I had no idea these weapons even existed and I'm a Romanian who went thru' the mandatory (until 2002) military service. The close-up at 04:40 shows the name of the factory where these were produced. The very same factory used to manufacture sewing machines (!) and the Romanian PM (which is actually an AK produced under license, also a top 3 seller in the USA in the early 2000s). Back in the day, there was a joke about a worker at the Cugir factory who would steal parts of sewing machines every day in order to assemble them at home to then sell the sewing device for extra cash and he would complain to a friend that "no matter how I put the pieces together, it still comes out a machine gun"
Btw, mandatory service ended in January 2005, I was a fireman in the army and ended the service in in February 2004. My dad told Me horror stories about the bad food and said that My attitude would get Me imprisoned most of the service. The food was amazing and the constant exercise and up to 8 fires/day in the most busy times made Me quite healthy. My attitude did get Me into trouble, but being part of the Major State office, I'd escape many punishments by just having LOTS of work, hoping to do as much of it until the next alarm rang. Wasn't that bad, for a prison, 10/10 would never repeat. :D
The Nazi's were the best gun engineers in the 40's, before the collapse. But other nations that were against The Reich made some pretty good stuff as well. I knew an old German man (RIP), and he said the Uzi was the very finest 9mm SMG on the planet, and the Germans would've required more time to replicate it's adequacy. It's heavy because it was designed to mitigate recoil (the MP40 has an optical imbalance as a result of recoil, the Uzi does not.), and ensure accuracy! J
@@ionutandanuta7607 You should know how twisted the WW2 Romanian history ended up being. Romania sided with the Axis, facing the threat of being obliterated by Hitler if they didn't. Then in 1945, with the Axis defeat looming, they had to switch sides and betray the Axis so that they wouldn't be occupied and annexed by Russia, at the cost of losing Bessarabia, half of Moldova and the Southern part of Dobrogea, in addition to a Communist puppet government and the forcible ousting of the constitutional Monarchy, which further led to a full-blown Communist leadership. You can say that Romanians didn't WANT to side with the Nazis and you'd be correct, just as you would be if you said they didn't want to side with the Russians either. Romania has the unfortunate position of being in a strategic location, and having a few resources to offer still (whatever wasn't pillaged by the Germans and the Russians respectively). We can talk at length about history and geopolitics, but the Orita was also unfortunately developed at a time when the overall perception about Romania was of being on the Nazi side. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_in_World_War_II
As a bit of a fan of Romanian WWII history, I'm glad to finally see this on the channel. The Romanians used a lot of these, as well as some German and Italian SMGs. I've also heard tell of prototype projects to convert them into 8x33 Kurz starting in 1944, but which, like the TACAM and Maresal projects got shut down by the Soviets when Romania swapped sides in August of '44.
I'd like to see more about Romanian guns, since I don't normally hear much from there. I also don't know much about Romanian WW2 history (except a little I've read about their resistance movements), but I do know a fair amount about their time under communism, and it's horrifying. The level of torture committed by the communist government is gut-wrenching to read about. I'm glad the Romanian people finally ended it.
@@reliantncc1864 more often then not Romanian stuff is either updates or older weapons. Foreigner designed and bought fire arms. Or they are just so low number you just never hear about it. It’s unfortunate but that’s just the reality of Romanian small arms in ww2. Hungarian firearms are a bit similar to this but Hungarians do have more native designs so they stand out a bit more then Romanian counterparts.
@@robosoldier11 Yeah, most Romanian equipment tended to either be 1) Czech designs produced under license, 2) old Austro-Hungarian weapons either bought before or captured during WWI or 3) Italian and German weapons bought to shore up holes in supply that Romania's comparatively limited industry was having trouble filling
@@nuggs4snuggs516 I always found an interesting dynamic of the war is the approach of countries to make and supply arms to their armies. It’s clear Romania had some vein of technical ability with the design of this SMG and other stuff like armored vehicles/ AT guns. But with everything from money, philosophy or just circumstance. They couldn’t really put as much weight behind their own manufacturing. But that’s just the way it is. Makes ya always wonder how some things would’ve panned out if some things were managed differently.
In Romania, circa 70s & 80s, these were jokingly referred to as the "Original Uzi" because of the first 3 letters in the manufacturer name. Which, by the way, "Uzinele CMC Cugir", Factory Cupsa Mica-Cugir Cugir" the name acquired when Vickers formed, in Paris 1925, a societè which around changed hands to CZ Bruno. Both had invested heavily to help build new plants and modernize the Cugir Arms Factory, which can be traced back to 1798-ish. Today the company still exists as Fabrica De Arme Cugir, the National Arms Factory of Romania in Cugir. They also make the AKM variant WASR-10.
The grip safety is actually a pretty smart way to keep the gun drop safe and I'm surprised how historically we didnt see more open bolt submachine guns use one during WW2
I'm 32 and romanian!! My grandfather had told me about it as he saw a lot of them in late '43! But shortly after he was drafted on the Eastern Front as Cavalry man guarding and taking care of King Michaels horse's and then a machine gunner. RIP heroes!!!
there's is also a Orita Carbine chambered in 9x23mm Steyr, one the rarest Romanian weapons from WW2. Romania also attempted to mass-produce the own heavy armored car called the " Autoblinda.41", which was inspired by an italian armored car of the same name but with a different appearance and a 37mm Gun. I'm still looking for photo's of this experimental armored car lol.
@@tomahoratiu-andreas442 AK74 is in 5.45x39. It's a russian design adopted by Russia in 1974, and Romania adopted the new model later in 1986. Sterca made one in 5.6x39 so not 5.45, in 1983, but the round was designed in USSR in 1950 and used from the late '50s for hunting deer in Russia and also in Finland, and from 1965 was made by Sako and Lapua, so it can't be that bad... Sure it has only 1457J, light bullet, but faster.
Romania is often dismissed as an axis satellite, but in many ways was as big a partner if not more so than Italy. And they used quite a smorgasbord of equipment.
