Estonian R20L Designated Marksman's Rifle in 7.62x51mm
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
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Alongside their new 5.56mm R20 infantry rifles, Estonia has recently adopted the LMT 7.62x51mm MARS-H as its new designated marksman's rifle; the R20L. These rifles were part of a single rifle contract, with the vast majority of the rifles being the smaller 5.56mm ones. The larger 7.62mm rifles have basically all the same features (including bayonet lugs and select-fire trigger groups), but scaled up for the larger caliber. Initial batches were fitted with Vortex scopes, but more now are being set up with Schmidt & Bender scopes in Spuhr mounts - really excellent kit. They use the same GSL suppressor as the 5.56mm guns, and are fitted with 2-position gas plugs when using the suppressor.
Thanks to the Supply Battalion of the Estonian Defense Forces Support Command for giving me access to film the new R20 rifles as well as some of their older firearms!
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Getting invited by a country's armed forces is always dope.
As long as your not asking to join them!
" what's the full auto for if you're doing marksmanship? "
" well, sometimes there's a lot of marks really close "
Having full auto on a DMR / sniper makes it a lot cooler and getting the vibes of having a special option / capability.
If i remember correctly, the FN Scar H PR's are also offered with full auto capability. Now i would like to see a video of one firing in full auto.
There were several occasions in Iraq where our ad-hoc DMRs built on FA A1 lowers were pressed into the LMG role out of dire necessity. No reason not to have the FA function.
True,but what practicality of it?
*Unlimited full auto.
@@Randomly_Browsing the same as the standard Rifle. 99% of the time you don´t use it. but when the situation has gone to hell and you need to put the maximum abount of led in the direction of the enemy. It´s kind of nececary.
Every video, I wonder what piece of gear is hidden just out of sight on Ian's lap.
True, and every video where he doesn't show it, it is fair to assume it is a Famas ;)
@@MrBandholmits his emotional support FAMAS
I feel like he has infinite gun space on his lap. Like some some bad 90s edgy comic hero
it's a Ruby pistol.
That is what the ladies that chase him are thinking.
Apparently the Estonian military has excellent taste in firearms.
They are very clever people. We Lithuanians copied a lot of their policies and laws
Super cool of the Estonian military to let Ian show & discuss their new DMR and one of their old G3 models hidden on Ian's lap. :)
I bet the Estonians that invited him didn't know he could produce guns from his lap and they were surprised.
At the start of the video you can see the tip of the bipod against the table he’s really just sitting with a g3 while explaining ready to suddenly appear
@@Koji44- BLASPHEMY!
Leave this comment section at once, you unbeliever.
The rest of know Ian can summon any gun he chooses from his lap and they are not placed in his lap before the start of the video.
He turns water into guns.
that etched-in QR code on the magazine well must be the first time i've ever seen a QR code rendered in relief in a surface like that
LMT does it on all of their lowers.
A sign of the times^^
Colt has 'em on their 1911 frames, right underneath the mainspring housing
Modern day hieroglyphs
I’ve noticed it on several guns Ian has shown us but haven’t mentioned it. It saves having to keep dead tree documentation on hand but is crippling when you don’t have internet access.
Spuhr, when expensive isn’t enough.
I always mess up these titles and see Elbonian when I read Estonian, and then I'm briefly disappointed when it's something actually good and not a wacky alt-history weapon.
Until I read your comment i thought it said Elbonian as well... :(
I said the same on the last Estonia video!! LOL I read Elbonia at first glance and was excited for another crazy rifle, only to be disappointed when I realized my error!😂
Same. Same.
Same 😂 I saw the stock & handguard and thought it was a modified Ruger SFAR. I was wondering how much he was going to drag my own budget, lightweight 308 build 🤣😭
Hahaha me too.
What's amazing is LMT's are manufactured in a town of under 7,000 citizens les than 100 miles west of The Mississippi. Not the typical military rifle manufacturing location.
