#shorts #starwars #darthvader Did Darth Vader Let Luke Skywalker Win in Star Wars? Source: "Star Wars: The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader" Music by: @EpicTrailerMusicUK
Yea cause he was his son so the emotion was prolly him caring for Luke. Had it been someone else like Obi then vader's anger would help him. The type of emotion is what Matters to the sith I believe.
@@mnco5741It didn't help him in both fights against Obi-Wan, though; he mopped the floor with Vader. Only time Vader finally got him was because he allowed him to be struck down to become something else and let Luke fulfill his destiny.
Some emotions of the dark side like frustration and arrogance are very deadly, Vader lost thanks to it, and maul lost to obi wan and Ahsoka thanks to arrogance, in both cases we can say that too much dark side or that getting "consumed" by the dark side is actually an obstacle.
It takes focusing those emotions and being in control of them to be strong with the dark side. Kylo Ren was the best example of this. By being emotionally unbalanced he was made significantly weaker, just as I believe it made Vader weaker here.
Vader never fought Obi Wan, truly hating him. In episode 3 his eyes only turn yellow after he is already defeated, and in the Obi Wan series too, when he has the His helmet is cut, his eyes are also normal, turning yellow afterwards, he wasn't channeling all his power as he should. @@Undefined9
Given the movie literally says that outright and we see it pretty clearly in Vader's actions throughout... Yeah. Can't really see any other explanation
I mean in ANH Vader had no qualms mentally destroying her daughter and engaging in a space aerial battle with his son and in the following movie he certainly didn't think twice when he chopped off Luke's arm
Conflicted about _killing,_ yes. But Vader was 100% in it to win it, bringing 100% of his power and essentially all his skill (aside from dedicated kill strokes, something that would have been difficult to land on Luke regardless) to bear.
Yeah, the way I see it is, Vader is trying to turn his son to the dark side, but he sees such a noble, loving, and determined nature in him that he can't help but respect, and it makes him feel proud of Luke despite himself. He already feels some love for Luke as both his son and one of the few remaining connections to his late wife. Eventually he doesn't feel like turning Luke to the dark side anymore, giving as an excuse that maybe he'll focus on Leia instead. However, this only redoubles Luke's anger, which might paradoxically be evidence of how much Luke's love of goodness and right is engrained in him; he's absolutely determined to prevent those he loves from being corrupted. So now Luke is gaining power in the fight by using his anger, which catches Vader off-guard by itself. But is this anger evidence that Luke is coming closer to the dark side, or is it evidence of his inconquerable determination to protect those he loves (Leia) from falling to the dark side? Furthermore, does Vader even want to turn him to the dark side if justice and compassion are such an integral part of his son? By destroying his son's love of good, is he essentially killing Luke himself? This confusion overwhelms Vader, crushing his commitment to the fight, making him physically weak. After Luke beats Vader in fight, but spares him and gives a final, resounding refusal of the dark side, both Vader and the emperor finally realize that there is just not enough darkness in Luke to ever be useful to the Empire. Having his life spared by Luke after the emperor kind of treated Vader like a tool over the years and most especially now, only deepens Vader's respect for Luke. So you can imagine what internal torture it produces to see Luke, his son and his only real connection to Padme at the moment, be slowly electrocuted by the emperor. But, he says to himself, I've always stood for the dark side and renounced the light. If I turn to the light now, I will have to acknowledge that I am a monster. If my life's work was the destruction of the light when in the end my destiny was to embrace it, then most of my life will have been devoted to making myself miserable in the end. Better to embrace the dark work I've devoted my life to. And if the darkness is my purpose, and Luke is so incorrigibly devoted to the light, then what is he to me but a hindrance to be destroyed? Luke, in a sense, is the light, so must be destroyed. But that thought brings Vader so little comfort as he watches the son he's now come to admire, whose goodness spared Vader's life, die like his mother did so many years ago. Eventually Vader is forced to conclude that Luke is worth something, and therefore the goodness that constitutes Luke must be worth something as well. The misery of facing his sins, which will inevitably come with embracing that light in his son, just does not compare to the misery of watching his son die a horrible death.
I feel like Darth Vader didn’t want to kill him because before they went to see the emperor he looked very calm with him. He’s also his own son. He would’ve felt very sad if he killed his own son
100%. His intention was never to kill him, but instead to sway him towards the dark side. He ultimately wanted to rule side-by-side with him and overtake Sidious!
100%, it was the only part of Padme left (that Vader knew of) so he would of felt a shit ton of emotions going through their duel. But yea Vader would have crushed Luke if it was some other Jedi.
@@VadersOrder he was not angry at sidious he was frustrated with Luke not wanting to turn , him and palatine were competing to turn Luke because it would be too dangerous for either of them to 1 v 1 each other, they were at a stalemate, they needed Luke.
Vader still would've killed Luke if he didn't turn. Vader wasn't going to return to the light, and he couldn't let Luke leave as a Jedi. The only thing left was to fight. In the end, Vader still ended up on the ground with nowhere to go, and Luke seemed to be in a dominant position earlier in the fight anyway, pushing him back and kicking him down the stairs.
That's not working... When Vader and Luke are discussing before meeting the Emperor, Vader says "He is your master now" and he knows about Palpatine's plan to turn Luke to the Dark Side. So Vader knows it, states it, so he can't be angry by that. The only point I see in that debate is that Vader starts to have conflict in himself regarding Luke's fate. He doesn't know for sure if he'd be able to kill his own son if he didn't turn.
Exactly, Anakin was starting to resurface in Vader and he realized that Luke would be going down the same road he did. Plus Sideous wasn't going to just sit there and let Luke kill him
This is speculation from me but Vader could notice how similar this situation is when he defeated dooku and how the tables now had turned. Palpetine betrayed dooku then and palpetine would betray him now. At this moment vader/anakin saw the ultimate truth about the dark side(betrayel and backstabbing) his connection to the dark side could be shaken or even starting to break. together the conflict in himself about his son is a clusterfuck with emotions. Vader fought Luke with Anakin almost being in control again..
