How to point out a narcissist to other people
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2020
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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Nobody believes it until they themselves become the victim.
Yes, totally agree. They're grateful you exist because you're security for them as long as you stay where you are being the victim..... they feel safe because they're not being targetted and they don't care that you are being targetted.
Yes.
lakelizard 👍
@@lesleyelalami2562 This is why so many siblings in narc family systems tend to not get along (at least, not until they're older and they finally talk things out, IF the relationship wasn't damaged too much as kids). You have one or more kids getting abused and the other kids learn not to do or say anything wrong to avoid it; it's another way of pitting the kids against each other. The "good" kids and the "bad" kids. Even though, most likely, all the kids are getting abused in some way, emotionally or physically.
This is probably what will end up being responsible for human extinction.
A wise man said: do not seek revenge, the rotten fruits will fall by themselves.
Yes, the Bible says vengeance is mine, I will repay .Amen.
It has nothing to do with revenge. And everything to do with healing. Some of us need validation. Just if nothing else to know WE aren't insane. We are NOT to blame. As they told everyone including us. I thought I was loosing my mind . Like I was told. Until she called me one. The second time it occurred I thought I. Better look this up. There it was a perfect description by f my ex. I was two shakes from blowing my own head off. Not hers. Its not revenge. Its sanity.
This lady is narcissistic about being anti narcissistic..let’s talk about being obsessed with the need to be a victim and overcoming your feelings of inferiority. If you are not on the same level and feel abused by all means seek a greener pasture. A perfect life does not exist…a perfect partner does not exist one will always be stronger than the other..this we all need to be perfect and equally matched to our partners is horse shit. If you are bothered by a narcissistic partner, friend etc. buck up or move on.
One of my new favorite sayings, thank you! ✨✨✨
Oh, this is good. ⚡
Yes this happened. Almost by accident, called a family member a narc to another family member. The immediate reaction was shock and horror. "nooo! We don't see that, no way, they don't act like that, you're just a jerk...etc".
Nobody else can see it, because the narc creates a unique relationship with each person.
Yes! The mother who treats you like shit, tells you everything you do is wrong, you are incompetent but always, always they do this when you alone at home when no one else is around. Then, when you leave to save yourself, you are suddenly a bad, ungrateful daughter.
They do eventually.
Their diabolical manipulation of their relationship with each person is ... humm ... what's the word: SINISTER!
@@michelleduncan9965 ..from a religious perspective perhaps but from a scientific point of view it's a result of emotional repression.
@@MyheartofthematterMost will if they are privy to the true antics that go on.
Self-preservation speaks louder than calling a narcisist out. Thank you dr Ramani ❤
It is a lonely life
@@cynthiahassan9839❤:(
😅 8:50 😅´ 8b😮:50.😂😊
True!!!!
A nice home, a nice lifestyle, a nice car, all those things don't matter when your life is a prison.
I totally agree! I live in one fir 16 years.., last 4 years were the worst because I opened my eyes.. 👎
Amen! Nothing is worth a lifetime of abuse.
Pray to GOD
So true!
Totally relatable!
The worst is when someone says: "There are two sides to every story." It is insidiously dismissive in a way that it implies that your abuse is not reality - that it's just a perception.
At the same time it implies that all of the lies the narcissist in your life tells about you are just as "valid" and true as your experience.
It's especially detrimental to hear this when you are already having your reality questioned on a regular basis through gaslighting.
And there is no way to convince someone that the narcissist is lying unless they witness the abuse or catch someone in a lie themselves.
The harder you try to convince, the more crazy and unstable you look.
This is why I would only talk about this with others on TH-cam. It can be extremely triggering to discuss it with others.
Lo, you need to remove yourself from this situation. Things will not get better, only worse. You are literally being driven ‘crazy’ by this situation and have lost sight of yourself. It is not enough to just talk about it. You need to get out of this toxic web you’re in if you ever hope to regain your stability. Take it from someone who was caught for decades. The only solution is to purposefully take steps and get out. Be strong and look after yourself. You don’t need to prove yourself to these people. They’ve got you pigeonholed and will not relinquish their view of you or their position in the family.
My former worship pastor told me, "Between your version of the story and his [my ex husband's] is/lies the truth." It was so invalidating that it was traumatizing. It implied that my experiences were a matter of perception or were subjective, and it also suggested that I was either exaggerating or lying about what had happened to me. I explained to him that my (now) ex is a master manipulator, then I walked away and never spoke with him about the situation ever again. I'm dealing with complex PTSD - depression, panic attacks and anxiety, insomnia, brain fog, low self-esteem, lack of focus, etc. because of what I experienced those 18 years with my ex. When someone tells me that there are two sides to every story, they're telling me that my symptoms aren't real or a result of something else because it probably wasn't nearly as bad as what I'm saying it was and it probably wasn't abuse. We were just incompatible.
Lo : Get out NOW ❣. Please. While you still have a pulse.
Lo : it's very scary. It's also scary to be alone.
I had a boss who was narcissistic. The entire team found them confusing and demeaning. I suggested they look at Narcissism on TH-cam. The next day they were all saying “ Oh my goodness, that is so X”. It was so healing for the team
Nobody believes at all until they experience it
When you call out the narcissist that's when you find out who else is a narcissist. Empath friends support you. Narc friends disown you.
BINGO
In my case it was everyone else who believed the narcissist and disowned me.
Sometimes it is not because they disown you but because it is too hard to face their own discomfort at being called out. Silence may be a kindness if they truly don't know how to respond in a less toxic way.
I think people somehow think they are a better judge of character than you - based on their few short pleasant interactions compared to your years of experience. It demonstrates how stupid they are and makes them feel superior and comfortable because they can go on being friendly with the "nice guy" you're accusing. They soon come running to you for sympathy once he turns on them too - I wouldn't give them the time of day.
You got that right... as soon as i broke up with my ex fiancé, when i told my “friends”, their response was crap lol and they didn’t support me.. sucks knowing that ur friends turn out to be stinky narcs😣😭
Everyone who's never been able to convince others that someone is a narcissit just remember this saying:
"A lie is a lie no matter how many people believe it and the truth is the truth no matter how many people don't."
Wow I love that.
Thank you
"A lie will always tell the truth " Calvin E. Warren
💯
TRUMP CULT
Once, a psychologist I follow on Instagram received a question about narc moms on her stories, and she said she had never heard that term in her many years of college, that this was an invention, that the mother always does their best and kids don't appreciate them, and that maybe the kids were the narcissists, wanting more attention than the mother could offer. I had to tell her two of the worse things my mother did to me and my brother, and her answer was: "but this is not a mother, it's a monster." And I replied that it was a narcissist mother and that there were many of them around, and that she should educated herself on narcissism. That same day she came back to her stories saying she received lots of messages of people telling their stories with their narc mothers, and that she was shocked. A few weeks later, she showed up talking about narcissism, and how it's not taught in academy, and that it is a real thing and it was not just mothers, but anyone could be a narcissist. I was glad I could help her open her eyes.
wow, awesome. You see, it can be so important to speak up...
Incredible!! You have no idea how far reaching your actions were in this case!!!
🙏🏼
I have a narcissistic mother too. Very covert, expert manipulator that punished me my whole life for bonding with my dad, who she hated. It was all a mess. I had to go no contact. And my family does not understand. They see her seeking their approval, not how cruel she can be to me in private. I just walked away from nearly everyone. It hurt but is so much better to have my peace and live my life. I can't prove anything and won't be putting myself in a situation where I would have to think about it
@@badgtter9095
Hey.
You are deserving of so much more than what your narc mom could give. You are an authentic and beautiful person, something she can't stand to be in the presence of fore it shines light on her darkness.
I'm not trying to make a point here. I just want you to know you aren't alone in this experience and we who have gone through it SEE YOU.
I wish you the very best that life can offer. 👊🏼
-Son of a narc mother
I’m glad she educated herself. Some folks in the mental health field don’t always seem open to learning.
It took 12 years of no contact with my mom until her family FINALLY asked why. I also had phone call recordings when I was only 12 of her saying she never wanted me, saying that I didn’t deserve her love, saying that it was my fault our family fell apart and she was better off without a constant reminder of my existence. These phone recordings really helped put it into perspective for others just how different she was in private versus in public. It wasn’t admissible court evidence for the custody battle that took place, but it was admissible for judgment from peers.
Oh so true I have emails from mine saying he was sorry for abusing me. I so want to send them yo his flying monkeys and then tell him I did to see him suffer the way he made me suffer.
I’m so sorry that’s what your Mother said. That must have been so hurtful at the time.
@@danielmulcahi6327 sorry for your experience. Just be aware that in someplaces are ilegal to share private conversations, so you can plan it carefully. ❤
Yes my mother told me and my brother that she told doctors to take me away she didn't want m
e she wanted a girl, between ages of ten and 12 years old.
My mom told a judge "I don't care where you put her, I never want to see her again. She's not coming in my car with me or to MY house with MY family." The whole courtroom turned around to look at her in shock. The judge told her "she's your daughter, you can't do that" and she said "I don't care. I'm getting in my car and she will not be in it." I was put in a shelter that day. It's truly heartbreaking and terrifying to hear your parents say things like this. Thank God we're stronger than them. I can tell by your comment that you are. We survived. That's the most important thing. From here we can go anywhere. For the narcs, they have life sentences of loneliness and misery. All I can say is, thank God we aren't them!
When you expose an abuser, you're dismantling society
That's why it's so hard
Then society needs a good therapist. We don't need enablers. Perhaps being ruthless to both kind will help us building a good society.
whoa that was truth to power, right there. (If you ever come back to this thread, you would probably be very interested in what I wrote in a standalone comment.)
Cognitive dissonance hard at work.
@@geetagupta9151 Narcissists don''t want therapy. They want enablers.
@@soulscanner66 that's what I said.
Just don't use the word narcissist. I've been able to get support from friends and family, just telling them about what my narcissist does: when she gaslight me, invalidate me, tries to manipulate me and so on. They understand the mean conduct, not the terms so call out the actions.
Smart
I'll try this, thanks!
Yes this definitely works just don't talk about them when they are around it will only backfire
The most helpful comment - labels are not helpful, authentic descriptions are 🙏🏼
Ok BUT in terms of getting this awareness happening there is some benefit in using the term/language. I see it as planting a seed just don`t go on and on about it. People turn off
Wow 😂 👍🏾 "You give the narcissist the space they need to hurt other people because they rarely disappoint at doing that." Powerful truth and when added with "life isn't fair" and "it's not your job to protect everyone" ..... it helps me see how much self preservation is the best way up help a situation
It's like jumping ship to save yourself. You feel badly for those left behind but in order for you to live ....