If you drive around, you will see dozens of steel products manufacturing facilities. It's a hub for metalworks because John Deere main factory is nearby.
There’s something about seeing a unique and a well designed AR style rifle that makes me fall in love with the platform all over again. What a great rifle.
Is there a gun manufacturing company in the world (outside of Russia and China) that doesn't have Ian on speed dial? If you want to get eyes on your product... this is the channel to do it.
Waiting for the new Swedish/Finnish SAKO carbine.
@@SkogsMangan Theres some of those (DI & SA version) out in the wild now so I would be VERY surprised if Ian hasn't arranged to handle one on the finnish brutality trip.
It's clear that the modern Estonian military is built as an infantry component of a larger NATO force instead of its own sepatate military.
I believe the idea is to focus all of their military budget on equiping as much of their male population with state of the art NATO infantry kit and relying on rapid deployments of NATO Air Wings and Armored Combat Groups for fire support.
Hence they sold, scrapped or donated all of their Soviet Tanks, Jets and Artillery and spent every penny on modern small arms and infantry kits, aswell as modern APCs for transport and infantry heavy weapons for organic fire support and anti vehicle capabilities, namely Mortars, ATGMs and Manpads.
If you have a limited budget and you want a big military that is also well trained and equiped with state of the art weapons, that is the way to go.
The downsight is that you are completely reliant on your allies for Air Support, Airspace Defense aswell as heavy ground support (Heavy Artillery and Tanks) .
They probably figured that they couldn't fight a war anyway so they could at least have a large number of infantry units so that their allies can reinforce them with fire support units. Sort of a way to confince the Americans that Estonia can be defended and not used as a speed bump in case the Russians attack.
Didn’t the Estonian military procure Himars launchers alongside the GMLRS and ATACMs rockets to go with them?
@@briandenison2325 Yes, as well as K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzers.
@@dvlrnr They have like 50 artillery pieces total.
That's only really enough for the active component of their military, rougly 4000 men.
Their wartime military is supposed to be around 45,000 men if you include the reserves that can be mobilised within 48 hours.
In addition to those, you have to add:
-Their Paramilitary organisation, the Estonian Defense League (24,000 men as of 2023)
-The Estonian Police and Border Guard (they are a single entity, around 6000 active members according to Wikipedia. Assume at least 2000 of them would be mobilised into an infantry Regiment)
-Territorial Defense Units, similar to what we saw in Ukraine at the start of the war. Say 10,000 men in the first 3 days.
That will give you around 80,000+ men under military command (so not including partisans) within 3 days, of which at least 50,000 would be trained and uniformed soldiers.
48 howitzers and 6 Himars trucks are not meant to suffice for their entire force, or even just their Order of Battle Army. That's only enough fire support for their 4000 men active ground forces, and barely so.
One can also assume that shell and guided rocket stocks even given a few years to fill up would only really be enough for no more than a week of intense combat.
Pretty much.
Like yeah, sure, if we desperately wanted, we could purchase a handful of tanks and a pair of F-35s, but what good does that do in an actual war? Meanwhile they'd cost so much that afterwards we could hardly even afford an upgrade for the aging Galils, let alone something like the R20.
Honestly I'm not sure why we even spent money on CV-90s. I think that money could have been far better spent, but I suppose they'll come in handy if USA drags us into another forever war in a sandbox somewhere.
We've indeed focused heavily into mechanized infantry. This is in part due to the natural landscape of Estonia (and the Baltics as a whole) being regularly covered in marshlands and such. This means that heavier vehicles (notably tanks) are suspectable of getting stuck. Estonia does not have the manpower nor the budget to be able to afford as varied of a military composition as something like some other larger NATO countries. As such the main strategy has indeed been built up on infantry. The entire military has generally been prepared for a defensive fight against our eastern neighbor which at least in the beginning of such a war would most likely include us being outnumbered. This is why we have focused on infantry so heavily. We have been also taking a lot of notes from the war in Ukraine as to what works and what doesn't, which is why we have started procuring more modern artillery and MLRS systems like HIMARS and K9. There are also allied units in the country including long range air defense last I checked. We do have some air defense systems but they are to my knowledge primarily dedicated to SHORAD and anti drone warfare.