The ț in Orița it's read as Oritza or Oritzza. Interesting is that it's stamped with a line over the a on the end, that look similar to ă but you don't see this in other texts about Orița. Anywey, Orița was a joint Czech-Romanian project and after captain Marin Orița the czech Leopold Jašek and the romanian Nicolae Sterca are also considered to have contributed to its design
The ă is not in his name, but in every document pertaining to the gun, ă is used instead of a. It might have been used because Oriță rolls of the tongue A LITTLE bit better than Orița.
@@petrucercel9855 It's also more common for Romanian last names to end in -ă than in -a, so a lot of prople probably called him Oriță by mistake 'cause they were "talking on autopilot", so to speak.
Finally you found one ! Thank you so much for the review, this is a piece of Romanian weaponry rarely seen - it was rare to begin with. I have seen one in person at the Muzeul Militar Bucuresti a while ago. That is indeed a collectible. The paratrooper version would be the most desirable, with the folding wire stock
Dear Ian. Few months back (possibly a year) I was asking you to do a video on the Orita Model 41. I dont know if you've seen that comment, or you found the model interresting to share with us, but THANK YOU! My grandfather's squad had these (he was a machinegunner with a ZB VZ.30, but you covered that already ages ago). edit for P.S.: may I direct you to contact the National Military Museum in Bucharest? You may find an interrestign array of weapons, both original and reproductions, possibly an Orita Model 41 as well.
There is a a short magazine made for oritza that holds 11 or 15 rounds , probably 11 but they can only be found in Bucharest in the Military Museum Ferdinand 1 . I happened to travel there specifically for this gun and i was amazed to find this hidden magazine type . Also , one of the experts there claimed there are versions converted for 7.62x25 tokarev . I do happen to have a photo of the short mag and it will be on my community tab short after this comment
One other cool thing they keep in that museum, in the exhibit on the 89 Revolution, is a short Obrez-like Mosin that's also integrally suppressed. Like a DeLisle, but I don't think it was rechambered in a pistol calibre.
@@Jerkzilla oh , yes i've seen that , i was staring at it not understanding what it was . It clearly had the mosin bolt but it looked și odd and nothing like the obrez in BF1 xD
Those type of guns are actually what first got me into this channel, and thereby into firearms in general. Early semiautomatic pistols to be exact. It's been quite a journey since then.
You will have noticed that it's often the simple, even crude guns that are not only effective but long lived. So in a roundabout way the simple guns kids draw are on the right track.
I remember like 5 years ago asking you to do a review on this weapon, and you answered you will galdy do so if you found one. Finally!! Great review and thank you!
I waited over ten years for this video. I honestly never thought you'd find one, Ian. This is the unicorn SMG to end all unicorn SMGs. Not an original M.41 but I DO. NOT. CARE. I've waited so long to finally see this firearm, in any form and here it is. This is honestly surreal; it doesn't feel as if I'm truly watching you examine this machine pistol. I'm also shocked the museum allows you to handle this gun without gloves. Many were lost to attrition on the Eastern Front, and as you mentioned; a tendency to snap at the wrist meant that they wouldn't even have enough time to make it into the hands of partisans. If any whole pieces exist, they would very likely be sitting in Russian storage and even that is highly, highly questionable and unlikely. THIS is the rarest production firearm of WWII. For many reasons that go beyond the destruction of the stock during combat (I could talk for hours about this weapon; it's truly an enigma of the second Great War. It has an incredible, nonsensical history that do not involve its design nuances.) As for copies in Romania? Quite sure any surviving arms were purposely destroyed/melted down, as even their extended service in Communist Romania was nothing more than a decision of tenacity to oppose Soviet (Russian) Warsaw doctrine where dictation of SMGs was completely allocated to the AK-47/M Kalashinikov series; something the Chinese and Russian gov'ts literally argued over, because of the obsolesent adoption of the SKS and Chinese reluctance to not waste time manufacturing them. This is also why Chinese T.59 Makarovs are INCREDIBLY rare but likewise INCREDIBLY COVETED by Chinese Special Police, whom procured them in tiny numbers and seldom issue these pistols to anyone but the most capable of their officers. This is true even today; as the fixed barrel is highly considered for its accuracy by Chinese SWAT officers, but again, arguementative politics between CN-RU of the late 50s meant the Chinese mf'd, to spite the Russians, a very low amount of Makarov pistols to throw a stick in the gears of cooperative assymetrical warfare. Sorry, I'm rambling. Ian, thank you for making a dream come true with this video! Edit: GRAMMATICAL CORRECTIONS. I wrote this comment being over 24 hours without sleep; I apologise for where it sounded sloppy for anyone who may have read it! Desolé! Truly sorry! Excitement played a role as well!
Well if it followed the rest of the WW2 sub gun patterns - it should have a barely usable folding stock to be considered a Tankers SMG. Or it needs a 20" barrel.
Perhaps the pivoting sear played a more significant role in the original select-fire 1941 configuration, which was obviated during the conversion to full-auto only. I can picture the sear engagement surface in the FCG popping back up after the trigger is pressed in semi-auto, and the pivoting sear would allow the bolt to pass back over it and reengage.
OMG now I remember where I last saw this firearm, a friend of mine stole it from a rusty attic collection in his grandfather's home, and we took it to Big sur to see if it worked circa. 1984 and it did shoot, but the magazine spring was so old the feeding was horrible/dangerous, but the gun cracked wood and all, still worked like a jewel, God I wish we never put it back, I shot over 300 rounds of PMC with only 5 malfunctions, just wish I knew what they did with those old guns, I know there was a Chrysanthemum Arisaka carbine with a bayonet in there too, sad memories!
I saw the prototype from 1939 of the Orița M1939 carbine (not the later carbine versions) at the National Military Museum in Bucharest last December. Super rare, probably the one in the museum is the only one. I've seen no pictures of it online, although I have taken some myself. It had a wooden stock and body and a 10/15 round 9mm magazine. Super cool rifle prototype that is worth more investigation.
