Microsoft accidentally made a great Chromebook
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Now that the new Chromium version of the Microsoft Edge browser has a native ARM beta, Dieter Bohn gives the Surface Pro X another go. What happens when you use it like a "Chromebook," only using the Edge browser and web apps whenever possible? It ends up being a lot nicer than you might think!
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What do you think of the new Edge browser?
It works for me.
It's amazing
pretty good
Has pretty less stuff going for it to stand out from chrome , not much reasons to use it over chrome. Previous edge was much lighter, somewhat faster and cleaner
Firefox is still the best for me, versatile and reliable. Chrome for fast basic browsing and chromecasting. Why should I use edge?
Behold:
The edgebook
Surface Pro Edge
Zaafar Jat mmmm so edgy
It's a lean meme machine
Uaa dammit take my upvote
.. for edgelords.
3:40 “Microsoft is really good at managing windows.”
DAMN!!!
Meanwhile every 60 seconds in Africa a minute passes
@@kav12ab Together, we can stop this!
0:44 windows reflecting on windows.
Winception
I was going to tell that
You're welcome! 😎 -- Vjeran
Nice but I think those are spotlights
0:43 Damn! That reflection of window really looks good 🔥🔥
That was a clever idea to add, Windows..
Vjeran is was so excited to get that shot when we were doing the original review lol - Dieter
Windows OS
Diter just wants to run LIGHT ROOM
I REALLY DO - Dieter
i see that......use an ipad!
In a pinch you can use Lightroom on the web lol
@@TheVerge it's coming
@@TheVerge not the device for you then 🙄
I really enjoy when this dude is in the video
Best Reviewer Right
I think Dieter should be the face of the verge and not nilay.
"3:2 screen which is the best aspect ratio ..... _yes it is_ " 😄
Early thinkpad users all like:
@@wifal6874 I so want a 4:3 ThinkPad T60!! I have a Pixelbook but 3:2 is still slightly rectangular.
I think I agree with that aspect ratio.
Yes it is - Dieter
*3:2
-
The edge browser is light years better then chrome, it has all the features of chrome, plus more, as well as not using as much memory.
I'm finding the same. It's really nippy in speed and general use.
Perhaps I'm not a heavy tab-user, because I've noticed that Chrome with TH-cam, Twitter, and an article open uses less memory than other browsers like Firefox and Edge.
Edit: I should clarify that Chrome used less ram than other browsers with the same pages open.
Not running Lightroom is Adobe’s fault, not Microsoft’s. I love what they’re doing here.
They should have a huge sign on the the store page of the surface pro x saying “EXPERIMENTAL DOES NOT SUPPORT ALL WINDOWS APPS OR PROGRAMS”; if ads were honest imao.
@Rerin YL Any big company would put money on the game to make them popular.
it's a supply and demand market. There's no user base, hence Adobe hasn't needed to. A quick look at the iPad scene hints to Adobe's strategy on this (i.e. they are releasing a lot of stuff for iPad OS).
@Rerin YL The problem with Microsoft is 99% off their ecosystem is x86 and they only have "one device" running on arm. For anyone to recompile code for Microsoft they would need to give up x86 all over the OEMS. Difference between Apple and Microsoft, Apple controls their own hardware and software while Microsoft does not. Microsoft has way too many partners and licenses for OEM's on x86 to give all that up for arm native apps. Remember Microsoft does not control 90% of the hardware market just the software. What you speak of can be done with Apple because they are switching their desktop line over to arm. Apple created their own ISA system while Microsoft is still lagging behind. The whole Apple line will be ARM while Microsoft is not even close to being a hybrid. This is why Microsoft keeps failing at these attempts.
@@cr1m203 The problem with your logic is that there are 35 million apps/programs on Windows compared to 1.9 million on iPads. So millions more apps can't run on iPads compared to the SPX.
The fact that x86_64 emulation is in the works, windows on arm gonna stay around for a little while longer
Alur You know, MSFT has a bad reputation of abrupt cancellation.
@@bonaquack way less than google though.
But why can't developers recompile their apps for ARM?
@@nakdickson it will take year's for apps like Photoshop and nobody wants to invest money on platform which have low user base.
@@nakdickson it does not always work for most legacy apps written in low level languages
The Verge has a wide variety of audiences. Adobe Lightroom is not Used by everyone. This machine is LTE compatible and the price is similar to other LTE available Windows laptop. In My humble opinion the Verge should start reviewing devices for different types of people with different type of use case.
Couldn't agree more. It's even cheaper than a similarly speced IPad Pro. Which is limited too. But popular.
