SNS 288 Machining an 18 Inch Straight Edge
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ม.ค. 2020
- This week I share the machining of the 18" straight edge that was given to me by @Tools4Machines Gary Cude.
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My second TH-cam channel that covers our fun explorations and traveling.
Abom Adventures / @abomadventures - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I'm 70 yrs old. You never stop learning from others. I enjoy your work Adam. Fifty five yrs ago when I was in a shop the shaper was my favorite machine.
I"m not a machinist but I do appreciate the accuracy of your work Adam. I like your humble nature and that you show your mistakes/flaws in what you do as well. I've learned a lot from your channel. Keep up the great work.
Really like that you show the occasional mistake and how to learn from it. It’s the most you can ever expect because mistakes will always happen. We’re only human!
Got my first lathe. 8" x 16" 1883 WC Young made in Worcester Massachusetts. Wanted to learn how to make bushings and other parts for my vintage garden tractors. Been following your channel for a couple years now. Learned many things from watching your videos. Keep up the great work.
Adam you should get a Flir cam so you can show all the thermal differences and changes as a piece is machined. It would also be useful to monitor your machines and see how they heat up as they work. Would make for some amazing cutting edge content.
Pun intended?😜
Ah, This Old Tony and Abom79 uploading videos. Nice weekend.
And AVE
The problem with MOST not ALL comments about this machine is that people know very little about it. The comment that you read, without reading it, was obviously by someone who is an armchair expert. Just do your thing man.
The beautiful thing about TH-cam is those who try to tell you you're wrong are free to create content themselves to prove it. Keep up the great work, I'm learning a lot about stuff I'll probably never do myself but it's great content.
Adam, thank you for reminding people that there's a lot of good information still found in books. A good personal reference library is worth its weight in gold!
30 years ago, I learned to use this machine. I had no idea people still use it. Very nice and proffesional use of that machine.
They were old then. We had one at school mid '70's.
Adam, your friends here won't gig you for thinking you still have something to learn from someone. Keep on doing your thing. You obviously put a lifetime of effort into your craft, so don't let some putz in TH-cam comments get to you.
"The darkest day in a man's life, is when he gets something for nothing." Adam you are a hard working guy.
I'm a new subscriber. My Dad was a machinist for over 30 yrs before he retired. I went through my machinist apprenticeship right out of high school. I worked with manual machines for 10 yrs before I went to a shop that had CNCs. I always loved working on manual machines. I felt a real connection when I operated them. The CNCs can do amazing things at a much faster pace but I never had the connection with them like I did with the old manual stuff. I really enjoy your channel. I been retired now for 5 years and It's like going back in time when I was in my early 20s when I watch your videos. Thanks!
Love watching a big Shaper do its work. Takes me back to High School -1968-70.
Same for me! :-))
Always trust your books, take comments with a grain of salt
The machinist bible is well worth the money
@@andrewsheppard4698 Really? Gee, ya think? Who would have thought! Thanks for spreading the word Andrew..
You will treasure that camel back the rest of your life as a reminder. I'm 74 years old and still have a two little pieces of epoxy that I got when I worked at Rockwell, age 34, as a reminder to test and not believe what I'm told. You might ask why I kept two pieces...well, they were supposed to be just one. If you ever get down this way, I'll buy you a beer and tell you the story.
Keep up the great work...what you are doing is incredibly valuable. Especially now at the start of this social information age.
Big fan.
Never doubt yourself
Again, the shaper is the star of the shop!
👍👍
I love the show it brings back great memories & understand the lingo; my wife doesn’t. I’m retired recently 27 years USAF Aviation & 20 years with Cal Fire Aviation. I don’t think anyone would let me hang around the shop and watch like Adam does; plus he’s a superior machinist & a nice guy 😎
I'm not an ASMR guy by any means, but I love how that shaper sounds. You have a very high quality microphone. Maybe you could make an audio soundtrack of the shaper cutting with a black screen for nighty night time.
hehh, yes I kind of like some sounds of machines as well, a dull aircompresser sound, hand sanding, the belt sander and random orbital sander, blacksmithing without a ringing anvil reminds me of growing up and dad would still be out in the shop and I would be sitting on the couch just before bed watching tv. oh and I like the sound of sword polishing, and stone sharpening, but not lathe chatter or sharp sounds.