A question about something I've never seen talked about: do grip safeties affect accuracy? I myself never fired a gun with a fired a gun with such safety, that's why I'm asking.
Not really. Often the spring pressure behind them is very weak so it isn't like you are exerting a lot of force to hold them down. Just aim as normal and you will be fine.
Nope, early Lugers had grip safety but still the best army adopted pistol up to 80m, better then Sig 210 and used by swiss for target shooting up to much later pistols from the '70s like Benelli, etc. Also early Colt 1911 had grip safety, and also H&K P7 has grip safety and that one is made with a fix barrel gas dalayed so as to be more accurate, and by the wey, H&K P7 has a front grip safety.
Thanks a lot, Ian for bringing these little pieces of history of my country and my people. Some time ago you posted another video about Orița submachinegun, and that was the reason I subscribed to your channel. It is nice to see people interested about this kind of stuff, but, in the same time, it is sad that almost none of my fellow Romanians is interested in Romanian firearms history. Thanks again
6:25 that levered firing pin also strikes the cartridge at around twice the speed (depending on where the pivot point is) that it would if it was fixed in the bolt. maybe it made a difference to fire whatever ammunition they were using more reliably, or to combine reliable firing with a relatively controllable recoil?
I hadn't thought of it imparting extra force to the primer, but that is indeed a possibility (although not a given). One drawback with such a system tho, is the lack of advanced primer ignition. I suspect this is why they incorporated the buffer into the bolt design.
@@Ass_of_Amalek I see. So greater kinetic energy then. Makes sense... if the math works out. The velocity is squared but the mass of the firing pin alone is quite small compared to the whole unit. You understand what I'm getting at. Be interesting to see the actual numbers for that.
@@dollabz777 I don't know how that's calculated, maybe. I think if the primer cap is soft enough, the lever apparatus is going to result in the firing pin deforming the primer compound at a higher velocity, like a sharper impact sort of thing, and faster impacts are generally better at setting off impact-sensitive explosives. though that may not have been necessary at all, and maybe it was just for the purpose ian explained (preventing out of battery firing by only making the firing pin protrude from the bolt as the bolt closes).
I’m glad you were finally able to get a hold of one of these a make a video on it. Very neat subgun and truly rare, I wonder if even a single one made it over to the US. I know there are a few MP41’s over here (which the Romanians also used).
They had at least two of these in the Bucharest Army Museum, which I went round in 1992. This was not at the time open to the public and I had to have a special visit arranged by the British Embassy. It may now be open to the public. I was followed by two suited men all the way round, which I found rather amusing. My particular interest was the M1893 Mannlicher Rifle.
Would love to hear how some of these items got in the collection. Did they get them through the open marker? Picked up from the battlefield? Acquired clandestinely?
This is a nice advanced design. With modification to allow manufacturing with a tube receiver, I could see this as a very practical weapon. Anyone have relatively close to first hand knowledge of actual reliability of this weapon? Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
@Marvin De Bot I had read that one but Thank you. I wondered if there was any marked difference (in reliability etc.) between the earlier and the 48 model modifications? Take Care, John
That was the time when Romanian manufacturing was at its best. Things were done the right way or not at all. What followed after the war ruined everything, including people's attitude towards work and life in general.
During the WW2, the Romanian industry produced the IAR 80 fighter plane in different variants. It is not surprising that the same industry could produce a simple automatic weapon.
I get the intention, but... Aeronautical industry is NOT the same as the Cugir Factory (joint Czech-Romanian company when it started), which produced firearms and sewing machines. Is like saying: it's no wonder US Industry can produce can produce the domino pizza, they were the same people that made Tesla (made by an Afrikan dude with 2 more country citizenships).
Looks like an MP41 but with a cheaper design. Are you going to take this to the range? I’m interested in see how accurate it is and how controllable it is.
MP41 uses a stamped receiver, a simpler bolt, and probably other simpler parts, so I think it was cheaper. ian's video on it states that it was mostly made for export to romania, to be used alongside the orita.
Any other people when their country is mentioned on this channel: OMG thanks Ian, love you covering the history of this weapon and my country in war Germans: ..... Cool Gun......
First half of the 20th century artistry, craftsmanship, and quality in a firearm were a matter of pride , dependableity was paramount to designers and manufacturers, works of art
A bolt mounted sear! I made many sketches using the same idea many years ago. I knew about the thompson firing pin but I didn't know about this sear, the grip safety and the bolt handle.
Just a thought that I'm sure would not have escaped Ian's eagle eye...mightn't the grip safety also depress the pivoting sear to prevent the open bolt from closing? I'm just picturing in my mind the various bits and orientation of parts...
One thing i caught on the manufacturing engravings was that the name is actually pronounced "oritzu". with u as in "uh.." small detail i know, but still worth a mention
At first I was gonna say that this thing looks kinda like an M3 grease gun with a stock added, but after showing the function and machining of the various parts, I’d say it’s probably a much higher quality SMG than the M3.
But it lasted in service until the 1980's... so well designed, well manufactured, well respected??? Could always have been tarted up with new wooden "sideplates?
you really don't understand anything, it was manufactured from the end of 1942 until the 50s, and was modified only in 1948! it is clearly stated here but you probably don't understand very well
I was hoping to see an evaluation of this sub-machine gun as my father, a 20-21 years old second lieutenant in '43-'44, in his capacity as a platoon commander in a mounted infantry regiment, was equipped with the older, unmodified version of the gun. The designer's surname spells "Orița" - note the comma under the "t" and the Romanian pronunciation is probably similar to how a native English speaker would pronounce "Oritza". Later in life my father followed a legal carrier and I cannot refrain an emotional smile when I remember how he offered free legal advice to some of his former troopers who invariably addressed to him with "second lieutenant".
