka recognises this when she stops Ezra saving Kanan as saving him would have created a paradox because he wouldn't he wouldn't have been there to save them th-cam.com/video/eZCpv20L9RI/w-d-xo.html
The future is in the Unknown Regions. I mean it HAS TO BE! Come up with some reason for Ahsoka (and her band of merry men) to explore the Unknown Regions, discovering all sorts of odd places in that section of the unexplored galaxy, and even coming across threats that the wider Star Wars galaxy has no idea exists. At this point, the obstacle is imagination. Of which Dave Filoni, I'm certain, has plenty of. There's plenty of inspiration in the novels, and there's also plenty of room for brand new threats to rear their ugly heads. This is what I would do. It is time to make the "Unknown Regions" into the "Known Regions!"
Even though I love Mando, my excitement is always somewhat kept in check by the very real possibility that the show and its successors will ultimately tie in to movies I really want to forget about. I just know, if that happens, I will abandon SW for good and sell everything post-early 2014 I own.
I say it’s time to reset the episode 1-9 trilogy but set in the old republic. I’m one fan that believes the Episodic movies don’t only need to be Skywalker centered. Let the next family be Revan centered it can be KOTOR 1st trilogy is based on the 1st trilogy is based on the game!! 2nd trilogy is of Revan going after The emperor Darth vitiate then the
Last is the games based with the eternal empire. With many series and anthology movies in between the movies
This would be my Star Wars dream slate ofc this would be under the supervision of Jon f and Dave f
1: jango fett mini series
2: book of boba fett season 2 with a much more dark tone
3: tales of the sith animated anthology in the style of sw clone wars
4: the adventures of Jedi master Luke sky walker after the events of rotj in the clone wars art style
5: a old republic Trilogy
I have said they have written themselves into a corner with the sequel trilogy they can go forward, and they are running out of rememberrys to use and more and more ppl are have the conversation about is star wars dead it not at the moment but its not far off it is on the downward spiral of diminishing returns and before anyone says anything about andor yes it was good and yes it did get a decent audience in the end but it should have been a massive show and it wasn't it did ok 10 to 15 years ago it would have been one of the biggest shows of the year that the damage that has been done to star wars
Unfortunately whether some will like it or not like it. The sequel trilogy is going to have to be retconned. Star Wars fans have a bigger base for the prequel, OT and EU as compared to the sequels. There were some, for example, that swore off Star Wars completely when Han Solo was lazily killed off in TFA. Others because there was never a proper reunion of the main OT cast…(Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie and Lando) together. A retcon is the only way. More people will spend lots more money for honey not vinegar. Which is what the sequel trilogy is. Lucasfilm gives the fanbase a remixed version of Heir to the Empire (Rebels thrown into the mix), and Star Wars will jump to the front of the Disney pantheon. Sadly (not really) a retcon is the only alternative.
While all roads lead to the sequels, the sequels world building was paper thin, with a lot of unexplained/unexplored areas. This leaves a lot of room to develop what the galaxy actually looks like in the ST, and what was going on in the rest of the galaxy at the same time those films were taking place. This is where I think the open endedness will come from for a lot of these shows. Like Mando S3 seems to be teasing a lot to do with Mandalore, but the ST never mentions it, so there's lots of room there I think for these characters stories to have an unknown future.
Honestly Thor, The Empire long ago stopped feeling like a giant nearly unstoppable juggernaut. It now just feels and looks like an over incompetent, useless and funny Saturday morning villain group than a evil Empire that ruled the galaxy with an iron fist. The problem is Disney has turned the Empire into a laughing stock.
Moff Gideon in The Mandalorian: Hold my Tiefighter and watch me be a SERIOUS and COMPETENT villain.
Clearly, you haven't watch Andor, which has the most formidable and scary depiction of the Empire I've seen.
@@TheVeritas1 That torture scene and the Narkina 5 prison sequence. Just terrifying.
@@TheVeritas1 That's the problem though only one show really showed off the terror they use to be in older works. Everywhere else they are incompetent.
@@chasehedges6775 He is serious both the rest of his crew were typical dumb stormtroopers slapstick, who could forget the speeder troopers who could not hit a close target.
