Lore Theory : Transwarp is used by all Starfleet Ships
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Let’s analyze the shift from the TOS Warp scale to the warp scale of the TNG era. Did The Federation really fail at transwarp? Or did the USS Excelsior's transwarp work so well that it revolutionized how Starfleet thought about warp drive?
Let's talk about it on today's Lore Reloaded.
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I totally meant for that DS9 box to be waaaay bigger than the other DVD boxes. Yup. I didn't just screw up, never.
How about a like on the video, eh? I have a kid to feed.
Your Starfleet centric viewpoint disgusts me, you worthless petaQ! Did you ever consider that it was other galactic civilizations, like the mighty Klingon Empire, who first used the warp 10 scale? It was you pathetic hu-mans, and spineless Romulans, who adopted OUR scientifically superior ways!
Bitchy_ Bitch: Hang on... hang on... I'm looking through my list of things I give a shit about.... nope. Sorry, you're not on it.
Bro you dont have the "X" factor. That Mat Pat has. He is a semi comic youtuber. He tries. He has a style to his Videos. Were you do not. You not bad. But not as good as Mat Pat. At least you try.
DarthVader DaGreat: You know, my first instinct was to be a dick, mostly because I have a pounding headache today. However, I try to ignore that impulse as much as I can (clearly I don't always succeed).
I'm not sure MattPatt is a comic book TH-camr (our mutual friend Drake certainly is). MattPatt does have a lot of talent, that is undeniable. However, let me tell you a secret
*MattPatt was just as bad as me when he was at my level. You have to be bad to be good.*
The idea of someone being a perfect writer, actor and editor due only to raw talent is a myth. The truth involves years of hard work, practice and effort.
I assure you, I am happy with my own progress and I'll get where I'm going, even if my writing and editing skills have outgrown my ability to narrate for the moment. In the mean time, I'm just happy to pay my bills doing what I love and I'm happy for the thousands of people who enjoy what I do and come back t see my work and watch me grow as a performer.
I only compare myself to myself in the past. That is the only way to truly judge growth.
I hope you have a great day.
Fancy Teeth ttt
Old Warp scale=Imperial System
New Warp scale=Metric System.
Starfleet saw that their scale was not the same as everyone else's so they adopted the scale others used .
If it were metric and 2 means 10 you go up to 9 and that's 100 million times light speed. They probably would have to switch to that at transwarp speeds as I assume that they would also come in different factors.
SI. System Intergalactic.
MORE THEORYS!!!
Starfleet-King: NARRKLAY! SCRAP THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE!
Barclay: Whatever, Sir. Whatever.
@Razgriz the Mandalorian Of course, the new system means an insane number of decimal points have to be calculated. Since Warp 9.995 is still not nearly fast enough to get through the galaxy in less than decades, but Warp 10 can be everywhere at once.
So the old system may have had issues, but arguably the new one has even more.
The Transwarp drive being the reason for the change in Warp Factor Scale, was used in the Star Trek FASA games. They claim that the Galaxy class uses Ultra Warp.
That's my head canon on it too. It was indeed a new and faster type of warp drive to go with the new warp scale but not the same transwarp like the Borg and Voth use. I'm going to say transwarp for the Excelsior is just a term used for warp that exceeded the current warp abilities and scale which would make sense why it's called transwarp for the Borg and Voth.
Earth Spacedock was under construction in the late 2250s, and I'm pretty sure it was finished shortly before the events of The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock. Starbase 001 was probably decommissioned or used for other purposes after Earth Spacedock was finished.
Whenever i hear warp i immediately think of turbo space hell from 40k
warp drive uses a subspace bubble to ride a subspace distortion. so, the ship it not going faster than light. its the bubble that travels faster than light, while the ship doesn't move at all!
Sulu says it's supposed to have transwarp drive. And Scotty says "aye, and if my m other had wheels she'd be a wagon."
It does
"Fuck you Discovery!" 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Broccoli and bacon go together like eggs and asparagus. I'm sure someone, somewhere can make a delicious meal from it, but I doubt the average person can make more than a mess. ;)
I remember in original Star Trek sulu said ultra wrap in one episode
I suspect that other civilizations seeming to use the same warp scale as the Federation is actually a product of the universal translator. Other civilizations may not use the Federation warp scale, but universal translators make it sounds as if they do.
That's a good point some have mentioned as well - which i didn't consider. It explains it away easily.
I thought the exact same thing.
me too.
I usually use really long comments by accident this one short though it's all math whether you're on a dirt road or you have a sailboat sail with a heavy wind behind you it's mathematics that's pushing or pulling so that solves that one Star Trek problem of interspecies speeds
ajs1031
The speed of light is a constant. That we on 21st century Earth use units like mph or m/s to describe it does not change the speed of light, nor does it change what numbers you would use for multiples of the speed of light as in the warp factor system. The speed of light is the same whether you measure it in metres per second or in smoots per annum; it is still 1c.
(as it turns out, metres and therefore kilometres are defined in terms of the speed of light)
(also, the speed of light is pretty near 300 000 km/s; specifically 299 792 km/s)
Okay, the reason the warp scale was reclassified was because of power utilisation. The most efficient speed (power wise) is DEAD ON a warp factor in the newer scale. As you increase speed from warp 5 to warp 6 (for example) you use more and more power until you hit warp 6 then the power usage drops significantly due to the phase alignment of the warp fields. The most inefficient warp speed is warp 3.99999, 4.99999, 5.9999 etc... The old scale didn't take this power usage into account and different warp factors had wildly different efficiencies. In order to increase the power efficiency of ships with the old scale , they would have had to memorize strange warp factors like warp 2.2653, 3.6543, 6.9274 which was obviously crazy, so they decided to reclassify putting each integeric warp factor at the most efficient points in the power curves.
@@indetigersscifireview4360 From The Next Generation Enterprise Technical manual.
utilization*
@@t4chi493 I'm British. S or Z are both correct spellings.
@@t4chi493 Believe it or not not everyone is from America
@@avinavi5414 lord be praised
Warp speeds is merely the speed of plot= how ever fast it needs to be
Kristie Rann Ahead, Mr. Sulu, plot factor 5.
Kristie Rann right. I looked up a warp calculator and put in how far the romulan neutral zone is from earth. It said at warp 9.99 it would take 24 DAYS (120 light years) for the Enterprise to get to the borg battle in First Contact.
Rowland Buck: www.st-minutiae.com/resources/warp/index.html
That one says 120 light years in 5.54 days at warp 9.99. Still showing up to the party late.
It's never been stated, clearly, how far the Neutral Zone is.
Starfleet-King: NARRKLAY! SCRAP THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE!
Barclay: Whatever, Sir. Whatever.
I didn't know this was a "theory". I thought it was something like the official explanation. Didn't the TNG technical manual actually have a reference or footnote to the idea that the TNG max-warp-10 scale was based on the Excelior's transwarp drive to explain the difference between the linear scale in TOS and the geometric scale in TNG? I don't have an old tech manual handy to verify, but that's the explanation we all thought back when TNG was still on air.
