How to Argue with a Narcissist and WIN!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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It's normal to feel crazy when you're arguing with a narcissist. The gaslighting, the invalidation, the lies and accusations. So what are we supposed to do?
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After years I got him to go to a therapist with me. He did get me to go off in a rage at the session. The therapist said "I see. She's allergic to your lies." I wish there were more therapists like that.
The therapist we had took his side one day! I gave HER a piece of my mind! She apologized! The wrong therapist can be more harmful than good!
Avoid them at all costs. When you have to deal with them, become a gray rock; boring, unbothered and non-reactive. It’s hard as hell, but the peace is worth it.
😂😂
What are you laughing about?
@@Mplsgurl "become a gray rock" 😂🫶
Grey rocking is a term they use when you have to distance yourself emotionally from the narcissist when you can't physically leave them. I also don't understand why you're laughing at her. This isn't really a funny topic...
My narcissist calls me boring all the time! Does that mean that I'm doing it right? I hope so. I try my hardest not to engage but it's extremely difficult at times.
Anything I bring up to have an "adult" conversation with my husband is automatically brought back to be my fault. Him being on fetish websites asking for nudes....my fault. Him lying ...my fault. Him having women's phone numbers saved in his phone....my fault. Counting down the days to divorce, freedom, and getting my sanity back.
Save the documents, the texts, if your in a one-party consent state then covert record conversations or even phone calls and have arguments on phone calls…many things to keep documents for the divorce to get everything and kids.
This is my life. 😢
Yeah, they will even justify putting hands on you. They won’t stop until you’ve completely lost your mind so the best course of action is just to walk away with your dignity intact.
Do not share an attorney. Change your passwords, change your bank accounts. Inform credit card companies and close or separate them. lock your credit and inform the agencies, change the locks, lock your social media down, separate the phones, inform your loved ones. The narc will try to stir up drama with your family and friends. They will try to use your data to create debt. They will stop paying debts that they agreed to. Refinance your car into your name only. Contact all your insurance providers.
😮❤❤ Sending you my best. I ghosted my ex. I had planned to leave a year before I was actually able to. I didn't tell him anything. He was just that juvenile. He knew that something was up, and he never said anything. He told me that after I left and met up with him to get my mail one last time. So my relationship was a lie. I can't forgive that yet. I moved everything I had out of that apartment asap. I didn't have much. There was nothing to tie me to him. As of this month, he's dead to me. Happy birthday to him 😂😂
The only winning move against a narcissist is to not play.
Bingo 🎯
@@LeahIsHereNow yep, without drama they die.
That's true. But then, what happens to the target's brain, having to stuff all emotion and natural reaction? Doing this allows them to continue their abuse without even a mention of their bad behavior by their target. You can't win for losing..
@@cookiemama4 The bigger problem is living life with different personalities, one with the narcissist and other with everyone else.
@@cookiemama4not having to stuff all of that away, but realizing none of what they’re saying matters because it’s all part of their plan. They make things up intentionally to get a reaction out of you, that’s their whole goal. Once you realize that you realize none of what they say matters. I say this as someone who went through the same thing years ago. One day it all clicked for me and I thought exactly what he said in the video, there is no winning because it’s all rigged. None of it matters. It’s like a mean child calling you names for no reason. Do we let it get to us? No, because once we realize they’re a child simply trying to get a rise out of us and will say absolutely anything to see you worked up. Once we give them that power we’ve already lost. Doesn’t matter what you say to them or how you say it. Even if you have proof of what they’re saying to be wrong it does. Not. Matter. Even if you’re right, you’re actually wrong. In their eyes you will ALWAYS be wrong. What’s the point in wasting our energy in life away? That’s like trying to convince somebody the sky is blue but no matter what you say you’re wrong
The problem is that the second you decide not to engage anymore and uphold your boundaries, because you deserve better than someone who refuses to take accountability and invalidates you, they'll suddenly validate everything you've ever said and take accountability for everything they've ever done and they'll tell you you're right, they've been taking advantage of your kindness and now they can see how much they've hurt you and they're committed to making it right.
They're experts at contrition when it serves them, and because this is someone who means a lot to you, it's nearly impossible not to believe them because you WANT to believe them. So you agree to stay, and you give them stipulations to safeguard your well-being, and you set conditions they have to meet to prove they're committed to changing. Of course they promise to do everything you say and they're the perfect picture of remorse.
You'll stay hypervigilant to any signs of their old behavior coming back for a long while, but that gets exhausting for anyone to keep up long term and they always make sure they don't falter so you start to feel safe again. They know you won't be able to maintain your carefully guarded boundaries forever, so they'll wait you out by consistently showing up like a normal person until you finally believe they really have changed... And that's when they know they've got you and it all starts to creep back in again. And round and round you go!
Absolutely spot on and so so so so so so true. Could not have said this any better.
@@MiaK06 E X A C T L Y.
So sooooooo spot on.
God, I am so tired of reading all of our comments about dealing with such behaviors. Like I wish they could heal or that we never dealt with them in the first place!!!
It’s heartbreaking really to see so many people falling for their painful games
@@ceciliamac4283 I know. But sadly they exist. Not sure what your story is - in my case it was a deeply narc mother which unfort left its marks
As to my adult narc - truthfully, I kind of blame myself as I ignored the warning signs
Live and learn…
I'm screenshoting this for future "hoovers" this is EXACTLY my narc!!! Crazy making!! I filed for divorce 2 weeks ago I just cannot continue on
My future EXhusband will never ever try to get me back. I treat him politely. A divorce mediation is in our future, I finally decided I don’t need the aggravation of being married to him anymore.