I feel extremely sad for Anakin, because he gave everything he had to follow Sidious, and at the end he just throws Vader away like he's nothing. Palpatine's hunger for power never gets satisfied!! 😭😭
The evidence strongly points to Vader knowing he was done for. He abandons his plan to team up with Luke to destroy the emperor, he tells Luke that the emperor is now his master, tells Luke it's pointless to resist, and defends the emperor against Luke's strike. The emperor, on the other hand, tells Vader that his work is finished here which was more than just his work on the Death Star, and then the emperor states it quite bluntly to Luke that he is to replace Vader as his apprentice. In the fight, Vader warns Luke not to lower his defenses, purposefully avoids killing Luke when throwing his lightsaber, and tries to bring out Luke's dark side power. This was done because Vader knew he was being replaced, accepted this fact, and was training Luke to survive for as long as possible as the emperor's new apprentice. However, Vader's near-suicidal mission ended when the emperor tried to kill Luke. For these reasons, Vader didn't "throw the fight" necessarily but he also didn't try to kill Luke at 100%. So, I would object to both the hypothesis that Vader was significantly weaker than Luke and that his feelings for his son emotionally weakened him. He was simply "training" Luke to survive and it got out of hand.
Yeah, he had to have seen that Palpatine was trading him in for a newer apprentice just as he replaced Dooku and that Dooku was killed by his own hand. Even if Luke turning didn't see him dead, by the rule of two Palpatine could not let him live. But of course Anakin was in there too and his feelings were weakening Vader and while he too was willing to sacrifice himself, his desired outcome was to save his son from his hated master.
I may need to rewatch this film again. I have seen it like 30 times and never heard Vader giving Luke tips, like "don't lower your weapon". Is this for real?
@@uatu_the_watcher"It is unwise to lower your defenses!" Vader before striking Luke again, before the scene where Luke tries to dialogue with Vader again and him throwing his saber at him.
And none of what you just said happened in the movie. Luke beat vader using anger after Vader threatened to go after his sister. Vader had to step his combat up because Luke came at him hard.
That’s because of the novelization, which gives a more in-depth view on what happens, Vader threatening Leía was just his final string, right after that, he let loose and listened to what the emperor said
I saw how in Return of the Jedi how Vader just fell down and had Luke hit his lightsaber over and over. I have wondered if the actor did it on purpose, tripped on the cape, or he was supposed to
I’ve had my own theory’s on this, one being that Vader realised something. Vader seemed somewhat hesitant in bringing Luke to the darkside. “It’s to late for me my son” Vader even stops Luke striking the emperor down in anger, we all know how much Vader wanted the emperor dead. When Vader mentioned Leia is when Luke snapped and Vader backed off. My theory is that Vader realised he turned his son to the dark side therefore making fate to be a slave to emperor like him self. Over ridden with guilt Vader couldn’t focus to defend against Luke. Luke even swings widely during his attack, missing by miles. If Vader wanted to he could’ve defeated Luke in those moments.
In fact, in one of the what if stories in the legends, Darth Vader defeated Luke but could not kill his son and daughter and turned against his master.
I guess the trick to beating Anakin/Vader that nobody tried was to just spaz out and club his lightsaber with your own like it's a baseball bat until he gets tired and falls over
Lucas wrote a comic where Vader was being targeted by assassins from Sidious… he confronted him and Sidious said “it’s what we sith do gang, srry” Vader was big mad
He may not be Anakin anymore but he never quite got ahold of his emotions. I couldn’t even imagine how badass he would’ve been had he been able to control them
Nah the real answer is that he was conflicted to hurt his son and about being in the dark side and we know in star wars universe conflicted= you being at 20% of your power
There's a multitude of theories when it comes to analyzing the fight from beginning to end. There's also a theory that the reason why Vader protected the emperor, was because Anakin was instinctively preventing his son from truly embracing the dark side. Although Vader's intentions were to turn his son to the dark side, you can clearly see the internal battle between him, and Anakin. Vader was the weakest he had ever been while fighting Luke.
@@Broshorts14what he lacked in conventional training he made up for in experience and raw potential Between ESB and RoTJ there's roughly a year where Luke spends his time fighting and training, even learning how to build his own saber (If I'm not mistaken that is cannon in both EU and Disney)
Vader loss because he suggested turn Leia to the dark side. This enraged Luke to the point that he drew on the dark side to beat him. But when he had the chance to think he rejected the dark side.
It also just makes the most sense within the story. If Luke was actually weaker and incapable of beating Vader on equal footing, it’d make Yoda absolutely horrible for sending Luke to fight him.
I personally think Vader didn't want to kill his son, but most of all, he didn't want him to become like him. Yes, he'd goad, but when Luke started using his anger, I like to think Anakin saw himself in Luke at that moment and the idea his son could become the monster he had turned into terrified him.
Iirc, in the novelization, it's said that every strike Lule threw during his rally was taking years off of Vader's life, even through Vader's blocking. The sheer force of each blow was just rocking through his body and really piling on damage.
I know that there has been a long-standing debate amongst fans regarding Darth Vader's actions in Return of The Jedi. In my opinion, based on the lore and Darth Vader's character development, he was growing increasingly distant from his Master, Emperor Palpatine. This was not the first time that Palpatine had tried to replace Vader, as he had done it multiple times throughout the 20-year history of The Empire. The cracks in their relationship began to show after the events of A New Hope, when Vader was blamed for the destruction of the Death Star, even though it was Tarkin's fault due to his hubris and unwillingness to take the Rebellion seriously. Tarkin only received orders from Palpatine, and not even Vader could truly order him around at that point. As a result, Vader began to believe that there was no place for him in The Empire, since his own Master couldn't see past his pride and ego to acknowledge that the mistakes were his and not Vader's. When Vader found out that Luke was his son, it shattered his world and he became solely focused on bringing Luke to his side. During Return of the Jedi, Vader could have easily killed his son, as Luke was only at the level of a Jedi Knight. Luke knew this, which is why his goal was to convince his father to rejoin the light side, rather than directly fighting him. If Vader had chosen to stop trying to convert his son and just defeat him outright, Luke had no chance of winning. Keep in mind that Vader had hunted Jedi for over 20 years, defeating many masters and becoming a master of all forms of lightsaber combat. I'm not trying to undersell Luke, but during Return of the Jedi, he simply wasn't powerful enough to defeat Vader. However, Vader had no intention of harming his son, as Luke was the remnants of what he had with Padme, and that was something Vader couldn't bear to lose, even if it meant his own death.