Most peolpe new to a shaper get taught a lesson on clapper box angle. You came out well and with a good lesson for all of us: the best intentioned advice may not be the advice you need. It's better to check with compenent authority.
And yep, breakout proof your work with am exit champher.
A good broad nosed surface as you showed about 35:00 looks like gray satin ribbon laid edge to edge. I've planed many a worn machine tool casting using that exact technique. If your planer is straight and your set-up correct, all the scraper hand has to do to the ways you tooled using broad nose technique is scrape for bearing. Good prep machining cuts total machine axis reconditioning time by a large fraction.
I worked with a retired rebuilder reconditioning a #4 K&T Model K. I planed and he scraped. We reworked the column, knee, saddle, and table in just over a week. While he finished fine tuning for geometry, I made him a set of new gibs. Some people are a real pleasure to work with.
I am _this_ far from hunting down a shaper to put in my shop, just so I can sit down next to it and listen while it slowly carves leftover scrap to chips.
Updates?
@@davidparker.2227 he bought one and is to busy listening to it to reply
You can safely ignore most comments, arm chair machinists are everywhere BUT actually running a machine.
for old style machine the old style books are a must read those old machinists new their stuff!!
Didn't think cutting a flat surface could be so interesting. Thanks for the video.
Love the shaper work. Keep doing what your doing Adam. I have got into many situations where I lock or limit the clappers movement. I've made the same mistake as you showed 👍 Good camera work also.
What you make mistakes LOL
@@ypop417 Only once. ;>
@@SteveSummers I feel better now ;)
At first glance, the tool mark leading into that chip looked like a crack. I thought you'd scraped out the part. So glad it turned out! Don't listen to the haters and the baiters... you're the expert as far as I'm concerned.
Ya gotta remember that you are a master machinist and us, the peanut gallery are mostly in awe of your skills. Those that comment to "help", rarely have the years of experience you do.
Awsome video i love watching this type of stuff i just wish i was smart enough to even think of doing this type of work
BTW thanks for showing the setup. not enough creators show the important/boring little things. HI AGAIN P
Never seen a milling machine like that before, it is an awesome animal. Didn't know what the hell was going on at first but was thoroughly inthralled the whole way. It's always good watching a perfectionist and machinist doing what they do best. Hypnotizing. Thanks for sharing.
Your attention to detail in getting them machined close should save tons of time in getting things scraped in when you get to that. I love all the viewer comments and feedback on my channel but admit sometimes it can be tricky deciding the accuracy of some of the things that are said. Of course not all books are right either. That is why we live life and hopefully get wiser with age as we get better equipped to decipher the truth from the fiction. :-)
Adam, I hope you're enjoying this.
It seems like you realize the whole world is watching you again. Almost like a grouchy shop teacher. Maybe just a busy day?
We watch because we enjoy your content.
Thanks for what you do!
This is such a great channel. I'm a bladesmith by profession and have picked up/ learned some usefull tricks regarding turning and some basic milling from you. Being from South Africa I only get to watch SNS on Sunday mornings. It sure is a treat getting up early, fix me some coffee and watch. Thanks for all the great videos.
As a metallurgist, I really enjoy your work. The step-by-step process, with explanations is really interesting.
One remark/suggestion on the honing you do by sliding the stone underneath the tool steel. You might want to try using a single sheet of baking paper underneath the stone, instead of the normal paper you use to slide the stone. It's not much, but paper compresses a little, so the side-to-side movement will ever so slightly rock the stone when you do the honing. This can possibly create a tiny amount of curvature to the cutting edge, which would explain the striping you see on the finished surface. The edges of each finish cut pass will be just a fraction higher because the middle cuts deeper, which reveals itself after you finish with the flat stone.
There is such a huge amount of surface area bearing on the paper, and such a long bearing surface (about 6" by 3"), that is acting on such a small surface (about a ½"tool), that the amount of deviation is almost immeasurable, negligible, and inconsequential for this purpose.
