I prefer the GX for the bigger rear differential. When you add a small lift and 35” tires the rear axle will handle the added weight better. The GX has a higher payload as well.
Great nuts and bolts review. If you need to tow then get the Lexus other than the Luxury plus model. The Overtrail has a lot more towing capacity as you highlighted (9096 lbs.) The eKDSS is pretty easy but if you need the max approach angle you can do it yourself in the Land Cruiser. The Overtrail is the off road enthusiast dream and uses the 33" all terrain tires on 18" rims. I vote Overtrail for me.
It is not quite correct to call this a "250 Series chassis", because it implies Toyota made this chassis specifically for the 250. This is the globalized TNGA-F platform that started life originally with the 300 Series, and now used for all of Toyota's modern body-on-frame trucks. So it is technically a 300 Series chassis. Cool video! I have a new Overtrail Plus, after waiting 10 months.
@@guentherwilke2055 Toyota is using the TNGA-F platform for ALL of their body-on-frame 4x4s, both midsized and fullsize. There is no more "Prado derivative" anymore, because there is no Prado platform. The previous generation Prado had a dedicated midsized platform that was also used for 2010 FJ Cruiser, 5th gen 4Runners and Lexus GX460. The current TNGA-F platform was developed for the 300 Series first, and now being used for this GX550 and every other body-on-frame vehicle. This is a 300 Series derivative. I was talking to a Toyota engineer and said I'm going to trade my GX550 to the LX700h, and he said. "Don't waste your money. They are pretty much identical under the body"
E-KDSS front bar location is the same as the GX460... it's fine, a frame cross-member is right there behind it. We've never hit ours offroading. Old KDSS was electronic, it had its own KDSS ECU and electronic actuators and logic program.
@@ALMX5DP Exactly my thoughts. I have never heard the old KDSS having actuators and ECU. Matter of fact KDSS are almost maintenance FREE. Great call. There are countless of animated videos on yt and none show the electronics ecu.
Interesting why they went with such a different location for the front swaybar. Would have thought they would design both systems to be positioned in the same space for packaging and such.
Probably because the kdss cylinders are too tall to go behind the the suspension and would be sitting right near the cats and Down pipe. The sway bar would also have to hang down low to clear the frame rails and still be able to move up and down
I test drove on road the LC 250 with 2 inch Toyota lift installed by dealer and 35’s and then test drive the Overtrail stock. The Overtrail ride quality was superior for daily driving purposes. Also the LC felt underpowered on the freeway. Overall the GX had better driving performance and experience on road.
Love these videos! I guess the only difference I can see with the e-KDSS to the LC disconnect, besides what you mentioned, is maybe the potential for on-road stability due to the larger bar size. The GX seemed to have a much thicker sway bar than the LC. Overall, I'm still more interested in the LC and wonder if the GX will be affected by the troubles the Tundra has been having.
Might be easier to add but you might need to think about the piston getting extended with a lift. I had a kdss 4runner and the only issue was wondering if I needed a spacer for the kdss hydraulic piston and opposing fixed point to compensate for the lift. I never heard an official word if it was needed but I could see that with a lift, the KDSS system would be extended because the body of the suv was sitting higher than without the lift, which might affect how much travel was left in the hydraulic piston. Not sure if it was necessary but there were spacers available.
Great video, Dan. Appreciate the detailed look at the differences w/ the LC. Do the non-overtrail models come without the KDSS? Looks like a great vehicle overall, but the modifications needed to make it a legit off roader seem too at odds with the electronically managed systems, imo. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of these on trails in 20 years, though, haha. In the meantime, looks great for mild trails and washboard dirt roads. Makes me really wish the LC came with this powertrain.
All non Overtrails have regular swaybars. I doubt modifications like lifts and tires will have any effect on the electronics. If that were the case then all the previous gen LX, GX and Land Cruiser owners would have been screwed.
Consumer Reports comparison video between the GX 550 and LC 250 showed that the GX 550 was significantly better than the LC 250 in high speed (Rally Style !!) off road driving over a very long and twisty course....it was night and day different with the driver having a lot of fun and enjoyment easily throwing the GX 550 through a series of high speed corners, while in the LC 250 he was really under pressure having to really work to control the vehicle while attempting to drive the LC 250 in a similar fashion. The tester was of the opinion that E KDSS was the main reason for the dramatically better performance by the GX 550. The 550 also handled much better on the road. Based on this test alone I would buy the GX 550 over the LC 250.
