Why I Run A Tube In My Sealed Front Rim (And You Should Too) - Harley Davidson Softail
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2017
- In this video I go on a little bit of a rant/P.S.A about how some people in the biker community think that it's cool/smart/manly to not run a tube on their front rim and show why I disagree.
If you want to run without a tube in your front rim, go right ahead. It's your life & bike. Just don't do it because of some over-inflated sense of pride/manliness/whatever or because you read about it on the internet somewhere and thought it might be cool.
My "'06 Harley Night Train (FXSTBI) Repair & Maintenance" Playlist:
• '06 Harley Night Train...
The information in this video is for educational purposes only. Pet Rock assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Use the information in this video at your own risk. Pet Rock recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Pet Rock. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
You make a great point. I put an aftermarket wheel on my 07 Train to avoid having to deal with inner tubes and tire irons, plus I'm pretty good at plugging tires. Now I wonder if or how much stronger aftermarket wheels are compared to spoke. I T-boned a car. I waIked away, my frame was toast but my front wheel was repaired (didn't break the seal). I may dig out that innertube.
Most aftermarket wheels are made of aluminum which is lighter & weaker then the stock steal rims. IMO, for your piece of mind, I would stick a tube in it. Its a little added insurance. Good luck.
Had the same thing happen to my front rim. Hit a Michigan pot hole about 55-60 mph, (and yes Michigan pot holes are bad) - jarred my skeleton. Was still holding air, and got me home 30 miles without any issues.
Good to hear you got home safe. Pot-holes do tend to jump out and bite you when you least expect it.
Same exact thing happened with me on my new street bob with tubed spoked rims.
Glad to hear you made it through. I bet the pucker factor was high. Thanks for watching & commenting. I appreciate it.
Being from New England, Massachusetts to be exact, I feel your pain. Night riding absolutely sucks when it comes to our roads and nothing is fixed until the end of summer just for the roads to get fu@%ed up again over winter. I've never heard that argument about not being a man if you run a tube, in fact probably the dumbest thing someone could say and even worse if somebody else actually backs it lol. Chances of bending a rim rather than puncturing it I would think are most likely greater odds so yeah, tubes over spokes all day long. Good lesson learned, the hard way unfortunately.
Yeah, I grew up in up state NJ, so I know the ever changing pot hole situation in the North East pretty well. Its pretty ridiculous. I never understood how turning a pot hole into a large mound of asphalt was considered a fix. I've seen various forum posts over the years and overheard people at bike shops and rallies bragging about not running a tube like it was a badge of honor. Especially on solid, non-spoked, rims. Or people asking if they can run a radial tire on the front without a tube, especially on sealed spoked rims.
Pet Rock's Garage Some people learn the hard way. Bent rims are almost a given even if it’s just enough to brake the bead . It’s almost impossible to keep anything nice in the Northeast. Yeah, New Jersey, New York, they’re all just as bad if not worse
@@getoffmygrass6974, I'd say NY (especially the city & islands) are worse then NJ. But I'm a little bias. :-) Upstate NY & everything but the upper east side of NJ aren't that bad though. Just sayin'...
Pet Rock's Garage Pros and cons everywhere I suppose, though it’s hard to find negs in dry warm heat year round , smooth roads and wide open scenery lol
Very good ; yup - I’ll seal my 21 but run a tube - well if I get a puncture still may be able to plug and get by . 🤔
Yeah, definitely run a tube. Thanks for watching & commenting. I appreciate it.
Pet Rock's Garage right on ; many thanks to you . HD mechanic says 40 - 42 psi on 21” save a wheel -
Great video and advice.:)
Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.
I always appreciate good advice. Thanks for sharing this valuable tip.
Did any of the other parts get defected when you hit that pot hole? How is the fork?
No. Just the rim was damaged. Replaced it and its been fine ever since.
I've been riding for 35 + years and have never had a blown tire but that does not keep me from thinking it won't happen at any time, like people pulling out in front of you on a daily basis which always increases the pucker factor. I ride a "97 WG with the 21" front tire. Just for your opinion.... what would happen if the front tire went down on a bike at 60 mph ? Would it be a total loss of control ? Thanks for any input.
I totally agree on the pucker factor. As for the blow out at 60, If it was a sudden blow out then yeah I would think it would produce a total loss of control. If it was a slow leak down then you would likely notice after a little while and be able to pull over before it was completely flat.
I run my 21 at 40 psi
Depending on the tire you run, that sounds about right.