Only at the _rank_ of a Jedi Knight Tester yes. But like his father before him Luke completely blows the top off the power scales. By a much higher degree than Annie.
@@priestesslucy3299 We don't see any feat that would suggest Luke is anywhere near Anakin's level as Jedi Knight by the time of ROTJ and Anakin should have been Master by that point but The Jedi council refused so that's not valid point and yes Luke does become more powerful but much later after ROTJ and not before.
@@EternalDaybreak the problem with 'feats' is the difference in technology and choreography between the OST and the PT. If you're going to reject his victory over Vader (a legitimate, honest victory against an equal outside the fandumb that can't handle Luke's growth) then there is not much without dipping into supplemental material.
@@priestesslucy3299 I am not judging their duel based on the technology of the time during the original trilogy. I am using source material that we can rely on, which shows that Luke was not capable enough to kill Vader or Palpatine. While it might have been a bit closer in Legends, canon shows that Darth Vader became more powerful with each passing day, which even surprised Palpatine, as he didn't think Vader could get more powerful after the injuries he sustained while fighting Obi-Wan. I'm sorry, but there is much more lore to back up Vader than there is for Luke in this instance."
Though he blindly followed every order Palpatine gave, he still resented the man. He knew that he was the reason why Padme was taken from him. It was that anger that kept him going all this time. He wasn't about to lose his son to this maniac too.
The clue with strong negative emotions is as followed: First hate and anger make you stronger. But they take their toll and over time, they drain your inner power and leave you hollow. That is the deception of the dark side.
It wasn't his emotions that became his weakness, it was his injuries. Luke would have needed at least another decade to catch up to Vader had he remained whole. As it was, we got the classic story of the son surpassing the father, as a little bow tied ontop of the greater story of compassion and redemption.
I remember in the novel he was very conflicted but he did say he was going all out because of how dangerous Luke was. It’s hard to tell based on this description where Vader was actually able to give it his peak based on his conflict.
@@erosrodriguez538 nah cuz Vader could destroy maul. The only ones to be able to defeat Vader as of ROTJ would be Yoda and Mace he even surpassed Obiwan in power by then
@@AjedigetreadytodieAHHHHHH I know, but that's an INSANE Power level, it's like saying Luke Is stronger than Dooku which Is one of the Best (if not the Best) duelist in all Star Wars. Vader couldn't beat Obi Wan tho.
@@erosrodriguez538 dooku isn’t the best he’s one of the best🙏 according to a canon book here’s the best dark side duelists 1. Vader 2. Sidious 3. Maul 4. Tyranus 5. Ventress Not to mention George Lucas’s statements abt Luke
He was conflicted. Half defeated, believing that he had no choice but serve palpatine now that Luke refused to join him in overthrowing the emperor,and the other half desiring to come back to the light and letting Anakin return.
It’s always been my headcanon that Vader was conflicted and held back and let Luke win, it just never made sense to me that Luke with barely any training was able to beat Vader at his absolute peak
Nah. He was holding back and feeling the conflict within. Had to have so many things running through his mind at the time. Thoughts of Padme and what he had done so many years ago. He didn't want to kill his son. At worst, he wanted him to join him. The scene where Luke turns himself in and they confront each other on Endor is so powerful. You can tell even through the mask that after Luke said my father truly is dead that that really got to him at his core. Whoever was in that suit did a phenomenal job conveying those emotions eith body language
No I’m pretty sure Vader just couldn’t bring himself to kill his son. Let me explain, when Vader was taking Luke to Palpatine, he said “I see you’ve constructed a new saber” and as he ignited it and seen the green blade, he was proud of Luke, he seen how much Luke had grown in such little time since their last face to face. Green sabers are usually wielded by those who are very strong in the force. Not only that, I believe Vader was proud that Luke didn’t fall to the dark side as easily as he did, Luke wasn’t going to let the dark side control him. I think Vader was jealous when Palpatine was rooting for Luke to win but that’s not the reason he lost. Vader loved Padme, he could never destroy what they created together.
In the Movie: I had friendly interactions with Luke (I didn't had those since Padme) at this point I don't really want to kill him. Here: Palpatine wants Luke to win, so I'll do what I always do... Use Emotions and Frustration to grow STRONGE-(loses anyway).
Sedious already had questioned Vadar’s feelings on Luke. Vadar always had a bad habit of letting his feelings overcome him. I’m pretty sure he knew he wouldn’t kill his own son and felt Vadar was weak emotionally.
I always thought since Dark Side users powers come from emotions like hate and anger and Vader really felt neither toward his own son, so simply could not muster up the emotional intensity to fight at more than a fraction of his true power.
From that Point, Vader was tired. We saw Vader almost get defeated several times (recent ones were against Obi-Wan, Ahsoka and Cere Junda). With him weakened, his locked-in emotions also opened like a Wound, Luke is his Child with Padme and Padme was everything to the man Vader once was.
Vader wasn’t weak at all. After all, he was one of the most feared man in the galaxy for a reason. The reason he lost the fight against Luke was that he was already very conflicted about turning/having to kill his son. Partly because he was one of his last few connections to Padmé, and partly because he must’ve reminded him so much of his younger self. Also, a lot of people seem to forget that Vader had always been so powerful because of all the anger and hatred that was fueling the Dark Side in him, which essentially had been keeping him alive. That anger and hatred wasn’t there against Luke, instead his love and caring for him came through, ultimately weakening his connection to the Dark Side, which, in turn, made him lose what had been keeping him alive for so long.
Vader was conflicted. He wanted to have Luke help him kill the Emperor. During the whole thing, he saw how that would pull Luke into where he was - a living Hell. Luke wasn't a master yet. He wasn't ready. Vader wasn't ready to kill his son.
