When I was an apprentice, we made our own surface table. A local foundry would donate the raw castings for free. These had sat outside for 12momths, then rough machined, put outside for another 6 months. Then we got them, and hand scrapped them to final flatness. Regarding the reference to BMW F1 engines. These were 4 cyl, basically the engine block from the road cars. These would be built up as a normal road engine, then put into a company car. Then, after 6 months of use, they'd be stripped down and used for an F1 BMW engine. This cycle of pre F1 use would shake all the residual stresses out of the cyl block. Incidentally, was when F1 had turbos. Those engines saw flash readings of 1500hp on the dyno !!!
The close up on the return stroke finally triggered the light in my brain as to how the shaper doesn't make a mess out of the already machined surface. I think maybe the big stopover was what finally made it obvious that the tool is dragging over the next area to be cut and not the already cut surface. Great shot, Adam!
Why am I completely enthralled by watching this type of "entertainment"? Maybe I have asbergers or I'm autistic? Its sooo soothing for me. Great angles of video too by the way. Keep up the cool trance-like videos brother! SUB FO LIFE !
The reason you have the significant warpt on the bottom side. Cast Iron usually under stress when cast so after you cut the top the grain structure relief thus resulting in a few thousands warp and it would multipied uver the length and also the width so.the milling machine may be only part of the problem.
Hey Adam, as you know you can vary the stroke of the shaper. Hyundai adapted that linkage to the valve linkage to vary the duration and lift of a cam!!!! Trick shizzle! I recognized the linkage and connected the two!
I really appreciate those close shots of the movement during cutting, watched your videos for a while now and you have come a long way. Thanks for sharing your work.
Have you ever put an indicator on the end of the tool holder to see how much it actually springs while cutting? Just curious. I really enjoy your videos, keep it up!
Great video! From part 1 I was wondering about the stepover (when it actually happens). Your closeup camera work in part 2 gave me the answer: it happens during the entire back stroke, so that by the time the cutter gets all the way back, the whole stepover is complete. Well done!!
The reason for the "not cutting in the middle" problem in your first finishing run is that the tool flexed back. Its not always the best idea to use the toolholder backwards to let the tool flex out of the workpeace. for finishing cuts the sturdiness of the setup isn't that important as keeping the geometry as stiff als possible. Greetings from Germany!
I watched an old video before this one, probably about 3 years old and it wasn't until I did that I noticed exactly how much weight he has lost, well done Adam. Not sure if its something you are trying to do but you can definitely tell if you go back a few years.
One other source of going out of flat when you are machining, especially cast materials is that as the material cooled in the mold it induced stress. When you're machining you're removing that stressed material so the remaining material is moving to accommodate. The skin on a casting has th most stress built in. It's similar to weld shrinkage or pre-stress.
I noticed on the top side you were cutting only on the ends during your pre-finish passes and only in the middle on the bottom face. I assume the casting was not stress relieved... the "curvature" might be the stresses coming out during machining.
While I've used fixture plates before, and they're very handy when you need to move the work piece from machine to machine or even from layout on the surface plate to machine, I never thought about the tolerances of the plate. If I scribed a line with a height gage on a piece I'd just turn the mounted piece 90 degrees to scribe an intersecting line, not thinking about how square, flat, or parallel the fixture was or how consistent each fixture plate was to each other. We'd have one guy drill the holes, take the fixture plate to another guy to mill the slots between a couple of holes, and finally a third guy would bore out a big hole. Maybe it worked because the tolerances were so loose on what I was working on, but the better the plates, the better the finished part. Thanks for your videos. They're very interesting.
You may have locked-in stresses in your casting - I think your mysterious cutting problem is from machining off stressed material. Even gray cast iron will twist a bit if the metallurgy is off. It happens to a melt every now and then. Tramp nickel or something. I suggest you ramp and hold stress relief to 1200F. Then cryogenic treat after to -100F, or near as you can manage without taking a second mortgage. You'll have to skim the broad surfaces again but that's no great chore if you sprayed it with No-Scale before heating.
