For the people who disagree with the points made in the guide I'm going to leave a response comment from Mowsen. At the end of the day we're aruguing about 0.5% differences so it's more down to preference. Nonetheless this is what Mowsen had to say: i think u cant really please anyone, this is by far the quickest level talent tree "I would never spec BoM while levelling, the mana cost reduction on seals and judgements I way to good for efficiency." yea well thats the biggest noob trap :smile: the mana u save on low levels is like 15 mana or so its not worth dont worry man everything is correct seems some people dont get it, u judge crus and use Command and judge command into it, u use so little mana that way and the bom is nice too, the seal mana cost isnt worth it, if u do the math u will see. Ofc you shouldnt spam the rotation but tahts the players responsibility. for example SOC rank 2 costs 110 mana u judge crusader and bring up soc and hit the mob, so its not worth ud save 16 mana on soc and 9 mana on crusader and some 15 mana on judgement: so 40 mana for 5 points thats for rank 2 and rank 3 its not worth and usually the rotation is just, Crusader judge, then auto attack with soc that way u also dont go oom and u have no down times while leveling your rotation is maximum dps output
But isn't the same thing true about lower ranks of BoM? You use SOC rank 2 as an example. So at level 30. That also means BoM Rank 3 so you are right you only save 40 mana but the gain is only eleven atp more. That is not even a whole point of DPS. Even being nicer and going higher at 32 it is still only 19 atp so slightly more than 1 dps. Also you are saying "most of the time you will be using blessing of wisdom". Obviously then the other talent looks nicer.
but you recommend to use BoW most of the time... so from this point spending points on BoM is complete bs and tho the mana savings from Benediction is maybe low but not a waste like BoM
Yeah, everything from this guy is wrong. Before making videos about a class and you're looking for someone to back it up, be sure to find someone who actually plays a ranked Paladin. Like I cannot even point out every wrong thing because everything is wrong, just pure trash. I am not saying this to you Meta because you probably main another class and got all this info from someone who is just starting the Paladins or who haven't even leveled past 20. This video is literally hindering more than it is helping, why are you keeping this public?
5 points into benediction is better then 5 into improved might. Blessing of might actually barely gives an increase to average kill time. You're better off using blessing of wisdom and you can easily chain pull with less downtime and you will always have mana for healing and what not if you front load your spells then just white hit for the last 40% ish.
@@MetaGoblin Mana is never not a problem. Paladin's DPS is completely throttled by mana. Imp BoM is a fucking trap for leveling. The only time you'd EVER want to put BoM on is if you have another paladin in your group.
@@obeybosss The build is garbage, but you want to respec at 35 into reckoning, which is confirmed to proc off of spellbatched sit/stand abuse. You have no mount cost at 40, so you can afford a respec at about that range, seeing as you dont need to pay out the nose like other classes do.
Okay.. 5/5 in BoM...what?! As someone who ACTUALLY played retribution paladin “well” in vanilla I can confirm just about everything in this video is wrong.
this metagoblin guy has been called out time and time again for the low effort low quality "guides" where he steals info from forums/other videos and doesn't even bother to think about it... don't follow any of his guides honestly, why do you think he's got a significant amount of dislikes on each video?
Most of his guides are him umming and arring because he doesnt use scripts, and he always says I think this or I think that. People go these vids to get answers not vague information.
Can we get a “Horde Blood Elf Paladin leveling” guide for pre-patch (1-60)? Since original TBC they released blood Alf with portal opening but this time they are giving us time to Lvl before the portal opens, I wanna reach 60 fast and gear him. But as horde I don’t even know what gear we have available for paladins on pre-patch.
Link from your perspective RET build, I am willing to solo level, quest and dungeon as dps spec. I just started playing classic era and willing to have max dps output as Rey. Thanks! @mixmix889
@@Tyranny. so apparently i tried to directly post a link to a build and got deleted or filtered. so Ret tree: 5 Benediction, 2 Judgement, 3 Deflection, 1 SoC, 2 Pursuit of justice, 5 Conviction, 2 Vindication,1 Sanctity aura,1 Vindication, 3 two handed specialisation, 5 Vengeance,1 Repetance . Protection tree 5 redoubt (grab a shield ull need it), 3 Precision, 2 Guardians Favor,1 BoK. Back to ret tree 2 Deflection. Holy tree 5 intellect, 2 Strength. Keep slaying undead and demons whenever you can 24-31 duskwood, 36-42 undead ravagers desolace, 51+ WPL Felwood EPL. Buy waters, dont listen to people who say save money, you have 100 free gold, spent them on waters either from mages or vendors. Bandage before you spent mana for heals. As a dungeon dps the best damage you can do is keeping group from dying and buffing them thats why we have BoK in build, pala is not that good unforunatelly,thats also why we have vindication help the tank with damage reduction due to strength and crit reduction throygh agility reduction and dodge avoidance lesser armor due to agility again, that applies on you too while solo grinding. Ignore the agility nonsense, you cant find good plate with agi except expensive BoE's and high lvl dungeon loot. Its good but dont focus too much on it while leveling( this is leveling advise not end game). Ignore the creator who selfburned himself on the pinned comment, after suggesting a build and rotation and then goes on to say dont spam the rotation and dont use hammer of wrath... if thats what it takes to make videos these days its a joke. dont propose a rotation thats not viable. SPAM the rotation buy waters. the gold you save from mount at 40 is like 90 mins of farm when you hit 60. spent them to reduce the 1-60 from 8 days to 6 and a half. Check other videos for more advanced stuff like seal twisting. ignore this one. Hope this doesnt get deleted again. Edit. Just to clarify don't spam the rotation proposed on the video, since I didn't include imp seal of the crusader on talent, just judge command all the time, crusader not worth it for mobs, they die too quick.