@@xenonram I reasoned backwards from seeing the end result. The surface finish (after 3 finish cuts and honing with the precision ground stone) shows clear bands or stripes. The dull area on the surface is what appears to be your normal cut cast-iron finish. Seen under the microscope you'd see hills and valleys. Those bands are shinier than the rest of the surface because that's where (I assume) the stones ground the microscopic hills away to valley level. That must have been higher ground, as it were, before the stone was used.
Of course I can't tell for sure, I can only make an educated guess. To me, the reflective striping suggests that the cutting edge of the tool was not *entirely parallel* to the surface. The deviation on one side of the cutting face (or both sides, that's a possibility too) must have been minute but enough to cause difference in surface appearance.
Go to 31:07 in the video and look at the smudging on the paper. It's slightly darker in the middle. That also could be explained by the stone rocking ever so slightly side to size. Then again, of course I could be wrong.
@@xenonram how are you sure it's immeasurable? My personal opinion is that the lines are a result of the asymmetry of the material (one side is one height, the other side is lower by the depth of cut). Plus, the tool is slightly wider than the step over which causes the be loaded up slightly more on one side. This, in combination with the flex and "slop" in the machine causes an uneven surface. Neither of these things can be solved, they are inherent to the tool /process, but the compliance in the paper certainly plays a part too. With so many different variables at play which go into something like surface finish it's always going to be a combination of different things in varying magnitudes.
What I really love most about Adam, is how humble he is... Can machine better than the majority, but still feels the need to go to school!
that old shaper does some nice looking work. those old machine will outlive us all and probably our kids and grandkids.
No they won’t... good luck finding one doing actual production work!
@@bart300166 Didn't realize I was watching a production channel.... my mistake...
Listen, I understand they aren't viable for modern industry. Just like I own a paving company with millions of dollars of new equipment. I have problems with it all the time but my old 1970's backhoe out at my farm starts everytime I use. Does that mean I'm going to go buy all 1970's equipment? No but I like to play around with the old stuff for fun at my farm.
Top class machining Adam ,love the video
Has to be the best of the three I'd say. Fine job.
Nice job there Adam!
Cylinder Square - if you epoxy some neodymium magnets into those holes, you can use it on the side of parts to measure perpendicularity and squareness........
You have 3 generations of experience. I have been a subscriber for quite qwhile, long enough to see that you are very knowledgeable and tallented. Please don't let some self-appointed guru cause you to second guess yourself.
I would be like a kid in Disneyland in your workshop, really jelaous of all your machines and tools.
Nicely done.
Always enjoy the shaper.
And the smile I get seeing the Booth trio at the end of every SNS.
Thanks.
Nice Job Adam! I tend to not listen to other's advice unless I am having problems.
You are a very talented machinist, follow your instincts.
I love the striped look of the final cut. It's amazing how just .0001" difference between the tops and bottoms of those cuts shows up after you've stoned the surface. Very nice job.
As one of my instructors told me in "A School" - when you feel something is right go with your gut after checking twice on a setting. 99% right every time. Good video on the machining of those Straight Edges. The finishes are sweet. Waiting on your vid's of the scraping classes. Have a safe day.
It's interesting what can be learned from watching these videos. When truing up a 4x10 rough sawn ash plank, I realized I could use some of my old extruded rectangular aluminum hand rail as a straight edge. The plank came out very flat. I'm not sure how straight it is in the machinist world, but in the woodworking world it's very straight LOL. So thanks Adam for this content that turned out very helpful.
When you removed the straight edge from the scraper to look at the perfection, that's about the point where I would drop it and ding the corner! ;-)
Am I the only one who loves the sound a shaper makes when cutting?
Yes
yes you are that's a horrible sound.
Nope I like it too
Even though you were right (which made it even better), at least you’re not one of those guys that’s too hard headed to take new advice. And glad you had a book to prove it as well. I still don’t know anything about machining, but it’s awesome to watch metal just peel off like hot butter with those machines 😬
I like the way you tell it like it is. You got upset at listen to others when you know yourself what really should be. You always figure out what needs to be done. Just trust yourself you are a smart man in your trade.
