Enterprise NCC-1701-A : Kirk's Punishment for Treason
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2018
- What’s up Lore Masters!
Today we're talking about a specific ship, the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A.
So let's explore the history and lore of Captain Kirk's punishment for treason, head to the center of the galaxy and then wonder what god needs with a star-ship!
That's coming up right now on Lore Reloaded.
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Hey Guys, I know Hyperbole is lost on people - or I have to much of a dead pan. I was making a joke when I said kirk committed treason. Now let's play a game.. Any comment after June 30 2018 that you see talking about how they didn't commit treason.. - reply under it with a comment that makes sense, but references a movie title. Example - 'You know you're right.. He really needs to get his lore right. I mean if it was treason... I mean if kirk had.. starfleet would have had to take a stance of 'live and let die'.
Lore Reloaded I'm new to your channel and until I read this,yes I thought you were serious. Just a suggestion but perhaps save the hyperbole and sarcasm for the video and not the title because without knowing its a sort of joke ,if people who love Trek see that title and if they even click on it they may go into watching it already annoyed and its a lot harder to get an audience to follow your humor if they start the trip annoyed at you.
Oru's and Or nots well, you said what I was going to, bit nicer.
NEXT TIME READ THE COURT MASHALL CHARGES! YOU WILLFUL IDOIT!
How can you run a Trek channel and not understand Trekkers. Half of your audience watches the videos *hoping* to catch an error or technicality that can be used to bludgeon you in the comments section. There will be no taking of anything with a grain of salt, no dismissal of hyperbole, no sense of humor on this stuff from the audience, only the lust for loremaster blood. You know this.
So what you're saying is that, like Klingons, Trekkers don't take prisoners.
The Enterprise refit and Enterprise A are the best looking of the Enterprise ships...
so true
Come on guys enterprise J is the best one!
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 sure, if you´re 14 years old neckbeard. Also non-canon.
For sure. For me it’s A, TOS, then E are my favs in order
I wanted to see more of this era (movie era) of ship in the games along with how the weapons fired but nooOoo. It was all about the rounded and well lit 'padded safety bumper' look of tng, and those weapons, their look...their sounds. Were they supposed to be like that? And what about it's captain? Hmm,
Random Bridge Crew Member: "they're powering weapons!"
Picard: "hail them."
R.B.C.M.: "they're firing!"
*bang-boom*
Picard: "damage report."
*boom-bang*
R.B.C.M.: "technobable and we lost more technobable!"
Picard: "raise shields."
*bang-kapow*
R.B.C.M.: "we don't have technobable!"
*boom-boom-TWANGGG*
Picard: "we come in peace *sproing-boom-bang-BANG* we are not here to *pow-boom* attack you."
R.B.C.M.: "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"
Picard: "are you sure they're getting our hails? Maybe *boom* somethings wrong with *bzzzt-kapow* their...
R.B.C.M.: "ABANDON SHIP!"
Picard: "I'll try talking to them in a more stern voice."
R.B.C.M.: "GET TO AN ESCAPE POD YOU SPINELESS OLD FART!"
Picard.: "diplomacy is the way of the federa... *BOOOM*
Being an Admiral and bureaucracy was more like punishment to him than commanding a starship.
There’s a lot of staff officers who would think being sent away on a ship WOULD BE a punishment.
Yeah he probabley reather commanded a faultey Ship than all the shit he had to deal with as a Admiral...the only one who REALY sufferd was Scotty. Pore Guy im pretty sure he needed Therapei. The A was probabley his Personal Nightmare.
Kirk hated bureaucracy, hated the damn red tape to get anything done lol. If he could skirt around and get something done easier, then he would, no matter any consequence to him.
@@mattwho81 Not Kirk watch Generations he basically says as much. It's very clear that he has no interest in being an admiral.
Ironically, the Enterprise A was always my favorite. I kind of pictured myself as an Admiral in modern Trek taking the Enterprise A as my flagship and upgrading her with Voyager’s deployable armor and transphasic weapons.
I am surprised that given the status in Universe around The Enterprise that one of the older ones wasn't the flagship of the SOL System fleet. The A and D/E should have fought along side each other against the Borg.
3 years late, but you kind of can on STO
@@godzillakaijuboy oh?
Awesome upgrade ideas
Kirk didn't commit treason, technically he comitted Mutiny and Piracy. There's a difference. :)
He did more than just that you can also include Insubordination as well when he refused a direct order while he was in the process of stealing the ship. Im, sure there are a few other charges involved in rescuing McCoy as well
@@thomaspurzner6137 But saving Earth the seat of the Federation, Defeating the Klingons and preventing them from getting technical information about Genesis.
So well worth it.
He committed barratry, because he as a ship's master committed actions against the wishes of the owners.
Mutiny is when the crew commits action against the ship's master.
There is a huge difference.
@@juhasznagyjozsef Well go back to the hearing and listen to the charges as presented.
@@obsideon1343 DAs tend to be daft. I really don't care about the charges, I was referring to the things that would stick.
San Francisco fleet yards was around earth. Utopia planetia is around mars
fair
And according to a novel the refit happened partially on the ground.
Just... how, as a lore master, did you put this in a video (and not bother with a final edit to remove that line)? Doesn't missing this sort of simple bit of knowledge ultimately invalidate a lot of your other thoughts on lore?
I'm not trying to start a fight here, I'm just curious: do you bother to do a final edit of your thoughts or lore before you post it? Because this is actually a HUGE (and really, really obvious) miss.
Enterprise no bloody a b c or d had more than 4 shuttles likely as, Galileo 7 exists
Michael Sue Galileo 7 was an episode title
"Chief Engineer's Log: I tink this ship was put tagether by monkeys..." And that is why I love Star Trek V despite all its faults.
Everything to do with Scotty in this movie is why I tink this movie shuid be burned...
by monkeys
I've been a fan of this picture for QUITE awhile now... and I've yet to find these "faults" all these people speak of.