too mana intensive to judge and reseal every mob. Better to autoattack with SoC and use that mana just for healing. Should have almost no need to drink if you do that and pull one at a time
Most of the time you don't want to bother with the Judgement of the Crusader since it is more mana and it also takes away you being able to judge Command instead. Most mobs don't last a very long time and so even if you use judgement on cool down you might only get maybe 3 judgement. The damage gained for the +holy damage is not nearly as much as a Judgement of Command. There are a few exceptions to this such as if you are high level and running around using rank 1 Command to save mana, in this case Judgement of Command does not do a lot of damage however by judging Crusader instead you are basically using up the mana for a max level Command anyway so it is likely a Judgement of Command is still better. Anouther example would be fighting an elite or a boss or a mob many level higher than you are. For example, if you decide to fight bellygrub at like lvl 19 or something Judgement of the Crusader would be the way to go. The only problem with this is that in later levels you get better Judgements such as light or wisdom for this purpose. While leveling you almost never use Sac Aura because Ret aura does more damage than Sac aura at almost all times you can even get the +50% Ret aura bonus in the tree. There is only two reasons to use Sac aura and that is if you have anouther paladin in your group using Ret Aura or if you want to pad your damage meter since unless your tanking Ret aura's damage goes to the tank where as Sac aura's damage goes to you. There is one more case and that would be if for some reason a holy priest is dpsing in your group but that almost never happens and therefore does not really count. You dont want to change out your buffs all the time as a paladin going from might to wis and back because everytime you cast wis on yourself you have to wait 5 secs to get your mana regen back and it usually takes 30-60 secs for the blessing of wisdom to make up for the mana lost and then there is the 5 secs switching back to blessing of might. If you plan to fight 1 mobs at a time at your level then Blessing of might is almost always the way to go, but it you are fighting stronger mobs than you often need to heal for then you should go blessing of Wisdom. Imp seal of Crusader is almost worthless and imp judge is also not that great either since it will let you get maybe on more judgement on a mob but at the cost of your mana since it would reduce your mana regen time from 5 secs between judgement to 3 secs. Often times it is not even worth it to judge more than once on a mob anyway so you can front load all you spells so you can regen your mana for the next mob. Imp Parry actually increases your damage as well as your damage reduction since every parry causes your next swing to be 40% faster. +5% parry ends up being like a +2.4% damage buff as well as reducion your need to heal yourself after a fight which will save you 2.5secs run time between mobs sometimes. Precision is generally not the way you want to go since if you are fighting mobs your level your miss chance is only like 5% and that +3% hit rate requires you to spend 5 points into prot. It is really not worth getting unless you already plan on going prot for the future. Especially at that time you have a choice between imp devotion aura and +5% to crit chance with Conviction. At that time you almost always want to put it into crit. Maybe after you are done with the ret talent tree you may go get the +3 hit rating. However, most people put there talent points into holy then to get the +70% anti pushback you can put on your concentration aura on top of that to get +100% no pushback which is very useful if you get into a bad situation as well as consecration which is very good in a lot of situations. Never go eye for an eye for leveling the only use to it is in pvp and generally even then max level pvp since low level people will not crit you that often even then it is only really useful if you are healing yourself and taking mage hits and cant get to them for some reason. All of this is assuming you dont go aoe prot spec or reckoning spec since those actually do more damage than ret does why leveling. The only exception to this is if you run dps in groups, which most people will not let you do past the deadmines and maybe BFD and SFK. You will likely be stuck as the healer or sometimes the tank. Using hammer of justice to increase dps is generally not a good idea either but I can see where you might use rank1 to increase your Judgement of Command assuming you are full of mana and don't expect to need it for saving your life in case of trouble.
@@yodasaber1 from this: 'All of this is assuming you dont go aoe prot spec or reckoning spec since those actually do more damage than ret does' --> reckoning spec for leveling? If /sit macro is not the case then can you explain a little bit what you mean?
@@vojtakalab7175 OK. Reckoning spec is viable option (not the best one but viable) without the /sit macro, since mobs your level have a natural 5% crit rate with higher level mobs crit rate increasing (I believe +2 higher is 7% but I con't remember the actual number so take the 7% with a grain of salt). Mobs have a 1-2s attack rate with most mobs attack rate being 2s that means that if you have a slow weapon such as 3.8s (slowest one) that is a 9.5% increase in damage of both your normal damage as well as your procs from Command assuming you have both Command and Reckoning.(with a weapon speed of 3s it will be lower at 7.5% increase) With the +3% increase to hit you can pick up on the way this can be a viable option while leveling. This DPS increase is even larger if for example 2 or 3 mobs attack you at once(being a +19% or 28.5%). It is actually very useful for a couple of mobs at a time since it allows you to gain the ability to burst down one mob to let you be able to 1v1 the second mob afterward. It is also very useful in a pvp realm in which you can be attacked by a Horde player while you are fighting a mob at the same time (it especially destroys rogues that gank you). I am in no way saying that it is the best leveling spec since I think the AOE method is better. However, there are many advantages to this kind of build in late game I would say level 47 at the minimum (maybe like level 50 would be better). This is especially true since at around level 50 you start to get a lot of more fair fights with the opposing faction instead of a level 60 one shoting you. For example, this would be useful in Un'goro Crater, which has a lot of competition.
@@yodasaber1 Reckoning is for sure option.... but you said its better then retribution. I doubt about it. Reckoning is the FIRST talent in prot tree giving you real + damage aspect (ok + hit is dps boost as well) and you sink 20 talent points before to get there... On the other hand retri with Vengeance is better option, less 'wasted' talents, more dps.
@@Avrelivs_Gold True, but improved blessing of might at level 60 only increases DPS by 2.6(thats AQ drop blessing) At level 36 its only 1.2dps Blessing of might and drinking is faster to a degree then BOW but improved blessing of might is completely useless. You actually get more DPS out of having to drink less out of benediction. Honestly this leveling guide is trash.
This issue with Paly is that they suck at DPS, you will always be last on the dps meters in dungeons, this may be "the best" spec for leveling ie. killing mobs and questing, but don't expect to put up big numbers. Even with Wisdom you will kill 2 or 3 mobs at the most until you need to drink. Leveling a Paly has been the slowest most tedious class I have leveled. This build DOES do decent in world PVP I will say though.
nice video, but this is PVE ret spec. wouldnt recommend it for leveling at all. Imp SoCru is not that good, you dont want to judge that, because it wastes a lot of mana. Maybe in pvp against warrior. Just get more points in Deflection. Also grab repentance. HUGE gap closer, and helps you out a lot in many situations, like use it to heal yourself. You have no tools to protect yourself with that build, and youre going to suffer. i'd recommend going prot then choose as you like. You going to take so much less dmg, and with holy shield you can just go 3 mobs at a time, with seal of light and wisdom on, and you going to do about as much dps as you would do in ret.