I waited many years for my turn. I tried being assertive, communicative, silent, all the things. Only when I realized that I was being baited and I stopped taking the bait, that I took back control over myself. I detached and stayed aloof. I wondered how long I could play that game and stay sane and likely would have stayed in that inauthentic relationship. Luckily, he found a new supply and divorced me. It was the greatest gift.
damn lucky girl
Wow
Me too! 🙌🏼
Good for you Wendy! Live a successful life. ❤
Right?! I've been baited for years and now I've been stepping back to change that and growing better as a person
Good job girl, happy for 👏 you.
“They act like they are trying to make you better by constantly criticizing you”
Yup. 😑
Oh I understand, for examples; because he cares, or because he is trying to help you, (but you didn’t ask for suggestions or his input )
I can go on and on.
@@sunflower6434 exactly! He Acts like he cares but he doesn’t. It was just an act. And that was one of the most obnoxious thing he would do 🤢
He would repeat constantly how I should change this or that because it would be better for me, etc. He even told me one day (right after telling me something positive about my work): did you put a perfume today? I said no. Why? He said: you already have a body odor so it doesn’t smell good on you whatever you put. I told him I didn’t change anything… he said: hum, I smell something not great. I was uncomfortable. I was meeting one of my girlfriends afterwards and when I asked her to smell me she said you smell like sweetness as usual. What an a**hole for saying that to you. He doesn’t deserve you.
When I told him few days later. He said: I told you that? Are you sure? I don’t remember. Wow I’m such a d-bag. Like he can do that: act like he knows that he is mean and he says it out loud (like he is self-deprecating) at the same time tries to create confusion as to wether he said that or not. 🥱
All this to say that the worst part is when the devaluation comes right after a compliment. It’s so contradictory and catches you off guard. I never know what to respond
This, this is it, 😢 🤦🏼♀️
That's the grandiosity. They need to believe they're superior so the constant criticism creates the illusion that they are superior. They're just duping themselves in the end.
That's soooo true
Co-parenting with a narc is an impossible situation. Keep a lawyer on retainer, stick to the facts, don’t be emotional, document everything, focus only on the kids, hold them accountable through lawyers. Keep a calendar and know when your kids turn 18 this prison sentence is OVER.
Don't rest too easy. Keep vigilant. Don't reveal too much, keep your cards close. My kids are in their 20's and my ex still has a way of trying to get to me.
When the children become adults it is a different kind of hell. Triangulation escalates to a devastating level. Keep your side of the street clean at all times. It never ends.
Its a different Thing when you are a man. I gave Up for now tbo. I went to Youth Welfare Office but they dont Care that she ignores or doesnt show Up or opens the door for my visitation of my kid. Went to the court and they told me to come back after 1 to 2 years with everything documented. But that stuff is exhausting in a way i cant sleep properly and am just miserabel.
Maybe If my son is older and i can directly contact him to see each other it will work but by that time i havent seen him in so long that He wont recognice me anymore.
I guess i Just pay and bend over to that rigged system.
@Joksa999 I feel you! I'm a grandmother of 2 and my heart bleeds for them. But do get a notebook and write things down. Not only is it good for court, but it's also proof for when the children get older. E.g.: Again, today I was robbed of seeing my kids. (Then write down what you planned to do that visitation with them) E.g.: I wanted to BBQ, go swimming, decorate for holiday, hiking, camping, etc. And as hard as it is, don't bash the mom! They get that from her about you or causes your children inner conflict. I'm going thru this with my grandkids. One day they will know how deeply you love them...regardless of what she says or does. Plus the courts will see not only the infractions, but that you are capable of being a wholesome devoted parent.
I learned this the hard way and I’m broke! My youngest is 16 and the countdown to 18 is on lol
"The only way to win with a narcissist is not to engage." Words of infinite wisdom 💯 If you are forced to engage with a narcissist, please remember nothing they say really matters. Don't let them trigger or guild-trip you. If you expect anything human from them, you'll lose each time.
Thanks for the video. Describing my marriage. There’s only one thing you are wrong.: “ emotional abuse is as bad as physical abuse”- As far as I am concerned, emotional abuse is worse. No one sees your bruises not even yourself no one believes you in the first it took me 10 weeks of hospitalisation because of severe depression and loss of identity after aging years with a narcissistic psychopath. Seven years later I am listening to this video and it still hurts, the wounds and scars will never disappear and up to today. I was never able to trust someone again.
A few days ago I fell for an argument again. The moment I realised, this is again leading nowhere but me raging in the end that he doesn't understand the obvious logic, I stopped with a smile on my face and an "aha.". The confusion on his face was so worth it! 🖤
“A boundary is for us … it requires nothing from the other person.” 🤯🙇🏽♀️🙏🏽
❤🎉❤🎉 💯 🎉❤🎉❤🎉
You can't torture a narcissist. They live in their own torture.
Ohoho, _bet._
I can tell my mom 'I hate what she did to me' until I'm blue-in-the-face.
And, I will.
She lost her right to a relationship with me _years_ ago.
And those bottled-up emotions she kept me from processing? Those get expressed, one way or another.
@@E4439Qv5 Divorcing myself from my parents was a phenomenally positive step for me. When I realized that I was trying to win the war of my childhood on a different battlefield, my marriage, I realized that although in many ways different my husband (now ex) had a host of similar traits to my parents. I chose to marry "my parents" because I had no good role models to discuss with me the red flag moments. I am happy for you that you chose to allow your mom to lose a relationship with you. Good on you!!