Put your oxygen mask first.
I followed the golden rule never to confront a narcissist when leaving the last situation I was in, and I think it helped me to leave as quickly and safely as I could.
I was married to a narcissist with BPD in the 90’s. He was able to put on the BIG show to my parents & siblings. Friendly, charismatic, and full of charm. All of them - except my twin sister- fell for the big show. I divorced him in the 90’s much to the disapproval of my family who all sided with him - such a “nice” guy. I told everyone about the real him, I told them he was out of control and would murder a woman some day. They didn’t believe me. My own mother (that I later realized is a narcissist herself) said I shouldn’t expect to be respected in marriage because he may have never learned about respect in his childhood. How unfair of me! He’s currently in prison, today, for murdering his ex girlfriend. Not sure if the family visits the nice guy.
oh my God... So happy for you that you did trust in your intuition and got out.
Wow Julia !!! So glad you saw what he was, that you got away, & that you recovered !
Wowza! THANK GOD YOU FIGURED THINGS OUT!!!!
FEMALE INTUITION FOR THE WIN!
same exact experience! Except he spelled out in great detail how he would murder me and get away with it. I'm waiting for him to either overdose or murder someone else. It's just a matter of time!
My goodness, this is so scary 🙈🙈 so glad you got out. So sad the other woman didn't 😞
Love the "flying monkeys" metaphor, because it's true. Their enablers are completely blind to the situation because the narcissist treats them differently than he/she treats you.
They aren't blind...they just care about their own ass more than yours. Working with a Narc Boss is like being on survivor island
Flying Monkeys are nothing more than low life, bottom feeders trying to exercise their own sense of power. Eventually they become yesterday's trash to their beloved narc 😄.
The "flying monkeys" metaphor comes from an excellent book, "The Wizard of Oz & Other Narcissists: Coping With One-Way Relationships." I highly recommend reading it if you haven't. I couldn't make sense of the world until I read it.
No they get treated the same but they are brainwashed or scared of the narc. They are usually weaker characters that the narc can bully. They are fooled into a lifetime of servitude. In other words, being abused becomes the norm for flying monkeys
@@peaceangel-rl2hf you could be right. I appreciate your take on the flying monkey. I know this, I have zero sympathy for anyone who becomes one to a narcissist. We ALL have free will to do the right thing. No Excuses.
Thank you for shedding light on this aspect. Sadly only the victims of Narcissism get it.
“You let their behavior speaks for itself” truth 💯 this is how I defended myself from a narc recently. Be patient it will take a year : after a year people realized that I never throw anybody under the bus and that my sole purpose was doing my job, unlike the narcissist. This is when I earned more respect and credibility. Stay dignified, high leveled, never strike back, control your emotions, act if you have to but never react. Thanks to TH-cam and the internet now plenty of information is available about the narcissists profiles so that now HR and many people start to be aware of these hidden predators. So, you don’t have to be explicit and to call them out, many people understand already. If you call them out you fall into the narcissist’s trap which is reversing the roles of victim and abuser.
i swear that some of the reality shows on TV like Married at first sight for instance, exist to show the world how Narcs work and how to recognise them and how to deal with them.
I am 69 years Ike and grew up with a malignant narcissist mother who is 94 and still hasn’t passed away. I am finally getting the validation I have needed my whole life thank you Dr Ramani
Why do narcissists criticize someone's mental capacity on the basis of emotional outbursts, when the narcissist has emotional outbursts almost weekly?
Projection of self onto others. They are too inept to empathise and find out the real cause , so they can only project.
Narcissists view their own outrage as other people’s fault, justified by other people’s incompetence. Therefore, it “doesn’t count” as their own emotion, so they can claim they’re just being “logical.”
It’s a super fun game. 😳
Thankfully everyone is becoming aware...
@@jojotheoj And they even cite Jesus Christ or Buddha, and reference spiritual or inspirational quotes on the importance of being calm. When they aren't! It's like spiritual abuse! To have someone reprimanding and counseling your behaviour, when they themselves are raving lunatics who regularly throws hissy fits and often times objects. They physically assault people and then counsel them to be more calm!
I think you meant daily ; P
This is why narcissism should be a required class in school...EVERYONE needs to be educated about them. Teach people what this is, how to recognize it and how to deal with it (don’t!!). Knowledge is power 💪.
Ok but the majority of humans reject their failures, can't or won't understand what's really going on and why, therefore can't teach, and ultimately hurt children or worse. All humans are failing at figuring out how to stop the core problem causing humans hurting humans. It's one thing to say what should be done about this, but the reality of the human condition will not listen to what should be done. But please keep trying to figure out something that will work.
I was purposely isolated. They didn’t want anyone to tell me. I went to school though. It would have saved me.
I don’t know about in America, but in Britain about half of the teachers are Narcissists. They are never going to be able to deliver any mental health lessons without turning them into more abuse. We need mental health professionals to go in and deliver that curriculum. In the UK there’s often calls for more mental health and relationship training to go on the curriculum, and delivered by teachers, and I’m like “are you kidding me?”
Agree
I tried to just be me, until My little brother told me that our sister had told him that I hated him,(since he was born), after that knowledge I completely cut any ties or communication at all. I couldn't even call her if I wanted to because I deleted her number from my phone. I believe how she treated us both over the years was a form of witchcraft. The Bible says , "give no place to the devil". 🙏🏼🙏🏾🙏🙏🏿
What worked best for me was stop reacting to their abuse, my narc’s abuse got worse and they finally saw what he was doing. He slipped up, cause he was triggered by my lack of reaction. Their words and actions don’t match eventually. And anyone who willing ignores their bad behaviour is not someone you should have in your life.
It helped that the mental health professionals involved saw right through him, confronted his accusations and supported me.
"triggered by my lack of reaction"....
Yep.
I didn't call the narcissist as such by name to other people in my work place, but I offered support to coworkers that opened up to me about abuse by that person and taught them how to deal with them and have assured them that it is the narcissist who is the problem, not them. I have called it their "personality" issues.
The children with a narcissistic parent are looked at like ..it’s just teenager rebellion “ when in fact they are becoming depressed and withdrawn because of constantly being berated🤬
The problem is that they still try anything to prove their worth to the narc. My kid chooses to be with him rather than me even though they had less problems during the time spend with me, but he has the control and is ruthless enough to use manipulation. 😢
Tell me more
The narc will sometimes try to turn the children agaunst the other parent. The narc also puts on a front to the public. So, the abused victim is never believed by outsiders who have SEEN the fake face.
Exactlyyyy
My child is being destroyed, I’m at the point of doing something for her, been miserable for 30 yrs and my 2 adult children show side effects, but my teenager is THE ONE!
My experience is that most people don't understand the techniques used to hurt you, and narcissists are clever, often more affluent, and people can be very shallow.
Most people will side with the narcissist and invalidate your experiences.
So true
Yeah people are shallow that's the problem so they refuse to consider the possibility
Yeah people are superficial. They see the surface charade and blindly believe it. They see someone driving an expensive car and think, gee, that person does well. Well how do they know that is not their fathers' car, or uncles' car? Or their brother went on holidays and asked the idiot to take care of it. Dumb assed species is human kind.
All hurt is personal hurt, you can't explain how you got hit by a bus, or thrown under it, people can empathise with you, but the main thing to focus on, is that most of us didn't recognise the pattern, while in fact we should have learned to take care of ourselves. Our lives should be about how good your life is going to be, now you know, and they stay in the past unable to change, people who are true empathisers have also the greatest capability for growth, and in the end undoing your own victimisation. The future is brighter than most people tend to believe.
Thank you. Years ago, I tried to warn one of my best friends about some reservations I had about his narcissistic partner. This fell on deaf ears. In fact, I was suddenly cut off from my friend for a few years, (the narcissist partner was controlling all of my friend's relationships) until he finally escaped fron the narcissist partner. We have since reconnected and are back to being great friends, but the stories he eventually told me about that relationship were truly horrific.
My narc ex husband put on a show in court and made up so many bad lies about me that when I tried to explain all the abuse to the judge I almost lost my kids for being mentally unstable. His performance in court was so good that I couldn’t believe my eyes, he looked like the most stable and sensible person and I looked like the crazy one. Terrible, still going through so much even after the divorce as he uses our son to manipulate me. He also threw me on the streets making me homeless and said he never thought I’d really leave the house. Insane! Thanks Dr, you are the only one who understands
After 46 years of being to an emotionality abusive, controlling, master manipulating narcissist, I can barely put a coherent sentence together when at the grocery store let alone before a judge!
I have not given up, that’s why I’m here.
Good luck to you 🙏
Be strong Paula. I am praying for your happiness. I have a similar past. During my divorce to my x narc husband, he did exactly the same thing, when I lost custody of my only daughter. He told the court that I tried to kill my child. And the judge believed in him. After a few months,I tried to counterattack, got visitation rights but one day he kidnapped my daughter,2 years old and left the state of California . I almost committed suicide, I became so weak and lifeless, only my church friends could console me. Long story short, my ex had a heart attack in Washington state where he was hiding, my daughter found him dead in the bathroom when she was 15. My x had remarried to another woman without finalizing our divorce, so it was poliggammy. The widow found my best friends telephone number in Los Angeles, called her, and left her phone number for me to contact her. I did call, and found out about his heart attack. I wasn't sad at all. I was happy he was gone. Relieved. Widow demanded that I help her pay off her debts and mortgage because my child was there. Crazy 🤣..... My child has psychological problems, I took counseling with her in Seattle, and I gave up on her due to many issues. She is an adult now, moved away from that State, and she is living well and only thing I can do is to pray 🙏 for her happinesses.❤😊😊
Sounds like there's a need for Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Training.
Yes a very good idea ...but the class will be empty as the culprits are not the self-reflecting types
I think that it’s Dr Ramani’s mission to educate people on this but it should be more mainstream. GP’s should be trained to recognise it along with other signs of mental distress. I have met people who have come out of terrible marriages who despite years of therapy are utterly unaware that they have endured years of narcissistic abuse. Having extricated themselves from hell they still have little concept of the nature of that hell. It might seem neither here nor there, now that they are out but absolute freedom from such hell requires a clear understanding of the reasons why one must never return. Someone who does not understand that their ex is a narcissist, is more vulnerable to being convinced to give the relationship another try ( get hoovered back) or to simply fall in love with another narcissist. You can’t run a “red flag” check on a prospective partner if you are not educated on what constitutes a “red flag”. Convincing someone of the virtue and necessity of “no contact” beyond contact that is absolutely necessary is near impossible when there is no grasp of the dangers of narcissism. I’ve met people who continue to have their lives made miserable by their ex because they cannot bring themselves to be so “cruel” as to cut them off. Perhaps it’s not just a lack of knowledge but a need for “permission” that can only come from a trusted source like a therapist. People don’t always trust that their friends are unbiased and often they are not, so they assume that a friend’s assessment of a ex might be exaggerated and best ignored. This is where the educated, unbiased voice needs to be heard clearly stating that narcissistic abuse has been endured and that radical acceptance is necessary to move on to a happier life.