"quite literally, while on the bridge, bulkheads and consoles would randomly begin to explode, with no real rhyme or reason"
I dunno, that sounds pretty typical for most Trek ships.. aside from the Miranda class, in which the entire ship explodes if it gets anywhere near a battle
Totally. Has this guy ever seen Star Trek.
@@skeetmalla Often enough i think...he didn´t...
Anyway...was there ever a onscreen Miranda (except the one in Generations) that did NOT blow up or was drifting around with a dead crew?
I think i´ve seen more Oberths surviving their screen time WITH a living crew than Mirandas...
At least the Mirandas tend to take a lot of punishment before being blowing up (I mean Reliant took a few hits from an albeit badly damaged constitution class with shields down not once but twice and didn't blow up until the Genesis device exploded onboard). To be fair other than those named "Enterprise" the Constitution and Galaxy class also have a habit of blowing up, or being found drifting in space.
LOL.. so many comments being all, "Kirk didn't commit Treason! He committed literally every crime EXCEPT Treason! Treason was the only crime he did not commit!"
Aaah... Kirk, nobody in the history of Starfleet has been promoted to Admiral more often than him... and one sixth of the population of the Alpha Quadrant is genetically related to him.
Kirk is the Lazerus Long without the Immortality. Hi Uncle, Brother, Father Kirk.
......Wait what?
Now Picard was a little more restrained, but even Picard committed crimes in the federation, broke rules, including violating the prime directive, (which Kirk did a lot of that) lol.
@@richardtorz2164 Picard tried to put Kirk in his place by telling him he habe a duty as a starfleet officer. Kirk then shut his bald head up with a reality check. If it was not for me your ass would not be alive son. If I was the writer of that scene. Picard would be dead.
Four shuttles might be more than the original _Enterprise_ had, but on the _Voyager_ that barely would have constituted a snack.
considering how many voyager ate... yeah.
Well you obviously missed the point about all the engineering problems of the Enterprise - A. It was Captain Styles' way of getting back at Mr. Scott
I was thinking the same thing - payback lol
Actually the Enterprise A was the former Yorktown that encountered the probe so it's systems were scrambled. Think EMP blast
I just write up Trek V as a messed-up dream Kirk, Spock, and McCoy shared while drinking/doing sugar at Yosemite. It's much better for continuity that way. I think they even hinted at that at the beginning and end. :)
There was a writer's strike occurring in Hollywood at the time I believe.
@@ladiesgentswegothim and thats why kirk himself wrote the script...
luke allan funny. It’s definitely not my favorite movie but the only thing that really bothers me is the turbolift shaft and the inaccurate number of decks.
24th century Romulan space yay
Even though this was definitely one of the weakest Trek movies, it winds up being one of my favorite, because of the lean on family bonds, and how little blood relation means to that. Like, usually people freely assume that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are basically brothers. But they take it for granted. In V they open that book and ask all the questions, "what does all of this mean? A reckless leader, a sharp-tongued physician, and a zen monk, wtf do they even have in common?" And what better way to demonstrate than by bringing an actual brother to one of them, whom he somehow has even _less_ in common with? I dunno, it just gets me in the feels.
"THEY CAN'T BE SERIOUS! THE SHIP'S IN PIECES AND WE'VE LESS THAN A SKELETON CREW ABORD!!!" -Mongomery Scott
I can still hear Excelsior "konking" out🤣🤣🤣🤣
(bzzt blurb bzzt) "...Good morning, Captain..."
I think that Treason is a bit of a reach. He didn't declare war against the Federation, attempt to overthrow its government, or give aid and comfort to its enemies.
According to Memory Alpha, the charges included conspiracy, assault on Federation officers, theft of Federation property (the starship Enterprise), sabotage of the USS Excelsior, willful destruction of Federation property (again, the USS Enterprise), and disobeying direct orders...but not treason.
Otherwise, I thoroughly enjoyed the video. :-)
Also he brought back a mostly working, if somewhat soggy, BoP and its cloaking device. Considering what the US intel branch did to get samples of soviet fighters that might be a migitating factor. DS9 reiterates that they still value hands on intelligence gathering after all.
Correct, Kirk didn't commit "treason"...the 9 violations of Starfleet law were all mentioned in Kirk's court martial at the end of episode 4, and NONE of them were "treason". He stole a starship, assaulted starfleet officers, destroyed the Enterprise, bah, I forget the rest...conspiracy, etc...but not treason...treason means that he willfully betrayed starfleet secrets to the enemy...he never did that. But I do agree with what Bones said -- if they hadn't saved the world, they would have been mining borite the rest of their lives :)
yeah...try going to the us military, become a commanding officer there. Then steal a heavily armed vessel, attacking fellow soldiers and sabotaging their flagship to then go to a us top secret research facility. Meanwhile (even though for good reason and in self defense) attacking a soviet warship and killing their part of their crew. Next blow up the stolen us warship. Maybe screw around in the timeline (funnily this includes trying to steal radioactive material from another us warship). You saved the world in the process, but good luck not at least being prosecuted for high treason.
You still wouldn't be prosecuted for treason...Treason is very clearly defined as to what actions actions actually constitute treason.
and 30 years prior to this, michael burnham was charged for treason for muteny, and sentenced to prison for life.
She always came across as a kind of nod to the Prince of Wales, a ship that was on her shakedown and not fit for action but needed to be sent out regardless.
It's more like the HMS Hood... a ship with a long and glorious career, well recognized around the world/galaxy, but out of date and severely in-need of refit/overhaul/redesign... sent out because "it's the only ship in the quadrant".
@@wolfshanze5980 Apart from the fact that the Enterprise A was had more advanced tech than the Refit Enterprise...The PoW comparison is more accurate..The Original refitted Enterprise would fit the Situation HMS Hood was in
The 1701-A was a *WARSHIP*, it was made to fight the Klingon empire. Naturally hand phasers would be readily available in various places on the ship, you never knew when you would be in a fight and possibly be boarded.