I quite unique with my vision since im cool with the sequels, my idea would be to expand that story on, into a wide open and wild galaxy with factions of criminal syndicates trying to take the power vaccum left and the returned New Republic rising to stop them,
Ben Solo's revival and road of redemption to the eyes of the galaxy,
Finn and Jannah finding and assembling the first order stormtroopers to the Republican Army,
Hux surviving like Fennec Shand did and then being an actual villain for Ben, Rey, Finn and the crew to face,
And finally the rise of a heist cartel taking over the criminal game to the cause of ending the force believing it to the cause of all wars in galactic history and opressor of freedom, and the main crew on top are good people not bad guys, just to the New Republic.
Man, I mean, if only they had books and comics that mapped out the timeline post-RotJ up to 150 or so years later to adapt. It's mind boggling that a franchise as popular and beloved as Star Wars never had tie-in literature they could pull from for the Sequels.
Right now, they are just focusing on telling stories with good characters. They decided to toss out the EU to make way for the sequel trilogy, and Dave Filoni is trying to claw it back to where they can pick and choose the best bits of the EU.
IMO they have a leadership issue. Filoni is not Feige. Filoni is the story teller, and he sees where it goes, but he is so passionate he is really hands on. Favreau is similar. They are makers. They can see the characters and stories, but wants to be hands on making it, and therefore can’t be putting together the bigger puzzle yet, or at least aren’t in a position to share it - thats Kennedy’s job.
Kennedy doesn’t have that same vision and passion for where it all needs to go like Feige, rather she is just happy to be a part of it, and a bit more like a ‘free form’ manager right now, letting the creators create. I don’t know how much control Feige exerts, but I think it was quite a bit during Phase 1-3, and I feel like someone in Kennedy’s position needs to exert more control. The problem is when she did that in the past, she didn’t know where she was taking things because it wasn’t about a story to her. It wasn’t about looking at all the source materials and forming a story. It was just about making something new, for newness sake, and then making fan service for fan service sake. Need someone with Filoni’s passion and understanding of the story and characters, but in a position of vision and leading.
Its not a job for Filoni though. He is a maker, and he won’t be happy if he’s not making and thats not fair to him. I don’t know if such a person exists.
In the current leadership at Lucasfilm, only Favreau has the Producer and Executive Producer experience needed to be a President. In fact, he's listed in the Top 20 Exec/Producers of the past decade. Remember Iron Man, Thor, Avengers, etc. Favreau IS THE GUY.
Sequels are such a massive disaster
They were so mediocre
It's so unbelievable that they had zero plan for the trilogy and all the potential has been wasted.
@@dereklopez9060👍. It's baffling that they just made it up as they went along.
@@chasehedges6775 SW Rebels was mediocre.
Sequels were terrible.
Hey Thor. Do you think that books like Thrawn should be adapted as movies? I would love to see and experience the world of the Chiss, but I am also afraid that the adaptations will render the books "obsolete" in a sense, similar to how the Ahsoka book has now been partially retconned multiple times.
TLDR: What's your opinion about adapting existing star wars media?
At this point, any plan is better than the disastrous sequels.
Translation: I'll take a decent/ok product over a mediocre and terrible product.
I also thought that after the Prequels came out. And here we are.
But there is no plan
I agree... But I would just retcon it into inexistence.
Praying they go the world between world routes they really could revitalize the entire franchise/ fan base by cutting of the sequel dead meat especially in the way you recommended
The sequel trilogy hangs like the heaviest of anchors on top of the entire franchise - as long as it exists, your exploration of events before it have to suit something that is so broken the only way to repair it is to throw it out.
So this isn’t the theory that Ezra saving Ahsoka created a new timeline?
Maybe, that's part of it. By saving Ahsoka, it's possible for she, Ezra, and whomever else (Luke? Anakin?), to alter the dynamics of the future, 20-something years down the line.
God don't remind everyone of that abortion of storytelling.
Exactly, just do something that change the future of Star wars and then just follow the mcu formula from the Mandalorian timeline going forward in time with Luke, Ahsoka, Mando, bo Katan, Ezra, Boba Fett, Thrawn etc... Where we have no clue what will happen to them
There's 30 years between ROTJ and TFA. There are plenty of stories to tell!
And hey perhaps an animated series can improve (retcon) our perception of the Sequels. I mean The Clone Wars fixed the shitshow that the Prequels were (are)... at least for generations younger than X.
Since Disney has made me so cynical about Star Wars over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if they remade Lucas's movies so they could fall in line with their sequel trilogy. I think that's more likely than a retcon ever would be. I don't believe Filoni or Favreau would do this, but I could see Corporate Executives getting this "brilliant idea" to update Star Wars for a modern audience. Just my cynical take.