@@juli_gotshal in Phoenix Arizona a friend of mine gives seminars to the Police and the various people who work in the courtrooms on narcissistic abuse/narcissistic personality disorder.
The promotion of narcissism is a Money Power Monopolists agenda, so they want to keep this topic out of the hive-mind.
@Gordon Fornow It is the Money Power. Establishment, Inc. psychologists do what they are paid to do. A real or archetypal Biblical interpretation is that the family-centric Money Power Monopolists are engineering narcissists as a "silent weapon" on "competing bloodlines.". The Biblical tie-in is that the fruits of narcissism appear to be the exact opposite of the Fruits of God's Spirit. As such, it would be reasonable to refer to it as "the spirit of the anti-Christ."
I have a theory as to how it is being engineered. Metallic iron filings were added to the food supply in 1941. This iron-induced oxidative stress depletes ceruloplasmin-bound copper, the enzyme that expresses as ferro-oxidase which, in turn, is responsible for managing iron safely in the body. This is a negative feedback loop. Over time, the toxic iron is driven deep.enough into the cells that it triggers NLRP3, an inflammazone protein called the "danger sensor" of the cell. Imagine fear emanating from inside your brain cells and/or inside your nervous system cells.
This "fear signal" becomes the default, and drives its victims to seek out pleasant "noise," aka, "supply.". They have no inner regulation, so they try and compensate by external regulation -- aka, their control freakism.
This toxic iron based denutrification and toxification agenda is what the Money Power Families call a "silent weapon" in their "quiet war" against the masses they desire to control.
Your co-dependent traits, especially looking for validation from the outside, hits home here. No one will believe you...you must become completely independent and self validating to get out. Self-love and respect is paramount.
Yup
Aho!
Yes! Codependents must learn to validate themselves, and trust their own gut feelings instead of depending on approval from others
AMEN!!
Controlling thoughts is telling others what they "must"
I made the enormous mistake of trying to do family therapy with my parents and brother. This woman actually held some sessions with the 3 of them and not me and actually believed the completely fictitious family narratives. It was devastating. She wouldn’t allow my husband (my only validating rock in this family) to participate. In the end, my parents went into discard mode with me (and then mom launched a smear campaign against me in the extended family) all in response to my “crimes” of simply wanting us to heal as a family. 😢
I pray that you can heal... sending you love and hugs
I went through similar only it was marriage counseling. Counselor never even considered CN. She just believed the narc. I was worse off for even seeking help. You do know the truth. In time, if you are NC, others will also. Your narc family will need another supply.
I am so sorry. In Bowenian therapy, what you describe yourself as is the scapegoat. Sadly, more families than not have them. No matter what you do, you will not likely get their approval or love. I am glad you have your husband. Focus on his love, keep the others at arm's length, and pray for them if you are spiritual. That's the best one can do in such a case. Praying you find peace in the midst of this and know your worth does not rest on people who have a distorted perspective of reality.
Its the same here. Do not worry. You tried too much. They just expressed their free will. Just go, leave them and live day by day..
😢
Such a powerful message!
I’ve dealt with narcissistic parents and 2 siblings my whole life. My parents are now deceased and I haven’t had contact with my older brother for years. I have tried to maintain a relationship with my sister until just recently, but have decided it’s just too much for me to deal with. I am 16 months older than her, and have always felt that I needed to be protective of her, since she’s always displayed a fragile self image. I’m beginning to realize this was just part of her control. She’s narcissistic/histrionic/borderline (not officially diagnosed because she will not get professional help).
She was married to an abusive openly racist klan member for 18 years until his death 2 years ago. He left her independently wealthy which has only increased her attitude of entitlement and arrogance.
I was diagnosed with an aggressive breast cancer just months after her husbands death and it was clear she was not capable of having empathy or the patience for me. She constantly made my illness about her. How hard it was for her and how much it was causing her anxiety. I was unable to work for over 10 months so she helped me pay some of my bills, she has thrown that in my face several times.
I am a single educated, professional woman, but I have not dated since my divorce six years ago. I mentioned a man to her (about six months before my breast cancer diagnosis) that I might be interested in dating at some point. I never called him, and didn’t think about him until she called me one evening (just weeks after my double mastectomy )and said she had reached out to him to ask him out for coffee. She literally did not know this man at all. Had never spoken to him, but decided she wanted to pursue him since I had once been interested in him. This was not even the straw that broke the camels back for me, even though it was extremely hurtful and insightful.
I continued my relationship with her for another year. She constantly uses me as her sounding board when she was upset, or having an anxious episode. Many times she would resort to abusive language and blaming me for her own feelings of inadequacy.
I decided a few weeks ago to cut ties with her. It feels like a death, But also a relief.
She has two grown children. Her daughter, the oldest decided to cut ties with her a couple of years ago. The whole thing just makes me very sad and hurt.
I know I’m rambling, but this is the first time I have gotten it out of my system.
wow... speechless
You will feel alot better! No contact is a God send for your own head! Sometime you just have to get the broom out and sweep the porch.
It will get better! 👍
@LivingCoastalKat thank you so much for sharing your story. I will be praying for you! Having parents and siblings with this mental disorder is tough. Your sister sounds a lot like my sister. We can pray together for them.
Thank-you for your story/insights. It is very true - without wanting to appear arrogant or grandiose... the more evolved have to endure the disappointing and painful realisations of peoples/family members lesser levels of awareness, and lack of objective care factor for our fellow men... 💗🕊🙏
People who have not experienced NPD Abuse confuse Narcissism with Vanity. They don't get it.
What outsiders don't realize is that you have been the target of a sadistic person that's pretending to be an empath in public.
@@pegasus5148 Sometimes you can't know which of the two faces is the real one. The Mask slips.....
That's what I used to think narcissism was... until I really learned and realized I was living with a narcissist. And while appearance is highly important, it's only a small part of a big mess.
YES! Society uses it way too much for people who “take too many selfies” or are “focused on their looks”. It’s damaging because that does not mean someone is a narcissist and for the people who actually are, people just think it means they take a lot of selfies. 🙄
Those of us who have endured narcissistic abuse are the ones who TRULY get it. It’s a hard concept to convey to the common person.
I took my mother to a therapist to 'work on our relationship' and she played my therapist like a fiddle. It was horrifying and terrifying to see how easily she ran over her. That's when I realized no contact was the only answer.
I dragged my narc to therapy with me twice (two different therapists). I ended after one session when I saw how he was playing them. He was probably overjoyed not to have to go back. I will never do that again.
They then use that moment for the rest of their days. “The therapist even told you...”
Don't even know you, yet I'm proud of you!
Same here with my husband with three therapists
@@annemccarron2281 Thanks!
I have found calling out any personality disorder behavior in anyone to a group brings this: they don’t want to talk about it, they just want to ignore it and do the task at hand, or keep things light and not deal with it,ignore it, “why are you tipping the boat? Leave it alone.” Else be banished from the group. I found the only way that this works is if you tell somebody very very close to you, in private.
I am divorced because of her abuse and have two adult children, my daughter has recently had no contact for two years with her mother. My son has been brought to tears by her duplicitous conduct. When they were young I tried the best I could to protect them from this toxic behavior. As adults they were confused as to what was going on with their mother and their questions were simple to explain. Through their own research they now, for the first time, have an answer.Thank you Dr Ramani.
They dismiss you as sensitive, overly dramatic, or even toxic and make excuses for them. They come across calm and reasonable and because the victim experiences trauma...we come across crazy and erratic or not able to "let go" or move on. Which people don't understand may not be that easy Financially, ptsd, etc.
So true...his mom kept telling my parents that your daughter is so sensitive
My sister is the narc and she has made me the one that everyone around her loves to hate. I decided it doesn't matter if everyone hates me due to her lies. I also know the truth, because she's always the victim and the one everyone should feel sorry for. If someone says anything nice about me she immediately starts acting like im horrible and she's terrified of me. It's so ridiculous.
Yes, I agree. You can observe and not get involved in your heart. Love, do not change your beautiful self, because that is their food, when you act as insanely as they do, it only hurts you, they feed off that... some kind of sickness they have. NEVER forget who you are.
This perfectly describes my husband and how he turned my friends against me.
@Krishna Patel I am from India as well...if you read my comment it’s the same thing. But I think what you are talking about has nothing to do with narcissism...my mother in law was manipulating / gas lighting me and my parents and making me feel like there is something wrong with me and not her
“They had such a bad childhood”
“They don’t actually mean it.”
“They gave you so much.”
“They do care about you.”
“But they’re so great/kind/giving/hardworking”
@@sunshinegirl4715 - I actually called my ex out to my mom..... she gets it. He is such an emotionally shallow person it's rather obvious. It is now. I've been gaslighting MYSELF about him for over 30 years. I am really fucked up about it. I didn't realize how much power I had given to him over my psychological well being.
Damn. I'm really starting to realize it now. I used to be a really psychologically healthy person. Now, I am a mere ghost of what I was. Because he emotionally neglected me - and I allowed THAT to turn my self-esteem into mush. It wasn't just the emotional neglect - it was the abject lack of compassion. Like I was a total inconvenience.
He acted like he had zero empathy - he didn't give a shit.
Of course he kept his mask on until we were well into our marriage.
This person I've known for over 30 years - who the fuck is he??
I have NO idea. My mother adores him.
That's ok.
I'm not going to upset their relationship.
I AM going to change my relationship with MYSELF.
I am going to HEAL my trauma.
ALL OF IT.
Yeah, just let the crap happen to them for 5 minutes, then hear them sing a different tune.
Systematic brainwashing like a cult with the threat of banishment and ostracism if you dare question, complain or flash a mirror.
they never work hard they always let people do it and those ' flying monekys'. will nb tell you that, its bizarre!
Emily Nicole oh, you knew my mother? 🙃😂
I pointed it out to a group I belong to. I simply remarked that it's a big red flag when someone comes among you who requires constantly to be the center of attention, controls everything and everyone, lets you know how special they are, flatters you, and tries too hard to ingratiate himself or herself with you. I never used the word "narcissist" and I never made any accusations. I specifically said I didn't KNOW anything for sure (and I didn't) but we must all be cautious.