Alex McCaffrey this is so much more limited than an iPad Pro though. The iPad has access to over 80 million free apps and millions more of premium paid apps. On top of that it has better specs
Its not just lightroom. Its every app that is 64bit
@@milkaaymk That's why I stated that Lightroom is not used by everyone. If you knew what I meant.
Yep my surface pro x is more useful than my iPad Pro for college. Full blown browser, lockdown browser program for exams and quizzes, complete Microsoft work office, etc. My iPad Pro has notability, mobile version of Microsoft office, etc.
Wasn't this the intended use case in the first place?
Exactly, I don't get why every review of ACPC boils down to "It doesn't run photoshop, and look how slow chrome runs"
EXACTLY, you don't buy this computer for running photoshop or lightroom, god
Exactly. All these reviews of the Surface Pro X are completely missing the point...sorry Dieter, but you're a bit late.
@@thelookofdisapproval8234 thats because of the price point of Surface Pro X which is comparable to full-fledge laptop.
sloppy Joe Yes, it was, either a secondary device for those that can afford it, or for certain workflows that do not include gaming or intense creative apps. It is much like an iPad or Chromebook, all have certain restrictions, but if they are not an issue then these devices will work well. Just hope MS does not give up on it due to poor sales , eBay selling at 40% off after a few weeks second-hand with users ill-informed and not what they expected. With Windows X coming, WOA may be thrown aside like its predecessors especially if the hype of Window X is matched in reality?
So true about the aspect ratio.
HOWEVER... Most people don’t use light room. I have one of these because I mostly use Office and Office is compiles for ARM and that’s great.
A lot of people buy tablets specifically for Lightroom though.
Freddy Ummmmmmm....
Behrang Saeedzadeh Maybe, but don’t forget if you’re a corporate which exists on Office 365, that is pretty much everything you’ll ever do other than web apps. Sure, if you’re a creative professional that’s different - but real power hungry pros aren’t looking at a $1000-1500 machine, they want 32GB of RAM etc (it’s not that long since The Verge and others were saying the MacBook Pro wasn’t “pro” because it was limited to 16GB...)
@@freddybell8328 they then have a wealth of choice.
@Behrang Saeedzadeh nope. It runs everything I use on a laptop well.
Microsoft: sees video
*“Announcing, the Edgebook!”*
The whole video in a nutshell: I love you as a friend!
Mansoor Ahmad the surface x is a great product, but Apple does better, limited, useless, but better
you been chromezoned
Who cares about lightroom? The pro x runs every program I need
but that makes you wonder whatever other apps it can run smoothly or cannot...it's a bit a of high-risk strategy for that money.
Finally a new video with Diter!
Well let's be real he makes the best TH-cam videos for The Verge!
idk I love Becca's videos
@@Marrow1ne I like them too but she's reviewing more cameras and I'm more in phones and computers.
So people will recommend an iPad pro with pencil and keyboard which runs upward of $1700 and that clearly doesn't do as much as the pro x but somehow this is not worth the money every though it works just as well and in most cases better than the Ipad. Hmmm.
u can play pubg lol
If you use a iPad for some time you will understand why people love it.
@@HerreDePerre iPads are big iPhones, nothing more nothing else. This why there market share has dropped from 80% to 34% over the past decade...
Get this man Lightroom on ARM
Dieter are you feeling ok?
When Microsoft pays you after your review...
I don't know why every Windows on ARM review turns into
"It doesn't run photoshop, and look how slow chrome runs"
I get it that the technology isn't ready yet, but the concept is tempting. and what's interesting is what it could become
... because people aren't buying it in 2 or 5 years when all the kinks are matted out, they're looking to buy it *now*. All those concessions make sense if these were all prototypes but they're made, priced and sold as competition to current solutions.
As a reviewer, it makes sense to then compare it to those current solutions, especially when talking about different use cases. It wouldn't make sense to ignore those use cases because of what the tech could be given enough time
I agree, plus 80 percent of people aren't doing photo and video editing. That's a niche market in itself.
The Look Of Disapproval cough iPad cough
Me neither. It is ready though. And to be fair this isn't what this review turned into.
It’s the bad old chicken-and-egg problem: vendors won’t port their proprietary software to the new platform, because they don’t see customers demanding it. And customers won’t buy it, because the proprietary software isn’t available for it.
Ironically, the Linux stack (WSL) offers a full suite of 64-bit native apps. So a machine built specifically by Microsoft to run Windows, ends up demonstrating why Linux is such a superior OS.
Unfair comparison. Your Chromebook can't play Counterstrike or DOTA or World of Warcraft. Or Photoshop or Illustrator. Or a competent Office suite. etc, etc, etc.