I will always love Lucas's Star Wars. That's my childhood and a big part of my identity. But that era ended when Lucas sold to Disney, I just didn't know it then. Disney burned their bridges. Rebuilding them seems almost pointless at this point, because many of us got tired of waiting, left, and found a different path. For example, I've heard Andor is good. But I just haven't been motivated enough to pay a months worth for Disney +, or felt like carving out time to watch it, which kind of surprises me. Disney hurt me really bad, I'm not sure it's really worth opening that wound again.
Well they should be allowed to rebuild those bridges and should be allowed to win you back. There will be no sabotage or trickery from that apathy of yours.
Learn how to torrent, that’s how I watch all the shows
@@ChineseGlobalism Piracy should be a death sentence in pop culture.
@@achaudhari101 Cope
Remake the whole saga - including the OT. Clean up some of the conveniences and inconsistencies, give the awesome villains their due. Expand the time before EP1 and explain Maul/Grevious/Dooku, give them more to do, don't kill them off so quickly. Explain more about Palp's plan. Clean up Anakin's characterization, romance (if present), and fall so that it makes more sense to more people and has better dialogue. Have Ahsoka incorporated in the Saga. Clean up the conveniences and inconsistencies of the OT like the incest. Where the prequels need some fleshing out and cleaning up, the sequels just need a complete rewrite - the world building doesn't even make sense. All along the way, incorporate spin-offs and other stories to add to the galaxy, but not necessarily connect as heavily as something like the MCU.
Hey Thor,
What do you think would have happened to the saga if Anakin Skywalker would have returned to Tatooine and rescued his mother long before she died?
Looking at the Marvel slate, I'm grateful Star Wars doesn't have something like that. Imagine a year with the Acolyte, Lindelof's movie, Jenkins' movie, and another subpar Kenobi season....
Your solution is the only solution I think I can ever live with
They should play a "Big Trouble in Little China" card and just tell a good story that isn't actually connected to anything else. Granted, the chances of them putting together a good story are slim enough, let alone one that doesn't connect to anything else.
Also +1 for retconning the sequels.
absolutely, the sequel trilogy is the biggest problem for star wars. as a more-than-casual-but-far-from-super-deep fan, i'd be okay with a solution that partially alters history, making use of the world between worlds and other means. but please, no more resurrections of dead characters who should stay dead.
It’s astonishing to me that LucasFilm feels beholden to a trilogy that had progressively worse box office results as the trilogy went along, to the point where the third film made HALF of the revenue of the first film. Just…. abandon it completely and create a new timeline. Why is this so hard to understand?
It feels like they are setting up a lot of new ideas for a side story that is open ended with characters that don’t show up in the sequels. Sure we know about the main OT characters and the portion of the Empire the became the First Order the Palpatine. With all the Faloni/Favaro/Legends created characters they can have a complete unknown ending story within the timeline. I think they will tell both stories. How the side story intertwines with the main saga story yet tells its own story we don’t know the end too.
Just make the sequel Legends and move on. Regardless, they will always have to skirt an actual followup for the original trilogy characters because they already pissed that all away.
That's ultimately the real shame of the sequel trilogy. They had one shot to get Ford, Mayhew, Fisher, and Hamill together to wrap it up and start a new thing and they squandered it.
Mando said in trailer you need to learn about the galaxy so you never feel lost....i hope they all go to a galaxy far far away from the sequels
Amazing writing man. That inspired me!
In a "retcon" scenario, I imagine they could have a moment where Ahsoka more or less see's a vision of the future if she fails to stop Thrawn. In a marathon, this vision of the future would be where a viewer would watch the Sequels. Let's be real, the formation of the First Order and complete destruction of the New Republic is absolutely a dark timeline. Working out in the end or not wouldn't give peace to any logical thinking being, and someone like Ahsoka and Ezra would want to prevent that.
After the defeat of Thrawn and the halting of the First Order and Palpatine's return, you have Ahsoka find Palpatine's clone, who has since started his family and has discovered his daughter Rey to be force sensitive. She would offer to train Rey. Have Ezra do the same with Finn. And with that and Luke's Jedi order, the future of the Jedi is secured and the road ahead of us unknown but exciting to discover.
Billions of planets and eons to explore and yet somehow we always end up on freaking Tatooine 95% of the time.
At this point is would be probably a good idea to make a new sequal trilogy at least 300 years in the future. You are free in a sense from what happend before and at the same time its still there but a past that cant be touched anymore.
