How to TEST 18650 cells (DIY Powerwalls)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
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![Cutting open an LG 18650 battery for science [ amateur video warning ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/per8ybI55bI/mqdefault.jpg)
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First, I think it's great that you're doing this empirical testing. However, when it comes to temperature, you're doing it wrong. The datasheet is not claiming that the battery temperature will stay under the max temperature under all load and ambient temperatures. It's telling you that you are damaging the battery when you let it exceed that temperature. It is your responsibility to either cool the battery or else stop drawing so much current.
It is true that good quality batteries will have low internal resistance and generate less heat at the same power output as worse quality batteries, so there is some correlation between good quality batteries and those that stay cooler, but that's incidental, not a claim of the datasheet. Heat is generally the enemy of batteries, from lead-acid to nickel metal-hydride to lithium. Keep your batteries cool! Good luck!
True. Also measuring with that thermal camera is not reliable. It doesn't show very accurately correct temperature
@@kernowconnection o
I know this is old & excuse the revival, but I was about to comment the same thing. I think the way he is testing the batteries would be ok if he was able to include the +/- with proper statistical deviation process. The thermal though is what saying and the camera doesn't really hold up. It is good to use though for safety if that's all you have, but I wouldn't use the data from it.
What he is doing seems to be ok for what he is trying to accomplish. It certainly does not validate or replace the spec sheet data, but it gives a good enough look into what the batteries are capable of and if they are good quality. (SR ChemE Student)
Also the current and the potential could be different at different temperatures, but that is fairly common knowledge and I am sure he has looked at that.
Using just one discharge I believe isnt enough. I would like to see the data after a couple discharge and cool trials.
True, that's what the datasheet is trying to tell.
Temperature rise depends of your ambient conditions. The temperature spec gives you operational limits you should operate the cells. If the cell surface temperature rises over the spec (for example in ambient 40’C conditions), YOU MUST ACTIVELY COOL THE CELLS during charge/discharge and/or LIMIT the current/loading! 8A discharging is allowed up to the surface temperature limit - it doesn’t mean that the cell would be out of spec.
And where’s all comparison of SAFETY and lifetime related? SAFETY CERTIFICATIONS (UL, CE, TÜV, ...), safety devices integrated in the cell and are they really working and preventing fire. Lifecycle cost per Wh is not the same if a cell lasts 50 cycles compared to a cell lasting 2000 cycles, especially in powerwall application.
Additionally, the “operating temperature” specification is not how hot a cell surface should get when discharged or while charging. It is a safety parameter that indicates you should, as previously said, not charge or discharge a cell if it’s surface temperature is beyond the given range without hearing or cooling the cell.
The second data sheet you read with test currents and surface temperatures is accurate and is not a “deviation” or a duplicate and inaccurate specification.
No safety tests on the OEM cells, but recommending them for a group buy seems risky.
Do they vent correctly under short circuit conditions, or just explode?
Indeed, for packs of batteries used in tools at least, there is a thermistor to measure the temperature so they can presumably cut the power if they get too hot. I'm guessing lower draw situations just limit the current so it's practically impossible to overheat.
That the specs say *-20* to 75 celsius does give it away a bit, that it doesn't mean it's the temperature it will reach in normal operation, but the conditions it can operate under.
Batteries at 100 celsius sound rather scary, especially with Lithium Ion.
Jehu, thanks for still wearing the "Power 2 Puerto Rico" shirt. It means a lot for us in the island!!!
Thank you you have cleared up a lot of my questions about safe loads on charging Batterys.
I do safety testing (short circuit and overcharging) on commercial 18650 and 21700 all day. I would never use any of those cheap cells. I’ve seen too many of them vent (at best), explode (at worst). I would never let them get above 70C on a charge or discharge. Even using good ones, all it takes is one mistake and your house will be gone.
I see you put a lot of hard work and effort into you videos. top notch much respect.
You've gone MAD with power Sir.
UP with the struggle of the IR ( Internal Resistance ).
Just be careful they haven't given you the best ones first then diminish the quality later on.