The light tyre might be because of the 4 ply layering compared to other all terrains. Would you recommend as a replacement tyre for the GX with a stronger wall?
smaller brakes are also because the hybrid has regenerative braking, which means, the motors exert a lot of stopping force too, so you don't need the physically large rotating unsprung mass.
I still think I'd take the lowest trim level GX. Still has passive dampers and no KDSS. The price is essentially the same as the mid grade LC but has the better engine/trans.
Not really to do with the EKDSS/KDSS/Disconnect you keep mentioning over and over. The front is heavier with the bigger engine so weight distribution is quite different.
@@jdesmo1 the battery is not large. It’s 1.87 kWh. This system is like 500 lbs total and I bet The battery itself is probably only 100 lbs of that. I have a lithium iron phosphate battery with a 2.2 kWh capacity that only weighs 45 lbs. the electric motor is right at the back of the engine. A 45 hp electric motor is very heavy. The wiring and control modules are all under the hood as well.
So it seems old Land Cruiser KDSS has best flex. So far E-KDSS seems like a let down according to GR sport reviews on-road. Perhaps less head toss off road but if less flex and more roll on road then does not seem like an upgrade. Perhaps the software needs more tuning.
I think the TNGA-F platform just has less wheel travel than the 200 series. My understanding was that frame rails were spread further apart which old means the control arms are shorter on the new truck
The new 250 is super impressive lots of big upgrades over the outgoing 200 series. Personally waiting for the turbo 4 hybrid model to be announced. The fuel economy and torque gains are hard to ignore.
Important to note that the cam adjust bolts in the LCA are also similar. Which means these will be plagued by the same widespread issue of corroding and seizing so much that alignments can't be performed. The LCA and/or bolts will need to be cut off. And sourcing replacement cam adjust bolts is nearly impossible due to a shortage from Japan. Lexus is also using the same tabs on the frame that the cam adjust bolts wedge against to hold alignment. This method hasn't changed in like 20+ years from Toyota and it's a huge weak point of the suspension. Many people will either weld reinforcements on or replace with other solutions. It's a shame Toyota and Lexus haven't addressed these issues in many decades.
Great information. The question is that, can Toyota or Lexus dealers be able to fix this KDSS because of any issue ? The problem with GX is that they added all the tech in a small body frame. This tech belongs to LX and the full-size LC300. And I still see that break clippers are small. These should be bigger due to the weight. honestly too much is going on with this , if customers want this vehicle to keep it longer they should avoid off roading . but another question comes , the price tag is too high for this small cabin big engine vehicle .. people must shop around somewhere else .
Crazy impressive suspension. I'm not touching anything with a V35A-FTS inside it until 2026, personally, though. That engine is shaping up to be one of the modern automotive industry disasters IMO.
@@snakehead5444 They're recalling every 2022 and 2023 Tundra right now that wasn't a hybrid. I believe there's well approaching 200 confirmed cases now of the main bearing failure just on forums. That's surely severely under reported, most people don't comment on forums. Moreover, Japanese made V35A-FTS have had this same exact main bearing failure, which contradicts Toyota's excuse (that it was debris in the manufacturing processs... no way that happened in both Alabama and Japan). And they haven't recalled the hybrids yet even though there's numerous main bearing failures reported for those too. 2024 Tundras are dropping from it too. Despite that being outside the recall window. This is shaping up to be a disaster. No way in hell I'd trust Toyota right now on this issue. They're not outright lie but they're clearly withholding information and releasing it only when legally required.
@@miraphycs7377 You can't right now and who knows that will be an option with the Overtrail trim. Also the reliability of that engine is also unproven.
@@miraphycs7377 You can't right now and who knows that will be an option with the Overtrail trim. Also the reliability of that engine is also unproven.
Exactly how many people are going rock crawling with their $70-80k Lexus? A parking space curb will be the only object that’s ever comes close to that e-KDSS AND it’s behind a skid plate.
Year 1 of ownership, probably not many will rock crawl. Year 2-5 probably a bit more. Year 5-10 likely quite a few will venture off the beaten path. Not dissimilar to any expensive new vehicle, whether offroad oriented, track oriented etc.
All Toyota V6 turbos are being recalled, their cars are stuck at port, that's why you can't get them, or very hard to, Toyota does not know how to fix their huge engine problems. The Tundras are self imploding. Toyota really messed up... keep your old V8 models. Plus the interior is also poorly made. The GX 460 is built like a tank, the GX 550 is a huge let down. dont buy!! wait
Dan, can you start showing the amount of bump stop engagement when the vehicle is on the ramp in future videos?
I prefer the GX for the bigger rear differential. When you add a small lift and 35” tires the rear axle will handle the added weight better. The GX has a higher payload as well.