Personally i suggest anyone reading this to go check out Perun's video on the matter of Baltic defense strategy as he manages to cover the topic more in depth than I ever could.
The choice of 7.62x51mm for a designated marksman's rifle is a solid move, especially with the Schmidt & Bender scopes and GSL suppressors.
Thanks for providing us with this interesting insight Ian, it was very kind of the Estonian Defence Forces' Supply Battalion to give you access to their high-quality R20L DMR. The R20L is a fantastic variant of a fantastic assault rifle that is highly versatile and customizable like the AR-10 it's based on.
Спасибо, было очень интересно
Very nice setup for a modern DMR. Estonia is really has really moved a long way in it's equipment. Also, you know Ian is realizing at least some of his dreams by getting invited by actual military armories to review current/modern weaponry.
5:20 - so this is a DMR that you can legitimately hold gangster-style.
I've always found Estonian military history & weapons mildly interesting, so It's cool to see something like this & the video you made on the Estonian Mosin. It's why I made a video on Estonian armored vehicles pre & early ww2
That is a very very stable, tough looking scope mount. Thank you for the video Ian.
Ians lap must be compleaty full of guns
All the beautiful babies!
Nice!!! I like all the scuff marks. Can tell its been used....
Legitimately cool as this was LMT’s first short stroke piston in their MRP-H series.
Nato/Europe: switching to AR platform
US Army: "I've got an idea!"
The United States Army being just as boneheaded as usual.
Western countries: "Our standardized 9mm, 556, and 308 calibers all seem adequate."
Sig: "WAITAMINUTE! Have you ever tried our proprietary, extra spicy versions?!?"
The MCX is still pretty much an AR, imho. Same manual of arms, more or less.
4:11 - While somewhat included in that explanation, even designated marksmen, not yet possessing the levitation abilities of a bonafide sniper, occasionally have to enter structures and having the power washer setting is comforting, if nothing else.
Lol. "Power washer."
A video where Ian goes to India and checks out Sig 716i’s in service would be cool
Even the subtitle tells you its an advert. Love it!
I have one of 10 contract overrun batch FDE LMT MRP-H receiver upper and FDE lower with a 7.62 CL (.308) Piston Kit. Love it
Fricking early gang checking in
Check In!
Check in!
Yo! Reporting for duty!!
Dang...you guys are awake when it's just you and the sexbots on YT 🤣
Crazy to think that the Schmidt and Bender PMII with the Spuhr mount is more expensive than the full decked out assault rifle and the DMR by itself lol.
So, in summary we can say that the Estonian Army had specified a bayonet lug on the 5.56 variant and LMT forgot to time the muzzle thread, forcing the customer to use shims to align the flash hider to allow mounting of a bayonet.
It gets better. LMT decided to essentially use the 5.56 gasblock on the 7.62 DMR, thinking 'yeah, that looks good '. LMT for the win.
LMT should really fix the whole muzzle device & bayonet debacle. Bayonets will still be with us for a long while.
@@donwyoming1936 Ehh...probably not. Nowadays if we went to WW3 trench fighting situation, it'd probably just be easier to have a sharp 3/4 pronged muzzle device that could be used to stab someone.
All in all those are minor headaches compared to most custom orders. If you want something that comes without any issues, what so ever, you buy exactly what another, preferably lager, country has been fielding for 10 years already. So the "A2" or "A3" pattern. And then you live with the fact that you lose out on adaptations that would be desirable for your unique situation.
And speaking of full auto DMRs / snipers… there’s a candid / legitimate HK SG1 that is a full auto and having the set trigger button to lighten the trigger pull for increased accuracy. Next, there’s the MK12 Mod 0 in 5.56 that initially utilized the older M16A1 lower receiver, so to have the ability to switch to full auto in a SHTF situation. And lastly, there’s the one HK PSG1 that’s a candid unicorn and having the full auto capability to make the PSG1 super cool.