@@richardbensinger6922 ouhhh LOVE THIS SO VERY MUCH. I’ll keep that close to my mind 🤍
You can torture a narcissist. Just never aknowledge them and pretend like they don't even exist and just do everything opposite of what they want you to do. They hate it so much because they are not getting their supply or admiration when you completly ignore them and when you do the exact opposite of what they want from you it shows them that they have no power and control over you. 😁 I did it with my ex narc flatmate (flatenemy) and it worked. He got so frustrated that he ended up going to a clinic and moved out. The day he left I threw a massive house party🎉 These empty things are Demons in human form.
@@trentbacker9562 Bravo !! 👌🏼
This man is so right on! A little happiness for all of you putting up with this. Left my bf after 7 years of other women and sailed down the Caribbean. Was set to leave it all behind. Until I found out he was hurting another girl. Very angry, I called the IRB/IRS and reported him for operating with no business license and paying no taxes for 10 years. He is now under full investigation. Don't lie down, ladies.
You rock😂🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
Very revengeful to call the tax authorities.
Strong 🎉- making up for putting up with silence.
@@orianam9835
... She said he was Hurting another girl !
I didn’t know that other women was a sign. He kept saying that women he dates are insecure.
I say that I don’t want to waste my time with someone who is not looking for long term love.
If I could only have one video on dealing with a Narcissist, THIS IS IT. Wow. Powerful .
yes
#Word
I left my husband of 25 years because he was a narcissist man. I learned this phrase in therapy: do not give a narcissist the power to hurt you. You give no information, no emotions, no interest. With 3 sons, it was difficult to avoid him, but keeping this sentence in mind all the time, it worked. He lost interest and took his narcissist ways somewhere else. A post-it by the phone at home, at work, really helped. Never answer the call. Wait for the voice mail and act accordingly or simply ignore. He could not control me anymore and went away. Good riddance. Life is sweet.
Well done you, I had married a Narc to and put up with his crap for 18.5 yrs , so glad I found the courage to. Also leave, he almost killed me once then pleaded he was sorry and it wouldn't happen again , it didn't physically but mentally he was killing with his coercive control. I've still not found the kind , honest, non narrasist, but hey I've become a strong independent women free from abuse.
Thanks for sharing, i'm going through the same here, two small kids and i can't block him everywhere. But this mindset has been working everyday a bit better. He's still going to lose interest, right now he's on desperation phase and doing every unimaginable thing to reach and hurt me.
One to keep in mind is not all narcissists are that smart, the less smart ones just resort to rage if you outsmart them, but none the less no one deserves to be abused, after all this narc research has given me new social exercise: Calling out the narcs on the spot
Ugh, I hate the "you're too sensitive" bs 🤦♀️
I just wish walking away didn't hurt so bad.
Ooh, you're getting shamed for being emotionally invested in how a person you care about treats you unkindly... such 'sensivity' _is_ a problem, isn't it...?
...sorry for the pain. 😗
Walking away is tricky indeed...
If you ever want to talk about why it's so hard to walk away, to maybe help you realize what is in your way, so at some point you'll be able to walk away with a clear conscious... Let me know 🙂
Though it doesn't get that much easier on the feels/your emotions, it will always remain painful and part of it is to accept a reality that is extremely hard to accept while your system is subconsciously doing it's best to prevent it because it costs you something precious... A certain innocence and being able to hope. But once lost, hope can be regained over time, though it will not be the same as before... But to be fair, should it be?
I'm very sorry you have to go through this sh-it...
They are a walking double standard
I told a narcissist (a lawyer who was defending a cop pedo) that I thought he was "Sleazy". He said, "What did I say to make you think I'm sleazy?" I remember thinking, Oh! I know this game! This game is no matter what I say, I lose. Let's play a different game. My answer was, "It's not what you said, so much as your overall general demeanor." He couldn't pick apart the words, "overall" or "general" and he got upset that he "lost the game".
So true! The only way to win is to walk away.
Well done. A solid presentation of general Narcissistic behavior. I was raised and emtionally abused by 3 narcissistic families. I know their behaviors on instinct; I have a physical reaction when someone does a narc behavior. I did not consciously do this; it's entirely a programmed response.
From 50+ years of dealing with narc family, I have a few more suggestions.
Just accept: every conversation with a Narcissist is a confrontation. They will not talk to you, unless the need something from you; that will always be them taking something, whether you want to give it or not. Control. Your. Emotions. When you are emotional, your higher brain functions are disengaged, to allow that Fight or Flight response. You have no rational logical, thoughts, if you are emotional.
Some of my narcs would 'poke the bear' to get that emotinal explosion so that you deal with their guilt and not them. Some did as Jimmy suggests: they need to feed off your emotions. Most of my narcs, poked the bear to keep their opponent off balanced, their higher brain functions disengaged.
I learned: CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS. Do not react; think then respond. State ONLY facts. Use very few words; Nouns and Verbs only. No adjectives or adverbs. NO discripter words. Just The Facts. You want this, I do not. I want that. I'm not changing my mind. Nothing else to discus. No. You cannot let your brother borrow my car. If the two of you take my car, I call the cops and tell them you two stole it. No. I will not bail you out. When they explode: you have my answer. There's nothing else to discuss. I'm done.