This has been my thought since TROS was released. Either go far enough back in time that the decisions by the characters would not impact directly on the existing story or far enough forward that nothing in the established story matters and you have a clean slate, new republic, new schools of thought on the relationship the force and the force sensitive etc. The High Republic is still far too close for comfort.
4 steps to heal the Star Wars franchise:
1. Decanonize the sequels.
2. Decanonize the resistance series.
3. Decanonize Soylo a Star Wars failure.
4. Stop announcing Star Wars movies and series just to have them cancelled later.
Great insight. I agree wholeheartedly
I think using the Ezra and Thrawn story/characters to effectively bypass the sequals is a good idea.
CRAZY HYPOTHESIS: Thrawn and Ezra were taken to the neighbour galaxy and Ahsoka goes there to find them. When she gets there it seems familiar because it is almost identical to the galaxy she is from. Except in this galaxy she was killed by Vader. They all stay in that galaxy because it is better.
That way the ''sequels'' can remain canon while also getting something new and better.
And yes, i know this is essentially the same as having another universe/timeline, but it is at least a little different.
But If we give such importance to Ezra and Ahsoka, the sequels is already doomed.
We need Luke Skywalker series, based in EU.
Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, New Jedi Order and etc...
Not a Ahsoka show. Disney is using her to make us to forget the importance of Luke Skywalker.
Your idea of fixing Star Wars is a valid one. And that the sequel trilogy still exists, but as an alternative reality , while the Asoka series can potentially create a new , better star wars moving forward
I really wish that star wars could have a timeline like Zelda. In that case the sequel trilogy can simply be an alternate timeline at the end.
If Star Wars wants people to be invested again they need to take the story into a new era. One where the events don’t line up or lead to anything associated with the time from the end of episode 6 to the end of episode 9. They can’t keep telling stories between episode 6 & 7 forever and they can’t write any stories between Sequel trilogies without heavily scratching the bottom of the barrel. And not alot of people want or will care about stories that take place after 9 even if they do everything right because of the way episode 9 ended in the exact same circumstances as episode 6 people will be pissed and feel cheated about not getting that in the first place with the sequel trilogy such as Luke/Ray rebuilding the Jedi era or Leia/Poe rebuilding the republic. If they can’t/won’t undo the events of the sequels than the stories being told going forward need to associate themselves as far away from them in the future by either being stories in the distant past (origin of Jedi & Sith order) or distant future (stories about major threats and ordeals in the galaxy)
Would people be cool with a trilogy set 100 or so years like that?
@@achaudhari101 That’s the bare minimum amount of time imo
@@achaudhari101yeah. Tell new stories.
Anything that leads or has anything to do with the Sequels is not canon for me. They should have used Lucas's story treatments and maybe modified them a little, maybe let Dave and Favrue do the 3 last movies, it would be awesome if we get those Sequels like I just said, like an extra Sequel for the try hard fans of SW and George Lucas.
I think they should keep Finn, Poe and Kylo (he needs a massive rework though) because they are fundamentally good characters and have a lot of growth potential. I think they can afford to cut literally everyone else from the sequels, including Rey. Or introduce her as a villain at first at the very least. I always thought it would have made a lot more sense if Kylo was the one to attack Luke after receiving visions from Snoke. Just a few tweaks like that and a more competent writing team and they could be legitimately good.
The damage is done- we've all seen the Sequel Trilogy & know it exists, and had a bad experience. So it doesn't matter if they retcon, decanonize- whatever. Many have formed an opinion of "Disney Star Wars" and it can't be fixed.
Even if such a miracle were to occur, you would have to deal with the fans who are more than fine with the status quo, and those who are disillusioned and have sworn off Star Wars altogether.
I would love to see Disney allow the EU to be made into movies, series, animation, etc. They can call it the Legends Series. I know it won't happen because if those shows were loyal to the novels and graphic novels from Dark Horse, they would generate a fan base that would rival the sequels and everything that Filoni, Favreau or Kennedy made. Disney would double or triple their profit and harvest a new following of loyal fans. How do I know this? Look at the profits Disney has reaped from rereleasing these titles. The old Dark Horse stories are putting the new Marvel stories to shame. This is unsurprising because Dark Horse gave its authors and artists freedoms that Marvel would NEVER grant its creators. Disney is passing up a major market opportunity. Why?? This move doesn't make sense for a company focusing on profits to make....unless they were following an agenda instead of profits.