I think it's supposed to be pronounced "Oritsa" after Căpitanul Marin Orița. There is a 1949 paratrooper version with a pistol grip and an adjusted grip safety lever, I recommend looking it up.
I find it a little curious that they went with a proprietary magazine instead of using the MP-40 pattern. As allies of Germany they must have had a significant number of those and it would make a lot of sense to use the same one.
Actually, the Germans were rather stingy with their equipment (and rightly so, as they did not have a lot of weapons to spare), so the MP40s were really really rare in the Romanian Army. Most commonly, they were to be found with soldiers on the front lines, who had lifted them off some deceased German soldier.
Thanks, Ian! I'm glad to see this, finally!... I've always struggled to find documentation on our Romanian SMGs, knowing that we only had Czechoslovakian ZBs and German MP 40s, however, I knew there was THIS, somewhere out there. I couldn't find any documentation on it! Thank you once again! Great content! I really like your presentation!
One of my friends father actually worked on manufacturing the gun... I think he has some schmatics and numbers regarding it... he worked a very long time in Cugir
I had no idea these weapons even existed and I'm a Romanian who went thru' the mandatory (until 2002) military service. The close-up at 04:40 shows the name of the factory where these were produced. The very same factory used to manufacture sewing machines (!) and the Romanian PM (which is actually an AK produced under license, also a top 3 seller in the USA in the early 2000s).
Back in the day, there was a joke about a worker at the Cugir factory who would steal parts of sewing machines every day in order to assemble them at home to then sell the sewing device for extra cash and he would complain to a friend that "no matter how I put the pieces together, it still comes out a machine gun"
Classic joke! XD
Poti s o zici in Romana?
Ce sa te invete aia in armata pe vremea aia . Doar slaveala
Thank you for your service
Btw, mandatory service ended in January 2005, I was a fireman in the army and ended the service in in February 2004. My dad told Me horror stories about the bad food and said that My attitude would get Me imprisoned most of the service. The food was amazing and the constant exercise and up to 8 fires/day in the most busy times made Me quite healthy. My attitude did get Me into trouble, but being part of the Major State office, I'd escape many punishments by just having LOTS of work, hoping to do as much of it until the next alarm rang. Wasn't that bad, for a prison, 10/10 would never repeat. :D
That's a really nice, well-designed and manufactured SMG that does not deserve to be forgotten.
The Nazi's were the best gun engineers in the 40's, before the collapse. But other nations that were against The Reich made some pretty good stuff as well. I knew an old German man (RIP), and he said the Uzi was the very finest 9mm SMG on the planet, and the Germans would've required more time to replicate it's adequacy. It's heavy because it was designed to mitigate recoil (the MP40 has an optical imbalance as a result of recoil, the Uzi does not.), and ensure accuracy! J
@@ghostwriter1415 Bud, the orita is not a nazi gun
@@ghostwriter1415 romanians are not nazis
@@ionutandanuta7607 You should know how twisted the WW2 Romanian history ended up being. Romania sided with the Axis, facing the threat of being obliterated by Hitler if they didn't. Then in 1945, with the Axis defeat looming, they had to switch sides and betray the Axis so that they wouldn't be occupied and annexed by Russia, at the cost of losing Bessarabia, half of Moldova and the Southern part of Dobrogea, in addition to a Communist puppet government and the forcible ousting of the constitutional Monarchy, which further led to a full-blown Communist leadership.
You can say that Romanians didn't WANT to side with the Nazis and you'd be correct, just as you would be if you said they didn't want to side with the Russians either. Romania has the unfortunate position of being in a strategic location, and having a few resources to offer still (whatever wasn't pillaged by the Germans and the Russians respectively).
We can talk at length about history and geopolitics, but the Orita was also unfortunately developed at a time when the overall perception about Romania was of being on the Nazi side.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_in_World_War_II
@@jmanfishh I know all this shit because I'm romanian
As a bit of a fan of Romanian WWII history, I'm glad to finally see this on the channel. The Romanians used a lot of these, as well as some German and Italian SMGs. I've also heard tell of prototype projects to convert them into 8x33 Kurz starting in 1944, but which, like the TACAM and Maresal projects got shut down by the Soviets when Romania swapped sides in August of '44.
I'm not sure that a conversion to 8x33 would work, given that this is a simple blowback.
I'd like to see more about Romanian guns, since I don't normally hear much from there. I also don't know much about Romanian WW2 history (except a little I've read about their resistance movements), but I do know a fair amount about their time under communism, and it's horrifying. The level of torture committed by the communist government is gut-wrenching to read about. I'm glad the Romanian people finally ended it.
@@reliantncc1864 more often then not Romanian stuff is either updates or older weapons. Foreigner designed and bought fire arms. Or they are just so low number you just never hear about it. It’s unfortunate but that’s just the reality of Romanian small arms in ww2. Hungarian firearms are a bit similar to this but Hungarians do have more native designs so they stand out a bit more then Romanian counterparts.
@@robosoldier11 Yeah, most Romanian equipment tended to either be 1) Czech designs produced under license, 2) old Austro-Hungarian weapons either bought before or captured during WWI or 3) Italian and German weapons bought to shore up holes in supply that Romania's comparatively limited industry was having trouble filling
@@nuggs4snuggs516 I always found an interesting dynamic of the war is the approach of countries to make and supply arms to their armies. It’s clear Romania had some vein of technical ability with the design of this SMG and other stuff like armored vehicles/ AT guns. But with everything from money, philosophy or just circumstance. They couldn’t really put as much weight behind their own manufacturing. But that’s just the way it is. Makes ya always wonder how some things would’ve panned out if some things were managed differently.
In Romania, circa 70s & 80s, these were jokingly referred to as the "Original Uzi" because of the first 3 letters in the manufacturer name. Which, by the way, "Uzinele CMC Cugir", Factory Cupsa Mica-Cugir Cugir" the name acquired when Vickers formed, in Paris 1925, a societè which around changed hands to CZ Bruno. Both had invested heavily to help build new plants and modernize the Cugir Arms Factory, which can be traced back to 1798-ish. Today the company still exists as Fabrica De Arme Cugir, the National Arms Factory of Romania in Cugir. They also make the AKM variant WASR-10.