The goal with a coversation with a narc is the leave the conversation with your integrity intact and with as little damage as possible to your backside. The keys are: Control your emotions. State Only Facts. Say as little as you possbily can. YOUR words are a Narc's, most effective weapon against you. Whether that is to formulate future manipulations, or counter strikes in a confrontation.
If this is your parents or siblings, don't talk to them. No, not cut them off, just don't initiate conversation. Let them contact you, knowing they will only call you, if they need something. Say very little; general statements/facts, including things are going well, and just living lives.
Move away. Do not reside in your home town where they are. You aren't cutting them off. You simply need to put physical space between you, so they cannot invade your lives when ever they want. Make it an ordeal and expensive to get to your home.
Stop posting on your social media for about 3 months. After three months, post general regards for various holidays, and nothing more. We are grateful for our service men, on memorial day and veterans day. May you have a blessed Passover/Easter. They can still contact you, but you aren't giving them ammunition to use against you.
If you try to set up separate accounts and try to block the family, they will always find a way to get the News about you, and turn it to their advantage.
If you have narcs in your family, abandon social media under your own name. No more selfies at destinations, no more pics of the kids [you shouldn't do that anyway.] For Business Social Media, your name should not be anywhere on the account.
Your life will be more peaceful, if you give them nothing to use against you. Control your Emotions. State Only Facts. Say as little as possible. Social Media does not fit into those three communication requirements.
You are not cutting them off, you are simply not engaging with your family. Put them on an Information Diet; tell them no details about your lives. Oh, we're fine. Nothing worth writing home about; nothing that anyone else would be excited about. Just working and living.
For all extended family, avoid them as much as possible. Say as little as possible at family gatherings. Do not engage, let them come to you, knowing they won't talk to you, unless they want something from you. Control your emotions. State only Facts. Say as little as possible, and say the same things to everyone in the room. That way the gossips cannot colate everything you've said to formulate drama.
Paragraph #4 detailed the history that led to me divorcing myself from such familial toxicity. The next few decades were ripe with space to grow. Sadly, I married "my parents" in a completely different physical form and took another couple of decades to grow from that mistake. Thank you for your wise words and it is my hope that you share with others how to honor your emotions with control.
@@dlwilliamson5644 Thank You, for the kind words. I was raised by two narcissistic families, so that was Normal. I didn't recognize the 'love bombing' from the young man I married. Then the facade dropped, and now I have a third family emotionally abusing me; yet, I'm still dealing with Normal behaviors, no matter how much they hurt. In the 25th year of my marriage I found NPD, and that ripped the roof off my prison. I've read books, and many people's personal accounts, to have someone detail all the behaviors that I knew, but had no reference for. Once I knew the Name of the Behaviors, that's when I noticed my physical reaction to them.
From all that information, I developed my survival skills, and coping strategies. Worked on dismantling a life time of Programming. For me, that meant embracing my Religious Faith.
You can't cut your family off, entirely, unless you truly do a Witness Protection style escape. They don't like losing an Accomadator, and they will hunt you down. For me, it was easier to learn how to engage, because I wasn't healthy enough to escape. Now, most of my abusive family is dead, and the rest I never see.
You're quite welcome for any assistance my words have offered you. Just knowing, I wasn't the only one suffering from this, went a long way in motivating me to care for myself.
Every time I won an argument with my narc father he always screamed “you are a SOB” and I replied “ha ha I won” and then leave. He really hated my guts.
I have been working on boundaries and my self worth. My ex called while I was on my 6 mile walk yesterday. I didn't answer, I didn't call him back as soon as I saw he called. I finished my walk for me and then called back. My walks are for my mental health.
@@ShannonP216 How did it go on the phone? 💪🏼💪🏼
@ceciliamac4283 he surprisingly wasn't upset. He did want me to still parent from afar though. He'll never say no to the kids so he calls to have me do it. 🙄
My walking is key to my recovery, I have a great time with the crows, peanut deplomacy,
@@ShannonP216 They lack so much courage 😒
Glad it went well anyway!! Sending warm cheers from here 💜
@@MarkS-y6k Absolutely! My walking has been a game changer in my life.
Cool video Jimmy. My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let him go i did all i could to get him back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring him back
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counselor, and how do i reach her?
Her name is Shelly renee white , and she is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex.
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive
When something leaves, it's for the better. Cause you are making space for something better. You are worth it.
This is incredibly accurate. I've been falling for all the baits for years. When I figured out about cluster B personality disorders and covert narcissism I became a grey rock. And there I saw her mask falling down completely. She became even more deranged, cruel, toxic, abusive and erratic.
Now I'm 8 months divorced and she is dragging the division of property forever, spreading hilarious lies around and manipulating her lawyer into believing fantasy-land, just not to lose the last bit of control over me.
I cry of joy for not having any kid together.
A proverb in my country says: Never argue with a fool, he with his experience will be winning you over.
We have a similar proverb:
Winning an argument with a smart person is hard.
Winning an argument with a fool is impossible.
These people will bring out the worst in you and paint a picture. You were always the issue.
Yes, exactly. It is exactly bringing out the worst in me. I've given up as of today trying to talk to him. He was a drunken beast all weekend than his Monday/sobrr self can't stop asking, "are you mad at me?" " you seem nad at me."
I'm just being neutral and aloof. He's an addict as well and can't even look away from his screen (s) to make eye contact to even start a conversation- about anything. He's not my current partner, he's an ex boyfriend I live with. But yeah, no one else thinks there's no reason for me to be worried about the new kittens.....or the other legit responsibilities and my feelings- my stress level.
