Absolutely. Binger went after Rittenhouse for using using FMJs. There is no right answer, just do your best to avoid something that is obviously the wrong answer, like RIP lol
I grew up in Maryland (blue state) and my house gotten broken into when I was out of the country. They broke into the safe and stole some "evil assault" weapons and at court when they caught the guy the prosecutor acted like anyone who had those weapons should be put in jail. I left that state shortly thereafter.
@@philondezthis is really sad... if someone is about to kill you, why wouldn't you want to use the most effective tool, or in this case ammo? FMJ might just zip through someone without much effect. RIP rounds would have a much better effect. There should be no repercussion for choosing the right tool. In the end, the attacker chose the battle, not the defender.
Two cases. One man used hollow-point ammo to defend himself against a home invasion. Another man used jacketed rounds to defend himself against a home invasion. Both invaders were killed. Both were prosecuted for using "excessive force". In one case, because the hollow-point was excessively deadly. In the other case, because the jacketed round was "armor piercing". Same prosecutor in both cases. Its not about the ammo, its about the political views of the prosecutor in the case.
As a former cop the term “excessively deadly” is such a bulls&@# term. But it’s great for a lawyer trying to persuade a bunch of randoms that you are mean and scary. There’s just lethal force… you can’t get any deader than dead.
@The_SmorgMan exactly. If I heard some bullshit like excessively deadly and my lawyer didn't rip into that shit, I'd probobly fight my lawyer for being a dipshit, and go to jail at that point for that and then lose my case at the same time... hahaha
I ended up going to trial over a self defense shooting. The gun I used was a Glock 27. I had 40 cal hollow point rounds. The prosecutor did bring up the hollow point issue claiming I was carrying the most deadly type of ammunition. This happened in Anchorage AK and the police that responded all testified. My lawyer asks each of them what gon they carried. All of them carried either a Glock 22 or 23. My lawyer then asked what type of ammunition they carried and of course they all carry hollow point ammunition. Both their guns and ammunition were issued by the police department. That pretty much destroyed the hollow point argument. I was found not guilty.
At the time of the defensive shooting did you have a USCCA membership that has a "lawyer on retainer"? Or did you just Google an attorney after they arrested you?
Personally i believe in self defense3 scenario's, it shouldn't matter what ammo you use. The only thing that should be questioned is whether your actions were within the law. The ammo is legal to sell and buy so should not be an issue in a trial.
The irony of them calling hollow points "Cop-Killer" bullets when every cop in America carries hollow points. My 5 years as LEO we carried Speer Gold Dot 124g everyday to stop crackheads and euthanize opossums on the road. Yes, I worked in Florida.
@@johngriffiths118 most opossums were good lads. Only euthanized them because they’d get hit by cars. But meth’d out rabid raccoons were a thing as well as pythons who loved the warmth of clothes dryers.
And it's a pretty solid defense in court if the prosecutor gets uppity and tries to go on about your deadly cruelty bullets, to point out it's the exact same ammo used by .
In Peru (South America), it is literally illegal to carry with anything other than hollow point. The reasoning is that other rounds may pass through the targeted person and hit someone else. If you are caught carrying with anything other than hollow point you lose your gun license.
I would like to visit peru. I have kind of been to peru before. In the deep jungle, on the amazon. But what do you think the chances are for a non resident to get the authority to carry in peru as a non-citizen.
@metalandwood9510 I was a resident in the process of doing so, but moved away before I had a chance to finish the paperwork. I can tell you that even for a resident, it was not a quick and easy process. Like any South American country, though, there are always ways to make things happen if you get to know the right people. Just to own a gun you need to join a gun club, have them sign off on your mental state, demonstrate to a government administrator your gun competence (safety and accuracy) and be able to identify all parts of a gun... in Spanish. From what I remember, to carry you first needed to pass a security check that includes (for US citizens) a letter from the FBI. I actually can't remember the rest but I was still gathering the documents when we decided to move away (due to covid and a deteriorating political situation).
@@metalandwood4uif you have money (doesn’t take much in South America) and the right friends, anything is possible. Just be aware that South America is an extremely dangerous place. That taxi cab you are taking might turn down a street and someone is waiting to rob you. The bus drivers make one phone call and all of the sudden the bus is getting robbed. Lots of dirty games people play but on the other hand very good people in these countries. Best to stick to the areas people tell you are safe and nothing ever good happens after dark. I did some very stupid things in Bolivia and Chile. I am surprised I was not killed.
In the Rittenhouse trial the prosecutor tried to characterize his FMJ bullets as especially dangerous due to their higher chance of overpenetration and potentially hitting a bystander. It doesn't matter what you use, they'll spin it against you.
and yet could not find one single bullet that over penetrated anything. I don't see how he isn't in jail for suborning perjury. His opening witness and he showed him an upper and asked the witness to identify Rhittenhouse's gun when no gun was even shown to the witness. Then did it again showing a parallax sight and asking him to identify the scope, when there was no scope shown.
@@mrmoofle This isnt true. Hollow points are legal in every single state. New Jersey has a restriction on them. But, you can still buy and own them in New Jersey.
Imagine a prosecutor pulling out ads for the "Interceptor" ammo, that opens up into a wide "x" shape, or "Inceptor" ammo, that has spinning grooves in it to send out a shock wave through wet flesh to cause maximum initial damage. -- In any case, on the question of intent, both of the first two guys should have said, "I didn't load my carry gun with the intent of harming anyone innocent. I loaded it to protect myself from violent criminals, who may be jacked up on God-knows-what drug."
@@connercurzio3645 has a hollow point ever tickled your weenie? 😂😂😂 dude I'm fuckin terrified of that happening, but appendix is so much more comfy in every day life
My father, retired prosecutor and criminal defense attorney, WWII and Korean Marine Vet, went to get a concealed permit for his handgun, due to some gang trouble in the neighborhood. The Police officer that issued the permit told him, "please use hollow points to reduce the chance of hitting unintended targets or pass-through problems". Yea, he used hollow points.
Or the super high grain ammo police often use because of that. It isn't a hollow point but it mainly just oddly flips at the target, loses pretty much all power up on impact but will do a lotta damage to the target when a 180-200gr. .40 cal smashes into it at some weird sideways angle.
In a self Defense situation anything Available or in the Clip at the Time..will be that choice at the Time... if it's Critical Defense Hollowpoint Ammo it's there for a Reason... in My Defense... which if your life is On the Line.. it's Pretty Critical... Right???
It sucks that you can be judged based on either using "too lethal" ammo, or crappy ammo which means you have to shoot the bad guy a couple dozen times and they will say you shot them too many times.
Unless you live in Brazil or are part of a street gang or are a cop, the likelihood of you having to use multiple rounds in a self defense situation is incredibly low, I dare say 1 in 100,000. Most, MOST self defense situations end with the first shot regardless of whether you hit the target or not. People generally don't like to hang around when getting shot at.
There were some fun statistics about that: hollow points end a fight quicker with less shots, yet the survival rate of these shooting went up with HP. This alone would be reason enough to call HP "more humane" with FMJ you need a lot more bullets and they stop a target when he is already almost dead...
Law ~ from the Latin for 'ultimate' or highest truth. ie The Laws of physics are 100% repeatable. 'TRUTH enforcement' is an oxymoron, as truth is self evident and never has to be ENFORCED. I'll call the 'truth', 'truth'er, it's the 'truth', ya the way you professional sophist use it, doesn't meet the common sense test. aka genetic memory test (ever see a beaver in engineering school??) Attorneys practice in a court of RECORD, were they establish 'facts' of record. ie they make no attempt at finding the truth, it's opinion.
I've always used and told others that what YOUR State Troopers use, buy the same. 1. They are provided for by the State's taxes, which YOU pay. Whether directly in indirectly, YOUR taxes pay for their ammo. If it's good enough for the State to use, it's good enough for the citizen.
I heard a lecture on the matter a while ago. They said the best thing you could do is research the ammo used by the local police department and use that as your carry ammo as long as it is legal for civilian use. A prosecutor is going to have a hard time saying your ammo is excessively deadly if the local jurisdiction uses it. He’d be attacking his local mayor and police chief’s policy.
"Oh, you're using the local police's ammo? That box of Federal HST even says 'Law Enforcement' on it. Are you law enforcement? Do you have the hundreds or [sic] thousands of seconds of firearms training that the local police have to know how to use that ammo? You must think you're some kind of vigilante..." -A prosecutor, somewhere, maybe, eventually I think one of the points of the video was supposed to be that if your choice of ammo comes up in the courtroom, then you either did something wrong and it's a window dressing for the prosecution, or the prosecution is just gun-owner-thirsty and you're going to have an expensive defense regardless of what your ammo choice was. Face it, ANY gear or training decision you made prior to the shooting is "evidence" that you were out to get somebody if the prosecutor is out to get you, and you will need lawyers and money to go with your guns.
@@chaz720 One state "recognizes" my states carry permit. We don't have reciprocity. So which states law do I follow when they conflict? I don't have that states permit, so do I follow MY states law since that is what the permit is for? It is a corrupt DA's dream clause.
@@robertsmith2956 While there is some weirdness with purchasing/transfer of a firearm when you're visiting another state, by and large the laws that matter for carrying and/or shooting are the laws of the state where the carrying and/or shooting happen.
The advice I got from the guy who trains my police department is for citizens and even cops to use whatever ammo their local law enforcement use. That way your defense is you use exactly what the cops who protect your community use
@@JamesReeves against what this is not a simulation it's a hypothetical. I would like to think in the event of some kind of terrorism there is some crossover like NATO and such
@CarlosPEnis if the grain weight and velocity is vastly different from the rounds she's used to it might be good to take her to range. New ammo could have different point of impact and recoil impulse. Respect for making sure ur family members are safe, keep it going brother
As a retired cop, who as part of my job wrote department policies, was a use of foce and firearms instructor. Our department used hollow-points because they are less likely to over penetrate and or ricochet.
I agree. JHPs are literally what I’ve been told to Defence carry since my first pistol purchase. Exactly for the reason of over penetration when using ball.
I love the idea of having my money stolen from me so it can given to someone that willingly contributed to a broken system and violated their fellow Americans rights. Tell us, would you willingly arrest a man that was charged with using hollow points in a self-defense situation if told to do so? We've already seen how you all reacted during the COVID lockdowns. So, my guess is you would most definitely do it, even if you said no. Got to get that retirement money, right? Can't give that up. "Yes sir, I'll violate the rights of whoever you ask."
@@Ambusher1st people are not getting arrested for using hollow point ammo. I frequently refused orders that I felt were unethical. Probably played a huge role why I was never an administrator. Yes I am happy with my retirement, it's not as great as you think, but I worked decades for it.
Speaking as a former LEO, the ONLY rounds we referred to as "cop killer bullets" were of the armor piercing variety which are anything but "hollow point"! How can a defense attorney worth his pay allow a prosecuting attorney mischaracterize a bullet virtually identical to what police carry as nefarious?
I always heard that 'cop killer' rounds were the Teflon coated rounds, especially the Black Talon rounds. Those then became illegal as doctors were literally slicing open their fingers when trying to remove the bullets. When I was a Sheriff's Explorer riding patrol, that was always our greatest fear. The 5.7x28mm hadn't come out yet and ine of the deputies I knew had gotten shot with multiple 7.62x39mm rounds. His soft vest caught 2 rounds barely, they still went inside him but not deep, and 2 went completely through his vest. That's when we started wearing the plates inside the vest. Supposedly Black Tallons would go through that too, but I don't know. You wanted to get hit with hollow points though. When they flare out and expand, the bullet gets caught in the Kevlar fibers. Not that anyone ever wants to get shot, but the choice if you had to pick one would be that.