The expectations on the prequal and comic duels made a unrealistic expectation on the originals, it hurts both Luke and Vader's character and I choose to think that these two were both giving their all, as to not diminishes the emotional weight of the fight
This made no sense. I think it has to do with Vader finding out he has a daughter and then seeing Luke turn to the dark side to defend her hits Vader deep and he just goes on the defensive and Luke just bests him.
You can have both dark side powers and jedi powers. It just depends if you choose to use those piwers for good or evil. The video games "The Force Unleashed" shows this. He has dark side powers and is extremely strong. You dont have to use them for evil and can choose to be good and use the dark side powers for good.
There is that Vader was losing his connection to the darkside which helped make him powerful. Without that connection anymore he became weak which is why I think he couldn’t fight anymore.
People keep missing this, George Lucas had a clear message here. Darth Vader was getting older, was out of practice by not having fought a lot of Jedi since they were all dead, and Luke was rising up quickly. It is youth against age. Luke had the stronger energy and force around him. People say Vader was conflicted but so was Luke. Also Vader was conflicted in Empire but that didn't stop him from ruthlessly fighting Luke and cutting off his hand.
We also have to add that Vader was still suffering from his injuries from his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar. Even if the prequels wasn't made when Return of the jedi came out, Lucas still had the idea of Vader being damaged wish we see already in Empire Strikes Back when he get the helmet put on.
Makes more sense when you realize feeding on your opponent's emotions for power is a dark side trait and this is where luke momentarily gave in, after being threatened with Leia being turned. Watch anakin v ventress on yavin to understand more.
The answer is that filmmaking is an ever evolving craft. It is pointless to judge the strength of SW characters via their film's choreographies - otherwise any Episode I to III Padawan teleported to Episode IV's Death Star would completely wipe the floor with both Vader and old-man Obi Wan simultaneously.
Something else to consider is that Vader was conflicted during that fight, Luke says so himself. It’s possible that he didn’t go his hardest fighting his son because he was conflicted.
It’s not like that at all the emperor and Vader both wanted Luke to turn to the dark side once Luke and Vader started dueling Vader tried to aggravate luke by attacking aggressively and when that didn’t work he choose to take a more personal approach hoping that if Luke attacked him with hate he would fall to the dark side
Luke was OVERTLY and OBVIOUSLY holding back, switching his saber off in the middle of the fight and declaring that he didn't want to fight him. Vader was never a match for Luke at this point.
Dark side: emotions and hate make you stronger.
Dark side: emotions and frustration make you weaker.
Yea cause he was his son so the emotion was prolly him caring for Luke. Had it been someone else like Obi then vader's anger would help him. The type of emotion is what
Matters to the sith I believe.
@@mnco5741It didn't help him in both fights against Obi-Wan, though; he mopped the floor with Vader. Only time Vader finally got him was because he allowed him to be struck down to become something else and let Luke fulfill his destiny.
Some emotions of the dark side like frustration and arrogance are very deadly, Vader lost thanks to it, and maul lost to obi wan and Ahsoka thanks to arrogance, in both cases we can say that too much dark side or that getting "consumed" by the dark side is actually an obstacle.
It takes focusing those emotions and being in control of them to be strong with the dark side. Kylo Ren was the best example of this. By being emotionally unbalanced he was made significantly weaker, just as I believe it made Vader weaker here.
Vader never fought Obi Wan, truly hating him. In episode 3 his eyes only turn yellow after he is already defeated, and in the Obi Wan series too, when he has the His helmet is cut, his eyes are also normal, turning yellow afterwards, he wasn't channeling all his power as he should. @@Undefined9
Pretty sure Vader was just conflicted about killing his son.
He was
Given the movie literally says that outright and we see it pretty clearly in Vader's actions throughout... Yeah. Can't really see any other explanation
I mean in ANH Vader had no qualms mentally destroying her daughter and engaging in a space aerial battle with his son and in the following movie he certainly didn't think twice when he chopped off Luke's arm
Conflicted about _killing,_ yes. But Vader was 100% in it to win it, bringing 100% of his power and essentially all his skill (aside from dedicated kill strokes, something that would have been difficult to land on Luke regardless) to bear.
Yeah, the way I see it is, Vader is trying to turn his son to the dark side, but he sees such a noble, loving, and determined nature in him that he can't help but respect, and it makes him feel proud of Luke despite himself. He already feels some love for Luke as both his son and one of the few remaining connections to his late wife. Eventually he doesn't feel like turning Luke to the dark side anymore, giving as an excuse that maybe he'll focus on Leia instead. However, this only redoubles Luke's anger, which might paradoxically be evidence of how much Luke's love of goodness and right is engrained in him; he's absolutely determined to prevent those he loves from being corrupted. So now Luke is gaining power in the fight by using his anger, which catches Vader off-guard by itself. But is this anger evidence that Luke is coming closer to the dark side, or is it evidence of his inconquerable determination to protect those he loves (Leia) from falling to the dark side? Furthermore, does Vader even want to turn him to the dark side if justice and compassion are such an integral part of his son? By destroying his son's love of good, is he essentially killing Luke himself? This confusion overwhelms Vader, crushing his commitment to the fight, making him physically weak.
After Luke beats Vader in fight, but spares him and gives a final, resounding refusal of the dark side, both Vader and the emperor finally realize that there is just not enough darkness in Luke to ever be useful to the Empire. Having his life spared by Luke after the emperor kind of treated Vader like a tool over the years and most especially now, only deepens Vader's respect for Luke. So you can imagine what internal torture it produces to see Luke, his son and his only real connection to Padme at the moment, be slowly electrocuted by the emperor.
But, he says to himself, I've always stood for the dark side and renounced the light. If I turn to the light now, I will have to acknowledge that I am a monster. If my life's work was the destruction of the light when in the end my destiny was to embrace it, then most of my life will have been devoted to making myself miserable in the end. Better to embrace the dark work I've devoted my life to. And if the darkness is my purpose, and Luke is so incorrigibly devoted to the light, then what is he to me but a hindrance to be destroyed? Luke, in a sense, is the light, so must be destroyed. But that thought brings Vader so little comfort as he watches the son he's now come to admire, whose goodness spared Vader's life, die like his mother did so many years ago. Eventually Vader is forced to conclude that Luke is worth something, and therefore the goodness that constitutes Luke must be worth something as well. The misery of facing his sins, which will inevitably come with embracing that light in his son, just does not compare to the misery of watching his son die a horrible death.