As the narcissist in question wasn't very skilled at playing the game (no subtlety), and as this group was pretty down-to-earth, everybody could see something was amiss. They all were wary. Nobody fell victim and before very long, the narcissist disappeared.
That little replay spike at 13:00 when she talks about not calling out narcissists in the workplace made me smile with bittersweet validation lol. So many of us out here being mentally thrashed by these people in positions of power that we have little recourse against because they've cemented themselves as golden geese and thus untouchable as far as the company is concerned. My only hope is that these companies rot from the inside out as they rightfully should when they've let too many foxes into the hen house.
When there are only enablers around narcissists it is useless to point anything out. No one is so deaf and blind as someone who wants to be.
Exactly, especially when they take on the narcissists traits.
SO true
So true.
This was my family growing up. But now everyone sees what I saw the entire time. It's relieving and frustrating all at once.
@@thewellsianpodcast OMG. Yes. I remember a time when we all young that my two siblings were good people willing to defy our parents. In their early 20s they were at fork in the road where they could have separated from our parents, but they chose to stay tethered to them. Then as the years went by they became more and more like them and turned into really awful people. It's sad. Being hooked in to narcs is like a poison.
My mother was a narcissist. Everyone loved her and accused me of being a thankless child when I tried to tell. She was a master manipulator and had them all fooled.
Same... Do people see their true colours?
I’ve found the best way to deal w my mother is to not engage. No matter what she says, no matter what buttons she pushes, I just grit my teeth and take her emotional grenades. I remind myself that not only am I an adult, I’m an old adult and I don’t have to take her crap anymore. Admittedly, I still get guilted into doing things from time to time - she’s had years to hone her craft, so I’m not impervious to all of her arrows - but for the most part, I’ve done an okay job of keeping the wolf at bay ( no offense, sweet wolves). All I can do now is continue to stay strong. All of this will be over one day, so for now, I just try to be as happy as I can. Like Dr. Ramani said, you can’t explain to people what you’re going through. Just find ways to adapt and adjust.
Oh wow same here.. how difficult . Thank you so much ❤️
Mine too. A few get it and I’m always surprised. An acquaintance of hers asked her at church, “what kind of tricks are you up too.” I was so surprised. I’ve know this lady since childhood and she saw how emotionally crippled I was as a result of the mean nasty abuse I suffered. At that time I was still in contact going grey rock, but man did she nail me a few times. She’s so good at getting your guard down, then flipping that switch when no one is around.
@@depnewshound I did that " game " for YEAR'S!!! Until it just wasn't enough for Narcissist Mother. Im thee Eldest of 4 * only Child that Ever stayed serving Jesus. .My other Sibs refuse to even believe in GOD..She still insisted on poking the BEAR 🐻 Me..lol ..It was over Trumpism. I of course against. Chose to never discuss because it was her Ultimate Control Freak Out With Me NOT BEING A TRUMPEE!!! NEVER TRUMPER...HELL NO!! She Actually came in My 🏡WAVING that EVANGELICAL Finger in my Face stating, demanding, " IF YOU DONT VOTE FOR TRUMP ; YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE ABORTED BABIES " That's not even BIBLICAL...I simply
answered yet again: Give Me ONE Scripture that says Anything about Trumpism is BIBLICAL, GODLY or Jesus messages of LOVE, KINDNESS, FORGIVENESS, REDEMPTION? Again She just got angry 😠😡 and Stormed off..My father, sitting there ( thee 57 year Enabler of my Lifetime) Dismissed Me for the Final Time...I'm sure to save His Ass..He knows his wife's problems 🙄. She's never going ✋ Bugging Me & Respect My Adult Life & Choices. He doesn't Agree either, but Gave up , gave into to her year's ago.... He asked Me, " IF I can't or won't support Trump with Us; why Am I or Do I bother 🤔 coming by to see them? " WOW!!! 😳 I had just stopped by to bring them their favorite hot dinner??? So I said : " Because I'm your daughter and I love you, I'm trying to be an Obedient daughter by God's word, His Grace, and Actually tried rising above your major hypocrisy in being A Pastor etc. And now Supporting this and the party sporting everything opposite?? Everything opposite that's in that Bible rt next to You, That you used give me physical and emotional beatings over because I was such a SINNER??? over & over from childhood to now?? To represent JESUS CHRIST IN MY LIFE, NOT A CHURCH RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION. ..Oh Well, I gave this my best & most Obedient shot before God, My Therapist and Self..Thanks for Releasing Me...It's been 2 years now. They've made Absolutely No contact with Me. ( not the 1st time she's done thee abandoning & return lol just longest .y entire Lifetime, 2-6 months at a time) My Mother has Also now, hoovered & gaslight all 4 of my daughter's..All Adults, whom have experienced her abuse when younger & as Adults with their own husband's and children 😰 . Now, All sucked in under her spell...Along with the innocence of My grandchildren for this horrendously scary ride They Are Old Enough and Know All the Key player's & Truth's. They've even countered LIES!!!! Sad for future for their parents to Explain later??
They All even Attempted to have Me Put into A County Mental Crisis Center on 51/50.; Pretended to come & help " pack up the house " on my final week before being illegally Evicted during COVID MEMORANDIUM This past Aug June 2021---" Social Worker's Just showed Up at My 🚪Door ? 🤦♀️🤷♀️ 😆 lol Stood My Ground, And they All got Scolded instead 😉 For Abandoning their Sick & Dieing Mother, No Alcohol, No Drug's, Only sick with RARE bacterium infection and Normal Medical history of Multiple SCLEROSIS plus+...I overcame All with NO / QUIT BIG PHARMA, ALL NATURAL, CLEAN EATING EXCERSIZE PT, After Covid in 2020 ( from estranged husband ) Down but not out...I'm a fighter & very self disciplined..An other main reason I Annoyed them//////// All..I put My Pastor on Speaker cellphone, 🔊 Confronted Him, Reminded Him, I Signed A Dr Pt Confidentiality agreement, 1st off professionally broke thee Ethics law..Speaking behind my back before even checking on Me? 2nd, his pitiful excuses lol, He didn't have my address 🤣 or Covid restrictions, I countered with, DUH? ADDRESS? YOU RECEIVED MY MONIES OK Every Week? YOU'VE BEEN TRAVELING TO SAN BERNADINO TO ANOTHER CHURCH ⛪FOR " MINISTRY " ???
PLEASE, I had already withdrew my auto tithe and he/you knew I was moving out of area...I called you out, You're not used to being Challenged...How dare you beyray Me because of your Bruised Ego...Don't Ever Allow A Freind/ Therapist/ Anyone discount what you've been through or are currently going through. ...He began using Word vomit, like, I don't know your old man, your mom, etc? This After 6 years? Whatever. All darkness will be brought to light. I knew it was going to be a battle getting finally Freed. ..But Now 3 months Moved and Settled I've NEVER BEEN MORE PEACEFUL AND JOYFUL IN MY LIFETIME. Sorry to say, Even having My children. ..Everyone has completely sucked Me Dry. I'm not Angry or Upset any longer. Just an Empty void where tat Love 💘 once was?? None of them Call, the grandkids are under control...One grandson got an email, so we Google Duo. ..I poured Out my love and wreckless over helping...Hindsight My own fault. Never thought Millennial & Generation Z would just continue with their hands ✋out..And We're supposed to be seen not heard, out of sight etc..Our generation was the Last that cared About thee Elders. Respect is A Must..American people lost this concept 50 year's Ago, Especially Thee EVANGELICAL Christian .this
MY Family members and Pastor trying to Use Me/ MY being PISSED OFF 😤 & EMPATHY TAMARA BLEW HER LID...Due to Betrayals over All of thee Above...vs Being Suicidal. ...You'd have to lock up most of the country 🤣 This is the 2nd time My folk's have put me away as an adult. My story is coming. ...As a Narcissist Mother She always assumed I was gossiping behind her back etc. I learned what she was 20 years ago..Dx by Psychiatrist and Psychologist. That's how I even survived these year's. Her & my father came in for the " family group session " 20 years ago...She did herself in per usual 🙄..I tried warning my dr.s..lol She came in Witcher Adgenda and was not going to held responsible for anything Me? The dr.s hadn't even said word one yet? She went on for 45min. Then stood up & said " that's it, c'mon Steven we're leaving " ....My dr.s 😯😳😩 Avised Me, Well 1st Apologies galore 😅..Then Mone on Away from her...Major NPD ( did I mention they threatened keeping my children & stealing $10,000. From my Account out of my new settlement money, which I had just had surgery last knee from fracture working for Extra cash 💸 Costco. So Apparently I was Addicted to Vicodin...My leg was in an Actual vice machine post op to keep it moving....They took all my meds, Multiple SCLEROSIS, migraines, sleeping pills, etc...The Dr.s and Management of program helped me to stopp further withdrawal from my account. After that, She took it out on my youngest 4 yr old daughter. .Cut off all her beautiful long curls to a pixy ✂️CUT ??? WHO DOES THIS???? 20+ Years Full Circle 🔵..FREEDOM IS FANTASTIC!!!!!
I LOVE BEING VALIDATED!!!! 💘 Move On, No Contact, Bless them 🙏, Forgive them, But Reconciliation is not Up too You...I've been Free, Moved Away with help fro Only 2 long time friend's...Betrayals
from Almost ex - Husband , Adult daughters and Parents, oh did I mention even the Pastor of my church whom also has a PhD in Psychology, & practice, whom I begged My family members to have A GROUP session...No One was interested? Even the Pastor used Me & mistaked my kindness for Weakness and Uneducated..Sent Me thing's to post on PM or text against Trump b/c tech. Legally he can't b/c he could lose his tax exempt status / church etc..but when push came to CRAZY...He agreed to side with my family whom he DIDN'T KNOW?? Why?? A couple reasons, but it boils down to Accountability and Responsibility. He refused to take either on several occasions that He created. Like asking if I can help out young woman in our church...long story short,
It was All a very well played manipulated plan by the young woman and her " New boyfriend 👏" Whom turned out to be on parole
for felony murder. He said " it was 18 yrs ago for drug's
" YES, LIED THEIR WAY INTO MY HOME 🏡 for FREE!!! Then My Pastor says Leave Me Outta of It " I kicked her out by the 1st weekend. Found out, a couple weeks later, The young girl 34, was already 6wks pregnant 🤰👫 This Young Woman and her New Boyfriend ( whom I already set house Rule's- NO MEN EVER) The 1st weekend, The boyfriend/ now fiancee? Was camped 🏕 out in my home the very first weekend???? Gimme a break Already...People Always take My EMPATHY * KINDNESS for Weakness...HUGE MISTAKE!!!! So when I called out the my Pastor's irresponsible behavior, In helping poor Ashley & putting
Me while sick , Alone at Risk???? . I know I caused a narc injury...Even though he may not be a narc..But He has been put on A Pedastal for Years As A Psychologist for criminal cases and as A Pastor...So most People worship him with No questions asked? I learned many year's ago, to question Anything & everything that doesn't fit/ make sense? Praxis vs Practice. ...Thank's for Keeping Us Informed and Straight. Love your Brain 🧠❤
I would say to Dr.Ramani that her videos provide clarity to victims to confirm that they are victims and what is happening to them is real.
