"Ah, Warden, no, I'm afraid we can't leave the fate of all of Ferelden up to your dog. Anyone with a leftover ham bone could buy his allegiance..." /cue a piteous sounding whine - he wanted to try...
Yeah I never made Alistair king. He really doesn't want it. Besides, he can't even have heirs and is probably going to die young. There will probably be a civil war down the line. At least Anora only has a 50% chance of being barren (Cailan could have been shooting blanks).
Alistair's right to the throne is challenged, his challenger's honor is in doubt. In the past, such disputes were settled by a duel. Will the landsmeet agree?" "Yes, if it will avoid further bloodshed. But it must be fought according to tradition: *By Strength of arms only*, in single combat, until one party yields." *Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage warden chuckles lightly before queuing up the spells for a storm of the century* Special mention to the rogue Warden with the Ranger spec who can whistle to call a bear to the area, then do nothing but kick Loghain in the groin while it he gets mauled *Almost* to death.
There is that. You can have everyone's support apart from Bann "Buddy whose land is right beside Loghain's and therefore supports him so as not to invoke his wrath." and Loghain can still challenge you to a duel. If he wins, does he then have the support of everyone that just renounced him? Seems silly. Mind you, it's possible to have no support but Eamon's. Loghain calls for you to be arrested and executed, you defeat the attackers and the Grand Cleric declares that there must be a duel to restore order. But I always assumed that option was just there for the politically inept.
Same. Seeing him angry or hurt it heart breaking even if I never play this way. For me Loghain always dies and to hell with Anora. She would make him miserable and I"m sorry but marrying your brothers widow is weird, politics or no.
@@GabiNoIdea Any kind of validity in his arguments was destroyed by his unwillingness to compromise. It really did not need to be a "my way or the highway" kind of scenario.
@@DraculaCronqvist Nah, I don't think it did. His unwillingness to fight beside someone who betrayed and persecuted the wardens multiple times for me feels completely justified. Yes, if you recrute Loghain, he does compromise to the cause, and is even willing to take the final blow. But from the wardens perspective during the Landsmeet, there's absolutely no reason for the PC nor Alistair to trust him, to believe he won't try stab you in the back, as he did before. Also, he was responsible for the death of both Alistair's father figure AND half-brother. He stated mutiple times that one of his major personal objectives was to see justice done to Loghain, his reaction wasn't out of character nor deprived of logical sense. Don't get me wrong, I don't completely hate Loghain, he had his reasons (wich I don't agree at all but understand) and I get the appeal he has to many people, but I also don't think it's fair to say Alistair didn't have a very valid point.
@@GabiNoIdea I don't think you quite understand me, though. I am not saying Loghain didn't do anything wrong. He did (although I do think Ostagar was completely unwinnable. It was only what Loghain did afterwards that was reprehensible). I am simply advocating for it as Riordan himself does - use him as a resource to combat the Archdemon. Let him be a tool. That is his punishment, to be used, then discarded. Alistair does neither himself nor the world a favour by his complete lack of willingness to compromise. He's a child, willing to endanger not only his own country but the entire world for the sake of petty vengeance. But the Grey Warden's purpose is to stop the Blight, because the world will not survive the Blight. For the sake of saving literally every living creature, it is absolutely fair and just to demand a single person forsake his wishes, whatever they may be. The greater good must always take precedence.
When he said "I knew I was never meant to be this happy, I just didn't expect that you'd agree" my heart broke. I could *NEVER* do this to Alistair. Wynne was right, love screws your priorities.
Try romancing him (and not claim the throne as his queen, which only a human noble can do anyway) He will broke up with you without delay, telling you you're sterile and he can't keep you bc he's king. You can beg him to keep you as a vulgar mistress to which he only agrees if he's hardened...Never trust anyone and never let ppl fool you, 90% of them are worse than demons
@@user-kq2gt6yy3o LMFAO RIGHT. I was such a hardcore Alistair fangirl for several playthroughs, like absolutely WHIPPED for him. When I finally decided to see what's Loghain all about (4th time playing the game I believe, just wanted to try out something new) and his absolute HySteRIa threw me off so much lol, but I still clinched to my affection towards him and did as he wanted. THEN I decided to play as a Surana and oh my god, aaaaaa all his charming loving beautiful facade came crushing down after the landsmeet. You've put it so so right - it's literally throwing away all your dignity and begging to become a mistress. What a disappointment and an eye-opener all at once. I've come a long way since 6 years ago when I ever played DA:O hahah. From executing Loghain without ANY second thought and with such strong sadistic pleasure that it scared me lol, to saving him and letting Anora execute Alistair without any remorse (that boon the queen owes me might come useful in the future, I'm not gonna waste it on saving his sorry ass 😂)
@@Li_Tobler oddly enough I think it's healthiest for him to marry anora long term and recruiting Logain. He's helpless in politics and Logain makes an excellent warden.
@@user-kq2gt6yy3o Not only are you a jaded nihilist, but you're also wrong about he game. Alistair doesn't break up with you when he's kind if he's hardened, he specifically says "I don't intend to let you get away. King or no king, I'll make it work." He's aware that 2 Grey wardens trying for a baby will be massively difficult, but again, he is more than willing to try, as long as he is hardened. And your philosophy of "never trust anyone" and that most people are evil is a surefire way of living a lonely ass life with no friends, no partners, no nothing. You're just flat out wrong on all accounts.
why not the dog because we all know the dog would tear loghain up besides aren't dogs really respected in ferreldan think of it having dog as a champion could bring a whole lot of possibilities
nah, in one of his party banters,he tells about his childhood, when he had a mabari, and some orlesian took her to breed with his dog, and returned the mabari all skinny and wounded. that was sad, i totally understood loghain's hatred there
Lets be honest. By this point in the game, the mabari is usually really powerful. Every single point whent into the stat that effected health. He was VERY hard to kill.
Hardened Alistair is the only Alistair I play. He becomes a man, he becomes a king, he makes his own decisions. And I think a hardened Alistair makes the best bloody king Ferelden can have.
+Emnuzuse Alor Hardened Alistair makes the best anything, even if you don't crown him. I love the guy when he's hardened. Unfortunately, for the sake of characterization I've had multiple characters put up with his whiny unhardened ass the whole game, but hardening him as early as possible is one of the biggest enjoyment plussers in the game if he's going to be in your party.
I googled this and the funyy thing is that you are actually right. King Maric was born in 8:37 and if we assume that he and Loghain are the same age, than Loghain is in his early 50's, while according to the World of Thedas, volume 2 Wynne was 19 when she gave birth to his son Rhys in 9:02, meaning she is only 47 during the events of Origins. Which is obviously a lore fuckup from BioWare, or the spirit did a real number or Wynne
Same , I saved her , killed lady cautryen easly without going into the jail ... and make anora rule with alistair and she helped me during the landsmeet... No hate from anybody ... And alistair was hardened so in the epilogue , it's state that they loved each others .... And then I saw this shit with alistair being betrayed o_O...
@@HalfTangible and I can see why people would... take issue with that, but isn't that what a country on the brink of destruction needs? A ruthless, adept pragmatist? At least, that's why I had no issue putting her on the thrown in my canon playthrough. I had an unhardened Alistair, and the country needed a ruler with experience and an actual desire to be there.
@@HalfTangible if you do not mention that you're 'saving' her from Howe, she'll just flee in all the confusion without actually betraying you. I did this in my current playthrough and it was kinda nice, playing by the rules of nobility with her, being vague and cunning. After 6 years of playing DA:O for the first time, only now I came to finally not-hating her lol
HAHA this is literally a collection of THE WORST possible endings of Dragon Age Origins kudos for going out and making all of these crappy dialogue choices for our amusement!
What I fail to realize is that Riordan is a Senior Warden. He is almost in rank with Duncan and being the senior warden present is really the one who should call Loghains fate by the Right Of Conscription. Alistair would then have to accept it as Riordan could claim that Duncan would have done the same thing....*sigh*
He's not a Fereldan warden though. I honestly have no idea whether the Right of Conscription applies across borders. (And more importantly The Landsmeet wasn't going to go with something just because he suggested it.)
@@Robert399 The Right of Conscription does apply across borders. We see this if the Orlesian Warden Commander conscripted Anders in Dragon Age Awakening.
@@Robert399 Touche, but what I was trying to say is the fact that the Right of Conscription was acknowledged and obeyed in other nations besides Anderfels (the birthplace of Grey Wardens) proves that it applies across borders.
