Should You Post or Swing Your Arm When Kicking?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2022
- This was an impromptu discussion about the benefits of posting over swinging the arm when kicking that I had with Shane from @fighttips and the dogmatic way that beginners or intermediate practitioners tend to view techniques.
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Music:
Title Song is Lying Low
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These two, back at it again trying to prove to people they know what they’re talking about when it comes to striking.
And here you are... subscribed.
🕺
@@hard2hurt lol I think he’s being satirical.
i love ICEY MIKEY
They're just martial arts crisis actors, it's a big conspiracy once you look into it. Shane isn't even real, he's made of pure CG, nobody is that handsome after being a Muay Thai coach for as many years as he claims... can't say the same for Icy Mike @hard2hurt def not CG :P
I would just go to the body
Fair.
You could also just go to the body when your opponent goes to the body
@@silasginell9251body-ception
@@silasginell9251 just Raiden vs Armstrong each other the whole fight lol
@@hard2hurt OK then, just let me quickly acquiesce your good point, I thought it made logical sense - a reasonable stance.
Mike is one of the nicest assholes I've met.
I read "is" as "has" at first glance lol
@@yagottapaythetrolltoll3127 LMAO
@@yagottapaythetrolltoll3127 Personally, I think Mike's appearance down there isn't relevant to the content he posts, but that's just me.
@@yagottapaythetrolltoll3127 name checks out
We need more Shane & IcyMike
I agree
Ngl. FightTIPS is the first MA channel I ever watched. I think the first video was something in the Fight Like series. And Mike taught me a lot of dirty setups, counters and techniques that improved my fighting as I started doing competitive kumite as I grew up. Two of the most helpful channels I’ve ever watched
Right on👍👍👊👊
I have been watching fight tips for years. Shout out to the self defense OG👍👍
My close friend trained at a different gym. Every time we spar he tells me not to swing or post me arm because my face is exposed. I tell him just punish it whenever I do it. He still hasn't punched me in the face when I throw a kick.
It's like they can't even hear themselves.
I have the opposite problem, ppl just ignore my kicks because we spar light and they just bulldoze me every time I kick 🤦🏼♀️ and I don't wanna escalate by throwing harder kicks because I'm older, smaller, slower, weaker, and I'll get annihilated, but like how do I get people to use the right mindset?
@@willowelizabethryder4141 maybe try to focuse on lending the kicks after small combos to the head and if it still not working maybe even stick your foot as a frame for short time and push them with it h
@@skiller242 yeah I def throw hands first a lot of the time. And I do the low kick to teep I saw in one of icy Mike's videos which works pretty well if I'm not too slow. If they really frustrate me I just play range and stop kick thighs every time they move in, but that doesn't really give me the opportunity to work on my stuff ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess there are good sparring partners and not so good sparring partners
@@willowelizabethryder4141 Escalate!☺❤
Mrs. Hard2Hurt went to the body with that last comment 🤣
oh man. Mike's chaos and comedy and Shane's professionalism with him cracking up is such a good combo.
3:23 the “that’s true” ad lib from Shane cracked me up 😂😂
Very matter-of-factly, yes. :-D
🤷♂️
Mike man, I wish I lived close enough to get the kinda workout you got today, look at that shirt! If I could do that a few times a week I'd be 50lbs lighter. Another great video man, keep it up
Umm... lol. I think it was just hot and I was nervous.
@@hard2hurt From being so close to a celebrity? ;-)
It’s crazy how much I have learned from watching these videos.
YO MAMMAAAAA
I love the application of self-defense situational awareness in this video. Mike spots potential trouble and immediately attempts to avoid it.
Best defense: no be there.
At my gym we start with the swing to develop power and technique, then as we get more advanced it turns into a half swing that ends on the post.
Same here. Basically progression training. Same way with lead hooks for example. At first, teaching it where you pivot your foot to develop the hip turn and when they get to a point where they can throw the technique well, we're then advised not to turn the foot over all the way every time and just use the hips.
i recently moved so i switched gym and my new muay thai coach wanted me to try posting or just keeping your arm pointed at the opponent so i asked him witch is better he said both are good but the best is to know both and when to do either
This is the way
Yes. Throw a punch at the same time as you kick. You'll confuse both your opponents and your body.