Great nuts and bolts review. If you need to tow then get the Lexus other than the Luxury plus model. The Overtrail has a lot more towing capacity as you highlighted (9096 lbs.) The eKDSS is pretty easy but if you need the max approach angle you can do it yourself in the Land Cruiser. The Overtrail is the off road enthusiast dream and uses the 33" all terrain tires on 18" rims. I vote Overtrail for me.
fantastic testing! Man that's a beautiful vehicle.
Thanks Dan, I was wondering how the eKDSS controlled head toss so well. Genuinely shocked that the GX number was less than the Land Cruiser.
Well, the goal of this system is not only that, but to increase passenger comfort on rough roads
It's the LC's disconnectable sway bar that gives it more articulation, without it disconnected it's than a KDSS 4runner.
It is not quite correct to call this a "250 Series chassis", because it implies Toyota made this chassis specifically for the 250. This is the globalized TNGA-F platform that started life originally with the 300 Series, and now used for all of Toyota's modern body-on-frame trucks. So it is technically a 300 Series chassis.
Cool video! I have a new Overtrail Plus, after waiting 10 months.
The GX is a Prado derivative. The entire body shell is exactly the same. It wouldn't exist without the (now 250 series) Prado.
@@guentherwilke2055 Toyota is using the TNGA-F platform for ALL of their body-on-frame 4x4s, both midsized and fullsize. There is no more "Prado derivative" anymore, because there is no Prado platform. The previous generation Prado had a dedicated midsized platform that was also used for 2010 FJ Cruiser, 5th gen 4Runners and Lexus GX460. The current TNGA-F platform was developed for the 300 Series first, and now being used for this GX550 and every other body-on-frame vehicle. This is a 300 Series derivative. I was talking to a Toyota engineer and said I'm going to trade my GX550 to the LX700h, and he said. "Don't waste your money. They are pretty much identical under the body"
Great video. Good catch on the center bearing. I don’t think anyone else has commented on that. Love the comparison. Subscribed.
This is the test I was waiting for! THANK YOU DAN. Also, didn't expect that result but makes my incoming LC choice look even better.
E-KDSS front bar location is the same as the GX460... it's fine, a frame cross-member is right there behind it. We've never hit ours offroading. Old KDSS was electronic, it had its own KDSS ECU and electronic actuators and logic program.
Have you ever heard of any KDSS failures on any GX460?
What kind of electronic control did the old KDSS have? I thought the system was just hydraulic with maybe a simple electrical lockout feature.
@@ALMX5DP Exactly my thoughts. I have never heard the old KDSS having actuators and ECU. Matter of fact KDSS are almost maintenance FREE. Great call.
There are countless of animated videos on yt and none show the electronics ecu.
Interesting why they went with such a different location for the front swaybar. Would have thought they would design both systems to be positioned in the same space for packaging and such.
Probably because the kdss cylinders are too tall to go behind the the suspension and would be sitting right near the cats and Down pipe. The sway bar would also have to hang down low to clear the frame rails and still be able to move up and down
Superb display of information.
I test drove on road the LC 250 with 2 inch Toyota lift installed by dealer and 35’s and then test drive the Overtrail stock.
The Overtrail ride quality was superior for daily driving purposes. Also the LC felt underpowered on the freeway.
Overall the GX had better driving performance and experience on road.
But how about offroad comfort did you try on gravel road
@@BC-sr3gg no. Was only able to test at the dealerships
I love these reviews, but they are making me appreciate my 2019 200 series even more.
Same.
Probably because they are different levels of LC
i bet the land cruiser 300 sold in foreign markets is even beter than the 200 series
Don’t. Newer is always better.
@@carholic-sz3qv the LX 600 that he tested didn’t do any better than the 200 series LX 570
Love these videos! I guess the only difference I can see with the e-KDSS to the LC disconnect, besides what you mentioned, is maybe the potential for on-road stability due to the larger bar size. The GX seemed to have a much thicker sway bar than the LC. Overall, I'm still more interested in the LC and wonder if the GX will be affected by the troubles the Tundra has been having.
I was under the impression that the stabilizer disconnect only worked in the offroad modes like rock climb.
Hey Dan! Anyway we can get a flex test for the good ole’ GX 460? Would be great to see the difference in last gen vs new gen!
E-KDSS using an end-link instead of bolting directly to the control arm should make lifts easier since you just add a long link.