@@brahmantyoihsan5938 It's possible but I don't think that's certain. Given each nation has its own branch of the Grey Wardens, it seems quite likely that only the national branch can conscript in that nation.
Warden: Loghain... I wish to confess... I wish to confess... Loghain: You wish to confess? Warden: *looks at the crowd* I am trying to save this land. I am trying to save all of your worthless lives! I should let The Blight kill you all. Loghain: Warden, do you wish to confess? Warden: *turns back to Loghain* Yes, Loghain, I'm guilty. Is that what you want to hear? Loghain: You admit you killed Cailen? Warden: No. Of that I'm innocent. I'm guilty of a far more monstrous crime. I'm guilty of being a warden. Loghain: You are not on trial for being a warden. Warden: Oh? Yes I am. Alistair and I have been on trial for that since you turned your back on Cailen and turned this nation against us. Loghain: Have you nothing to say in your defense? Warden: Nothing but this. I did not do it. I did not kill Cailen, but I wish that I had! *Looks at Anora* Watching that naive manchild die gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores! I wish I was the monster you think I am! I wish I had enough taint for the whole pack of you! I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it! Loghain: Ser Cauthrien! Escort the prisoners to their cells! Warden: I will not give my life for Cailen's murder, and I know I'll get no justice here, so I will let the Maker decide my fate. I demand a trial by combat!
Eamon really should put more faith in Dog. I mean, it could just have gone like this: Dog and Loghain, circling each other... Loghain draws his shield and sword... Dog dives at Loghain, right past his weapons, and pins him to the ground, growling. They wouldn't even have needed a fight! ...Oh, I see why they did that now...
Funny is when they dont allow the dog BUT you can have a Golem that is controled via a control rod as a viable choice OR have Morrigan change to a wolf AND wolf suddenly is OK.
The Paragader The Orlesians where plotting to take Ferleden again but this time through the Royal bedroom rather than the battlefield and those plots where brewing when the blight disrupted them, the plan was to have Cailan set aside Anora with the excuse "she must be barren because she hasn't produced an heir" and dangle the title of "Emperor" in front of Cailan. He was also having an affair with the Empress, whether it was actually sexual or not at that stage wasn't revealed but the correspondence between the two was "familiar" and a lot warmer than the relationship with his Queen. He was known to be led by his wife with Anora being the one thats really on the Throne of Ferelden, when he married Empress Celene it would have been no different. This would happen at the same time there would be battalions of some of the best Knights in Thedas arriving in Ferelden, more than enough to crush any Ferelden resistance to Cailan assuming the Title of Emperor of Orlais and King of Ferelden just with numbers alone let alone their superiority to most of the Ferelden millitas. She is smart enough to wrap Cailan around her finger and plonk an Heir on the Throne with Orlesian blood and no doubt upbringing and priorities Even Arl Eamon was implicated in this plot as he had repeated correspondence with the Empress about the marriage between Cailan and Anora failing to produce an Heir, he was desperate to keep a Theirin on the throne of Ferelden and there where letters where Eamon was encouraging him to divorce Anora in favour of the Empress.. Additonally tt was heavily implied that the Orlesians killed Cailans Father to stop him uniting the Free Marches (mainly Kirkwall, Starkhaven and Tantervale) into a Federation/Union that would form an alliance and mutual protection pact against the Qunari, the Imperium and Orlesians, the Orlesians saw the threat this would impose on their plans so they sank his ship and possibly even captured him. Again not in the past as this was only five years before the Blight started, their plans and plots where ongoing right up until the blight and contiuned afterwards. So in summery they:- -Killed Maric Theirin to prevent him uniting the Free Marches -Where consulting with sympathetic Ferelden Nobles about the marriage with between King Cailan and Queen Anora failing to produce an Heir and working to convince them to encourage Cailan to set aside his "barren" wife of impure common blood, which was cleverly playing a sticking point that annoyed many Ferelden Nobles anyway. Although they all respected Loghain and his ascension from Freeman to Teyrn of Gwaren because of his great deeds and service to his country, having the daughter of a former common man marry their King was a bit much for some of them though. -Empress Celene was having warm, familiar and possibly adulterous relationship and correspondence with King Cailan that was encouraging him to set aside his Queen. -Where trying to plan the Imperial visit to bring that issue to a conclusion when the Blight started. -Using the Blight as an Excuse to fill Ferelden with their finest soldiers in what would essentially be a de facto occupation, nobody would have been in a position to send them home even _before_ the Blight let alone after being mauled by the Darkspawn and the obvious dissension the "unity" of Ferelden and Orlais would have caused with Emperor and King Cailan and Empress and Queen Celene on the Throne with the Empress being the _real_ Queen and Empress and not just in Title while Cailan played with Swords. (Personal conjecture: my own opinion is that shortly after getting pregnant and producing an Heir to both Thrones with enough Therin blood to get support from some Ferelden Nobles poor King Cailan would have suffered a terrible Tourney accident and died from a tragically mistimed blow or flaw in his armour, personal opinion though and not supported in the lore or anything). The unravelling of these plans caused enough political aftershocks in Orlais to pre-empt a Civil War there, the Orlesian Nobles had been demanding another invasion and occupation of Ferelden ever since they lost it to Loghain and Marric (once again not in the past) so she had the carefully constructed plan to take Ferelden through the Royal bedroom but when that fell apart due to the Blight and the death of Cailan Orlesian Nobles demanded an outright invasion instead while Ferelden was weak and the tensions erupted into a Civil War. Loghain was acting as a Patriot, he love his Country and would pay any price to keep them independent from Orlais. When he found out about Cailan and Eamon intending to litterally roll out the red carpet for them, all the way to the Royal bed chamber whilst marching in battalions of their finest troops he felt he had to act even if that meant deposing or even killing his friends Son, his King. The decision to kill Cailan was on the spot, he saw a good chance to credibly remove Cailan by letting the Darkspawn do his dirty work and he could credibly claim his hands where clean. He had however started plots depose him before the Battle of Ostagar, he intended to remove two of Cailans biggest supporters that each had a significant army to go with their political strength. Killing Arl Eamon and wiping out Teryn Cousland and his family would have removed a lot of the opposition to his assumption of power and he initiated those plots weeks before the Battle of Ostagar. Having Uldred take over the Circle would have also bolstered his plans, having the Circle with a gratefull Arch Mage in charge would have been a significant boon. The only part of his plan that was shit and stupid was trying to exterminate the only people that could have killed the Arch Demon, that was due to his practical nature though. He didn't believe in "legends" and he didn't believe that it was a true Blight and that there was even an Arch Demon about. Understandable I suppose but when you a millennia old legend that has been confirmed over and over through history its wise to give it some thought. The legends about the Grey Wardens prowess are not dusty old myths, its a chain of living history passed down for centuries. Same for the Arch Demon, Darkspawn only attack the surface in large organised groups when there is an Arch Demon commanding them. He saw the size of the Darkspawn horder, he should have understood the surface only faces that during a Blight. So yeah, his actions where understandable and in his view for the best interests of an independent Ferelden. Most of his plans where actually pretty good apart from Uldred being a power hungry madman and trying to exterminate the only people that could have stopped the Arch Demon, without Flemeths intervention it would have all come together and his coup would have succeeded because without another option and the actions of the Wardens the Ferelden Nobles would have had to fall in line. Well it would have worked until the Arch Demon snacked on him and led the horde as it completely destroyed Ferelden.
***** I *could* have forgiven you if you hadn't also supported Howe killing the Couslands, poisoned Eamon and made Uldred all crazy for freedom. You pretty much shit all over Fereldan. I could understand shitting on Cailin, but dude...you did almost as much damage as the Orlesians, and you did it to your own country!
I could never send Alistair to the Drunk/Death ending but Loghain is one of the best commanders/warriors Fereldan has ever seen, so I hardened Alistair made him marry Anora and recruited Loghain. Alistair may not be happy but in the end it's what I feel is best for Fereldan. Alistair is king with Anora as his queen so there is no chance of either side plotting to usurp the throne, Loghain becomes a major recruiter for the wardens and gets punished via being sent to Orlais, and the warden lives to fight another day. The End
So you'd spare a traitor, a king slayer? The Wardens were outlawed by Loghain, he sent assassins after you and Alistair, he put up bounties on your heads and killed any Grey Warden supporters. He ruined the chance to ally with Orlais and end a grudge that lasted for several decades because he was unable to get over himself. Every damn person, every family that lost someone at Ostagar; a brother, sister, father, they deserve justice. Letting him live is a slap in the face for everyone that lost someone loved at Ostagar. I killed Loghain personally and his daughter that's nothing more than a ruthless person that desires nothing more than the throne will live the rest of her life in a mud hut in the middle of nowhere for all I care.