@@clifbradley Black Talon ammo was not armor-piercing. And I challenge anyone to document a single case of an officer being killed by having his/her armor pierced by an AP handgun bullet.
They call hollow point and ap cop killer bullets. So any bullet you use will be called cop killer bullets 😂 it's so dumb and ridiculous if it wasn't for real. Just shows you how evil our government is.
Yes but you can also make up for it by having high velocity 1700 fps hollow points. But then again an fmj won't do anything better than a hollow poin even when trying to pierce armor. The fmj only has an advantage in shooting through drywall I'm guessing
@@jason200912 I refer you to Paul Harrells review on the g9 defense "external hollow point". Solid copper bullet with the strange dual qualities of superior soft armor penetration AND a wider wound channel and with huge energy dump on soft targets. They're expensive, but well worth it in my opinion. Surviving is my first priority, what comes after comes after.
1700 fps pistol rounds are incapable of defeating level 3 body armor. Any intermediate rifle cartridge would though. Those 2,000+ fps 60 grain cci defender loads are sitting with the rip ammo, in potentially being too efficient to be effective. They both dump their energy immediately without penetrating far enough. All pistol ammunition is too heavy and slow for safe home defense. Even the hollow points can pass through multiple walls if no studs are in the way. .223 rem from a 10.5" or longer barrel, or frangible bullets are the safest bet for avoiding over penetration. Garand thumb has a decent video on home wall penetration
Here in TEXAS in a CC class we were told NOT to use FULL METAL JACKETS for the main reason it can go through the person and walls and strike another person. 🤷🏻♂️ So YES to hollow points.
During the Rittenhouse trial the prosecution tried to say Kyle just wanted to hurt people because he had fmj ammo so either way they'll say whatever they think will make the jury against the defendants.
Those prosecutors were seriously stupid. I'm no lawyer, but they fucked up a lot of simple things, like producing the mayor's curfew order to get a conviction on breaking curfew. Honestly, I'd love to see @JamesReeves do a reaction video to the Rittenhouse video and that entire trial.
We saw it in the Rittenhouse trial. If you use M193 the prosecutor will say, “it’s military ammo meant to penetrate, fragment and cause maximum carnage”. If you carry hollow points they’ll say, “they literally explode inside people why would anyone need this?”.
Yeah but it made him look like an idiot for even trying that he was laughed at like a fool I almost think he threw that case on purpose but he tried to put on a show for political points. Any reasonable person would just say that's what I found on the shelf at the store I didn't systematically pick certain ammo I just bought what they had
If I remember correctly, In Kyle Rittenhouse trial the prosecution tried to use the fact he was using FMJ against him. Because they are ‘super deadly and can penetrate multiple targets at once’ or something. It didn’t stick, but goes to show no matter what you use they will try and hold it against you.
That’s the trade off. Jacketed ammo has penetration issues that can get you in trouble. Hollow Points do more damage but don’t penetrate, so same issue.
I just rewatched a short documentary of that incident. So odd watching people chase a man who clearly has an ar-15. Then,. " He just shot somebody, get him" ugh, you sure about that?
@@jdizzle6324 - Leftists be crazy. Their reason for going after him? He tried to move a dumpster they set ablaze away from the building they were trying to burn down.
I used to read Massad Ayoob and other firearm magazines and I was always led to believe that hollow point ammunition was much less likely to over penetrate the body than FMJ making them safer for innocent people who happen to be in the vicinity of a lawful shooting, this is in addition to the fact that hollow points are more likely to stop a fight before a perp can continue to cause harm
It fucks me up that these "prosecutors" keep calling hollow points "cop killers" when they're literally the exact opposite of what those rounds were... pointed jacketed rounds coated in teflon designed to penetrate a kevlar vest is NOT a hollow point round. I guess never expect someone who supposedly knows the law and is trying to imprison you for likely the rest of your life to know all the facts 🙄Love these vids btw
Exactly what I was thinking. Idk y they are called "cop killers" when they are not meant for " armor piercing " it would make more sense to me if they referred to something like a 5.7x28 handgun with black dragon fang rounds as "cop killers"
I’ve still got a handful of those black talon “cop killers” from before the Clinton era, I have no idea how they do against Kevlar but just by looking at them I’m guessing it’s a gimmick
Thanks man, this will probably be the best thing I read today. A little behind-the-scenes, this is something I’ve been wanting to do for years because it combines two things that I’m passionate about on a technical level, I honestly thought this series was going to fall flat on its face.
@@JamesReeves Please keep them coming. I think a more educated carrier is a safer one and I believe you're doing a lot of good with this series. That and they provide a solid and sober yin to the yang that is the beer-drinking, hot pants-wearing, manifesto-recieving James we all love.
@JamesReeves I really love the legal aspect of 2A, your AR15 potentially sending someone to jail video was one of the most informative ive seen, I never would have considered it would have been that bad. Keep doing the Lords work, Godspeed.
I was told by my CWP instructor who testifies for defendants to use what the local cops use. In my case that’s Hornady Critical Defense hollow points. It’s much more difficult to paint a defendant as cruel or vicious when you use what cops do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the reason for using hollow points, besides being more effective, is because they're designed to not go through your target so if you're defending yourself you're not inadvertently hitting other people on the other side of your intended target
This is why the law in the US is unequal, if you can afford good representation they will bring all that to the jury and will have good expert testimony. Not just to bring the facts to the jury but charismatic experts with a proven track record of being able to convince the jury, that alone can make the difference in a trial. If someone is stuck with a public defender they have to hope its a genuine person that wants to help defendants, even then they dont have the networks or funding to get the best experts. God help the defendant if the public defender is a lawyer with a failed career, an overworked one or one in bed with the prosecutors. Then its half arsed or ineffective defence, too hassled to really focus on one case or they spend half of their working time in the prosecutors office working out who can be convinced to plead out and for what with them.
Every lawyer's video I've seen on what to carry or not to carry always seems to eventually boil down to: "I can't say for sure, the prosecution will use anything against you." It always seems like the circumstances of the shoot are always going to matter significantly more than the perfomance enhancing accessories, caliber or bullet construction choice.
@@joeg5414 not even that. Unless the criminal injured themselves in your home without your involvements it's consistent all around. Even Rittenhouse, having defended himself in Wisconsin, had to face a civil suit, but if he had done it in an antigun state of IL, he would not face the charges because he won the criminal case. It's not so black and white.
Just a point of history; The term "cop killer bullets" was first used to get armour piercing ammo made illegal. Back when officers were starting to wear body armour, various media outlets and anti 2A groups made this charge as a way to vilify AP ammunition. What it actually did was inform criminals that cops were wearing armour, something that wasn't widely known at the time, resulting in, according to an NRA article at the time, more attempts by criminals to shoot officers in the head. The fact they are now calling hollow points, bullets expressly designed to mitigate excessive penetration "cop killer" bullets is the pinochle of evidence that they are completely unethical, and will say whatever they think will allow them to win, regardless of how incorrect it is.
I thought the most important reason to use hollow point ammo in a self defense situation was because ball ammo can penatrate through one person and into another. The opening tip of a hollow point round is supposed to help prevent this from happening. I also understand a person should always no, and understand what is behind the target, but in a amped up situation like that , things happen quickly.
I forget exactly which one, but in one of the three cases, the defense tried to use that angle, and apparently it may have been unpersuasive. I think it was the case where the detective testified. But then again, who is to say, because the facts were pretty bad in both cases. The take away is that prosecutors have definitely used hollowpoint arguments successfully in a number of reported cases.
@@bailey9r Then the case should either be thrown out or redone, since the defendant didn't have a jury of PEERS... i.e. citizenry with working knowledge of firearms. You can't expect an ignorant civilian to be able to put forth a accurate decision if they're not fully informed and knowledgeable.
@@FluffPuffkotj Both LAPD and NYPD specifically have incidents on record where an officer's FMJ bullet overpenetrated a perp and hit an innocent bystander but I don't believe the bystander was killed, they were obviously injured. On top of the scores of innocent people struck and killed when the cops missed most of those initial shots anyways.
The thing about hollow-point ammunition is that the expansion of the bullet transfers more energy into the target, and this causes the bullet to penetrate less than a solid "ball" round. So, JHP is the responsible choice since it is literally designed to stop within your target and not overpenetrate to hit someone else.
Exactly! I think it was NY cops who decided they were having too many "friendlies" killed by over penetration and hitting innocent people. That is when they switched to Hollow Points. Reference USCCA Concealed Carry and Home Defense Fundamentals book.
There is a reason the FBI has penetration criteria for ammunition and over penetration is a fail. Optimal self defense ammunition expands to the designed diameter and expends all of its energy in the object then stays in the object. The only thing I'd want full penetration and more is large, dangerous game like Brown Bear and Cape Buffalo.
I always choose hollow points for both safety and effectiveness. The safety aspect being reduced chances of over penetration. Effectiveness being more energy delivered to the target. At first glance that might sound cruel, but think about it. If one or two well placed rounds stop the threat, as opposed to a greater number of FMJs is favorable in three ways: 1) Threat stopped faster with less opportunity for your attacker to advance on your position and take you out; 2) In the case of multiple attackers you can potentially stop more threats with fewer rounds before needing a reload; 3) The more rounds you fire, the tougher your self defense case will be in court, not to mention additional chances of harm beyond the target. While multiple threats all at once aren't your typical self defense situation, anyone who has patrolled, worked or lived in an area with a lot of gang activity should train for that possibility!
Currently in the police academy. My instructors have said that people should use the same ammo that their local PD uses. Speer Gold Dots are a good choice in my area because most of the agencies around here use it. Enjoying the series!
@@HGRAP1not beyond asking someone in the know. But for many many years, NYPD carried (maybe still does) G19s with Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. Either that, or the 124/147gr Federal HST are both tried and true.
Since everyone is responsible for evey bullet from the time it leaves the barrel to the time it stops. Gold dot control penetration hollow points are a great choice.
If you use hollow points they will try to use that against you. If you dont use hollow points they will try to use that against you. Its the same with med kits. If you have one and are involved in a shooting and dont use it on the person you shot they will use that against you. If you do use it they will.use thst as an example of how you didnt feel your life was in danger. This guys job isnt to find the truth. His job is to get a conviction. There is no magical rite way to do things that doesnt leave him with anything to use.
And if you do try to save someone's life, they can and almost certainly will still sue you for medical malpractice (or whatever legal term they would apply) because you invariably didn't do it right because you're not a doctor. And doctors still get sued.
@Borderline5440 Don't take your legal advice from Seinfeld Anybody can sue you for anything but most jurisdictions have Good Samaritan laws to easily defend against the claim you made. The exact wording per place varies but it is still a strong defense in general against your claim.
@@slimjim2584 Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still get stuck with defense lawyer's fees even if you're justified in your actions. People can and have gotten sued for rendering aid.
There is a place in our society for a defense attorney who defends a man he knows is guilty. But there is a special place in Hell for a district attorney who prosecutes a man he knows is innocent.
Hollow points are designed to not over penetrate. Thus, you are actually being safer to anyone else who may be in the vicinity if you need to discharge your weapon for self-defense.
Not only are they effective for self-defense, but they are also designed to NOT go through someone and hit an unintentionally person behind your target.
I remember watching the Rittenhouse trial and they were dragging him for using FMJ. Literally the cheapest type of range ammo. Point is they don’t like guns so they don’t like ammo. There is no correct ammo choice to them. Use whatever the police use for self defense.
Something something WEAPONS OF WAR!!!!! (Of course FMJ is standard military issue because it's LESS lethal and is thus required by the Hague Convention.)