@@robertp457 you dont aoe caster groups. Yes its worse than ret in that senerio but prot is so much better after all post lvl 33ish that its not even close. Prot is obj better by a mile.
Love the Vids, but this guide mate? The spec, what happened there? Rotation on mobs is making you oom at 1-3 mobs? Seal of crusader to inc your damage makes no sense if its not a boss, elite or hard mob. You can also tip other paladins to farm on undeads cause of the Exorcism. No mention of the lvl 20 wep for paladins? Saving gold on not maxing spells you wont use? Anyways keep up the good work
since judgement has 10 yard range wouldn't it make sense to reapply seal immediately after opening with judge so u can proc command on ur first swing? also the holy damage bonus from crusader is not worth the loss of direct damage compared to opening with judgement of command on mobs below a certain hp threshold which is about 30-40s of combat.
I see so many bullshit specs. Anyone who actually had a vanilla paladin knows that Consecrate is a mana sucking hole, but every supposed expert says you need it.... I have only ever used consecrate for pvp and for picking up whelplings in Onyxia.
the first 10 points... stop... what are you doing? Benediction 5/5... to save mana... Deflection 5/5 to pary and DPS boost due to parry haste...you are gona use SoC 90% of the time... you waist 10 tallents point on things you are never gona use any way.
Well that was a waste of time. "Which buff should you use? Blessing of Wisdom" then turns around and immediately puts 5 talent points into Blessing of Might. Stopped right there (then proceeds to quote some random "specialist" about using Blessing of Might. Waste. Of. Time.). As a Ret Paladin I'm *always* in need of mana, so I use Wisdom every time. Paladins don't level fast any way you shake it. Anyways, probably best to look elsewhere for suggestions.
Not getting parry is a noob mistake.(unless its for dungeon leveling with party and you are not the tank) Parry an attack=40% reduction on total swing timer down to 20% swing speed. 3.7 weapon gives 16 attacks per minute Against a mob 3 levels higher assuming max weapon skill for your level. You will miss 1.44 attacks every min with 9% miss. You will miss 0.96 attacks every 1 min with 6% miss.(precision) You will miss 0.96 attacks every 1 min with 6% miss due to Human +5 weapon skill. You will miss 0.48 attacks every min with 3% miss due to human +5 weapon skill + precision. Precision gives you 0.48 attacks(hits) a min average extra. Paladins are not duel wielding 28% miss chance against a mob 3 levels above them like rogues/warriors/hunters. Most mobs have a 1.2 to 2 second attack speed in the game. 20% of parry will happen below min swing speed limit. +5% parry gives you ~+0.5 extra attacks a min at 2 second mob attack speed. +5% parry gives you ~+0.8 extra attacks a min at 1.2 second mob attack speed. You also take less damage due to parry, if you are getting attacked by multiple mobs the DPS goes up. At best they are equal but you need to spend gold to respec. However The loss crit chance ONTOP due to going into percision completely blows the DPS out the window for full ret deflection vs precision spec. NOW If you decided to go deflection and precision then it would be better... till you got 1 extra % to crit... Honestly no real reason to go into prot and respec.
You might wanna keep in touch with a Blacksmith early on. Very good wep at level 8 and 14... compared to the stuff in the spreadsheet. If you have the support then go for Verigans Fist. He says kinda waste of time but your kill speed goes up like insane so worth imo.
Great video ! Loving Ret, people who say Prot is better are either grouping up to do dungeons or to do the boring pointless aoe grinding, it's my first run through as paladin and with this set up I barely have any downtime, thanks man.
I have to say this guide is pretty garbage. Seal of the Crusader is pretty much pointless when leveling. You should kill most solo mobs within 15-20 seconds. You almost never have time to judge the same target twice, they die too fast. It's not a question about mana efficiency but one of time to kill. Improved Blessing of Might is pointless when leveling, you should be using Wisdom so you can kill non stop without downtime. If you can judge the target then you judge the target to maximize dmg, there should be very little downtime with Wisdom active. Crusader is something you only judge on an elite or a boss, not normal mobs. Heck I'd even question putting it on elites or bosses if you are in a group, the mob should die before the benefit of just judging Righteousness or Command is passed.
You should only judge SoC if it takes about 30s to kill the mob otherwise not worth wasting that time/mana casting it, and you should use BoW while leveling, always having mana regen means you can always sustain yourself with healing and rely on auto attack procs of SoC and spending the mana on instant judgement dmg or healing yourself, overall this will decrease a lot of down time, can be quite boring but really effective.
can you acctually heal as a paladin with no talents in holy ? Divine Intellect, Spiritual Focues, Healing light is very benefical for both you and your party. I'm considering going 16 / 0 / 35 but i dont know where to put my first points though. Either in Holy or ret. I wane be able to heal in dungeons with my palah
you dont need any healing talents to heal dungeons while leveling. At 60 its even fine to swap out gear to heal dungeons when needed. But Ofc its better to be a holy pally if u want to heal at 60. If you dont lack hit at 60 anymore you can also get the healing light talent and even illumination if you want to be a full supporter and beneficial to the raid. You should have divine intelect in any case as mana as a ret and while leveling is always somewhat of an issue.
@@Mowsenlel as a non-religious person, it would feel un-orthodox to take on healing roles as a retribution spec paladin. Will i have a hard time taking a dps spot as ret for 5-man grps ?
@@jerkerkruse4541 while you are leveling, you can get into groups as ret, as long as you are a decent paladin otherwise and ret damage isn't that bad at the early stages. At level 60 you probably will struggle to find groups.
Depends on what your goals are. It’s the best healer in pve and pvp, can tank any non raid content and has some niche tank duties in raid scenarios like suppression room in bwl, and ret is really strong in pvp. If you’re trying to be top dps in a raid better roll warrior or mage.