Might be easier to add but you might need to think about the piston getting extended with a lift. I had a kdss 4runner and the only issue was wondering if I needed a spacer for the kdss hydraulic piston and opposing fixed point to compensate for the lift. I never heard an official word if it was needed but I could see that with a lift, the KDSS system would be extended because the body of the suv was sitting higher than without the lift, which might affect how much travel was left in the hydraulic piston. Not sure if it was necessary but there were spacers available.
Great video, Dan. Appreciate the detailed look at the differences w/ the LC. Do the non-overtrail models come without the KDSS? Looks like a great vehicle overall, but the modifications needed to make it a legit off roader seem too at odds with the electronically managed systems, imo. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of these on trails in 20 years, though, haha. In the meantime, looks great for mild trails and washboard dirt roads. Makes me really wish the LC came with this powertrain.
All non Overtrails have regular swaybars.
I doubt modifications like lifts and tires will have any effect on the electronics. If that were the case then all the previous gen LX, GX and Land Cruiser owners would have been screwed.
Consumer Reports comparison video between the GX 550 and LC 250 showed that the GX 550 was significantly better than the LC 250 in high speed (Rally Style !!) off road driving over a very long and twisty course....it was night and day different with the driver having a lot of fun and enjoyment easily throwing the GX 550 through a series of high speed corners, while in the LC 250 he was really under pressure having to really work to control the vehicle while attempting to drive the LC 250 in a similar fashion. The tester was of the opinion that E KDSS was the main reason for the dramatically better performance by the GX 550. The 550 also handled much better on the road. Based on this test alone I would buy the GX 550 over the LC 250.
The light tyre might be because of the 4 ply layering compared to other all terrains. Would you recommend as a replacement tyre for the GX with a stronger wall?
Awesome content! Thank you.
smaller brakes are also because the hybrid has regenerative braking, which means, the motors exert a lot of stopping force too, so you don't need the physically large rotating unsprung mass.
I still think I'd take the lowest trim level GX. Still has passive dampers and no KDSS. The price is essentially the same as the mid grade LC but has the better engine/trans.
Excellent content as usual. Thanks!
When are you going to do a ramp test on the Colorado zr2 and Bison?
I do not recommend removing that piece, otherwise you'll affect the air dynamic and air noise will increase!
Ekdss does not go into action on its own for disconnect btw it is tied to drive modes and 4L
Brilliant breakdown Dan, love it! 👍
Not really to do with the EKDSS/KDSS/Disconnect you keep mentioning over and over. The front is heavier with the bigger engine so weight distribution is quite different.
I think the hybrid motor and associated electricals in the engine bay more than add up to the weight of the 3.4L in the GX
@@Jay-me7gw The large battery is under the rear of that car.
it is actually the plastic bumpers for better aerodynamics that are the problems.
What is the F:R weight distribution of this versus the LC?
@@jdesmo1 the battery is not large. It’s 1.87 kWh. This system is like 500 lbs total and I bet The battery itself is probably only 100 lbs of that. I have a lithium iron phosphate battery with a 2.2 kWh capacity that only weighs 45 lbs.
the electric motor is right at the back of the engine. A 45 hp electric motor is very heavy. The wiring and control modules are all under the hood as well.
I wonder how the LC300 would compare.
So it seems old Land Cruiser KDSS has best flex. So far E-KDSS seems like a let down according to GR sport reviews on-road. Perhaps less head toss off road but if less flex and more roll on road then does not seem like an upgrade. Perhaps the software needs more tuning.
I think the TNGA-F platform just has less wheel travel than the 200 series. My understanding was that frame rails were spread further apart which old means the control arms are shorter on the new truck
@@Jay-me7gw yeah your guess is as good as mine. Also I’d love to see the KDSS 4Runner on the ramp.
Great video as always Dan
Heritage addition might hold the high water mark for the foreseeable future.
so regrettably Dan cannot put a lc300gr on the test, it will be interesting to see the comparison between 2 gen top-spec "station wagon" land cruisers
The new 250 is super impressive lots of big upgrades over the outgoing 200 series.
Personally waiting for the turbo 4 hybrid model to be announced. The fuel economy and torque gains are hard to ignore.
The hybrid config has not been announced or confirmed if it will be the v6 or inline 4 setup yet.
Hi Dan, how would a gx460 fare ?
Great analysis!
Yes! Clearly the best new Toyota. Not even close.
The hood shakes at highway speeds and this engine has had main bearing failures in the Tundra resulting in a recall.
the worst made GX, but you enjoy!
Yes but is on road body roll better on the E-KDSS? That might what Lexus was thinking.
No doubt it would be. Did you spy the difference in sway thickness? The EKDSS system allows for a much more substantial bar.
There is no ekdss on the luxury or premium editions so very clearly not at all what they were thinking king about at all.