I can't honestly take this guy seriously.
Wtf does, "it takes too long to get started on Windows". What's a laptop to this guy? an everyday occurrence? The vast majority of people use a laptop for way more than a year, how bad could 10mim-20min be as opposed to 1min on a chrome book.
Plus I feel like you can get on windows within a min or so while disabling all privacy and data requests.
o and lightroom, such a useful app for the demographic of an ARM based notebook sized laptop/tablet.
Provisioning (that's the name of setting up devices for first use) is a pain. Especially on Windows 10 given you have to do this every 6 months due to "Windows-as-a-service" upgrades which are pretty much a reinstall-like wizard. Do you know how many times you have to set up a Chromebook or a tablet after an upgrade? None: they upgrade seamlessly. You do it the one time you buy it or factory reset it, then all it does is redex (recompile dynamic files)
And the real problems with W10 provisioning are related to privacy and cloud accounts being WAY too obscure. Every single one of Windows's updates gets you a different flow, with one more setting to opt out from (or a harder time doing it) and new tricks to force you into logging with a Microsoft account vs Local. Granted, Google also nags you with cloud accounts but at least on those ecosystems (Android OR Chrome OS) there are clear benefits and everybody already does it. I am yet to find a super-duper important reason to use an MS account - even bitlocker cloud key storage or the freemium apps on their store aren't worth it (thank god). There aren't "killer features" for me. Then again, I don't use these devices in a corporate environment nor depend heavily on OneDrive.
@@cldpt when did your windows 10 reinstall itself due to an update, that has never happened to me and I had win10 on release.
As for the rest they are of no importance to me but I can see your point.
**. Microsoft putting heart and soul into making chromebook. **
*The verge* - It's accident
*Microsoft* - Am I joke to you?
Yes Microsoft is a joke. The only thing they got half right is the Xbox.
I think ede browser is going to kill safari's and Firefox's market share
because my computer runs with i3 processor edge is the only fastest browser in my computer
sathya moorthy Does Safari have any market share on Windows market?
@@DenizBoz Bwhahahahha
I never go for anything other than Firefox unless I’m using my iPad or iPhone and that too because Safari is always there in the quick access bar
Deniz Boz ironically, since there used to be a Safari for Windows, you can still technically run it and there is likely at least 1 person out there who does.
Yes, just like Visual Studio Code
Awwww yeah 6 minutes in the Bohn Zone
I remember from while ago there were some laptops for education that have Qualcomm 7c processor and a really low price tag so this video kind of made sense for any of upcoming Windows on ARM devices, especially the "mid-range" ones (if they perform well) with 7c/8c in them. They could be a really nice devices for some web browsing, Spotify, maybe even Netflix for some bedroom binging.
ChromeOS is still crappier than Android. Companies need to concentrate on bringing the Android OS to laptops. There are already versions like Android x86 and Phoenix OS but they are not perfect.
A Surface Go X at 600-800 would be killer. I've been wanting a good tablet with 4G that isn't an iPad for a while.
Microsoft:
hmm let's scrap this thing and make a new quick and call it "The Surface Edge"
Edge is finally my most favorite browser and I can't believe I am saying this.
I appreciate the honesty in this video. I agree, the Pro X is too expensive and it's not clear who it was made for. Just give me the Surface Book 2 screen as a stand alone product and I'm happy.
My main interest in this device is the 4G LTE option since I’m more often than not in areas without easily accessible WiFi, but almost all the reviews I’ve seen mention the price not being worth it. What are some better priced devices that would allow me to continue working from remote locations?
There are not =)
If you could run android apps then I would totally buy this
How come every time he says "you shouldn't buy this computer" I think..."I want this computer"
It's the magic of human irrationality.
2020 and we still consider a DRAWBACK to take a few minutes to log into some Cortana tutorial set-up thing? Oh, k.
Who even uses Cortana
Proof that even the worst windows laptop is better than a chrome book. 😂
Nope and Nope
This is good but honestly the increasing hegemony of Chromium is terrifying. It's open source on paper but Google basically has full control over the whole thing and that really does not bode well, monopoly-wise.
It is exactly because of people saying it doesn't even run programs that we can't really move forward and companies like Intel still exist. The problem is just so we can keep the customers happy we have to provide "backwards" compatibility, that's only possible with architectures that make it possible(read bad engineering). Some amount of sacrifice is required for better experiences in the future. This is the sacrifice.
Just look at the hardware. this is not too expensive. Apple would sell this with 40% higher price. The review is a good idea, but can you tech journalists once praise Microsoft without distancing yourselves immediately?