@jessicasimp4459 the Russians have the SVU-A which is a full auto variant of the SVU
There was a rumor that the old Yugo M76 and possibly even some early versions of the PSL had an unmarked "middle position" for emergency F/A fire. Unsure if this is actually true or just internet conjecture related to customs' denial of some early imports.
Honestly makes way more sense than the sig spear.
That's not a very high bar, tbh.
It’s interesting to see how similar this is to the Sako M23 Sniper. Maybe Sako took inspiration from these.
You really should have got together with Artur Rehi while in Estonia.
Ian I've been watching your content since like 2015 and its still amazing, keep it up man
What a fantastic gun. I wish my countries laws allowed ownership of such rifles. I would buy one in a heartbeat!
Entered the sweepstakes, looking forward to winning that. Really enjoy your videos.
That was great Ian! Thanks! I really enjoyed it.
Man. I live in California. This thing breaks like 5 laws. I'm probably going to get arrested just for watching this video.
Man that’s a good lookin rifle Ian…I run the dd5v3 setup very similar but would kill for a Schmidt&bender
I’m surprised they didn’t put more of a precision fixed stock on it. Collapsible ones move around too much.
So nice to see my country flag in this channel
Would be cool and interesting if you could do a video covering Magpul's history and incredible prevalence one day.
Really cool that you are in Tallin. Looks great. You didn't specifically say this was a USA competition only, but obviously being British I'd have a hard time just getting a bayonette.
Ian: As a left handed shooter, would you say the "gas piston" style AR-10/15 rifles such as theese LMTs, the H&K 416 have significantly less gas 'blow back' into one's face with and without a suppressor mounted? Or is that more of a myth and/or individual rifle design factor?
It's a myth born from marketing speak. Despite what some people would like to believe, there is gas blowback on a piston gun, and it's not too different from what you'd get on a DI gun.
Specifically, it's gas coming back from the chamber, which you can't do anything about without specialized components like the KAK K-Spec BCG, and even then, it only redirects the gas downward.
the offset iron sights are so cool.
Got to say Magpul is killing it in the magazine department. Seems like all of the NATO countries and many others are going with pmags and i don't blame them
Remind me why the piston is deemed necessary / desirable over the original design?
Thats what we ask over here also, could be that some M16 myths were alive and well in the procurement team. Took a lot of convincing that the AR is not a plastic gun that jams after 2 mags. Now pople love them, the 5,56 version specially. R20L has a bit of a bad reputation now but hopefully they get fixed
Because direct impingement has always been trash.
that is a close range weapon. 2.2 @ 600+m would make it a miss every 2nd or 3rd time.
i feel it is not enough "different" to the small bore version to even call it DMR. Perhaps there could have been added 2 inches of barrel and a bit of thickness to it?
It would make for a good urban fight unit though, especially in comparison to our old SVD-s and Galil -s and even the M14s.
That scope on it is like a pink cake on a dirty floor :D
sick ive been waiting for this video
Lets go, my favourite youtuber came to my relatively obscure country, a shame i probably won’t get to see him irl tho.
Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen an AR10 pattern gun that didn't have issues of one sort or another.
(But please, tell me all about how yours is perfect.)
Anyone else disappointed that they misread the title as having to do with Elbonia? (No shade, Estonia)
I like that the rifle has full auto capability and offset irons. No rifle can be one-size-fits-all-roles but this is a good example of planning for contingencies.
Estonian?
Sweet!
I want one!
What does the Elbonian army use as a D.M.R.?
It's actually a really well-made rifle
Dang can't wait to start seeing Baltic-made firearms in movies and videogames.
This isn't baltic-made. LMT is an American company, they also made rifles for New Zealand, for instance.
Not very many firearms manufacturers here. The only Estonian firearms manufacturer that I know of is Nordarms.