Everything about this is incredibly wrong. Your rotations, your talent spec, everything. Pretty BM to make this guide tbh, youre hindering people more than helping
Bunch of try-hards downvoting this video that have never even reached level 60. This guy made disclaimers about how a Paladin has many options when it comes to building them and you basement warriors still hop on here talking a bunch of nothing. This is a good video and more than enough to get you started on a Paladin in classic WoW. The only bad thing about MMORPGs are the the self righteous autistic community that it is usually riddled with. No empathy, no kindness and obviously no tact. Just computers spouting cold sentences on whether something is or isn’t meta. This video helped me and I enjoyed the content in general. 🤘🤓🙏
Ive watched a few guides. This one works best for my play style. Although MetaGoblin isnt as thorough in explaining details about the ret paladin, his and my play style doesnt rely on procs and mods. Im sure meta's intention isnt meant for top dps as we all know this isnt possible as a ret pally. This play style is strictly meant for solo leveling (at least for me) which is also not a popular decision considering ret pallys are one of the slowest leveling classes. I get why so many people disagree with meta's p.o.v. but I do not.
the whole point behind reckoning was the /sit macro and that isnt gonna work in classic so wasting all those points just to get 1 ability that will work sometimes...not worth it
Unless your playing in a clearly defined group with clear roles, holy and ret paladins must spec in to protection at the very start of the talent points obviously don't start with shield block and may as well get king's when your at it. Unless classic db is wrong. The 3%hit plus 10% improvement of kings then start into your primary talent tree, you will never get that hit from gear.
Yeah prot really isn't worth dipping into. You can just go into holy to get better healing. Get rid of your spell pushback when using healing spells and when you get low, throw on concentration aura and cast holy light or whatever for free.
His whole build is super iffy, but Prot is not a joke. Reckoning builds will outpace any other alternative at 35, and before 35, if you take a 11 holy start (like you should, Consecration is fucking broken for leveling if you use it right), you want redoubt and percision. The former is an incredible value for your points, the later gives you better DPS than anything 8-15 points in ret can offer. Prot/holy is almost always the way to go for leveling. Ret doesnt get much value out of its tree until the lategame. Vengeance, r1 SoC downranking, and 2h spec are really the only pros to ret, and they all come super late.
This guy literally has about 20% of the idea of paladin side that he’s got no fucking clue what he’s talking about any paladin his worth their knowledge would say that hole he has a better chance of leveling faster to handed weapon and if anyone was using select for Cedar is going to be leveling with gear funneled to them don’t try to fuck in Cham Sail can level with you can’t fucking level PVP tree don’t like Kalin has three trees one of them is PVP and two PVE
Anyone considering going Ret Paladin for melee... keep this in mind. When you hear how they "SUCK" and others claim they are "AWESOME" Paladin Seal of command(70% weapon damage) procs 7 times per minute. Hunter Raptor strike(100% weapon damage+ bonus damage) is on demand every 6 seconds for 10 attacks a minute.
@Keith Depending on the patch and I am not sure about 1.12 SOC can be Dodged Parried Resisted outright(5% chance) Glancing blow(half damage) Higher level mobs have a higher chance of resisting your Divine damage outright. Paladins don't suck, but due to lack of equipment at 60 and lackluster base DPS they SUCK in DPS. Which was my point between a ranged char melee ability and Paladins ability. If people take ret and expect to do good DPS or allowed in raids they will be pissed when they find out its a big fat NO. the Half in Pally(half in ret/prot) for SOC and Reckoning is the funniest damn PVP class in game. Add on a hand of justice and Elemental Deck(both of which can proc off both normal attack and SOC and each other) and you end up with a Rek bombing LOLZ that can if the RNG gods smile upon you One shot ANY other CLASS in the game.
For the people who disagree with the points made in the guide I'm going to leave a response comment from Mowsen. At the end of the day we're aruguing about 0.5% differences so it's more down to preference. Nonetheless this is what Mowsen had to say:
i think u cant really please anyone, this is by far the quickest level talent tree
"I would never spec BoM while levelling, the mana cost reduction on seals and judgements I way to good for efficiency." yea well thats the biggest noob trap :smile: the mana u save on low levels is like 15 mana or so its not worth
dont worry man everything is correct seems some people dont get it, u judge crus and use Command and judge command into it, u use so little mana that way and the bom is nice too, the seal mana cost isnt worth it, if u do the math u will see.
Ofc you shouldnt spam the rotation but tahts the players responsibility.
for example SOC rank 2 costs 110 mana u judge crusader and bring up soc and hit the mob, so its not worth
ud save 16 mana on soc and 9 mana on crusader and some 15 mana on judgement: so 40 mana
for 5 points
thats for rank 2 and rank 3
its not worth
and usually the rotation is just, Crusader judge, then auto attack with soc
that way u also dont go oom and u have no down times while leveling
your rotation is maximum dps output
But isn't the same thing true about lower ranks of BoM? You use SOC rank 2 as an example. So at level 30. That also means BoM Rank 3 so you are right you only save 40 mana but the gain is only eleven atp more. That is not even a whole point of DPS.
Even being nicer and going higher at 32 it is still only 19 atp so slightly more than 1 dps. Also you are saying "most of the time you will be using blessing of wisdom". Obviously then the other talent looks nicer.
but you recommend to use BoW most of the time... so from this point spending points on BoM is complete bs and tho the mana savings from Benediction is maybe low but not a waste like BoM
Yeah, everything from this guy is wrong. Before making videos about a class and you're looking for someone to back it up, be sure to find someone who actually plays a ranked Paladin. Like I cannot even point out every wrong thing because everything is wrong, just pure trash. I am not saying this to you Meta because you probably main another class and got all this info from someone who is just starting the Paladins or who haven't even leveled past 20. This video is literally hindering more than it is helping, why are you keeping this public?
@@robertp457 THIS
You're trolling bro. No way you think this shit lmao.
5 points into benediction is better then 5 into improved might. Blessing of might actually barely gives an increase to average kill time. You're better off using blessing of wisdom and you can easily chain pull with less downtime and you will always have mana for healing and what not if you front load your spells then just white hit for the last 40% ish.
I agree, see my post. fill in if you want to!