The self doubt which victims have which they do not share out of fear and no one will understand.
This is the glass wall that separates you from those on the outside who see your anxiety and not the cause.
More than likely you get called out for not fighting back against the perpetrator unless in the workplace. That is very dangerous to confront a narcissist at any time. I have experienced both personal and work narcissists. They will harass you viciously if they think no one is watching. Talking about is dangerous for the reasons Dr. Ramani says.
When they realize that they can't manipulate you any more they tell everyone that you are the self-centered narcissist...
100% truth
or batshit crazy, quite laughable really
How can people be so gullible and believe an ass kisser over someone they have known their whole lives? I think the world is full of insecure people who will basically sell their soul to the devil for a little bit of flattery.
My narc once said “you can’t bullshit a bullshitter.” That was early on but I saw it over and over. She recently passed away from cancer. I had confided in one person, aside from my husband, in all 12 years of dealing with her. I was aware it made it back to her when one day she nonchalantly said, “can u imagine resenting someone who has cancer?” Totally changed it around and played the victim with the “cancer card” she admittedly used when it served her. Now she’s gone and forever immortalized. My only comfort is God knows all of this and eventually it will be made right.
Made the mistake of telling her I think I have inverted narcism from pleasing my mom. She probably didn't even look it up and went oh yeah that makes sense, you're the narcissist and I'm the victim.
Hurtful when friends and family abandon you when you realise you're in the web of a spider.
Been there done that..discard people that fail to see you ...I do not talk to any of my family
It's fine by me,,I'm happier..trust me so will you....
I can see how it is hurtful, but try reframing that hurt. Don't let it get to you, don't take it personally.
Also, what would be your intentions when you want to make your environment aware of the narcissist? Is it because you feel you need to protect them from the narcissist? Or is it because you feel the need to be validated? In case of the first: You could say you need to 'up your game'. In case of the second: Your pain IS valid. Ultimately you only need yourself for validation.
If you want to 'up your game', you may want to think more long term. But be aware, it is a dangerous game as Dr. Ramani pointed out.
Yes
There isn’t anything they can do. They can’t tell you to leave. You’ll do what you want to.
Hiker Hobby I don’t think she is expecting them to rescue her necessary it’s more like don’t disown her or ostracize her.
I watched this video again, to re-enforce what I knew and learned. Dr. Ramani is excellent at putting it all together so clearly and succinctly. Yes, the bottom line is, one cannot call out the narcissist; they're masters at manipulation, Gas lighting and gift of gab. They control the stage, power, dominance and feel entitled, where honest people cannot compete. 09/23
Ok, I’ll share. When I finally figured out my ex was a (un-diagnosed) narc, I tried to convince others around me. It back fired big time. Almost everybody was so infatuated with her few people believed me and it made me look like I was the problem. Even my family. The only plus side was I learned who my friends really were. It did force me to look inward and discover a bit about myself and why I let someone treat me so badly. I don’t hate her bec@use she was just acting in a manner she had grown up with. Having said that it also made me rethink the kind of person I wanted to be with. Bottom line is if you lack empathy for others no matter how much you try to fake it you are not for me. Thanks for providing a space for me to vent.
Co-signed!
"Self-preservation makes a bigger statement then calling the narcissist out."
THIS part. I had to make this decision, despite the hardship of the narc trashing me after I told her off. I lost all respect for the jerks who believed her. They don't know she wears three faces. I wear one, and I'm nobody's charmer. Come real, or go home.
Yup. I learned this the hard way and taught my child.
@@Jabberwalky42 This resonates so much with me. You have my respect and admiration for recognising so clearly how the enablers work. In my experience I resent them more.
Yes!
Most people won't believe anything you say about another person unless they personally have experienced it. Or maybe they just don't care unless it touches them personally. I think this mindset is partially responsible for many people's lack of caring about many injustices and abuse in the world. They have become so self- centered that they just don't care about other people.
And/or, they simply don't have the incentive and energy to expend to try to fully comprehend. If it's out of their range of personal experience and they are struggling to keep up with their own lives and responsibilities, they won't have the capacity to do everything it takes to really understand. I think there is a difference between being callously self-centered and uncaring -without empathy for others, and instead, being overwhelmed enough that people don't have the wherewithal to contemplate issues they can't recognize as detrimental to everyone. Compounding that is the issue that so many people feel powerless to create any change in what is detracting from the common weal.
But for some reason people believe everything the narc says about you :(
@@sparkythancztwise when I care about someone I get energy to do the things that are not exactly my pass time because I want them to be happy she is not saying you're an unempathetic psychopath she is saying that you get wrapped up in caring about yourself so much that you think it's fine to not do that daunting task that could make the person you care abouts life better we get busy life gets hard it's harder to do those things for people you're tired of using your energy but if you care about them you'll be there for this it's narcissistic abuse not a random favor it can effect someone's life immensely
It's an inconvenience for them if they even try to listen. In essence, they're calling you a liar. And It's petty much they don't care about you that much to even consider you're not lying. When you do not have a habit of lying and your word is good, it would seem that you'd be believed, but I've found that only REAL friends will believe.
On the bright side, we might use this to "make lemonade" to weed out our friends and family.
Right Miss Nancy : no justice , no compassion from our family member. I had to feel it on myself ; this sad truth about it. My mother, didnt want to take me serious, when I told her, that my ex used to insult me. Her response : " oh, but he's so nice and helps you. " it's like she purposely ignored my call for help. The same response I got from brother's girlfriend .
Today my husband & I discovered you. I've learned my mother, half bro and sister are Narcissists. I'm the youngest target. My husband had a narcissistic father. You validate what we have experienced. I describe my childhood as being in a Nazi prison camp then coming out as an adult but my life experiences as a child. I was in counseling for 30+ years. My security but none told me about Narcissists. In my family it was generational. Thanks for saying we are heroes! Now if someone wants to know what our child hood was like we will direct them to your videos. Others don't understand this evil. Since we are getting educated, we are getting power to not get into ugly relationships like we did in our past. I'm grateful this evil didn't stick to my husband or me. Thank you for shining light into darkness!!
I always refer to my dad as a perverted kidnapper slave driver
Can confirm. After being psychologically bullied by a narcissist colleague and having two months off work on mental health leave, my reports to management were met with a luke warm response. She was simply told to “pull her head in”, kept her position, and I was reassigned to a different team. Now she has found a new victim.
It was like those films where you feel like you've been wrongly placed in a mental asylum and everyone is telling you your crazy but you KNOW that you are NOT. When I left my ex it was an overwhelming physical feeling, like I was coming out of water I had been drowning in. I hope more people can recognize the signs of this abuse and relief themselves of such a numbingly hollow life.
Rebecca Sargeant,You got a lovely smile
The only people who ever 'got it' were people who had made experiences with narcissists themselves.
True!!!
Not always the case. Saw a video where thats 50% of the problem when victims still feel theyre in the abuse so they project it. Happened to me. Got in touch with a highschool friend who got out of a manipulative relationship and we seemingly clicked, but he ended up siding with my narc ex and helped him with his smear campaign. What a life
@@andjelavuckovic8103 maybe your friend was still gaslighting herself after the abuse and so sided with the abuser. What I mean is that people who have never experienced psychological or emotional abuse don't understand what's so bad about it. If you describe the instances they often look at you like you're making a big deal out of nothing. It is very hard to explain to people who never lived it and even then the abused people might still be damaged from that experience and react unexpectedly
Perfect cherry on top 🍒
“You can’t train people out of their personality”
That hit home and gave me a lot of freedom to help in my healing. Forever grateful ❤
This is such an important knowledge these days, that it feels like I searched it all my life. Am I the only one who thinks that?
When I try to explain what is happening in my house, people don't get it. It's just too insane to imagine if you haven't dealt with it.
Because it's so irrational. They go "why would some one do that?" They're narcissists there's no why!!
It's like telling people your spouse is a werwolf.
I believed my friend about her husband. Many times she vented to me, but once he started zoning in on me everytime we hung out, she started gaslighting me and joining him in attacking my character and mocking me for being disturbed by his violent/aggressive behavior. I thought she'd get how upsetting his behavior can be, but in fact she excuses it and invalidated me. I was wrong for thinking she could empathize with me as I did for her. It breaks my heart that she is Team Narcissist even though he's been abusive and cruel to her, their kids, and even her own sister. Her identity is set. Even though he threatens to divorce her often and tries to intimidate her, she's very much on his team. I'm going to miss my friend, but I don't miss her scolding me for being "intolerant" and "not nice" in response to him cornering me and "jokingly" threatening me with a knife.
@@t.c.494 Dracula clothed as an angel.
@@FiercelyGold your friend has Stockholm Syndrome. You have feelings for your abuser as a coping strategy. And if the abuser feels 'loved' the abuse is less often & therefore more manageable for the victim. Thats why so many DV victims find it so hard to leave: they think they love their abuser.
Hollywood doesn’t help with its tales of redemption - it makes people believe that all you’ve got to do is melt someone’s heart and they’ll change. What if they haven’t got a heart?
One 30 second conversation and everything about them changes for the better
@Dawn Green Would you mind explaining your comment? A friend of mine is married to a narcissist who presents her sweet she's-such-a nice-person persona to her church friends with her bogus religiosity backing her up and then verbally assaults her husband, demeans him and calls him an asshole at home, twisting simple things he has said into gigantic thermonuclear tirades, leaving him utterly bewildered. I was married to that type myself years ago and i know exactly what he is going through. She plays the victim ands makes everything wrong in their horrible marriage to be his fault, all the while playing the innocent, abused Christian wife. I know for a fact he is a kind and gentle man who is well known and loved in our industry and would not hurt a fly and is a true Christian man.