A warship you say? Well, forgive me if I’m wrong, but in the two instances the Enterprise-A was launched, it failed to protect itself against the Klingons, in the first instance barely had anything working and in the second instance it was a diplomatic mission to end the war against the Klingon Empire. And also
“Starfleet is NOT a military organization, its purpose is EXPLORATION”
Jean-Luc Picard, 24th Century
Sure, @@L1z43vr, and the Supreme Praetor is the Federation's biggest fan!
😉
Thanks Lore, I was taking a sip of coffee when your comment on visual cues came on, I am now cleaning up said coffee LMFAO
The reason for the high power phaser in the galley: creme brûlée torch
Originally the uss Yorktown.
Not alpha canon wise
Lore Reloaded actually yes as it was in the star trek official magazine I got to search mine and see which issue it was that said it but the A was originally the Yorktown.
Barry Bend Lore only believes what is on screen such as TV and film to be alpha cannon.
BeyondDaX the magazine uses episodes movies and scripts for basis and it was one of the few sorces that is not "licensed".
There is a reference in the "Mr. Scott's guide to the Enterprise" that states that Enterprise-A was originally the Ti-Ho (NCC-1798), But no one really considered that cannon. & most people seem to feel & accept that the Yorktown did indeed turn into the Enterprise-A.
I loved the aesthetic of the TMP era uniforms looking pimping ships looking great and for some reason in my head I think the refit Connie looks better than the Galaxy or sovereign
Galaxy and Sovereign have bigger bows, but the refit Constitution has a nice stern.
The refit Constitution is my all-time favorite design
The one thing I can think of that might explain the minor changes from the first movie Enterprise from the second is that the first one was a full retrofit of the original TOS Enterprise while I highly suspect the Enterprise A was built from scratch, no refitting of an older ship.
Shuttle "landed" that's a way to put it. I call it crash
Crashing is just landing with style ;-)
Depends if it can take off again. If it can it's a landing. If it can't it's a crash
Donovan Porter and landing you can walk (or stagger) away from...
Azean whatever you say launch pad Mcquak
It's a good landing if you can walk away from it. It's a great landing if you can use the shuttle again.
According to Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise which came out after Star Trek IV, the Enterprise A had a version of Trans Warp drive
Treason. You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
What's wrong with a disintegrating phaser in the galley? Do you have any idea how hard it is to clean up after cooking traditional megazoid cuisine?
fair
Dint Guinin have a compression rifle in 10 forward.
It's for after telling the cook to stop the annoying whistling or that should put in sult (ha).
Have you ever been a cook on a ship with a large multi-cultural crew? I haven't but I'm sure that phaser comes in handy at dinner time. Besides, when it an Enterprise not being boarded?
Migrant Thought Yes but I'm pretty sure that's her personal weapon.... and what bar doesn't have a compression rifle/sawn off shotgun/axe behind the counter?
Sybok (may he never be mentioned again - pretty sure he won't) was definitely malevolent. Not intentionally, he was being manipulated by the being at the centre of the galaxy. According to the novel he was extraordinarily gifted telepathically, which also made him vulnerable to the creature. His sacrifice at the end is supposed to be him realising he's been duped, and redeeming himself. The novel is a bit better than the film, it's worth a read even though it's not good, it's short enough that you don't really feel like you've wasted a lot of time, and it does a good job of patching the holes in the screenplay.
I always assumed the Enterprise A was a re-named Constitution refit that had either been rushed into service, or had been just poorly built or damaged and repaired.
I suspect the whole gassious phenomena thing was a script re-write - my guess is early revisions of the script had the Excelsior crew building the torpedo using their on-board equipment, as they made a special point to mention it earlier in the film - then later versions of the script changed it to the Enterprise to give the original crew more screen time, but no effort was made to explain why the Enterprise suddenly had the equipment required on-board. Much as I love Star Trek VI, it has a lot of this kind of sloppy-rewrite stuff in it.
I think it was supposed to be the Excelsior Crew using it as they came to the rescue, but Shatner was against the idea because he didn't think Kirk would ever need anybody's help.
1.)I had to stop this video @5:20-5:56,pause and take a breath to prevent myself from silently screaming. I don't see how any serious Star Trek fan who has seen VI could have possibly missed the fact that the Enterprise was part of the gaseous anomaly survey. It was practically impossible to miss,as Uhura's pivotal moment in the film referenced it specifically.
Uhura:"Well, what about all that equipment we're carrying to catalogue gaseous anomalies? ...Well, the thing's got to have a tail pipe."
It's not exactly a throwaway line, nor one that can easily be missed or forgotten.
2.) The first sentence of your essay brings up an interesting question, though: what kind of relationship did Sybok have with Michael Burnham of the Discovery? Or should we put her in the same category as Sybok? That is to Say Never Again mentioned in polite company in regards to any discussion of Star Trek?
The Enterprise-A had transporters in Star Trek 5... they just didn't work, like so many other things on the ship. That nearly nothing worked correctly was a big part of the opening scenes.
My personal head-canon is that the Ent-A was originally the Yorktown, which was damaged during the Whale Probe incident, and possibly had its whole crew die.
Or it was an uncommissioned Constitution-Refit that was built by Engineering cadets as their graduation project... with a barely passing grade.
And the "take away the pain" thing Sybok did with anyone he met could have been a simple mind meld. But without the mental self-control that Vulcans usually use he might have subconsciously applied brainwashing to make people agree with him after a lifetime of being considered a quack.
Tezunegari. Perhaps something like the mind rape thing shown in Enterprise? Those two events seem awfully similar compared to the usually benign melds we often see.
LOL! That cadet project theory is my new head canon now! That's hilarious!
@DrewLSsix
Now that you remind me... yes, that would actually make sense. But in Syboks case I would really see it as a subconscious effect because in his mind he really is just helping the person and the person is just thankful for it. And he is using the mind meld correctly.
The mind rape, or rather the resulting illness in Enterprise was if I remember correctly a result of an incorrectly carried out mind meld.
