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Buying a disposate is not good for the environment since 1) there is no proof of the trees they plant 2) the carbon footprint of that metal plate is far bigger. Good old greenwashing
Feathered serpent God. So a dragon? Kukulkan is huge and reminds me of Asian dragons. But of course I doubt Mayans and Aztecs used the word dragon. So it's just a matter of how Europeans decided to translate it.
My favorite Chekov's gun moment: During the scene at Riri's dorm room, when she was threatening Shuri and Okoye, Riri was holding her heater then Shuri goes "so good luck defending yourself with your heater when that man with wings come to get you", it turns out the heater was his weakness
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in any easter egg videos - at the end when Shuri and Riri are back in the lab saying their goodbyes, there is a brief glimpse of Shuri's feet and she's wearing the same "old school" sandals she mocked T'Challa for wearing in the first film. I thought that was a sweet touch to honor both her brother and tradition.
Shuri's arc is awesome. I really liked how her character evolved from enthusiastic tech genius, to grieving younger sister, revenge berserker and her finding peace at the end. That the kind of character development you don't often see
I agree. I also hope they take her arc to the more shaman spiritual black panther. IRL her faith her been Central to her life and career (and come back for this movie after injury).
It was like the team lost their HOF franchise superstar and tried to replace him with the 12th man or woman on the bench. Man, her gut and spinal core were speared right through, but she was just fine because how? lmao.
@@yongdol73 She wore an advanced nanotech suit and strengthened herself with heart-shaped herb. Also that was foretold earlier in the movie, when the Talocan soldiers was pierced by Okoye's spear through their stomaches but they could still stood up later. Tony had his gut pierced a bigger hole on Titan and got no strengthening but only his suit, and he even stayed malnutrition for weeks before he got rescued. Also, we didn't see Shuri's back, how can you be sure that her spinal core got hit?
He was a bully in the first movie, in this one he became my favorite. His voice of reason was shown fully. Now he's a three dimensional character. One who Can and will use violence to accrue his means. But one smart enough to not always use it. His acting was spot on. The actor did an AMAZING job. I'll have to see what else he's been in after this role!
When Angela Bassett spoke about how she lost everything as the queen when she was in her throne room was to me the most powerful scene I might have seen in any marvel movie. P.S. I definitely believe this is the first time that anybody said I'm a mutant just flat out when Namor said it.
Because she is a powerful actor and she got the lines she needed for the impact Imagine what could come out of viola Davis in Suicide squad movies if they let it.?
A nice, but easy to miss Easter egg is that Nakia’s house on the beach is numbered 1804. This is a nod to Haiti’s Declaration of Independence on January 1st, 1804 at the end of the revolutionary war. The number 1804 comes up often in Haitian artistic works. Toussaint Louverture, however, died in prison in France in April 1803 and never saw his dream fulfilled. This remains a great homage to a remarkable, often forgotten man. I loved this movie and it’s small connections to my homeland. Wakanda forever!
Also of note, the title card for Marvel Studios played wind noises, and Ramunda says "I can hear him in the wind" so the sound is also a tribute to Chadwick in itself
I’m starting to wonder if Val isn’t going to be so much of a bad guy but just a new slightly darker Fury. Unless she’s a female variant of Kang, I’ve always thought that because VAL upside down looks like TVA
T'Challa's kid appeared earlier in the film when Queen Ramonda first visited Nakia in Haiti. He was the kid who asked Queen Ramonda, "Are you the new headmistress?"
Another note. When Attuma and Namora attack Okoye Shuri and Riri, near the end when Namora chucks a water bomb at Attuma, he uses his hip to bounce it into Okoye. Probably because of their sport they play back in Talokan where they use their hip to bounce a ball through a hole
Oh great catch! That is a purely Mayan historical thing. It is assumed they played that game to settle conflicts too so it makes sense Attuma would use those game moves.
Her acting kinda resembles Charlize Theron in Snow White and Huntsman. Even one of their lines sound similar and I was like huh, they prob got inspo from it
agreed diaspora honored; Killmonger sought to unite and protect them loved the original and appropriate languages. Americans in general are so lazy not learning multiple languages and demanding people "Speak English!"