*Yes this is what chonks normally do*
If battery are OEM It could happen, But when the battery is produce at once, it can't be.
Bait n switch
Crazy Clown that's very racist you just said. Most of stuff you have in your life is all made is China, man. Carefully chose what you pay for. Good stuff never cheap.
Fonz Ren Sony is Japanese and Samsung is Korean, not Chinese,
Great video and very useful info! Thanks. Keep the great work
One of the ways I identify or classify a battery to be on the better side is to weigh them. Manufacturers usually decrease the raw materials making them lighter. With the same materials used like both have metal cover and same "mah" capacity, you can now compare them.
Jehu is now my Favorite 18650/Battery/Power TH-camr. No other comes next.
What’s your recommended capacity tester? I didn’t notice a brand/model when you showed your discharge tester.
You should never let cells reach those high temperatures. So you have to use a cooling system. The closer to 25C the better. The problem is that those measures are for a single cell in free air. But imagine what happen if you pack many of those together...
The problem is that using cells at high temperature generates some internal side chemical reactions (unwanted) that destroy them progressively. So the capacity will drop rapidly over time and may even drop sharply if the electrodes end up being plated / covered by side reaction byproducts blocking normal reactions.
Unfortunately evaluating the rate of those reactions is hard to test without very high precision equipment.
lovin' this vid. Listening and will continue again and again. Love the learning here
Milliamp spec, temperatures spec, and short term test of a battery does determine a good battery. It's the quality and long term use determine a good battery
Thank you. I am looking to make some e-bike batteries and other projects. Aside from the oe brand of 18650 batteries do you have recommendations as to type and brands of other materials, gauges of lead wires, nickel strips, fish board etc.
Just a newbie with the interest with powerwall. really great stuff sir..
Meeeee Toooooooo.
Be careful, young one. Treat a box of batteries as you would a canister of gasoline - both can burn your house down with the same ferocity.
Regarding the temps you measured, you need to account for the room temperature and calculate temperature RISE above ambient. Verify what the spec says the ambient temp should be, how much airflow is allowed, and compare to your results.
Eres un crack Jehu !!!! Saludos ...Thanks,...
Good. I’m hoping to start doing up my own “emergency suitcase batteries” within the next 18 months, and the same for “monstrous bike batteries.”
I liked that inception stuff you did with the camera and computer screen. At first I thought the video quality had just dropped markedly.
Awesome tests. thanks
Thanks for sharing this info! Great content
Great video, but I want to note the operating temperature is based on your environment.
You are not supposed to allow them to go above 60C not that the cell can't go above that.
So in your case you should add more cooling and not allow the cell to go above that temperature.
Sorry to say, I ain't expert on battery, but I think the temperature 10:33 is the "recommended" temperature for the battery to work on, just in case if you expecting to get more energy. i.e. to get the best performance from the battery, Please actively maintain the batteries' temperature between -20°C to 75°C max, recommended to actively (fan) keep battery below 60°C during discharging. Please correct me if there is anything that doesn't make sense to you. Also, you should have test compare their charging cycle limit and degradation rate as well.
Re-Volt looks good, Jehu. So you use the Powerlab6Touch for individual testing, but what were those 4-cell testing units (other than the LiitoKala Engineer Lii500)?
Wish I could get in on this group buy, but the property tax people got to me first.
For someone without this sophisticated set up...if you have a cell that is high capacity like 3000 mah..2 things you can do right off the bat...weigh them first..they should come in a about 45 grams..if they come in at 35 grams, alarm bells should begin to ring...next is to measure resistance...if the cell is suppose to have 30 moh and it comes in at 60 then alarm bell no.2 should start ringing...next test capacity.
I just ordered a pack of "6000Mah" 3.7v (Garberiel brand) and with the help of your videos, I think I might be able to accomplish my goal of doing a 12-14v system for my camper set up on solar via MPPT. do you have any advice or recommendations? (batteries come in today)
Well done, interesting that well known Manufacturers are not necessarily the best. I have bought a small number from a UK distributor and so far they Check out OK on capacity after a few cycles through the Charge / Discharge equipment I'm using. Sinowatt 34MP 3350mAh 18650
I need a couple 4.2 volt 18650 batteries for my laser pointer. I liked that Re-volt brand.