They threw the book at rittenhouse because he was killing protesters, and there was, immense political pressure to prosecute him. This is because Rittenhouse worship quickly devolved into "he's so based because he killed liberal protesters!" and most of it had nothing to do with self defense, you can tell the people supporting him would have supported him if he was shooting down from rooftops at unarmed people. So if you're a liberal, and you see an army of people worshipping the idea of murdering you, and you see them liking the idea of murdering protesters, you want to prosecute the guy who started that trend, try to discourage it, because you know if he walks free it will embolden the nutjobs, so they don't go out and kill people. And despite what the media tells you, no, the 2020 protesters were not all rabid animals who deserved to die. Personally I would not want an army of armed thugs to cooperate with police to murder and crack down on protesters protesting police corruption and brutality. But knowing this channel im sure there are a lot of racist pro police corruption folks, so go ahead, downvote me and call me some random slurs.
Also should be noted if you live in New Jersey, it is specifically illegal to shoot a person with hollow points outside of your home. Certain alternatives are allowed though (and would probably help in other states if a prosecutor is trying to use your ammo choice as “intent to kill), like Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense.
I believe the term "cop killer bullet" in association with hollow points originated from the Mel Gibson film Lethal Weapon. In the movie, the bullets are depicted as being capable of defeating armor.
Actually the cop killer rounds in Lethal Weapon 2 were a pointed FMJ that went through kevlar vests......that said, at one point Riggs calls an SMG a MAC 10 with "twin carbines"......huh? WTF are twin carbines? A carbine is a short barelled rifle. But I guess the writers thought the line sounded cool so they shoved it in there. Movies are rarely firearms accurate.
@@bobbressi5414 It was Lethal Weapon 3 (2 was the South Africans) and I don't remember that the movie actually defined how the bullets were constructed. They only show one for about 2 seconds on the screen and it has a red-ish, pointed, tip. Later on, the same SMG (presumably in 9mm, since we see Riggs fire a round from it out of his Beretta earlier) shoots straight through a loader bucket and _instantly_ kills the main bad guy who took maybe 1 or 2 hits _after_ going through plate steel... 😂 Anyhow... In reality, right about that time Chinese ammunition, some having steel cores, was banned from importation for unrelated reasons. Simultaneously various entities were conflating "Black Talons" (ie, any hollow point) to steel core (and going after Black Talons, by name, because of a single shooting... because they had a scary name), _and_ we had various Teflon coated ammunition out there that were falsely claimed to be "armor piercing". "They" were calling all of that ammo "cop killers", because the people doing it had no idea what they were talking about. They still don't know what they're talking about today either... So, during this period of time anything that wasn't military ball was a "cop killer" in the uneducated public zeitgeist. This was all at the height of the '94 ban era (LW3 being released in '92) so any lie or exaggeration was a good enough one to run with to help advance that agenda. This was the same era that got the _Sporting Purposes Automatic Shotgun_ (ie., SPAS-12, another Hollywood favorite) banned for not being suitable for sporting purposes and the _Lady's Home Companion_ being invented (then banned) because the name "Street Sweeper" was just too scary. It didn't have to make sense, it just had to sound like it did. Again, nothing has changed. I love the LW movies, but their political agendas (I believe that were largely pushed by Danny Glover himself) were far and away their downfall. The good news is that they were rammed in so poorly that it's very easy to simply ignore them and just focus on the antics and action. I *still* don't fully understand the plot of LW2. 😆
Yup, the same way Die Hard 2 perpetuated the myth the Glocks are made of porcelain and can get through airport security without being detected. The general public is dumb. They believe whatever the media or movies tell them. According to Hollywood suppressors completely remove any auditory signature.
To be fair, HP rounds are useless against vests and plates. If you hate our super militarized police, then you absolutely want them using the least effective ammo possible.
The number one reason hollow points are used for defense is because the round loses energy in the target preventing over penetration thus being a safer round to use in public vs fmj which is likely to over penetrate and hit whoever is beyond the intended target. The larger wound cavity is secondary to the fact that it’s a safer round to prevent innocent bystanders from being struck.
As a former Forensic Firearms Examiner who has testified in over 300 trials, the turn “CopKiller” was only referred to as armor piercing ammunition. If called to the stand, I would have testified the term was being used improperly. I would also have said the hollow point ammunition is designed to stop a threat or animal weather it be self defense or hunting game. I have never had to testify about the types of projectiles used. As a forensic expert, we had to use proper terms, not improperly used street terms.
This is anecdotal, but I was recently a juror in a murder case. While it was mentioned that the defendant had hollow point ammo in their firearm, that detail did not get much attention. During deliberation, we had a few firearm owners weigh in on the circumstances and we did not have much if anything to say about the kind of ammo used. We focused on other evidence, mainly phone records, about what happened moments before the shooting to determine if it was premeditated or not.
That is why I will never dodge jury duty. It is my duty as a citizen to stop the state from railroading people. Picking the right reading material is a nightmare. First one struck because prosecutor saw my book, and didn't want anyone with a science background. I guess he planned on introducing fake science evidence. Wouldn't have worked out well anyways, they were letting the state witnesses have the jury chairs, and forced the jurors to sit on the hard benches for the observers. That would have been bad for the DA if I had to sit on that uncomfortable bench for the trial.
I’ve got a client that is a defense attorney and he has always said carry what your local cops carry and it is hard for the government to argue that you used some kind of deadly prohibited death-dealer ammo.
Insane. Here in Denmark the Police began using 9mm hollowpoints because of the stopping power, and because of the lower risk of over penetration, and thereby collateral damage.
That's the main reason to want hollow points, 100%. Increased stopping power means that you don't have to land as many hits to defend yourself. Fewer hits means fewer shots fired, which means fewer missed shots and therefore fewer chances of collateral damage. Hollow Point rounds have less risk of over penetration, so you also have reduced odds of sending a round into an unlucky bystander, despite hitting the person you're defending yourself from. These are obvious arguments that any defense lawyer should easily be able to use.
In Oregon, the concealed carry training from the Oregon state sheriffs' association specifically recommends hollow point for self defense because jacketed rounds are more likely to over penetrate and harm a bystander.
Can't fmj also send me to prison because the excuse "oh you could have overpenetrated and hit someone else with your bullet, you are very reckless and deserve prison"?
I use the same round the local police do. Oddly enough a hollow-point made by Hornady called TAP. This was recommended by the local DA as "its use was consistent with law enforcement."
If you use the same ammunition used by the LEO's in your area, your ammo choice cannot possibly be used to your detriment should you face trial, whether criminal or civil.
The goal is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. One fact that is rarely brought up is that full metal jacket ammo will typically penetrate deeper and can cause a risk to people other than the suspect. 20 years in law enforcement and my off duty carry is either a Glock 33 in .357 Sig or a Glock 30SF in .45ACP, both loaded with Winchester Ranger T Series ammo.
Luckily for you as an off duty officer you have very little to worry about in a self defense situation while your next door neighbor might get prosecuted for using "evil killer hollow point ammo" or "evil armor piercing full metal jacket" ammo to stop an armed intruder. Nothing against you but that's just the reality of the situation. The DA is MUCH more likely to after a non-cop and they will do anything to get another win even if it's a an obvious case of legit self defense. Just like they have done in the past. They will twist your type of ammo either way just to get a conviction.
In the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, I believe the defense made the comment that it doesn't matter what ammo you use, the prosecutor is going to ask why you didn't use the other type? When using hollow point, they ask why did you use exploding bullets. If you use FMJ, they ask why are you using military rounds.
@@Philmoscowitz Reeves has a disclaimer up at 1:58 stating as much. Plus, as xxxod points out, magazine fed revolvers are a level of ridiculous only an A.I. could generate.
A friend of mine is a retired LEO. He told me of an incident where an attacker was shot 5 times with 45acp ball and was still an active threat. Certainly an outlier, but still makes you think.
@@JamesReeves Expand your research to cases involving all NFA items. The last I looked into it, there were 2 different guys who defended themselves with machine guns and their stories are completely insane (as were their prosecutions). The AI renderings will be priceless.
@@JamesReeves definitely curious about NFA items as well. Considering how an AR is often cited as most effective vs. previous video on jail time, and then extrapolating to SBR’s being even more effective in close quarters vs. “extra evil” NFA firearms/suppressors. Also wondering how naming may affect outcome, I.e. military designation on DD Mk 18 vs defense in name of DD PDW.
@@RW7579 The spoiler alert here (at least in the 2 cases I'm thinking of where machine guns were involved) is that the defendants had slam-dunk self defense cases and spent _years_ defending themselves in court simply because they used machine guns to do it. In any conversation about NFA items being used defensively, eventually those two cases come up and the short answer becomes: "Don't". With suppressors and SBRs becoming more popular during the internet age, there are probably more NFA cases to pull data from by now, but those were the 2 big ones for years.
2:28 James, that generative AI with the fully loaded high capacity assault revolver bullet cartridge clipazine had me rolling on the floor! Same with the investigator holding hands ( 8:42 ) with “Dr. Bob!” 😂 Please keep up the fantastic work!
here is the thing if i was defending myself in court and the DA was trying to paint a picture that i was a mean killer trying to kill some one that i shoot, and not focused on defending myself but rather murder, i would call to the stand a fire-arms expert and have them say to the court that Hollow points are designed for stopping power and to stop a person from doing what it is they are doing in self defense case trying to seriously harm some one to kill them.. I would also state that Using Hollow points is more responsable way to carry a gun because your less likely to to harm an innocent bystander with Hollow points rather then full metal jacket where it can pass though the bad person and hit a good person behind them.. Then i would have the expert ask do Police use Hollow Points in their carry guns on Duty, when he says yes, i would say then does that mean they are looking to kill people they are shooting on duty? then he would say no just to stop the suspect, then why are they not labeled killers trying to kill who ever they shoot? You see i would make sure the Jury knows it goes both ways.. This would be a very easy argument to squash the DA's nonsense strategy that one who has hollow points are looking to kill.. In fact i would be able to make sure the jury Agree's that one who has hollow points is responsable and trying to not harm others around the person they are trying to shoot and not also have a bullet hit houses and cars or any one other innocent bystanders.. 3 Reasons i carry hollow points.. (1) to Assure i stop who ever is trying to harm me, (2) not potentially hit some one else or something else like a house or car or bike other then who ever i'm trying to shoot.. (3) which is related to #2 not have a full metal jacket bullet pass though my target and not faze my target allow him / her to continue to do what they are doing and maybe they might not even know they was shot.. Where a Hollow point you will know you was shot and it will more likely incompassionate my target and stop them from their motion of what ever it is they are doing which i'm defending myself against..
@@accuratealloys IT is no claim its a fact. Democrats' ARE soft on crime. The other side is that they do in fact try to prosecute people that try to defend themselves and others, Which is essentially defending the criminals and thus SOFT ON CRIME. Don't act like the open looting that is constant in California is not happening as well.
I was surprised to learn that some states ban the possession or use of hollow point ammunition and only allow for law enforcement. Such as NJ. What an infringement.
Except if the hollow point has a polymer tip like critical defense, NJ doesn’t consider the point to be hollow. Because the people who write Nj gun laws have zero gun knowledge
My local gun shop in San Diego recommended hollow points for the home protection. They said it's because the full metal jacket have a way higher chance of going through the bad guy then into your neighbors house/apt. I agreed
@@joalvarez6252I didn't mean to offend. But this idea of "cop killer bullets" is just silly. If the cop is wearing a vest, what's going to get though it? Is a lead .45 shell of any type? I don't know, but I'm guessing not. But tungsten weighs 1.7 times that of lead for the same volume. Which means you could machine a dart that was small enough that it would penetrate any vest, but still weigh the same as a lead bullet. It would be very expensive to have someone make this for you, though. Like I said, I didn't mean to offend. It was just an offhand comment.
