12V Lithium Upgrade Headway 38120 Cells - 100A continuous (2018)
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![[Full Episode] The Restaurant War Thailand ศึกพ่อค้าซ่าแม่ค้าแซ่บ Episode 2 | 29 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r3lfLNH6Ke4/mqdefault.jpg)
Just ran across this video and was the first time I had heard of 38120 cells. Thanks much for the excellent, understandable, quick over-view of their characteristics. I'm a poor man so will be looking out for some good deals on these batteries. They sound like an excellent candidate for emergency power back-up use and portable power supply for camping etc.
I ordered 100 Panasonic 18650 LI batteries, 2 wks ago. Today I received a text to inform me that they had been delivered when they hadn’t. Not sure what’s going on here as these guys aren’t set up for customer service. Has anyone else had a similar experience when attempting to purchase batteries from these guys? Guess I won’t be building my power wall this week. Great videos. Try a lot harder with the fulfillment side of your operation.
that beeping is like when you are in intensive care in the hospital.
Oh wait these batteries are about to die I guess you can say they are in intensive care because instead of losing blood they are loosing voltage
It made me think of an Umbrella experiment.
flatlined too.
Yes!😂 It's exactly like the heart beat monitor and the IV monitor👍
Good to see you upped your game in the cabling department. And then got to see what happens when its not enough.
Who remembers R/C car NiCd's in the 90's?
Haha the dog. 😀😀 love it. He looked like the StarWars little bears. Great video.
You are a knowledgeable man, thank you for sharing. If you wanna go international, you need to also go metric.
America is the only place on earth that use both metric and imperial.
I recently learned that the largest source in the World for the lithium used to make these cells is found
in Afghanistan. Yep, little has been said about that but know that we must be taking lots of it along with
the poppies that grow there? Good video & I hope you keep bringing it to us....'
peace
Cool, that was very educational. Thanks see you down at the shop sometime.
Amazing density, 100A non stop for 5 mins
That's mad battery abuse 😀
I just did a battery build video on these a few months ago. I think what you have there is the 8ah versions, and I used the 10ah version to make a 4S pack for ham radio. I'm also about to build a 30 or 40 amp hour version with these cells.
Anyway, great find, awesome cells.
Keep up the great work
Julian
OH8STN what kind of BMS are you using? I have 64 14ah from PSI but I have no BMS
Mrpiraterias bestech 50A bms for LiFe04
OH8STN De kc8hps Here. bryan@tinysolarshack.com
Tiny Solar Shack hi Brian
If you had a number in series and parallel I bet they would self balance pretty well. Just in series I’d use a bms on them.
It’s nice that EVcomponents has the parts but I’m not paying $33 to ship a $6 order. 😢😢😢😢😢
$13 to ship one battery, that's BS and I wouldn't pay this kind of money for new never-mind bogus cells
I cant find those connectors anywhere! $33 for shipping is insane
I HEAR yah pal!
Ship 4 on ebay for just $39.95. Pfffft! Not likely.
@Bruno Gianelli Horrible shipping costs. A $35 fee charged by UPS in addition to the shipping fee. You are better off using ebay for batteries and probably holders etc too.
Current lithium deals j35.us/Lithium-July
Going to make a vape mod with a couple of these in series.
Justin Curtright lol yeah I was thinking the same! battery life for weeks! drop these on my fatsharks and transmitter s !
Just hope the cells don't last longer than you.
Would be great as a backpack build
Stuck for small buss bars? 1/4" copper tubing works great. Flatten it in a vise, then drill your connection holes.
Chris W it would be wonderfull to have 18650 copper screws you can solder onto the batteries, plus your tip on copper pipe and any regular bolt would make a great combo.
Whoa the battery recovered!
Cables are fine 😀 I had 80A through 10awg for an hour!
The cables are not rated for that many amps. You need at least AWG 2 to keep the temp around 167°f (75°c)[or slightly lower] you ALWAYS want a wire with a higher amp threshold than what your target usage is. This will help with longevity of the wire, connectors and your targeted appliance (your end item ie fans lights etc) while also drastically reducing the chance of fire from overheating your wires.
Low voltage = high current draw = hot!
What?
Another great video. Always curious about that cell.
DUDE, Do not walk thru an airport with that battery pack.TSA would have a fit.
I do really like the screw connections on the headway cells! be nice if 18650/26650 cells came like that.