I thought it was great for Ryan to dabble in suspense and horror by creating tension underwater. Spoiler alert (but I’m sure we all saw the movie right?)When the girl turned around and only the cable was left of her dive partner, I was like 😵and they weren’t found tied up or anything, they were never seen again Sad they had to kill my girl Lake Bell😢 Also very non-Disney for people to get killed in this movie (though there was no blood or gore), it raises the stakes and sets the tone and seriousness of the movie. These Takonians aren’t taking prisoners, they are killing people
You know one thing I haven't really seen ackowledged. Is at best Shuri was always meant to be somewhat of a side character, meaning that is all Leticia Wright had signed up for and look at what she achieved. Incredible acting. I felt what she felt. Her grief. Her anger. Her pain. Her fight to return to peace. I think she has done such and incredible job. Much respect.
I think I like Wakanda Forever more than the first one. I'm glad Namor wasn't killed at the end because I REALLY want to see more of him and the Talokan.
I also pondered why the Talokanil were overpowering the Wakandans, and I came to this conclusion… To be a Talokanil they ALL consumed their variation of the “Heart-Shaped Herb”, but only the Black Panther does this in Wakanda… So the Wakandans were technically fighting a completely super-powered nation with basically excellent training & weapons… What if ALL Wakandans consumed a version of the “Heart-Shaped Herb” (since Shuri now has the ability to synthesize it) 🤯
@Trevor K I do recall that storyline about Wakanda's Heart-Shaped Herb... Based on what she did in Wakanda Forever, Shuri should be able to create something a non-royal Wakandan could take to enhance themselves.
Made me laugh how they walk into wakanda and kick the crap out of them but, it took a sustained barrage from Thanos' army to breach their defences. Perhaps thanos should have recruited the sub mariner.
This movie really stepped up and rose to the occasion. It’s not a perfect movie, or a masterpiece, but it’s everything it needs to be. Well written, outstanding performances, world-building, emotional, a tribute to Chadwick, and a return to the type of Marvel movie that made the MCU a juggernaut. I loved it.
I’m kind of surprised that no one I follow on TH-cam has mentioned Ramonda and Shuri’s hair. In the opening scene, they both have long hair. In the funeral scene their heads are mostly covered. When they meet Namor, they both have short hair. Many cultures have a tradition of cutting their hair or shaving their head when a family member dies and they enter a formal period of mourning. I wonder if that’s what they were implying here.
@@AmyKaylasVegas someone mentioned that shuri was taking aspects of both t’challa and n’jadaka’s panthers; she took his braided back hairstyle bc she was originally seeking vengeance before going the noble route like her big brother and sparing the other side
At one point during the movie, I really thought Okoye was going to be Black Panther. Especially when the Queen asked her to step down as general, I thought “well, now she’s free to serve Wakanda in another way.” But I can live with Shuri being the next one. And that Michael B Jordan cameo was amazing. Such a scene stealer.
@@marym1081 well then they could have at least set her up somewhat to be black panther. At this point she's just a super powered nerd. It would fit tchallas baby momma a lot more
Riri was in the movie to represent a part of Shuri that was fading away as she clung onto her grief from her brother’s death. Queen Ramonda dying to protect her is like her saving the part of her daughter that needs to survive. While not explicitly stated, that’s what I understand with Riri’s significance. It is likely she also benefited from the outreach program her brother left her in charge of. This is all fitting once her arc is nearly complete that she greets her the way her she once did with her brother.
it's also nice that a young black girl could get into college and be smarter than stark, and have a lot easier time building a power suit. and she did all that by just having the writers of the movie make it so, without having to earn it like start did. so brave.
Man this movie is so emotional I lost my mom and brother last year and I took time to reflect all the anger and other things that were going on This movie was Awesome
This is an awesome movie. It's even more impressive when you think about how it had to be re-written after Chadwick died. I guess Bucky and Ayo aren't an item. I support M'Baku being king. He has helped them out so many times.