Tezunegari and further extrapolated we could probably point to a bunch of events involving bike valves that illustrate the risks of the process. Early on the Mind meld was typically used to provide information or communication in the story, but later on was often used as a more dramatic tool. Stats on McCoy in Star Trek 3 are a good example of potential risks I suppose, or what the card went through when helping ambassador Sarek. I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of right now🤔 how about Spock's difficult interrogation of mister Saavik? With the concept of the Mind meld being what it was in Enterprise that seem feels a little more uncomfortable doesn't it?
Tezunegari I thought it was cannon they took another constitution and renamed it enterprise as well as doing extensive retrofits
We technically see so little of the 1701-A, so I really like to explore that era more. I know some Trek books are set between movies 5 and 6.
I dislike the fact that they simply replace it with the 1701-B in Generations where we saw no actual decommissioning of it.
@@musicalhistory4392 That was implied to happen sometime after the end of Star Trek VI, whenever they get back from "Neverland."
It always did feel like their ship was being decommissioned awfully quickly. Especially after we see that TNG era fleets still include OTHER Constitution class and Excelsior class ships. What the heck.
How do you consider that crime to be treason? Theft/destruction of starfleet property and disobeying orders isn't treason, their intentions weren't to harm the Federation.
Agreed. Treason is generally defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. When did Kirk and his crew do that?
Well, he's on the political Right (his self-assessment, not mine). EVERYTHING more serious than jaywalking is treason to the right.
Hyperbole
TheScholar74: He's on the right, I'm on the left and we get a long great. We even work together. As a society, we've got to get out of these echo chambers and learn to work together again. Otherwise, we're all doomed.
Depends where on the spectrum the individum ar. I'm not discussing with far-right guys the right of my existence (i'm "mixed").
Wasn't the Enterprise-A originally the decommissioned Yorktown?
I dont kniw if it was the Yorktown but if was DEFENTLEY a older Constitutan Class Ship that was simpley given a new name.
Supposedly yes, it's on trekipedia and when i was a kid, got an Enterprise-A model for Christmas from my aunt not too long after 6 came out and on the manual paper it says that the Yorktown was rechristened to Enterprise-A, which does explain why it was such bad shape after they gave it to Kirk , according to trekipedia, all it's systems got badly damaged by the probe and it most likey been towed back to Spackdock for refit, shows the crew got reassigned and that's about it, as McCoy put it when they were all in that pod "the bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the Universe" he was probably right on the money there, here's this still broken down Constitution class ship there barely halfway in shape and when they decide to give Kirk back his command and a ship after all that happened, Starfleet probably asked if there were any ships available, probably sone friends of Capt Styles and Spacedock personel who were probably still embarrassed by Kirk stealing the Enterprise from under their noses and sabotaging Excelsior like "yeah, we got ship here😜quite the hunk of shit...I..I mean fine ship here sir, Only the best for Captain Kirk😉!" renamed and repainted it and was like "She's ready to go😂" it's just a thought but makes sense a little bit
1701 Alpha is my all time fave. This is mostly because STVI is my fave of the movies, but also because Nicholas Myer brought back the submarine look.
The refit Constitution class is my favorite. I love NCC 1701-A. It just had a certain character to the ship.
R...r...r red alert!
Also remember there is no point of reference between when the Trial Scene occurred and the Enterprise Revile. Could have been days, could have been years. The gap between Star Trek 4 and 5 is better defined, the Fact that Scotty quotes the last line of Star Trek 4 shows that it is fresh enough in his mind. Maybe Months later. With an added 3 weeks.
As far as the Enterprise -A, if you recall, the Constitution Class starships were outdated. The original Enterprise was to be decommissioned, in StarTrek 3, before Kirk self destructed it.
A couple of years ago I tweeted at Michael Okuda about the Star Trek IV bridge set. He said it was damaged in a rain storm between movies, hence why there was redesign for Star Trek V.
I genuinely like ST5. It has a lot of great moments.
Yes. I loved the character development and interactions
Kirk didnt really commit treason, he did commit other crimes but nothing even close to treason. How would it have looked after Kirks heroics starfleet convicted and sent him to prison ?
Only you could think up a theory like this. Classic LR! ;-)
My theory has always been that NCC-1701-A was made of spare parts left over from all of the Constitution-Class Ships getting Refit around 2274. In stead of building a whole new ship, they just used the spare parts. It may even have leftover parts of pre-refit enterprise. The only new piece is probably the frame, and that may have even been from another decommissioned Constitution-Class.
Lore you forgot that the Enterprise NCC-1701-A was a originally the Yorktown NCC-1717. The Yorktown NCC-1717 was recommissioned as the Enterprise NCC-1701-A in 2286 and eventually retired from service in 2393.
Sure, is that in an Alpha Canon resource I missed?
from the Yorktown Memory Alpha, Star Trek Encyclopedia, USS Enterprise Owners' Workshop Manual (I have this book)
The Enterprise A being the Yorktown since it was disabled by the Whale Probe would explain why most of the systems don't work on the ship.
THose aren't Alpha Canon - that's interesting though. I didn't know that or I most certainly woudl have included it.
It makes sense that the Yorktown was renamed as Starfleet did not create a Constitution class in the time from when it originally returned to spacedock in Part 3. Like was said before, although it was not screen said or even novel wise, there's no mention of it, Starfleet would not commission a "NEW" Constitution class ship, only to decommission it 7 years later, etc. So maybe the Yorktown was over 20 years old like Enterprise? I dunno :)
Guillermo Velasco there was one in space dock. As well the Yorktown should look different.
Okay first off I have no idea why the Enterprise A was sitting in space between earth and the moon and not in spacedock, considering the repairs. The biggest issues with the ship was that it was not a refit like the original Enterprise but built from the ground up with new systems not included in the original Enterprise. This was the reason for the issues, as most of the systems were new, untested, and experimental.