James stranger I was thinking the exact same thing
James stranger, I'm only using 18650s; I wouldn't want the bulk of screws and nuts or threaded sockets. Soldering/welding is a pain (and potentially damaging to the cell) but gives a nice package if no bads happen.
JAMES! Since the 70's i'd like to have copper bolts on them.
Go to Vruzend DIY.com to find them.
Good video but that beeping was driving me nuts
RWBHere huh ?
Nvm i know what you mean now 🤣
Internal resistance decreases as temperature increases. That explains why voltage increases as the test runs and the battery warms up. What is the IR measurement on the cells?
Remind me not to buy used batteries from you, THE ABUSE! :) Nice work man.
Next time use"4-gauge"test cables.Use a bank of"Maxwell super-caps"to keep from drawing too many amps from the batteries,make the super-caps do the work.
I agree charge caps from battery then use caps to run high power loads
4 gauge how can i use those super caps i’m trying to build a DIY solar generator and i am trying to find the best batteries for that project can you tell me how to use those super caps ?
@@juancarloshernandez1769 What do you mean by solar generator? Do you mean solar panels?
Do you folks realize this was a test? NO CAPS! Pun intended. The setup should have not had these problems.
Super caps would only be useful for a real short start up current like micro seconds because if it is a sustained current draw it will be drawing it from the battery just the same you are better off just sizing your system correctly because even if you are running any cells at 2c you are only getting up to 1/2 an hour and I assume you want a longer run time and 80 amps from 8Ah cells is at best 6 minutes if you added super capacitors they would add probably less than 1 min to that so you would be better off just buying another 4 9f those cells and have like 12 minutes for less money and the draw would be half on each cell instead of basically the same
That the Inverter shuts down at about 10.5V is because it is normaly used for Lead-Acid Batteries 1.75V per Cell.
The clostest by default would be LiFePO4 Cells with down to 2.00V per Cell and wit 3.6V nominal Voltage it would with 4 cells work even better in Car the Alternator gives out about 14.4 V.
That’s why I️ recommend 24v minimum wit lithium
+1
Inverter shuts down to avoid lead-acid battery damage by sulfation. It is designed for PbSO batteries.
Generator in a car delivers maximum 14,7V normally so 4x3,7V fits almost perfectly but from the other hand Li-Ion cells charge voltage is around 4.2V. Additionally Li-Ion requires strict temperature and voltage monitoring to prevent fire.
All above makes this kind of replacement not so easy and even dangerous.
Simply put, normal car electric installation is NOT designed for Li-Ion cells.
That dead short was insane!!
Can you explain what that is in layman's term?
Are these a good choice for a power wall/power storage application? I like the fact that these batteries can be connected via plates and screws versus solder and wire. The extra cost aside, are they a good choice? I like the extra safety aspect as well, because of the chemistry of the battery, if I'm understanding that point correctly.
No they are not... less than 8000 mAh ... low capacity, HIGH performance with those 100 ish amps. No, the 21700's will be hard to beat any way you look at it. M50's are pretty dang good.
Where can I find the large heat shrink used on larger battery packs, I’m building a pack that is using 32650 and measures 23 inches all around.
He's only partially right, ive been able to reduce my 14.7ish volt 4 x 18650 battery packs down to work with 12 volt packages using a stepdown circuit thats fairly small mounted to the battery pack.
Oklahoma is looking at bringing back the " electric chair " a couple of " power walls " and " Bob's your uncle "
NICE! Brutal test bro! Great info! Thanks for sharing!
A diode in series will drop voltage 0.7 volts. 100 amp diodes are pretty cheap on Ebay, under $20.
sounds like E.R some one on the table getting open up beep beep beep
TRMTHEweasel then the BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
she gone mate! flat lined, beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep lol
ahahahahaha
Yep
At 3:10 - Bearded Chupacabra Dragon Alert!!!
If you haven't already, try to connect those packs in parallel to spread the current load across more of them so that they won't get as hot.
I was thinking these could be used on the front end of a normal LiFePo battery pack to take the high current spikes. The Headway batteries have great current sourcing spec's.
welp just bought 8 cells to replace my aging car battery, gotta adjust the float voltage since ive seen it at 14.7v some times
I like that u keeping on Ur self experimenting with new stuff....keep going
Don't use these batteries in a cars hot engine bay. I did and it did not end well. I knew that there was a fire risk with these batteries so when I started using them I would check the heat in the engine bay and how the batteries were doing. That was in winter and all was OK. Six months latter come one hot 40 degree summer days and I had pretty much forgotten about the 38120 batteries in the engine bay, the batteries caught fire and destroyed the engine bay. Lucky some guy came with a fire extinguisher came and put it out, otherwise the whole car would have gone. BE VERY CAREFUL. They need a cool place if you want to use them for a car.
well, that was interesting - I'm wondering, how you managed the short-circuit (380A peak) ...did you do it with a high-power MOSFET or a thyristor? ...however, astonishing
Going to use this on the Super Capacitor car battery project. Now I just need a BMS circuit for these battery.