When Shuri goes to Haiti at the end of the movie and goes to see Nakia, the house number of the house that Nakia comes out of is 1804. 1804 is the year of Haitian independence. I like that Ryan Coogler not only put that in there but really showed the beauty of my country
Now I want to see a Nakia series with her traveling around the world speaking so many languages doing disguises while raising her son ,and training him to be a fighter.
The gates to Wakanda opened in response to a sonic key. You could hear the key and then see the sonic reverberations on the gate just before it opened. I think Namor used the siren song on the gate to mimic its sonic key and sneak into Wakanda.
i feel like since before now they assumed there was no more vibranium in the world it might be somehow linked to that. like since he was covered in vibranium he was able to get through the shield or something
Suri had the Dr. Strange arc, and it makes so much sense for a "Science over Beliefs" person. This movie was AWESOME! Just left the theater and came right here, I avoided the spoiler for weeks!
The water weakness was always a part of the Namor canon. I remember reading a comic over 30 years ago where he was tricked into jumping into a pool to refresh his strength, and it was a trap pool filled with alcohol, and it dried his skin even faster... And he was then defeated by the enemy and put in chains.
This also happened in an animated series way back in the day. After diving in he says,”This is not water! It’s alcohol!” I remember this as my cousin and I used to watch the cartoon and as we approached drinking age, whenever we drank together, one of us would say,”This is not water! It’s alcohol!”😂
@@kongwubba81 I questioned that, too, and my guess is that she was underwater for a while carrying Riri back up. She used all of her strength to get Riri on stable ground, and by that point she collapsed from exhaustion. One final heroic move before going out. Just my guess though.
I think this movie is incredible. Firstly, it's just a beautiful piece of cinema. Not only are the visuals absolutely stunning with wide open shots of Wakanda but Namors utopia as well. The sound design was incredible as well. They chose the perfect scenes for it to be silent and when there was music, it fit the atmosphere. They allowed so much world building. All the characters felt needed and important. Very distinct and all needed for the plot to progress. The actors and actresses absolutely MURDERED thier roles. Everyone was so good in this movie, not a single person felt flat. Shuris character development was incredible. Seeing her refuse to pass on from her brothers death and burying herself in her work. Not burning his cloth to acknowledge his passing. The symbolism in this movie is amazing. Alot of the issues and exact things that are happening to Shuri and the Wakandans happened to Namor. The difference and similarities in actions was awesome to see and compare. The interpretation of Namor and his people were fantastic. I love so many of the scenes they were in. The opening shot of all of them being shown like a horror movie. Showing the peaceful civilization and how depsite their horrid history, how they are just a normal species. Namor not just being a villain to be a villain and him being justified in his actions and it leaving the plot open for the governments wanting to follow up on all tje stuff "Wakanda" did. Namor is amazing. His fighting style, his interpretation, his accent, everything. Ironheart being there didn't feel forced. A logical reason. I love the length as well, allowing characters like Ramonda, Oyoke, MBaku, and Nakia to grow and have their struggles. This might be one of my favorite MCU movies. I always enjoy the big ball busting super world bulidng MCU projects. But I'll always love the projects that focus on just their IP. Giving every character a meaning and time to grow. I'll definitely be rewatching this. I really hope with this, people will really see how experimental phase 4 was. Alot of origin stories but dealing with the grief of the snap. I feel like alot of the projects will be liked a few years from now similar to the Star wars prequels
@@DarrylsB All of the Chadwick Boseman stuff I didn't touch on because I felt it was a more casual opinion you'll hear. I thought they did it very well. They did an incredible balance of making it fit into the universe. Everything with him felt so real because it was based on real life. A plot that felt on edge because this movie was gonna be so different if he was in it. All the tributes felt so genuine. The funeral and ESPECIALLY the ending scene when not only Shuri, but we as the audience can truly move past him. Gone, but never forgotten. (It might sound reallyyyyyyyyy dorky but when I was in the theatre alone, I did a silent Wakanda Forever salute at the end of the funeral 😭😭😭😭😭😭)
There were two scenes at the end, with urgent, tense action, where they played old 80s synthesizer chords that were so overpowering and out of place that they transported me back into my theater seat which was a bad move because I realized how bad I needed to pee!