Making "Warp 10=infinite" makes sense if that's how the tech works. I don't think Starfleet did this arbitrarily. I think it naturally arose from the new "transwarp" tech pioneered by the Excelsior project and fitted onto every subsequent starship class. The TNG Technical Manual goes into this by describing the warp factors as a series of power thresholds. These thresholds are very likely dictated by the tech they are using, not by a desire to recalculate the speed chart.
If you think of the warp scale as an asymptote warp 10 makes sense. (That episode of voyager does not.)
I think the writers tried to borrow from real world physics. The idea that Warp 10 is the universe's top speed, and some of the issues with breaking it, are pretty similar to some theories about reaching and breaking the speed of light.
Trek and real-world physics are never a good idea, but that's my guess as to where it came from. We laugh at Star Trek for blatantly ignoring real science on a regular basis, so this is at least a nod to actual physics.
It's still a bad idea, but I wouldn't harsh too much on the writers for attempting to use real science.
That's the key. Original warp speeds were based on exponential increase in velocities.
In TNG, the idea is that while Warp 1 = lightspeed, higher warp speeds is about new formula being used to drop power consumption to go faster. E.g., going Warp 5 used less power than going Warp 4.6. As Warp 10 is infinite speed, you have to be able to produce near infinite power. The actual velocities obtained are no longer exponential values as you go up in number.
The key to going faster than Warp 9.9 is to have a new type of warp or FTL drive (e.g., slipstream drive).
The transwarp drive was supposed to exploit the phenomenon of the wormhole effect when a warp drive goes into imbalance. The system would create an artificial wormhole effect by layering multiple warp fields in front of the ship to simulate the environment that allowed much faster speeds at lower power levels. Supposedly, the concept did fail, but they learned much from it and made a vastly superior warp drive system from what they learned from the work with transwarp drive.
Warp 10 is an event horrizon within the math where you could move so fast that you could reach anywhere in the galxey in one planklegth of time. Now measure Warp 10 to another Galexy. Things would be different. Time would relatively exist again.
Not spoken in the movie?
Uhura: Would you look at that.
Kirk: My friends, the great experiment: The Excelsior. Ready for trial runs.
Sulu: She's supposed to have transwarp drive.
Scotty: Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.
Kirk: Come, come, Mr. Scott. Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant.
...........
STYLES: Status!
FIRST OFFICER: All automates ready and functioning. Automatic moorings retracted. All speeds available through transwarp drive.
STYLES: Incredible machine. Helm, one-quarter impulse power.
............
Captain Styles: [about Kirk] If he thinks he can get away with warp drive... he's really in for a shock.
[to his crew]
Captain Styles: Prepare for warp speed! Stand by transwarp drive!
.........
STYLES: Prepare for warp speed! Standby transwarp drive!
FIRST OFFICER: Transwarp at your command, sir!
COMPUTER VOICE: Full power available.
STYLES: Execute!
..........
COMPUTER VOICE: Transwarp drive maximum velocity in five, four, three, two, one...
(U.S.S. Excelsior slows to a halt)
...........
KIRK: Scotty, as good as your word.
SCOTT: Aye sir. The more they over-think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. ...Here, Doctor, souvenirs from one surgeon to another. I took it out of her main transwarp computer drive.
McCOY: Nice of you to tell me in advance.
Obsidian Order lies
Lore Reloaded Me? A member of the Obsidian Order? I am merely a simple tailor who enjoys watching the occasional movie.
Kirk: That's what you get for missing staff meetings, Doctor.
Gentlemen, your work today has been outstanding. I intend to recommend you all for promotion... in whatever fleet we end up serving.
Best speed to Genesis!
JimboLogic You are right. I know, becase it my 2nd favorite st. Movie.
You, like myself, are a true Trek fan. I salute you!
This is a good theory. Maybe Starfleet thought they've built an actual transwarp drive, then, upon tests, they realize the ship is damn fast, but ultimately behave just like any other warp drive, but way faster. For example, the french version of the movie calls the old warp : exponential speed. And the new warp : hyperexponential speed. This makes no sense obviously, except for one thing : the main idea of this movie is just to show a brand new tech that allow to travel so fast it renders the previous warp drives obsoletes. The Captain of the Excelsior even says that to Kirk, stating that the Enterprise will be decommissioned after that.
im sorry but you are WRONG lore reloaded, transwarp drive is mentioned in the original theatrical cut and VHS versions of Star Trek 3 : The Search For Spock. Its mentioned at least once by the captain and twice by the helmsmen of the excelsior. I went back and re-watched those scenes from the VHS version for verification. Its mentioned once 43 minutes into the film and then twice more 46 minutes it and Scotty mentions in 47 minutes in. IM NOT CRAZY DAMNIT!!!
IMPOSSIBLE! INCONCEIVABLE!
frank quillen Maybe he meant that it was never mentioned in Star Trek ummmmm Nemesis?
HA!!!!!
Didn't Sulu say something like "They say she has transwarp drive" and Scotty responds "If my grandmother had wheels she would be a wagon"?
Wrong, Wrong, wrong, Sulu says "She's supposed to have Trans Warp Drive". Then Scotty retorts, "I, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon."
This is obviously not the original version of the movies, i could never be wrong..
Aye, not I. It signals agreement, albeit sarcastic agreement.
Scotty is the best.
kirk wagging finger "now now mr. scott young minds fresh ideas be tolerant"
Miguel Ferrer's First Officer character also says, "....All speeds available through Transwarp drive." They say it at least twice. I never comment on TH-cam videos but the moment he said that in the video I had to stop and come here. lol
I just assume that the term 'transwarp' is used to mean 'better warp than we have' rather than a specific type of engine, so the TNG ships have transwarp compared to TOS, and the Borg have transwarp compared to Voyager.
Warp bends spacetime, to ride a 3d wave inside a warp bubble. Transwarp rides a wave in the 4th dimension. Using rules of the next dimesion instead of our own
They have warp dysphoria.
Maybe the fairy dust magic that is the Universal Translator just converts whatever speed the aliens that they're talking to that week says into the Federation's scale. So the Romulans, Klingons, Borg, etc all have their own scales but we never hear it because we just hear the Federation dub of what they're saying.
Charles Champ that makes a lot more sense than all those alien races speaking perfect American English for the most part, sometimes accented, but even brand new races we've never met speak standard Earth English thanks to the actually pretty simple technology of the universal translator, that seems like fantasy just 15 years ago.
I believe it was even shown in a couple of episodes, that when someone puts in their Universal translator the person yelling at them in an alien language slowly tunes into American English. What it doesn't explain is why then do we ever hear Klingon or Romulan or any alien language? If it translates everything, why does it switch back and forth between translating and not translating? That just makes the actor have to learn fake made up words.
It is purely for dramatic effect. Language can be a powerful tool.
I think the only scene that ever really confused me was in Undiscovered Country when they were trying to communicate without the translator. The idea is all well and good, but the computer could still have translated for them both ways and all they would have to do it read it back. Flipping through hard copies of text seemed rather silly.