MessagerOfHell Orlais: Look at it from Loghains perspective, would you really just let the very same people who murdered countless fereldans for pure pleasure, raped innocent women, and thought of your people as nothing but barbaric dog lovers, waltz back into the land you barely just defended from, because of a naïve king who is basically incompetent at everything except doing swordplay and now wants to play at being emperor. Anora: Your talking about the woman who basically held fereldan together during Cailans rule, without her Fereldan would have been once again orlesian territory due to cailans ignorance on the field of politics and lack of desire to govern his kingdom, why wouldn't I want to keep her on as at least Alistairs co-ruler. As for being ruthless, that's what you have to be if you don't want your subjects to think they can walk all over you. Loghain: And who besides Loghain can say they defeated the most powerful empire in the world, with nothing but his skill and desire to defend his country. Would you the warden who has to be a pragmatist and obtain every useful ally and resource to your side NOT recruit one of the worlds most capable generals to your side? That's all I have for now. mull it over if you like
Miranda Lawson The people that did all those crimes are most likely dead by that time. Cailan saw the possibility to end decades old grudge with Orlais and it all blew off because of some man incapable of getting over himself. If he would have lived longer perhaps people might not have thought he was naive; do you consider him as such because of your one meeting with him or what others said about him? He was brave enough to stand and fight for his people and country and not quit the battle field; he was nailed to a darkspawn idol and left for the crows to mock, for God's sake. Your great warrior and general, I finished off in a duel and I built an army to end the blight. A pragmatic Warden, a nobody and a murderer, pulled off what Loghain and Anora couldn't do. Who ever Loghain was in the past died the moment he almost destroyed the very country he so fervently claimed to protect and the Warden had to pick it up and piece it back together. People can't turn a blind eye to what he did at Ostagar, he abandoned his best friend's son, his king, to the darkspawn and started a civil war over the idea that he could outmaneuver legions of monsters. He even tries to "redeem" himself by tossing himself at the Archdemon and die to slip away from whatever punishment he feared would come. There is no atonement for what he did to all those people and what he did to his homeland; justice demands his life.
MessagerOfHell Fereldan-Orlesian alliance: If you've been following the dragon age story through the books you'll know that more than a handful of orlesian nobles want to follow in their predecessors footsteps in conquering ferelden, in fact they have so many supporters that they've actually split orlais in two and almost killed celene because of her diplomatic approach in dealing with ferelden, so no I don't believe cailans marriage with celene would have worked out. Cailan: In the dlc "return to ostagar" Elric Maraigne said that cailan knew the battle for ostagar was lost, yet he battled anyway. Why? I don't know but would you call King Cailan the man who already knew ostagar was lost yet fought anyway and risked all his forces on a losing battle therefore dooming all of fereldan a good king with a good kingly future ahead of him? my point is that Loghain also knew the battle was lost but didn't want to risk it anyway on a king who wouldn't listen to reason and wait for reinforcements, either from his orlesian deal, or the grey warden treaties. so if you want to blame someone for the loss of life at ostagar blame cailan.
Miranda Lawson I've read the books and know enough lore to compare what happens in Dragon Age with the Hundred Years War. Celene attempted to put old grudges behind her like Cailan did and this made her a target for the insatiable nobles. Anora simply hanged to the throne, she did anything to keep it and was desperate enough to form any kind of alliance to maintain her position. That arrogance when she claimed that she was the only capable person to lead Ferelden made me question her. She simply wanted the throne and nothing more. Anyone knew that death loomed over everyone at Ostagar. They faced an enemy that could erupt out of the ground numbering in the thousands, more or less. Bottlenecking them at Ostagar was the only way to buy time to mass an army to break the horde before it rampaged through the land. A king never shows his fear or gives into despair for the sake of his men. The sentiment of hope and confidence were his downfall probably but I can't help wondering why didn't Loghain stay in the thick of things and simply left Cailan there or even kept Cailan back with him instead. He just wanted to be sure Cailan died so he could have his army intact when he would steal the throne from Anora. Whatever attacked Ostagar that night was not the bulk of the horde but an army that could have been flanked and broken.
dammit. this video brought back so many memories and feelings. my first play through, i made loghain a grey warden and was in absolute shock that allistair left the party for it. i mean, they were romantically involved, the fate of the world was on the line, and you'd think that the more grey wardens there are to kill the damn archdemon the better, right? apparently not. that asshole. it really hurt when he left too. (i kept talking to him afterwards, hoping that he'd come back and that the game wouldn't do that, right? wrong.) and because i invested so much emotionally (and speaking game-wise, i invested A LOT into training alistair too), i ended up reloading the damn thing and made myself his queen (made the deal with morrigan as well). so in a way, because of him i made two decisions i would not have otherwise (damn that asshole), and actually prioritize being with him over the fate of the world at the end. that is how amazing dragon age:origins is though huh. thanks for putting this up :)
The wardens are often willing to overlook flaws for the sake of the blight. Duncan recruited that one cutpurse who tried to rob him, but he was a good judge of character, that theif admitted that he would give up his life and more if it meant stopping the blight. Logaihn was willing to allow the blight to fester for his own power. So no, i dont think duncan would be willing to recruit him.
@@DraculaCronqvist duncan would not have recruited Logaihn. Logaihn allowed the blight to fester for the sake of his own power. That's like the ONLY RULE to being a warden, even the cutpurse duncan recruited said he'd give his life to stop the blight. Logaihn would be a liability, not an asset
@@adriatubert1667 dog he allowed all of cailins forces as well as the grey wardens to die in order to secure power. Enora even has a conversation with him about the blight. He SPECIFICALLY says "This is no true blight. The civil war will be dealt with first, THEN we'll deal with the darkspawn." You didn't pay attention to the game at all.
so I guess you have to have a good romance rating or whatever with Alistair as a Human Noble in order for him to accept your marriage proposal? Surprised that choice's outcome got omitted from this video but I guess its because its been chosen a lot that we've seen it plenty of times lol xD
+Ray Volution Actually, no. You can convince him to acquiesce to a political marriage even if you two aren't romantically affiliated, but you need good diplomatic skills to do so and you have to clear it with him prior to the Landsmeet, where if they're in a romance he won't need convincing and you can just ask him on the spot. (I might be wrong about specific details here, I haven't played the game in a while.)
so does anyone know of an unofficial patch or fix for the memory leak problem in this game?? I have the ultimate edition everything up to date but still after playing more than 40 mins or so the game slows to crawl in loadings and sometimes even in heavy fights. I have to exit the game, eject the cd and put it back in to play properly. It gets really annoying really fast
Fuck anora and logain! There both evil! Anora will NEVER take the throne in my timeline. And Logain gets his head severed from his body. That equals perfection. I dont care what happens next, but those are the only two things that hav never changed in any of my playthroughs.
I am so annoyed about “Joining the wardens is an honor not a punishment” Because I understand you Alistair but have you considered that there are like.... 3 of us?! You would think the seasoned veteran would be of use against an Archdemon! Also, have you even seen what kind of people join the wardens? My Mahariel only joined because if he didn’t he would die painfully, and I am pretty sure many are thiefs or possibly criminals of some kind (Tabris, Aeducan, Brosca, Surana and Amell can technically be if certain paths are choosen) are the ones to join the wardens usually, like, Daveth was straight up a thief who stole from Duncan, even Nathaniel Howe mentions not knowing if it was a punishment or an honor.. And Riordan!, a man who probably knew more people at Ostagar than Alistair, was Alistair’s senior, Duncan’s friend who was tortured is the one to suggest the idea of recruiting Loghain in the first place! Like, don’t know let Loghain starve to death or behead him publically and then put the head on a Spike but at least wait after the archdemon thing so instead of 3 shots at it you got 4!
My Cousland never wanted to join the warden, his hand was forced, Duncan told him he'd help him if he join the warden, and said that in front of his dying father, the anger I felt at the moment, towards Howes and towards Duncan. Joining the warden is keeping a promise to father and mother. Dear maker, and the nightmares and the only 30 years to live, that sounds a punishment to me, not to mention slaying an archdemon cause a warden's life.
Extremely late reaction, but the way Wynne says "I wanted a private word with him since Ostagar anyway..." If I was Loghain, I don't think my breeches would survive unsoiled...