Enjoyed watching the operation. I find it extremely cool that you are carrying on as a third generation machinist. Something that is becoming very rare.
Adam I truly love the Precision in your work and your dedication to making that shaper work . good job I know you can do it I love to watch it thank you for making big iron work I know your viewer probably doesn't understand that the shaper does a job like no other and does it very well thank for keeping a dying art alive .much love you loyal veiwer
Adam, all I can say is wow, where the heck where you back in the early 80 when I was in tool&die class. That would have been so useful back then. Man you bring back the days when.....Thanks
I would love to work as an apprentice in your shop with you. I've worked in a warehouse for the past 20ish years until recently thanks to covid. But even before I was laid off I had been talking about wanting to get in to machine work. I've been watching you, AvE, ToT and NY CNC for years and really enjoy being able to make things. Currently I've only been able to afford some 3d printers but absolutely fell in love with designing parts and being able to turn a design in fusion 360 into a physical object in my hands in a matter of hours. Moving from plastics to metal and the precision work that you do is my ultimate goal.
You’re not going to have much plate left after you get done lol! I’m just giving you a hard time, looks amazing and I could watch the shaper go all day anyways. Plus, it’s good to know someone has at least close to as bad of ocd as myself haha. Keep up the awesome work!
I thought the quality of your video-photography in this vid was particularly impressive. I'm not a machineist but the pure visual aspect of this was beautiful...
First time seeing the automatic down feed in use. What a beautiful fixture table. Very jealous. Once you stone & debur she'll be slick as water. Then a whole lot of .75" holes. Are you making fixtures as well? The shaper noises are hypnotic. I could shave in the top surface!
Adam says, at 8:45, "I know you think I am crazy." No we don't !!! This is the essential Adam Booth. How in the world do you consistently cut to the accuracy you do? Third generation apprenticeship (growing up in the shop) coupled with an insane need to achieve perfection in your machine tools. With very nearly perfect tools, Adam is able to exhibit his Master Machinist Skills.
My OCD could not have left that un-machined dimple in surface! But that is my problem. Nice work my friend, I really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
I have a jos. Colladay 16” wood jointer made in 1903 with a shaper finished table and even after 117 years and living in unseated and terrible environments it’s flat and produces cuts that are perfect. A real testament to the quality of virgin cast iron, stress relieved cast iron and quality shaper work. And the lines are still visible and remind you of a bygone era.
Booth , one thing you can try is to use your finish tool at full width with your clearance grind, it made a world of difference on the boiler plate doors grandad worked, taking 1/2 th. Cut x2 with a 1/2 tool table adjustment between
In the milling video I mentioned that I thought it should have support in the middle. I think that's why you see the middle differences. The lack of support in the middle caused deflection. Support in the middle would also give it three points of contact. Anyway It looks like the shaper corrected for those previous issues.
Hi Adam! Good looking outcome, for SURE! One thought, would it alleviate some of the variations if you reduced the chips being dragged back over during the return stroke? Perhaps consider mounting EITHER a vacuum or blower to clear chips from surface in the return stroke. Just me "thinking" again. Ken
While the cutting pass(es) on a shaper may leave marks for each pass, those marks are so minute that you could never get the same surface from a milling machine without using a cutter head as wide as the work you're machining. Beautiful finish on the shaper, consistent, smooth & nicely tooled surface.
Abom79 making fragile spiral roll pins on the G&E shaper. I have the same problem with my Rambaudi mill at work plus I haven't been able to get the head trammed in vertical. I can't get the head to move in either direction. It's a good thing I don't have to work to the same level of precision you do. In other news, we acquired a little 618 Atlas lathe for making fixture pins. I'm in the process of repairing some small details, i.e. backlash, cross slide handle, tailstock clamp and lock.