This was probably the best movie of Phase 4. The entire theater was dead silent at so many parts, it was something that I've never experienced in a Marvel movie before. Especially during the opening Marvel intro, it gave me chills, you could literally hear other people breathing, it was that quiet
I love the opening I found it very moving I really love the whole film. Coogler did a great job of expanding the world, and I love the themes explore in this film.
Honestly Namor was an excellent villian and quite literally a badass. This movie really kinda gave you conflicting feelings on who to cheer for at times
Really? It seemed pretty obvious who not to root for. The nation willing to launch a pre emptive war against the whole world, unprovoked. Because of something that happened over a thousand years ago by people from a bygone world. They should have stuck to him hating the surface for polluting so much if they wanted us to identify with his motives. There's almost nothing redeeming about his actions in this
Yea, that's why I felt they gone a little too over the top sometimes, making the Namor and his soldiers a little too evil. Like "gotta show the audience that they're the bad guys, so they gotta kill some people every 20mins"
Riri specifically didn’t have to be in the movie, but they needed a scientist/inventor to be the catalyst. And with them making a show for her, giving her an introduction that they can easily show flashbacks for will make it go quick. Having Riri in the movie is killing two birds with one stone.
I think it's quite telling that T'Challa and Nakia's son is also called T'Challa. It might be a longshot but maybe when he's older he will meet Ororo Munroe. Because there is nothing to say she isn't a child at this stage. We still don't know Marvel's X-Men plans after all.
Its great that Shuri decided to pass the mantle of ruler to M'Baku. Though she is the black panther, she doesn't feel fit to lead, especially since she doesn't have the combat skill or strength as other worthy challengers. M'Baku is always thinking what is best for his people and though has been outcast most of their history will put that aside for the betterment of Wakanda.
The Panther mantle could have been passed to one of a number of women (from the posters that much was clear), but I thought Shuri was the least likely since she did not, as far as we knew, have agility or physical prowess to build on. So apparently the herb gives panther power AND panther agility....kind of a stretch.
@@jimcarey7150 I genuinely don’t get what people are ever talking about here. Yes, Shuri is more of a scientist but she 100% can fight. She suited up in both Black Panther as well as Endgame. So clearly she already has skills and then she took the herb. How is that any different that Steve Rogers going from scrawny man to one of the best combatants? That’s right, it’s the serum/herb granting them those abilities. You can believe it for him but not for her?
@@reviewcentral8406 Shuri could fire her gauntlets but she isnt a combatant. She hasnt had the training that T'Chala had recieved. Although tech smart, she is a weaker black panther because of her inexperience.
@@reviewcentral8406 Nice try implying there's some agenda behind my not believing it about her. You kinda make my case. In Captain America: First Avenger, we see scrawny Steve Rogers getting in fights, grabbing a garbage can lid, going through basic training, jumping on a fake grenade--a whole montage BEFORE he got the serum. With Shuri, she ran around with zappy tech mittens (which petered out) and I'd have to watch it again but I doubt she laid a hand on Killmonger.
Wins for MCU movie that produced the most tears out of me. Ironheart and even Ross didn't need to be in the movie but they have to do set ups and they were included as artfully as could be done.
Riri was absolutely needed in this movie. Her vibranium detector was literally the catalyst for Namor coming to the surface. Without it the Govt wouldn't have been able to detect the vibranium coming from Namor's hidden city. Also it was how Namor found out about Wakanda and where it was. Remember Wakanda was only a legend to him, he had no idea it really existed. Riri's detector was ultimately what brought the two nations together for the better or for worse (war). And her building the Iron Heart suit in Wakanda was a metaphor for what Killmonger always wanted and what T'chala attempted to accomplish with his out reach centers. A poor black girl from Chicago, pretty much proving herself as one of the most intelligent people in the MCU, once she's given access to the resources of Wakanda. Both she and Shuri are a manifestation of the best parts of T'chala and KIllmonger in this movie. The movie was ultimately supposed to honor T'chala's legacy, but they sorta ended up honoring Killmonger too, by actually fulfilling his pure intentions, if he wasn't so overcome with rage, through introducing us to Riri aka Ironheart...... Riri was pivotal to overall and underlining story of Wakanda Forever.