@@paxrail because Dawn Green hasn’t got back to you, I’ll have a go. I think she meant that Christian religious institutions behave as if the second you “surrender to Jesus” you are healed and all evil behaviour is gone. Narcissism is an endemic pattern in the wiring of the brain which started in infancy and CANNOT be changed, or treat, or therapised out of somebody. There is no treatment. In my experience churches are full of narcissists and people who are too sweet and gentle to see it or to realise it can’t be changed. It sounds as if the Christian gentleman who is your friend is one of the latter. You need to try to explain it to him, and if he still believes baptism can cure everything, then advise him to hold the Narcs under for five minutes. That’s the only way to cure them - return them to Jesus.
HOLLYWOOD is ALL smoke n mirrors and frankly, TOTAL B.S. . Babylon of filth n lies n deception.
Believing "everyone deserves a second chance" is so damaging.
When I confided in someone who I thought was my “best friend” about the emotional, mental and sometimes physical abuse I was experiencing she said to me “I am friends with both of you” even though he had made inappropriate sexual advances towards her. I was devastated. it was a painful lesson I needed to learn.
Thank you for your insight. You have helped me more than you know.🤗
What has helped me is getting a domestic violence advocate. It was hard to admit to myself that domestic violence and manipulation is what I was going through.
This is so true!!! I even played some recordings I made in secret of the horrible verbal and emotional abuse tactics, people who have been fooled by his behavior in their presence say well everyone fights and argues😒 They completely overlooked and ignored how horrible and hateful the comments were. I got no support from anybody except the couples therapist during my initial individual meeting. I played only the beginning of one of the recordings and she quickly turned it off, looked at me and said you are not here for trying to save your relationship, you are here to have what is happening to you validated. I broke down and sobbed, finally someone clearly understood what was happening to me in secret.
I don't think they'll receive it the same unless they've had a bad experience with a narcissist. Otherwise they'll look at you like something is wrong with you 😆
SO DAMN TRUE!!!! THEY WILL LOOK AT YOU LIKE YR THE PROBLEM.
Even if they have a bad experience with a narcissist, that doesn't always mean they won't fall prey to another one. My best friend of 25 years, his mother was a grandiose narc, has just fallen prey to a woman who is a covert narc. I tried to warn him, as I am a Narc survivor twice over as well, but he shut me out. He is now in full enabler mode. My heart is broken.
ErikisOfficial‼ for years I didn’t know anything about cycles of abuse, codependency and personality disorders. Many people are not aware of mental health issues and how much they play into society.
And not to mention the fact that many are ENABLERS! So they're well practiced at excusing narcissistic behaviors.
Nobody will believe you
No, there is no such way. Other people will believe YOU are the narcissist for bad mouthing your partner.
Core Not to mention a little nuts. What I mean is, people WILL look at you funny.
I had this happen. Someone tried to warn me about their spouse being a narc when we first met, the very first day actually.
They looked crazy to me, and I thought they were drunk/on something.
(My thought process at the time: "If this person is so horrible, practically evil, and as bad as you say, then why are you still with them?? Why would you stay??" You can't say that to a stranger though, and the spouse was SUPER nice to me at the time)
Flash forward 1 year and they were right.
@@specialtwice4975 did you ever apologize for your invalidation of your friend?
@@specialtwice4975 Yeah as SSS said, did you get down on your damn knees and beg forgiveness for not even looking into it. Now you know how we suffer.
SSS🌙 Well actually I was friends with the narc, after that first day I didn't talk to the husband anymore. (Cause he sounded crazy, like completely nuts, off the deep end, etc)
She then gaslighted/triangulated/word salad me (didn't know what it was at the time) and told me her spouse was the abusive one (with crocodile tears) and not to believe him, so I didn't.
I mean, he sounded CRAZY when he talked to me that day. Like, completely nuts. It was 100% unbelievable.
So no, I didn't apologize right away, only after I had cut contact with both of them and started learning about narcissists did I send a quick apology.
@@specialtwice4975 30 years ago nobody knew what narcs were. I would always be freaked out about what was going on in my marriage. People just said, get a divorce. So I tried but they didn't care that I was being stalked by him and my life was being sabotaged by him. They didn't believe the abuse was still going on. He just did a smear campaign and said I was crazy and on drugs. They felt sorry for him for having to deal with me. Today we call it going no contact. Back then it was my survival instincts that made me just walk away from it all. I had to go no contact with him and everybody I knew and move away and not tell anybody where I was. I had to disappear. You dont know what it is like unless you live through it. Years and years later a family member found out where I was and tried to reconnect. No way. I could never go back to that kind of life. The narcs never change. They will only ruin your life again if you give them the chance. Going no contact and staying no contact is the only way.
I went grey rock. My brother eventually called me in distress. I asked him how do you explain our narc sibling? He could not because he could not believe her behaviour. I told him I believed him. We are now healing our relationship. Still terribly sad for our sister who never really grew up.
Abuse is not love. And denial won't fix anything.
When people are wired in their brains to not listen to what you have to say, then don't say anything at all.
No response is the best response.
I managed to get a narc bully fired on grounds of harassment. I'm still proud of it, would do it again
Please Tell me what happened with the situation and how you were able to convince other people to see!!
Documentation is probably how you did it?
Impressive.
Congratulations
Really? I tried same and it totally backfired on me. Management thought I was nuts
Some even stay silent because it's too exhausting to try and try and try to get people to understand. 13 years silent
Got yourself informed and call the narcissist out , again and again and wear them down...all you have got to lose is the narcissist...no loss there.
People don't understand the depth of hurt or psychological trauma one go through . Many of them say that if they are behaving like a kid ,you act maturely . I am too exhausted . Pain to be endured everyday ,with no solution
@J H my sibs can’t see it either. No one died, but I have mourned the death of a brother I never had, a mother that I did have until it was time to leave home, and a sister who has lost her soul to this. It’s a lot of grieving! And it is unlikely they will ever understand. 1 1/2 years no contact/gray rock.
My experience was I was looked at in the most peculiar way, I felt misunderstood. The subject of the narc never comes up in conversation, it's a lonely place to be... thats why I have joined these communities because so many of us know what its like and understand.
With my ex I once recorded him with my phone without him knowing while he was screaming at me, and sent to all my friends and family when we broke up. I also sent it to his father. They couldn't believe what they could hear. It helped me get a lot of help from to get back on my feet, but if it wasn't for that recording nobody would have known the truth.
Good on you - great advice
I wish I'd recorded my Mother. The screeching, puce faced, foot stamping hysteria while I calmly & quietly collected some stuff I'd left behind when I moved out, was truly unhinged. I didn't react but she just got louder & more hysterical. She crossed a line that day. I went NC & haven't looked back, despite the nasty letters she wrote afterward.
@@sarahholland2600 I recorded my mother the other day screaming her head off like a mad woman to my dad which went on for over an hour. She acts soo innocent with others. My relative said she's peaceful LOL
Ima try that with my rents, bet, ty ty. I have other semi-narc communal folks in the fam, and I can essentially make a smoke bomb out of their and my rents’ ego squabbles and yeet outta there lol
@@sarahholland2600 yeah, had a few of those with my parents, then it turns into an Italian film noir when my parents dramatically compete to look like they’re the hero parents in a fight.
They were so extreme for so long, the very definition of “extra” but to a profoundly startling degree, and I never even saw anything wrong for years. I just want to escape them, they have periscopes everywhere bruh.
My son told me when he took a college psych course "dad's a narcissist." Learning all we can protects us somewhat. Education is empowering.
@hani hani don't. It's a fairy tale. Take the reins in your own hands - trust and love yourself. Be your own best friend.
You are SO right. One person started getting irritated and i found out the narc had already gotten to this person and pretty much turned them against me. Been called a complainer and I'm blowing things out of proportion. Finally started recording. :) can't argue with a recording /video. Get police reports when at all appropriate, which is every time they do something illegal.
I'm shocked that mental health isn't required from 6th through 12th grade. There is literally so much information to learn. If we learn about mental health and disorders, etc and how to avoid all the pitfalls, we could literally save ourselves decades of trauma.
Hani hani How can we trust in God? We need the Supernatural to change the natural. The question is: How can we not trust in God. Baby: A fairy tale did not heal me, encourage me deliver me, love me save me, gave me favor, endued me with power. A fairy tail does not walk with me, lead guide and direct me. God hate evil and He loves you. Get back to Ephesians, this will ground you.
Oh . . . And a fairy tail does NOT give me the Victory. Count the times when God came through for you-He has not changed.
One person "getting it" is so true. My covert narcissist soon-to-be ex-husband is SO charming and funny until he drops his mask. I shared with my brothers and sister-in-law about his narcissism. Both said, "What's that?" and I had to explain. As I did so, my sister-in-law knew and pointed out traits her Mom experienced with her ex. It was very validating! I had shared that he's one way with others and another with me. It was a therapist that told me he was gaslighting and blameshifting. Now, I call him out on it. I also question his words. Just yesterday, he said to me "Why are you questioning my words and what I say?" You never did that before. Then he insinuated the therapist was behind it. He doesn't think what he does is emotional abuse and that it's not that "horrific" (his words).
Dr. Ramani is so right about the power of more than one person seeing a narcissist for who they are. I had a very narcissist coworker who was new to the company. Speaking to one of our directors about the narcissist, I learned that I was not alone in noticing their toxicity. We were then able to quickly convince management to fire them. It was a very eye opening experience. Talk to your coworkers about the issues you see and hope they recognize toxicity when they see it.
I remember enduring narcissistic rage as a kid with my mother and then my phone would ring and she would answer like a totally different person sweet and wonderful. Two-faced that’s what narcissist are two-faced lying cowards! Thank you
Actually I think that's pretty common...
Been there. Know the feeling. A body could be in the trunk and she is cool as a morning breeze. Then turn toward you and all hell breaks loose.
Mine was the same. That was how I realised that this is deliberate abusive behaviour.
Omg, YES!!! That's my mother exactly!!! That fake voice makes me want to puke!
I find that most people don’t know what a narcissist is, especially a covert narcissist, I come across as crazy 😢
Same here... wish there was more awareness about true narcissism!
Sorry sister, I experience the narcissist as I pay close attention. it is strange the way they behave and try to lead you into their crazy traps so that they can abuse and berate....
Me too smh
The covert ones, imho, do the most damage as:
1. They talk behind your back in order to isolate and harm you
2. If you’ve suffered this you realize that you can not warn others about them without making yourself indistinguishable from the very type of abuse they’ve done to you
@@redlinered_rt6174 its a personality dissorder. its not the character.
I'm one of those who stayed quiet for many years. I have a narcissistic mother. I tent to attract them WITHOUT knowing. Serious prayers and fasting is helping me heal.