Thanks for explaining the tool setup. Seeing is believing, I just couldn't get it straight in my head how the tool did not have some interference in the back stroke. The demonstration is very much appreciated.
Sofa machinists always know best 😂
LMAO My thoughts exactly. I hope he was squirming when Adam was explaining why he was right in the first place... I thought Adam handled the entire event like a gentleman and professionally!
I see lots of people have chimed in with the same advice. Be wary of the criticism of others. Its quite often not helpful, and sometimes its harmful. I'm afraid more than once I've suffered harm by making the mistake of allowing somebody's comments to influence my direction. Nice work Adam.
I really like these shaper videos!
I never got to use one of these back when I was doing my tool and die cert as a kid. But watched the instructor using one on one of his projects. It's one of those machines that I remember watching and thinking "man, there's GOT to be a better way" lol
Good work man, I love seeing real machine work. I never was able to get into the tool and die industry back in the day. Got my cert but everyone in my area at the time wanted an apprentice.....which you couldn't get unless you got a job so you could apprentice to someone...which you couldn't get unless you were an apprentice! I tried for three years and had to move on :(
You are right Adam, don't listen to people that don't know what they are talking about.
dude, he pulled out the book on 'em
Plumbers: Eyeball it, cut it long, cut a smidge more off at least once.
Carpenters: Measure twice, cut once.
Machinists: Measure thrice, indicate, cut once, indicate, hone, measure twice again, indicate the machine, cut again, hone, indicate..........4 hours later.....
I just did my Rucker straight edge on my shaper. It worked great and was a very fun project. Thank you for sharing.
Retired now but when I worked for Mc Donnell Douglas and later Boeing, (1978 2015) in the jig and fixture shop, we had a shaper, no one ever used it. We could do the work faster on the Vertical Mill. The only time the shaper was ever used was when someone was on the mill and the only machine left was the shaper and even then it mostly was only used for squaring angles. We sold it as excess equipment sometime in the early 80's. I have done a fair bit of scraping too.. that was a job you gave to the learners because it was such a PITA LOL! It takes 3 surfaces to scrape flat and takes forever. 123 blocks are great things to have. I must have 10 matched pair but each pair is pretty much only good to themselves as many were shop made and they can varry a 0.0001 or so from pair to pair. OK for setup work etc. but when it has to be right, you really pay attention to which blocks you use. Kind of fun to see that old machine in use again. We also had a plainer mill converted from a bed mill that worked like a shaper. It had about a 10 foot stroke and was used mostly for squaring Kirksite forming dies bases to be mounted into the presses. Ahhhh the good old days LOL We even had a pair of 3D tracer mills in the machine shop, the control heads leaked like a sive but you still could get a nice surface when tracing from wooden masters. FUN STUFF! :D
Hey Adam, thank you for another great video. I never let anyone make me second guess myself. Relax, you know your stuff and keep in mind that we all come here to watch you do your thing. As my Dad would say if someone didn't like him or something he had done...." Well, ya gotta travel light in the desert" which is a polite way of telling someone to go pound salt:)
We are learning from you not the other way around Adam, I started watching you and still learn every episode. You do excellent work. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Joe from off the hook Rod & Reel / and machine works.
I almost think you could machine a new dimension. Your work is incredible.
So satisfying using old school machines.
Your camerawork is top notch!
10:00 The lesson for all of us is to trust our own proven knowledge, and to approach advice from remote critics with solid scientific skepticism. If the critic is correct, you can discover that by experiment, but if you already have a system that works, don't ever allow another person's opinion to sway you without tests...
It amazes me how we went from finding small spheres of Iron in a fire pit to mighty machines with such precision in just a few thousand years!
The smart thing about that kind of straight edge, if it gets crooked it will still hold the steaks down on a grill. Great work Abom. and best of luck on the scraping. and thanks for yet another good time in your shop. 😉😍
Total respect for your honesty mate.
I have been watching you for years Adam. I do no machining work but I want to say that the positive takeaway from the negative results of doing what another commenter said, is that now you know that method does not work, you learned something and learning from results is always a good thing.