Why spec into blessing of might when you said earlier in the video to use blessing of wisdom?
it's wrong, the bonus ap increase is so little while lvling, it's a talent for 60 raiding
If mana isn't a problem then you will use BoM
The talent guide is crap... Especially with respecing. Y... Respec ... While lvl.. waste your time, money and increase futher respec cost.
@@MetaGoblin Mana is never not a problem. Paladin's DPS is completely throttled by mana. Imp BoM is a fucking trap for leveling. The only time you'd EVER want to put BoM on is if you have another paladin in your group.
@@obeybosss The build is garbage, but you want to respec at 35 into reckoning, which is confirmed to proc off of spellbatched sit/stand abuse. You have no mount cost at 40, so you can afford a respec at about that range, seeing as you dont need to pay out the nose like other classes do.
Okay.. 5/5 in BoM...what?!
As someone who ACTUALLY played retribution paladin “well” in vanilla I can confirm just about everything in this video is wrong.
Pretty uninformed guide tbh.
this metagoblin guy has been called out time and time again for the low effort low quality "guides" where he steals info from forums/other videos and doesn't even bother to think about it... don't follow any of his guides honestly, why do you think he's got a significant amount of dislikes on each video?
Most of his guides are him umming and arring because he doesnt use scripts, and he always says I think this or I think that. People go these vids to get answers not vague information.
I would never spec BoM while levelling, the mana cost reduction on seals and judgements I way to good for efficiency.
Everyone underestimate putting points into parry . I put 3 points into parry instead of improved crusader . My guy parrys all the time
I do the same as you.. 100% of paladin leveling videos are so terribly wrong!!!
Can we get a “Horde Blood Elf Paladin leveling” guide for pre-patch (1-60)?
Since original TBC they released blood Alf with portal opening but this time they are giving us time to Lvl before the portal opens, I wanna reach 60 fast and gear him. But as horde I don’t even know what gear we have available for paladins on pre-patch.
Have you ever played Paladin ?? 99% of this video is wrong.
I thought the same thing, lol
Link from your perspective RET build, I am willing to solo level, quest and dungeon as dps spec. I just started playing classic era and willing to have max dps output as Rey. Thanks! @mixmix889
@@Tyranny. so apparently i tried to directly post a link to a build and got deleted or filtered. so Ret tree: 5 Benediction, 2 Judgement, 3 Deflection, 1 SoC, 2 Pursuit of justice, 5 Conviction, 2 Vindication,1 Sanctity aura,1 Vindication, 3 two handed specialisation, 5 Vengeance,1 Repetance . Protection tree 5 redoubt (grab a shield ull need it), 3 Precision, 2 Guardians Favor,1 BoK. Back to ret tree 2 Deflection. Holy tree 5 intellect, 2 Strength.
Keep slaying undead and demons whenever you can 24-31 duskwood, 36-42 undead ravagers desolace, 51+ WPL Felwood EPL.
Buy waters, dont listen to people who say save money, you have 100 free gold, spent them on waters either from mages or vendors. Bandage before you spent mana for heals.
As a dungeon dps the best damage you can do is keeping group from dying and buffing them thats why we have BoK in build, pala is not that good unforunatelly,thats also why we have vindication help the tank with damage reduction due to strength and crit reduction throygh agility reduction and dodge avoidance lesser armor due to agility again, that applies on you too while solo grinding. Ignore the agility nonsense, you cant find good plate with agi except expensive BoE's and high lvl dungeon loot. Its good but dont focus too much on it while leveling( this is leveling advise not end game).
Ignore the creator who selfburned himself on the pinned comment, after suggesting a build and rotation and then goes on to say dont spam the rotation and dont use hammer of wrath... if thats what it takes to make videos these days its a joke. dont propose a rotation thats not viable. SPAM the rotation buy waters. the gold you save from mount at 40 is like 90 mins of farm when you hit 60. spent them to reduce the 1-60 from 8 days to 6 and a half. Check other videos for more advanced stuff like seal twisting. ignore this one. Hope this doesnt get deleted again.
Edit. Just to clarify don't spam the rotation proposed on the video, since I didn't include imp seal of the crusader on talent, just judge command all the time, crusader not worth it for mobs, they die too quick.
Hi! Can You explain what's wrong or give guidance? Thanks😊
@@asdasdasd10qwPretty much what I said above. I replied to another comment.
still slapping together videos from things you seen from other people with no actual experience
too mana intensive to judge and reseal every mob. Better to autoattack with SoC and use that mana just for healing. Should have almost no need to drink if you do that and pull one at a time
Most of the time you don't want to bother with the Judgement of the Crusader since it is more mana and it also takes away you being able to judge Command instead. Most mobs don't last a very long time and so even if you use judgement on cool down you might only get maybe 3 judgement. The damage gained for the +holy damage is not nearly as much as a Judgement of Command. There are a few exceptions to this such as if you are high level and running around using rank 1 Command to save mana, in this case Judgement of Command does not do a lot of damage however by judging Crusader instead you are basically using up the mana for a max level Command anyway so it is likely a Judgement of Command is still better. Anouther example would be fighting an elite or a boss or a mob many level higher than you are. For example, if you decide to fight bellygrub at like lvl 19 or something Judgement of the Crusader would be the way to go. The only problem with this is that in later levels you get better Judgements such as light or wisdom for this purpose. While leveling you almost never use Sac Aura because Ret aura does more damage than Sac aura at almost all times you can even get the +50% Ret aura bonus in the tree. There is only two reasons to use Sac aura and that is if you have anouther paladin in your group using Ret Aura or if you want to pad your damage meter since unless your tanking Ret aura's damage goes to the tank where as Sac aura's damage goes to you. There is one more case and that would be if for some reason a holy priest is dpsing in your group but that almost never happens and therefore does not really count. You dont want to change out your buffs all the time as a paladin going from might to wis and back because everytime you cast wis on yourself you have to wait 5 secs to get your mana regen back and it usually takes 30-60 secs for the blessing of wisdom to make up for the mana lost and then there is the 5 secs switching back to blessing of might. If you plan to fight 1 mobs at a time at your level then Blessing of might is almost always the way to go, but it you are fighting stronger mobs than you often need to heal for then you should go blessing of Wisdom. Imp seal of Crusader is almost worthless and imp judge is also not that great either since it will let you get maybe on more judgement on a mob but at the cost of your mana since it would reduce your mana regen time from 5 secs between judgement to 3 secs. Often times it is not even worth it to judge more than once on a mob anyway so you can front load all you spells so you can regen your mana for the next mob. Imp Parry actually increases your damage as well as your damage reduction since every parry causes your next swing to be 40% faster. +5% parry ends up being like a +2.4% damage buff as well as reducion your need to heal yourself after a fight which will save you 2.5secs run time between mobs sometimes. Precision is generally not the way you want to go since if you are fighting mobs your level your miss chance is only like 5% and that +3% hit rate requires you to spend 5 points into prot. It is really not worth getting unless you already plan on going prot for the future. Especially at that time you have a choice between imp devotion aura and +5% to crit chance with Conviction. At that time you almost always want to put it into crit. Maybe after you are done with the ret talent tree you may go get the +3 hit rating. However, most people put there talent points into holy then to get the +70% anti pushback you can put on your concentration aura on top of that to get +100% no pushback which is very useful if you get into a bad situation as well as consecration which is very good in a lot of situations. Never go eye for an eye for leveling the only use to it is in pvp and generally even then max level pvp since low level people will not crit you that often even then it is only really useful if you are healing yourself and taking mage hits and cant get to them for some reason. All of this is assuming you dont go aoe prot spec or reckoning spec since those actually do more damage than ret does why leveling. The only exception to this is if you run dps in groups, which most people will not let you do past the deadmines and maybe BFD and SFK. You will likely be stuck as the healer or sometimes the tank. Using hammer of justice to increase dps is generally not a good idea either but I can see where you might use rank1 to increase your Judgement of Command assuming you are full of mana and don't expect to need it for saving your life in case of trouble.