Other thing I wanted to mention: The absolute majority of users either does not do videoediting, or has already a powerful machine for this kind of jobs. Being able to do video editing should be an extra stretch for a device to get 11 out of 10 points, but it is treate as if it is a necessity or 3 points.
I am getting a Surface Pro X tomorrow...being an Android and heavy Google Services user, how well does Edge For Android integrate with my Android Phone? I wanted to load Chrome on this but afraid of battery drain.
Always love your review. It is always spot on. Surface Pro X has been one of my favorite device and exactly like you said I treated it similar to Chromebook. Run mostly my app in the Edge browser, pin it as PWA app and all work great. Now fast forward to 2021, with Windows 11, where 64 bit app natively supported as well, it makes this device much useable too.
Thank you SO MUCH for the Chrometana Tip!!!
Clearly you aren't very smart if you are listening to this clown. Can a chromebook run statistical or engineering software? Trying thinking for yourself...
Please stop using apps you leverage as a blogger the bellwether of what everyone else needs to look for in a device. Most users haven't even heard of Lightroom.
Lightroom and Photoshop have been Native on Windows on ARM since 2021.
Now they are selling an upgraded cpu, sq-2 i think its called. Please review. Ty
Surface pro X
Chromebook O
Wow.. I've owned 3 MS surface products.. go, laptop and pro. Shall I consider to buy this again?
$1700 for a glorified chromebook?!?
This makes the Macbook Air seem like the bargain of the century.
squigglewacks the 2012 Macbook Air is still supported. Gotta give them credit for that.
Are you really buying this to run light room...? Honestly seems like the lower end of an average users concerns, unless we are all content creators out here.
Watching this on my Surface X, because YOU ARE NOT MY DAD DIETER!
3:21 You pasted a Verge logo over the Google logo?!
Chrome book: mobile phone in a laptop
Surface go/pro: laptop in a tablet
Fingers still crossed for an ARM powered Surface Go sequel.
it feels like if this had run Lightroom properly, Dieter would have recommended it.
Edge browser, We track you better than Google chrome.
I'd love a smaller, Surface Go-sized version of this.
I agree. I love my surface go, but this would be a desired upgrade.
0:44 what a shot ❤️
Omg just get an iPad
MS could've succeeded from collaboration with Nokia only if they had actually focused on expanding the ARM ecosystem.
Rene called, he wants his intro back 😋
1:42 that lag
if you drag the window to the side it will happen
through my experience with windows 10
that's not lag because it still respond fast
he somehow turn off the animation of windows 10
Might be a slowmo shot
you must be really looking for that lag. like REALLY
4:14
Do people really complain about set up the computer the first time they use it -_-
Not me
How about you go and get a real job instead
I really hope the next generation surface go lands with an arm option.....light, always connected, great for productivity and affordable.
What I learned from this video: Chrometana.
I don't want don't endorse the Google monoply. Even though Chromium is controlled a bit by Google I still won't give Google my search results. Bing and Microsoft Points all the way!
Name a better duo than a 3:2 screen and a laptop portability
Honestly, with how Google has handled Chrome OS recently, plus some of the larger issues with the direction of Chrome as a browser in general, I think Windows on ARM as an alternative solution to Chrome OS has plenty of merit.
If Microsoft can sort out the emulation side of things (AMD64 emulation should help a lot), and the price of the hardware can come down to reasonable levels for larger mainstream adoption, I can see app developers getting on board with the idea and every app that adds native support for ARM will only make the proposition more appealing for the average user of a laptop or tablet who just needs to do a bit of web browsing or document editing and not things like high end gaming or 4K video editing.
People can get the familiarity and flexibility of Windows with the portability and endurance of a typical ARM tablet - assuming all the stars line up. I'd personally much prefer to use that as a second device over something as locked down as an iPad, though I know I'm hardly in the majority.
You can have your opinion but now I think pixelbook is better option than surface Pro X.
The shot at 0:44 has a windows reflecting on windows
well, contrary to your advise, i purchased this device at a 600 discount. and i love it! i don;t do video or picture editing and work is just great! especially the T-Mobile sim with unlimited data for like $20 a month!
WHAT! From where did you get it? Who sell it for that price?
@@mobbak 450 discount and I also had a credit of 200. I think it's still at 3 or 400 discount for the 8ram and 256 HD on the Microsoft store
Chrome as a browser isn't the best
Microsoft needs to make Windows 10 ARM that has native ARM compatibility. Once Windows goes ARM, the laptop/desktop industry can finally move on to ARM chips and get rid of the awful x86 monopoly.