That's how science works ;-)
Great job Abom 79 the straight edge if you're looking for a name for it should be called Sydney after the Sydney Harbour Bridge in Australia it looks exactly like it really good job once again all the best from Australia 👍
Ooooh! The shaper. It's so satisfying to see it in action.
Your beginning to worry me Marcel.
Keep doing what you do and know. BTW....huge fan and long time follower. Just wondering if or when you will post a "fails" video. We almost never see a mistake. It would show people that you are in fact human.
Interesting machine. I've only seen one of these twice and this is the first one I've seen in work. I've been in a few machine shops in Scotland but never saw one of these. Even in a place that built ships gearboxes there wasn't any. They must had something similar.
Adam, I somehow stumbled upon your channel and now I'm so damn fascinated of the whole world of equipment and knowledge you so kindly provide us who doesn't work in a metal workshop. You are, by far, the best lecturer in this genre. With the accuracy you do things I'm sorry that you are across the atlantic. I would more than gladly place some projects of my own in your hands. The people I've met so far in these so called "metal workshops" slap a whole in a beam, with eyeballing and a rough measurement, while the holes you drill are within a hundreds of a millimeter. So, keep up the good work and I hope you get paid accordingly with the precision you take on the projects.
Can't wait for the scraping vids.
Me too, but Richard doesn't allow his classes to be videoed. However, I believe that Adam can video his own work as long as he doesn't video & post Richard's lectures & demonstrations. I believe that Keith Rucker mentioned this in one of his videos about a Richard King class.
Scraping is something I don't think I'll ever do, but that does not mean I don't know why. Thanks Abob79.
I`ve been watching your videos for a number of years now and they just get better and better. Good old fashioned work on the shaper, it just shows the quality of the machine and the operator when you can get down to five tenths of a thou on a machine which is sixty or seventy years old. Keep up the work please you are educating and entertaining a lot of us amateurs around the world.
Fantastic video what memories that brings back to me when I severed my apprenticeship as turner/machinist in the 1970’s. The shaping machine what a great tool we used it a lot during my apprenticeship especially on cast iron. Don't think its a machine you see much of now a days.
I have seen a lot of your videos and I can say only one thing: trust your own experience. After all these years, you know what you are doing. I have learned a lot from your instruction videos and I put them in practice. Works well for me. Thumbs up.
Never listen to the idiots in the comments, they are not usually professionals and mainly get their kicks from knocking other people down because they have no idea wtf they're talking about.
There are those that do and those who comment...
Awesome video! Great footage! It is a pleasure to watch your attention to detail. Thanks!
Clearest bit-grinding 101 I've seen yet. Really helpful for newbies like me, many thanks.
Thanks for the quality content you deliver, like the lapping technique using the precision stones.
Brings back memories of when I was a apprentice toolmaker, it was my job to run the shapers in the shop.
Wonderful. You don't see machining like this much anymore. It's a joy to watch.
That shaper fascinates me! I could watch it work all day.
Never let the commenters get in your head
I do so enjoy watching a true craftsman at work. I hope you have an apprentice because you have so much to pass along.
Lovely job Adam - Thank you so much for the video
I'm far from a machinist but I really enjoy your videos. It seems almost a lost art working with these machines.
Thanks for the video Adam.
Smart trick using sandpaper to help clamp your work also that shaper is like new, produces great results but using the planed surface for honing the tool parella deserves a shout out. . . .great teaching
Here's a little trick for indicating the ends of an uneven surface, as you've just had to do on the camel back.
Take two objects of the same thickness, such as a couple of pieces of key-stock or a couple of HSS tool blanks, and place them crosswise, one on each the end of the surface to be indicated.
Place a long parallel across them, so it lies along the length of the part to be indicated.
Now simply run the indicator along the parallel.
I've never seen a cylinder square, never even _heard_ of it. A very clever tool. I wonder who first had the idea for it, probably in the 1800's. The industrial revolution must've been a fantastic time to be alive! Though that might be too early for this machine on second thought. Thanks for showing it Adam.
I appreciate the clapper lesson on clearance. Thanks Abom.
Excellent job
I grew up In a machine shop 42 now your a rock star machist thanks
26:00 Sooo satisfying
I love the shaper!
I lose all track of time watching that thing.