Dazdigo, hope you will post your adventure and let us know what you learn.
I'll likely make a BOM list at the end of it and write a short blog post about it.
Oh no! The Cone of Shame! :(
Helyx525 I was about to ask what was up with that 😂
poor poor pooch
RIP balls ...
Sweet new battery talk videos
I would like to know how to connect to make a 48 ah 12v battery if you would be so kind as to explain the connection to me.Thank you
How good would they be for solar storage ?? Can ya do video on that ??
Wow a heat gun running on a battery.
Excellent vid as usual ...but did anyone else think the pack with the controller looks like the bomb from "Speed" 😉
Jehugarcia Are this Lithium cell batteries better than the SPIM08hp for a DIY solar genetator i want to build? Or which one do you recommend for that application??
About the same
I am using the 15ah cells making 48 volt pack running my ebike for 2 yrs now -- great diy battery
Cheers
PATRICK MCKOWEN what kind of charger are you using.and are you using a bms..i bought 20 of them because it was all i could afford..do you know if there are any of the used ones still avail..thanks jim sorenson idaho usa
Give me Suggestions about 72 voltage
I find it best to make 18650's in four series giving 16v then use buck inverters for a constant voltage on w/e volts you need. Just it lets you draw more power out of the cells in three series even when a 12v is low much power remains just unusable. Tiny step down/up inverters really help with small devices you can get 6 packs for under 10 bucks.
MrSnapy1 i use the same...i made a 4S11P with buck converters to usb and also cig. Socket...not bad batteries were free...👍
Putting a 1500 watt load on a 1000 watt inverter to draw 80 amps from 8ah batteries, you are brutal. Hope you don't drive your car at 500 mph. LOL
take a look at the datasheet max20C(160A) peak 25C(200A) .... 80A is 'soft'discharge .... the limiter in the setup are the cables
That is the guy I watch and be a Lerner.
Those Chitty Cables could be the cause of your Voltage Drop. If there getting that hot there restive, eaa?
i love your videos man. i recently started watching but when i have my own place id like to build me a portable battery pack like one you showed in your videos it would be sweet
Thanks for showing IR of 22.2 mohms and measured capacity
Thanks for the video Jehu! Could you please include metric units while you are doing temperature measurements?
Who else is thinking he's dead Jim when he disconnected the power?
Haha!!!
Could this be used to power a bicycle converted to an E-bike? If so, this would be a great improvement to a 18650 battery power pack.
Of course it can.
How can I buy a 32 cell, 4 piece bus bars from you?
Would u be able to use a bms to control the volts to match a 12v
Helping us Petrol heads transition the Electron heads...the future.
How many would be needed to make a good 1kw solar generator? Kind of want to throw my hat in on making a decent Lithium Iron Phosphate solar generator that I can take camping. Just want something to manage basic camping needs and maybe like a Projector for the kids at night :) Thinking 1kw should do that with 2-300 watts of solar panels to recharge during the day. I just don't want to be using gas generators or buy a flippin $3500 solar generator pack that sucks! LOL
Still no advice on how many my project would take? :/
in for reply
Figure out your watt hour requirement. Projector uses X watts, want to run it for Y hours.
This video literally shows that 4 cells can output 1kw for about 5 minutes, but if your projector is closer to 50w, well you could probably get a full movie out of the 4 cells.
There is a guy on TH-cam called Greg Virgoe who is converting a Merc van into a camper and he has a video about sizing batteries to your needs and had a link to a spreadsheet in the video description to help with the calculations, as well as explaining it very well.
Thanks can you translate to Arabic language
Can I vape with this? 💨💨💨💨😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
awww the dog had the cone of shame... lol
How about using these to fast charge a Tesla? Can it provide 32amp 220/240v to Tesla mobile charger? (With what inverter?)
Make that BMS vid soon please! I'm ready with a 4s12p version of these cells, but the 12AH high cap version of these. I'm almost ready to just hook them up and top balance them once every few days manually. BMS's are just so hard to find, and they vary wildly!!!