Provide your body with proper nutrition. Eat or drink the colors of the rainbow every day. 💕
Focus on the traits of the Narcissistic personality in discussion and never use the word Narcissist. Be patient (so hard for us who clearly see) and over time people will see for themselves (maybe). Regardless you have the super power of Narcissistic Detection and you can quietly amuse yourself with this power and clarity. Try to distance yourself if you can.
Yes, abandonment and betrayal blindness needs to surface and be healed in this process. I was in denial, having disocciated from all the trauma (that began when I was 3) until a few years ago when all the memories surfaced. OMG.
What a journey.
I can't wait to see what the next chapter will bring with all the new knowing.
Thanks for your illuminating video.
I basically live streamed his last tirade to his flying monkeys, it's been the quietest week in three years.
Wow!!!! How brilliant 🤭🔥🙏🏼
How did you conceal from him that you were recording him??!!
@@sckendall28 just audio
@@maryalicebrooks7224 did the same thing. Just audio, had my cell phone recording in my pocket. Played it for the therapist.
Good job! A little revenge is so sweet.
When you've been abused by a narcissist, you might feel like you have to convince people of your own experience, instead of just sharing it. But that makes them much more likely to question you.
Thank you, I needed to hear this.
Right, just state the plain facts, and don't overelaborate. Amber Heard lost her case by overstating everything.
That is so true
My question is how do you explain to someone why you all of a sudden break up with them if they are a Narcissist? How do i explain my side.
@@ljrockstar69 you don’t have to explain or point out what they did to make you leave. That goes nowhere. Put your disclosure boundaries back up to where they were before you let this person in. Say, I’ve decided to move on. People change.
I got called out for being unkind for simply mentioning narcissism. All were friends with my narcissistic ex. I remain civil but have learned to be very cautious around these people.
Oh gosh, yet another part of the video applying to my life! I actually compiled evidence (videos, texts, bank statements) proving my parents’ financial abuse of me and showed it to my GC brother. Somehow in the face of the overwhelming evidence, his reply was, “Well, there MUST be more to the story.” It completely broke my heart. I considered going NC, but apparently I didn’t have to make the decision because my evidence prompted him to give me the silent treatment (learned from our toxic parents). 😢
Take the evidence to the police or relevant authority.
Same with me everyone went silent. I've only been forwarding narcissistic videos to them and no reply or response. Atleast they know I'm aware of the narcissist bs and I'm no longer going to be the target or the scapegoat.
One bad thing about my narcissist is that he was raised in the church and can quote scripture better than any pastor. That throws folks off. They see him as a man of God instead of the devil.
That's the worse kind!
Yeah, a lot of people are fooled by people who talk about god all the time. We had one of those at work.
I have seen this type of person repeatedly in churches. It's sad.
One word: Tartuffe.
Sadly, I go on high alert the moment a new person mentions scripture, asks to pray with me, etc. Not that I don't believe in God, it's just that I've been hurt or used badly by so many who are adept at quoting scripture.
“You love to diagnose and label people you don’t like.”
“You’re just too sensitive.”
“Why didn’t you leave/push back?” “Why did you put up with it?”
💔💔💔
That guy/girl is crazy, let me warn you all about them... All the while they should be warning people about themselves.
@@paulclinton6414 Exactly. That's what my older half-sister (who I did not know was my half-sister, but was lied to by my mother, while half-sis knew the truth) did to me -- all my life. The first time half-sis's behavior was crazy-making was when she was 14 and had sex with my mother's then-husband. At 10 years old, I heard half-sis tell everyone about how she raped by our stepfather (who left the house with his tail between his legs, but not at all as a rapist, but more like a rejected suitor), while behind closed doors, at night half-sis would RAGE at our mother, "You can't hold your husband's sexual attention, or provide him pleasure. He had to come to me, you were so worthless." Yep, that's the hypocrisy I was raised with.
Fast-forward to our mother's death when I was 52 and half-sis 56, and half-sis told everyone that I had had sex with our stepfather, and what a constant disappointment I had been to our mother, when it was the EXACT OPPOSITE our entire lives. Half-sis - who is not just Narcissistic but BPD - has accused me of every misdeed and crime she ever committed. The night my mother died, my half-sis, along with our cousin-in-law, blamed all the missing narcotics medication on the hospice nurse, when - you guessed it - they are both addicts (have been for years) and they stole they meds. They were able to accomplish this by my cousin-in-law stealing my identity and posing as me (since I was not at my mother's house the night she died.) These two criminals - and that's nothing but an accurate label - had no problem using my good name to commit their crimes, then blame an innocent hospice nurse who nearly lost her nursing license and therefore her means of earning a living and putting food on her family's table.
I was absolutely aghast when I learned the hospice nurse had been fired, and was under investigation with the State Board governing nursing - I knew my half-sis was working overtime on this. Exactly as Dr Ramani describes, I fortunately was able to step in with written, neutral, 3rd party documentation in the form of my cell phone bill, and ATM withdrawal slips proving beyond a doubt I was at my home, 750 miles away, in a different state altogether, the night our mother died. With a written 10-page statement from me, documenting my half-sister's 20 year abuse of narcotic drugs - specifically by stealing them from our mother for years - showed that the main supporting statement taken by the nurse called to the house at the time my mother died stated, "Patient's two daughters both agree: hospice nurse took remaining medication," was patently false.
For once in my life I had written, 3rd party, unassailable documentation, and a person willing to believe the written documentation, not the narcissist. That DOES NOT ALWAYS HAPPEN. Many times people are WILLFULLY BLIND to the criminality of the narcissist -- because it would either require they do something that would require negating the narcissist (and they refuse to find their spine and say "No" to the narcissist),
Or, there's nothing in calling out the narcissist for them, because they are in on the game, and have a dog in the hunt. In other words, on a governmental/institutional level that my mother's death intersected with, they are "making a living" or "just doing their job" or actively making money off the corruption, and thus have no incentive to stop enabling the narcissist(s), and therefore stop the rampant criminality the narcissist is engaged in.
Or their perfect reason to fire an employee they didn't like (my mother's hospice nurse) intersected with a crime, and hey! The hospice company owner had it IN for her employee - easy to see when you see the complaint she filed which are only available for review by people named in the complaints. Thus the ultimate irony is that the theft of my identity was what allowed me to see a copy of the complaint -- because I was a named party in the complaint! Sometimes you have to deeply appreciate these ironic twists of justice, because it's all you ever get.
I have long believed our mother was suffocated until she died, because half-sis & cousin-in-law were tired of waiting for her to die; mother'd gone into a coma and was alive for 30 hours before 'dying.' But because nobody cared that my half-sister and cousin-in-law allowed the cremation of my mother to proceed without any questions, we'll never know. They know. And I know in my heart what happened. And that's the best I will ever get from these evil people, in my own family. As Dr Ramani reminds us, "Life is not fair."
And the classic: why didn’t you just leave?
Yes I had the same experience. Just yesterday when told my brother and sister about my partner. They made me feel it was my problem. This made me feel so helpless.
I called out a sociopath at work, documented the hell out of them, and had them fired whilst they were going around bragging that they’ll be promoted. For years they were getting away with bringing people to tears. They messed with the wrong person, an empath turn psychopath just for this moment. Eventually they get caught, they all do
People aren’t ready to see the narcissist for being a narcissist. But are more than willing to blame the target of the narcissists abuse as the narcissist.
That’s when the target must go within. As terribly painful as the experience has been it is starting to have its pay offs for me, in as much as I value myself a whole lot more than I ever did. I believe you can NEVER be alone once u start to value and love yourself. I mean thats some romance story 🥰
Narcissists are so good at isolating you from everyone and everything you love. A close friend said: "well, I never saw him do any of the things you say". As you said, it's easier for some people to ignore it. Done with being a close friend there.
That reeeeally hard when it comes from family members
My BFF took my narcissistic husband’s side ( *even after* he admitted to having an inappropriate emotional affair with someone nearly our college daughter’s age!!!)
My heart broke twice. First because of my failing marriage and then realizing my best friend wasn’t really my best friend after all 😔
So painfully true. The narcissist's entire community ghosted me immediately, even someone who is a well regarded and licensed therapist. The information you are sharing is helping me regain my sense of sanity. Thank you.
Ghosted. Great word for being and feeling absolutely invisible. It is like being a picture on the wall, painted by them, who is not me at all.
@@rosemarywhitehead438 I was re-written. It was as if nothing I lived and participated in had ever mattered. Just ponder the future mental consequences of that for me. Basically, game over.
@@lennie1703 absolutely my reality. I was re written and written off.
Thankfully we are not those monsters.
Pondering that future is very isolating , it's especially painful when you are injured then vilified then dismissed by those you sacrificed your life for and those who were supposed to have your back , instead back stabbed you.
God knows the truth of these Cain Judas types.
Horrid.
Me too.
@@Maverick4267 yes, yes thats it! Its the benefits. They will do anything for their approval. What the hell happened to integrity?
Have been experiencing abuse from a narcissist in the seniors home I reside in, your talks have been extremely helpful. At first I thought by exposing what she had been doing and still is, I mistakingly believed that if others could see and understand the gaslighting she was doing to me, it would help. But thanks to you, especially this latest podcast "how to point out a narcissist to other people " I realized better wait until she starts on someone else and then sypmpathize with them, because until they experience the same tre they will never believe. Thank you so much for helping me understand this.
First - once you know, leave and cut ALL contact
Second - don't underestimate the virtue of keeping your mouth shut
Paul; that's right!😉
Paul Reace, exactly!!!😱😎💕💞👋
These creeps stalk and block exit. You're their property and treated like a pet they like to pat then torture. the sweet/mean cycle makes it hard to leave as they can turn on the charm, promises or tears when you attempt to leave. Leaving a job or marriage is expensive and emotionally taxing.
Chris Cunningham Get out! The sooner the better. There is nothing in life with a real narcissist that is worth keeping. If you have to leave it all, it’s worth it. Leaving is not making a sacrifice, it’s avoiding a fate worse than death. If you haven’t been able to, re-examine if your loved one is an actual narcissist. If they are actually a narcissist, the choice and the choice to go gray rock will be obvious. There will be no regrets after you go gray rock. Perhaps you are still providing supply and they haven’t discarded you yet because they are still squeezing money from you or manipulating you into thinking that you have some value to them as they continue to deplete all that you are. No worries. It WILL happen and you WILL regret not acting sooner. Compare a grape (before a narc) to a raisin (after a narc) to a clump of dried dirt (denying the inevitable from a narc). If they are truly a narc you MUST go gray rock or live in complete misery waiting for the inevitable discard.
My boss told me my soon to be ex husband was a narcissist and it was like yessssss finally someone sees it and I'm not crazy.