Secondly, The issue with not many ships being near Earth, was moreso due to the fact that the Federation at this time was at peace and thus most if not all of their ships were either watching the Klingon or Romulan Borders, or they were involved in deep space survey and exploration. This is a common issue with the Federation and Starfleet and why the Federation usually at the beginning of any conflict is heavily on the defensive taking losses. The Federation prefers using diplomacy to settle disputes and isn't an entirely military organization who's guiding principle is defense and holding areas, at this time I believe most of the Federation ships were pushing through the remaining alpha Quadrant areas and into Beta Quadrant. The NX-2000 Excelsior was in spacedock being redesigned due to the Transwarp failure, but rarely with Starfleet send an Experimental ship into a dangerous situation, also the Admiral stated that there were other ships, but none with the experience of Kirk......
Third, all Starfleet Vessels were equipped with scientific equipment, including those that study gaseous anomalies, this was due to Starfleet's purpose being exploration and surveying scientific anomalies.
Fourth, Phasers were spread around the Enterprise, in case of boarding actions, in Starfleet in the Federation as Captain Picard stated in 'The Neutral Zone'
"PICARD: We may indeed. Those comm. panels are for official ship business.
RALPH: If they are so important, why don't they need an executive key?
PICARD: Aboard a starship, that is not necessary. We are all capable of exercising self-discipline. Now, you will refrain from using them."
In Scotty's guide to the Enterprise-A. It states the "A" was the last ship of the class and more of a test bed ship for the new classes of ships. The US Navy has done that a couple of times before. So it happens in the real world. The book talks about how the bridge was made module for quick change over. It was also supposed to have transwarp drive.
Interesting
Lore Reloaded from what I understand"Scotty's guide to the Enterprise-A" was written in connection with ST4. In the book the A was the Ti-ho. And I have been told if to look at the bridge plate it saids that. Like they just painted the new name on it and that's it. Also you can see it in space dock and I was told it said Ti-ho.
Ya know, this video makes complete sense! Very interesting perspective. 🤟😎
Gaseous stellar anomaly sensors. If Enterprise A was due to be decommissioned, what were they doing installing brand new equipment on it?
To see if it blew up using them. (Test dummy)
The decision to retire Enterprise could have come during or after the survey. Kirk mentioned at the beginning of the film after the Gorkon briefing at Starfleet Command that the crew was due to retire in three months and Spock implied in his conversation with Valeris,that while he himself would be stepping down at the end of the mission, the Enterprise herself would continue in service:
SPOCK:"This will be my final voyage on board this vessel as a member of her crew. Nature abhors a vacuum. I intend you to replace me."
(Here, I must freely admit that Spock could have been aware of, and indeed was referring to,the upcoming Enterprise-B under construction in spacedock,but I'm going to go with Occam's razor on this one)
Therefore, in my mind, especially given all the evidence presented in the film, it is indeed likely that Starfleet made the decision retire Enterprise herself after the battle of Khitomer,for one, if not all of these reasons. 1.) Starfleet decided to retire the Enterprise along with her crew as a sort of a tribute to her service to the Federation. 2.)From a more practical standpoint, the Enterprise was probably so heavily damaged by her battle with the Bird-of-Prey, that any attempt to repair her would have been impractical.(This I have a hard time believing, as the Enterprise was a newer ship, in line with the Excelsior class herself, and thus, the parts necessary to repair her were likely available. 3.) The new Excelsior-class ships, particularly the refit design as depicted by the Enterprise-B, were becoming more and more available, so Starfleet decided to phase out the older Constitution-class ships.
The Enterprise A is actually my favorite Enterprise. Though its not may favorite Star Trek ship. That would be the Excelsior. Though my favorite show ship is the Defiant.
Sha-Ka-Ree was named for Sean Connery because Executive Producer Harve Bennett wanted him for the role of Sybok. Connery declined, so they went with Lawrence Luckinbill.
Chekov is not a helmsman; he's the navigator. He never actually sits at the helm or pilots the ship in any of the three films mentioned. In addition, he is also the tactical officer in the first film (as he mans the weapons station), and also resumes that role in the second film when brought aboard the Enterprise again. The third film reveals that he is also the chief of security (although this was hinted at in the first film as well). He only resumes navigation duties again during Star Trek V and VI, although he seems to maintain his role as tactical/security chief. In the original series, Chekov also doubled as science officer when Spock was away. In the Abrams films, Chekov is navigator, assistant science officer, and assistant chief engineer (later promoted to chief engineer), who is also the most capable crewmen who can operate the transporter. Apparently, Chekov is the one crew member who can do any job on the ship!
You should check out the graphic novel "Star Trek: Ashes of Eden". Takes place a little while after the battle of Khitomer. They use a decommissioned Enterprise-A. Most systems were removed. And in order to get it running again, they must buy black market Klingon parts, and Romulan weapons. It's quite a fun little read you might like. I think it does a good job of giving the ship one last send off. Might be a good idea for a video in the future.
Who was the publisher? DC? Image?
David Alan Gay - It was published by DC comics.
Thanks! :)
That graphic novel was based on a real novel written first by Shatner himself (with a ghost writer)
Keith Melton - True, but the graphic novel has visuals for the reader. Those pictures can be used to make a future TH-cam video about the Enterprise-A. So I rank it a bit higher on my recommendations (not that books are bad either).
Technically the vertical section of the warp core was on the original refit. (the TNG set having been a redress of the TMP set et al. )
Ah, the mighty Constitution class USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A! LOVE IT! Maybe you should discuss the Freedom class USS Franklin (NX-326). I think that it makes sense, since the USS Franklin was the first starship of United Earth Starfleet to reach the speed of Warp factor 4.
I read somewhere that the Enterprise-A is a re commission USS Yorktown, that is seen being disabled by the whale probe, it’s the one where they survive by deploying a solar sail. That’s why all the systems are screwed up, damage from the whale probe and the emergency repairs the Yorktown crew had to make to get home.