I chose divorce and I am so grateful for that one choice. Thank you Jimmy for all you do
I just broken free from an 18-year hellish torturous involvement with a narcissist. I have changed my phone number I've blocked him on every possible social media site and if he shows up at my door I will be getting a protection from abuse against him. I will not play with him anymore I will never let anyone treat me the way that he did
So right! It twists your mind and makes you question reality and your own thoughts. Detachment feels so good!
My partner likes to tell me how I’m always looking for a fight….. he cheats on me, lies to me and wants me to look the other way. When I try to get my point across he tells me im fighting for no reason and to sit down and “close my mouth”. Even when I’m not yelling, when I’m talking about what makes me upset he tells me I’m looking for a fight. Instead of admitting to cheating or apologizing he tells me it was my fault because I looked in his phone…. I was looking for problems
I hope you know, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!! They are making their own bad choices on their own
I hope you can leave him soon and safely Kelley. He will escalate if he hasn't, he will. Please be safe, you deserve to be respected
@@kelley4795 Stop talking to him, and focus on planning your escape. Focus your energy and effort on you, staying safe and getting out. I lived this nightmare for years until I finally caught him cheating and got him out of the house. See a lawyer as soon as you can and keep it a secret. Do not speak about your plans and get solid legal advice. I am praying for you.
This is true, it’s crazy making and you’re the only one that loses. You win when you stop letting them have control over you, your thoughts and feelings.
They are unsaveable, they are not like us. It’s not mean or inhumane to walk away, they are not your responsibility, you didn’t make them this way.
They will not put any energy into helping or fixing themselves, so why should you?
Exactly. They put in no effort.
Staying silent also becomes problematic.
Yep, might be accused of abusing them... Since silence is also a tool there.
Also, silence can indicate resignation... Which is the goal.
@@MeganS1995 Yes, but when it's family then it becomes very difficult. Narcissistic family members are conflict seekers and when u don't react, they come at u with their rage.
@@rishabhtripathi3859 That sounds frustrating and confusing... It's difficult to deal with a narcissist and come out with peace of mind.
I'm advocating for something like: "hey, I need a little space right now to consider this. Could I come back to you later?" when a conflict starts. Like keep it focused on what's best for both people.
You were reading that list and I'm all like "check, check, check, check, check." 😢😢😢
it's crazy that as i kid i developed a behavior of avoiding my narcissist father (playing in the living room when i heard his truck in the driveway i went to my room, i ate dinner in my room too, etc.) and then as an adult i tried to make a better relationship with him. turns out kid me figured it out pretty well actually, the best move is avoidance.
Recently I've returned to that same old youthful way of coping - and surviving; staying in my room to avoid my narc roommate. Though now I'm a 57 year old women being cowed by a difficult person...in my own home. I'm hiding in my room or the garage..like you said, when I hear the car or the front door. My parents were good people but there was mental illness and alcohol abuse in the mix during my childhood. I can see exactly right now how unsafe I felt as an Itty bitty one.
Don't argue. Avoid them or grey rock their arguments. It is not worth the energy.
There is no love without respect. I'm just working on creating distance. I know, whatever they say, that it is abuse and violence. Whatever my feelings I wontt engage in conflict.
Thanks for the support and the reminder.
Wow. That list Jimmy read out - nailed the description of my wife perfectly! I've been working through the divorce legal process now since late 2022 with no end! 100% everything Jimmy said I've been through (yes, even when I disengaged I got the "you NEVER loved me!"). Even being silent caused issues. I am in therapy now for my Complex PTSD, and now that I'm out I never expected that depression that follows. All the trauma I had been through, and repressed during the time, has now surfaced for me to deal with. If anyone else is going through this, get help, get support. Make your healing journey about being a better you and do not make it about doing the opposite of the abuser or to 'show that person how strong you are' it is and never should be about them - it is only about being a better you for you
The list of characteristics were 100% dead accurate!!
Its really hard to battle with them they are just so good in arguments in the end you are the bad guy
Billie Eilish: _"...duh."_
You can "win" the argument by remaining in control and not letting yourself be taken for a loop by understanding what is going on and how the manipulation works.
Doesn't mean there is any price to get out of it, you win but nothing will change.
The only thing that will change is that they will push you further away because they don't like losing, more so than they don't like looking at or changing themself.
It also never feels like a win because it's frustrating, tiring and depressing to deal with and it always ends with a cold shoulder.
I'd still say it's better than getting taking for a loop or giving in to them.
Especially since it means they'll end up ditching you if it continues on long enough :D
(or short enough in a lot of cases as well, which is also somewhat of a bluff: they use leaving you as leverage because you don't want to lose someone you for some reason care about. Or they legit just switch supply because they had multiple hooks out anyway, either way good riddens...)
Just that they'll want you back the moment you are happy again with someone else, but that's a different story... They don't like seeing you happy with others, or have someone else play with their toy... Either they play with their toy or no1 does, and some don't mind breaking their toy to ensure that... (stay away from malignants!)
Jim, this is so spot on. I lived with that for several years. I'm very glad that there are people who are exposing these narcissists. Thank you for what you do 😊.
This is so true to a T ! How I feel from my current relationship, he chooses people over me and says it's a problem with me. Tells he will do something then doesn't. He says I shouldn't be hurt or think a certain way. I found myself saying things back and yelling i literally told him last night i never have acted this way with anyone hes pushed me to a breaking point no matter what i say he invalidates me
@@Truckerbabe89 Please, leave. I know it’s hard but I did it and as much as I missed him at first, I feel SO SO SOOOO MUCH BETTER without that piece of puke that use to invalidate me and telling me: it’s your interpretation of things, can you just move on, bla-bla-bla. Oh how I don’t miss those toxic sentences.