Yeah since I'm already confused, I'll just drag them into the mud with me!
End the combination by asking your opponent a math problem. It'll be a TKO.
what is this? drunken master kung fu?
I absolutely love the contrast of Icy Mike getting all riled up (about self-important idiots) - and Shane being totally zen about it. :-)
It's like he's the wise man from the mountain who's seen it all a thousand times and Mike is the young kid complaining to him … even though Shane looks to be younger.
Only 85%? That's CRAZY. Congrats and keep up the awesome work!
I was taught to swing the arm, but more horizontally than the traditional muay thai style, and not to draw it too far back. I guess its sort of like a hybrid between a post and a swing. Seems to work well for me.
The point is to lean back and have the shoulder covering the face. Both are correct. U need the arm framing to teach u to use the shoulder to cover and lean back otherwise people learn bad habits just swinging the arm without leaning back with their face exposed.
I think in using any technique(s), context matters. If you're in an MMA setting where your opponent doesn't really have an answer to these kicks, by all mean, swing and go full force. If you're in a kickboxing setting, and your opponent knows how to answer power round kicks, than maybe it's a good idea to post and keep up a guard after attacking.
That’s a valid point. People freaking eat kicks in MMA, or at least just tuck in arm in and shell up to take the body kick. But maybe posting can help prevent a takedown in an MMA context. I’d say though if you going against someone who has no legit solution (like catching, moving, or checking) a kick, by all means swing that arm and let it rip haha
I enjoy so much this collabs with Shane!
Been a Fight Tips fan for a while. This vid made me an Icy 🥶 Mike fan. Subbed.
I'm so glad you guys did this. When I was first taught the Thai leg kick (way back when I was 16), I was taught to keep my guard. Then -- for a long long time -- I got away from doing much kicking. A couple years ago I started trying to pick back up the core Thai kicks -- just the low round kick and the teep. And, I started swinging my arm, because....I don't know why. It doesn't feel particularly comfortable or powerful. Because of this vid I'm going to re-examine going back to the guard or posting methods. Thanks.
Was making a video playlist for my homie getting into martial arts and literally just added like 50 hard 2 hurt vids Mike your wealth of knowledge is nice as fuck to have on tap
i like your style and the transition from personal self defense mindset to crowd psychology
I like that approach of teaching to do the post and then letting people work out the arm swing for power etc.
I laugh hard at every video that is hosted or includes Mike 🙌🏼
Great video, I swing my arm but protect my head with the other arm, will try the post as you demonstrate and see how I go with it. Hard to argue with the defense benefits of the post.
Now I got something new to work on thanks mike and that was funny and entertaining to watch lol
Definitely just go to the body! Great video.
The way I've been taught by my coach James Meals (who Shane knows so you have someone to back his skill) is to chop shoulder level and your chop should end up in line with your chest. If you rotate on your kick properly it ends up like a "post" but you get the counter balance of the chop
Posting is superior! If they back up I just push advance or pendulum and turn it into a very unexpected jab 😈
This video has some decent points but as someone with 25 years of experience, I don’t think either of you could fight your way out of a wet paper bag
Shane’s gym is so dope geez that’s the dream frfr
It's so funny that the one shot you hit me with when we sparred (you were very nice to me thank you) that made me go "woo gotta block that" was when very politely slapped me in the ribs with a left. I thought I was being so smart and you JUST WENT TO THE BODY
I remember when I was learning the MT kick eons ago and did the arm swing for the first time. The power difference was soooo satisfying. Unfortunately, I was learning that kick in isolation in JKD as opposed to in combination with other MT techniques, so I had this one brutal kick but it was basically an entry that was followed up with boxing strikes because I had no idea how to properly recover from the arm swing.
I've never done posting but I can see the worth.
This was a good video. 🙏 Thanks Icy Mike I laughed so hard when he said kill em with kindness because I knew u were gonna have a reaction to that LOL
Hi, Mike! First of all, I love watching your videos on combat sports and self-defense because of how you test those theories/techniques and you make really good points about them. Your "no-nonsense" approach is amazing!