In my last Cousland playthrough I romanced Alistair and ABSOLUTELY betrayed Anora. I promised her I’d support her bid for the throne, and then double crossed her in the Landsmeet and took the throne alongside Alistair myself.
i forget the other wardens name. but he knows about what happens after a warden kills an archdemon. so why couldn't he just take Alister out of the room and secretly tell him what happens? then alister wouldn't have to be so butthurt about logain becoming a warden :P
***** well, they could always lie or something, say he betrayed them and they killed him followed by the archdemon. but even if they didn't lie, I feel like hardened Alister wouldn't mind him redeeming himself.
***** yeah, I picked Alistair to survive, and ever since I talked to someone in inquisition who said "Logain was doing what he thought was right" i've felt bad. because Logain DID do the right thing. if he kept the army there they would have died and fereldan would be left without an army.
i still don't understand why the warden is the one who ultimately gets to decide who becomes ferelden's ruler... it kinda makes sense if you have the human noble origin, but any other origin doesn't make sense to me since you're an outsider.
So, we all know based on the conditions in the game at the time which choice we'd personally pick for getting through the Landsmeet, and I'm sure at least a few of the other people here like to play various characters with different goals and personalities so I'm sure you've had in-character reasons to justify taking multiple positions, but I want to approach this problem from a different angle. For those of you who have played or have knowledge of Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age Inquisition, and are thus aware of the roles Alistair, Anora, and Loghain can play in future games based on what happens here and with the Archdemon, which choices result in your favorite future versions of these characters?
+HeliosKitty I usually like to have Loghain survive the blight as a Grey Warden and sacrifice him during Here Lies the Abyss. It gives him a shot at redemption and serves as a nice bookend to his story. Plus, I get to give my Hawke a break. That means I have limited choices on what to do with Alistair though. I typically set him up to rule beside Anora, because I just can't stand to kill him or let him wander off as a drunk... My second favorite ending though is to have my femCousland rule beside Alistair after Loghain is executed, even if that lands me with Stroud during Inquisition. That man's about as interesting as dirt... but at least my Warden gets to keep her favorite ginger.
I remember beating Loghain as a mage. Basically, I froze him and then turned into a swarm of corrupted wasps. I took little damage in the fight and stung Loghain almost to death. It was a very satisfying fight.
Mostly I go two endings: Alistair is King or Alistair marrying Anora without saving Loghain. Why? Because I love the speech before the battle the way Alistair does it, not that traitorous ear-shattering bitch.
He will get his calling eventually, I think in 25-30 years or so. He became a warden 6 months prior to the Warden. Also in Inquisition, he talks about the calling, and how he hears it (due to the nightmare demon)
He will never stop being a Grey Warden. In theory, yes, he will no longer act with them, but in practice, the taint will remain in him and he will hear the Calling and die miserably. 30 years if he is exceedingly lucky, much sooner if not.
Am I the only one who thought it was a good idea to let Anora rule? Honestly, she's a good queen. Her father's mad, something she herself admitted. If you're not her enemy, she wouldn't consider execution as the first option for Alistair. Alistair gets to do what he does best, Anora does what she does best, and Loghain dies. Win-win to me.
Knowing what I know after playing the game, I wonder. Would Alistair still have objected to Loghain joining the Wardens if Riordan mentioned earlier that killing an Archdemon REQUIRES a dead Warden?
@givensurname1296 But the question is, would Alistair be down with letting Loghain join if he knew that his death was a certainty. He dies in the Joining, or killing the Archdemon.
@givensurname1296 I'm not sure, though. Having to force him to do the ritual probably has more to do with his feelings for Morrigan (a combination of general distrust and genuine hatred).
@@GSSAGE7 - You think he hates Morrigan more than he does Loghain? She's just b*tchy to him; Loghain left all the Wardens (and his brother) to die and then told everyone the Wardens were traitors.
Sparing Loghaine really makes Alistairs shit life worse. He hates Loghaine. The guy is a traitor and is turned successfully into a warden, which Alistair believes is the greatest honor possible. And even so Loghaine views it as a punishment. Which can you blame Alistair for not wamting to stay a warden. He has to become king after all. I mean and his to be wife is Loghaines daughter and she def won't make it easier on him.
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![[UNCUT] ที่นี่ที่แรก ปู - หาญส์ พูดถึงมหากาพย์หนี้สิ้น I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 10 ก.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KDNA9DZ0p4U/mqdefault.jpg)
"Ah, Warden, no, I'm afraid we can't leave the fate of all of Ferelden up to your dog. Anyone with a leftover ham bone could buy his allegiance..."
/cue a piteous sounding whine - he wanted to try...
actually he wanted nothing to do with the crown, he constantly said (after you find out) that he has no interest in being king
Yeah I never made Alistair king. He really doesn't want it. Besides, he can't even have heirs and is probably going to die young. There will probably be a civil war down the line. At least Anora only has a 50% chance of being barren (Cailan could have been shooting blanks).
SogekingSchofield503 - Eh, if a horse can be a consul, I don't see the problem.
LMAO.
@@ashez2ashes SPOILER
Well then goodluck choosing between alistair and hawke
"How cutthroat! Mother would adore her." I love you Morrigan.
Alistair's right to the throne is challenged, his challenger's honor is in doubt. In the past, such disputes were settled by a duel. Will the landsmeet agree?"
"Yes, if it will avoid further bloodshed. But it must be fought according to tradition: *By Strength of arms only*, in single combat, until one party yields."
*Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage warden chuckles lightly before queuing up the spells for a storm of the century*
Special mention to the rogue Warden with the Ranger spec who can whistle to call a bear to the area, then do nothing but kick Loghain in the groin while it he gets mauled *Almost* to death.
There is that. You can have everyone's support apart from Bann "Buddy whose land is right beside Loghain's and therefore supports him so as not to invoke his wrath." and Loghain can still challenge you to a duel. If he wins, does he then have the support of everyone that just renounced him? Seems silly.
Mind you, it's possible to have no support but Eamon's. Loghain calls for you to be arrested and executed, you defeat the attackers and the Grand Cleric declares that there must be a duel to restore order. But I always assumed that option was just there for the politically inept.
I lol'd when Eamon denied the dog.
My heart is breaking for Alistair. I can do torture scenes in GTA but I can never do that to Alistair.
Same. Seeing him angry or hurt it heart breaking even if I never play this way. For me Loghain always dies and to hell with Anora. She would make him miserable and I"m sorry but marrying your brothers widow is weird, politics or no.
Wtf torture scenes?
Landsmeet [party comments] | Dragon Age: Origins
or
A very bad day on the job for Alistair
More like "Alistair throws an unjustified fit for several minutes that dooms him."
@@DraculaCronqvist unjustified? really? the way he expressed himself was indeed very immature but he DID have some very valid points...
@@GabiNoIdea Any kind of validity in his arguments was destroyed by his unwillingness to compromise. It really did not need to be a "my way or the highway" kind of scenario.
@@DraculaCronqvist Nah, I don't think it did. His unwillingness to fight beside someone who betrayed and persecuted the wardens multiple times for me feels completely justified. Yes, if you recrute Loghain, he does compromise to the cause, and is even willing to take the final blow. But from the wardens perspective during the Landsmeet, there's absolutely no reason for the PC nor Alistair to trust him, to believe he won't try stab you in the back, as he did before. Also, he was responsible for the death of both Alistair's father figure AND half-brother. He stated mutiple times that one of his major personal objectives was to see justice done to Loghain, his reaction wasn't out of character nor deprived of logical sense. Don't get me wrong, I don't completely hate Loghain, he had his reasons (wich I don't agree at all but understand) and I get the appeal he has to many people, but I also don't think it's fair to say Alistair didn't have a very valid point.
@@GabiNoIdea I don't think you quite understand me, though. I am not saying Loghain didn't do anything wrong. He did (although I do think Ostagar was completely unwinnable. It was only what Loghain did afterwards that was reprehensible). I am simply advocating for it as Riordan himself does - use him as a resource to combat the Archdemon. Let him be a tool. That is his punishment, to be used, then discarded. Alistair does neither himself nor the world a favour by his complete lack of willingness to compromise. He's a child, willing to endanger not only his own country but the entire world for the sake of petty vengeance. But the Grey Warden's purpose is to stop the Blight, because the world will not survive the Blight. For the sake of saving literally every living creature, it is absolutely fair and just to demand a single person forsake his wishes, whatever they may be. The greater good must always take precedence.
The voice acting in this game is so good it transcends the material. Everyone here is amazing.
Most of the time
Except Anora. feels like she's getting fed her lines clause by clause, what with the weird unnatural pauses.
"I have a nice smile, I'm told"
Oh my god.