Cool truck. But I’m happy with my 200!
please test lc300
Great content!
Dan, no front yard video location? Neighbors get mad at you? 😊
Subscribed for awesome contents.
Kudos. REAL lug nuts instead of lug bolts!!!!!
Please do the Ineos Grenadier!
FYI, the Ineos gets a 585 RTI score.
@@8oliverraymond thanks! The downside of not having a disconnect-able sway bar.
LC 200 is the G.O.A.T
awsome content. LC 250 with a P-V8 would be a dream car.
Important to note that the cam adjust bolts in the LCA are also similar. Which means these will be plagued by the same widespread issue of corroding and seizing so much that alignments can't be performed. The LCA and/or bolts will need to be cut off. And sourcing replacement cam adjust bolts is nearly impossible due to a shortage from Japan. Lexus is also using the same tabs on the frame that the cam adjust bolts wedge against to hold alignment. This method hasn't changed in like 20+ years from Toyota and it's a huge weak point of the suspension. Many people will either weld reinforcements on or replace with other solutions. It's a shame Toyota and Lexus haven't addressed these issues in many decades.
Great information. The question is that, can Toyota or Lexus dealers be able to fix this KDSS because of any issue ?
The problem with GX is that they added all the tech in a small body frame. This tech belongs to LX and the full-size LC300.
And I still see that break clippers are small. These should be bigger due to the weight.
honestly too much is going on with this , if customers want this vehicle to keep it longer they should avoid off roading .
but another question comes , the price tag is too high for this small cabin big engine vehicle .. people must shop around somewhere else .
Nice reveiw but no one is buying the v6 twin turbo engine issues
what kind of a junky neighborhood is that the los angeles ghetto? with a luxury range lexus. amazing
Crazy impressive suspension. I'm not touching anything with a V35A-FTS inside it until 2026, personally, though. That engine is shaping up to be one of the modern automotive industry disasters IMO.
I mean a couple dozen had left over material in channels of the block and some had watergate issues the first few months. Anything new?
@@snakehead5444 They're recalling every 2022 and 2023 Tundra right now that wasn't a hybrid. I believe there's well approaching 200 confirmed cases now of the main bearing failure just on forums. That's surely severely under reported, most people don't comment on forums. Moreover, Japanese made V35A-FTS have had this same exact main bearing failure, which contradicts Toyota's excuse (that it was debris in the manufacturing processs... no way that happened in both Alabama and Japan). And they haven't recalled the hybrids yet even though there's numerous main bearing failures reported for those too.
2024 Tundras are dropping from it too. Despite that being outside the recall window.
This is shaping up to be a disaster. No way in hell I'd trust Toyota right now on this issue. They're not outright lie but they're clearly withholding information and releasing it only when legally required.
you can get it with the same hybrid turbo as land cruiser 250
@@miraphycs7377 You can't right now and who knows that will be an option with the Overtrail trim. Also the reliability of that engine is also unproven.
@@miraphycs7377 You can't right now and who knows that will be an option with the Overtrail trim. Also the reliability of that engine is also unproven.
Wow that’s good
It's vice versa not vysa-versa. Thank you Don Edmonds for these reviews!
24 Raptor R Suspension Test when?
This test made me laugh. It is so unscientific. A piece of sandpaper lol.
No mall, school, or Costco parking lot requires that kind of wheel articulation.
Exactly how many people are going rock crawling with their $70-80k Lexus? A parking space curb will be the only object that’s ever comes close to that e-KDSS AND it’s behind a skid plate.
Year 1 of ownership, probably not many will rock crawl. Year 2-5 probably a bit more. Year 5-10 likely quite a few will venture off the beaten path. Not dissimilar to any expensive new vehicle, whether offroad oriented, track oriented etc.
Bronco any day
My stock 4Runner does better than the Bronco with 35s.
This will last 200k more miles than any bronco
My LX450 thinks these are kinda cute. Wimpy, but cute.
At least these make some actual power. As cool as the 80 series are, that I6 struggles to just maintain speed.
Lemon engine
and a looming engine recall---yeah no thanks
Let's be honest most people who buy this will never go off road.
Emotional Support Vehicle
All Toyota V6 turbos are being recalled, their cars are stuck at port, that's why you can't get them, or very hard to, Toyota does not know how to fix their huge engine problems. The Tundras are self imploding. Toyota really messed up... keep your old V8 models. Plus the interior is also poorly made. The GX 460 is built like a tank, the GX 550 is a huge let down. dont buy!! wait
is it my turn yet????
24 Raptor R Suspension Test when?