I think that your high spot in the middle of the milling could be flex of the workpiece between the vises that you used to hold it....they seem to produce a tiny amount of flex up or down depending on the workpiece and which way it can flex.
Adam, you mention ears on the ends. Good but if add ears (2) spaced out on sides, could mount side ways. Use three point bolt down. to let over hang. How ever needed, for larger parts that need to overhang and still need support. The plate becomes way to support that over hang.
You mentioned that you try and keep tips of calipers at the same level when measuring, be nice to have some little attachments for each tip that would locate in the same place every time and act like a stop,kinda like a gear tooth vernier.
I was concerned about the thickness that was going to be left. Lol. Reminds me of my very brief apprenticeship. Every thing we made was under-size trying to get that elusive finish. Emery paper and stones were a total no-no!!
Two Questions: -why not get the base plate cut out with the fireball waterjet? (i really want to see that thing in action on thick metal :D) -will you ever show us the shaper doing something different then plain flat surfaces? something like a cross pattern with a V-shaped tool and high step-over. something you can't easily do with the milling machine unless you buy an expensive mill for it.
Of course if you bolt a plate to it and it isn't flat it likely will bow your work here. I think I would have tried filling that void with silver solder, or just plain nickle welded it just so it wouldn't bug me later on. :-)
I still can't wrap my head around the lack of flex in that arm/tool holder... @30:37; how that can come out as flat as it does is mind boggling to me. EDIT: watched part 2 first..... totally touched on this to a very satisfying degree in part 1 (after watching them backwards *facepalm*)... this channel rocks man..... I enjoy so much about these uploads.
It would be interesting if you put an indicator under the front of the casting to see how much it deflects under the cut.
When I was an apprentice, we made our own surface table. A local foundry would donate the raw castings for free. These had sat outside for 12momths, then rough machined, put outside for another 6 months. Then we got them, and hand scrapped them to final flatness. Regarding the reference to BMW F1 engines. These were 4 cyl, basically the engine block from the road cars. These would be built up as a normal road engine, then put into a company car. Then, after 6 months of use, they'd be stripped down and used for an F1 BMW engine. This cycle of pre F1 use would shake all the residual stresses out of the cyl block. Incidentally, was when F1 had turbos. Those engines saw flash readings of 1500hp on the dyno !!!
As always I love watching the shaper at work. These long cuts are incredible.
The close up on the return stroke finally triggered the light in my brain as to how the shaper doesn't make a mess out of the already machined surface. I think maybe the big stopover was what finally made it obvious that the tool is dragging over the next area to be cut and not the already cut surface. Great shot, Adam!
Why am I completely enthralled by watching this type of "entertainment"?
Maybe I have asbergers or I'm autistic? Its sooo soothing for me. Great angles of video too by the way. Keep up the cool trance-like videos brother!
SUB FO LIFE !
Love the passion for excelence, never perfect but always the best you can do without compromise. Well done Adam.
I love how much work you put into this part just for the joy of it and to learn new things.
The reason you have the significant warpt on the bottom side. Cast Iron usually under stress when cast so after you cut the top the grain structure relief thus resulting in a few thousands warp and it would multipied uver the length and also the width so.the milling machine may be only part of the problem.
Hey Adam, as you know you can vary the stroke of the shaper. Hyundai adapted that linkage to the valve linkage to vary the duration and lift of a cam!!!! Trick shizzle! I recognized the linkage and connected the two!
Interesting how the sound of the cast iron cutting is so much different than steel or aluminum.
I agree, the shaper is so quiet you can really get a sense for what the tool is doing in the work piece.
@BossmanEight Sounds a whole LOT like a well balanced hand wood plane on hardwood end grain!
Ken
Sounds like the TARDIS
Everything sounds the same. On a huwaie mobile phone speaker
@@Tangobaldy lol!
You should try turning the piece 90 degrees when you finish it to see if you can get a cool crosshatch pattern
I really appreciate those close shots of the movement during cutting, watched your videos for a while now and you have come a long way. Thanks for sharing your work.