Lourdes t
I cant belive he actually told that!!REALLY!??
Alistair do have that much burn in him that skinned knees would be anora's least concern
When he said "I knew I was never meant to be this happy, I just didn't expect that you'd agree" my heart broke. I could *NEVER* do this to Alistair. Wynne was right, love screws your priorities.
Try romancing him (and not claim the throne as his queen, which only a human noble can do anyway) He will broke up with you without delay, telling you you're sterile and he can't keep you bc he's king. You can beg him to keep you as a vulgar mistress to which he only agrees if he's hardened...Never trust anyone and never let ppl fool you, 90% of them are worse than demons
@@user-kq2gt6yy3o LMFAO RIGHT. I was such a hardcore Alistair fangirl for several playthroughs, like absolutely WHIPPED for him. When I finally decided to see what's Loghain all about (4th time playing the game I believe, just wanted to try out something new) and his absolute HySteRIa threw me off so much lol, but I still clinched to my affection towards him and did as he wanted.
THEN I decided to play as a Surana and oh my god, aaaaaa all his charming loving beautiful facade came crushing down after the landsmeet. You've put it so so right - it's literally throwing away all your dignity and begging to become a mistress. What a disappointment and an eye-opener all at once. I've come a long way since 6 years ago when I ever played DA:O hahah. From executing Loghain without ANY second thought and with such strong sadistic pleasure that it scared me lol, to saving him and letting Anora execute Alistair without any remorse (that boon the queen owes me might come useful in the future, I'm not gonna waste it on saving his sorry ass 😂)
@@Li_Tobler oddly enough I think it's healthiest for him to marry anora long term and recruiting Logain. He's helpless in politics and Logain makes an excellent warden.
@@user-kq2gt6yy3o Not only are you a jaded nihilist, but you're also wrong about he game. Alistair doesn't break up with you when he's kind if he's hardened, he specifically says "I don't intend to let you get away. King or no king, I'll make it work." He's aware that 2 Grey wardens trying for a baby will be massively difficult, but again, he is more than willing to try, as long as he is hardened. And your philosophy of "never trust anyone" and that most people are evil is a surefire way of living a lonely ass life with no friends, no partners, no nothing. You're just flat out wrong on all accounts.
wyne: I wanted to have a talk with him since ostagar.
oh shit wynne. I've never heard her say that
why not the dog because we all know the dog would tear loghain up besides aren't dogs really respected in ferreldan think of it having dog as a champion could bring a whole lot of possibilities
+Spencer Pauley Loghain loves mabaris, he could not hurt dog D:
nah, in one of his party banters,he tells about his childhood, when he had a mabari, and some orlesian took her to breed with his dog, and returned the mabari all skinny and wounded. that was sad, i totally understood loghain's hatred there
Seriously XD It threw me off they wouldn't have him, seeing how Ferelden supposedly has high regards for the mabari =/
Lets be honest. By this point in the game, the mabari is usually really powerful. Every single point whent into the stat that effected health. He was VERY hard to kill.
Hardened Alistair is the only Alistair I play. He becomes a man, he becomes a king, he makes his own decisions. And I think a hardened Alistair makes the best bloody king Ferelden can have.
+Emnuzuse Alor Hardened Alistair makes the best anything, even if you don't crown him. I love the guy when he's hardened. Unfortunately, for the sake of characterization I've had multiple characters put up with his whiny unhardened ass the whole game, but hardening him as early as possible is one of the biggest enjoyment plussers in the game if he's going to be in your party.
I always let Wynne fight him so he can get schooled by an old woman in front of an audience xD
Lol
I think loghain is older than Wynne tho
I googled this and the funyy thing is that you are actually right. King Maric was born in 8:37 and if we assume that he and Loghain are the same age, than Loghain is in his early 50's, while according to the World of Thedas, volume 2 Wynne was 19 when she gave birth to his son Rhys in 9:02, meaning she is only 47 during the events of Origins.
Which is obviously a lore fuckup from BioWare, or the spirit did a real number or Wynne
@hunacean ehh I think it's the setting of the game plus she's female and a mage idk I still like to think of her as 65ish personally
Anora was so nice in my playthrough, welp, I now understand why everyone hates her
Same , I saved her , killed lady cautryen easly without going into the jail ... and make anora rule with alistair and she helped me during the landsmeet... No hate from anybody ... And alistair was hardened so in the epilogue , it's state that they loved each others ....
And then I saw this shit with alistair being betrayed o_O...
That's what happens when you feed the beast, I suppose. A fat, full tiger is less likely to eat you than a hungry one.
Anora is a *very* ruthless pragmatist. She also betrays you immediately after you save her.
@@HalfTangible and I can see why people would... take issue with that, but isn't that what a country on the brink of destruction needs? A ruthless, adept pragmatist?
At least, that's why I had no issue putting her on the thrown in my canon playthrough. I had an unhardened Alistair, and the country needed a ruler with experience and an actual desire to be there.
@@HalfTangible if you do not mention that you're 'saving' her from Howe, she'll just flee in all the confusion without actually betraying you. I did this in my current playthrough and it was kinda nice, playing by the rules of nobility with her, being vague and cunning. After 6 years of playing DA:O for the first time, only now I came to finally not-hating her lol
This should’ve been called how many different ways can u backstab Alistair
HAHA this is literally a collection of THE WORST possible endings of Dragon Age Origins kudos for going out and making all of these crappy dialogue choices for our amusement!
Basically how the darkspawn chronicles begins if Alistair was the one to make these horrible decisions
I love Eamon's response when you try to have your mabari be your champion.
What I fail to realize is that Riordan is a Senior Warden. He is almost in rank with Duncan and being the senior warden present is really the one who should call Loghains fate by the Right Of Conscription. Alistair would then have to accept it as Riordan could claim that Duncan would have done the same thing....*sigh*
He's not a Fereldan warden though. I honestly have no idea whether the Right of Conscription applies across borders. (And more importantly The Landsmeet wasn't going to go with something just because he suggested it.)
@@Robert399 The Right of Conscription does apply across borders. We see this if the Orlesian Warden Commander conscripted Anders in Dragon Age Awakening.
@@brahmantyoihsan5938 No but the Orlesian Warden has been appointed Warden-Commander of Fereldan.
@@Robert399 Touche, but what I was trying to say is the fact that the Right of Conscription was acknowledged and obeyed in other nations besides Anderfels (the birthplace of Grey Wardens) proves that it applies across borders.
@@brahmantyoihsan5938 It's possible but I don't think that's certain. Given each nation has its own branch of the Grey Wardens, it seems quite likely that only the national branch can conscript in that nation.
Damn you, Earl. I want my dog to be the champion!
+SkullCapper *Arl
Warden: Loghain... I wish to confess... I wish to confess...
Loghain: You wish to confess?
Warden: *looks at the crowd* I am trying to save this land. I am trying to save all of your worthless lives! I should let The Blight kill you all.
Loghain: Warden, do you wish to confess?
Warden: *turns back to Loghain* Yes, Loghain, I'm guilty. Is that what you want to hear?
Loghain: You admit you killed Cailen?
Warden: No. Of that I'm innocent. I'm guilty of a far more monstrous crime. I'm guilty of being a warden.
Loghain: You are not on trial for being a warden.
Warden: Oh? Yes I am. Alistair and I have been on trial for that since you turned your back on Cailen and turned this nation against us.
Loghain: Have you nothing to say in your defense?
Warden: Nothing but this. I did not do it. I did not kill Cailen, but I wish that I had! *Looks at Anora* Watching that naive manchild die gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores! I wish I was the monster you think I am! I wish I had enough taint for the whole pack of you! I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it!
Loghain: Ser Cauthrien! Escort the prisoners to their cells!
Warden: I will not give my life for Cailen's murder, and I know I'll get no justice here, so I will let the Maker decide my fate. I demand a trial by combat!
+LukaBlight69 Well done
+LukaBlight69
think that warden needs to work on that anger
+LukaBlight69 This brought a tear to my eye
+LukaBlight69
Guilty of being a Dwarf still works there.
perfect man,damn I need to re watch game of thrones now lol
Id rather marry the archdemon EPIC FAIL XDDDDD
"Yes, well, don't let it get around. I have a reputation."
Soo many different Alistair endings! Sad, angry, devastated... thanks, now I don't have to do a million plays to see them all.
Eamon really should put more faith in Dog. I mean, it could just have gone like this:
Dog and Loghain, circling each other...
Loghain draws his shield and sword...
Dog dives at Loghain, right past his weapons, and pins him to the ground, growling.
They wouldn't even have needed a fight!