As a romanian, this was the fastest click on notification in my life 🇷🇴
la fel)))
Romania mentioned
+1
Habar nu aveam ca am facut noi asa ceva 😅
Honestly same
The grip safety is actually a pretty smart way to keep the gun drop safe and I'm surprised how historically we didnt see more open bolt submachine guns use one during WW2
Any safety adds complexity and cost.
Don’t the bolt lock of the mp40 and ppsh also kinda accomplished the same goal tho since they physically lock the bolt of the gun
Cheaper and faster just to add a notch for the bolt to be put in to.
@@c1ph3rpunk That's a cheap and fast safety, but that's not a drop safety.
@@Stevarooni who cares
I'm 32 and romanian!! My grandfather had told me about it as he saw a lot of them in late '43! But shortly after he was drafted on the Eastern Front as Cavalry man guarding and taking care of King Michaels horse's and then a machine gunner. RIP heroes!!!
there's is also a Orita Carbine chambered in 9x23mm Steyr, one the rarest Romanian weapons from WW2. Romania also attempted to mass-produce the own heavy armored car called the " Autoblinda.41", which was inspired by an italian armored car of the same name but with a different appearance and a 37mm Gun.
I'm still looking for photo's of this experimental armored car lol.
What time is it? It's jmantime!
That carabine is so rare just because only a single rifle has been made.
We also had a remote mine prototype (like the Goliath) that weighed 2 tons
@@stayhungry1503 No, but there is a surviving picture of it.
My grandfather used one in 1944! He said it was a very good weapon.
Thank you for showing one to us!
By the way the name is Oriță /ori:tsə/.
Oritza not Oriță, ai dreptate cu Ț dar nu cu ă
@@MrQ454 Hmm, pe armă scrie cu Ă. Am vazut ca e Orița, dar ma intreb de ce au folosit Ă la ștanțare.
@@andreidmny Captain Marin Orița
nu pare Ă, probabil că e un defect de ștanțare
Orița /o'ri.tsa/, actually. Basically ț=ts, Ian.
Pronounced like Pizza
Nicolae Sterca must not be forgotten whenever you hear the 1941 Orita SMG. A legend!
Nicolae Sterca should not ne forgotten . Neither the 5.8x39 ak he made for Ceaușescu
@@chriswizardman6384 Were you thinking of 5.6x39? Pretty common hunting caliber, and Ceaușescu was well-known for enjoying hunting.
@@tomahoratiu-andreas442 ah , yes , got the number wrong
@@tomahoratiu-andreas442 nu știu cine s-a gândit să folosească un ak pentru vânătoare dar îl urăsc
@@tomahoratiu-andreas442 AK74 is in 5.45x39.
It's a russian design adopted by Russia in 1974, and Romania adopted the new model later in 1986. Sterca made one in 5.6x39 so not 5.45, in 1983, but the round was designed in USSR in 1950 and used from the late '50s for hunting deer in Russia and also in Finland, and from 1965 was made by Sako and Lapua, so it can't be that bad...
Sure it has only 1457J, light bullet, but faster.
What a brilliant open bolt design. The engineering here is super unique and complicated. In a good way!
Romania is often dismissed as an axis satellite, but in many ways was as big a partner if not more so than Italy. And they used quite a smorgasbord of equipment.
Lots of damn fine engineers down there in the Balkan and Eastern Mediterranean states.
We literally fuelled the hell out of the german war machine by providing most of our oil
@@chriswizardman6384 Awesome.
On top of fighting a war Romania also had to keep Molasar in prison. That wasn't easy!
@@AshleyPomeroy good one
The ț in Orița it's read as Oritza or Oritzza. Interesting is that it's stamped with a line over the a on the end, that look similar to ă but you don't see this in other texts about Orița. Anywey, Orița was a joint Czech-Romanian project and after captain Marin Orița the czech Leopold Jašek and the romanian Nicolae Sterca are also considered to have contributed to its design
The ă is not in his name, but in every document pertaining to the gun, ă is used instead of a. It might have been used because Oriță rolls of the tongue A LITTLE bit better than Orița.
@@petrucercel9855 Daca e duci si intrebi un batran din satul unde s-a nascut o sa vezi ca-i spune "a lui Oriță".
@@mihai.r-beekeeper5694 Pe documente e scris fara ă, ceea ce m-a mirat si pe mine. Oriță suna mult mai corect decat Orița.
@@petrucercel9855 It's also more common for Romanian last names to end in -ă than in -a, so a lot of prople probably called him Oriță by mistake 'cause they were "talking on autopilot", so to speak.
@@Dominator150395 Sau pur si simplu ă-ul a fost substituit cu un a din greseala la inceput si asa a ramas.
Finally you found one ! Thank you so much for the review, this is a piece of Romanian weaponry rarely seen - it was rare to begin with. I have seen one in person at the Muzeul Militar Bucuresti a while ago. That is indeed a collectible. The paratrooper version would be the most desirable, with the folding wire stock
This has to be the most high-tech bolt of any SMG from WW2. It even has a name: it's called "Poor Resource Allocation".
Dear Ian. Few months back (possibly a year) I was asking you to do a video on the Orita Model 41.
I dont know if you've seen that comment, or you found the model interresting to share with us, but THANK YOU!
My grandfather's squad had these (he was a machinegunner with a ZB VZ.30, but you covered that already ages ago).
edit for P.S.: may I direct you to contact the National Military Museum in Bucharest? You may find an interrestign array of weapons, both original and reproductions, possibly an Orita Model 41 as well.
These videos and a cup of coffee in the morning go together quite well
I've been waiting for this video since I first subbed to you. Literally almost 10 years.
I'm glad your patience was finally rewarded!
Oh wow ok lol... that was a good day.