Reckoning? And /sit macro? cmon.. we are talking about classic not some private server.
When did I mention a /sit macro? I don't think that was allowed in classic
@@yodasaber1 from this: 'All of this is assuming you dont go aoe prot spec or reckoning spec since those actually do more damage than ret does' --> reckoning spec for leveling? If /sit macro is not the case then can you explain a little bit what you mean?
@@vojtakalab7175 OK. Reckoning spec is viable option (not the best one but viable) without the /sit macro, since mobs your level have a natural 5% crit rate with higher level mobs crit rate increasing (I believe +2 higher is 7% but I con't remember the actual number so take the 7% with a grain of salt). Mobs have a 1-2s attack rate with most mobs attack rate being 2s that means that if you have a slow weapon such as 3.8s (slowest one) that is a 9.5% increase in damage of both your normal damage as well as your procs from Command assuming you have both Command and Reckoning.(with a weapon speed of 3s it will be lower at 7.5% increase) With the +3% increase to hit you can pick up on the way this can be a viable option while leveling. This DPS increase is even larger if for example 2 or 3 mobs attack you at once(being a +19% or 28.5%). It is actually very useful for a couple of mobs at a time since it allows you to gain the ability to burst down one mob to let you be able to 1v1 the second mob afterward. It is also very useful in a pvp realm in which you can be attacked by a Horde player while you are fighting a mob at the same time (it especially destroys rogues that gank you). I am in no way saying that it is the best leveling spec since I think the AOE method is better. However, there are many advantages to this kind of build in late game I would say level 47 at the minimum (maybe like level 50 would be better). This is especially true since at around level 50 you start to get a lot of more fair fights with the opposing faction instead of a level 60 one shoting you. For example, this would be useful in Un'goro Crater, which has a lot of competition.
@@yodasaber1 Reckoning is for sure option.... but you said its better then retribution. I doubt about it. Reckoning is the FIRST talent in prot tree giving you real + damage aspect (ok + hit is dps boost as well) and you sink 20 talent points before to get there... On the other hand retri with Vengeance is better option, less 'wasted' talents, more dps.
this guy is skilling BoM then you will rarely every use it on yourself while leveling o0
i used to prefer BoW but it's much faster just to invest in water instead
so yeah BoM is still better in the end
@@Avrelivs_Gold True, but improved blessing of might at level 60 only increases DPS by 2.6(thats AQ drop blessing)
At level 36 its only 1.2dps
Blessing of might and drinking is faster to a degree then BOW but improved blessing of might is completely useless.
You actually get more DPS out of having to drink less out of benediction.
Honestly this leveling guide is trash.
This issue with Paly is that they suck at DPS, you will always be last on the dps meters in dungeons, this may be "the best" spec for leveling ie. killing mobs and questing, but don't expect to put up big numbers. Even with Wisdom you will kill 2 or 3 mobs at the most until you need to drink. Leveling a Paly has been the slowest most tedious class I have leveled. This build DOES do decent in world PVP I will say though.
nice video, but this is PVE ret spec. wouldnt recommend it for leveling at all. Imp SoCru is not that good, you dont want to judge that, because it wastes a lot of mana. Maybe in pvp against warrior. Just get more points in Deflection. Also grab repentance. HUGE gap closer, and helps you out a lot in many situations, like use it to heal yourself. You have no tools to protect yourself with that build, and youre going to suffer.
i'd recommend going prot then choose as you like. You going to take so much less dmg, and with holy shield you can just go 3 mobs at a time, with seal of light and wisdom on, and you going to do about as much dps as you would do in ret.
@@robertp457 you dont aoe caster groups. Yes its worse than ret in that senerio but prot is so much better after all post lvl 33ish that its not even close. Prot is obj better by a mile.
Agility > Int > STR for paladin....? What the FUCK am i watching? LMAO holy shit. STR > STAM > SPIRIT. 100%. You have to be trolling.
Love the Vids, but this guide mate? The spec, what happened there? Rotation on mobs is making you oom at 1-3 mobs? Seal of crusader to inc your damage makes no sense if its not a boss, elite or hard mob. You can also tip other paladins to farm on undeads cause of the Exorcism. No mention of the lvl 20 wep for paladins? Saving gold on not maxing spells you wont use? Anyways keep up the good work
Corpsemaker - last boss in rfd
from docs? First boss RFK Easy farm
Phase 4
40-50 ish
Will of the mountain giant - weapons of spirit From google doc
(Horde only)
because it's much faster to steadily blast 3 mobs in a minute and then drink water for 5 seconds
@@Avrelivs_Gold Except you won't "blast 3 mobs in a minute" as a Paladin.. it just won't happen... Only on the really low levels
@@nothingEvil101 this is the truest statement. Boy I lost all my sanity leveling in classic
Such a brainless guide.... dude knows ZERO about this game...