I know its a different universe but in Doctor Who the TARDIS also translates everything automatically but in one episode they are testing what happens if they use words or dialects on purpose which are also alien for them self for example when the Doctor just speaks french and the Tardis doesn't translate such words. Maybe the Universaltranslator does an similar thing that it somehow recognizes wehter a person talks normal and wants so be understood or if the person is using an phrase thats more of an religious shout out and there for shouldn't be translated like many of the Klingon battlecryes or greetings.
I have to disagree somewhat with your premise. The universal translator would translate warp 9.9 as warp 9.9. In this you are correct but if another species had a scale that went to 100 vs 10, Starfleet would think they are really fast and the alien species would actually be talking about going really slow. The number would be translated but not the scale. Starfleet would figure that out with more knowledge of that species but not at first.
The warp restructuring seems a lot like a metric conversion: going from arbitrary units to base-ten units defined by an observable, physical reality or principle. Not quite the same, since they share the same unit name with the older measure, but pretty close.
And I'm obligated to make a comment of "lets do the time warp again!" Thank you, that is all
You take a step to the left...
It's just a jump to the left
I was just at the age that I didn't really understand that movie very much but we watched it in Memphis at a theater every Friday night at midnight and they allowed us to bring water guns raincoats I hear one time they had tomatoes you know and throw stuff around it was a riot now it's well probably just a bad movie haha
oh I'm 47 by the way I wasn't three when I watched it LOL
We always all had rolls of tp and threw em when the scientist busts in and brad yells great Scott!
That one episode of Discovery Burman and Lorca were traveling to the Emperor's Flagship, the dialog and time it took to travel 27 million Kilometers at warp 1 was spot on, 1 minute 31 seconds.
Are you sure about Star Trek 3? I swear I remember someone (Sulu maybe?) saying "I hear she's got transwarp drive."
Yea, I was wrong here..
Lore Reloaded Oh well not the end of the world. Keep doing what you are doing.
Lore Reloaded my respect for you just shot through the roof. I was going on here to politely correct you with that same scene. (I think the captain of the Excelsior also mentions it but I’m not positive on that one. Now I am going to hit the notification bell.
Lore Reloaded Also just to let you know as long as you only diss MatPat in good fun he and his wife actually run a company that analyses the TH-cam algorithm and helps content creators grow. You might see if the price and service would be compatible with what you want to do.
"She's supposed to have Transwarp Drive."***
My understanding was always that while the transwarp drive failed in its intended task that some of the new elements of the transwarp engine were retained in the then retrofitted standard warpdrive on the excelsior and subsequent ship classes (plus any compatible older classes). Those new components would still give an ENOURMOUS boost in speed, especially for a ship like the excelsior that probably had a oversized warpcore to begin with just to supply power to an even more demanding transwarp drive.
That's a good theory
@Mike DeMarco The difference is not science-related, but POLITICS-related. Remember, at the time James T. Kirk would've been both the most popular and most controversial figure in all Starfleet - not all the top brass would've liked how Kirk did things, but they couldn't deny that Kirk had saved the Earth at least once and was likely bringing in recruits by the shuttleload, so the Admiralty would've been split on how to deal with him.
Then comes Project Genesis - doubtless a PR disaster in some ways, but it allows Kirk to once again "save the day" and bring in a small Klingon ship that Federation ship builders would've doubtless been very eager to analyze. This leaves the Admiralty in a pickle - punish Kirk too harshly afterward and you drive away much-needed future recruits in the process. In this case, the Admiralty resolved the problem by arbitrarily declaring transwarp a failure (after Excelsior's humiliation by Kirk and co.) and flushing the careers of everyone related to it out the waste hatch, accompanied by giving Kirk a new command (Enterprise-A) later on.
TL;DR Transwarp was called a failure by Starfleet for political reasons, not scientific ones.
Sulu: She's supposed to have Transwarp Drive...
Scotty: Aye, and if my Grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon...
Best bridge banter ever...
Scotty sabotaged it so bad that even HE couldn't fix it.
In ST3, the phrase "Transwarp Drive" is also used in dialog. Specifically, when the Enterprise is stolen and the Excelsior is sent to chase after them:
*Enterprise jumps to warp*
Captain: "Prepare for warp speed, stand by transwarp drive."
Crewman: "Transwarp at your command."
Computer: "Full power available."
Captain: "Execute."
*Engine sputtering and groaning*
...
Computer: "Transwarp drive, maximum velocity in five, four, three, two, one..."
*Engine sputters and stalls*
The More You Know™
I thought the time dilation only applies when they’re going at a speed that’s close to, but still slower than, light. That would explain why maximum impulse is a small fraction of light speed and why hitting .7 C on that Saturnian shuttle run from “Chain of Command” was such a big deal.
A bit late to the show but: Time dilation happens to every moving object. It just isn't noticed with us puny earthling movements down here :D
But satellites in earth-orbit have to synch up every now and then with "Earth time".
I'm not entirely sure, but I vaguely remember that Starfleet ships also synch up their time? Can't provide any source thou...
With the other powers, could the universal translator translated what they said into the new Star Fleet warp classification?
The warp scale in the TNG Technical Manual shows that power demands increase up to a certain point then drop off dramatically once you hit a specific "warp factor", then repeated until you hit the next one, where it dropped off again. They labeled the warp factors according to the power curve. If warp drive worked the same for everyone then they would probably use the same labeling system. As for why this power curve stuff exists... blame Sternbach and Okuda.
So the original warp scale was the warp factor cubed. The new warp scale is the warp factor to the 10/3 power, with some extra math derived loosely from trigonometry to arrive at infinite speed at warp 10. Note that the deviation happens only as you add digits after the "9". When I was in high school, I used the numbers from the TNG technical manual to figure it out (mainly to see if I could). It actually enhanced my understanding of precalculus.
Yes, I was (and still am to a degree) a proper geek.
I wish I could find those really old sources that used to say old warp was just cubed - and then 5/3 and then 10/3 - I vaguely recall some mention of it being 20/3 in some later era (26th century or later perhaps) But by the time they get to the Universe Class Starships - they can supposedly travel routinely to another Galaxy.
But that does raise the awkward question is the Enterprise J still slower than Discovery - and what is Discovery's max-Range ?
If they used that larger spore contained the used to make multiple jumps to make one long jump how fare would they actually get ?
Or how far would they get if they made repeated trips in terms of distant - as far as another Galaxy with 130 jumps - for distance ?
I won't consider the spore drive as anything more than the Infinite Improbability Drive mixed with Magic Mushrooms as a gimmick. Sorry. I enjoy Discovery, but the drive premise was mildly insane to me.
If I remember right, the curve from warp 9 to warp 10 was originally hand-drawn.
It was, but they provided a few sample numbers above warp 9. It took a bit, but I worked out a formula
You can type it into wolframalpha and it will give you the speed or vice-versa.
This is how I feel when you hear a human tell an alien to turn something ‘clockwise.’ Why isn’t that aliens going “WTF LoLzzz clocks don’t turn...”