I DONT THINK YOU REALISE HOW MUCH I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU TO POST THIS LITERALLY THERE IS BARELY ANY INFO ON THIS
The amount of joy and kick I get from you covering my homeland firearms is so great I want to jump in my kitchen right now.
There is a a short magazine made for oritza that holds 11 or 15 rounds , probably 11 but they can only be found in Bucharest in the Military Museum Ferdinand 1 . I happened to travel there specifically for this gun and i was amazed to find this hidden magazine type . Also , one of the experts there claimed there are versions converted for 7.62x25 tokarev . I do happen to have a photo of the short mag and it will be on my community tab short after this comment
One other cool thing they keep in that museum, in the exhibit on the 89 Revolution, is a short Obrez-like Mosin that's also integrally suppressed. Like a DeLisle, but I don't think it was rechambered in a pistol calibre.
@@Jerkzilla oh , yes i've seen that , i was staring at it not understanding what it was . It clearly had the mosin bolt but it looked și odd and nothing like the obrez in BF1 xD
Remarkable that an ancient Romanian SMG since before WW2 has an out of battery detonation safety but a modern AR-57 doesn't.
Sometimes these weapons on here look like something I would have drawn in elementary school
😂😂😂😂
Those type of guns are actually what first got me into this channel, and thereby into firearms in general. Early semiautomatic pistols to be exact. It's been quite a journey since then.
I think a lot of kids draw similarly due to seeing old style guns in movies like Indiana Jones
You will have noticed that it's often the simple, even crude guns that are not only effective but long lived. So in a roundabout way the simple guns kids draw are on the right track.
They're iconic for a the same reason - easy to conceptualize and design.
I remember like 5 years ago asking you to do a review on this weapon, and you answered you will galdy do so if you found one. Finally!! Great review and thank you!
I waited over ten years for this video. I honestly never thought you'd find one, Ian. This is the unicorn SMG to end all unicorn SMGs. Not an original M.41 but I DO. NOT. CARE. I've waited so long to finally see this firearm, in any form and here it is. This is honestly surreal; it doesn't feel as if I'm truly watching you examine this machine pistol.
I'm also shocked the museum allows you to handle this gun without gloves. Many were lost to attrition on the Eastern Front, and as you mentioned; a tendency to snap at the wrist meant that they wouldn't even have enough time to make it into the hands of partisans. If any whole pieces exist, they would very likely be sitting in Russian storage and even that is highly, highly questionable and unlikely. THIS is the rarest production firearm of WWII. For many reasons that go beyond the destruction of the stock during combat (I could talk for hours about this weapon; it's truly an enigma of the second Great War. It has an incredible, nonsensical history that do not involve its design nuances.)
As for copies in Romania? Quite sure any surviving arms were purposely destroyed/melted down, as even their extended service in Communist Romania was nothing more than a decision of tenacity to oppose Soviet (Russian) Warsaw doctrine where dictation of SMGs was completely allocated to the AK-47/M Kalashinikov series; something the Chinese and Russian gov'ts literally argued over, because of the obsolesent adoption of the SKS and Chinese reluctance to not waste time manufacturing them. This is also why Chinese T.59 Makarovs are INCREDIBLY rare but likewise INCREDIBLY COVETED by Chinese Special Police, whom procured them in tiny numbers and seldom issue these pistols to anyone but the most capable of their officers. This is true even today; as the fixed barrel is highly considered for its accuracy by Chinese SWAT officers, but again, arguementative politics between CN-RU of the late 50s meant the Chinese mf'd, to spite the Russians, a very low amount of Makarov pistols to throw a stick in the gears of cooperative assymetrical warfare.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
Ian, thank you for making a dream come true with this video!
Edit: GRAMMATICAL CORRECTIONS. I wrote this comment being over 24 hours without sleep; I apologise for where it sounded sloppy for anyone who may have read it! Desolé! Truly sorry! Excitement played a role as well!
with its compact nature and folding charging handle this thing looks like an idea tanker's SMG
Well if it followed the rest of the WW2 sub gun patterns - it should have a barely usable folding stock to be considered a Tankers SMG. Or it needs a 20" barrel.
An absolutely fascinating weapon! Thanks Ian for your amazing videos!
Holy smokes Gun Jesus! You getting to see one of these pieces of unobtanium and show it to us is a miracle in it of itself!
Very well presented and documented video about an historic weapon of
my country .This kind of informations is hard to find here
Perhaps the pivoting sear played a more significant role in the original select-fire 1941 configuration, which was obviated during the conversion to full-auto only. I can picture the sear engagement surface in the FCG popping back up after the trigger is pressed in semi-auto, and the pivoting sear would allow the bolt to pass back over it and reengage.
I was going to say it most likely was to aid in a smoother mechanical flow of the gun, less hard surfaces to hit means smoother operation.
OMG now I remember where I last saw this firearm, a friend of mine stole it from a rusty attic collection in his grandfather's home, and we took it to Big sur to see if it worked circa. 1984 and it did shoot, but the magazine spring was so old the feeding was horrible/dangerous, but the gun cracked wood and all, still worked like a jewel, God I wish we never put it back, I shot over 300 rounds of PMC with only 5 malfunctions, just wish I knew what they did with those old guns, I know there was a Chrysanthemum Arisaka carbine with a bayonet in there too, sad memories!
I saw the prototype from 1939 of the Orița M1939 carbine (not the later carbine versions) at the National Military Museum in Bucharest last December. Super rare, probably the one in the museum is the only one. I've seen no pictures of it online, although I have taken some myself. It had a wooden stock and body and a 10/15 round 9mm magazine. Super cool rifle prototype that is worth more investigation.
Thank you for presenting this gun from my country of origin!
A question about something I've never seen talked about: do grip safeties affect accuracy? I myself never fired a gun with a fired a gun with such safety, that's why I'm asking.
Not really. Often the spring pressure behind them is very weak so it isn't like you are exerting a lot of force to hold them down. Just aim as normal and you will be fine.