I carry Hornady Critical Duty because my edc is a duty sized firearm. The Hornady Critical Duty was designed for law enforcement and with the possibility of needing to consistently penetrate different barriers before having to get to the threat and with the federal penetration standards in mind. The critical duty will consistently penetrate barriers like automotive glass, body panels etc, it has that little polymer type plug in the hollow portion of the round to stop barriers like denim from clogging the round and preventing expansion. It’s not the best round at penetrating ballistic gel but it offers really consistently lethal penetration through a variety of barriers that a person may encounter. Stuff like denim and other fabrics are really tough on a lot of conventional hollow points same with automotive glass, automotive glass can chop some rounds in half obviously significantly changing the trajectory and the mass
The main objective of hollow point ammunition is to get the proper amount of penetration without overpenetration. This is explained in many of the FBI documentations that they use in their testing procedures. It's very common misconception that the primary function of hollow point is damage to your target. While that is also an equally important aspect, collateral damage will send you to prison for life.
And it's a misconception many shitbag prosecutors and lawyers will take full advantage of. Make sure your defense lawyer is at least somewhat gun savvy and KNOWS what they're taking about. Making the prosecution look like an unknowledgeable jackass in the eyes of the jury will only help your chances...Along with praying to everything holy that the judge isn't a shitheel activist, too.
"Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6!" I use Federal American Eagle, 165 grain .40 cal, FMJ for practice. For self-defense I use Federal HST .40 cal., 165 grain hollow points.
A general rule of thumb is either you can talk to somebody at your local sheriff's office state patrol office or even local police precinct and ask them what ammo their officers use. Once you have the exact brand and type you can then buy the same thing and if you ever have to use your firearm with those hollow points for a defensive shoot you can then say "well the ammo I use is the exact same that such and such police use". By doing so you are one covering your ass on your ammo choice and the prosecutor will have a hard time trying to use that against you because now if he goes for it now anyone shot by officers can now use their ammo Choice against them being that the prosecutor would then be setting a precedent. More than likely the prosecutor will probably just not use that in general because it's the exact same ammo some Police Department the local, County or state is using.
From an ex-military perspective … target round causes more penetration with a likelihood that you risk more collateral damage if you don’t know your background. From a law enforcement perspective… you will be imprisoned in GA as target round are not meant for duty carry. Hollow points expand upon impact slowing the velocity & slowing the penetration. ie preventing rounds from going thru the walls of apt to apt.
I loved the alligator part . It reminded me of Exit 404 on I 75 in Florida. The welcome center there has a stuffed 14 ft alligator ,a tank full of baby gators and the parking lot is full of tables loaded with bags of oranges . That was a good one
Reminder that the prosecutor in the Rittenhouse trial tried to make the case that Kyle using FMJ ammo was reckless endangerment of bystanders due to its “enhanced penetration”. Worry about the trial if you get that far, until then carry whatever floats your boat.
I had USCCA when I first started carrying but switched on the spot after attending a U.S. Law seminar about 5 years ago. Also I don't see how some prosecutors can live with themselves sending people just protecting themselves to jail. I'd like to see how it would turn out if the shoe was on the other foot and they had to hire the very defense attorney they go up AGAINST in the courtroom.
@@AntiFakeJewsRev2-9-0Zach9-6 James could better explain than myself, but from what I understand there are many times when USCCA will concoct a reason not to defend people and sometimes even ask for their money back
@@JamesReeves$50 well spent. They nailed the ridiculous liberal media depictions of "gun crime" in the United States. I had to watch the video twice to capture the seriousness of the topic.
So, if this can send you to JAIL for using it in a self defense situation than why don't they arrest the makers of it for promoting it as a defensive ammunition? I call bs.
Just found your channel. My complements on your story telling. You had me for the entire 11 minutes. Also, thank you for the Federal HST recommendation. I'll look into that.
It's the best in the hollowpoint category. Only losing to specific corbon dpx and one other. However there's a new age of bullet technology called fluted ammo. The best models being underwood and g2 or g9 fluted ammo. It has the same penetration as hollowppints but created permanent wound channels just about twice the diameter of a hollow point. However these only work in high velocity loads. So hollows are still the king with .45 and .40 and other slow calibers. While fluted ammo is the king with 10mm, 357 sig, 9mm etc.
If you happen to have to defend yourself and while using FMJ bullets, there's a high likelihood that there will be over penetration and could possibly hurt someone else. I always and only carry hollow points.
My main fear in a self defense situation is over penetration, hallow points I feel would be less likely to over penetrate ideally stopping in the first target and not injuring anyone near by
I really really enjoyed your delivery of “a crack cocaine addict or as we call them in Florida citizens” well done 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 it made me laugh out loud literally as well.
So if i use hollow points i can go to jail. But if i use FMJ and it goes through my target and hits something or someone I didnt intend to, i go to jail. Yeah our justice system is fucked.
It's a good idea to find out what your local police precinct uses and use that. Makes it much more difficult for a prosecutor to demonize the ammo that the police carry.
I get asked all of the time "will it hurt me in court if I use hollow points to defend myself?" Surprisingly, the answer is: "it depends." It depends on whether you were actually defending yourself and not committing attempted murder like the people in the cited examples.
Totally off topic here, but I noticed that you have a 42nd Infantry “Rainbow” Division patch on the wall behind you. My grandfather was in that unit during WWII, and it’s cool to see this rarely talked about unit being represented.
From a legal standpoint, it is very easy to defend a client's actions when carrying hollowpoints. It is especially easier when they are carrying a brand that a local or fedral law enforcement agency carries. Example, your honor my client chose to carry said round due to his studies showing professional law enforcement agencies trust them to reliably act when needed to be used.
I wonder how this would go down with the same judges? "Your Honor, I obviously did NOT intend to kill him, because I unloaded the hollow points and put in full metal jacketed rounds." I'm guessing like a led balloon.
You should talk about how telling the police to do their job can get your CCW revoked. Check out Vince Ricci in LA, who the LAPD revoked his license because he yelled at them to do their job
3:10 - stupid, sexy crackhead...
Classic
@@JamesReevesjust argue it's to protect bystanders with less overpenetration. That's why I run frangible.
Mel Gibson
I grew up around guns and I have never once heard somebody call Hollow Point 9mm cop killer rounds. WTF
hawt
Anything and everything you do to defend yourself will be used against you by a predatory prosecutor.
Absolutely. Binger went after Rittenhouse for using using FMJs. There is no right answer, just do your best to avoid something that is obviously the wrong answer, like RIP lol
I grew up in Maryland (blue state) and my house gotten broken into when I was out of the country. They broke into the safe and stole some "evil assault" weapons and at court when they caught the guy the prosecutor acted like anyone who had those weapons should be put in jail. I left that state shortly thereafter.
@@philondezthis is really sad... if someone is about to kill you, why wouldn't you want to use the most effective tool, or in this case ammo? FMJ might just zip through someone without much effect. RIP rounds would have a much better effect. There should be no repercussion for choosing the right tool. In the end, the attacker chose the battle, not the defender.
Especially in the NYC tri-state area.
That's why I only use the will of my own god who sits on his mountain of power and laughs at your Four Winds.
Two cases. One man used hollow-point ammo to defend himself against a home invasion. Another man used jacketed rounds to defend himself against a home invasion. Both invaders were killed. Both were prosecuted for using "excessive force". In one case, because the hollow-point was excessively deadly. In the other case, because the jacketed round was "armor piercing". Same prosecutor in both cases. Its not about the ammo, its about the political views of the prosecutor in the case.
Absolutely true!
😊
As a former cop the term “excessively deadly” is such a bulls&@# term.
But it’s great for a lawyer trying to persuade a bunch of randoms that you are mean and scary.
There’s just lethal force… you can’t get any deader than dead.
@The_SmorgMan exactly. If I heard some bullshit like excessively deadly and my lawyer didn't rip into that shit, I'd probobly fight my lawyer for being a dipshit, and go to jail at that point for that and then lose my case at the same time... hahaha
@@kidmoseynot really, intent means next to nothing.
FMJ’s are not armor piercing?
I ended up going to trial over a self defense shooting. The gun I used was a Glock 27. I had 40 cal hollow point rounds. The prosecutor did bring up the hollow point issue claiming I was carrying the most deadly type of ammunition. This happened in Anchorage AK and the police that responded all testified. My lawyer asks each of them what gon they carried. All of them carried either a Glock 22 or 23. My lawyer then asked what type of ammunition they carried and of course they all carry hollow point ammunition. Both their guns and ammunition were issued by the police department. That pretty much destroyed the hollow point argument. I was found not guilty.
Glad to hear it!
Does everyone in Alaska have to go to trial in a self defense shooting? Some states are mandatory
At the time of the defensive shooting did you have a USCCA membership that has a "lawyer on retainer"? Or did you just Google an attorney after they arrested you?
Good Question ^
Personally i believe in self defense3 scenario's, it shouldn't matter what ammo you use. The only thing that should be questioned is whether your actions were within the law. The ammo is legal to sell and buy so should not be an issue in a trial.
The irony of them calling hollow points "Cop-Killer" bullets when every cop in America carries hollow points. My 5 years as LEO we carried Speer Gold Dot 124g everyday to stop crackheads and euthanize opossums on the road. Yes, I worked in Florida.
I think you meant "stop opposums and euthanize crackheads"?
Did you ever have to handle crack head Opossums ?
@@johngriffiths118 most opossums were good lads. Only euthanized them because they’d get hit by cars. But meth’d out rabid raccoons were a thing as well as pythons who loved the warmth of clothes dryers.
The poor possums!
Give them free safety jackets so they don’t need to be euthanized!
And it's a pretty solid defense in court if the prosecutor gets uppity and tries to go on about your deadly cruelty bullets, to point out it's the exact same ammo used by .
In Peru (South America), it is literally illegal to carry with anything other than hollow point. The reasoning is that other rounds may pass through the targeted person and hit someone else. If you are caught carrying with anything other than hollow point you lose your gun license.
I would like to visit peru. I have kind of been to peru before. In the deep jungle, on the amazon. But what do you think the chances are for a non resident to get the authority to carry in peru as a non-citizen.
@metalandwood9510 I was a resident in the process of doing so, but moved away before I had a chance to finish the paperwork. I can tell you that even for a resident, it was not a quick and easy process. Like any South American country, though, there are always ways to make things happen if you get to know the right people.
Just to own a gun you need to join a gun club, have them sign off on your mental state, demonstrate to a government administrator your gun competence (safety and accuracy) and be able to identify all parts of a gun... in Spanish. From what I remember, to carry you first needed to pass a security check that includes (for US citizens) a letter from the FBI. I actually can't remember the rest but I was still gathering the documents when we decided to move away (due to covid and a deteriorating political situation).
@@metalandwood4uif you have money (doesn’t take much in South America) and the right friends, anything is possible. Just be aware that South America is an extremely dangerous place. That taxi cab you are taking might turn down a street and someone is waiting to rob you. The bus drivers make one phone call and all of the sudden the bus is getting robbed. Lots of dirty games people play but on the other hand very good people in these countries. Best to stick to the areas people tell you are safe and nothing ever good happens after dark. I did some very stupid things in Bolivia and Chile. I am surprised I was not killed.
In the united states. Gun owners joke about this. We usually say something like. You don't want to accidentally shoot the neighbors dog.
Lol, in Italy using a hollow point for self-defence is illegal
In the Rittenhouse trial the prosecutor tried to characterize his FMJ bullets as especially dangerous due to their higher chance of overpenetration and potentially hitting a bystander. It doesn't matter what you use, they'll spin it against you.
I was wondering if someone was going to bring that up. Odd thing is, it's illegal for non-LEOs to own hollow points in certain states.
and yet could not find one single bullet that over penetrated anything.
I don't see how he isn't in jail for suborning perjury. His opening witness and he showed him an upper and asked the witness to identify Rhittenhouse's gun when no gun was even shown to the witness. Then did it again showing a parallax sight and asking him to identify the scope, when there was no scope shown.