Try Zanflare C4 charger, specifications
- Input: AC 100 - 240V, 50 / 60Hz, 0.6A max, DC 12V, 1.5A
- Output: USB 5V 2A
- Charge current: rechargeable Li-ion batteries 4.2V, 300mA / 500mA / 700mA / 1000mA, rechargeable Ni-MH batteries 1.48V, 300mA / 500mA / 700mA / 1000mA
- Discharge current: 300mA, 500mA
Hopefully you can ship to the UK. You just have to be careful they dont do the old bait and switch. Send you a few good ones to 'prove' they are good quality, and then sell the lower quality ones once you buy loads.
Jehu, have you checked with Re-Volt yet to make sure they =don't= use the bad Ni-Rich NCM cathodes in their batteries, or have you torn one down?
I just discovered this video. Did you end up getting the OEM battery? Where can I get it? I am very interested. Thanks
With regard to the physical relationship between the internal resistance, the emitted temperature and the produced current, Re-Volt cells have an internal resistance of 40 mOhm and not 25.
Excellent informative video.
Only missing longevity, but you actually need to have them longer and actually use them, so I guess your doing that now and I hope it's a good life span. Dod is another thing.
I really appreciate your videos.
Hello with all my respect. I just watched the video, but I'm subscribed. I'm going to build some kind of emergency power system because of the world-wide outbreaks and disasters. But now my budget is not suitable. and I will definitely shoot and tag the thank you video from my hobby channel, although there is not much content. best regards
This is a good guy......keep it up...
Would you want to test dendrite buildup with multiple cycles? I understand that is a problem that can be exasperated by the manufacturing process I think. I only am going off theory and a NOVA show on batteries and I have not done any real world testing.
Awesome vid
Seems to me of the few batteries you tested, the Samsung INR18650-35E seems to be the winner.
You can't say the OEM batteries are the winner price for performance, because without a brand name / company, there is no way we could buy them, so they are automatcially crossed off the list as mystery battery that can not be sourced.
fpv.air-war.org
love your scottish west highland terrior , lovely :) but youve frazzled my nogin, i would like to build a bigger capacity 36v battery for my ebike. its 10a 36v at mo, 10s 4p but its just not enough range. ive been harvesting cells from old laptops but most have very little capacity can you sugest cheap decent cells?
One question: when i take bat-packs apart, they plastic around the 18650s often has glue on it or gets destroyed, how do you prevent it? and more important, how do you get the spot-welded ends of the batterys clean and so that they dont oxidise?
Very interesting. Do you have the link for the OEM batteries? I'm based in Hong Kong
This really helped
Felicidades buen video amigo tienes nuevo subscriptor aquí 😁
Great info!
Eres una maquina!! lastima que no hagas algún vídeo en Español. Es complicado seguirte sin hablar ingles, pero gracias desde España por tu aportación.
PCB mount XT-90s are not widely available. There are some on Ali Express but thats it.
Old video I know, but do you offer a 14s pcb? I am currently building a power wall for a little project and have decided that 48v system would be the best for my use. so I am looking for something more advanced than just making 13-14 200p cells with a couple bms's in paralleled.
Jehu, If you have a moment I would like to know what you would recommend. I'm looking for 3kma 18650 cells with a min 15 a continuous discharge capability to use in power hungry tool battery packs. The VTC6 or the samsung 30Q are my obvious choices. My problem is finding a source which sells original or equivalents which hold up to specs. I have been searching through Ali express, but I just don't know of any dependable sellers. I read the reviews which often are glowing based upon superficial sentiments just to find a few who show empirical testing which show they are counterfeit and fail to meet both capacity and discharge rate. With your vast experience, can you recommend a quality seller at a reasonable price?
About the temperatures. Aren't those at a certain ambient temperature? Probably specced at room temperature of 20 or 21°c. So a few degrees above that could increase temperature especially at higher loads.
Well done hermano.