I'm my experience, no, but they're annoying to no end.
just guessing, but I would think that this is much less of an issue with a shouldered gun than with a pistol
Nope, early Lugers had grip safety but still the best army adopted pistol up to 80m, better then Sig 210 and used by swiss for target shooting up to much later pistols from the '70s like Benelli, etc. Also early Colt 1911 had grip safety, and also H&K P7 has grip safety and that one is made with a fix barrel gas dalayed so as to be more accurate, and by the wey, H&K P7 has a front grip safety.
@@crabmansteve6844 is that because all safeties are annoying, or just the grip safeties?
Thanks a lot, Ian for bringing these little pieces of history of my country and my people. Some time ago you posted another video about Orița submachinegun, and that was the reason I subscribed to your channel. It is nice to see people interested about this kind of stuff, but, in the same time, it is sad that almost none of my fellow Romanians is interested in Romanian firearms history. Thanks again
❤great SMG this model I was aware of it and glad I see it here !
I just read a Wikipedia page on this gun a few hours ago, and now Ian posts a video on it!
6:25 that levered firing pin also strikes the cartridge at around twice the speed (depending on where the pivot point is) that it would if it was fixed in the bolt. maybe it made a difference to fire whatever ammunition they were using more reliably, or to combine reliable firing with a relatively controllable recoil?
Yeah, that firing pin system will make even hard primers sit up and pay attention.
I hadn't thought of it imparting extra force to the primer, but that is indeed a possibility (although not a given). One drawback with such a system tho, is the lack of advanced primer ignition. I suspect this is why they incorporated the buffer into the bolt design.
@@dollabz777 not extra force. the firing pin strikes with higher velocity, but less force.
@@Ass_of_Amalek I see. So greater kinetic energy then. Makes sense... if the math works out. The velocity is squared but the mass of the firing pin alone is quite small compared to the whole unit. You understand what I'm getting at. Be interesting to see the actual numbers for that.
@@dollabz777 I don't know how that's calculated, maybe. I think if the primer cap is soft enough, the lever apparatus is going to result in the firing pin deforming the primer compound at a higher velocity, like a sharper impact sort of thing, and faster impacts are generally better at setting off impact-sensitive explosives. though that may not have been necessary at all, and maybe it was just for the purpose ian explained (preventing out of battery firing by only making the firing pin protrude from the bolt as the bolt closes).
A Romanian Uzi.
(Uzinele, marked on the gun, means factory in Romanian.)
I thought that was fabrica
They are synonyms@@lardomcfarty9866
YEEEEES finally, I've been waiting for a video on this weapon for a long time. Its soo good to see romanian weapons , hepe we'll get to see more.
I’m glad you were finally able to get a hold of one of these a make a video on it. Very neat subgun and truly rare, I wonder if even a single one made it over to the US. I know there are a few MP41’s over here (which the Romanians also used).
Another great video Ian.....love the content!
I wonder why updates didn’t simplify parts like the seer or the follower. Nice piece!
Maybe they had a lot of parts in ithe inventory?
Probably because it's easier to make only a few changes on a production line.
Because they were converting old guns which had these features already existing.
They had at least two of these in the Bucharest Army Museum, which I went round in 1992. This was not at the time open to the public and I had to have a special visit arranged by the British Embassy. It may now be open to the public. I was followed by two suited men all the way round, which I found rather amusing. My particular interest was the M1893 Mannlicher Rifle.
that's nice that they did that for you :)
I’m Romanian and I restore old things but I never seen one like that here. Thanks you show us this beauty 😊
I love Romania!
Would love to hear how some of these items got in the collection. Did they get them through the open marker? Picked up from the battlefield? Acquired clandestinely?
Been waiting to see this for a long time! Only ever saw the Orita in pictures. Hope a WWII game includes it someday.
I think Hearts of Iron 4 has these in if you are into strategy but they are just images basically, not 3D models like in a FPS
I don't doubt that game designers are subscribed. Good odds it'll show up at some point.
This is a nice advanced design. With modification to allow manufacturing with a tube receiver, I could see this as a very practical weapon.
Anyone have relatively close to first hand knowledge of actual reliability of this weapon?
Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
Chap up above says his granddad used one in '44 and told him it was "a very good weapon".
@Marvin De Bot I had read that one but Thank you. I wondered if there was any marked difference (in reliability etc.) between the earlier and the 48 model modifications?
Take Care, John
@@marvindebot3264 The Romanians also used a lot of SMG's Beretta 38/41 back then, so they could recognize what a good SMG looks like.
The spring buffer on the end of the bolt also keeps the bolt from bouncing
Very cool SMG.
Imteresting design concepts.
I have been waiting for this for a long long time
As far as the aesthetics go, it sure does remind me of an Erma MP-41
That was the time when Romanian manufacturing was at its best. Things were done the right way or not at all. What followed after the war ruined everything, including people's attitude towards work and life in general.
It's going to take a while to rebuild the real Romanian spirit. I hope the nation keeps fighting for her future!
I really love old fancy automatic carbines, it would be awesome if Ian reviews the argentine Halcón 1943 or any of the wacky guns from HAFDASA.
During the WW2, the Romanian industry produced the IAR 80 fighter plane in different variants. It is not surprising that the same industry could produce a simple automatic weapon.
I get the intention, but... Aeronautical industry is NOT the same as the Cugir Factory (joint Czech-Romanian company when it started), which produced firearms and sewing machines. Is like saying: it's no wonder US Industry can produce can produce the domino pizza, they were the same people that made Tesla (made by an Afrikan dude with 2 more country citizenships).
Looks like an MP41 but with a cheaper design. Are you going to take this to the range? I’m interested in see how accurate it is and how controllable it is.
I think it was actually more expensive and had a faster firerate
MP41 uses a stamped receiver, a simpler bolt, and probably other simpler parts, so I think it was cheaper. ian's video on it states that it was mostly made for export to romania, to be used alongside the orita.