Any lawyer worth a damn should know this. And if he doesn’t, you better tell him to do some homework if you have the guts to stick with him.😂
@@mrmoofle So call a friend to mail you some so you don't own them. Your giving them away free one at a time as well.
@@mrmoofle This isnt true. Hollow points are legal in every single state. New Jersey has a restriction on them. But, you can still buy and own them in New Jersey.
"Hollow points are made for killing"
And guns are made for tickling
Fun fact, when I waistband carry my 45, it tickles me when I go to bend around and the grip tickles across my abdomen..
Imagine a prosecutor pulling out ads for the "Interceptor" ammo, that opens up into a wide "x" shape, or "Inceptor" ammo, that has spinning grooves in it to send out a shock wave through wet flesh to cause maximum initial damage.
-- In any case, on the question of intent, both of the first two guys should have said, "I didn't load my carry gun with the intent of harming anyone innocent. I loaded it to protect myself from violent criminals, who may be jacked up on God-knows-what drug."
@@connercurzio3645 has a hollow point ever tickled your weenie? 😂😂😂 dude I'm fuckin terrified of that happening, but appendix is so much more comfy in every day life
Which bullets are not made for killing mr persecutor? I would like to find those kind but they didn't sell any at the gun shop😂😂
If you don't use a hollow point they will just say you are using "military grade" ball ammo
Exactly.
Yep, fed from a "high-capacity military grade assault weapon clip".
Fired from your fully semi-automatic assault weapon.
Damned if you do,it seems.
If you don't use 9mm FMJ, the juries will accuse you of being an assassin when you use .22 rounds.
I actually AM using military grade ball ammo. M1152. Its my carry.
My father, retired prosecutor and criminal defense attorney, WWII and Korean Marine Vet, went to get a concealed permit for his handgun, due to some gang trouble in the neighborhood. The Police officer that issued the permit told him, "please use hollow points to reduce the chance of hitting unintended targets or pass-through problems". Yea, he used hollow points.
Or the super high grain ammo police often use because of that. It isn't a hollow point but it mainly just oddly flips at the target, loses pretty much all power up on impact but will do a lotta damage to the target when a 180-200gr. .40 cal smashes into it at some weird sideways angle.
In a self Defense situation anything Available or in the Clip at the Time..will be that choice at the Time... if it's Critical Defense Hollowpoint Ammo it's there for a Reason... in My Defense... which if your life is On the Line.. it's Pretty Critical... Right???
It sucks that you can be judged based on either using "too lethal" ammo, or crappy ammo which means you have to shoot the bad guy a couple dozen times and they will say you shot them too many times.
This actually made me laugh out loud
It's a catch 22 Kafka Trap.
It's the Dialectic in action.
Unless you live in Brazil or are part of a street gang or are a cop, the likelihood of you having to use multiple rounds in a self defense situation is incredibly low, I dare say 1 in 100,000. Most, MOST self defense situations end with the first shot regardless of whether you hit the target or not. People generally don't like to hang around when getting shot at.
I guess you haven't heard about Goldilocks Wolf-Stops. For when your ammo needs to be just right.
I use the same ammunition I used when I was a cop. I can assure you that law enforcement, both local and federal use hollow points.
There were some fun statistics about that: hollow points end a fight quicker with less shots, yet the survival rate of these shooting went up with HP. This alone would be reason enough to call HP "more humane" with FMJ you need a lot more bullets and they stop a target when he is already almost dead...
@@penedrador I haven't seen those statistics but it sounds legit. More holes to stop a threat = more holes to bleed out of.
Law ~ from the Latin for 'ultimate' or highest truth. ie The Laws of physics are 100% repeatable.
'TRUTH enforcement' is an oxymoron, as truth is self evident and never has to be ENFORCED. I'll call the 'truth', 'truth'er, it's the 'truth', ya the way you professional sophist use it, doesn't meet the common sense test. aka genetic memory test (ever see a beaver in engineering school??)
Attorneys practice in a court of RECORD, were they establish 'facts' of record. ie they make no attempt at finding the truth, it's opinion.
I've always used and told others that what YOUR State Troopers use, buy the same. 1. They are provided for by the State's taxes, which YOU pay. Whether directly in indirectly, YOUR taxes pay for their ammo. If it's good enough for the State to use, it's good enough for the citizen.
It's actually a SAFETY ISSUE for me 🤷 there is less chance of over penetration and accidentally shooting an unintentional target.
I heard a lecture on the matter a while ago. They said the best thing you could do is research the ammo used by the local police department and use that as your carry ammo as long as it is legal for civilian use. A prosecutor is going to have a hard time saying your ammo is excessively deadly if the local jurisdiction uses it. He’d be attacking his local mayor and police chief’s policy.
That’s a great recommendation.
I could see that backfiring in some areas, where the prosecutors and jury pool hate cops as much as they hate armed citizens.
"Oh, you're using the local police's ammo? That box of Federal HST even says 'Law Enforcement' on it. Are you law enforcement? Do you have the hundreds or [sic] thousands of seconds of firearms training that the local police have to know how to use that ammo? You must think you're some kind of vigilante..." -A prosecutor, somewhere, maybe, eventually
I think one of the points of the video was supposed to be that if your choice of ammo comes up in the courtroom, then you either did something wrong and it's a window dressing for the prosecution, or the prosecution is just gun-owner-thirsty and you're going to have an expensive defense regardless of what your ammo choice was.
Face it, ANY gear or training decision you made prior to the shooting is "evidence" that you were out to get somebody if the prosecutor is out to get you, and you will need lawyers and money to go with your guns.
@@chaz720 One state "recognizes" my states carry permit. We don't have reciprocity. So which states law do I follow when they conflict? I don't have that states permit, so do I follow MY states law since that is what the permit is for? It is a corrupt DA's dream clause.
@@robertsmith2956 While there is some weirdness with purchasing/transfer of a firearm when you're visiting another state, by and large the laws that matter for carrying and/or shooting are the laws of the state where the carrying and/or shooting happen.
The advice I got from the guy who trains my police department is for citizens and even cops to use whatever ammo their local law enforcement use. That way your defense is you use exactly what the cops who protect your community use
Great advice. Cross the police officer on the stand against you and ask him what he carries.
Exactly
I like this idea. Any ideas how to find this out if you move to an area?
@@JamesReeves against what this is not a simulation it's a hypothetical. I would like to think in the event of some kind of terrorism there is some crossover like NATO and such
Then you are chalked up to be a vigilante who wants to be a cop. You cannot win in regards to ammo choice, it will be spun any which way.
“The box said ‘Critical Defense’ your honor.”
Yep, that's what I carry, for exactly that reason, plus the fact that they basically won't overpenetrate
@@philondezI asked to borrow my mom's pistol yesterday and I took out all the fmjs and put critical defense hps in there. Just for peace of mind
@CarlosPEnis if the grain weight and velocity is vastly different from the rounds she's used to it might be good to take her to range. New ammo could have different point of impact and recoil impulse.
Respect for making sure ur family members are safe, keep it going brother
The box said Maim and Destroy, Your Honor.
Your honor, with all due respect, how could I not buy the Zamboni Killer ammo!
Prosecutors and judges who allow this sh*t are what we call a liability.
then your best option is to just stop worrying about the firearms and dont purchase one.
Lol I'm not the one worrying about firearms . Seems the other way around
I bought multiple firearms I say least 8 ,what your saying is irrelevant man
As a retired cop, who as part of my job wrote department policies, was a use of foce and firearms instructor. Our department used hollow-points because they are less likely to over penetrate and or ricochet.
I agree. JHPs are literally what I’ve been told to Defence carry since my first pistol purchase. Exactly for the reason of over penetration when using ball.
I love the idea of having my money stolen from me so it can given to someone that willingly contributed to a broken system and violated their fellow Americans rights. Tell us, would you willingly arrest a man that was charged with using hollow points in a self-defense situation if told to do so? We've already seen how you all reacted during the COVID lockdowns. So, my guess is you would most definitely do it, even if you said no. Got to get that retirement money, right? Can't give that up. "Yes sir, I'll violate the rights of whoever you ask."
@@Ambusher1st people are not getting arrested for using hollow point ammo. I frequently refused orders that I felt were unethical. Probably played a huge role why I was never an administrator. Yes I am happy with my retirement, it's not as great as you think, but I worked decades for it.
That’s what I was told 😅
agreed
Speaking as a former LEO, the ONLY rounds we referred to as "cop killer bullets" were of the armor piercing variety which are anything but "hollow point"! How can a defense attorney worth his pay allow a prosecuting attorney mischaracterize a bullet virtually identical to what police carry as nefarious?
Attorneys and cops are very uninformed in guns. I've met a few cops who didn't know what an ffl dealer is
Because we let idiots that don't actually know anything about the subject make laws for the rest of us.
No such thing as good cops, you guys origin is from slave catcher so you’re already inherently bad people
I always heard that 'cop killer' rounds were the Teflon coated rounds, especially the Black Talon rounds. Those then became illegal as doctors were literally slicing open their fingers when trying to remove the bullets. When I was a Sheriff's Explorer riding patrol, that was always our greatest fear. The 5.7x28mm hadn't come out yet and ine of the deputies I knew had gotten shot with multiple 7.62x39mm rounds. His soft vest caught 2 rounds barely, they still went inside him but not deep, and 2 went completely through his vest. That's when we started wearing the plates inside the vest. Supposedly Black Tallons would go through that too, but I don't know. You wanted to get hit with hollow points though. When they flare out and expand, the bullet gets caught in the Kevlar fibers. Not that anyone ever wants to get shot, but the choice if you had to pick one would be that.
@@clifbradley Black Talon ammo was not armor-piercing. And I challenge anyone to document a single case of an officer being killed by having his/her armor pierced by an AP handgun bullet.
If ever asked WHY you use hollow points, answer is "It prevents over penetration of the intended target."
I think the funniest thing about hollow points being referred to in that way, is the decreased effectiveness against armor, which police often wear...
They call hollow point and ap cop killer bullets. So any bullet you use will be called cop killer bullets 😂 it's so dumb and ridiculous if it wasn't for real.
Just shows you how evil our government is.
Yes but you can also make up for it by having high velocity 1700 fps hollow points.
But then again an fmj won't do anything better than a hollow poin even when trying to pierce armor. The fmj only has an advantage in shooting through drywall I'm guessing
@@jason200912 I refer you to Paul Harrells review on the g9 defense "external hollow point". Solid copper bullet with the strange dual qualities of superior soft armor penetration AND a wider wound channel and with huge energy dump on soft targets. They're expensive, but well worth it in my opinion. Surviving is my first priority, what comes after comes after.
1700 fps pistol rounds are incapable of defeating level 3 body armor. Any intermediate rifle cartridge would though.
Those 2,000+ fps 60 grain cci defender loads are sitting with the rip ammo, in potentially being too efficient to be effective. They both dump their energy immediately without penetrating far enough.
All pistol ammunition is too heavy and slow for safe home defense. Even the hollow points can pass through multiple walls if no studs are in the way. .223 rem from a 10.5" or longer barrel, or frangible bullets are the safest bet for avoiding over penetration.
Garand thumb has a decent video on home wall penetration
@@modakkagitplugga * lvl3a armor ot will pierce
Nobody has tested it against lvl 3 armor which is stupid
"Nothing annoys me like people who get annoyed that you're not annoyed"
Thats just damn good philosophy
Here in TEXAS in a CC class we were told NOT to use FULL METAL JACKETS for the main reason it can go through the person and walls and strike another person. 🤷🏻♂️ So YES to hollow points.
Very simple answer.
The prison system cannot extract money from the government if they do not have criminals behind bars.