I have a question regarding items for self-defense. What do you think of combat boots or safety boots with steel toe cap and kevlar midsole for self defense? Would the added protection and weight make it a great self-defense aid? Assuming the person trains in combat sports like kickboxing or Muay Thai and would like to add a bit of oomph & safety to his kicks in street self-defense situations.
Could you perhaps provide some insight on that? If possible, maybe you could even consider making this a topic in your upcoming videos.
I'd love to see a video on punching while you move, and volume striking! Sean Strickland - Jared Cannonier was a good example of punching and moving, for inspiration
We teach keeping one hand out front like your posting suggestion. I put this to the test last night when sparring. As my partner threw a kick I would follow up with straight punch to the head. When he kept a hand out front it was difficult to find an opening and land my punch. When the hand wasn't out front my punch landed a lot. Using my partner's movement (telegraphing) and distance management really made this work well for me.
"Have you tried being nice?" Is definitely the craziest advice ever given in a hard2hurt video.
My professor is OG Muay Thai. He does both. Even during combos we have to copy. 1st time he will throw what will be a hook but then is a kick then the second time it will be hand close to his face. He just does it all. Good ol saying he has is "Find the variation that you can make work without compensation of your potential in that move"
so i was planning on flying to LA and I'd love to come play with you guys in sparring and I am absolutely going for as many body shots as humanly possible
Nice video, feel like whats being spoken about is very situational from my personal experience, definitely agree that you should post the arm for a low/ mid kicks so you have a defense in the case the opponent catches a leg/ moves in close but if you're going to kick someone in the head, then posting the arm instead of swinging it will leave you off balance.
It’s OK Mike. Remember to keep your energy in the positive and forgive and forget the things you can’t affect. Those that disagree will always be there.
I have found both to be useful in different context. If it's more likely they are trying to counter and punish me for my kicks I will post and if I have them in a position where they can't or won't counter and my confidence is up I will swing my arms to add extra power and do everything to really dig into them, and in rare cases using arm swing to actually swat away the arms to open up counter kick opportunities. But I think that as much as people on the internet complain about technique they forget context. Context is king. I love this video it came out just in time, I had a bare knuckle kickboxing fight and posting while I kick saved my noggin on multiple occasions. Guy had a ridiculous reach. In fact I would be stoked if you did a new video on entering and exiting on guys with a reach advantage because I felt like that was definitely stalling my offense out in the moment. Thanks Icy Mike. You're awesome.
Nicey Mike in future please
I absolutely love how Shane recommends "Kill them with Kindness" and Icy Mike is like... bro not here. Don't do me like that. At least you could see it in his eyes :D This was an awesome video!
Thanks for another video H2H.
“alright that’s the end of that video” 😂 thats great
Best ending to a video ever.
Posting is a really good cue for teaching roundhouse kicks. I got to steal that. I recently taught a Muay Thai workshop at a festival and the roundhouse kicks were a disaster. In that kind of class format there just isn't enough time to teach it the way a normal kickboxing school would teach it.
After 36 years of training in many different styles i learned to do what works for you I swing my arm through for more power on some of my kicks and gaurd with other kicks
posting or at least keeping the arm out front gives the option of delivering forward thrusting kick or a roundhouse from the same starting position.
"Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is essentially your own.” - Bruce Lee
This is why we love you Mike lmaooo
I have countered a low kick with a body punch in sparring before, but it's with the arm on the opposite side of the kick so that putting weight into the punch also braces the targeted quad against the kick (and it only really works against a similar-sized person if they lean forward on the kick without posting). Punching at their kicking side is a terrible idea 🤣
They COULD go to the body under certain circumstances, but its like anything else, it depends on how you have trained. Back when I was in karate, I used to go to the body as part of an overall counter, but rarely as a stand alone. in the example you were showing, it would only work if they cleared the hand posted on the shoulder first thus allowing them to pivot.
Yea, the problem is they (probably) aren't saying that. They're probably saying "JUST go for the body, or I'll just go for the body if he did that".