@@wurfyy Ah, the classic Baltic practice of naming themselves "Nord-" so everyone would think of sophisticated nordics not tracksuit wearing East-European stereotypes.
@@EugenijusKrenisI mean that stereotype doesn't apply here regardless so not sure where you're going with that.
Curious. R20L has two versions. Shown here is the SSR (sniper support rifle) version if to call that as such, those have the S&B 3-12PMII LP on it and stainless match barrel with 11.25 twist (incl suppressor). Regular DMR has "ordinary" barrel with 10 twist AND Trijicon 1-8 VCOG on it, and no suppressor (yet). S&B is not standard issue item for regular joe's DMRs.
I read it as Elbonian and though "wow, elbonia is getting nice upgrades!!!"
Beautiful gun 😊
4th...Sweden and Finland are switching to AR15 and AR10 pattern weapons too aren't they
Yes, the Sako M23 as the DMR and a series of AR15 based weapons which I have not seen the Sako designation for. The first Sako AR15 is the Ak24 for the Swedish army which is a carbine for the Swedish armed forces that will replace many of the worn out Ak5/FN FNC weapons. It will also replace the Glock pistols used by a lot of support troops in the Homeguard.
I still have some friend REE:ing about "but what about the tree branch penetration" arguing in favor of using the 7.62. You can probably count it with one hand the times in battle some kill was missed over the bullet not having enough energy to get through a branch, but each soldier being able to carry double digit % more ammo will have a passive and measurable effect, always. Most points about insisting on 7.62 are about niche cases that are purely theoretical, and in 99.95%(source: I made it the F up) cases 5.56 would had worked just as well, but now you can carry more ammo. Which at the macro scale will matter more than the branch penetration at 600meters ever will.
@@MidWitPrideEither you are misrepresenting the argument or it is something I have not heard before. The question has never been about penetration of branches but how soft cover affects the directional stability of the bullet.
We have now three different 7.62mm cartridges simultaneously in use in the military, the 7.62x39 for assault riffles and LMGs, 7.62x54R for some odd machine guns and 7.62x51 NATO for a number of vehicle mounted machine guns as well as for the Sako M23 DMRs. Our defence forces calls the variants of it KIV 23 and TKIV 23 depending on accessories bolted on them.
7.62x39 is propably going to remain in service for nearly half a century more. If there is a need to simplify logistics before that perhaps we could just replace the PKMs by some NATO standard caliber GPMG as the M23 replaced the SVD and the TKIV 85.
@@herptek Among Finnish conscript reservist circles the tree branch argument is very prevalent for the 7.62x39 sadly. Arguing that 5.56 can't be used in the woods because it's too light to penetrate tree branches at a distance. When in the woods you probably don't have +500m distances anyway and even if you had, none of the people complaining about this would hit their target anyway regardless of the branches.
Imo it's all mostly just "the old one is good because I am used to it, so now I will come up with reasons to defend it."
Which is why I can't understand for the life of me why we still stick to 7.62 machine guns. We just got our new Negevs, and I was disappointed to learn they'd be the 7.62 variants.
I wish we actually could buy our rifles/pistols/shptguns, initially and through out training.
That bipod with an adapter makes a true enthusiast scream.
Also the My HK has been use A LOT and has not gained a single bald spot (except the midwest HG), which I am amazed of but that gun has gone through a break test or is faulty. The stratches should not be there.
Interesting that they're not bothering with match ammo to pair with this thing. I know that makes sense from a logistics and cost perspective, but that's just not what we're used to seeing anymore for the designated marksman concept.
Definitely logistics, special use does get special ammo.
This gogetentered thing is getting our of hands...
Let's mention the monolithic upper. How often do you see this level of Gucci on a standard issue DMR?
Very nice
Are the Estonians using LMT’s chrome lined barrels with 1/12” twist? Or the stainless steel barrel with 1/11.25” twist?
If they are shooting mostly 147gr. M-80 ball the chrome lined barrel might make for sense.