And if they don't have a criminal, they'll make one (or several where possible).
They still make the same on filling beds in shelters too. They get them coming and going.
We don't have a justice system. We have a legal system.
During the Rittenhouse trial the prosecution tried to say Kyle just wanted to hurt people because he had fmj ammo so either way they'll say whatever they think will make the jury against the defendants.
Those prosecutors were seriously stupid. I'm no lawyer, but they fucked up a lot of simple things, like producing the mayor's curfew order to get a conviction on breaking curfew. Honestly, I'd love to see @JamesReeves do a reaction video to the Rittenhouse video and that entire trial.
@@SnapD24 James' reaction video would be 20 minutes of sarcasm and outright laughing
We saw it in the Rittenhouse trial. If you use M193 the prosecutor will say, “it’s military ammo meant to penetrate, fragment and cause maximum carnage”. If you carry hollow points they’ll say, “they literally explode inside people why would anyone need this?”.
Yeah but it made him look like an idiot for even trying that he was laughed at like a fool I almost think he threw that case on purpose but he tried to put on a show for political points. Any reasonable person would just say that's what I found on the shelf at the store I didn't systematically pick certain ammo I just bought what they had
"Your honor, in my client's defense, he simply doesn't vibe with the law."
Lmao
If I remember correctly, In Kyle Rittenhouse trial the prosecution tried to use the fact he was using FMJ against him. Because they are ‘super deadly and can penetrate multiple targets at once’ or something. It didn’t stick, but goes to show no matter what you use they will try and hold it against you.
That’s the trade off. Jacketed ammo has penetration issues that can get you in trouble. Hollow Points do more damage but don’t penetrate, so same issue.
I just rewatched a short documentary of that incident. So odd watching people chase a man who clearly has an ar-15. Then,. " He just shot somebody, get him" ugh, you sure about that?
@@jdizzle6324 - Leftists be crazy. Their reason for going after him? He tried to move a dumpster they set ablaze away from the building they were trying to burn down.
Yep
Rifles typically don't use hollow points....
I used to read Massad Ayoob and other firearm magazines and I was always led to believe that hollow point ammunition was much less likely to over penetrate the body than FMJ making them safer for innocent people who happen to be in the vicinity of a lawful shooting, this is in addition to the fact that hollow points are more likely to stop a fight before a perp can continue to cause harm
That is correct. Hollow points have more stopping power on the intended target, and less likelihood of collateral pass through damage.
The WHOLE reason I used hp
Massad Ayoob, with Wilson combat has some excellent videos on this very subject.
It fucks me up that these "prosecutors" keep calling hollow points "cop killers" when they're literally the exact opposite of what those rounds were... pointed jacketed rounds coated in teflon designed to penetrate a kevlar vest is NOT a hollow point round.
I guess never expect someone who supposedly knows the law and is trying to imprison you for likely the rest of your life to know all the facts 🙄Love these vids btw
Exactly what I was thinking. Idk y they are called "cop killers" when they are not meant for
" armor piercing "
it would make more sense to me if they referred to something like a 5.7x28 handgun with black dragon fang rounds as "cop killers"
Teflon coatings on bullets do NOT help them pass through Kevlar.
I’ve still got a handful of those black talon “cop killers” from before the Clinton era, I have no idea how they do against Kevlar but just by looking at them I’m guessing it’s a gimmick
@@averagenugget So they’re just hollow points?
@@eancola6111 Basically. Better yet, I'm pretty sure they were still being produced post-Clinton, just with a less "tacticool" rebranding.
I really appreciate James doing this series, it's fascinating hearing these case studies played out.
Thanks man, this will probably be the best thing I read today. A little behind-the-scenes, this is something I’ve been wanting to do for years because it combines two things that I’m passionate about on a technical level, I honestly thought this series was going to fall flat on its face.
@@JamesReeves Please keep them coming. I think a more educated carrier is a safer one and I believe you're doing a lot of good with this series. That and they provide a solid and sober yin to the yang that is the beer-drinking, hot pants-wearing, manifesto-recieving James we all love.
@JamesReeves I really love the legal aspect of 2A, your AR15 potentially sending someone to jail video was one of the most informative ive seen, I never would have considered it would have been that bad. Keep doing the Lords work, Godspeed.
Just want to second this comment! This series is phenomenal and I immediately send to all my buddies that carry as well.
@@JamesReeves+1 here, I’m a nerd who enjoys stuff like this too, so it’s nice to get a breakdown of some case law from someone who has that expertise.
I was told by my CWP instructor who testifies for defendants to use what the local cops use. In my case that’s Hornady Critical Defense hollow points. It’s much more difficult to paint a defendant as cruel or vicious when you use what cops do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the reason for using hollow points, besides being more effective, is because they're designed to not go through your target so if you're defending yourself you're not inadvertently hitting other people on the other side of your intended target
You think your average Leftist DA gives a crap about that?
You are correct. The law is just uneducated as always.
Also, most cops wear body armor and hollow point are least likely to penetrate, thus 'cop killer' is BS.
This is why the law in the US is unequal, if you can afford good representation they will bring all that to the jury and will have good expert testimony. Not just to bring the facts to the jury but charismatic experts with a proven track record of being able to convince the jury, that alone can make the difference in a trial.
If someone is stuck with a public defender they have to hope its a genuine person that wants to help defendants, even then they dont have the networks or funding to get the best experts. God help the defendant if the public defender is a lawyer with a failed career, an overworked one or one in bed with the prosecutors. Then its half arsed or ineffective defence, too hassled to really focus on one case or they spend half of their working time in the prosecutors office working out who can be convinced to plead out and for what with them.
It's only meant to dump all the energy. Any other benefits are coincidental.
Every lawyer's video I've seen on what to carry or not to carry always seems to eventually boil down to: "I can't say for sure, the prosecution will use anything against you."
It always seems like the circumstances of the shoot are always going to matter significantly more than the perfomance enhancing accessories, caliber or bullet construction choice.
What matters most is the political leanings of the area you were in .
@@joeg5414 Definitively this ^
@@joeg5414 not even that. Unless the criminal injured themselves in your home without your involvements it's consistent all around. Even Rittenhouse, having defended himself in Wisconsin, had to face a civil suit, but if he had done it in an antigun state of IL, he would not face the charges because he won the criminal case. It's not so black and white.
Just a point of history;
The term "cop killer bullets" was first used to get armour piercing ammo made illegal.
Back when officers were starting to wear body armour, various media outlets and anti 2A groups made this charge as a way to vilify AP ammunition.
What it actually did was inform criminals that cops were wearing armour, something that wasn't widely known at the time, resulting in, according to an NRA article at the time, more attempts by criminals to shoot officers in the head.
The fact they are now calling hollow points, bullets expressly designed to mitigate excessive penetration "cop killer" bullets is the pinochle of evidence that they are completely unethical, and will say whatever they think will allow them to win, regardless of how incorrect it is.
I thought the most important reason to use hollow point ammo in a self defense situation was because ball ammo can penatrate through one person and into another. The opening tip of a hollow point round is supposed to help prevent this from happening. I also understand a person should always no, and understand what is behind the target, but in a amped up situation like that , things happen quickly.
I forget exactly which one, but in one of the three cases, the defense tried to use that angle, and apparently it may have been unpersuasive. I think it was the case where the detective testified.
But then again, who is to say, because the facts were pretty bad in both cases. The take away is that prosecutors have definitely used hollowpoint arguments successfully in a number of reported cases.
The argument will usually level off to just how dumb the jury is ;
@@bailey9r Then the case should either be thrown out or redone, since the defendant didn't have a jury of PEERS... i.e. citizenry with working knowledge of firearms. You can't expect an ignorant civilian to be able to put forth a accurate decision if they're not fully informed and knowledgeable.
Has any pistol bullet that hit its target ever actually gone through and killed a second person? This sounds like fudd lore to me.
@@FluffPuffkotj Both LAPD and NYPD specifically have incidents on record where an officer's FMJ bullet overpenetrated a perp and hit an innocent bystander but I don't believe the bystander was killed, they were obviously injured. On top of the scores of innocent people struck and killed when the cops missed most of those initial shots anyways.
The thing about hollow-point ammunition is that the expansion of the bullet transfers more energy into the target, and this causes the bullet to penetrate less than a solid "ball" round. So, JHP is the responsible choice since it is literally designed to stop within your target and not overpenetrate to hit someone else.
Bingo if anything it should help your case.
Exactly! I think it was NY cops who decided they were having too many "friendlies" killed by over penetration and hitting innocent people. That is when they switched to Hollow Points.
Reference USCCA Concealed Carry and Home Defense Fundamentals book.
this is the sad part that jurys judges and DC dont know the FACTS and try to rule on this stuff
also the grain you run, plus the type of firearm you are shooting , and feet per sec.
There is a reason the FBI has penetration criteria for ammunition and over penetration is a fail. Optimal self defense ammunition expands to the designed diameter and expends all of its energy in the object then stays in the object. The only thing I'd want full penetration and more is large, dangerous game like Brown Bear and Cape Buffalo.
I always choose hollow points for both safety and effectiveness. The safety aspect being reduced chances of over penetration. Effectiveness being more energy delivered to the target. At first glance that might sound cruel, but think about it. If one or two well placed rounds stop the threat, as opposed to a greater number of FMJs is favorable in three ways: 1) Threat stopped faster with less opportunity for your attacker to advance on your position and take you out; 2) In the case of multiple attackers you can potentially stop more threats with fewer rounds before needing a reload; 3) The more rounds you fire, the tougher your self defense case will be in court, not to mention additional chances of harm beyond the target.
While multiple threats all at once aren't your typical self defense situation, anyone who has patrolled, worked or lived in an area with a lot of gang activity should train for that possibility!
Currently in the police academy. My instructors have said that people should use the same ammo that their local PD uses. Speer Gold Dots are a good choice in my area because most of the agencies around here use it. Enjoying the series!
Currently in the police academy? It’s not too late to find decent employment and abandon your road pirate fantasies.
Is there a way to see what ammo your local police department uses?
@@TheFossil-uv8rmLol
@@HGRAP1not beyond asking someone in the know. But for many many years, NYPD carried (maybe still does) G19s with Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. Either that, or the 124/147gr Federal HST are both tried and true.
Since everyone is responsible for evey bullet from the time it leaves the barrel to the time it stops. Gold dot control penetration hollow points are a great choice.
If you use hollow points they will try to use that against you. If you dont use hollow points they will try to use that against you. Its the same with med kits. If you have one and are involved in a shooting and dont use it on the person you shot they will use that against you. If you do use it they will.use thst as an example of how you didnt feel your life was in danger. This guys job isnt to find the truth. His job is to get a conviction. There is no magical rite way to do things that doesnt leave him with anything to use.
And if you do try to save someone's life, they can and almost certainly will still sue you for medical malpractice (or whatever legal term they would apply) because you invariably didn't do it right because you're not a doctor. And doctors still get sued.
Better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
@Borderline5440
Don't take your legal advice from Seinfeld
Anybody can sue you for anything but most jurisdictions have Good Samaritan laws to easily defend against the claim you made. The exact wording per place varies but it is still a strong defense in general against your claim.
@@czechmix221 Three world wars! Amen, borther!
@@slimjim2584 Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still get stuck with defense lawyer's fees even if you're justified in your actions.
People can and have gotten sued for rendering aid.
There is a place in our society for a defense attorney who defends a man he knows is guilty. But there is a special place in Hell for a district attorney who prosecutes a man he knows is innocent.
Hollow points are designed to not over penetrate. Thus, you are actually being safer to anyone else who may be in the vicinity if you need to discharge your weapon for self-defense.
As my college law professor used to say to every question
"It depends"
Save your life first, you can't predict the legal system sadly.