I hope Duane Ludwig has a channel like this. He teaches techniques and combos which he himself did in his fights. I hope you show us, too, fights you had and the techniques you did.
When you said "you need to turn to punch" at close range, suddenly my 10+ years of karate basics of not turning as much to punch, made sense. It's literally made for close quarters combat and self defence. Of course it's not going to generate as much force as a boxing strike. Now combine that with a nukite to the rib, you're at the least good to disengage and run!
My general rule of thumb is on anything fighting is "did I get punched/kicked/tackled/submitted by trying whatever I was trying?"
If the answer is no, I tend to keep doing it. So if you're not getting punched in the face, or God forbid THE BODY, then keep posting or swinging. If you're feeling really crazy, switch it up depending on the moment-to-moment decisions you're making in the fight.
Very interesting 🤔
Doing my first PKB this weekend LFG
so i was taught to swing and follow up with a same side hook. The hook isnt meant to be a strong one, just something to check your opponent/partner when they trying coming in on you. I like doing all variations though :)
I’m learning Muay Thai now, and it feels weird to hit with the shin, it takes away range. Wish there was a video on leg placement and where you can kick someone with the foot without getting hurt.
Watching Shane type on the invisible keyboard while wearing boxing gloves is kind of...... Adorable?
I'll say that it also depends on if it's leg kicks or high kicks.
I would definitely swing the arm on a high kick. But not on low kicks.
My coach taught me to swing my arm across the face and it helps with getting countered because people that are halfway decent know to respond with punches when you're off balance.
I can just see Icy Mike at his computer typing with his boxing gloves on 😂
My Thai coach taught me to swing the arm but not downwards, swing it at face height horizontally.
So funny at the end
The best technique is the one that works
The best club i went to did lots of LIGHT sparring and the best way to learn was to try stuff in sparring. Now i go to a super technical class that dosent spar much and i miss just figuring stuff out by actual sparring
Cool video.
I'd still go to the body though. No counter except them going to the body, then just go to theirs. Unstoppable.
I would just stand up
I've been saying & teaching this for years! Yeah, you'll get more power throwing your arm down, but where's your defence to a counter?
Ernesto Hoost told his student in his seminar to swing the arm to get more power in your kicks
My coach told me something that was really useful in life in general and in martial arts. He basicaly said: Every time I say "always do X" what I really mean is "right now you should do X for training but in real life there are plenty of reasons/times to not do X". For example, take the basic 3x boxing combos(112, 212, 123, 432, etc) and how I was first taught on the ones like 212 to *always* switch kick but then after a few months I started working on my front round kick instead of always doing a switch kick/knee. I've had more than one assclown sniker at me while doing leg hold exercises too and I usually just think "yeah keep laughing but I know these excerises are why my rear round kick would probably send you to the hospital after just 2 or 3"
For me there is two ways of roundhouse low kicks:
1) fast pendulum/ probing style kicks
(Mostly inside lowkicks for me)
Get head of center line and lean back a bit to not get hit does the thing for me. No need to post to defend punches.
2) full power low kicks
- In offense: setup with feints/ punches good rotation, hand swing and power. Usually you should mess with the opponents balance/posture with a good lowkick making it hard to hit you with a punch. After kicking step away to the side/back. Take the head off centerline still.
I think you will get countered if you throw naked kicks or predictable kicks. I also don't think that posted arm will defend well against an overhand.
Long story short: I am team pro arm swing
When you're doing kicks on the heavy bag, do you post or swing?
You've yelled at me for changing my mind to agree with you. Lol
I find the concept of "just do (fill in the blank)" seems to happen in every form of martial art. I just heard that this a couple days ago while in my BJJ class. We were doing work escaping the mount and someone asked a question and the "just do...) came up. It seems so simple but if your opponent has 50lbs on you, nothing is simple.
Posting is the way Imo.. I like how Robert Whittaker throws his with the feint jab or 1-2 that turns into a post mid way
"Kill em with kindness" response face!