I am so glad that you are a perfectionist Adam, as we benefit from seeing and learning more of how you work. Best Regards Sarah
Have you ever put an indicator on the end of the tool holder to see how much it actually springs while cutting? Just curious. I really enjoy your videos, keep it up!
Great video! From part 1 I was wondering about the stepover (when it actually happens). Your closeup camera work in part 2 gave me the answer: it happens during the entire back stroke, so that by the time the cutter gets all the way back, the whole stepover is complete. Well done!!
Man that is some beautiful work you do on the shaper! And the shots you get with it in action are just incredible, I love it👍🏼👍🏼
Such an elegant yet relentless machine.
Christmas wish list? a surface grinder of your own?
I love those shots where we are riding on the shaper and can get an excellent view of the cut like at 21:00. Thank you for the ride.
Another interesting POV is riding the workpiece. A little goes a long way when it's something in the lathe.
Its the level of detail that make the difference. Keep up the good work.
1:50 Your camera work is amazing here, when you move with the shaper it is just perfectly smooth, very enjoyable.
These machines are just amazing. They are as much of a piece of art as anything in a museum.
Very cool work. I really admire your commitment to precision, will done Adam!
The reason for the "not cutting in the middle" problem in your first finishing run is that the tool flexed back. Its not always the best idea to use the toolholder backwards to let the tool flex out of the workpeace. for finishing cuts the sturdiness of the setup isn't that important as keeping the geometry as stiff als possible. Greetings from Germany!
How is the fatherland with COVID hope to visit soon when this crap is over
I love watching the shaper in action! Such a beautiful machine!
Love the pattern the shaper leaves , over a mill it's the difference from a tie dye shirt and a pin stripe armonie suit.
Thank you Adam I always enjoy watching your videos I am from South Africa 🇿🇦
Man that finish is beautiful. Speechless...
My hats off to you and your Excellent camera work with the shaper at work...
Just an awesome job Adam!!! Just love watching the shaper do it's thing. So precision every single time. Great content Adam. 👌
Obsession with perfection can be a good thing!
Loved every minute of both videos excellent work thanks for sharing!
I love shapers they are so satisfying to use and the sound of the machines is awesomw
Well crap now I need a shaper.
There is something mesmerizing about watching machining.
I thought to myself when you got chatter milling that you should have did that whole piece in the shaper. And you did! Awesome! Thank you!
Adam, Learned a lot. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge.
When you love your job, like Adam does, it is a lot of fun doing it. And watching it too:)
I watched an old video before this one, probably about 3 years old and it wasn't until I did that I noticed exactly how much weight he has lost, well done Adam. Not sure if its something you are trying to do but you can definitely tell if you go back a few years.
One other source of going out of flat when you are machining, especially cast materials is that as the material cooled in the mold it induced stress. When you're machining you're removing that stressed material so the remaining material is moving to accommodate. The skin on a casting has th most stress built in. It's similar to weld shrinkage or pre-stress.
I noticed on the top side you were cutting only on the ends during your pre-finish passes and only in the middle on the bottom face. I assume the casting was not stress relieved... the "curvature" might be the stresses coming out during machining.
2:03 to 2:44 really shows the step over and the clapper working. Great shots!
While I've used fixture plates before, and they're very handy when you need to move the work piece from machine to machine or even from layout on the surface plate to machine, I never thought about the tolerances of the plate. If I scribed a line with a height gage on a piece I'd just turn the mounted piece 90 degrees to scribe an intersecting line, not thinking about how square, flat, or parallel the fixture was or how consistent each fixture plate was to each other. We'd have one guy drill the holes, take the fixture plate to another guy to mill the slots between a couple of holes, and finally a third guy would bore out a big hole. Maybe it worked because the tolerances were so loose on what I was working on, but the better the plates, the better the finished part. Thanks for your videos. They're very interesting.
Great outcome. Looks super. Thank you for sharing.