I still blame developers just treating Windows like the old dog that you throw scraps to... DESPITE trying like mad to make new things for them to use 🙄
tries ~Chrome~ Edge 2.0*
This laptop is great!
Does anyone else notice that he's also watching Jeffree Star?
First you need a table
Yes. It’s ahead of its time. Finally, you headed to the right direction with web services for all thin client devices like the ARM-based. It’s really for the upcoming subscription-based DaaS markets, and currently the best you can have for Cloud DaaS/ VDI for business.
using the windows key to search google
bing: master microsoft i don't feel so good.......
Not the forum to say this ------------ but the narrator is soo handsome and smart :)
I’d definitely say Chrome OS has been doing window management for a few years now, there are keyboard shortcuts the ability to drag the window to the side and even clicking the toggle full screen button in the top right and dragging left or right. Chrome books can also now make calls from your laptop using an android device and have been able to view and send messages for a while.
This is a great video and can’t wait to see Microsoft’s Chromium based Edge browser get better and raise the bar
Surface Pro X would be a great device for just $600 (including the keyboard and pen). A _real_ Google version of this the "Lenovo Duet 5 Chromebook" which is a 12" Detachable ARM Tablet jus like the Pro X, only costs $400 in total with all the accessories included.
Microsoft Edge: Install site as Web Apps feature works like a charm on Mac OS too!
Chromebook by Definition should be: A horrible machine worth nothing and only runs Google Chrome and Google's other apps. THIS IS NOT A CHROMEBOOK. It is a COMPUTER.
0:43 is that a glare or windows logo?
Is Windows on ARM a good idea? Absolutely! Will Microsoft Office, the Adobe apps and so on be recompiled for ARM anytime soon? Well how long have they had already? This isn’t exactly bleeding edge. I think APPL will kill MSFT when it comes to ARM on a variety of systems currently dominated by Intel.
Why the limit of Surface Pro X comparison as a Surface Pro 7 would fit the bill better? And agree it's more a niche product then a full laptop.
As my Surface Pro 6 can be had at half the price without all the limitations mentioned.
As the custom ARM SQ-1 is still to limiting. Waiting and more exciting to see a Surface Pro 8 with new Ryzen 4000 Apu laptop chip inside.
You can make web apps with the google chrome browser..... Microsoft hasn't done anything special to the Chromium browser except reskin it. The only appeal for a MS tablet would be the ability to to run .exe programmes. This video should have been titled Microsofts Chrome based browser can do what Google chrome can do.
Pixel chrome book cost 999$ and surface pro x cost 899 $ for base model, do you need all horsepower of a 1700$ worth configuration to run web apps? That goes the price issue. in addition surface prod x provide windows app and decent touch tablet as you agree, so what is “app problem” you complain about?
Its incredibly misleading to simply say that the configuration that you have cost 1700 USD without mentioning that you fully specked your device. It starts at the same price of a Ipad pro with double the storage . To call it a chromebook is as silly as calling an ipad a chromebook... Its an arm device and you should treat it as one. Sure you can, if you really want, use full x86 programs once in a while but if you buy this its for people that live in their browser, use office and arm optimised apps. Meaning the great majority of office workers. I understand that you are sad that out of the box the adobe package is yet to be recompiled for arm (which is comming) but its silly to call this device a chromebook just because of that, since it can do so much more than a chromebook as you mentioned.
Why buy anything to run Windows on when you could have the fastest processor, largest available ram in the universe, and every time you update, your CPU is 100% usage? Thank God we have other OS's to use.
Again not sure why Microsoft even went down this route. its basically the RT which failed horribly..for the same reason this will fail.
People aren't gonna be sold on a Windows device that will be basically limited to running web apps performantly.
Accidentally??
All Surface tablets have one big issue. It sits so low your head has to look down quite a bit. Very bad ergonomics for your neck. Just look at how low he looks down.
The top of the screen should be at or near your eye level. That's basic ergonomics since 1990s
x86 chromebook is better because you can easily run many windows apps through wine or something similar. An arm windows tablet at $1800 ill stay really really clear of that thanks.
Nice video, I like how you were able to squeeze more functionality out of a Windows arm tablet. Which, you know, wasn't the case before.
I hate my Surface RT... :(
Idk abt the us, but you can get a surface pro x bundle with the keyboard and pen at costco for 1,300$ CAD(abt 984$ in the US)
Chromebook - except you can’t use Google Drive. Or at least you couldn’t when I tested this about six weeks ago. Made it unusable for me.
I'd rather have Cortana ask what are me privacy settings preferences -- than have Google not ask.