I could buy that a new scale with a upper maximum warp 10 was created for transwarp drive. Once transwarp became standard everyone dropped saying trans and just called it warp again. Would be nice if there was some exposition on this on alpha canon. To me it sounded like Excelsior’s Capt had already transwarp test launches. If transwarp hadn’t been tried at least once he shouldn’t be so confident. Also Scotty wouldn’t need to sabotage it.
I seem to recall that the TNG Warp Drive is based on the Alcubierre theoretical FTL engine. If that is the case, then there would be NO time dilation as the warp bubble allows the ship to move across spacetime on a flat plane as if it had zero mass. Time dilation is typically caused by gravitational force on objects of mass, with the the amount of dilation proportionate to the speed of the object. In fact, the bigger issue would be dealing with time dilation at impulse speeds: Accord to the TNG Technical Manual, normal impulse engine speeds are 1/4 the speed of light.
Labeld lol I just commented about it further up.
I couldn't remember if impulse was 1/8 or 1/4. Either one is crazy fast and would certainly cause noticeable time dilation. Especially 1/4 the speed of light.
As far as I remember, time dilation effects don't become noticeable to humans until about 0.9c. Like the TNG warp scale, it's an infinite curve.
Yes. That kind of bothers me a little because even under impulse power Star Trek ships are relativistic. Time dilation would be an issue when they're not in FTL. It would mean that to avoid it there would need to be a constant warp bubble around the ship, at all times. Maybe navigational shields solve that issue.
What an Alcubierre drive is theoretically supposed to do is create a bubble around the ship with negative pressure in the fabric of space time in front of it, a bit like the bow of a boat, and positive pressure behind it. That way the bubble propels itself at speeds exceeding c. Because whilst nothing can exceed the speed of light in space, space itself can do whatever it wants. That's how it bends space. Bending space to bring your destination closer is I believe how Heighliners in Dune are supposed to work.
Levent Taskan In the TNG tech manual it describes impulse drives having low level warp coils.
@Lore Reloaded
the Imperial system vs the Metric system.
Basically Starfleet used something akin to the Imperial system that the US uses today & everyone else used the "Metric" system of warp. Then in TNG and onward, Starfleet switches to the "metric" system...
Funny you should use metric versus imperial. In classic Trek episodes forward they use metric - or at the very least say kilometres.
... But in novels some writers would have them using miles. That's a research fail if you can't even get that right.
wellll...I was just using that as an example of WHY they would use different measurements for warp WITHIN cannon. WHY the writers decided to change things up is probably more closely based on either their perceived audience OR the writer/editor themself
Andre Brynkus actually that's not true, in the original series sometimes they would say miles, even Spock would say such and such an object is thousands of miles across or things of that nature. Also there were mentions of yards and feet and inches, the imperial system is alive and well in the future, maybe with the defeat of Communism and socialism worldwide we cement it's malevolent Conformity to the Past and reinstitute the imperial system worldwide.
And only later in Next Generation time when we have many more alien races to deal with we finally decide to use that stupid logical metric system.
(The French once had a metric calendar because they wanted to get all of religion out of their country during "the reign of terror", which was far worse than the monarchy, and ruled after the revolution and counted the year the revolution as "year 1", this silliness lasted for a number of years, they renamed all the months and of course there were only 10 because to European socialists the number 10 is what's holy, not the gods that all their beautiful cathedrals amd temples were built to honour.)
In any case it turns out that your research is just as much of an epic fail as the authors you are criticising.
Ugh, I must have formed this opinion after reading one book and then going back to watch the show to see metric in an episode immediately after. It always struck me as something incredibly backwards as NASA uses metric.
It would be like if that Quebec politician succeeded at getting Quebec pilots to speak French with Quebec air traffic controllers when it is English standard internationally. Even in China the Chinese pilots speak English to the Chinese controllers.
"Rebel Scum." - Imperial Officer
I don't think the warp scale changed at all. This all comes down to fans deciding that the warp scale had changed, so they could explain away the inconsistencies in TOS. As for Transwarp. Yes, I think they scrapped it. Kirk called it "the great experiment", Captain Styles commented that they were going to break some of Enterprises speed records. This says that Transwarp had never been tested, or else that other ship would have already broken those records. And the scale wouldn't have to change anyway. As warp speed increase, the relative speed increase at an exponential rate. So, going from warp 4 to warp 5 is not the same as going from warp 8 to warp 9. Once speeds could be reached above warp 9, this becomes even more extreme.
Starships in Trek always move at the speed of plot. This is because of the standard Federation starship power distribution system, the EPS - Extreme Plot System.
Really, I thought the EPS grid was the Exploding Panel Stimulator. :)
Pretty much the same conclusion I had come to; the Transwarp drive on the Excelsior isn't transwarp, as we know it in the later shows, but simply a project name for a new, faster warp drive. And that had become the standard warp drive by the TNG era. And the move to the new scale system totally makes sense for that reason.
Although Constitution classes unable to be fitted with that type of drive? See Star Trek 6, where the Enterprise A has a lovely Enterprise D style warp drive/engine room. Come to think about it, that almost makes perfect sense, as to why it has that.. well... disregarding why the brand new flagship Enterprise D then has an 80 year old warp coil (we all know production reasons come in to this, but it's fun to dissect anyway).
Didn't the Borg have Transwarp? How would this reconcile with their version?
If I remember right there was a licensed material explanation that the transwarp drive only failed at creating the transwarp tunnels, so the project was renamed ultrawarp because it was still obscenely fast and eventually that became standard warp. so while they fail at making the hyperspace bypass route that is transwarp they still are freakishly fast and necessitate a new speed scale.
The Borg used transwarp conduits and had a network of them. They acted more like wormholes. Outside of that transwarp network the Borg ships traveled in much the same way as other Trek ships at warp speeds.
PhoenixBird9000 mostly right but the Borg Cube was faster than the Galaxy Class at Warp speeds. Not sure as to how that equates in difference in speed though.
I interpret this as the Trek writers re-using the term for something completely different. They could have reused the term from the one-shot badguys, the Vodwyr (ST:V "Dragon's Teeth"), "subspace tunnels", but maybe they worried about the repetition. Tunnels would have made more sense, because you can have separate, unconnected networks of tunnels, the Vodwyr's and the Borg's, that only go to _specific places_ - "transwarp" sounds like it should be able to go anywhere from anywhere, like "quantum slipstream"
Alex V that right and I think this is a better and more fitting explanation
My mother bought me a Playmates Excelsior class ship model when i was a kid. I remember that the box said transwarp drive. I built the ship and hung it from the ceiling with fishing line.
The Starbase 001 we have come to know from Search For Spock was seen under construction in the last few minutes of the season finale as the camera zoomed in on Earth during that award ceremony
The whole warp-scale change is probably the true reason why there is no post-Voyager show. I mean, just imagine the dialogue:
"Helm, take us to Risa, Warp 9.999999999999999."
"Excuse me, Captain, how many nine's was that? I lost count."
The meetings between the Admiral and Barclay give me life!!! 😂😂😂
I am here for you..
Flipside, I found it astonishingly annoying.