You may have locked-in stresses in your casting - I think your mysterious cutting problem is from machining off stressed material. Even gray cast iron will twist a bit if the metallurgy is off. It happens to a melt every now and then. Tramp nickel or something.
I suggest you ramp and hold stress relief to 1200F. Then cryogenic treat after to -100F, or near as you can manage without taking a second mortgage. You'll have to skim the broad surfaces again but that's no great chore if you sprayed it with No-Scale before heating.
Enjoyed watching the operation. I find it extremely cool that you are carrying on as a third generation machinist. Something that is becoming very rare.
next week on SNS314, reassembling a fireball fixture plate from a pile of chips.....
🤣
You just gotta love them shaping machines.... Fine piece of work bro !!!
Adam I truly love the Precision in your work and your dedication to making that shaper work . good job I know you can do it I love to watch it thank you for making big iron work I know your viewer probably doesn't understand that the shaper does a job like no other and does it very well thank for keeping a dying art alive .much love you loyal veiwer
Adam, all I can say is wow, where the heck where you back in the early 80 when I was in tool&die class. That would have been so useful back then. Man you bring back the days when.....Thanks
Thanks for the great videos Adam, looking forward to the next instalment 👏👏👏👍🇬🇧🍺
Adam, you are a machinist by trade, however, I think you should also be classified as a compassionate artist whom really is a master of two trades.
Great tools making tools awesome !! thanks Adam
OVERHEAD PICTURE OF ROUGH CUT CHIPS COVING COMPLETE TABLE IS INCREDIBLE!
Nice clean cut Adam. i loved what you end of on that plate
I would love to work as an apprentice in your shop with you. I've worked in a warehouse for the past 20ish years until recently thanks to covid. But even before I was laid off I had been talking about wanting to get in to machine work. I've been watching you, AvE, ToT and NY CNC for years and really enjoy being able to make things. Currently I've only been able to afford some 3d printers but absolutely fell in love with designing parts and being able to turn a design in fusion 360 into a physical object in my hands in a matter of hours. Moving from plastics to metal and the precision work that you do is my ultimate goal.
You’re not going to have much plate left after you get done lol! I’m just giving you a hard time, looks amazing and I could watch the shaper go all day anyways. Plus, it’s good to know someone has at least close to as bad of ocd as myself haha. Keep up the awesome work!
I thought the quality of your video-photography in this vid was particularly impressive. I'm not a machineist but the pure visual aspect of this was beautiful...
That camera work at the beginning was amazing.
Adam, This is going to be a sweet looking fixture plate excellent job thanks for sharing your video love watching the shaper.!.!.!.
Always dig the shaper bro, thanks!
First time seeing the automatic down feed in use. What a beautiful fixture table. Very jealous. Once you stone & debur she'll be slick as water. Then a whole lot of .75" holes. Are you making fixtures as well? The shaper noises are hypnotic. I could shave in the top surface!
Adam says, at 8:45, "I know you think I am crazy." No we don't !!! This is the essential Adam Booth. How in the world do you consistently cut to the accuracy you do? Third generation apprenticeship (growing up in the shop) coupled with an insane need to achieve perfection in your machine tools. With very nearly perfect tools, Adam is able to exhibit his Master Machinist Skills.
Great job Adam love to watch u work
Was this plate stress relieved after casting? May have caused the movement if it was not?
My OCD could not have left that un-machined dimple in surface! But that is my problem. Nice work my friend, I really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
I have a jos. Colladay 16” wood jointer made in 1903 with a shaper finished table and even after 117 years and living in unseated and terrible environments it’s flat and produces cuts that are perfect. A real testament to the quality of virgin cast iron, stress relieved cast iron and quality shaper work. And the lines are still visible and remind you of a bygone era.
Booth , one thing you can try is to use your finish tool at full width with your clearance grind, it made a world of difference on the boiler plate doors grandad worked, taking 1/2 th. Cut x2 with a 1/2 tool table adjustment between
Thank you for sharing love the shaper
Great video! Can't wait till you get the Smith & Mills up and running...love the shaper....