I feel like Darth Vader didn’t want to kill him because before they went to see the emperor he looked very calm with him. He’s also his own son. He would’ve felt very sad if he killed his own son
100%. His intention was never to kill him, but instead to sway him towards the dark side. He ultimately wanted to rule side-by-side with him and overtake Sidious!
100%, it was the only part of Padme left (that Vader knew of) so he would of felt a shit ton of emotions going through their duel. But yea Vader would have crushed Luke if it was some other Jedi.
@@VadersOrder he was not angry at sidious he was frustrated with Luke not wanting to turn , him and palatine were competing to turn Luke because it would be too dangerous for either of them to 1 v 1 each other, they were at a stalemate, they needed Luke.
Vader still would've killed Luke if he didn't turn. Vader wasn't going to return to the light, and he couldn't let Luke leave as a Jedi. The only thing left was to fight.
In the end, Vader still ended up on the ground with nowhere to go, and Luke seemed to be in a dominant position earlier in the fight anyway, pushing him back and kicking him down the stairs.
@@Rjbatz22567 This information comes from the novel "The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader!"
he must have seen the parallel between this and his own fight with Dooku
Also with grevious.
@@In4inite_Anakin never foughy Grievous
He and the 2 that upvoted him don't know star wars@@angerami77
@@angerami77you have never seen clone wars
@@DaroZuo i did, Grievous and Anakin never fought PERSONALLY
That's not working... When Vader and Luke are discussing before meeting the Emperor, Vader says "He is your master now" and he knows about Palpatine's plan to turn Luke to the Dark Side. So Vader knows it, states it, so he can't be angry by that. The only point I see in that debate is that Vader starts to have conflict in himself regarding Luke's fate. He doesn't know for sure if he'd be able to kill his own son if he didn't turn.
Exactly, Anakin was starting to resurface in Vader and he realized that Luke would be going down the same road he did. Plus Sideous wasn't going to just sit there and let Luke kill him
Exactly, he already knew Palpatine’s nature
Nah Vader was bringing his full might down onto luke
@@vintvarner16yes he would? 😭 the rule of two buddy
This is speculation from me but Vader could notice how similar this situation is when he defeated dooku and how the tables now had turned. Palpetine betrayed dooku then and palpetine would betray him now. At this moment vader/anakin saw the ultimate truth about the dark side(betrayel and backstabbing) his connection to the dark side could be shaken or even starting to break.
together the conflict in himself about his son is a clusterfuck with emotions. Vader fought Luke with Anakin almost being in control again..
I feel extremely sad for Anakin, because he gave everything he had to follow Sidious, and at the end he just throws Vader away like he's nothing. Palpatine's hunger for power never gets satisfied!! 😭😭
Not even with...
...*unlimited* power...?
I'll see myself out
I mean, it IS the way of the Sith.
He did the same to maul and dooku
He did the same to maul and dooku
@@johnbabylon7626No, no you got a point. Get back in here.😂
The evidence strongly points to Vader knowing he was done for. He abandons his plan to team up with Luke to destroy the emperor, he tells Luke that the emperor is now his master, tells Luke it's pointless to resist, and defends the emperor against Luke's strike. The emperor, on the other hand, tells Vader that his work is finished here which was more than just his work on the Death Star, and then the emperor states it quite bluntly to Luke that he is to replace Vader as his apprentice. In the fight, Vader warns Luke not to lower his defenses, purposefully avoids killing Luke when throwing his lightsaber, and tries to bring out Luke's dark side power. This was done because Vader knew he was being replaced, accepted this fact, and was training Luke to survive for as long as possible as the emperor's new apprentice. However, Vader's near-suicidal mission ended when the emperor tried to kill Luke. For these reasons, Vader didn't "throw the fight" necessarily but he also didn't try to kill Luke at 100%. So, I would object to both the hypothesis that Vader was significantly weaker than Luke and that his feelings for his son emotionally weakened him. He was simply "training" Luke to survive and it got out of hand.
Yeah, he had to have seen that Palpatine was trading him in for a newer apprentice just as he replaced Dooku and that Dooku was killed by his own hand. Even if Luke turning didn't see him dead, by the rule of two Palpatine could not let him live. But of course Anakin was in there too and his feelings were weakening Vader and while he too was willing to sacrifice himself, his desired outcome was to save his son from his hated master.
I may need to rewatch this film again. I have seen it like 30 times and never heard Vader giving Luke tips, like "don't lower your weapon". Is this for real?
Wisest comment I've seen this far.
@@uatu_the_watcher He said it was unwise to lower your defenses right before he attacked.
@@uatu_the_watcher"It is unwise to lower your defenses!"
Vader before striking Luke again, before the scene where Luke tries to dialogue with Vader again and him throwing his saber at him.
And none of what you just said happened in the movie.
Luke beat vader using anger after Vader threatened to go after his sister.
Vader had to step his combat up because Luke came at him hard.
That’s because of the novelization, which gives a more in-depth view on what happens, Vader threatening Leía was just his final string, right after that, he let loose and listened to what the emperor said
I saw how in Return of the Jedi how Vader just fell down and had Luke hit his lightsaber over and over. I have wondered if the actor did it on purpose, tripped on the cape, or he was supposed to
Yeah. That part was reeeeaally strange
Throughout the prequels and clone wars we see Anakin do the same thing to overpower his enemies.
@@Dick_Dastardly4_7 i meant the part where Vader strangely "tripped"
Probably because of his big ass suit
I’ve had my own theory’s on this, one being that Vader realised something.
Vader seemed somewhat hesitant in bringing Luke to the darkside. “It’s to late for me my son” Vader even stops Luke striking the emperor down in anger, we all know how much Vader wanted the emperor dead.
When Vader mentioned Leia is when Luke snapped and Vader backed off. My theory is that Vader realised he turned his son to the dark side therefore making fate to be a slave to emperor like him self. Over ridden with guilt Vader couldn’t focus to defend against Luke.