I would just do the 5 point palm exploding heart technique , my mate dave from the pub taught me it after he spent 58 years learning at the Japanese kung fu ninja badman academy
Allow me to preface this again by saying I have NEVER fought. NEVER sparred. NEVER been to a gym. I just have a heavy bag that I whack around sometimes and unrestricted access to combat sports TH-cam channels.
All that being said, I have a question. Is there any legitimacy to posting on an opponents guard and then swinging at some point during the kick while maintaining control of their guard in an attempt to manipulate it? In my mind, if I manage to pull their weight forward, they’ll be less able to do a textbook check on a low kick. It would also pull their elbow away from their body leaving it more exposed, allowing a round kick or a front kick to more easily land.
Again, just a fat nerd and too much time to think about fights I’ll never be in.
Yeah that's a good one as well. It's all a sliding scale with tons of valid points between the extremes.
At the end of the video there was something like "We had a conversation last night about being kind" which made me think about asking several questions that still puzzle me (after many years of being too old for street fight challenges). I was always kind to everybody when I was 20+ and never hurt anyone. I suspect the hormone is serotonin. I could smile in a street fight. Crazy? But serotonin does not shut down creative thinking. How many good fighters are kind and smile, even while fighting? As a downside, do they also have higher chance of accidents because of their experimental attitude?
I will totally go to that with that!
easy! I challenge you, come to Rabat Morocco :P
I post when sparring only because I don’t need or want to kick hard. Arm swing for pads and bags. It’s already stated in the video plus numerous other professional fighter swing the arm produces a much more powerful kick which is something you will definitely want an professional fight. Legs are longer than arms so the likelihood of someone punching you after you kicked them is rare. It’s more likely to get punched before you have a chance land your kick and posting won’t help.
Have a sparring session with Shane, Seth, whoever. Have them do whatever they want but all you can do is “just go to the body”
Geeze! These people who say, "just go to the body", have no clue what they are talking about. Everyone know that you attack the balls! It's always the balls! That should always be your main target! You're welcome for my highly educated TH-cam knowledge that I should definitely charge for, but I don't because I am so humble and I want to help.
I also like and post on my own comments.
Great video do you still shadowbox if so how many minutes
I post when I kick I don't remember a coach telling me to do it though I just kinda picked it up when first learning the round kick
Mike we gone need that sidekick in sparring compilation please
Am I wrong here when I always thought swinging your arm like that is good for learning balance, like at the beginning, when you’re learning how to do the kick etc. But not to do so when sparring or when you can balance yourself properly unless…. Let’s say, you’re good enough to know when it’s appropriate for you to temporarily forgo fundamentals, and/or know the difference between when or not to go for max power.
I’ve always posted when throwing kicks like that and it’s been so long since I can remember (if I’m remembering correctly) my instructor explaining something along those lines so I may not be explaining this the way I should…plus I’ve never been told to do otherwise (not broke don’t fix it kinda thing) i just hope my thought was understandable.
Just today I had discusstion about it in my mma traning and we got to the idea that you should swtich depend on the opponets skills and behaver and if you wanna cut them in half or just do damage. you forgot to say that it help for takedown defence becuase you already have frame
If he's shorter then me o can swing. If my size or bigger post or keep that hand up so I don't get counter
@ 4:18 I think some people also are trying to figure out how their current knowledge fits with what you're trying to teach....just some of them don't know how to do it elegantly.
I will say a good benefit of keeping the arms up is that it can be more practical to follow up with a punch
so which is better
posting or swing?
People just want to prove they know best. You're no different. Every instructor/coach will tell you all the reasons why their way is best, and dissect everyone else's way. I used to get annoyed when teaching a complete beginner something, and they'd say 'yeah but I could just do this, or that would never work because.... I went through a phase of explaining yes but I've simplified and slowed it down, would you like to try at full speed? Now I'm more likely to say they're right, it will never work for them, because they've dismissed it before they've even learned it, so there's no point continuing.
I mean to be honest: You laid into me when I said I wasn't a martial artist last time, but I still lav ya, ya questioning un-kind man you!
Even if someone does counter to your body, just adapt to swing your arm down which shouldn’t be to hard if you practice some