They pulled the most creative and respectful way to recast T’Challa. I’ll give it to them, I did not think of that route. I look forward to see what they do with T’Challa Jr. And this movie was amazing. Good send off for Phase 4. I am sad we didn’t see a post credit scene of Dr. Doom or even a scene from the comics where a group of Wakandas resurrect Killmonger. I still wanna see more of Michael B. Jordan in the MCU.
Surprised you missed the Black Mirror reference in the hot ship/“Do you want a glass of water?” It’s exactly how Letitia Wright bests the museum director in Black Museum
My dude, you missed the cool reference to civil war when she says 'vengeance has consumed us, I will not let it consume our people' a nice repeat of tchalla's words to I think zero "vengeance has consumed you" I loved the line in both movies
Every tear was so genuine! I felt their pain from their loss. They did such an amazing job honoring Chad Bozeman while still moving the story. Gah! It was so good!
This was EPIC! The foe was formidable, the conversations were impactful, there was sooooo much more action, the outfits were banging, this had sad moments yes, but it wasn't a sad movie, they did CB so proud, the heart was there, tastefully done and Shuri in conflict with herself, it was wonderful and Namor's people looked extremely cool! The score was weaker and the marketing was better on first. The French being the hypocrites and them going to Haiti with real Haitians speaking Creole, none of that fake stuff and T'Challa's son being named after a Haitian revolutionary liberator, I was all the way here for this sequel. It was soooo good. I can't wait to buy the blu-ray!!!!
Liked it way better than the first one, some fights were kinda lame and some moments felt weird without any music but that's mostly nitpicking and overall the movie is amazing.
I’m gonna watch it today. I live in California, so it’s more later than you think, even though I’m watching it at 10:00 where I live. I’m going to watch this video after the movie when I get home
just want to say a big thank you for your in-depth breakdown featuring the history and culture of the Wakandan's (?) and of Namor's people. Much appreciated.
Another part is Shuri mimics Tchalla in a way... in civil war Tchalla says " Vengeance has consumes you... i won't let it consume me" . Shuri tells Namor " Vengeance has consumed us... we cannot let it consume our ppl" even though she chose mercy for Namor she's still not her brother and has both Killmonger and Tchalla as a part of her
My favorite part of when Namor shouted his catchphrase is that they translated Latin (a mostly dead language) into the Mayan language, which unless I'm wrong, is virtually extinct as a functioning language. I loved this movie. Cried twice because the raw emotions seen were real. I've read that the cast held each other up because they were grieving Chad while filming. Because it was real, I responded in kind. That doesn't happen often with me. Circumstances have to be just right. I knew from the trailers that Namor was going to stick with me and I wasn't wrong.
Mayan is not extinct. There are around 750,000 people who speak it in Mexico alone, and my guess is it rounds to about a million when you count countries in Central America too. The Mayan civilization was never fully conquered, as many retreated to the dense forest and settled in small villages there, where they remained largely isolated (kind of like Talokan in the movie)
Ryan, your breakdowns are phenomenal. I loved this movie out of the theater. Now I LOVE this movie even more. The obvious connections to the MCU were there but the I was so overwhelmed by the sensory experience of this film that all the subtle connections and call backs flew over me.