Quick and dirty - weigh the damn things. Fakes are almost invariably light. Testing is far better obviously but weighing them will catch a lot of crap before you get involved in testing. If you're running a powerwall the IR is often secondary as typical load is usually fairly low per cell. Pulling 10 amps per cell will discharge it in a few minutes. A powerwall that goes flat in 20 minutes isn't much use. It goes without saying don't buy anything with fire in the title......
extra cement will make you lift the battery happily.
I have a trust fire charger ;)
@@melgibson6331 - I have actually seen some anecdotal evidence that non counterfeit trustfires are legit. Not highest quality, but not trash either.
I would Check Every ONE anyway if I decide to Build a Power Wall...for Now I'm just Looking for Replacements to My UltraFire 14500 & 18650's for My Flashlights. Any that You would recommend ? I need 10> 14500 and 12. 18650's . Thanks ! I do have a Good LiPO charger(small VENOM Pro) to test Mine with(My 7 year old UltraFire) they have been doing Good, but don't last as long now.
I always use this quick and dirty test, until I received a fake powerbank. The cell felt heavy as usual. Once dissected, it filled with sands. Those genius rip-offs...
Love the tee shirt!
this is very impressive bro
jehugarcia, do you know where the best place to purchase two (2) ICR18650-32A batteries? I’ve been looking everywhere and most places I find have a minimum order of at least 100. I only need two of them. 😅
Are these scooter pack batteries still available under your listing, best buy on batteries today. Was today 2 years ago?
Can you specify what systems you use to test these batteries? Is it possible to make a very large scale tester?
hi can you let me know where to get the OEM battery from i am in UK thankyou
You should learn about AC-IR for LiB batterys and look into the cole cole graphs.
With the group buy, will you ship to other countries e.g Australia 🇦🇺
Yes, I think it’s possible
@@jehugarcia if it possible then do it init; if you don't take an action we will lose interest and we will buy from somewhere else
Get panasonic PFs from NKON. Better value and good seller out of Europe. Just built an ebike pack with them and they tested great.
I'm in Perth so I know how hard it is to get bulk quality cells for a decent price in oz.
CanonFirefly I’m in Perth too bro I just started looking for a kick ass setup for my bus
Any advise where/how/who to buy a bulk lot of decent 18650's
Laptop battery pack can fix bad cells by pumping - into the +, if it has to. By making a laptop pcb board, you may be able to fix individual cells, later inserting into other devices, it still works.
Nice info thanks
Good hartke bass amplifar, i was had the same.
I found some 18650 cells on 18650batterystore and the cells that are available are Samsung 25R 18650 2500mAh 20A Battery. Would these be ok to build a 12v 10AH battery pack for an icy breeze that draws 4amps? I know it says 20A but I’ve seen the 30A 20S Samsung cells all sold out so I’m wondering if these would be strong enough to power the icy breeze or a power wheels truck? Are they high drain type that will work for those types of applications?
Exactly when i was searching the time line for actual test it said "God when is this guy going to show us the actual test".
have you set up the import company? if not, I could do it. I have an import company. Normally I deal with larger batteries like 9v and 12v (APC batteries for back ups), but could probably bring this in for you. How many do you think you will need?
just ordered a batch of LG mj1s and im hoping theyre the real thing. cant tell from ads.
How can i test my Cells at home? I dont have those techniques that you have for testing. I use 2 Sony Konion VTC5A for my E-cigarette.
I have only a charger that shows Voltage, MAH etc. What do i need to pay attention for? The charger is a Golisi S2
jehu the only thing that is now also popping out is that this Chinese manufacturers are using low end materials for manufacturing the cells that give extremely good results on few iteration but suffer a huge degradation upon more cycles. please do if possible like a 100 cycle for 10 cells and see then the results.