You got this!! Trust me. Angels are and will be with you every step of the way. And what helps is to do: somatic yoga (from trauma informed coaches in TH-cam). It helps a lot healing the heart and releasing trauma. Also, automatic writing 3 pages every morning and shredding and throwing them away. It doesn’t matter what you write as long as you don’t put the pen down. Even if it’s a grocery list followed by insulting that person who speaks garbage to you, put anything that passes by your mind. It’s very healing.
Oh and EFT tapping. There is this one video I loved about tapping after leaving a narcissistic relationship and she was tapping for the feeling of desolation they leave you in and with. It was powerful to say the words while tapping.
You can’t save something that’s doomed to collapse. Just make sure you’re not “in the building” when it does collapse.
165 comments within 5 hours! Jimmy- you are so very needed and appreciated.
28,000 views @ 3 days. Most don't comment.
You just described my life and absolutely confirmed for me what I’m dealing with. Thank you Jimmy. This makes my path a little clearer. I’m sending myself this video so I can remind myself each morning.
Thanks again!
They will do things that force you into confrontation
🎯
Run 'n' gun.
I ain't gonna take no more mixed messaging off my mom. And she _knows_ it.
Yes, right. In my case that's exactly what's about to happen - I'm being forced into a confrontation. I'm sitting/hiding in the garage trying to work out what I need and how to say it. I'll probably cry and as I'm a woman I may be accused of being upset over nothing. Usually I stay quiet and leave, but I'm holding in too much. I know because it's making me sick, physically and mentally. I'm crying all the time , and no, I don't need to call my shrink for more pills. That's his recent song.
@@ElizabethDAntonio Can you minimize their involvement in your life? That's the ideal thing to do..
@@ElizabethDAntonio are you safe?
Oh wauw, that's my mom! 😪 I tried my whole life to get love from her while she does no effort at all and hurts me every time!!! She doesn't take any responsability, my emotions are not allowed to be there, she doesn't know what empathy is, she is always the victim (she was when she was a child), she shames and blames me, she uses me (lies) to get other people's sympathy, she constantly critizes me, ... I got the message (my whole life) that I'm worthless... did she ever want me??? She makes me so unhappy/sad, she even makes me ill (auto-immunedisease due to trauma). IT HURTS SO MUCH!!!! No mother should do this to her child! I am now healing my inner child and it gives me hope; the little me deserves love and respect. 🥰
Seems like a waste of time and energy to me. I have other things to do than waste my time arguing with a narcissist. Ignore the narcissist and find someone else.
My in laws are the narcissists. My husband has all the trauma bonding signs of being a child of narcissist parents. Everyday I tell myself, "If I leave him to deal with his parents alone, he'll never know true unconditional love." So I stay and try and help him through the trauma. Even though sometimes he treats me like his parents treat him. Which I have to remind him when he does it. All the while trying to heal from my own childhood trauma. I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible about dealing with narcissist parents and helping heal the child of a narcissist. Some days it takes all the love I have for my husband not to leave. I pray a lot and read a lot for our marriage.
Took control by filing for divorce after almost 12 years. Now I have my own home and feeling more and more like myself. Thank you for your videos!
Exactly! Don’t engage! I’m out!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's amazing how hard it can be to detach even when you've disengaged. He's still in my head every day, and we haven't spoke or seen each other in a year. I definitely still feel crazy.
That’s good to know, that their word are still with you after a year. Recover is long and hard ❤❤❤
I do too. I had disengaged from warring words and boom! He could not handle my peace. It has been 14 months and even though I think of him too often, Jimmy and communities like this remind me to "remember" clearly and not to put on those metaphorical rose colored glasses of nostalgia.
It’s not about winning, it’s about being understood which I’m learning (finally) is impossible with anyone who shows narcissistic traits
I love Jimmy's work, and before I watch this one, I have to tell you my sure fire method for arguing and winning with a Narcissist.
it is actually EASY! You only have to be SLEEPING because in my case it would ONLY be in my DREAMS!
OK, now I am ready to watch another great video from Jimmy!
The description of a narcissist is so accurate.
It all fits...👏
A loose-loose relationship/ endless unhealthy conflicts...
So so true !!!
I am so glad I asked him to leave...
You absolutely NAILED IT. Thank you.
Last winter, I got into a huge fight with my younger sibling after years of me feeling fearful of them rejecting me if I spoke up about their criticism of me and others. Frankly, I got fed up being gaslit and blamed. I was told that I was vindictive, arrogant, etc. etc. At the same time, I took full responsibility for how I didn't handle the fight as well as I could have. I was asked to leave their home by the next day. Before leaving, I left an apology letter (which, to be honest, what I do) then a month later I sent another letter. My sibling blocked me on everything the day after the fight. Then I found out that the sibling refused to read my letters (and even asked one of their young adult children to read it who told my sibling that it was a letter of apology; it didn't matter, they refused to read it). Essentially, my sibling did everything they could to have it be no-contact with me. After all these months, I've come to accept this reality. BTW, I continue to have good relationships with their grown children and with their partner.
They are like explosive children who have been caught out red handed, and will do anything to take the heat off of their own shame.
Thank you for validating those of us who really needed this!!!