No idea why you'd touch Imp BoM, especially as a level 10 talent. It'll add about 2 attack power, just get the reduce cost of seals/judgments
Yeah imp might and still use wisdom xD
mana regen is so underrated but much more worth to decrease down time
Yes.. totally weird putting 5 points into Might while saying you might even use BoM. Ill go Reduced manacost 100%
too basic, not specific at all
Yeah man if only there were a more in depth guide on TH-cam. /s why even waste the time with shit comments like this lmao
disagree with might and eye for an eye would go benediction and parry because of parry haste, defense and mana efficency but yea no big deals
ill buy a bed time book with your voice for my kids when they are to hyper to sleep
You can read them the children's book I have published lmao.
@@MetaGoblin Wait have you actually?
since judgement has 10 yard range wouldn't it make sense to reapply seal immediately after opening with judge so u can proc command on ur first swing? also the holy damage bonus from crusader is not worth the loss of direct damage compared to opening with judgement of command on mobs below a certain hp threshold which is about 30-40s of combat.
You sound so much like Jon Richardson!
I see so many bullshit specs. Anyone who actually had a vanilla paladin knows that Consecrate is a mana sucking hole, but every supposed expert says you need it.... I have only ever used consecrate for pvp and for picking up whelplings in Onyxia.
Why did you omit the Pally quest chain at 20 for Verigan's Fist?
Very time inefficient. Not really worth it imo.
the first 10 points... stop... what are you doing? Benediction 5/5... to save mana... Deflection 5/5 to pary and DPS boost due to parry haste...you are gona use SoC 90% of the time... you waist 10 tallents point on things you are never gona use any way.
Well that was a waste of time. "Which buff should you use? Blessing of Wisdom" then turns around and immediately puts 5 talent points into Blessing of Might. Stopped right there (then proceeds to quote some random "specialist" about using Blessing of Might. Waste. Of. Time.). As a Ret Paladin I'm *always* in need of mana, so I use Wisdom every time. Paladins don't level fast any way you shake it. Anyways, probably best to look elsewhere for suggestions.
5% parry is extreme good while lvling it ressets autoattack almost every 10th hit you got
ye parryhaste is just insane, u need ever deflection 5/5
that's a very poor guide
all kinds of wrong...stop making guides about classes you don't know how to play just for youtube views.
Unpopular opinion: you should use BoW and open with seal of wisdom and instantly do Seal of Command. You almost never drink this way.
Playing reti for 15 years , but pvp mostly . . . In pve errr we kinda suck unless proc as healer , never run out of mana aka shockadin .
Since you said we will be using Blessing of Wisdom, why put points into improving Blessing of Might.
Bro.. wtf are you doing.. devo aura and BoM talents? NOOOOO
not agree
75% speed for a silky smooth listening experience
Not getting parry is a noob mistake.(unless its for dungeon leveling with party and you are not the tank)
Parry an attack=40% reduction on total swing timer down to 20% swing speed.
3.7 weapon gives 16 attacks per minute
Against a mob 3 levels higher assuming max weapon skill for your level.
You will miss 1.44 attacks every min with 9% miss.
You will miss 0.96 attacks every 1 min with 6% miss.(precision)
You will miss 0.96 attacks every 1 min with 6% miss due to Human +5 weapon skill.
You will miss 0.48 attacks every min with 3% miss due to human +5 weapon skill + precision.
Precision gives you 0.48 attacks(hits) a min average extra.
Paladins are not duel wielding 28% miss chance against a mob 3 levels above them like rogues/warriors/hunters.
Most mobs have a 1.2 to 2 second attack speed in the game.
20% of parry will happen below min swing speed limit.
+5% parry gives you ~+0.5 extra attacks a min at 2 second mob attack speed.
+5% parry gives you ~+0.8 extra attacks a min at 1.2 second mob attack speed.
You also take less damage due to parry, if you are getting attacked by multiple mobs the DPS goes up.
At best they are equal but you need to spend gold to respec.
However
The loss crit chance ONTOP due to going into percision completely blows the DPS out the window for full ret deflection vs precision spec.
NOW
If you decided to go deflection and precision then it would be better... till you got 1 extra % to crit...
Honestly no real reason to go into prot and respec.
You might wanna keep in touch with a Blacksmith early on. Very good wep at level 8 and 14... compared to the stuff in the spreadsheet. If you have the support then go for Verigans Fist. He says kinda waste of time but your kill speed goes up like insane so worth imo.
Great video ! Loving Ret, people who say Prot is better are either grouping up to do dungeons or to do the boring pointless aoe grinding, it's my first run through as paladin and with this set up I barely have any downtime, thanks man.
I have to say this guide is pretty garbage. Seal of the Crusader is pretty much pointless when leveling. You should kill most solo mobs within 15-20 seconds. You almost never have time to judge the same target twice, they die too fast. It's not a question about mana efficiency but one of time to kill.
Improved Blessing of Might is pointless when leveling, you should be using Wisdom so you can kill non stop without downtime. If you can judge the target then you judge the target to maximize dmg, there should be very little downtime with Wisdom active. Crusader is something you only judge on an elite or a boss, not normal mobs. Heck I'd even question putting it on elites or bosses if you are in a group, the mob should die before the benefit of just judging Righteousness or Command is passed.
You should only judge SoC if it takes about 30s to kill the mob otherwise not worth wasting that time/mana casting it, and you should use BoW while leveling, always having mana regen means you can always sustain yourself with healing and rely on auto attack procs of SoC and spending the mana on instant judgement dmg or healing yourself, overall this will decrease a lot of down time, can be quite boring but really effective.
What armor set is this in the thumbnail?
Scarlet
Rotation XD Autohit, Autohit, Autohit, Autohit...
Worst paladin guide ever..