Ian, are you in Tallinn this Sunday? Tell me where you go for beers, I'd love to buy you at least one! 😊
Sorry, but no - I filmed this a month or two ago.
The gas block problem must have been something other than pressure since the max of the 5.56 and 7.62 are nearly the same, the 5.56 a bit higher even.
When they do accuracy testing is that practical or solid mounted in a rest
Praise GJ for bringing US another reference rifle, alas
2.2 MOA with ball ammo isn't terrible
He said that spec is with precision ammo. Ball ammo would probably open that up.
5:38 Throwback to the Cursed AK video???
Time to update my Forgotten Weapons conspiracy board. It'll go nicely next to my theories about that one furry fanart.
Don't suppose you could send it over to 9 Hole for a range day before you give it away?
Winning the R20L would put me into a conundrum. Keep it historical, or use it for a base to make my Sniper Support Weapon/Spotters Weapon/B.U.R.K.E (Battle Utility Rifle, Kombat Equipment). The only real changes would be an LPVO to replace the S&B scope with an LPVO (probably a Vortex 1-8x) and trying to co-witness a Red/Green dot sight with the off set opens. 😂
It's similar to what I would like to have, but with Stoner action, different stock with an adjustable cheekiest and an Atlas bipod.. And no need for full auto... I'll keep dreaming. But overall good choice for the Estonians. All the, what was it, 600 of them?
06:00 aren't 5.56x45 mm and 7.62x51 mm working at about the same pressure, around 420 MPa (~62k PSI)?
The most important question...
Can you mount an M203 on the R20L ?
Talin? can you visit the Submarine Base? and see if Yegor is not there.
That shout out to my favorite bipod company and 2.2 mo my old 308 with that surplus ball shoots maybe 3 3.5 on a cold day I can keep bore cold for 5 shots and with a hand load or some nice ammo I can get 1 to 1.5 mo
Did you lend the US one to Henry at 9 hole? Would love to see what he could do with it
You should do a video on the Model 12 Winchester.
Is that an actual Ergo grip, or is it a proprietary LMT look-alike?
That is a really pretty gun
18" barrel with a 1:10" rifling twist?
why is it that the 5.56 rifle needs a forward assist, but not the DMR?
I'd do the get entered to win thing for this, but I'm out of the US for work and will be for a few years so I wouldn't be able to recieve it
Interesting that for what sounds like a similar requirement Estonia went for a 7.62 LMT piston gun with a conventional 12x scope whitest the U.K. has gone for a 7.62 LMT Stoner gun with a lower power ACOG.
Apparently those are going through an A2 "upgrade" programme. Given that it seems to be new LMT lowers and uppers in 6.5 with a new scope, I am not sure how much of the original rifles can be left...
I sometimes feel like I am watching an installment of the series "Small Weapons of the 3rd European Civil War”, on Yottube from 2055, when I see these videos on modern stuff.
This would make more sense than the SIG Spear, and their goofy 6.8 mm high pressure round...not to mention staying NATO spec ammo wise! 🙂🤔🙄
wondering if he'll tour the neighbor Baltic countries's armories
The gun has a ton of visible wear and tear finish is worn off in lots of areas and there are scratches everywhere was this a service weapon that has seen action? Cause that is the only reason I can think of to explain the less than ideal condition of its finish.
To be absolutely clear, the full-auto setting on this rifle does not function and thus anyone entering the contest does not need to be a class 3 dealer to get the rifle, correct?
Correct.
Ian, have you ever been to the J.M. Davis Arms & Historical Museum in Claremore, OK?
No, but I am aware of it.
I guess I’ll enter to win the R20l. At least there isn’t another coffee cup with this one. My wife has had enough withe white coffee cups with guns on them.
>infantry gets holosun
>DMR has Schmidt & Bender+ sphur
Wow Estonia wtf
Why are the flips so ahead of the game (decades) with the MSSR? I guess I am content with Estonia going along with NATOs whims
LMT 😂😂😂 Learning Machining Together
Full auto, because why not 😂