Thank you. I'm a year and a bit no-contact with my mother, and she's now started to try and creep back in - using my kids to send messages. I needed this as a reminder as to why I keep no-contact.
Indeed! Respectful & productful conversation in relationship! Emotional safety!
This was very healing to hear. Exactly my life and I did get sick. I lived in this for 12 years. Already my health is improving and I can remember myself and what is good about me. Now I can give more of me to my 5 children.
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really loved him so much I can’t stop thinking about him, I’ve tried my very best to get him back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of him, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss him and just can’t stop thinking about him
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let him go i did all i could to get him back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring him back.
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counselor, and how do i reach him?
His name is Father Obah Eze, and he is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex.
he is father obah eze, he has great powers, he can help you.
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked him up now online. impressive
Wow. Exactly how I feel. I’m going down two fast. After seven years. I feel my life crumbling but after hearing this. I’m not the only one that has felt this way. Thank you . For this video .
Thank you Jimmy! You are so right on about everything. Ladies, muster up all your strength (and in my case stubbornness) and do not let them get to you anymore. Disengage. Go rogue. It will be the best thing you ever did. They will show you their true colors if you couldn’t already see them. It will be a gift.
Or, you just divorce them and live in peace. ❤
Agreed, but that's often easier said than done.
@@bud7551 It was brutal divorcing my ex. However, six years after the fact I can look back and see that it was worth the trauma and I am healing.
Jimmy, I've had to learn this the hard way with my ex-husband who is a covert narcissist. We share a teenage son so unfortunately he is still in my life a while longer. Thank you for sharing this video as it validates the experience some of us have had. As you say in the video, this is difficult and it is. No one understands until they are in a relationship with a narcissist. Setting boundaries and standing your ground is the only way to have sanity and "win".
He took the kids and left. Then when they came back 3 days later of abject fear, terror, and unknowing where they where, he brought them back and said to me, I thought you'd be grateful we came back.😮
But be prepared. Because once you finally get the knowledge & the courage to set those healthy boundaries, they might get aggressive or violent. Because they are used to being in control. If theyve gotten away with this for years, they don't like to think of you as a person who has your own mind apart from them.
But this video was an encouraging reminder for me of reality. It helps to hear someone who understands describe what you've experienced.
They always get worse once their usual control tactics don’t work. I’ve found this with all the cluster B types throughout my life. As I’ve been working on myself and looking back at family roles; my family members, my “romantic” relationships, my ex ex etc - they all have consistently increased abuse as I’ve set boundaries or spoken up. The consequence to boundaries is more abuse. For the last few years I’ve recorded every conversation with my family members - to maintain my sanity “I never said that”, yelling, swearing, name-calling, re-writing history, lying. Recording only goes so far, I had to go no contact because every contact was just abuse - pointless.
@@annie_charcheologist What is Cluster B?
I speak English but as a 3rd language and I’m not familiar with this term. Thank you 🤍
@@ceciliamac4283 cluster b refers to antisocial personality disorder (PD), borderline PD, histrionic PD, narcissistic PD.
@@annie_charcheologist Thank you very much for the explanation
@@ceciliamac4283 nawww that’s fine.
"Narcissists" is much too forgiving a label, as if they couldn't help it. Why not call them what they are? A-holes.
A-holes are loud and proud.
My mom, by contrast? _Sneaky, manipulative, not vulgar in the least._
...it's a spectrum.
@@E4439Qv5 yes, not vulgar exactly
That’s the worst for me because they act almost like they are classy and elegant even while they are trashing our souls
There are subcategories of narcissists, they all behave in different ways, as well as being on a spectrum.
Narcissist is not a forgiving label, it means there is no possible change: It's a life sentence.
It's quite harsh actually, there is a reason it gets shunned in society and you get trouble for calling someone as such.
There are only 2 worse labels I can think of: Sociopath and psychopath.
Though these labels have been taken away, because again harsh labels that everyone knows and people hear psychopath and think serial killer while that's mostly not even the case.
The new label for both sociopath and psychopath is now "anti-social disorder".
So it sounds a lot more cleaner and people don't have the same negative stigma with it, but it doesn't make them any less dangerous...
Anyway, it's not a forgiving label, I think a-hole is quite kind in comparison.
Sometimes I can be an a-hole too, but I'm definitely not a narcissist.
@@RealMunkeyKung That such a good way of explaining it. Thanks for your feedback 🤍 You said it so clearly and I can’t agree more about every bit of it.
buddy NPD (narcissist personality disorder) is a literal DISORDER !!!!!!! they're people!! and they may not be easy to be with but they can love and can be loved !!!
this term is so overused for "a-holes" and is hurting real, struggling people.
You don't explain, you don't argue and you don't defend.
OMG - I literally said to myself on a regular basis “I’m not easy to live with. It’s not like he’s cheated or hit me”. I finally figured out that that is not even the bare minimum when it comes to marriage - and he had cheated multiple times. I finally left… and it still took me a year to admit my husband was emotionally abusive and that my marriage had always been a lie - I now say my marriage was based on uniformed non-consent. I agreed to marry the man he showed me and the marriage I thought we agreed on - unfortunately he didn’t tell me what he actually was going to give me. When I used to ask him what I did that was so bad that justified his behaviour and abuse, he told me I was too kind and too nice. Now that I am out, I realized that on a conscious and/or unconscious level my husband knew he didn’t deserve that kindness and that triggered his shame - which just made him more abusive toward me - because it had to be my fault for him to hide from that shame.
read the forbidden book Magnetic Aura on Borlest, and you'll see the secrets they're keeping from us.