Daaamn what a finish.
Those some pretty chips. I love mechanical machines, fun to play on.
I love the finish a shaper gives
In the milling video I mentioned that I thought it should have support in the middle. I think that's why you see the middle differences. The lack of support in the middle caused deflection. Support in the middle would also give it three points of contact. Anyway It looks like the shaper corrected for those previous issues.
Great content. Love the channel!!!
😆 The struggles of a perfectionist. Fair play to you my man.
Hi Adam!
Good looking outcome, for SURE! One thought, would it alleviate some of the variations if you reduced the chips being dragged back over during the return stroke? Perhaps consider mounting EITHER a vacuum or blower to clear chips from surface in the return stroke. Just me "thinking" again.
Ken
Could you zip tie a paint brush to the shaper's tool holder to automatically sweep your chips while it cuts?
While the cutting pass(es) on a shaper may leave marks for each pass, those marks are so minute that you could never get the same surface from a milling machine without using a cutter head as wide as the work you're machining. Beautiful finish on the shaper, consistent, smooth & nicely tooled surface.
Abom79 making fragile spiral roll pins on the G&E shaper. I have the same problem with my Rambaudi mill at work plus I haven't been able to get the head trammed in vertical. I can't get the head to move in either direction. It's a good thing I don't have to work to the same level of precision you do. In other news, we acquired a little 618 Atlas lathe for making fixture pins. I'm in the process of repairing some small details, i.e. backlash, cross slide handle, tailstock clamp and lock.
You are pretty good with the closeup tracking shots!
I bet he's a good dancer too, but don't tell his friends! 👍😁
Two great videos - thx Adam :-)
Nice!! I wish I could touch it....:-) Great job
I think that your high spot in the middle of the milling could be flex of the workpiece between the vises that you used to hold it....they seem to produce a tiny amount of flex up or down depending on the workpiece and which way it can flex.
Adam, you mention ears on the ends. Good but if add ears (2) spaced out on sides, could mount side ways. Use three point bolt down. to let over hang. How ever needed, for larger parts that need to overhang and still need support. The plate becomes way to support that over hang.
Like the camera on the tool
Great camera work Spielburg.
You mentioned that you try and keep tips of calipers at the same level when measuring, be nice to have some little attachments for each tip that would locate in the same place every time and act like a stop,kinda like a gear tooth vernier.
I was concerned about the thickness that was going to be left. Lol. Reminds me of my very brief apprenticeship. Every thing we made was under-size trying to get that elusive finish. Emery paper and stones were a total
no-no!!
Two Questions:
-why not get the base plate cut out with the fireball waterjet? (i really want to see that thing in action on thick metal :D)
-will you ever show us the shaper doing something different then plain flat surfaces? something like a cross pattern with a V-shaped tool and high step-over.
something you can't easily do with the milling machine unless you buy an expensive mill for it.
"Parallel Lines", that' a great album.
Can remember when the top was 2in thick lol great job as usual
Good job man
Of course if you bolt a plate to it and it isn't flat it likely will bow your work here. I think I would have tried filling that void with silver solder, or just plain nickle welded it just so it wouldn't bug me later on. :-)
I still can't wrap my head around the lack of flex in that arm/tool holder... @30:37; how that can come out as flat as it does is mind boggling to me.
EDIT: watched part 2 first..... totally touched on this to a very satisfying degree in part 1 (after watching them backwards *facepalm*)... this channel rocks man..... I enjoy so much about these uploads.
You know, watching you work with your shaper makes me want to make a CNC shaper. I know, it's a little weird but I think I can do it.
I like your use of the Hero 8 external mic adapter and Rode VideoMic.
Super nice project.
Think its just a long piece and you needed to do a spring pass. The science of flatness is amazing!
We don't think you're crazy, we just know that you're a perfectionist...