So.......does that mean the I.S.S. Enterprise A ironically does not have phasers everywhere including the galley?
DarkArmedDaddy01 on US Navy ships if you know where to look you can find side arms all over. They still tend to be locked up, but they are all over.
It does not need phasers everywhere... You go to the Captain's Cabin and make people disappear from there.
If the mirror universe had guns in the galley there would be a new head chef every day lol.
When you're talking about the deflector dish are you comparing the original satellite dish from TOS to the Enterprise-A, or the refit to the A? If it's the refit, I never noticed a difference.
I can only assume that he’s talking about the change that actually happened after TMP where the dish was ALWAYS lit blue. (Except in stock footage)
Always loved this ship, even though I grew up through the TNG/DS9/VOY era and really like the ships and tech in that era, I still appreciated the TOS era, the original Enterprise is a nice enough ship but was always a bit to simple for me, but the refit built on the original design and became in my opinion a gorgeous ship and is still my favourite Trek design
Just the thought of a weapon everywhere on the ship man. You would really have to trust everyone completely on that ship.
None cannon sources say it was the USS Yorktown-1717
Marc P. Thats why she was so problematic, they never quite got all the decomposing crew gunk out of the jefferies tubes🤮
See the problem is in Scotty's guide they say otherwise. And that book was written with the movie. More problems with writers not liking each other.
So the hole Yorktown thing was just something said as a side note. It not really Canon.
But it makes for a good tongue-in-cheek moment during Star Trek: Beyond when the Ent-A is built at starbase Yorktown, heh.
it's the only way it makes sense. Too short of time to build a completely new ship and since all the first gen Connies were being decomissioned it makes sense to recommsission a sister ship and rename her Enterprise.
Oh please, can't we just pretend STV didn't happen? I mean, the Enterprise is shown having 80+ decks. Where did they hide the skyscaper?
That's it. They broke the ship. They broke the bloody ship!
well ya see subspace tech creates a tardis effect, this has been going on since 1969!
In the infamous Jet Boot scene, they even pass the same decks several times
Weldonwin: Those aren't jet boots, those are magic boots. Because when Spock catches Kirk in the beginning of the movie, he's facing horizontal. If they were jet boots, they should both have been plastered into the side of the mountain. So... MAGIC BOOTS.
Salen Stormwing also the numbers went in reverse of how they were supposed to on a starship! (Well, as the general trend anyway...)
My cat seems EXTREMELY interested in the Enterprise A. She's crawling all over me to try and get a clear look at the screen lol
Decades ago when I was a kid, I given a model of the Enterprise-A complete with LED lighting. Unfortunately, I was too inexperienced to put it together and only ruined it while trying.
Maybe someday I'll pick another one up.
Wasn't the ship commissioned with another name? I read that somewhere
According to behind the scenes material it was the USS Yorktown, which had lost its crew during the Whale Probe incident of Star Trek 4. Which is a little nod to TOS because in an early draft the hero ship of TOS was supposed to be named Yorktown.
I wouldn't considerit it the Whale Probe one. likely a previous ship that had the same name. THere were I think three Mikranada's called Saratoga.
bingo. With Excelsior being tested the Connie's time is coming to an end. while still very useful they have a better ship in the works. The Enterprise was beign used as a training vessel in it's final years after all it be no surprise that some Connies were decommed before her. Hell in Star Trek Continues Kirk comments about how many Connies are eitehr destoryed or beign decommed.
Treason is aid and/or comfort to the enemy. Mutiny and piracy would be better descriptors.
A little Mutiny and Failure to Follow a Direct Order.
No, im pretty sure sabotaging a military flagship and stealing a battle cruiser wil get you charged with treason about anywhere on earth. And in which world does sinking a ship, disabling another and incapacitating soldiers not aid the enemy? (not mentioning playing a part in the destrucction of top secret government research). Edward Snowden did not directly aid any enemy of the united states. Im sure he will be glad to hear he can come back from russia now.
TheVergile I was a Officer in the Navy. You would have to Aid an Enemy or Foreign Power.
again. You are directly decreasing the fighting force of the navy by sinking their ship. That is aiding the enemy. Not like this is a hypothetical discussion. Sabotage in shipyards and military installations has been considered treason in the past wars.
TheVergile Except the Federation was not in a state of war.
Cool but great videw and sweet story
Over a century after the final cruise of the Enterprise - A under Kirk's command, Jack "Picard" Crusher would comment about how the A was his personal favorite, with perfectly clean retro lines. He would also mention how he was Constitution Class man...and I agree with him. When someone mentions "The Enterprise" this one and her refit predecessor jump to my mind. I grew up watching the movies featuring Kirk and crew, so to me this is how the Enterprise looks. The other one I think of is the Enterprise-D, because besides the Kirk-era movies, I remember watching TNG with my family in the early 90's.
Hostile forces tended to board Starfleet vessels. If I was on a ship being boarded, I would love to open a compartment on a wall and just grab a weapon. If you are crew on a pre-Galaxy class ship, you were military. Weapons everywhere was no big deal. However, having weapons everywhere on Picard's Enterprise would have been a bad idea as it was almost a pleasure cruise ship with bunches of civillians and guests.
its a prime example of the cold war mentality they had back then and it returned come DS9 with weapons lockers in cargo bay and any other areas likely to be boarded
Nice.
I have to say that I never thought of the defunct 1701 A as punishment for treason. Nice one. Maybe the reason they had all that gaseous anomaly gear was because Starfleet was going to put Kirk 'out to pasture' in some dark corner of the galaxy scanning nebulae and therefore, keeping him out of trouble with alien governments and alien girls. lol
I'm Lore Reloaded and my favorite channel is Fancy Teeth... crap... I already signed out of your account, didn't I?
Lol
The only reason this ship was called "NCC-1701-A" was because that helped set up Star Trek: The Next Generation later the following year with that show's "NCC-1701-D." BTW, I didn't find that link to Eaglemoss "in the credits below."