...Oh, I see why they did that now...
Funny is when they dont allow the dog BUT you can have a Golem that is controled via a control rod as a viable choice OR have Morrigan change to a wolf AND wolf suddenly is OK.
So..... Alistair can leave the Wardens unpunished, but when Sir Jory tried that at the start of the game he get a knife in the gut :P
No one is alive who could punish him
Rayvell Lp Ow no ? then who is that senior warden there then that makes Loghain do the joining, a figment of the imagination ? XD
animalruless no, the reason ser jory got a knife in the gut, was because he pulled a sword on duncan.
animalruless it probably has something more to do with the fact that ser jory wasn't actually a warden yet
animalruless Well, no one is supposed to know what the joining is, hence the reason Jory was killed.
err. no warden, don't pick you dog to duel XD
All the endings where it goes badly for Alistair I can't do. I killed Loghain and had a hardened Alistair rule with Anora.
The Paragader The Orlesians where plotting to take Ferleden again but this time through the Royal bedroom rather than the battlefield and those plots where brewing when the blight disrupted them, the plan was to have Cailan set aside Anora with the excuse "she must be barren because she hasn't produced an heir" and dangle the title of "Emperor" in front of Cailan. He was also having an affair with the Empress, whether it was actually sexual or not at that stage wasn't revealed but the correspondence between the two was "familiar" and a lot warmer than the relationship with his Queen.
He was known to be led by his wife with Anora being the one thats really on the Throne of Ferelden, when he married Empress Celene it would have been no different.
This would happen at the same time there would be battalions of some of the best Knights in Thedas arriving in Ferelden, more than enough to crush any Ferelden resistance to Cailan assuming the Title of Emperor of Orlais and King of Ferelden just with numbers alone let alone their superiority to most of the Ferelden millitas. She is smart enough to wrap Cailan around her finger and plonk an Heir on the Throne with Orlesian blood and no doubt upbringing and priorities Even Arl Eamon was implicated in this plot as he had repeated correspondence with the Empress about the marriage between Cailan and Anora failing to produce an Heir, he was desperate to keep a Theirin on the throne of Ferelden and there where letters where Eamon was encouraging him to divorce Anora in favour of the Empress..
Additonally tt was heavily implied that the Orlesians killed Cailans Father to stop him uniting the Free Marches (mainly Kirkwall, Starkhaven and Tantervale) into a Federation/Union that would form an alliance and mutual protection pact against the Qunari, the Imperium and Orlesians, the Orlesians saw the threat this would impose on their plans so they sank his ship and possibly even captured him.
Again not in the past as this was only five years before the Blight started, their plans and plots where ongoing right up until the blight and contiuned afterwards.
So in summery they:-
-Killed Maric Theirin to prevent him uniting the Free Marches
-Where consulting with sympathetic Ferelden Nobles about the marriage with between King Cailan and Queen Anora failing to produce an Heir and working to convince them to encourage Cailan to set aside his "barren" wife of impure common blood, which was cleverly playing a sticking point that annoyed many Ferelden Nobles anyway. Although they all respected Loghain and his ascension from Freeman to Teyrn of Gwaren because of his great deeds and service to his country, having the daughter of a former common man marry their King was a bit much for some of them though.
-Empress Celene was having warm, familiar and possibly adulterous relationship and correspondence with King Cailan that was encouraging him to set aside his Queen.
-Where trying to plan the Imperial visit to bring that issue to a conclusion when the Blight started.
-Using the Blight as an Excuse to fill Ferelden with their finest soldiers in what would essentially be a de facto occupation, nobody would have been in a position to send them home even _before_ the Blight let alone after being mauled by the Darkspawn and the obvious dissension the "unity" of Ferelden and Orlais would have caused with Emperor and King Cailan and Empress and Queen Celene on the Throne with the Empress being the _real_ Queen and Empress and not just in Title while Cailan played with Swords. (Personal conjecture: my own opinion is that shortly after getting pregnant and producing an Heir to both Thrones with enough Therin blood to get support from some Ferelden Nobles poor King Cailan would have suffered a terrible Tourney accident and died from a tragically mistimed blow or flaw in his armour, personal opinion though and not supported in the lore or anything).
The unravelling of these plans caused enough political aftershocks in Orlais to pre-empt a Civil War there, the Orlesian Nobles had been demanding another invasion and occupation of Ferelden ever since they lost it to Loghain and Marric (once again not in the past) so she had the carefully constructed plan to take Ferelden through the Royal bedroom but when that fell apart due to the Blight and the death of Cailan Orlesian Nobles demanded an outright invasion instead while Ferelden was weak and the tensions erupted into a Civil War.
Loghain was acting as a Patriot, he love his Country and would pay any price to keep them independent from Orlais. When he found out about Cailan and Eamon intending to litterally roll out the red carpet for them, all the way to the Royal bed chamber whilst marching in battalions of their finest troops he felt he had to act even if that meant deposing or even killing his friends Son, his King. The decision to kill Cailan was on the spot, he saw a good chance to credibly remove Cailan by letting the Darkspawn do his dirty work and he could credibly claim his hands where clean.
He had however started plots depose him before the Battle of Ostagar, he intended to remove two of Cailans biggest supporters that each had a significant army to go with their political strength. Killing Arl Eamon and wiping out Teryn Cousland and his family would have removed a lot of the opposition to his assumption of power and he initiated those plots weeks before the Battle of Ostagar.
Having Uldred take over the Circle would have also bolstered his plans, having the Circle with a gratefull Arch Mage in charge would have been a significant boon.
The only part of his plan that was shit and stupid was trying to exterminate the only people that could have killed the Arch Demon, that was due to his practical nature though. He didn't believe in "legends" and he didn't believe that it was a true Blight and that there was even an Arch Demon about. Understandable I suppose but when you a millennia old legend that has been confirmed over and over through history its wise to give it some thought. The legends about the Grey Wardens prowess are not dusty old myths, its a chain of living history passed down for centuries. Same for the Arch Demon, Darkspawn only attack the surface in large organised groups when there is an Arch Demon commanding them. He saw the size of the Darkspawn horder, he should have understood the surface only faces that during a Blight.
So yeah, his actions where understandable and in his view for the best interests of an independent Ferelden. Most of his plans where actually pretty good apart from Uldred being a power hungry madman and trying to exterminate the only people that could have stopped the Arch Demon, without Flemeths intervention it would have all come together and his coup would have succeeded because without another option and the actions of the Wardens the Ferelden Nobles would have had to fall in line.
Well it would have worked until the Arch Demon snacked on him and led the horde as it completely destroyed Ferelden.
*****
I *could* have forgiven you if you hadn't also supported Howe killing the Couslands, poisoned Eamon and made Uldred all crazy for freedom. You pretty much shit all over Fereldan. I could understand shitting on Cailin, but dude...you did almost as much damage as the Orlesians, and you did it to your own country!
@@Tuberuser187 Read the books. King Maric wasn't killed by the Orlesians.
Same, best outcome
aaaaah the dog moment XD now that would had been epic
I could never send Alistair to the Drunk/Death ending but Loghain is one of the best commanders/warriors Fereldan has ever seen, so I hardened Alistair made him marry Anora and recruited Loghain. Alistair may not be happy but in the end it's what I feel is best for Fereldan. Alistair is king with Anora as his queen so there is no chance of either side plotting to usurp the throne, Loghain becomes a major recruiter for the wardens and gets punished via being sent to Orlais, and the warden lives to fight another day.
The End
So you'd spare a traitor, a king slayer? The Wardens were outlawed by Loghain, he sent assassins after you and Alistair, he put up bounties on your heads and killed any Grey Warden supporters. He ruined the chance to ally with Orlais and end a grudge that lasted for several decades because he was unable to get over himself. Every damn person, every family that lost someone at Ostagar; a brother, sister, father, they deserve justice. Letting him live is a slap in the face for everyone that lost someone loved at Ostagar. I killed Loghain personally and his daughter that's nothing more than a ruthless person that desires nothing more than the throne will live the rest of her life in a mud hut in the middle of nowhere for all I care.
MessagerOfHell
Orlais: Look at it from Loghains perspective, would you really just let the very same people who murdered countless fereldans for pure pleasure, raped innocent women, and thought of your people as nothing but barbaric dog lovers, waltz back into the land you barely just defended from, because of a naïve king who is basically incompetent at everything except doing swordplay and now wants to play at being emperor.