Yea I figured it wouldn't be for anyone - I'm just testing new stuff out - we'll see what folks say
dont let anyone tell ya diffrent, I like it... and sounds about right for your average TNG admiral.
keep them. I find them mildly amusing which is good.
Seriously? Me and my friends discussed how this had to be what happened YEARS ago. At this point I figured that just about everybody into Trek believed this theory.
Also here's something. Most Beta canon info you can find on the Oberth class (older than the Constitution class but still in the fleet even after the Dominion War) lists them as having very slow top warp speeds (in the TNG warp scale). I think this indicates that this class still uses the old warp drive they were originally designed for. It would make sense that for allegedly non-military science and survey ships such as these, retaining the older type of warp drive wouldn't be a big deal since almost any mission they could reasonably be expected to be tasked with, the extra speed from modern warp drives would be meaningless, especially weighed against the almost certainly far higher cost and complexity the new warp systems would have. This could also mean that in TNG-DS9 era, most civilian/corporate commerce ships would still have the older, cheaper, less complicated, but slower class of warp drives and generally only military/psuedo-military organizations like Starfleet have the need and resources to spring for the newer hot rod warp drives.
Also, wishful thinking here but maybe the next revolution in warp drive designs will be creating warp plants that don't immediately get knocked offline every time someone fires on the ship when it's shields are up.
Warp 5 (Archer's era) would take you weeks or months to get anywhere and your area of effective operation would be very small - so short of using some subspace highway of space that gives you a speed boost - an Obereth almost would have to be using the same speed as TNG's max safe speed (when they broke subspace) of Warp 5 (5/10) and not 5/3 or 5/5 as that would get you nowhere further than your own backyard in any time less than months.
It was supposed to take a Starship in Kirk's time (TOS) up to 6 months to travel from one end to the other of known space - though understandably they didn't want and entire season to be a single mission. so I do get why they cheat A LOT.
one of the better explanations!
MatPat made a Star Trek video once and I disliked it...
Matthew Soukup I have never heard of matpat, I'll have to check it out!
His channels are Film Theory and Game Theory. Most of the content is pretty good, but his star trek video had some terminology inconsistency.
@@mjsoukup Any more info? Is it a single guy doing voiceovers with a cartoon-ey or still photo avatar? Or two dogs named Matt & Patt playing fetch, with a theories voiceover?
This one th-cam.com/video/P4KBPaS-1PU/w-d-xo.html
I can understand why they redid the warp scale to a point.
The old scale is very simple-minded. Cube of the warp factor is your speed.
The new scale is logarithmic, and while it's a weird, awkward factor (~10^(log 1.9945) roughly, from memory), but by virtue of being logarithmic, it handles large numbers much better, and reflects that at higher speeds, the exact velocity you're going becomes less and less relevant, since minor changes won't matter much.
The system is perfectly consistent up to about warp 9
Past that point it becomes a mess.
Basically, every doubling of warp factor is a 10x increase in speed.
Exact values are marginally different, but for illustration:
warp 1 = 1c
warp 2 = 10c
warp 4 = 100c
warp 8 = 1000c
Seems sensible enough. The mess comes about because of that warp 10 = infinite definition.
Incidentally this might also explain why in the last episode of TNG they were going warp 13.
Most obvious answer is that they removed that 10 = infinite thing, and just extended the scale upwards.
This puts warp 13 as roughly 5,188c, which from memory would otherwise be something like warp 9.99 or the like.
Compare this to the original scale where
warp 1 = 1
warp 2 = 8
warp 4 = 64
warp 8 = 512
warp 10 = 1000
warp 11.5 = 1520 (approx equal to the 1516c of the new scale warp 9)
You can sort of see the advantage this has, but ironically most of the advantage would be represented at speeds that in the new scale are all in the 9-10 region, which undermines the advantage.
A secondary reason from secondary sources (TNG technical manual) is that the warp factors in the new scale align with what the most energy efficient speeds are.
For instance, travelling at warp 3 is actually more energy efficient (and faster) than travelling at warp 2.5.
While this isn't a canon source, it would make for a good reason to change the warp scale.
If the efficient speeds to travel at are aligned with the integer warp factors in the new scale...
Well, very few of those line up properly in the old scale.
The advantage of that is fairly obvious;
In the old scale you may have had to remember that the most efficient warp factors to travel at are, say, warp 2.1, warp 3.4, warp 4.5, warp 6, warp 7.3, etc.
Where in the new scale you know that any integer warp factor is good, fractional warp factors are bad unless you desperately need the extra speed or to arrive somewhere at a very specific time....
I hate the transwarp ten thing from voyager that whole idea makes no sense honestly. Also in TNG they had ships able to do warp 13 in the ep all good things.
The "Warp 13" we hear from Riker in that episode is happened in an alt future. One theory is that by the time of that alt future the Warp Scale had been changed yet again so the commanding officer of a ship won't have to go "Warp 9.9999999999999234", instead they just say "Warp 13" which is a more efficient way of doing things. However if there is a new Warp Scale by that time the only thing to give us information on it that we have in Alpha Canon to go off on are people saying numbers higher than 10.
Making "Warp 10=infinite" makes sense if that's how the tech works. I don't think Starfleet did this arbitrarily. I think it naturally arose from the new "transwarp" tech pioneered by the Excelsior project and fitted onto every subsequent starship class. The TNG Technical Manual goes into this by describing the warp factors as a series of power thresholds. These thresholds are very likely dictated by the tech they are using, not by a desire to recalculate the speed chart.
Now, in the 'All good Things' future, it's possible the tech has made another leap, creating new power thresholds that are designated as warp factors.
I think it's exactly as Charles Champ stated, by then all of these ships reach incredibly high speeds and it makes much more sense to redesignate warp factors than to call out "make for warp 9.999953" or "make for warp 9.999984" and so on.
Stardates are a form of time keeping that somehow takes time dilation into account. The new warp scale was put in place for higher speeds, as apposed to the old warp factor as a multiples of C. No one will oder “Ahead at warp factor 14,357.” It’s like giving speeds in Mach speed or C instead of MPH/KPH.
I turned this off when you said that Transwarp Drive was not spoken on screen.
Oh noes! However will I sleep at night!?!
The problem is the "Transwarp Is Still A Thing" theory is that it doesn't solve the problem of confusing the Warp Factor scale you mentioned. If its confusing to change the warp speeds, how is not confusing by adding Transwarp to it? In your scenario, wouldn't the admiral still potentially confuse Transwarp 8 with original Warp 8? Wouldn't all the officers still need to be retrained to understand the new Transwarp Factors? Throwing in Transwarp does not avoid this problem.
I liked the skits with Brockley ...um, I mean Barclay.. you should do more of those. they are hilarious. Great vid um 13th comment
yeah
TFW he says that tranwarp drive is never used in ST3 dispite it literally being called a trans warp drive in the movie when the captain of the excelsior calls out “standby for transwarp drive” bruh
Canada switched to Metric in 1970-1971, it caused a *lot* of problems and the nationwide population wasn't even that big back then, never mind a space faring culture with tens of billions of inhabitants.
rf85 yes it had stuck with the imperial system even after most of the Empire/ Commonwealth had abandoned it it because America despite fiddling with spellings, stuck with the imperial of measurements in Canada had much more trade with America than anybody else and it made for a much easier trade without conversion, which has the rules stand now that if you have to round off you do it in favour of the country using the metric system, so America loses billions of dollars a year due to that.