Luke even swings widely during his attack, missing by miles. If Vader wanted to he could’ve defeated Luke in those moments.
In fact, in one of the what if stories in the legends, Darth Vader defeated Luke but could not kill his son and daughter and turned against his master.
Dang Vader. You really don't know how to get out of an abusive relationship. 😂
I guess the trick to beating Anakin/Vader that nobody tried was to just spaz out and club his lightsaber with your own like it's a baseball bat until he gets tired and falls over
I can suspend my disbelief on that. Luke's a super Jedi or something.
Vader: wait a second this peace of shxt did the same thing when I fought Dooku !
Yall think about this harder than Lucas ever did
Real shit
Cause Lucas said it
Vader meat riders just can’t accept the truth
Lucas wrote a comic where Vader was being targeted by assassins from Sidious… he confronted him and Sidious said “it’s what we sith do gang, srry” Vader was big mad
@@YodaInASweater 💀💀😂
He may not be Anakin anymore but he never quite got ahold of his emotions. I couldn’t even imagine how badass he would’ve been had he been able to control them
Well he is when he’s fighting pretty much everyone that he doesn’t know or care about
Nah the real answer is that he was conflicted to hurt his son and about being in the dark side and we know in star wars universe conflicted= you being at 20% of your power
Vader knew Palpatine expected him to end up like Dooku.
There's a multitude of theories when it comes to analyzing the fight from beginning to end. There's also a theory that the reason why Vader protected the emperor, was because Anakin was instinctively preventing his son from truly embracing the dark side. Although Vader's intentions were to turn his son to the dark side, you can clearly see the internal battle between him, and Anakin. Vader was the weakest he had ever been while fighting Luke.
And in the canon ROTJ novelization it literally says that Vader was being his full might down onto Luke proving ROTJ is Vaders prime
Luke was just that strong. That’s why gets that badass intro sequence at Jabba’s. His training is complete. Vader literally says that later.
@@Buttington_Headerson it also says that Luke lacked Obiwan and yoda’s lightsaber training bro.
@@Broshorts14what he lacked in conventional training he made up for in experience and raw potential
Between ESB and RoTJ there's roughly a year where Luke spends his time fighting and training, even learning how to build his own saber (If I'm not mistaken that is cannon in both EU and Disney)
@@thiago292 my point still stands, Luke was padawan level in the canon and then got higher up after ROTJ
Vader doesnt want to kill him, he wanted to convert Luke to the dark side. In fact he loved his son and that emotion made him weaker.
Vader loss because he suggested turn Leia to the dark side. This enraged Luke to the point that he drew on the dark side to beat him. But when he had the chance to think he rejected the dark side.
Exactly people always trying to be smarter by searching for explanations that were already explained 🤦🏽♂️
He needed his Cervesa Cristal.
At 0:48 I love it how Vader turns and looks at Luke like “what did you do this time?” Vibe
I don't know.... Anakin / Vader is the #1 duelist. Luke couldn't have beaten him that easily
Rey Skywalker solos both GG
It wasn't exactly easy. Until Luke tapped into the dark side and straight overpowered him.
Your going to get rekt, good luck@@albertthepeacock8020
Yes he could. The choreography just didn't age Well. Read Skywalker a family at war. Luke OVERPOWERD Vader
@joel5135 Are you stinking saying that a barely-trained kids could beat a master of both dark and light, and who's the MF chosen one??
Ever considered the fact that Darth Vader was probably just getting old
I don’t think he could stand to loose another family member, and especially one who is part Padme.
it occurs to me that in learning about Luke's sister, it may have sunk in how much Palpatine twisted things to manipulate him, too.
We forget why Aiken is even a with.
Lucas said they were equals, end of story.
Vader or Disney meat riders are both wrong.
It also just makes the most sense within the story. If Luke was actually weaker and incapable of beating Vader on equal footing, it’d make Yoda absolutely horrible for sending Luke to fight him.
And yet he also said that Vader was more powerful in an interview about why kids love Vader, so his statements are not exactly consistent
The explanation is: OLD MOVIE. Just that. They did what they could with what they have
I personally think Vader didn't want to kill his son, but most of all, he didn't want him to become like him. Yes, he'd goad, but when Luke started using his anger, I like to think Anakin saw himself in Luke at that moment and the idea his son could become the monster he had turned into terrified him.
It’s a total mirror of when palpatine was rooting for Anakin to defeat Dooku as well
No. Lukes emotions for Leia's safety enraged him that moment making him overpower Vader. Burst of anger and rage.👍✌️🌟💫✨
Oh yeah he threatened leia that’s why Luke raged
It is related to real life, when you do something with emotion, frustrating & too forcing, the result will be mess.
So this one as an example. 👍👍🙏🏻🙏🏻
Iirc, in the novelization, it's said that every strike Lule threw during his rally was taking years off of Vader's life, even through Vader's blocking. The sheer force of each blow was just rocking through his body and really piling on damage.
"Your frustration has unbalanced you. That is not the Master way, is it?"
They just didn't have the same coriography for lightsaber duels as they do now
For every like on this comment I will donate 1 kidney
Like yours or.....
@@Coolguy_4220 does it matter?
Its best not to ask.. lmao@user-jt3er3qm7o
😳
It looks like you are all out of Kidneys Lol
anikan/vader was at the strongest when he didn't use emotions. but when he fought someone he had connection with, he became reckless
Or was Vader remembering this being eerily similar to his own duel with Dooku years ago?
Vader had conflict and Luke tapped into the dark side in that moment
I know that there has been a long-standing debate amongst fans regarding Darth Vader's actions in Return of The Jedi.
In my opinion, based on the lore and Darth Vader's character development, he was growing increasingly distant from his Master, Emperor Palpatine. This was not the first time that Palpatine had tried to replace Vader, as he had done it multiple times throughout the 20-year history of The Empire. The cracks in their relationship began to show after the events of A New Hope, when Vader was blamed for the destruction of the Death Star, even though it was Tarkin's fault due to his hubris and unwillingness to take the Rebellion seriously. Tarkin only received orders from Palpatine, and not even Vader could truly order him around at that point.