No range time. I haven't seen him get range time with most of the in-museum episodes he's done.
Museum piece. That, plus the rarity, suggest 'No.'
Cheaper? This is more expensive and arguably better quality.
Just a note: "Modificat" means "Modified" in case anyone was wondering 😅
Look's like a cross between an MP 41 and a Sten.
Just the roundness & depth of the receiver.
I was in romanian army and never heard of this weapon ! Wow thanks for share !
woow, great, I just waiting for this one from a quite long time ago. thanks !
Any other people when their country is mentioned on this channel: OMG thanks Ian, love you covering the history of this weapon and my country in war
Germans: ..... Cool Gun......
First half of the 20th century artistry, craftsmanship, and quality in a firearm were a matter of pride , dependableity was paramount to designers and manufacturers, works of art
Hello there,the fact that this is a romanian gun just caught my atention because i am romanian (sorry for bad english)
Thanks for bringing us an interesting rarity.
it is spelled Oritza !! thank you for showing this legendary piece !
A bolt mounted sear! I made many sketches using the same idea many years ago. I knew about the thompson firing pin but I didn't know about this sear, the grip safety and the bolt handle.
I've been looking up for this moment...
I've been to the Cugir Arms Factory during a school field trip. Craftsmen created weapons of great quality and value. Women helped as well.
Vezi ca arms inseamna maini, nu arme! Vrei sa zici weapons!
@@danascully6698 Pune mana pe invatat, si lasa sfaturile.
love your work. thanks for sharing.
0:20 In romanian "t with hook" is similar to "ts", so we read this as a Oritsa. :)
thank you for this nice video
Just a thought that I'm sure would not have escaped Ian's eagle eye...mightn't the grip safety also depress the pivoting sear to prevent the open bolt from closing? I'm just picturing in my mind the various bits and orientation of parts...
Great video and a great piece of history! I have enjoyed every minute and will rewind to have a better look at this beauty.
That folding non reciprocating charginghandle design is neat.
A youtuber: mentions romanians
The entire nation of Romania: Whomst has summon the almighty one
One thing i caught on the manufacturing engravings was that the name is actually pronounced "oritzu". with u as in "uh.." small detail i know, but still worth a mention
About time, I thought you guys didn't knew about this weapon.
At first I was gonna say that this thing looks kinda like an M3 grease gun with a stock added, but after showing the function and machining of the various parts, I’d say it’s probably a much higher quality SMG than the M3.
All these SMG's and references to SMG's gives me hope that Headstamp really is considering an "SMG's of the Resistance" publication!
-overly complex design
-manufactured after 1948
-finish kinda still looks like wartime production
these guys made some weird choices
But it lasted in service until the 1980's...
so well designed, well manufactured, well respected???
Could always have been tarted up with new wooden "sideplates?
Model 1941, modified in 1948.
you really don't understand anything, it was manufactured from the end of 1942 until the 50s, and was modified only in 1948! it is clearly stated here but you probably don't understand very well
I was hoping to see an evaluation of this sub-machine gun as my father, a 20-21 years old second lieutenant in '43-'44, in his capacity as a platoon commander in a mounted infantry regiment, was equipped with the older, unmodified version of the gun. The designer's surname spells "Orița" - note the comma under the "t" and the Romanian pronunciation is probably similar to how a native English speaker would pronounce "Oritza". Later in life my father followed a legal carrier and I cannot refrain an emotional smile when I remember how he offered free legal advice to some of his former troopers who invariably addressed to him with "second lieutenant".
I miss talking to my grandfather in Romania. So many stories and wisdom from those times.
I think it's supposed to be pronounced "Oritsa" after Căpitanul Marin Orița. There is a 1949 paratrooper version with a pistol grip and an adjusted grip safety lever, I recommend looking it up.
I find it a little curious that they went with a proprietary magazine instead of using the MP-40 pattern. As allies of Germany they must have had a significant number of those and it would make a lot of sense to use the same one.
Actually, the Germans were rather stingy with their equipment (and rightly so, as they did not have a lot of weapons to spare), so the MP40s were really really rare in the Romanian Army. Most commonly, they were to be found with soldiers on the front lines, who had lifted them off some deceased German soldier.
Thank you , Ian .
🐺
That IS an neat charging handle arrangement.
Thanks, Ian! I'm glad to see this, finally!... I've always struggled to find documentation on our Romanian SMGs, knowing that we only had Czechoslovakian ZBs and German MP 40s, however, I knew there was THIS, somewhere out there. I couldn't find any documentation on it! Thank you once again! Great content! I really like your presentation!
Probably there are still a few 41 in the original state in some museum in Romania and my bet is on the Bucharest Military Museum
There is one at the National Museum also, i saw it as a kid and it seemed to resemble a Thompson for me at the tine
This gun is so easy to build by using a tube receiver; the L1A1 folding charging handle; the Garand trigger unit; and last, the MP40 stock.
Oriță is read like Oritzah, not Orita
this looks like a well made gun for ww2. Thanks for video
Can we have a Schmeisser Mp41? No we have a Mp41 at home ! The Mp41 at Home :
This is better than an mp41
I was just reading about these this week 👍Nice guns.
Any plans for a tour vid like the ones from Vienna and Warsaw? This seems like it would be interesting to get an overview of.
This gun looks awesome. It looks like the love child of a M3 grease gun and a m1928 Thompson
Always happy to see Ian. Just a pitty he was so close to my home.😅
I've seen them before. All the Soviet satellite military border guards carried them on the 60's TV show, "Mission Impossible".
It is spelled Orița and pronounced Oritsa / Oritza.
Also Cugir is pronounced more like "Cudgir", like gi in giraffe.
It seems like that grip saftey might hurt the hand after shooting this thing for prolonged periods. Just my 2 cents though.
One of my friends father actually worked on manufacturing the gun... I think he has some schmatics and numbers regarding it... he worked a very long time in Cugir