Pick up a few different ones, low price to high price? Hell I'll buy one of your good test bms's if you dont want to waste money.
Sounds like someone coded in ICU.
Have you tried building a cell with super capacitors?
thanx for the video. would you consider making a small project? how can you do a jump starter for a car? i need it sometimes because of the weather here. can you do it with 18650 batteries?
wire 4 in series to give you 14.8 volts nominal, and than depending on your battery chemistry and car size youll need about 4-8 of those in parrellel so looking at 16-32 batteries.. connect some 4awg wire with clamps to the outputs and youre good to go
when buying the batteries youre looking for high discharge rate not high mAH, lower mAH usually means higher discharge chemistry
if the weathers really cold like -30c you may need more sets added in parrallel, leaving the cables connnected to the battery for 15 minutes before starting can let them charge the car battery slightly and the lead battery will also assist in starting
Why does your dog have the cone of shame? 😒
Hi Jehue!
Thank you for the opportunity and sound Advice !
Keep up the good work !
Bought. 40 x 4 Headways !
For an aluminum bass boat and electric mud motor build in progress !
Got a 48 volt dc shunt 3.8 horse motor!
Thinking of putting neodymium bars stacked in a ring around motor !
I saw utuber vid called Stargate motor!
Any experience with this idea?
I'm wondering how they would do in the cold weather. How much voltage drop if any sitting for a week or so in the cold. Great video.
And the thing with Lithium batteries is also that you can't charge them below freezing temperatures.
Extreme temperatures are a issue for all batteries at very low temperatures.
Generally, there's elevated internal resistance that will cause some warming effect because of efficiency loss during use. At -20°C (-4°F) most batteries are at about 50 percent performance level.
Although NiCd can go down to -40°C (-40°F), the permissible discharge is only 0.2C (5-hour rate). Specialty Li-ion can operate to a temperature of -40°C but only at a reduced discharge rate; charging at this temperature is out of the question... Though, laboratories have managed to get them to charge with extremely low current but it would take days to charge at that rate.
While lead acid is a bit more forgiving and you can charge them down to -20°C. There is the danger of the electrolyte freezing, which can crack the enclosure. Add, lead acid freezes quicker with a low charge when the specific gravity is more like water than when fully charged. Along with the general need to keep a lead acid charged at all times and over 50% of its rated capacity.
For lithium, you'd typically see a drop in usable capacity as Lithium works optimally at 25°C. So at 0°C it'll drop to near 80% and at -20°C it'll drop to nearly 60%...
But there are specialty enclosures for lithium that allow for temperature regulation to prevent both getting too cold and too hot...
While coupling chemical batteries with solid state batteries is another option or only use solid state batteries if you need to deal with really cold temperatures regularly...
ervantussen Thank you for the break down. really good information . Makes a lot of sense.
My electric bike struggles when it is less then +15C outside and I stop for 5 min, to have full effect on my 350W e-bike the battery must be kept warm 20-25C maybe (here it is never that hot)... At -10C it gets a little worse.
The battery literally looks like a bomb😂
Just a suggestion. If you test a set of cells using an inverter you should eliminate everything except the cells as a potential problem.
If it were me I would have used something like 2 AWG or even 0 AWG just to make sure that the cables were not getting hot and wouldn't cause voltage drop.
but because you undersized the cable/s (I know that you used the cables that came with the inverter. Never trust cables that come with cheap inverters) the voltage sag and the other problem COULD have been partly attributed to undersized cables.
I know that GBS batteries only like 60 amp draw with the 20Ah blocks. They are a lot cheaper then those. I see if I buy many I can pick them up around 10 bucks a pop. 20 bucks you can get 20AH GBS and they will do 3C. However I might be missing something.
2:34 dat look like a bomb XD
Hi. Wonderful job by you. I have SAFT Li ion battery cells 74AH 3.7V (4V max) cylinderical cells 14 nos.. Can I use this for my electrical scooter.
Ive got the sameish inverter. (240v AU plug version but same case so same factory prob etc) and the cables it came with were rubbish. Cheap ass copper and crap insulation aswell as bad crimps. I replaced them with 6 B&S cable.
You could use lithium ion 18650 batteries to replace lead acid if you have some sort of regulator, but that has it’s disadvantages, like you can only use like 10 to 20 amps and after that you would overload it
Man i can make life time playing boombox from it
im using 8 of these as a jump box around my place
Great information, although it seemed a little iffy getting the info considering how skinny those wires were. Any time a wire is noticeably warm it's too small, and hot wires are nuts, even if they do have silicone insulation. Try taking measurements of the Voltage dropped end-to-end on those wires sometime -- I'm pretty sure you'll be surprised at the magnitude of the Voltage drop.