Full of crap
can you acctually heal as a paladin with no talents in holy ? Divine Intellect, Spiritual Focues, Healing light is very benefical for both you and your party. I'm considering going 16 / 0 / 35 but i dont know where to put my first points though. Either in Holy or ret. I wane be able to heal in dungeons with my palah
you dont need any healing talents to heal dungeons while leveling. At 60 its even fine to swap out gear to heal dungeons when needed. But Ofc its better to be a holy pally if u want to heal at 60. If you dont lack hit at 60 anymore you can also get the healing light talent and even illumination if you want to be a full supporter and beneficial to the raid. You should have divine intelect in any case as mana as a ret and while leveling is always somewhat of an issue.
@@Mowsenlel as a non-religious person, it would feel un-orthodox to take on healing roles as a retribution spec paladin. Will i have a hard time taking a dps spot as ret for 5-man grps ?
@@jerkerkruse4541 while you are leveling, you can get into groups as ret, as long as you are a decent paladin otherwise and ret damage isn't that bad at the early stages. At level 60 you probably will struggle to find groups.
Is the even point playing paladin it seems that every one says its shit
Depends on what your goals are. It’s the best healer in pve and pvp, can tank any non raid content and has some niche tank duties in raid scenarios like suppression room in bwl, and ret is really strong in pvp. If you’re trying to be top dps in a raid better roll warrior or mage.
Everything about this is incredibly wrong. Your rotations, your talent spec, everything. Pretty BM to make this guide tbh, youre hindering people more than helping
Mowsen is a joke
Great vid
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It is much better for who wants to solo leveling with quests.
Talent tree of course~
But what do I do if I want to make one on the horde?
Wait for TBC
@@FreddyB_
But what if I want to make one on the Protoss?
Sorry.. but this guide is straight up wrong... Strength is the most important.
Is Blacksmith worth for Paladin?
no, as you level the main it's always better to have 2 gathering professions, herbalism and skinning
Bunch of try-hards downvoting this video that have never even reached level 60.
This guy made disclaimers about how a Paladin has many options when it comes to building them and you basement warriors still hop on here talking a bunch of nothing.
This is a good video and more than enough to get you started on a Paladin in classic WoW.
The only bad thing about MMORPGs are the the self righteous autistic community that it is usually riddled with.
No empathy, no kindness and obviously no tact. Just computers spouting cold sentences on whether something is or isn’t meta.
This video helped me and I enjoyed the content in general. 🤘🤓🙏
So bad
Thanks !
Ive watched a few guides. This one works best for my play style. Although MetaGoblin isnt as thorough in explaining details about the ret paladin, his and my play style doesnt rely on procs and mods. Im sure meta's intention isnt meant for top dps as we all know this isnt possible as a ret pally. This play style is strictly meant for solo leveling (at least for me) which is also not a popular decision considering ret pallys are one of the slowest leveling classes. I get why so many people disagree with meta's p.o.v. but I do not.
Will reckoning leveling work in classic?
the whole point behind reckoning was the /sit macro and that isnt gonna work in classic so wasting all those points just to get 1 ability that will work sometimes...not worth it
If you parry that means venegence isnt going to proc as often. Parry talent isnt good for vengence talent
isnt that risky though to skip parry
Unless your playing in a clearly defined group with clear roles, holy and ret paladins must spec in to protection at the very start of the talent points obviously don't start with shield block and may as well get king's when your at it. Unless classic db is wrong. The 3%hit plus 10% improvement of kings then start into your primary talent tree, you will never get that hit from gear.
There is a number of spelling errors in the Google doc, it would look nice if those were fixed, especially the weapon names.
Yeah prot really isn't worth dipping into.
You can just go into holy to get better healing. Get rid of your spell pushback when using healing spells and when you get low, throw on concentration aura and cast holy light or whatever for free.
His whole build is super iffy, but Prot is not a joke. Reckoning builds will outpace any other alternative at 35, and before 35, if you take a 11 holy start (like you should, Consecration is fucking broken for leveling if you use it right), you want redoubt and percision. The former is an incredible value for your points, the later gives you better DPS than anything 8-15 points in ret can offer.
Prot/holy is almost always the way to go for leveling. Ret doesnt get much value out of its tree until the lategame. Vengeance, r1 SoC downranking, and 2h spec are really the only pros to ret, and they all come super late.
lol do you know what hit means in classic?
This is sooo wrong
"cheaper one at level 40" try *FREE* bucko.
This guy literally has about 20% of the idea of paladin side that he’s got no fucking clue what he’s talking about any paladin his worth their knowledge would say that hole he has a better chance of leveling faster to handed weapon and if anyone was using select for Cedar is going to be leveling with gear funneled to them don’t try to fuck in Cham Sail can level with you can’t fucking level PVP tree don’t like Kalin has three trees one of them is PVP and two PVE
What in the world did you just type? It’s completely incomprehensible
Anyone considering going Ret Paladin for melee... keep this in mind.
When you hear how they "SUCK" and others claim they are "AWESOME"
Paladin
Seal of command(70% weapon damage) procs 7 times per minute.
Hunter
Raptor strike(100% weapon damage+ bonus damage) is on demand every 6 seconds for 10 attacks a minute.
@Keith Depending on the patch and I am not sure about 1.12
SOC can be
Dodged
Parried
Resisted outright(5% chance)
Glancing blow(half damage)
Higher level mobs have a higher chance of resisting your Divine damage outright.
Paladins don't suck, but due to lack of equipment at 60 and lackluster base DPS they SUCK in DPS. Which was my point between a ranged char melee ability and Paladins ability.
If people take ret and expect to do good DPS or allowed in raids they will be pissed when they find out its a big fat NO.
the Half in Pally(half in ret/prot) for SOC and Reckoning is the funniest damn PVP class in game.
Add on a hand of justice and Elemental Deck(both of which can proc off both normal attack and SOC and each other) and you end up with a Rek bombing LOLZ that can if the RNG gods smile upon you One shot ANY other CLASS in the game.
But let us not forget that huntards a dickheads - case and point, the above comment.
I'm gonna be leveling with a mage so what spec shall I put my points into?
But, you cant be paladin in classic!
Lol
lol what you smoking.
I am a Protection Paladin. =)