Except I got a nail in my rear tire and was unable to plug cause of the tube and was stranded
When the tire with a tube goes flat the beed of the tire typically comes off the rim (if not its easy to detach). You can then pull the tube out where the puncture is, patch it and shove the tube back in. Then inflate with whatever mechanism you have available (just as you would have to do with a non-tube tire & a plug). You can carry a tube patch kit as easily as a plug kit.
What manual would you suggest I get for my 03 soft tail deuce fuel injection?
The factory service manual from Harley is the only real manual for our bikes, IMO. All others are just Cliff-Notes. Contact your local dealer to order one, or the HD web site. It will pay for itself in the first service. I have the service manual, electrical manual & parts manual, but you should be fine with the service manual if electrical stuff isn't your thing. Hope that helps.
New to this shit...thanks for the heads up!
No problem. Glad to be of service.
@Van Bodhi I hope, when it comes out, they will have the new Movie, "Spamalot"...
you can plug a tubeless and put fix a flat in it or air and go, then get better repair later
Yeah, that is true. After a sudden front tire blow out (for whatever reason) you can repair the tire. However, you first have to wait for the bike to stop sliding down the road on it's side after you dumped it due to that sudden blow out. To me, repairing the tire is the last thing I'm worrying about when/if a sudden blow out occurs. So if I can reduce the probability of a blow out by using a tube I'll use a tube.
Also, if your rim & tire combo can run tubeless, but run with a tube like I do, and you get a puncture in the tire & tube you can still repair the tire and fill it with air and go since the tire & rim are still sealed. The tube could be completely deflated but the tire will still hold the pressure till you can get it fixed. Just sayin'...
Pet Rock's Garage yup -
I have never heard the anti tube thing. To me a tube is the way to go and who in their right mind would care if you put a tube in. HAHA
Most custom rims are 'sealed' so you don't need to run a tube in it when used with a tubeless tire. People pay extra for it. Some people use the argument that if you get a flat it is easier to patch it on the side of the road if it doesn't have a tube. But IMO, thats silly because if your tire suddenly pops while going down the road, getting it patched is the least of your worries. And then theirs the crowd who brag about not having a tube in their front tire, like its some kind of macho thing or whatever and poke fun at those that do run a tube. Those guys are just putting themselves in the running for a Darwin Award, IMO.
Let's maybe take it even a step further than that: who in their right mind even cares what the "macho" anti-tube person cares about? 🙂
@@petrocksgarage But then again ...a tubless tire would hardly go "pop" would it? OK, sure - it all depends on the circumstance. It's more of a slow-ish escape of air, though, giving the pilot a bit more time to seek the shoulder than if he just ran a tube on a non-sealed rim, wouldn't you say? Be that as it may, I do think that the tube in a tubeless/sealed spoke rim set-up is indeed a very good idea and sorta' thinkin' outside da box, 'cause I sure haven't heard that one since the early seventies. While I'm at it, and the real reason I looked you up, was that after reading over eight hundred (!) comments on the oil purge thread over on the Delboy's Garage channel, your comment alone - yes YOU - stood out and was the ONLY one ...in eight hundred + comments that was worth the read. Your math lesson as regards what amount of dirty/old oil was REALLY left in the motor, as well as pointing out the bore-wash concern, was suuu-perb! I in fact have decided against the total purge deal because of what you wrote and kinda' held engineering class on. Then on top of that, there is the nagging issue of taking that line off of the tank over and over. Seems like that's also asking for trouble on several levels. Also, too, in regards to bore-was concerns, one could just unplug the injectors, etc., but If I did a purge, I think I'd opt for running the motor while checking the tank and filling accordingly while purging as opposed to crank away on that starter even with plugs pulled, and injectors disabled. Anyway, thank you kindly for that back-and-forth with Delboy (who nonetheless seems to be a good guy) and bringing up what you did, shining a bright and learned spotlight on the actual amount left in the motor as opposed to the much larger volume of contaminated/dark oil (almost a liter/quart) that was presented as all being old oil. Much appreciated 👍
From southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
@midnightmc3096 , sure a tubeless tire could go pop. Any sudden decompression of the tire will 'pop'. It all depends on how fast & hard the rim is bent. If you're tooling around the neighborhood it probably won't pop, but at highway speeds (like I was when this happened) the probability goes way up. If you are going fast enough for the tire to squish enough to let the thing you hit (i.e. inner edge of a pothole) dent the rim then you are going fast enough to have the tire pop. In my case, as I show in the video, there was nothing sealing the tire to the rim where it was bent. It's a little hard to see in the video, but you can see the tube in the video and that the beed had separated from the rim (1:05). So it would most definitely have popped and I would have most likely lost control of the bike. Thankfully it didn't. Now its a story I can laugh about instead of an obit.