That makes sense
That's because I did the credits and I forgot to ask for it. My bad, I'll add it now.
- Jay
Great video, btw. I've got the Ent-A from Eaglemoss coming one of these days. *sigh*
One other set that was borrowed for a movie was Voyager's Sick bay in First Contact... with another lovable extra used too "I'm a doctor, not a door stop"
Hey Lore!! Hope all is going well. First, love you videos. I love your humor. I was wondering.... Are you planning to go to the SDCA Comic Con in July? Also, have you ever considered doing lore videos about the Space Battleship Yamato Universe? Especially the ships.Have a good one.
I promise you it had nothing to do with bridging the series, they used the sets to save money.
Bridging the Series, yeah. That's what we will tell the fans. That's the ticket.
Like when they reused the parts from the motion picture sets for the Enterprise D?
(It was meant to establish a visual continuity of sorts)
With the warp drive however, it was likely the situation that the original refit engine was gone and had been reworked into the E-D
You can explain it that way in the real world, but it also works in universe too and shows the continuity over time.
talesofwar so they built the brand new sparkly new flagship of the federation and threw in an 80 year old engineering design and warp core? Don't see continuity there, just a lack of budget.
I'm speaking more of the vertical rather than horizontal placement of it.
Kirk was approached by a high ranking Federation diplomat to retrieve the body of a Vulcan national so they could inter the body as according to Vulcan customs. Kirk took the request to Star Fleet CnC Admiral Morrow who immediately dismissed the request because he "didn't buy into this Vulcan mysticism" despite having several options at hand including ordering the USS Grissom which was already at Genesis to secure the body. Even sending Kirk and his senior crew to rendezvous with the Grissom wouldn't violate the top secret nature of Genesis since they had already been there and Kirk had full access to the Genesis files. I would like to note that 6 months later Morrow is no longer the CnC having been replaced by Cartwright
Kirk's actions of stealing the Enterprise, sabotaging the Excelsior, results in Kirk preventing a hostile agent, who had already destroyed a Civilian freighter and the USS Grissom, from keeping their hands on a potential weapon of mass destruction but also captured an enemy vessel that the Federation could gain useful information about Klingon advancements. Kirk and crew willingly give themselves up for trail, even being allowed to leave Vulcan under their own steam with no escort (probably as a pretence for Starfleet to get their hands on the ship before the Klingons demand its return)
At no point did Kirk undertake any action to undermine the Federation nor was he operating on behalf of a foreign power. Even the sabotage of the Excelsior only crippled it and since it was only be removing a few circuits probably easily fixed. And the Excelsior wasn't on active duty yet so it shouldn't affect Starfleet combat readiness. So I think calling it Treason is quite a stretch
How serious do yout hink the terrorist comment was?
I know you were being facetious, but do you want to discuss lore or not ;P
and note I heard that thanks to Scooty's sabotage a cirtial flaw in the transwarp drive was found and without itthe ship would have been destoryed.
The refit is the best looking and most interesting ship in the entire star trek history!
Mr. Scotts guide to the Enterprise states that N.C.C. 1701A was installed with transwarpdrive.
I always wondered if they built a whole new Constitution refit (doesn't make sense when they were producing Mirandas and Excelsiors), or if they took some other ship and recommissioned it as the Enterprise-A. If the former, it seems a huge waste considering that chassis was pretty outdated and they ended up completely decommissioning it only a few years later. If the latter, that makes sense.
Kenny Gillis could be that they took a early model ship that was going to be phased out and put it back together again, cleaned the connectors, did a reinstall, updated some parts. Gave it the latest updates.
Lick of paint and it's ready to go, oh except we've had a few issues getting all the old parts, just jam it in and it should be fine.
Well, I am quite certain it is not the Yorktown. The Yorktown shown in "The Voyage Home" was somewhere in deep space, encountering the Catacean Probe. Even if the crew did not manage to survive, the ship has to be found, salvaged and brought back to ESD. It is hard to imagine that Starfleet managed that within days. And why should the Yorktown be in such a bad condition? It just lost energy. No other ship or installation in earths orbit was badly damaged or disfunctional after the probe left.
But on the Enterprise A most systems were broken or simply disfunctional. Also Scotty mentions that the ships was "put together by monkeys", which strongly implies that it was in fact built. In "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" it was a prototype ship of the Constitution II class. Actually I think the ships was orgininally build as a testbed ship for the Excelsior class, three to five years prior to the events of "The Final Frontier". It would also explain why several critical systems like the warp drive are functional, but the transporter or communication systems for example are not. They simply were not needed.
On the other hand, this ship has all modern technologies installed. New warp core, bigger shuttle bay, touch screen interface. Some things we do not even see on the Excelsior, Starfleets top of the line starship at that time. But we see them on the Enterprise B. Well normally it takes roughly a decade or more from research to mass production. So it is not unlikely that the Enterprise had more advanced technology than every other Starfleet ship at that time.
I guess Starfleet never had the intention of commissioning the ship. I am pretty sure they wanted to put it out of service soon, but as Kirk needed a ship they gave him the now renamed Enterprise A. They knew he would be in service for just a couple of years and he basically was a hero. So Starfleet gave him this ship to thank him for his service, but knew that the service of the Constitution class would definitely end with that ship. So the Enterprise A was the last of its kind.
As a matter of fact this could also explain, why the ship was decomissioned after Kirks retirement.
This is my favorite ship in all of Star Trek. I believe this was also the ship that had an old ship's wheel in the Captain's Lounge....?
I grew up on TOS, did watch TNG (and am re-watching it now on Netflix), but didn't really care about the other "Star Trek" shows, as they were not about the voyages of the starship Enterprise (STE sort-of is, but in a very retro kind of way...).
Treason!?... I mean if Kirk had made the 'Skyfall' in a giant 'Spectre'... he must have been thinking 'The World Is Not Enough' (grin)
Sorry, couldn't resist, great vid Lore. B)
“It’s treason, then!”