Anora: Your talking about the woman who basically held fereldan together during Cailans rule, without her Fereldan would have been once again orlesian territory due to cailans ignorance on the field of politics and lack of desire to govern his kingdom, why wouldn't I want to keep her on as at least Alistairs co-ruler. As for being ruthless, that's what you have to be if you don't want your subjects to think they can walk all over you.
Loghain: And who besides Loghain can say they defeated the most powerful empire in the world, with nothing but his skill and desire to defend his country. Would you the warden who has to be a pragmatist and obtain every useful ally and resource to your side NOT recruit one of the worlds most capable generals to your side?
That's all I have for now. mull it over if you like
Miranda Lawson
The people that did all those crimes are most likely dead by that time. Cailan saw the possibility to end decades old grudge with Orlais and it all blew off because of some man incapable of getting over himself. If he would have lived longer perhaps people might not have thought he was naive; do you consider him as such because of your one meeting with him or what others said about him? He was brave enough to stand and fight for his people and country and not quit the battle field; he was nailed to a darkspawn idol and left for the crows to mock, for God's sake.
Your great warrior and general, I finished off in a duel and I built an army to end the blight. A pragmatic Warden, a nobody and a murderer, pulled off what Loghain and Anora couldn't do. Who ever Loghain was in the past died the moment he almost destroyed the very country he so fervently claimed to protect and the Warden had to pick it up and piece it back together. People can't turn a blind eye to what he did at Ostagar, he abandoned his best friend's son, his king, to the darkspawn and started a civil war over the idea that he could outmaneuver legions of monsters. He even tries to "redeem" himself by tossing himself at the Archdemon and die to slip away from whatever punishment he feared would come. There is no atonement for what he did to all those people and what he did to his homeland; justice demands his life.
MessagerOfHell
Fereldan-Orlesian alliance: If you've been following the dragon age story through the books you'll know that more than a handful of orlesian nobles want to follow in their predecessors footsteps in conquering ferelden, in fact they have so many supporters that they've actually split orlais in two and almost killed celene because of her diplomatic approach in dealing with ferelden, so no I don't believe cailans marriage with celene would have worked out.
Cailan: In the dlc "return to ostagar" Elric Maraigne said that cailan knew the battle for ostagar was lost, yet he battled anyway. Why? I don't know but would you call King Cailan the man who already knew ostagar was lost yet fought anyway and risked all his forces on a losing battle therefore dooming all of fereldan a good king with a good kingly future ahead of him? my point is that Loghain also knew the battle was lost but didn't want to risk it anyway on a king who wouldn't listen to reason and wait for reinforcements, either from his orlesian deal, or the grey warden treaties. so if you want to blame someone for the loss of life at ostagar blame cailan.
Miranda Lawson
I've read the books and know enough lore to compare what happens in Dragon Age with the Hundred Years War. Celene attempted to put old grudges behind her like Cailan did and this made her a target for the insatiable nobles. Anora simply hanged to the throne, she did anything to keep it and was desperate enough to form any kind of alliance to maintain her position. That arrogance when she claimed that she was the only capable person to lead Ferelden made me question her. She simply wanted the throne and nothing more.
Anyone knew that death loomed over everyone at Ostagar. They faced an enemy that could erupt out of the ground numbering in the thousands, more or less. Bottlenecking them at Ostagar was the only way to buy time to mass an army to break the horde before it rampaged through the land. A king never shows his fear or gives into despair for the sake of his men. The sentiment of hope and confidence were his downfall probably but I can't help wondering why didn't Loghain stay in the thick of things and simply left Cailan there or even kept Cailan back with him instead. He just wanted to be sure Cailan died so he could have his army intact when he would steal the throne from Anora. Whatever attacked Ostagar that night was not the bulk of the horde but an army that could have been flanked and broken.
13:28 Why I love Bioware.
2:48 I laughed so hard I started coughing
Hey, but what happened to the dialogue if Alistair accepts your marriage proposal? And lmao, his rejections to marry the Warden are hilarious.
it must be fought in "MORTAL KOMBAT!"
"Id better marry the archdemon" 😂
dammit. this video brought back so many memories and feelings.
my first play through, i made loghain a grey warden and was in absolute shock that allistair left the party for it. i mean, they were romantically involved, the fate of the world was on the line, and you'd think that the more grey wardens there are to kill the damn archdemon the better, right?
apparently not. that asshole. it really hurt when he left too. (i kept talking to him afterwards, hoping that he'd come back and that the game wouldn't do that, right? wrong.)
and because i invested so much emotionally (and speaking game-wise, i invested A LOT into training alistair too), i ended up reloading the damn thing and made myself his queen (made the deal with morrigan as well).
so in a way, because of him i made two decisions i would not have otherwise (damn that asshole), and actually prioritize being with him over the fate of the world at the end.
that is how amazing dragon age:origins is though huh.
thanks for putting this up :)
Anora - "That is uncharacteristically wise you."
Alistair - "Yeah well, don't let it get around. I have a reputation."
This killed me. lmao!
The way Alistair says to Anora that he's told he has a nice smile at 13:28 is hilarious!! XD
And so many variables with him and Loghain being spared, damn. It comprises the majority of the video.
2:48 Oh i see what you did there........
I was so pissed that they didnt let me choose my dog as champion.
Also Duncan probably would of spared Loghain and recruited him as well.
The wardens are often willing to overlook flaws for the sake of the blight.
Duncan recruited that one cutpurse who tried to rob him, but he was a good judge of character, that theif admitted that he would give up his life and more if it meant stopping the blight.
Logaihn was willing to allow the blight to fester for his own power. So no, i dont think duncan would be willing to recruit him.
That is exactly what Duncan would have done. Alistair can't even follow the example of his mentor. He's a failure as a Grey Warden and a king.
@@DraculaCronqvist duncan would not have recruited Logaihn. Logaihn allowed the blight to fester for the sake of his own power. That's like the ONLY RULE to being a warden, even the cutpurse duncan recruited said he'd give his life to stop the blight. Logaihn would be a liability, not an asset
@@LeeHarveySnoswald if you really think that loghain left the blight unattended only for the sake of power you didn't get Loghain at all
@@adriatubert1667 dog he allowed all of cailins forces as well as the grey wardens to die in order to secure power.
Enora even has a conversation with him about the blight. He SPECIFICALLY says
"This is no true blight. The civil war will be dealt with first, THEN we'll deal with the darkspawn."
You didn't pay attention to the game at all.
3:00 this made me laugh, I had no idea you could do that
In my playthrough, Logain is dead, Alister is king, and the hero of ferelden is queen. And Morrigan has a strange little arch demon child.
The best ending 😅
Lol Zevran's comment. I miss you :(
Sten, I don't know how I feel about you in that mod.
Something about how the Revered Mother yells “In the Maker’s name STOP! We WILL have order!” gives me chills to this day.
It hurts to see this. Alistair has been through so much.
so I guess you have to have a good romance rating or whatever with Alistair as a Human Noble in order for him to accept your marriage proposal?
Surprised that choice's outcome got omitted from this video but I guess its because its been chosen a lot that we've seen it plenty of times lol xD
+Ray Volution Actually, no. You can convince him to acquiesce to a political marriage even if you two aren't romantically affiliated, but you need good diplomatic skills to do so and you have to clear it with him prior to the Landsmeet, where if they're in a romance he won't need convincing and you can just ask him on the spot. (I might be wrong about specific details here, I haven't played the game in a while.)
so does anyone know of an unofficial patch or fix for the memory leak problem in this game?? I have the ultimate edition everything up to date but still after playing more than 40 mins or so the game slows to crawl in loadings and sometimes even in heavy fights. I have to exit the game, eject the cd and put it back in to play properly. It gets really annoying really fast
Alistair and Anora share the throne + Loghain joins Grey Wardens = perfect
She's a greedy bitch.
I love Loghain, but I'd rather have him die than giving Anora a damn thing.
Loghain can rot in hell never ever let him join the wardens. I cut his damn head off every time.
Fuck anora and logain! There both evil! Anora will NEVER take the throne in my timeline. And Logain gets his head severed from his body. That equals perfection. I dont care what happens next, but those are the only two things that hav never changed in any of my playthroughs.
Every scene before 10:59 literally broke my heart into itsy bitsy little pieces 💔💔💔
You didn't do the romance Alistair option of ruling together? ._.'
2:47
What mod you uses to make Sten exactly how i imagined him after DA2?