Interesting
Not only are they effective for self-defense, but they are also designed to NOT go through someone and hit an unintentionally person behind your target.
Effective.
@@_Delta_P_ happy? Lol
I remember watching the Rittenhouse trial and they were dragging him for using FMJ. Literally the cheapest type of range ammo. Point is they don’t like guns so they don’t like ammo. There is no correct ammo choice to them. Use whatever the police use for self defense.
Something something WEAPONS OF WAR!!!!! (Of course FMJ is standard military issue because it's LESS lethal and is thus required by the Hague Convention.)
They hate guns , ammo , private property , and self defense.
They threw the book at rittenhouse because he was killing protesters, and there was, immense political pressure to prosecute him.
This is because Rittenhouse worship quickly devolved into "he's so based because he killed liberal protesters!" and most of it had nothing to do with self defense, you can tell the people supporting him would have supported him if he was shooting down from rooftops at unarmed people.
So if you're a liberal, and you see an army of people worshipping the idea of murdering you, and you see them liking the idea of murdering protesters, you want to prosecute the guy who started that trend, try to discourage it, because you know if he walks free it will embolden the nutjobs, so they don't go out and kill people.
And despite what the media tells you, no, the 2020 protesters were not all rabid animals who deserved to die.
Personally I would not want an army of armed thugs to cooperate with police to murder and crack down on protesters protesting police corruption and brutality.
But knowing this channel im sure there are a lot of racist pro police corruption folks, so go ahead, downvote me and call me some random slurs.
Also should be noted if you live in New Jersey, it is specifically illegal to shoot a person with hollow points outside of your home. Certain alternatives are allowed though (and would probably help in other states if a prosecutor is trying to use your ammo choice as “intent to kill), like Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense.
I believe the term "cop killer bullet" in association with hollow points originated from the Mel Gibson film Lethal Weapon. In the movie, the bullets are depicted as being capable of defeating armor.
Winchester Black Tip, silver was 1980’s
...and bulldozers. 😂
I love those movies, but... damn. 😔
Actually the cop killer rounds in Lethal Weapon 2 were a pointed FMJ that went through kevlar vests......that said, at one point Riggs calls an SMG a MAC 10 with "twin carbines"......huh? WTF are twin carbines? A carbine is a short barelled rifle. But I guess the writers thought the line sounded cool so they shoved it in there. Movies are rarely firearms accurate.
@@bobbressi5414 It was Lethal Weapon 3 (2 was the South Africans) and I don't remember that the movie actually defined how the bullets were constructed. They only show one for about 2 seconds on the screen and it has a red-ish, pointed, tip. Later on, the same SMG (presumably in 9mm, since we see Riggs fire a round from it out of his Beretta earlier) shoots straight through a loader bucket and _instantly_ kills the main bad guy who took maybe 1 or 2 hits _after_ going through plate steel... 😂
Anyhow... In reality, right about that time Chinese ammunition, some having steel cores, was banned from importation for unrelated reasons. Simultaneously various entities were conflating "Black Talons" (ie, any hollow point) to steel core (and going after Black Talons, by name, because of a single shooting... because they had a scary name), _and_ we had various Teflon coated ammunition out there that were falsely claimed to be "armor piercing". "They" were calling all of that ammo "cop killers", because the people doing it had no idea what they were talking about. They still don't know what they're talking about today either...
So, during this period of time anything that wasn't military ball was a "cop killer" in the uneducated public zeitgeist. This was all at the height of the '94 ban era (LW3 being released in '92) so any lie or exaggeration was a good enough one to run with to help advance that agenda. This was the same era that got the _Sporting Purposes Automatic Shotgun_ (ie., SPAS-12, another Hollywood favorite) banned for not being suitable for sporting purposes and the _Lady's Home Companion_ being invented (then banned) because the name "Street Sweeper" was just too scary. It didn't have to make sense, it just had to sound like it did. Again, nothing has changed.
I love the LW movies, but their political agendas (I believe that were largely pushed by Danny Glover himself) were far and away their downfall. The good news is that they were rammed in so poorly that it's very easy to simply ignore them and just focus on the antics and action. I *still* don't fully understand the plot of LW2. 😆
Yup, the same way Die Hard 2 perpetuated the myth the Glocks are made of porcelain and can get through airport security without being detected. The general public is dumb. They believe whatever the media or movies tell them. According to Hollywood suppressors completely remove any auditory signature.
“Don’t use that HP ammo. It’s only allowed for our super militarized police force. Not even the Army can use it.” -dummies
Said the criminal. 🍺🤣👍
@@skipmoto3438 ☺️ Wow
To be fair, HP rounds are useless against vests and plates. If you hate our super militarized police, then you absolutely want them using the least effective ammo possible.
why would they sell it in gun stores and online market
The number one reason hollow points are used for defense is because the round loses energy in the target preventing over penetration thus being a safer round to use in public vs fmj which is likely to over penetrate and hit whoever is beyond the intended target. The larger wound cavity is secondary to the fact that it’s a safer round to prevent innocent bystanders from being struck.
As a former Forensic Firearms Examiner who has testified in over 300 trials, the turn “CopKiller” was only referred to as armor piercing ammunition. If called to the stand, I would have testified the term was being used improperly. I would also have said the hollow point ammunition is designed to stop a threat or animal weather it be self defense or hunting game. I have never had to testify about the types of projectiles used. As a forensic expert, we had to use proper terms, not improperly used street terms.
This is anecdotal, but I was recently a juror in a murder case. While it was mentioned that the defendant had hollow point ammo in their firearm, that detail did not get much attention. During deliberation, we had a few firearm owners weigh in on the circumstances and we did not have much if anything to say about the kind of ammo used. We focused on other evidence, mainly phone records, about what happened moments before the shooting to determine if it was premeditated or not.
That's because the ammo placed in a gun, sometimes years before it is used, has nothing to do with the motivation for a shooting.
That is why I will never dodge jury duty. It is my duty as a citizen to stop the state from railroading people. Picking the right reading material is a nightmare. First one struck because prosecutor saw my book, and didn't want anyone with a science background. I guess he planned on introducing fake science evidence.
Wouldn't have worked out well anyways, they were letting the state witnesses have the jury chairs, and forced the jurors to sit on the hard benches for the observers. That would have been bad for the DA if I had to sit on that uncomfortable bench for the trial.
Sister said in MD. The instructors said to plan on spending the night in jail if you ever defended yourself.
I’ve got a client that is a defense attorney and he has always said carry what your local cops carry and it is hard for the government to argue that you used some kind of deadly prohibited death-dealer ammo.
Absolutely right. Use what the popos in your area use, particular in your carry ammo.
Then the prosecutor says... You carry what the cops do. You think you are a cop. You feel like it was your duty to kill tha guy. You're a vigilante.
No doubt, anything is possible. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. @@SSteeleify
@@SSteeleifyWell, cops shooting people aren't always supposed to kill someone but rather stop someone. Am I wrong?
Insane. Here in Denmark the Police began using 9mm hollowpoints because of the stopping power, and because of the lower risk of over penetration, and thereby collateral damage.
That is insane. No one has guns there.
That's the main reason to want hollow points, 100%. Increased stopping power means that you don't have to land as many hits to defend yourself. Fewer hits means fewer shots fired, which means fewer missed shots and therefore fewer chances of collateral damage. Hollow Point rounds have less risk of over penetration, so you also have reduced odds of sending a round into an unlucky bystander, despite hitting the person you're defending yourself from. These are obvious arguments that any defense lawyer should easily be able to use.
Is it true that if an inmate breaks out of prison, it’s not illegal?
In Oregon, the concealed carry training from the Oregon state sheriffs' association specifically recommends hollow point for self defense because jacketed rounds are more likely to over penetrate and harm a bystander.
Can't fmj also send me to prison because the excuse "oh you could have overpenetrated and hit someone else with your bullet, you are very reckless and deserve prison"?
Yes
Prosecutor: "Heads - I win, tails - you lose"
I use the same round the local police do. Oddly enough a hollow-point made by Hornady called TAP. This was recommended by the local DA as "its use was consistent with law enforcement."
If you use the same ammunition used by the LEO's in your area, your ammo choice cannot possibly be used to your detriment should you face trial, whether criminal or civil.
The goal is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. One fact that is rarely brought up is that full metal jacket ammo will typically penetrate deeper and can cause a risk to people other than the suspect. 20 years in law enforcement and my off duty carry is either a Glock 33 in .357 Sig or a Glock 30SF in .45ACP, both loaded with Winchester Ranger T Series ammo.
Luckily for you as an off duty officer you have very little to worry about in a self defense situation while your next door neighbor might get prosecuted for using "evil killer hollow point ammo" or "evil armor piercing full metal jacket" ammo to stop an armed intruder. Nothing against you but that's just the reality of the situation. The DA is MUCH more likely to after a non-cop and they will do anything to get another win even if it's a an obvious case of legit self defense. Just like they have done in the past. They will twist your type of ammo either way just to get a conviction.
It's almost like the legal system is kind of broken, judges might not he as smart as they think, and jurors are easily conned by rhetoric.
2:26 the revolver with a magazine got me.
In the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, I believe the defense made the comment that it doesn't matter what ammo you use, the prosecutor is going to ask why you didn't use the other type? When using hollow point, they ask why did you use exploding bullets. If you use FMJ, they ask why are you using military rounds.
The AI generated photos of all these scenarios are just pure gold lmao keep doing those!
How do you know they're AI generated?
@@Philmoscowitz 2:27
@@Philmoscowitz Cause the guy has a revolver that accepts magazines
@@xxxod That magazine fed revolver is one of the funniest parts of the video. AI generated images can be totally wild.
@@Philmoscowitz Reeves has a disclaimer up at 1:58 stating as much. Plus, as xxxod points out, magazine fed revolvers are a level of ridiculous only an A.I. could generate.
A friend of mine is a retired LEO. He told me of an incident where an attacker was shot 5 times with 45acp ball and was still an active threat. Certainly an outlier, but still makes you think.
James , would love to hear your legal assessment of using a suppressor on a home defense weapon? Thanks
I can give my opinion, of course, but I will hit the books and try to research it so I can give you more than just that.
@@JamesReeves Expand your research to cases involving all NFA items. The last I looked into it, there were 2 different guys who defended themselves with machine guns and their stories are completely insane (as were their prosecutions). The AI renderings will be priceless.
@@JamesReeves definitely curious about NFA items as well. Considering how an AR is often cited as most effective vs. previous video on jail time, and then extrapolating to SBR’s being even more effective in close quarters vs. “extra evil” NFA firearms/suppressors. Also wondering how naming may affect outcome, I.e. military designation on DD Mk 18 vs defense in name of DD PDW.
Would that be the case of FAFO vs Dindu Nuffin?
@@RW7579 The spoiler alert here (at least in the 2 cases I'm thinking of where machine guns were involved) is that the defendants had slam-dunk self defense cases and spent _years_ defending themselves in court simply because they used machine guns to do it. In any conversation about NFA items being used defensively, eventually those two cases come up and the short answer becomes: "Don't".
With suppressors and SBRs becoming more popular during the internet age, there are probably more NFA cases to pull data from by now, but those were the 2 big ones for years.
2:28 James, that generative AI with the fully loaded high capacity assault revolver bullet cartridge clipazine had me rolling on the floor! Same with the investigator holding hands ( 8:42 ) with “Dr. Bob!” 😂 Please keep up the fantastic work!
Do you know what one he used? Has issues but insane that there are apps that just make stuff like this now.
here is the thing if i was defending myself in court and the DA was trying to paint a picture that i was a mean killer trying to kill some one that i shoot, and not focused on defending myself but rather murder, i would call to the stand a fire-arms expert and have them say to the court that Hollow points are designed for stopping power and to stop a person from doing what it is they are doing in self defense case trying to seriously harm some one to kill them..