As a result, Vader began to believe that there was no place for him in The Empire, since his own Master couldn't see past his pride and ego to acknowledge that the mistakes were his and not Vader's. When Vader found out that Luke was his son, it shattered his world and he became solely focused on bringing Luke to his side.
During Return of the Jedi, Vader could have easily killed his son, as Luke was only at the level of a Jedi Knight. Luke knew this, which is why his goal was to convince his father to rejoin the light side, rather than directly fighting him.
If Vader had chosen to stop trying to convert his son and just defeat him outright, Luke had no chance of winning. Keep in mind that Vader had hunted Jedi for over 20 years, defeating many masters and becoming a master of all forms of lightsaber combat.
I'm not trying to undersell Luke, but during Return of the Jedi, he simply wasn't powerful enough to defeat Vader. However, Vader had no intention of harming his son, as Luke was the remnants of what he had with Padme, and that was something Vader couldn't bear to lose, even if it meant his own death.
Only at the _rank_ of a Jedi Knight Tester yes.
But like his father before him Luke completely blows the top off the power scales. By a much higher degree than Annie.
@@priestesslucy3299 We don't see any feat that would suggest Luke is anywhere near Anakin's level as Jedi Knight by the time of ROTJ and Anakin should have been Master by that point but The Jedi council refused so that's not valid point and yes Luke does become more powerful but much later after ROTJ and not before.
@@EternalDaybreak the problem with 'feats' is the difference in technology and choreography between the OST and the PT.
If you're going to reject his victory over Vader (a legitimate, honest victory against an equal outside the fandumb that can't handle Luke's growth) then there is not much without dipping into supplemental material.
@@priestesslucy3299 I am not judging their duel based on the technology of the time during the original trilogy. I am using source material that we can rely on, which shows that Luke was not capable enough to kill Vader or Palpatine. While it might have been a bit closer in Legends, canon shows that Darth Vader became more powerful with each passing day, which even surprised Palpatine, as he didn't think Vader could get more powerful after the injuries he sustained while fighting Obi-Wan. I'm sorry, but there is much more lore to back up Vader than there is for Luke in this instance."
@@SidiousNegsValkorion Even the film script
The dark side: your anger and hatred make you stronger
Also the dark side: it’s gonna fuck you over!
You can see the crack in the bar that makes it look like when the luke green saber hits it to make it look like it’s cut in half.
Don’t down play my boy luke.
Vader literally had that "WHY DO YOU DO THIS EVERY FUCKING TIME!?" moment.
Though he blindly followed every order Palpatine gave, he still resented the man. He knew that he was the reason why Padme was taken from him. It was that anger that kept him going all this time. He wasn't about to lose his son to this maniac too.
"your need to prove yourself will be your undoing Anakin"
The clue with strong negative emotions is as followed:
First hate and anger make you stronger. But they take their toll and over time, they drain your inner power and leave you hollow.
That is the deception of the dark side.
That is bullshit
How
@@TMC26016 overthinking
What a terrifying yet elegant being
It wasn't his emotions that became his weakness, it was his injuries.
Luke would have needed at least another decade to catch up to Vader had he remained whole. As it was, we got the classic story of the son surpassing the father, as a little bow tied ontop of the greater story of compassion and redemption.
I remember in the novel he was very conflicted but he did say he was going all out because of how dangerous Luke was. It’s hard to tell based on this description where Vader was actually able to give it his peak based on his conflict.
He also knew that if he tried against Luke then Luke would have to use his anger and Vader didnt want Luke to end up like him
Also Luke was on Mace Windu level in that movie lol
Watching the video, It do feels, I don't really think Luke Is THAT strong here, he would be like Maul level
@@erosrodriguez538 nah cuz Vader could destroy maul. The only ones to be able to defeat Vader as of ROTJ would be Yoda and Mace he even surpassed Obiwan in power by then
@@AjedigetreadytodieAHHHHHH I know, but that's an INSANE Power level, it's like saying Luke Is stronger than Dooku which Is one of the Best (if not the Best) duelist in all Star Wars.
Vader couldn't beat Obi Wan tho.
@@erosrodriguez538 dooku isn’t the best he’s one of the best🙏 according to a canon book here’s the best dark side duelists
1. Vader 2. Sidious 3. Maul 4. Tyranus 5. Ventress
Not to mention George Lucas’s statements abt Luke
@@erosrodriguez538you’re confusing movie fight choreography with actually in lore power scaling
Kinda makes sense
You did explain comics of darth vader trying to avoid his emotions
He only wants anger
He was conflicted. Half defeated, believing that he had no choice but serve palpatine now that Luke refused to join him in overthrowing the emperor,and the other half desiring to come back to the light and letting Anakin return.
It's stated that Vader was trying to kill him, but they were even matched duelists. It was only after Luke tapped into the darkside he defeated him.
It’s always been my headcanon that Vader was conflicted and held back and let Luke win, it just never made sense to me that Luke with barely any training was able to beat Vader at his absolute peak
Nah. He was holding back and feeling the conflict within. Had to have so many things running through his mind at the time. Thoughts of Padme and what he had done so many years ago. He didn't want to kill his son. At worst, he wanted him to join him. The scene where Luke turns himself in and they confront each other on Endor is so powerful. You can tell even through the mask that after Luke said my father truly is dead that that really got to him at his core. Whoever was in that suit did a phenomenal job conveying those emotions eith body language
If Vader let Luke win then clearly he haven't learned from Dooku
No I’m pretty sure Vader just couldn’t bring himself to kill his son. Let me explain, when Vader was taking Luke to Palpatine, he said “I see you’ve constructed a new saber” and as he ignited it and seen the green blade, he was proud of Luke, he seen how much Luke had grown in such little time since their last face to face. Green sabers are usually wielded by those who are very strong in the force. Not only that, I believe Vader was proud that Luke didn’t fall to the dark side as easily as he did, Luke wasn’t going to let the dark side control him. I think Vader was jealous when Palpatine was rooting for Luke to win but that’s not the reason he lost. Vader loved Padme, he could never destroy what they created together.
It's not that he let him win, it's that he didn't really want to win.
In the Movie: I had friendly interactions with Luke (I didn't had those since Padme) at this point I don't really want to kill him.