Re oil purge, thanks a lot. I appreciate it. I agree, Delboy seems like a good guy who is trying to help people. I've got over 95k miles on the bike in this video now and do a simple drain, filter & refill oil change every 5k miles per the service manual and have had no minor or major motor issues (knock on wood). I did upgrade to a 95" kit at around 500 miles or so though. So the cylinders & pistons aren't stock but everything else is. The bike had less than 10 miles on it when I bought it back in '06. While admittedly anecdotal, I think its a pretty good indicator that purging every oil change isn't necessary.
@@petrocksgarage I was, of course, referring to a regular puncture, not a bent rim scenario. With a bent rim, you will almost be guaranteed to lose the air virtually instantaneously if a tube is not present. And so, your methodology is spot on. Also, good on you for having put that many trouble-free miles on your cycle 👍
Ride Forever! 🦅
You can run around with a flat front on a dyda all day long.. ask me how I know.
Wow. You were extremely lucky that you didn't go down. Either way, its a scenario I would prefer to avoid.
I agree with ya buddy I think organic is the way to go. Now your wondering why i'm answering your comment here HAHA You seem to be stuck in my junk comments folder and can't get you out, LOL
Yeah, thats odd. I wonder why/how that happened? TH-cam is flagging my comments as spam or something? you should be able to approve the comment and it will appear in the video.
You are a approved commenter but when i try to checkmark the box next to it to approve it won't work. LOL TH-cams broke again.
You don't let everyone comment on your posts? I have my videos set to allow anyone to comment. If someone gets out of line I just block them and delete their post. I've been lucky and not many have acted like idiots. Its easier to maintain a 'deny' list then it is to maintain an 'allow' list. Especially when you want new people to comment etc.
Yeah, smart decision running tubes.
Indeed...
now that would have got your blood pumping 👀
Oh you bet it did.
so hard to find vids on tough daily ridden bikes like yours, keep up the vids mate 👍🏽
Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.
ok...I understand what you are getting at here but this is stupid and I'm going to explain why. Can you get a flat by having a bent rim...absolutely. Will a tube help you avoid that? sometimes.
Now that we have established that.
What scenario do you think is more likely? A bent rim, or a puncture hole? Correct, a puncture hole is far far far more common than a bent rim.
now...what exactly do you plan to do when you get a puncture hole in your tire and tube while out? (particularly worse when traveling) are you planning to hold the bike up in the air with one hand while you remove the rim/ tire/ tube and replace the tube with the other and then re-install it on the bike? No. No you are not. What you are going to do, is call a tow truck and hope they don't damage your bike.
If you are running tubeless, you can easily plug the tire, reinflate it with a co2 fill kit, and be back on the road in 10 min.
Their is a reason why All touring bikes run tubeless rims rather than spoked rims.
Your strategy is like removing your roof to use the materials for a tornado shelter. I'm sure the shelter will come in handy if their is a tornado, but its probably going to rain in the mean time.
Edit; Before someone try's to suggest that you can still plug a tubed tire. Tubes have the valve built in That valve does not seal around the valve hole in the rim the same way a stand alone valve stem does. If the tube is leaking, your tire is not going to hold air. To fix a flat on a tubed tire, you have to remove the rim from the bike, break the seal on the tire, pull out the tube, and then either patch it, or replace it. Adventure bikes that have center stands specifically designed to be able to get a wheel up in the air, can allow you to make this repair in rout. A 1000 pound touring bike, loaded out for a trip, is going to be a different animal, even if you have a center stand installed.
I've gotten a few flats in tubed tires over the years. They are nowhere near as hard to fix as you suggest, even on the side of the road. Your conclusions show a fundamental misunderstanding of how tubes & bias-ply tires work and of history. In no particular order:
- You don't need to remove the entire wheel, let alone the tire, to fix a punctured tube. You just remove the thing that punctured the tire, break the tire beed (which is easy since the tire is flat), fish the punctured part of the tire out between the beed & rim, patch it, stuff it back in (making sure its not twisted), re-inflate and your on your way. You don't need to pull the entire tube out either. Just a couple inches worth to get to the punctured part.
- It is very hard to re-seal a tubeless/radial tire once the beed has been broken (which is common when a flat occurs). Especially if you are stuck on the side of the road. A CO2 canister is not going to work if the beed is broken. They don't have the needed force to quickly push the sidewalls out for the beed to seat/seal. With a tube you don't have to worry about that. Inflating the tube will push the tire into the rim and re-set the beed.