Keep in mind, a "12 volt" lead acid battery is actually closer to 14 volts. 13.5-13.8v.
And with the battery at full charge, alternator running and the regulator a bit loose, 15V was not uncommon in cars. I treat "12V" as 13.8V and anything under 15V as nominal. With each cell set to minimum voltage of 3.2V, and maximum 3.75, 4SnP "12V" gives 13.8 to 15V, at about 50% of rated mAh per cell so for 2000mAh. that makes the battery n*1000mAh, and supports long term discharge at 6n*1000mA without too much wear and tear on battery life.
great video. have you done anymore with the full river cells? when I saw them about a year ago. I figured I knew what that river was full of. if you say they are OK. I believe you. I just don't know witch way to go! I'm working on a large DC generator. to charge my 24v bank. I could make about 560 amps at 12 v or 1/2 that at 24v. about 750 watts per HP. and the alternators are about 60% efficient. so it will take quite a bit of power to spin them at about 1500-2000 rpm. here on the east coast there can be a week or two that are sunless! I need to buy a few per month. every month. I can't seem to save enough funds to save my life! I do not want to finance. I'm disabled and living on a very fixed income. and in a catch 22 situation. if I could just get moved. I'd have the funds. if I move I'll be without power basically. I have 200ah batt bank. no solar panels. and a couple generators. I don't know if I could make it a month or two. with very little power. maybe I can get more batteries. and make it and use my inverter charger to charge the bank! anyway. sorry for rambling. its cold here and I guess cabin fever is a thing! good day and thanks!
Love the videos, very informative. I'm wanting to do a build with these cells but im stuck on if i can run a bms. I'm wanting these to replace one of my batteries in my car. The problem with all the bms that ive found is the limited output amperage. With each doing up to 160amp per for 8 thats 1280amp total output. Is there a bms that can even handle half of that current? Is it remotely safe to run these without the bms? Im sure they wouldnt overcharge do to high volt since these are fine up to 3.65v charging and they wouldnt even see more 2.35 give or take. Any advice that i could get would be awesome.
Hallo. Please, suggest me any DIY !!_optimal__!! solution to make >=15000mah and 19.5v~20v powerbank for my laptop with charging BMS and chargin in one box? I cant find solution in this way. There many solutions to make USB charging, but cant find DIY external notebook powerbank. Can make a video? Thank you.
I bought 6. Not sure what Im going to do with them but that could be 32v 3000w. and 16ah. or 72v and 6000w 8ah. for $200. Cant wait for the next vid.
Turn it to a mini portable solar system
Those batteries are cool looking
Jehu hi can you explain in your next video what to look for buying battery I am from India I searched internet I found this but I don't this work or not
(18650 Battery 2500 mAh 3.7 volt Rechargeable Lithium Cell Li ion battery 2.5 aH)
If you start a car with this batteries, the batteries would charge?
I presume as soon as the headways got up to temperature, they started to sag less and handle the power better? Hence the voltage was quickly rising even under load?
Could you make a video on a solar generator that would sustain a regular size fridge and a few fans. I live in Puerto Rico , I do have a electricity but want to be prepared if another hurricane comes by.
Good one... as usual.
2:30 don't go waving that in public.
I am watching and hoping you would do a posting for a solar or wind setup running a house with these batteries, how much cells and for how long?
Are they perfect for a power wall off the grid. Completely off the grid. Running AC, Water, Heater Stove, Refrigerator, and the rest off the house lighting?
I would take that in public with that some cop looking for a raise is gonna take your ass down
I have 2-64ah packs in my car audio set up wired with 2 agm batteries. So when I park and head in for the night the voltage drops to 13.4-13.7 throughout the night. When I start up in the morning my 280 amp alternator send 80ish amps @ idle to charge the pack to 14.2 in around 20 sec it's ready for the daily abuse I put them through. They work extremely well even used. And if I hold the engine at high idle and lean on the amplifiers/subs ect pulling 400-500 amps I don't see anything under 13 volts. The sag does suck but it's still WAAY better than hundreds of pound worth of leadacid. Paid $8 each n plan on building 2 more 80ah packs
I'll add, it's interesting how well the perform when they're around 95 deg vs colder say high 60s. There's almost no sag when they're warm. Cheap lifepo4 that puts out lol