Here: Palpatine wants Luke to win, so I'll do what I always do... Use Emotions and Frustration to grow STRONGE-(loses anyway).
The irony of Vader losing coming full circle again from Obi Wan to Luke cls he couldn't control his emotions
I always felt Luke got into his head when They talked in that hallway.
Sedious already had questioned Vadar’s feelings on Luke. Vadar always had a bad habit of letting his feelings overcome him. I’m pretty sure he knew he wouldn’t kill his own son and felt Vadar was weak emotionally.
I always thought since Dark Side users powers come from emotions like hate and anger and Vader really felt neither toward his own son, so simply could not muster up the emotional intensity to fight at more than a fraction of his true power.
Vader probably should have seen that coming considering Palpatine did literally the EXACT same thing with Count Dooku to Anakin.
Sith only have 2, so palpatine wanted luke to win so he would become his fresh new apprentice.
From that Point, Vader was tired. We saw Vader almost get defeated several times (recent ones were against Obi-Wan, Ahsoka and Cere Junda). With him weakened, his locked-in emotions also opened like a Wound, Luke is his Child with Padme and Padme was everything to the man Vader once was.
He lost his mother, his girlfriend, he did just not want to lost his son...
Vader wasn’t weak at all. After all, he was one of the most feared man in the galaxy for a reason.
The reason he lost the fight against Luke was that he was already very conflicted about turning/having to kill his son. Partly because he was one of his last few connections to Padmé, and partly because he must’ve reminded him so much of his younger self.
Also, a lot of people seem to forget that Vader had always been so powerful because of all the anger and hatred that was fueling the Dark Side in him, which essentially had been keeping him alive. That anger and hatred wasn’t there against Luke, instead his love and caring for him came through, ultimately weakening his connection to the Dark Side, which, in turn, made him lose what had been keeping him alive for so long.
Prophecy does not lie. That was the time and moment the force wanted the chosen one to defeat the sith and bring balance to the force...
Anakin is the chosen one, not Luke
@@Callaghan552 yes
Plaps wasn't wanting Luke to win per say it's more use his hate and anger to bring him to the dark side. But knowing Anakin you're probably right.
I think Luke’s sudden surge caught Vader off guard.
Vader was conflicted.
He wanted to have Luke help him kill the Emperor. During the whole thing, he saw how that would pull Luke into where he was - a living Hell.
Luke wasn't a master yet. He wasn't ready. Vader wasn't ready to kill his son.
The expectations on the prequal and comic duels made a unrealistic expectation on the originals, it hurts both Luke and Vader's character and I choose to think that these two were both giving their all, as to not diminishes the emotional weight of the fight
This made no sense. I think it has to do with Vader finding out he has a daughter and then seeing Luke turn to the dark side to defend her hits Vader deep and he just goes on the defensive and Luke just bests him.
Source can always be found in the description! 😊
You can have both dark side powers and jedi powers. It just depends if you choose to use those piwers for good or evil. The video games "The Force Unleashed" shows this. He has dark side powers and is extremely strong. You dont have to use them for evil and can choose to be good and use the dark side powers for good.
He had a flashback to when he fought count Doku and realized he fell for the same lies and had made a mistake following his new master
Got dang it Anakin! Lol man my boy always lettin' me down😭lol
There is that Vader was losing his connection to the darkside which helped make him powerful. Without that connection anymore he became weak which is why I think he couldn’t fight anymore.
It's crazy that Darth Vader was only 45 when he died.
People keep missing this, George Lucas had a clear message here. Darth Vader was getting older, was out of practice by not having fought a lot of Jedi since they were all dead, and Luke was rising up quickly. It is youth against age. Luke had the stronger energy and force around him. People say Vader was conflicted but so was Luke. Also Vader was conflicted in Empire but that didn't stop him from ruthlessly fighting Luke and cutting off his hand.
We also have to add that Vader was still suffering from his injuries from his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar. Even if the prequels wasn't made when Return of the jedi came out, Lucas still had the idea of Vader being damaged wish we see already in Empire Strikes Back when he get the helmet put on.
How did Vader not see Luke hiding in plain sight?
Considering Luke is all Vader has left of Padme, I don't see Vader willingly trying to kill Luke
He just fell down and took a dive so probably
Makes more sense when you realize feeding on your opponent's emotions for power is a dark side trait and this is where luke momentarily gave in, after being threatened with Leia being turned. Watch anakin v ventress on yavin to understand more.
The answer is that filmmaking is an ever evolving craft. It is pointless to judge the strength of SW characters via their film's choreographies - otherwise any Episode I to III Padawan teleported to Episode IV's Death Star would completely wipe the floor with both Vader and old-man Obi Wan simultaneously.
Well it’s a difference to fight someone who you hate and to fight someone who you love
Always thought the Emporer wanted them both dead. Skywalkers together poses a bigger threat, plus Vader must have known he was lied to.
When grandpa is rooting his your grandson and not you:
Something else to consider is that Vader was conflicted during that fight, Luke says so himself. It’s possible that he didn’t go his hardest fighting his son because he was conflicted.
And that was the story of Anakin/Vader’s weakness all throughout his life. He let his emotions consume him his entire life.
just same as dooku vs anakin duel in rots
Luke did say he feels the conflict wen palpatine said he's father couldn't be rescued
From the dark side
It’s not like that at all the emperor and Vader both wanted Luke to turn to the dark side once Luke and Vader started dueling Vader tried to aggravate luke by attacking aggressively and when that didn’t work he choose to take a more personal approach hoping that if Luke attacked him with hate he would fall to the dark side
I think you’re overthinking something that’s already basically proven. It was his son and he was conflicted about killing him
Source can always be found in the description! 😊
Luke was OVERTLY and OBVIOUSLY holding back, switching his saber off in the middle of the fight and declaring that he didn't want to fight him. Vader was never a match for Luke at this point.
Media literacy is truly dead if people thought he was letting Luke win
It was the conflict he had never felt before. Anakin not wanting to kill his son and Darth Vader longing for Masters approval.
He didn’t wanna kill his son and I’m fairly sure he was sick of the constant abuse from Palpatine