- A patched tube is orders of magnitude safer than a plugged tire. Plugs come out all the time due to tire pressure pushing the plug out or centrifugal force from the wheel spinning. That can't happen with a patched tube.
- Valve stems on tube tires most definitely seal the hole they go through. The tube is rubber and will conform to it's environment when inflated. Otherwise your tire would fill up with water the first time you're caught in a rain storm or go through a deep puddle.
- I'm not sure what your statement about "If the tube is leaking, your tire is not going to hold air" is trying to say. Yes, if your tube is leaking your tire is not going to old air. The same is true if your tubeless tire is leaking.
- If you puncture a tube you just need to get to a shop to replace the tube. The tire does not need to be replaced, unlike with a tubeless tire. If you are on a long road trip the probability of quickly finding a new generic tube is significantly higher than finding a new tire identical to the one you punctured. Running mismatched front/back tires is typically ill-advised, although it will work in a pinch. But I wouldn't run the mismatched combo for long.
- Before radial motorcycle tires existed (pre-1980's) all motorcycles ran tubes in front & back tires. When they got a flat they patched them. Just like bicycle tires. Its really not that hard.
- WWII era military HD's ran tubes (because radial tires didn't exist yet). When soldiers were running those things off-road through rivers, streams and rough terrain do you think they waited for a tow truck if/when they got a flat? No, they patched the tube and got on their way.
- You assume all (HD) touring bikes run tubeless because of radial vs bias-ply tire differences. Thats incorrect. Like most things in the corporate world, it all comes down to cost. Solid rims are significantly cheaper to manufacture than spoked rims. Its that simple.
- There are tons of spoked rims available for touring bikes, as well as bias-ply & radial tire options. So, like a lot of things, it comes down to your application and personal preference. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
The list goes on and on an on...
@@petrocksgarage you make several valid points that I agree with. The most important of which, is patching the tube on the side of the road. You would however, need a way to break the bead to access the tube which most people won’t be able to do on the side of the road.
A plug in a tire is by no means a permanent solution, but it is absolutely faster and easer to accomplish than repairing a tube. Historically you are correct about spoked rims being used… as better materials and manufacturing processes have become available, bikes have gone to solid rims in all but nostalgia bikes, and off-road bikes, the layer of which is due mainly to the ability to repair a damaged spoked rim vs a solid rim. The change to solid rims on touring bikes, however, has been in large part for the convenience of repair with flats. And yes, you can buy spoked rims for your limited, but their is a reason people rarely do.
It’s because you are far more likely to get a flat than a damaged rim when traveling on cement. In addition, the advent of tire pressure sensors allow bikes in current times to give us a warning when we are losing tire pressure. This clearly doesn’t help with a blowout, but with puncture damage, it allows you to be aware of, and repair a tire(all be it, temporarily) before a blow out is suffered.
I appreciate your articulate response, I’m not convinced their is a hard line right or wrong at this point… as I believe their are advantages to each, but an excellent discussion none the less
@@sethrockwood, breaking the beed on a flat tire is actually pretty easy. The beed isn't bonded to the rim or anything like that. The beed was already broken by the time I got off the road with two of the flats I've gotten.
- Plugs may have a speed advantage. But when I get a flat tire I'm not racing around like its Nascar trying to fix it. I'm first figuring out wtf just happened, is anything damaged, am I in a safe spot, do I have a repair kit etc etc. Fixing the flat is almost last on the list once I'm stopped and off the bike. Yeah, speed of repair helps, but it isn't my primary concern in the moment.
- With the growing popularity of low profile tires on baggers and other style bikes, the chance of getting a damaged rim is significantly higher regardless of the type of rim or tire being used.
- There is more than just aesthetics when it comes to the type of rim & tire to use. Bias-Ply tires can carry heavier loads than radials, have stiffer sidewalls, less prone to puncture and higher milage than radials to name a few advantages. www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/about/bias-vs-radial-motorcycle-tires/
- 2022 HD Electra Glide Standard, for example, comes with Bias-Ply tires stock, not radial: www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/electra-glide-standard.html. I'm not sure if they run a tube, but the Dunlop 130/80B17 65H tires are designed to work with and without. I guess it depends on if you get spoked or solid rims from HD or aftermarket. HD does have spoked rim options.
Paid more attention to potholes you're lucky you had a tube in the front tire are you probably be dead what you doing 60 miles an hour on the highway
Yeah, I know. That is kind of the point of the video. Without the tube I would have gone down. No question.