I still remember some of the cars that had sub-assemblies built in Canada and started having metric nuts and bolts when nearly every American car had Imperial nuts and bolts and so every mechanic or guy that wanted to do the simplest thing on his own car had to go buy a whole new set of tools. For a lot of people that was a reason not to buy a foreign car was that "you couldn't work on it yourself... they use metric crap".
With Canada going metric, it took away that argument and look at the car market today. Just one of many factors of course.
I think Canadians still tend to talk about their own height in feet and inches though, and the few times kilometres is said in the United States is normally said as "kah-LOMA-ter", whereas I think most Canadians say "KIL-o-meter".
Canadians, chime in and let me know!
Canada has become a mixture of imperial and metric units, common imperial uses for example: lumber, 8 foot 2x4's, 8x4 foot sheets of plywood; people's height and weight are measured in feet and pounds; at the grocery store fruit and meat are sold by the pound; tv's/monitors are measured in inches; land was originally surveyed using imperial units and is often sold by the acre or the "section" which is one square mile; oil is priced by the barrel but sold in cubic meters; gold coins are minted in troy ounces; . Most other instances use the metric system. However, because many food products are packaged in the USA in whole numbers of ounces or pounds the metric conversion seems a little unusual, for example a bottle of pop is 591ML and a box of cereal will have 909 grams.
One of the weirder things, many people say the word mile when describing a kilometer, and to prevent confusion will say "miles miles" when referring to the imperial mile. for example: the speed limit on the highway is 100KM/hour, when describing this people will say "the speed limit is 100 miles per hour." when in the USA the speed limit is 60 miles/hour, many Canadians will say " the speed limit is 60 miles miles per hour"
Miles is just an easier word to say than kilometer.
the distances on the highway signs are in KM and the gasoline is sold by the liter, but people talk about the fuel efficiency of cars in miles/gallon.
Steven Kuski Australians say "K" as the abbreviation for Kilometre, rather than "miles". Odd that Canadians still say "miles" for kilometres. Abbreviating it to "K" like Australians do seems much more obvious.
Broccoli! Bring me a copy of Starfleet Academy course catalog and a gallon of white out.
good idea
In the JJ Abrams Star Trek, Transwarp is a portable device one can use to teleport over vast distances. Kahn used it to teleport himself from earth to a Klingon planet.
9.999... repeating is equal to 10, by the way. The more you know.
Edit: some people in the comments are saying that this is false. Just look up "0.999..." on Wikipedia, because it is not.
Caucasiafro, you beat me to it!
there's a reason I didn't do the math ;P
Can round to tenmake but not 10, depending on significant figures.
*Ahem* When Rounded!
To be accurate 9.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Oh, also there is a slight problem created during the time warp scene in Star Trek IV - they seem to already be using the NEW scale, as after they reach warp 9 Sulu starts counting in decimals. (I suppose this could indicate that the Klingons already had transwarp well before the Federation)
This scene does also support the idea that space effects how fast you actually move in warp, as otherwise you would expect them to have zipped by the sun in the blink of an eye. Perhaps the closer a ship is to a gravity well, the less effective its warp drive becomes?
The captain of the excelsior say "if he tries to escape we'll go Transwarp" as the enterprise is leaving space doc
So you're saying everybody in the TNG era Starfleet is TRANS!?
Wait, that might actually explain the man-skirts in season 1...
Also, you're saying they should arrange their society along the lines of the lobsters.
they went from a standard warp scale to a metric warp scale.
I like this explanation on the warp speed change; it could also help explain how the damage to space was increased (as seen in TNG) dramatically to be visible
There is no time dilation because the the warp drive warps the space around the ships which never really travel faster than impulse.
I always imagined that whenever an alien species speaks about scales, the Universal Translator translates it to scales that make sense from an Earth-centric view. A year wouldn't be the same for every species, nor would a minute. Yet, we hear aliens who just made first contact talk about years and minutes in ways that the humans understand. I imagine the same thing happens for warp factors.
I had to pause @ 5:29 to comment. Yes, Transwarp IS mentioned in the movie before the graphic is displayed.
"Time Warp" may have been a legacy from the original pilot which if I recall correctly, they told the illusions of the Talosians, "We broke the time barrier," or something similar. In one sense the movies carried over the major series concept of the deus ex machina nulification device which was effectively to just mostly forget about it. On the other hand it could be argued that "transwarp" wasn't a desus ex machina but a use of technobabble to give the suspense of "we can't run away" if only for a moment.
Never the less, you point is extremely valid but for a different reason. Warp speeds were generally integer values (with some exceptions but it always was in a condition of pushing the engines). Later attempts to retrofit the history specified "barriers" and defined star ship design in integers as well. The different scale (which is also used in a mostly integer fashion, at least for the slower speeds) implies a completely different optional speeds for the engines, which in turn implies a different engine.
Most of the basic races used more or less the same warp technology (an exception is the Romulan ships based on energy from a quantum singularity) but that's not really enough to suggest that they had the same power curves as that of the Federation. Cl;early there was an order of magnitude
One last thought and probably a controversial one; the term "trans warp" basically means "beyond" warp. Any engine capable of going beyond the current parameters would be considered "transwarp" until it became common and then the parameters of the new technology would be considered standard. So you can't compare the terms from one era to the other.
We knew Earth Spacedock was not Starbase 1 not because of Discovery but because of Earth Spacedock never being referred to as Starbase 1 and because Star Trek Enterprise finding a possible site for the first starbase at the Berengarius system. it was the Abrams movie that messed it up and placed SB1 into Earth orbit,
I disagree
I have pondered to myself that there was some correlation between the change to the Vertical Warp Core and increased warp speeds. Could a Constitution Refit accept a vertical core?
It’s explicitly shown in TMP in fact (and they redressed the prop for Voyager‘s core).
Imperial Warp Factor vs Metric Warp Factor :P
From what I've understood, transwarp drive from the Excelsior and transwarp drive a la Borg are completely unrelated. The Constitution class ships had to accelerate through each warp factor until reaching their desired speed. The 'transwarp' drive was designed to just go to the desired warp factor right away.
You screwed up the transwarp drive comment perhaps you are not as well versed in lore as we thought
....ok
Here's an easy answer as to why everyone says "Warp," even aliens
(points to universal translator)
Literally everyone lives off of these babies. They can do the conversions for you!
I’m surprised no one has commented on the scale differences. The differences between warp factors in TOS were equal. For example, the difference between warp factors 5 and 6 were the same between 1 and 2. In TNG, 2 was doubled 1, 3 was double 2 and so on. It was exponential from one factor to the next. The reasoning for this is likely one of two reasons - 1 - the new drive was more efficient and instead of staying warp 1500, we will go with warp 9.5. The other likely reason is that it standardized speed across the galaxy. As to the confusion, it would be like if the US went to the metric system, would take a bit of time but would be worth it. As for the trans warp name- my guess is the trans was dropped when they realized it wasn’t actually transwarp like what the borg uses (transwarp conduits), but a much more efficient and faster system what they were using.
the only logical reply in the entire thread!