Don't really read books, but sounds interesting.
What is it about?
Just described my wife and my situation to the T. Chasing my room to room trying to argue more, throwing shit and then telling me it’s ok cause they were upset when they did it so they’re allowed. 8 years together and the last 3 years in therapy because every convinced me I was the crazy one and my therapists convincing it’s really not me and I’m pretty normal.
I now know I’m being abused emotionally and psychologically but just can’t leave still, I can’t bare the thought of breaking up our family and keep holding on to hope things will change. Lately I’ve just been telling myself it’ll either change or I’ll have to get sick of it at one point and leave because I just won’t be able to take the belittling and slandering and gaslighting anymore. I will be heavily mentally damaged by then but I’ll be able to say I tried to my kids….
You never stay …ever.You teach your children that behaviour is normal.Leave.
I have been around narcissists and manipulators for YEARS! This cycle is also in my family. It is toxic no one in my family and even my exes in my past relationships are not capable of holding themselves accountable. I realized that the change starts inside. If i begin to hold myself accountable inside, i attract people who hold themselves accountable and they have a sense of integrity and i love being around people like that. This is an amazing video ❤❤❤
I have a very narcissistic and abusive daughter. So as long as I'm walking on eggshells and do not disagree with her on any of her life choices, there is peace. There I disagree, all hell break loose and I become the evil, abusive, horrible person.
I feel you... my adult daughter IS the entire list. I had to seek therapy a few years ago and take medicine for anxiety and depression. As much as it hurt me..I had to enforce my boundaries, and now we Don't talk. We are at zero contact. After 20+ yrs of mental abuse, protecting myself is more important.
I felt like Miranda in Sex In The City: "Baby. I love you.... but I love me more"
Absolutely great message and so accurate to the typical narcissist and how they operate, this is exactly how my own experience played out with a narcissist wife and daughters and I have just had to cut ties completely for my own sanity.
My husband is bending. But he's not there yet. I'm already sick. I think I finally found a good therapist, so hopefully, I don't fade into oblivion.
For once I feel heard. Thank you for this video. It describes everything I am going through perfectly. 💯
Okay I need to take notes for the next time I meet my father.
I took the notes, did not engage and boom! within a two weeks he died. Not a tear has been shed for him. Take those notes into the meeting if you see your father. Wear something that reminds you to keep your emotions in a positive realm of control.
Thanks Jimmy, always, for your insight and support of all of us.
After yet another altercation with my ex it’s as though this video was made for me. He doesn’t trigger me like he used to, I see him as who he is now, and I have better boundaries and have detached. When the conflicts happen, and they do, it’s nice to be reminded of all the things you just said.
This video was spot on. I tried very hard and she used it all against me. I tried to understand her, i opened up to her, i was vulnerable, i expressed my emotions, i gave her room to express hers, i tried to help her understand herself. I did everything earthly possible. I tried loving her harder. She used everything against me. She was a victim. She used all my triggers and emotions. I tried every approach possible. I can go on and on. She discarded me and just moved on.
Oh my gawd you just described my relationship at the start of this video. Feel am going crazy and losing myself.
Thanks so much for the caring, I feel battered verbally and must get away and out.
SPOT-ON, 100%!!!
I'm SOOO glad I found your content!
Thanks for doing what you do!
Ty you SO much. You actually teach and give concrete info for those of us discovering we are, or have been, with a narcissist
Jimmy on Relationships, nice content dude
If this narcissistic person feels threatened by you refusing to engage with them, you need to be very careful to protect your safety. They are the most dangerous when they realize that they have lost control of you. Give some thought to how and when you can safely escape. Get help before you try to escape. If you need a shelter, it is best to have a relationship with them beforehand, they might not be able to take you without that. There are other practical things you consider.
They want me to feel overwhelmed
cried watching this. Thank you for validating my life, even just for another day.
You just described my relationship with my boyfriend to a 'T'.
Thank you so much for the time you share with your caring and oving words that we all need to hear. I'm making the decision to leave but after 12 years, it's so hard. I keep thinking it will get better but it never does. When he knows I have one foot out the door, he pretends to care about me. This never lasts.
I'm actually told I frequently flip out so we can't go out on dates, just in case.... He once told me I need to be a good girl first.
Makes me sick.
@@Marra-c3e I am
Sorry to read this. You can do it!!!!!!!!
Be a good girl first?!? Welp, as long as you are willing to be referred to as his child...you know what to do - leave, and do the work to prepare for an adult relationship. Yes, you can. 💯
@@treeplanted5446 YES 🙌🏼
He is every single name I called when he pushed me to anger! I loathe him! I’m glad he’s gone!
Thank you Jimmy and Mrs Jimmy also, from Australia.
We get addicted to "hopium", thinking they will mature/change. But they do not change, thus we waste our lives, even decades. If you can, plan your escape and then do it. Do not waste your precious life. Even after you get out, it takes a very long time to heal. How much time do you have left? Do not waste it. You deserve better so start taking care of yourself better. I am 6 years out this week and still healing.....
How much I wished for a final debate that never happened! Now, with all I know about him, if he would come back for it, I would run away as fast as I can.
BEST VIDEO YET
I know these things are true after having lived for 59 years with a person with whom I needed to learn how to draw boundaries. When I did begin doing these things, it actually worked quite well. It all takes time, and patience with yourself!
Right moment to hear this message ❤ Thank you. This is actually saving me.