3:32 he's got a point
I am so annoyed about “Joining the wardens is an honor not a punishment” Because I understand you Alistair but have you considered that there are like.... 3 of us?! You would think the seasoned veteran would be of use against an Archdemon! Also, have you even seen what kind of people join the wardens? My Mahariel only joined because if he didn’t he would die painfully, and I am pretty sure many are thiefs or possibly criminals of some kind (Tabris, Aeducan, Brosca, Surana and Amell can technically be if certain paths are choosen) are the ones to join the wardens usually, like, Daveth was straight up a thief who stole from Duncan, even Nathaniel Howe mentions not knowing if it was a punishment or an honor..
And Riordan!, a man who probably knew more people at Ostagar than Alistair, was Alistair’s senior, Duncan’s friend who was tortured is the one to suggest the idea of recruiting Loghain in the first place! Like, don’t know let Loghain starve to death or behead him publically and then put the head on a Spike but at least wait after the archdemon thing so instead of 3 shots at it you got 4!
My Cousland never wanted to join the warden, his hand was forced, Duncan told him he'd help him if he join the warden, and said that in front of his dying father, the anger I felt at the moment, towards Howes and towards Duncan. Joining the warden is keeping a promise to father and mother. Dear maker, and the nightmares and the only 30 years to live, that sounds a punishment to me, not to mention slaying an archdemon cause a warden's life.
I have a nice smile im told omg fucken cracked up laughing
When anors breaks in and the crowd starts yelling of surprise or something I always laugh I found it really funny. Epic episode btw
Anyone know which mods are being used for the weapons/armor? Looks great.
Extremely late reaction, but the way Wynne says "I wanted a private word with him since Ostagar anyway..." If I was Loghain, I don't think my breeches would survive unsoiled...
Alistair's little smile when he said "Watch me." O.o So creepy...
come on do the dog
I wonder if that imran guy is here, writing paragraphs about his favourite sociopath
In my last Cousland playthrough I romanced Alistair and ABSOLUTELY betrayed Anora.
I promised her I’d support her bid for the throne, and then double crossed her in the Landsmeet and took the throne alongside Alistair myself.
IS THAT A SPACE MARINE OGREN?! how cool is that...
how did you get anora in that white dress?
Your Warden is gorgeous O_O
Wow... this game. I have no idea how to even get some of these reactions! Is it persuasion skill level and approval rating?
i forget the other wardens name. but he knows about what happens after a warden kills an archdemon. so why couldn't he just take Alister out of the room and secretly tell him what happens? then alister wouldn't have to be so butthurt about logain becoming a warden :P
***** well, they could always lie or something, say he betrayed them and they killed him followed by the archdemon. but even if they didn't lie, I feel like hardened Alister wouldn't mind him redeeming himself.
***** your probably right, but I still would've like a persuasion option to get them both.
***** yeah, I picked Alistair to survive, and ever since I talked to someone in inquisition who said "Logain was doing what he thought was right" i've felt bad. because Logain DID do the right thing. if he kept the army there they would have died and fereldan would be left without an army.
***** I feel its kinda King Calin's fault, he got too cocky and when Logain tried to make him take things seriously he ignored him.
***** yea, putting a bounty on the wardens made no sense.
Emotion must not blind one.
ive always wondered, if duncan lived would he forgive loghain and make him a gray warden?
It won't be Alistair's decision since Duncan is his superior.
Duncan would readily recruit Loghain and Alistair would follow accordingly.
@@ValerioRhys yeah that is exactly what ive said
@@eziodelalala1070 Oops sorry, I thought you said "If Duncan lived, would Alistair forgive Loghain..."
@@ValerioRhys haha no worries
This is unrelated but the armors here look awesome, are they from a mod?
i still don't understand why the warden is the one who ultimately gets to decide who becomes ferelden's ruler... it kinda makes sense if you have the human noble origin, but any other origin doesn't make sense to me since you're an outsider.
Probably because you save eamon and have an army at the gates of deremin.
I might understand if it was a noble dwarf because he/she has been in somewhat royal lineage. Anything else espescially elves make no sense
I like Alistair, I think he’s funny. Especially when he said he’s got a reputation to keep up. But god damn it he can be very whiny sometimes.
Why would anyone pick the options that hurt Alistair. It hurts to see him like this
Why does sten look like a DA2 qunari? Is that a mod you can get?
Where did you get those armor sets?
Lol your character the girl looks exactly like my sister haha
your warden is so pretty 😍😍😍😍
So, we all know based on the conditions in the game at the time which choice we'd personally pick for getting through the Landsmeet, and I'm sure at least a few of the other people here like to play various characters with different goals and personalities so I'm sure you've had in-character reasons to justify taking multiple positions, but I want to approach this problem from a different angle. For those of you who have played or have knowledge of Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age Inquisition, and are thus aware of the roles Alistair, Anora, and Loghain can play in future games based on what happens here and with the Archdemon, which choices result in your favorite future versions of these characters?
+HeliosKitty I usually like to have Loghain survive the blight as a Grey Warden and sacrifice him during Here Lies the Abyss. It gives him a shot at redemption and serves as a nice bookend to his story. Plus, I get to give my Hawke a break. That means I have limited choices on what to do with Alistair though. I typically set him up to rule beside Anora, because I just can't stand to kill him or let him wander off as a drunk...
My second favorite ending though is to have my femCousland rule beside Alistair after Loghain is executed, even if that lands me with Stroud during Inquisition. That man's about as interesting as dirt... but at least my Warden gets to keep her favorite ginger.
Owowowowow! OW! Alistair's pain hurts me so much...
Barkspawn can't fight Loghain?? BULLSHIT.
Always want to chop Anora head instead of Loghain's.
I always wanted to do both, shame that Alistair is too kind.
Wish there was a mod to let Dog fight.
What is the name of the mod for the sacred ashes trailer sword?
7:16 broke me
God I love alistair but when he starts complaining I just want to tell him grow a pair and take the dame crown.
Lol. I didn’t even know you can make Loghain a Grey Warden without killing Alistair
What the heck did the Warden do to get Alistair to refuse to marry her like that!
I remember beating Loghain as a mage. Basically, I froze him and then turned into a swarm of corrupted wasps. I took little damage in the fight and stung Loghain almost to death. It was a very satisfying fight.
Mostly I go two endings: Alistair is King or Alistair marrying Anora without saving Loghain. Why? Because I love the speech before the battle the way Alistair does it, not that traitorous ear-shattering bitch.
I didn’t even get a choice to recruit Loghain. Alistair just sliced his head off.
That’s because you made Alistair fight him
OH MY GOD, OGHREN IS A SPACE MARINE!! =D
Watching this hurt
How could Alistair just stop being a Grey Warden though? Won't he still get his calling eventually and die as one?
He will get his calling eventually, I think in 25-30 years or so. He became a warden 6 months prior to the Warden. Also in Inquisition, he talks about the calling, and how he hears it (due to the nightmare demon)
He will never stop being a Grey Warden. In theory, yes, he will no longer act with them, but in practice, the taint will remain in him and he will hear the Calling and die miserably. 30 years if he is exceedingly lucky, much sooner if not.
were did Alistair get his sword
Am I the only one who thought it was a good idea to let Anora rule? Honestly, she's a good queen. Her father's mad, something she herself admitted. If you're not her enemy, she wouldn't consider execution as the first option for Alistair. Alistair gets to do what he does best, Anora does what she does best, and Loghain dies. Win-win to me.
yeah Alistair had no interest over the throne so why even bother?
I love the armor
Knowing what I know after playing the game, I wonder. Would Alistair still have objected to Loghain joining the Wardens if Riordan mentioned earlier that killing an Archdemon REQUIRES a dead Warden?
Probably, considering he doesn't want to do the ritual, you have to convince him, and he'll sacrifice himself if you don't.
@givensurname1296 But the question is, would Alistair be down with letting Loghain join if he knew that his death was a certainty. He dies in the Joining, or killing the Archdemon.
@@GSSAGE7 - No. He'd rather die himself, which was my point.
@givensurname1296 I'm not sure, though. Having to force him to do the ritual probably has more to do with his feelings for Morrigan (a combination of general distrust and genuine hatred).
@@GSSAGE7 - You think he hates Morrigan more than he does Loghain? She's just b*tchy to him; Loghain left all the Wardens (and his brother) to die and then told everyone the Wardens were traitors.
3:31
FUCKING ROASTED
Sparing Loghaine really makes Alistairs shit life worse. He hates Loghaine. The guy is a traitor and is turned successfully into a warden, which Alistair believes is the greatest honor possible. And even so Loghaine views it as a punishment. Which can you blame Alistair for not wamting to stay a warden. He has to become king after all.
I mean and his to be wife is Loghaines daughter and she def won't make it easier on him.
What she said!