-Admiral Palpatine
Sybok's motivation never seemed malevolent to me. It was just that he was taking away people's pain and thought that was a good thing when it was really fundamentally changing who they were. It makes sense because for him, the repressive culture of the Vulcans caused him pain, and when he rejected it and left Vulcan, he felt better about himself.
Thats a interesting thought to consider why this ship malfunctioned all the damn time, I never thought that myself till now
The TOS Connie and every derivation thereof were my first Enterprises, so they will always have a special place in my geeky heart.
I like the captions. Funny (at times--mind you these aren't auto-generated)
From what I understand, the Excelsior was originally going to be the ship that used the "gaseous anomaly scanners" to locate the BoP, since it had been studying gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant at the beginning of the film.
The story, which as far as I know is apocryphal, is that they changed it to the Enterprise because William Shatner didn't like the idea that Kirk basically had to be bailed out by one of his former subordinates.
I never thought of this movie like this
I did read somewhere a long time ago that the Enterprise A wasn't a built from scratch ship... when the original Enterprise was refitted in ST:TMP, one of its sister ships, the Yorktown (which was the name the Enterprise was going to have on the original series idea draft), was mothballed. After the events in STIII, the Yorktown was taken out of decommission and went through the same refit the Enterprise had, with a few things updated. When the court martial was over, the refit was "finished", so they renamed the Yorktown to Enterprise, and the reason it had so many bugs all over is the same reason the original Enterprise had bugs in the first movie, it simply wasn't finished, although the bugs this time were more pronounced because this refit was including technology that had appeared since the Enterprise had her original refit, and the integration of so many advanced systems in such an old to the keel ship was not something that could be solved easily... so they gave it to Kirk like "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"
Thanks for the video. Just remember: there is such a thing as "over-positing" Lol!
Maybe this is mentioned elsewhere, but here goes. There is precedent for phasers everywhere can be illuminated in this but if wisdom from my dad’s training in the Vietnam era: he was a repair technician and operative in an intelligence agency, but was required to have basic proficiency with a variety of firearms, and the wisdom behind it was simple - if the base is overrun, everyone is infantry. So having phasers everywhere in the case of boarding makes sense. In (I believe) STTNG “Genesis,” Riker is in Sickbay, and tosses Crusher a phaser to protect herself from Data’s cat, which just happened to be readily accessible. And we also see the Borg invade Sickbay on Enterprise E in First Contact, so having armament strategically accessible in sensitive and otherwise possibly otherwise unprotected areas makes sense, to a degree. Just a thought.
Well, during during one Star Trek events I think it was one of the anniversaries, it features Gene Roddenberry talking about Star Trek and the original pilot while walking around Star track set that featured a vertical warp core. I think it was the 10th anniversary, and this lead me to believe that the original enterprise, always had, while off screen, a vertical warp core!
From what I’ve read, the NCC 1701-a was the last of the constitution class ships built, an re-named.
It had up graded systems to use trans-warp tech( why you see lcars next to switch panels), but ended up being fitted with standard old school warp engines. Which didn’t play well with the newer systems.
Like installing Win-10 on an older system, it just doesn’t work well at all
Even though it’s not considered canon most Trekies believe the Enterprise A was actually the USS Yorktown renamed after the events of Star Trek IV. That could also explain all the malfunctioning equipment seen in Star Trek V because the chief engineer was trying to use a makeshift solar sail to generate power for the Yorktown in Star Trek IV.
Always loved the 1701-A, externally at least. Still hoping to snag a nice model of it sometime soon
I found the 1986 25th anniversary ncc 1701A model with all the parts in plastic still. Needs to be put together with glue and paint and what not. Its over 21 inches long. I could sell it to you for $50 bucks. Remember, its original from 86.
round2corp.com/product/star-trek-u-s-s-enterprise-refit/
I always had the notion that Sybok's powers only augmented his mundane charisma, that he was simply persuasive enough to win over followers with a mind meld for a boost. This is why he couldn't win over Spock or Mccoy, Kirk was also incredible charismatic and was essentially a match for the cultist, mind meld or not. It also suggests that all those others he's won over were somehow promised that Sybok wasn't going to go against Kirk, otherwise I'd imagine Uhura and Sulu would be similarly resistant.
I remember hearing the NCC-1701-a was just a decommissioned Yorktown, hence the broken mess.
Not canon alas
They need to create a Mr Scott Guide to Enterprise-A vol 2. With updated cutaway view and floor plans showing TNG interiors added.
So, they made 30k+ light years in the course of one movie, but the Voyager needed 7 seasons for 70k+ light years. Scotty truly is a miracle worker, but someone apparently forgot to write down the modifications.
The Enterprise A was was built as from the ground up using all the new technology that had come about since the original Constitution (NCC-1700).
The reason that it was messed up was payback by the dockyard engineers for what Scotty did to their pride and joy, the Excelsior. And the reason they sent the Enterprise in stead of transferring Kirk and crew was because they were still sorting out the whale probe mess. As far as differences with the shuttle bay, in TOS there was a lower deck where shuttles were stored and repaired, so we don't REALLY know how many, but there were at least four(Galileo, Copernicus, Columbus, and if you consider The Animated Series canon, the Aquashuttle). But remember these were "just in case", because they were supposed to rely mostly on transporters. Now as far as it being retired at the end of STVI, I'm guessing that there was probably another 5 yers mission between V and VI, and they were in the process of replacing the Constitution Class with Excelsior Class ships. And as for Kirk getting a new ship,
how would the public react to imprisoning the man who had completed at least two five year missions with most of his crew(excluding red-shirts) intact
and who had just saved the Earth AGAIN.
Always loved the Kirk era films, but always wondered why this awesome crew had a seemingly innefficient ship.
I love all your videos, you and Fancy keep it all simple and easy to listen to while I drive. I love the variety that TNG ships have and I'm also annoyed at some of the lack of attention to continuity.
But it generates discussion, if everything was 100% set in stone there would be none...
👍