Yes! A "success" storey! 😊 My soon to be ex husband's family, fortunately, see him for what he is too. They don't actually use the word "narcissist", but they know how mean, selfish, and abusive he is from their own experience with him. I feel somewhat blessed for that, even though I've had to go "no contact" with them too, but yes, it makes you feel like you've had that "Thank the Lord!" moment knowing you're NOT crazy!!! 🙂
How do you tell someone else about a narc? You can only warn someone that someone else is a narc if they have personally experienced being narcissistic supply & are on the path to realizing that fact. My son successfully called out my NM to me. He had seen me distance myself from her for years, knowing that both of us recognized she was toxic. He just took me a step farther along a path I was already on.
In other words, to warn someone else about a narc ask them about a situation they were in that required them to step back. If they are already in the mode of watchfulness and awareness, it will be easier to point out toxicity to them. ("Narcissist" is too loaded of a word for most people at least at the beginning of a conversation.)
On the other hand, if they deny ever being in such a situation, they probably aren't ready to hear a warning. Instead, talk about the general concept of self-protection this time. Later they might be able to hear more specifics.
My husband actually noticed my SIL’s behavior toward me by congratulating me on ignoring all of the baiting and barbs she shot at me while they were visiting us. He told me I deserved a medal. My reaction was, “Someone noticed!”
He told me it was easy for him because she reminded him so much of his ex wife.
Good luck with separation, stay strong.
I have been careful to not cally ex a narc in front of our (teenage) daughters. But I had this book I wanted my girls to read so they can get informed before getting into any serious relationships. The book is "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist." That book was a great jumping off point for me on discovering the narc and why I married one.
When their dad moved his girlfriend into the house my girls went from loving her, through a journey that was frequently painful for me, to the girlfriend starting to show her narc self. Once my girls started having problems with her I knew it was time for them to read that book. I lent them the book and put my name in the front cover so I could get it back. They took the book and it bounced between their rooms, but was always in their bedrooms at their dad's house.
After about a year we had a discussion about the girlfriends' admittedly narc and volatile adult son move into the house where my girls live. I showed up to the meeting (uninvited but concerned about protecting my girls). The girlfriend frequently got angry and went into shouting rants, and in one of those rants she mentioned that book and of course called me a narc who was using the book to learn how to be good at it.
Fortunately I was far enough along in my healing that I anticipated being verbally attacked in any kind of way. As I drove there I built up an armour, telling myself that their attacks aren't about me, I was doing the right thing for my girls, and even for their relationship with their dad (a narc, but I'm still counting on that book tell them what he is).
By the time I left that night we had a plan that they would write a contract before the gf's son moved in, and I insisted that my girls be allowed to have input onto what went into that contract so they would feel heard. My girls were present for this agreement and I told them to start writing down what they wanted in that contract.
I knew driving away that my ex would give in to his gf and her son would start sleeping there that night. I also knew there would be no contract written up. But the good news was that there was a plan put in place and my girls knew the plan. The gf's son started living there than night and stayed until my ex couldn't take it anymore. No contract was ever written up.
My girls have a book telling them what a narc is, and the same night that I came over to protect them I was called a narc. It didn't bother me that she called me that. I was prepared for that. What bothered me about it though was that the book was always in my girls' bedrooms, and the only way for the gf to know I gave them that book was if she picked it up and opened the cover where I had written my name. I talked this through with my girls and let them know that the gf had to go into their room and look through their things to be able to know that the book about narcissists was mine.
While my girls still don't realize the real reason I gave them the book (to learn about their dad), they have a front row seat to the highly toxic relationship of a covert narc (their dad) and whatever kind of narc the gf is. They fight a lot. The house is loud and chaotic. They hate living there.
I am their safe place. I am consistent, predictable, open, and I listen to them. We have a good relationship now. They are still being manipulated and sometimes used as pawns, many times to hurt me, but for any variety of reasons.
I had a counselor who specializes in narc abuse who told me to be myself and be patient, my girls will figure out who I really am and who their dad really is. It's been a very hard and bumpy road, but my girls are progressing towards me, and I am always going to be there to help them navigate the road they have ahead. I think about what I wish my mom had done for me and I do those things for my girls.
Of course once they figure out their dad is a narcissist I will advise them to never call him out, though I think hey instinctually know this because they haven't called out the girlfriend for being a narcissist.
This is 💯 my experience with my sister in law who out of the blue verbally attacked me at a family dinner. She always does stuff like this. Everyone makes excuses for her and enables it. When I talked to my family about it after I was having to defend myself against their criticisms about it all. I made it very clear it was not my fault and it was not ok. Speaking up more, standing up for myself and telling other family members what she’s done. Learning to stand strong in my truth and focus on my life. Grateful for this community. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Its hard to be yourself with narc sil and her flying monkey mil
HR has one mission only: protect the company.
I've just "liked" your comment & taken a screenshot of it
Susan; you are right!!
My boss was toxic. She was in charge of 20 employees and only 2 of us would stand up to her. The other person was let go and I transferred.
When people found out I was leaving they asked for my help. But I had been the only one complaining for a year. HR didn't care. And unfortunately no one backed me up sooner.
That is so true Susan, the narc made all of our lives miserable and tried to get people fired, except of course for his flying monkeys. Nothing could be pinned on him he was so calculating, it was like something out of a horror story. HR did nothing except moved him to another part of the company. We are all living with it indirectly now 6 months after he was moved. Very traumatic.
BAHAHAHA my Narcissistic Sister was head of HR. It only enabled her further. She revals in taking people down. It's so grossly inflated her ego her sence of empowerment and entitlement.
After I stopped all contact with my nuclear family, my aunts and cousins would tell me I needed to forgive my mother and sisters. After years of putting up with their abuse, I finally learned that forgiveness does not mean reconciliation, and I was finally free. Great video. You're right you can't tell others about your narcissist.
Absolutely. Forgiveness is important. If properly understood it's empowering as it frees the victim to set healthy boundaries (including not reconciling/ going no contact). But more importantly it helps other relationships become healthier!
Also. Just because other people are all about forgiveness, we're not required to forgive just because they do. They're free to forgive all THEY want to, just as we're free to NOT forgive someone for abusing us. It's okay to not forgive.
Nope. You just say “My hatred will die when they do. I’ll look out for the obituary. I’m always looking for entertaining fiction.” and leave it at that.
This works particularly well if you sound cold and composed when you say it. The hatred in this case is feigned, as you’re well on your toward excising them like tumors. But it has a greater than zero chance of forcing them to expend their limited time and energy talking shit about you - which they’d do anyway. They’ll imagine you’re a petty, bitter person. Feel sorry for you. Be appalled.
Whatever. They’re the ones stuck with processing that. Not you. Plus they’ll double down on trying to make you see reason. And you get to gleefully block their calls, texts, and emails while they frantically try to suck you back in.
I have to chip in on that. You don't have to forgive anyone - sometimes it is simply enough to accept what happened and find peace with yourself for it. You don't have to absolve them of the responsibility or consequences for their actions by forgiving them.
i feel so happy for you and rightly so forgiveness can mean you forgive and walk away but you stay away too xxx
Thank you so much Dr. Romani. God bless you. I recently left my narcissist husband after 23 years together. My body and mind just couldn't take it anymore.
Thank you for pointing out that you should NOT speak out if you're not empowered to. Families can be cult-like if the Narc uses propaganda against the scapegoat.
"Have you ever known somebody who's nice to everyone but you?" The response I got was "I know exactly what you're talking about." So it's not always an uphill struggle.
yes, my sister, and my brother
@@GoogleIsAPieceOfShit2023 we are not alone. Older siblings?
Everyone: THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CALL OUT A NARCISSIST. DON’T EVEN TRY
Me: *body cameras are a wonderful thing*
So are screenshots of text messages ☺️
And small voice recorders.
Thought a bout it too... 👏😂
Also saving text messages is good to do, even only for yourself
I'm glad we're thinking along the same line. These days it isn't that hard to get the goods on these monsters.
At age 55 I finally told my older sister that she was a narcissist and a bully and she cut me out of her life.
I didn't know what I was dealing with until the past month or two. I had always wondered why I didn't fit in my family. They always treated me differently. I had really wondered by the time I got my first job. My coworkers at every 9 to 5 job I had treated me way better than my relatives. I now believe my grandmother turned the family into a cult to protect her. I believe I might have become one of them if I wasn't raised by my great-grandparents. I had love and validation with them. The devalue only started in mid 1984. My grandmother had them to bring me to her house for school. Life was never the same again.
The person who both compliments you and leaves you feeling insecure with small subliminal digs. This is mind crafted skill. The red flag is you will feel confused, doubting. Like any music, you feel a vibration- your intuition already feels the disharmonious strange sound, words clash, vibrates in your heart..and your job is to recognize and trust it.
God this is accurate.
Yes! This is such an accurate description.
Gold!
Yep. I recently read some letters I received from my mother as a teenager, and the passive-aggressive digs were so obvious. And I was smart enough to see them, but I never did or said anything about it because I knew I'd get shut down and told I was 'too sensitive' by literally everyone in my family. No one had the guts to stand up to my mother. It was pathetic and left me feeling defeated and hopeless.
Just as in music, can't lie with vibration, words can be lies , but the vibration of the word will be truth. We can feel the difference
Yes. They can influence therapists too. They turn tables round in their favour. That's how my marriage counseling sessions came to an end
Oh yeah, gaslight city!
This is why I've decided I never want a group session with my mother, who I believe is a narcissist. I used to want one, thinking she would finally see all the stuff she does and would change, but reading that they will probably not benefit from it, I changed my mind. I've also changed my mind because I've seen, in person, how my mother will sit down, acting as if she doesn't understand or remember anything when she's faced with someone calling her out, who isn't already in the family. It's almost creepy to see because she changes to almost this innocent child, and then behind closed doors, she gives a venomous look for anyone daring to have said something, and then she ignores us until she needs something or "punishes" us in other ways. I know not to bring someone like that into therapy, but I think my therapist understands enough that she believes my mother is a narcissist. I know my mother won't change, though, so it wouldn't do any good, anyway; she actively avoids therapy, anyway.
couples therapy or marriage counseling with a narcissist? NEVER a good idea. They will not only make you feel crazy and wrong, they will get the therapist on their side too! 🤮
Took my ex-NPDH to an experienced, double degree, relationship counsellor. She called it for what it was - abuse - because he openly admitted to yelling, screaming, etc, etc. He then turned the tables on her, accused her of being incompetent, blindly siding with a female, and threatened to report her for professional misconduct. She rang me after that session and advised me that she would be terminating all future appointments.
Mine started making up lies about me in counseling, that is when it was over for me.