Ships ? Bah. Stargates are much faster...
Build them big enough and you can ship cargo and crew much faster. SG-1 is faster than the Enterprise.
Makes me wonder how the technology of races like the Ancients or the Asgard would compare to Star Trek.
@@Overcrox Well, Captain Kirk went around kissing every alien that looked even slightly female, so no fertility problem for the Federation ! (Maybe a few Alien STDs? but that's Dr. McCoy's department to fix.)
Star trek's warp scale has always been... warped.
Mr Scott's lines I enjoy:
"I can't break the laws of physics!"
"Synthetic alcohol, synthetic commanders."
"She's giving it all she's got!"
"My poor baby!*"
The more you learn the more you lore. Go to the (great) link.
Transwarp drive is absolutely mentioned in Star Trek III. The computer states, “Transwarp drive, maximum velocity in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…” Also, Scotty tells McCoy he took his souvenirs from the “main Transwarp computer drive.” Kirk: “She’s supposed to have Transwarp drive.” Scotty, “Yes, and if my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a wagon.”
Please do more homework before you spew “fun facts.”
4:01 through 4:21 is just pure gold. I love that Admiral.
I actually have those dvd boxes of DS9 and TNG he showed that's cool
FACT CORRECTION: Go watch ST 3 again.. when the Enterprise is arriving ins space dock: Kick, Sulu, and Scotty are talking about "the big experiment" AKA the Excelsior. During this talk, "she is supposed to have transport drive" to which Scott makes a remark about "if his grandma had wheals..". Also when they are getting ready to chase the Enterprise on the NX-2000 they talk about "all speeds available through transwarp"; and then after the GLITCH and they get away Scotty gives the chips to bones saying he "took them from her main transwarp computer drive"... SO THEY SO USED THE TERM TRANSWARP AND TRANSWARP DRIVE in the movie!!!
I figure that transwarp drive recalculated warp speeds in a manner that made it EASIER. Like changing from Imperial units (feet) to the Metric System (meters). Then we discover that the Borg's "transwarp drive" requires transwarp corridors (that Janeway subsequently blew up). I think the Borg were actually using what we call, "hyperspace" in Star Wars (which requires following hyperspace "lanes").
I had always thought the post-Excelsior ships were using transwarp, and hence the change in the warp scale. Some pre-Excelsior ships could be refitted, but most were retired. I have never really understood how a alien race could come up with the same scale/speed factor - unless it's just translated using the universal translator to a scale "we" understand. As pointed out below, Transwarp was used in the move a bunch of times, probably even more than people have pointed out, it was a big plot point of the movie. And it was clearly sabotaged so Star Fleet would want to try again, they investing a lot of time and resources into making transwarp, and would not abandon it with just one "failed" attempt. The whole point of doing tests was to find problems (if any) with transwarp and fix them, it would be something that even if the first test failed, they wouldn't give up on, and try to learn why it failed. The question becomes when did they stop calling it transwarp, and just start calling it warp (?) I don't have a good answer to that - Most likely after the last non-transwarp ship had been moth-balled. But as far as I know there is no clear indication when transwarp and warp became synonymous
Metric System in space. The old warp system was not linked to a physical constant measurable by anyone so is a lot like imperial units. The new system is base ten linked to a maximum speed that any civilization could come up with. This does not stop a new warp or transwarp technology for coming in. If anything a new understand that there is a max speed from an improved warp drive could have made the shift to the new scale critically important, just as global trade and supply lines made the metric system take over the world.
Ok, I absolutely love your Admiral impression. It's totally epic.
"I need bacon" is something hopefully said by someone at some point in Starfleet history.
By the way, YOU'RE WRONG
Transwarp is mentioned in STIII
th-cam.com/video/AbHvXr_9fE0/w-d-xo.html
Doesn't seem too confusing... a bit like changing from imperial to metric; within a generation, everything makes so much sense to everybody.
The admiral just watched Spinal Tap and decided only his ship would be allowed a dial that went to 11.
Scales changing is a thing. Unless you're here with me in the US, in which case screw metric! Anyway, my impression was that it was the transwarp experiment, and the new scale was "transwarp 1", "transwarp 2", etc. until everyone got tired of calling it "transwarp" and dropped the extra syllable. Sort of like how no one specifies that they're using a "smartphone" every time they make a phone call now.
I think part of the reason this isn't held more universally is because we see "transwarp" something that the Borg and others have that TNG era Starfleet drools at upon seeing. But they way they use it clearly isn't one single technology (sometimes it's conduits, sometimes it's just a different go-fast starfield effect, etc.). It's also not a specific speed range as it's still "warp" when the Traveler gives them the temporary infinity+1 engine upgrade. It's more like "it's warp, sir, but not as we know it" to paraphrase a certain Vulcan science officer.
Of course, it could just as easily work with "New Warp", "Smart Warp" or "Apple iWarp", developed after the failure of the transwarp project.
As for aliens talking in warp factors - I feel this was translation. While we occasionally get local units, it's always with people who understand those units like land sizes on Bajor. The crew isn't going to know every species' warp scales and terms, so "Goh'fa'ast 7" becomes warp 4 from the universal translator. It's the only reason I can figure out for why an American like Kirk would use kilometers instead of miles. Fricking translators.
I once read a great article on the 2 warp scales, and how TOS cannon showed that the Enterprise, in the episode That Which Survives, would traverse 990.6 LY in 8 hours at warp 8, which is about 660,000 times the speed of light.
In this article, several explanations were offered, however, the math done showed that the two scales were virtually identical up to about warp 8. However, past this, the azemtotic TNG scale took off. For example, TNG warp 9 was somethign like TOS warp 12 and TOS warp 14.5, which was Enterprise's max on-screen speed achieved in the aforementioned episode, would be about TNG warp 9.5, something like that.
The idea, for example, that the TOS warp factor was a simple cubing simply doesn't work for on-screen canon, in any way. It was also rpoposed that when giving a warp speed, there would also be what was called the Chi factor, a value of about 1200 or so, that was factored into the calculation.
For example - warp factor 8 = 8 x 8 x 8 + 1289 = 660,000. An interesting take, anyway.
Oh, and just to throw in a monkey wrench - TW drive is supposed to be a controlled version of what happened to Defiant and what Enterprise did in The Tholian Web - drop into an empty dimension where time flows different and then re-emerge into ours, having moved faster than standard FTL would get you.
Note on math:
You mentioned wap 10 as beyond warp 9.9repeating.
Actually 10 = 9.9repeating because 1 = .9repeating
Proof:
1 = 3/3 = 3(1/3) =
3(.3repeating) = .9repeating
I have a theory on the speed discrepancy. In TNG, we learn that Warp Drives have been eroding space-time, to the point that Subspace was beginning to erupt into realspace in places. It may be that the Excelsior's transwarp drive was faster than the TOS Warp drives, but this new drive may have also caused this damage, gradually reducing the speed of each Warp Factor. We know that Starfleet put a lot of work into fixing that problem and creating an ecologically safe drive. The big difference? I theorize that there was equipment in the TOS warp nacelles which better regulated the warp fields, minimizing the ecological damage as a side-effect.