Have you come across an ISR18650 cell? they seem to have been used in cao mm ebay ebike batteries. know anything about those?
can you guide me about Internal resistance of 18650, low is good for laptop battery or +60 is good?
and with is maximum and minimum resistance of 18650 cells for used cells in a battery
The last OEM cells you tested work out to about $275/KHW at rated capacity.
newbie here...just want to know with the 18650 batts how is it wired? i mean how many parallel and series? i mean from other youtube videos it says no more than 2 parallel and up to 48v series so im a bit confused bec i see a module here has so many parallel and many series. im really a newbie but willing to learn and will appreciate any clarification ty in advance.
subtitles in spanish your work is very interesting thanks from peru
Great Info 👍🏽🇵🇷
You are good man and I think you should charge them and keep them in good wentilated spare room ...for your health Mate
Thank you sir
Hi, Can you mention the equipment you are using for testing the cells? So that we do not have to google a lot and just get the required tools and start testing? Please!
Are the generic cells as good to just popping in the modulars without testing
Where do you get your battery tester/ charger?
Ok how do I get info on buying the OEM batteries?
Please suggest best cell for Dell Inspiron 15 3537 model
Question cell capacity Is the amp-hour rating, for example, 2600 mAh. Is this capacity based on the voltage range of 4.2 V down to 3.0 V. I assume there is no capacity left in the cell below 3.0V? Please advise
Can you do a good short video (maybe 5-10 minutes long or so ) explaining the typical 18650 battery descriptions please. Because I need to know what mR (internal resistance) a supposedly brand new 3000mAh Samsung 18650 30Q 15A button top unprotected battery should read on my Zanflare C4 charger tester. All my four supposedly brand new Q30s display 2.50mR - 3.50 mR on the Zanflare C4. Should all good condition 18650 batteries have about 1.00mR ? I can understand the 10A versus the 30A discharge ability and the 3000mAh versus the 2000mAh storage capacity and the 3.00v versus the 4.20v volts concept but don't know what the proper mR (internal resistance) should typically be at. Thanks so much
love the shirt
Great video, like others, have said you got cherry-picked cells. I have received so many fake cells, I cut them open and find tiny little cells inside packed in some powder. I have bought Panasonics that are a rerap knock-off, Samsung that are rerap. Really hard to get quality cells right now with covid.
18650 battery for my first encounters with these batteries is during vaping time and my fav is Sony VTC 5 18650
Many times people were given samples of the better quality items and were sold less quality items afterwards. Did you ever check a very good and well known OEM brand Sanyo???
Which one cell is best to buy according to you please named it????
Thanks brother
so witch brand is the best?
I just got a LiitoKala charger and some LG 2200Mah modem cells. The modem cells tested great. I just got a couple of dozen NEW INR18650-35E 3500mAh 13A for DIY phone chargers. The cells only are testing out at about 1500 mAh discharging at 1000mA. The tests are cutting off at about 3.5 to 3.8V when the charger says cutoff is 2.8 V at 500mA. Are these fake cells?
ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR VIDS MY BROTHER ! . I HAVE A QUESTION ON EBAY I CAN GET 4 " Panasonic NCR18650B 3.7V 3400mah Battery " FOR TOTAL FOR 22.49 THEY ARE BUTTON TOP CELLS FOR LASERS AND NIGHT VISION . THEY ARE MADE IN JAPAN WHICH SOME SAY ARE BETTER THAN MOST IN CHINA ESPECIALLY THOSE CRAZY OFF BRANDS ,DO YOU THINK THESE ARE A PRETTY GOOD DEAL AND GOOD PERFORMANCE ? THEY ARE ALSO PROTECTED CELLS AND COME WITH A STORAGE CASE ! THE NIGHT VISION DOESNT DRAW VERY HIGH AMPS ALSO !
So which 18650 is worth buying..for a few flashlites?
What kind of thermal camera do you use?
Jehu, how about a project on building single solar panel solar generators, for example, a 300watt panel with a lithuim cell pack , a charge controller and an inverter, all in a self contained unit or two, maybe three smaller panels 100watt panels in a folding configuration, or three 300watt panels that interlock and inter connect as needed? Saludos from PUR.
y cual bateria recomiendas aca en chile estoy cachando que son todas fake
Sir .. hi... Where could i buy those 3200 mah 18650 battery....?? Watching your vid.. from philippines