I would also state that Using Hollow points is more responsable way to carry a gun because your less likely to to harm an innocent bystander with Hollow points rather then full metal jacket where it can pass though the bad person and hit a good person behind them..
Then i would have the expert ask do Police use Hollow Points in their carry guns on Duty, when he says yes, i would say then does that mean they are looking to kill people they are shooting on duty? then he would say no just to stop the suspect, then why are they not labeled killers trying to kill who ever they shoot?
You see i would make sure the Jury knows it goes both ways..
This would be a very easy argument to squash the DA's nonsense strategy that one who has hollow points are looking to kill..
In fact i would be able to make sure the jury Agree's that one who has hollow points is responsable and trying to not harm others around the person they are trying to shoot and not also have a bullet hit houses and cars or any one other innocent bystanders..
3 Reasons i carry hollow points..
(1) to Assure i stop who ever is trying to harm me,
(2) not potentially hit some one else or something else like a house or car or bike other then who ever i'm trying to shoot..
(3) which is related to #2 not have a full metal jacket bullet pass though my target and not faze my target allow him / her to continue to do what they are doing and maybe they might
not even know they was shot.. Where a Hollow point you will know you was shot and it will more likely incompassionate my target and stop them from their motion of what ever it is they are doing which i'm defending myself against..
The best defense is to minimize the amount of time you spend in democrat controlled areas.
Why? Don’t you guys claim that democrats are soft on crime? That should help you get off.
@@accuratealloysit's not a crime to defend yourself. So ya, the best defense is to get out of demoKKKruat run cities
@@accuratealloysnot necessarily crime, but democrats are pro criminal. The person with the malicious intent is who they side with
@@accuratealloysthey are soft on crime if you happen to fit the right demographics
@@accuratealloys IT is no claim its a fact. Democrats' ARE soft on crime. The other side is that they do in fact try to prosecute people that try to defend themselves and others, Which is essentially defending the criminals and thus SOFT ON CRIME. Don't act like the open looting that is constant in California is not happening as well.
I wasn’t aware until pretty recently that there are states that ban hollow point. What a wild set of logic that takes
Yeah. I learned that from The Sopranos. New Jersey is a seriously fucked up state.
I was surprised to learn that some states ban the possession or use of hollow point ammunition and only allow for law enforcement. Such as NJ. What an infringement.
correct
Except if the hollow point has a polymer tip like critical defense, NJ doesn’t consider the point to be hollow. Because the people who write Nj gun laws have zero gun knowledge
@@robgregory5136 it is what it is i guess, glad i dont live in new jersey so doesnt apply too me
My local gun shop in San Diego recommended hollow points for the home protection. They said it's because the full metal jacket have a way higher chance of going through the bad guy then into your neighbors house/apt.
I agreed
what type of firearm do you actually have and own and shoot ?
Been a cop for coming up on 21 years. The only time I've heard any ammunition referred to as "cop killer bullets" was in Lethal Weapon 3.
Lethal weapon 1 was the best 👌
It's hard to imagine anything being called a cop-killer unless it was a tungsten dart with a discarding sabot in a large calibre gun.
@@Quakeboy02 Im too old for this sh**
@@joalvarez6252I didn't mean to offend. But this idea of "cop killer bullets" is just silly. If the cop is wearing a vest, what's going to get though it? Is a lead .45 shell of any type? I don't know, but I'm guessing not. But tungsten weighs 1.7 times that of lead for the same volume. Which means you could machine a dart that was small enough that it would penetrate any vest, but still weigh the same as a lead bullet. It would be very expensive to have someone make this for you, though. Like I said, I didn't mean to offend. It was just an offhand comment.
@Quakeboy02 You're good, chief! Its best to wear at least level lll + armor! At the minimum, if you're going to wear level V, that's also good!
I carry Hornady Critical Duty because my edc is a duty sized firearm. The Hornady Critical Duty was designed for law enforcement and with the possibility of needing to consistently penetrate different barriers before having to get to the threat and with the federal penetration standards in mind. The critical duty will consistently penetrate barriers like automotive glass, body panels etc, it has that little polymer type plug in the hollow portion of the round to stop barriers like denim from clogging the round and preventing expansion. It’s not the best round at penetrating ballistic gel but it offers really consistently lethal penetration through a variety of barriers that a person may encounter. Stuff like denim and other fabrics are really tough on a lot of conventional hollow points same with automotive glass, automotive glass can chop some rounds in half obviously significantly changing the trajectory and the mass
The main objective of hollow point ammunition is to get the proper amount of penetration without overpenetration. This is explained in many of the FBI documentations that they use in their testing procedures. It's very common misconception that the primary function of hollow point is damage to your target. While that is also an equally important aspect, collateral damage will send you to prison for life.
And it's a misconception many shitbag prosecutors and lawyers will take full advantage of. Make sure your defense lawyer is at least somewhat gun savvy and KNOWS what they're taking about. Making the prosecution look like an unknowledgeable jackass in the eyes of the jury will only help your chances...Along with praying to everything holy that the judge isn't a shitheel activist, too.
"Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6!" I use Federal American Eagle, 165 grain .40 cal, FMJ for practice. For self-defense I use Federal HST .40 cal., 165 grain hollow points.
A general rule of thumb is either you can talk to somebody at your local sheriff's office state patrol office or even local police precinct and ask them what ammo their officers use. Once you have the exact brand and type you can then buy the same thing and if you ever have to use your firearm with those hollow points for a defensive shoot you can then say "well the ammo I use is the exact same that such and such police use". By doing so you are one covering your ass on your ammo choice and the prosecutor will have a hard time trying to use that against you because now if he goes for it now anyone shot by officers can now use their ammo Choice against them being that the prosecutor would then be setting a precedent.
More than likely the prosecutor will probably just not use that in general because it's the exact same ammo some Police Department the local, County or state is using.
It’s just too bad so many prosecutors hate caps too.
Our general rule of thumb is we never call 911 and we clean up the mess.
Unless the cops all use 9mm and you carry a .38 revolver....
James you crack me up man I really enjoy the way you tell the stories and narrate your videos
From an ex-military perspective … target round causes more penetration with a likelihood that you risk more collateral damage if you don’t know your background. From a law enforcement perspective… you will be imprisoned in GA as target round are not meant for duty carry. Hollow points expand upon impact slowing the velocity & slowing the penetration. ie preventing rounds from going thru the walls of apt to apt.
The illustrations were very well done in regards to telling the story.
revolver with a magazine 👌
I loved the alligator part . It reminded me of Exit 404 on I 75 in Florida. The welcome center there has a stuffed 14 ft alligator ,a tank full of baby gators and the parking lot is full of tables loaded with bags of oranges . That was a good one
In San Francisco where I used to live, if you use a BB gun against a criminal, you'll get life in prison and the criminal will be a millionaire.
i thought jersey was the only state that considers bb guns to be firearms? or were you just referring to self-defense laws in general?
I have never not at least laughed out loud at least once in James' videos. Love your content.
The revolver with the magazine was funny
Reminder that the prosecutor in the Rittenhouse trial tried to make the case that Kyle using FMJ ammo was reckless endangerment of bystanders due to its “enhanced penetration”.
Worry about the trial if you get that far, until then carry whatever floats your boat.
I just finished my CCW class last week in Virginia and the instructor told us to use hollow points for self defense and don't use full metal jackets.
I had USCCA when I first started carrying but switched on the spot after attending a U.S. Law seminar about 5 years ago. Also I don't see how some prosecutors can live with themselves sending people just protecting themselves to jail. I'd like to see how it would turn out if the shoe was on the other foot and they had to hire the very defense attorney they go up AGAINST in the courtroom.
More details, what's wrong with the uscca insurance
@@AntiFakeJewsRev2-9-0Zach9-6 James could better explain than myself, but from what I understand there are many times when USCCA will concoct a reason not to defend people and sometimes even ask for their money back
@@AntiFakeJewsRev2-9-0Zach9-6 look up attornies on retainer they give a good explanation
@@AntiFakeJewsRev2-9-0Zach9-6its an isurance company. Use attorney on retainer instead
@@AntiFakeJewsRev2-9-0Zach9-6 USCCA will drop you if you are charged with a crime.
These illustrations are fantastic man. Love it.
I shelled out 50 bucks to try different generative AI programs so I was hoping that you guys would like them and I didn’t just piss away 50.
@@JamesReeves$50 well spent. They nailed the ridiculous liberal media depictions of "gun crime" in the United States. I had to watch the video twice to capture the seriousness of the topic.
The revolver has a high capacity assault magazine! @@jasonromo6499
So, if this can send you to JAIL for using it in a self defense situation than why don't they arrest the makers of it for promoting it as a defensive ammunition? I call bs.
Just found your channel. My complements on your story telling. You had me for the entire 11 minutes.
Also, thank you for the Federal HST recommendation. I'll look into that.
It's the best in the hollowpoint category. Only losing to specific corbon dpx and one other.
However there's a new age of bullet technology called fluted ammo. The best models being underwood and g2 or g9 fluted ammo. It has the same penetration as hollowppints but created permanent wound channels just about twice the diameter of a hollow point. However these only work in high velocity loads.
So hollows are still the king with .45 and .40 and other slow calibers. While fluted ammo is the king with 10mm, 357 sig, 9mm etc.
Federal punch ammunition is almost as good as Federal HST
If you happen to have to defend yourself and while using FMJ bullets, there's a high likelihood that there will be over penetration and could possibly hurt someone else. I always and only carry hollow points.
Uh it's vary depending on handgun ballistic all handguns don't end in the same Bullet ballistic result.
@@esonupontoo5520ok knit picker... you know what he's saying.
My main fear in a self defense situation is over penetration, hallow points I feel would be less likely to over penetrate ideally stopping in the first target and not injuring anyone near by
Gotta mention that during the Kyle rittenhouse case the (feckless) prosecutor argued that fmj ammunition was "military grade and made to kill"
@@manny022 I think so, even though that was proven to buy even have happened
I really really enjoyed your delivery of “a crack cocaine addict or as we call them in Florida citizens” well done 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 it made me laugh out loud literally as well.
I don’t know. When I buy “hollow points”, they are under the sign that says “defensive ammunition”.
So if i use hollow points i can go to jail. But if i use FMJ and it goes through my target and hits something or someone I didnt intend to, i go to jail. Yeah our justice system is fucked.
Isn't the entire point of hollow points is to keep the ammo from going threw your target and into another target and so on?
This was the same argument used in the Long case by the defense. I did not talk about it in my video, but apparently the jury didn’t buy it.
It's a good idea to find out what your local police precinct uses and use that. Makes it much more difficult for a prosecutor to demonize the ammo that the police carry.
I get asked all of the time "will it hurt me in court if I use hollow points to defend myself?" Surprisingly, the answer is: "it depends."
It depends on whether you were actually defending yourself and not committing attempted murder like the people in the cited examples.
Totally off topic here, but I noticed that you have a 42nd Infantry “Rainbow” Division patch on the wall behind you. My grandfather was in that unit during WWII, and it’s cool to see this rarely talked about unit being represented.
From a legal standpoint, it is very easy to defend a client's actions when carrying hollowpoints. It is especially easier when they are carrying a brand that a local or fedral law enforcement agency carries. Example, your honor my client chose to carry said round due to his studies showing professional law enforcement agencies trust them to reliably act when needed to be used.
I wonder how this would go down with the same judges? "Your Honor, I obviously did NOT intend to kill him, because I unloaded the hollow points and put in full metal jacketed rounds." I'm guessing like a led balloon.
You should talk about how telling the police to do their job can get your CCW revoked. Check out Vince Ricci in LA, who the LAPD revoked his license because he yelled at them to do their job
That is absurd. The guy was at his house. CCW doesn't matter.