In the Enterprise two-part episode "In a Mirror Darkly," we see, for the first time, a detailed Main System Display of a Constitution class ship. There is a *lot* of additional equipment in the warp nacelles, from what appear to be antimatter storage pods in the front to a structure in the back which ends in the sphere we see sticking out the back of the warp nacelles. In TNG and Voyager, we see in the Main System Display that this additional equipment does not exist in their nacelles. The E-D has ecologically unsound drives. Voyager tunes its warp field with variable geometry pylons. It may be that use of the additional equipment fell off as technology allowed a more fine control of plasma to maximize performance, atop the brute force of more powerful reactors. The Main System Display on the Enterprise-E, however, shows an equipment package aft of the warp coils - a package which ends in a sphere like the TOS engines did, except fully encased in the nacelle rather than sticking out the back end - and the pylons are solid once more.
I suggest that this may indicate that they re-engineered the old warp field stabilization equipment, and are using that to mitigate damage to space-time (and perhaps let the ship squeeze out a little more speed, resulting in the new slew of new vessels which were "the fastest ship in the fleet").
I like this theory. I'll buy it.
Also, the failure of the transwarp project doesn't make sense from another perspective.
Barclay: 'Sir, the Excelsior Transwarp Project is a complete failure.'
Admiral: 'Good news. I want you to build a hundred billion Excelsior class ships.'
Barclay: 'But sir!...'
Admiral: 'DO AS YOU'RE TOLD MURDOCK!'
Barclay: 'Sir, my name is...'
Admiral: 'I PITY THE FOO WHO CONTRADICTS ME!'
They just used the Enterprise engines' modification from TOS (for travel to the NEXT Galaxy) and upgraded everything else. Then Broccoli got the mind-boost from a probe (NOT ANAL) and increased the Enterprise D speeds MORE!
Maybe they changed the warp scale when they switched over to vertical intermix chambers in warp cores (TMP).
No matter how much people try to justify inconsistent warp factors, it still doesn't explain how inconsistent speed in Star Trek is simply by looking at Lightyears/Year. Remember that in one of the earlier episodes of TNG, Geordi said that Enterprise could have traveled from Triangulum to the Milky Way in "over 300 years". Going at Voyager's speed (70 years to go 70000 Light Years), that puts the Enterprise-D's speed at around NINE times Voyager's speed (Triangulum is about 2.7 MILLION Light Years away). Even if you assume "over 300"=
I the reason for the inconsistenties... Poor writing.
Let's get a full reboot that has all the terms and limitations and all the other aspects of Tech-Tech predefined... Oops, I... I didn't MEAN it. NO ! I APOLOGISE!!! NOOOOOO!
Headcanon : The Constitution was Refit to test the viability of vertical warp cores, which would later be necessary for "Transwarp" development, but while it functioned fine, the Constitution was just too fragile as the vertical core is housed in the weakest joint in the ship. This is while the Excelsior class had the thick neck, and why when Scotty asks about a refit of the Enterprise (presumably to match it to Excelsior's new tech) Starfleet is like "It's too freaking old" but also, more or less not compatible. Mirandas also had very short cores that didn't GAF because they used a short core anyway-- No refit needed for a *different* core if you're stuck with a short one anyway. But the Constitution had been THE Starfleet ship class and would need a more sizable core to handle the load they'd need to carry. A load that an already cramped neck section couldn't bear any longer.
technically 9.99...repeating is actually equal to 10. To see how this makes sense, think of 10/3 = 3.33..., 20/3 = 6.66..., so by logical extension, 30/3 would be 9.99...., but it is also 10. Another way to look at it is that for two numbers to be different, there has to be a number between them(i.e. x-y=z). if you have 9.99.. out to infinity, you cannot subtract that from 10 since you would have to stop the sequence of 9's somewhere to actually do the calculation, the "difference" is infinitesimally small. For the proof minded among you: x=9.999...; 10x=99.999...; 10x = 90 + 9.999...; 10x = 90+x; 9x = 90; x=10; 9.99... = 10
So I just watched the "Stealing the Enterprise" Scene of Star Trek 3, and you should see that they do, in fact, say "Transwarp" several times... In fact, the pivotal scene literally plays out as follows
_____________________________________________________________________________
Other Captain: "Kirk, if you do this, you'll never sit in a Captain's Chair again..."
Kirk: "Warp Speed"
Sulu: "Aye sir" ***hits buttons*** "Warp Speed"
***Enterprise Zooms at Warp***
Other Captain: "Prepare for Warp Speed, ready Transwarp Drive"
Other Captain's Helmsman: "Transwarp at your command sir"
***Cue comic fail scene***
Computer, Garbled: "Maximum transwarp speed in 3... 2... 1...."
__________________________________________________________________________
I've included the clip here as proof
th-cam.com/video/mkJ3--2K7yo/w-d-xo.html
Geordi La Forge describes transwarp as twenty times maximum warp and that normal sub-space limitations do not apply to trans-warp variables.
Warp 9.975 = 1 ly ever 3hr
Transwarp = 6.66 ly ever 1hr
At a distance of about 2.5 million light years, the Andromeda galaxy (also known as NGC 224 and M31) is the nearest galaxy to the Earth.
2,500,000/6.66 = 374999.9999999998125 hr
So roughly 43 years
micro-grams, the ship is squished inside a subspace bubble, with a small pocket of normal space around it. At the same time, a portion of space in front of the ship is shrunk (pulling the ship forward) while the portion of the space behind the ship is expanded (pushing it forward). To generate sufficient energy, deuterium stored in tanks is combined with anti-protons within the warp core. The warp core is surrounded with some powerful magnets that force the explosive energies to be "contained" until they're shot out of the warp nacelles while the warp engines in the nacelles harness that "pure energy" to generate these powerful force fields.
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FTL speeds
Macross Spacefold
Conventional Fold Booster:
1 ly every 2 hours.
100 ly: 200 hours (8 days & 8 hours)
Super Fold Booster:
1 ly every 12 minutes.
100 ly: 20 hours
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Star Trek Warp Drive
Warp 5
1 ly every 2 days
100 ly: 6 months
Warp 9.975
1 ly ever 3hr
100 ly 300 hours (12 days 12 hours)
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Star Wars
Hyperspace
1 ly every 1.4 minutes
100 ly every 2.6 hours
2 reasons: 1 - Inconsistant Writing. For sure. Reason #2 Michael Okuda. The man.... The Legend. He straightened everything out.
5:10-5:20
...um, what? Captain Styles specifically said "Prepare for warp speed, *standby transwarp drive*", and the navigator or helmsman responds with "Transwarp at your command, sir." So that's twice that it was mentioned in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, three times when you consider that earlier in the movie as the Enterprise passes the docked Excelsior, Sulu says "She's supposed to have transwarp drive".