That scene shurii traveling talokan is crazyyy!!! The vibes where the movie is like showing us that it is a must to kill riri to defend talokan, but in the other side we know that its wrong, this create a feeling of unknown to which we have to side with
Excellent breakdown as always! Couple things: Killmonger never called T'Challa weak, but rather his "flaw" in being Wakanda's ruler was that he was "too noble." In character, it's more of a back handed compliment but if you put his rundown of his lineage in context, T'Challa and Ramonda were spoken with some amount of reverence [underlying MBJ's IRL respect for Boseman & Bassett] as the rest were referred to as cowards & obviously King T'Chaka, his father's murderer. Nice pull on the Maz Kanata figure, which is a fun reference as that character was played by Lupita N'Yongo! Speaking of Lupita, the part in which Nakia goes to Mexico & speaks Spanish to try gain information hits on a different level because Lupita was actually born IN MEXICO. I interpreted the entire third act is a cautionary tale for Black and Brown people if we're not willing to unify against societal evils. Namor even said it on the verge of death, "This could've been different." Namor NEVER wanted to fight; he did because HE HAD TO. It also shows that diplomacy is really the only way to peace. A spark that caused the whole conflict is Queen Ramonda's "Bring Shuri Home By Any Means Necessary" directive [while understandable] ends up being her own undoing as well as the deaths of hundreds of Wakandans. In this movie, they're really no villains EXCEPT the governmental figures who craving to get their hands on Vibranium who sparked this entire domino effect which lead to the Wakandans vs the Talokanians. If the military were not caught by the Talokanians near the rupture revealing the Vibranium, Namor has no reason to assume that Riri was afflicted with the government & this would have no reason to go after her, which wouldn't cause the Wakandans to protect her. The thing that makes Ramonda's "Show him who you are" so powerful is that previously that line is said as a rallying cry to demonstrate your power & use force. At the end, it's used to exercise compassion and choose to be benevolent. In this movie, Shuri's path for vengeance ends VERY similar to T'Challa's where the acting Black Panther actively chooses mercy. I'm actually proud that I caught the news ticker easter eggs but I'm curious, Ryan [and anyone who knows]; who do you think New Asgard forged a deal with? Do you think this is where we get our first tie to Latveria? I'm sure you'll talk about it in a future video! I should probably stop as I feel like I'm at the point where I have more to say & I've gotta get back to life stuff and I feel myself getting off point. In regards to talking about this movie, much like Captain America, "I can do this all day" as I really loved it as it's rich in themes, execution, and performances that's summed up in a worthy tribute to the late great Chadwick Boseman. Love your content, Ryan & Doug!
I know they were going to pg13 vibes but there is NO way I would show mercy to someone who murdered my mother in front of me. The world would burn first !
@@ajheartsong great, now there's a forever war between Wakanda and the atlanteans. I know what you mean about the resolution being very flat tho. It was pretty unrealistic to have him fly in beside her as an equal. He should have been bound and forced to call off his warriors
I'm also going to disagree with OP and point out that namor was very much so, a villain. He was litteraly going to destroy the surface world because people were going to find out about them. That's it. That's all he needed to kill billions of innocent people. I'd honestly like to hear you explain how he's NOT a villain. Thanos had better intentions than namor...
You forgot how Nakia was stabbed in the stomach by Namor, it was a direct reference to the how Killmonger was finished by being stabbed in the stomach as well. It's also a warning in a sense in how following a path of grief and vengeance sows only your destruction.
I just came home from seeing the movie with my brother and his fiance and we enjoyed it from start to finish. What a great and epic movie it was as well as a heartfelt tribute to Chadwick Boseman. Now we're looking forward to seeing where things go with Phase 5 of Marvel.
36:50 It’s Killmonger’s suit, she didn’t add gold to another. The scene showed T’Challa’s & T’Chaka’s masks next to each other, and Shuri looks at them; then she walks past them & picks up Killmonger’s mask. She modified Killmonger’s suit for herself, then headed out.
I loved this movie. I can see and recognize the flaws that it has,but it was still a beautiful movie and one of the best Marvel has put out in a while. Letitia Wright was fantastic!
Sucks to see a lot of negativity toward Leticia Wright. I totally agree with the OP....she was FANTASTIC. And gave me chills seeing her suit up for the first time. 🥺🤘
Ryan did such a fantastic job explaining how the themes of the movie tie into the real life cultural representations. This video is a great resource and makes the movie even richer when watching the second time. You are a beast Ryan! Thank you for this!
Killmonger does not say T'Challa was weak. He says "Too Noble" he had honor even for his enemies. Killmonger finds compassion and honor as weakness. Its to show shuri her two paths. Honor and compassion Or brute force and brutality to your enemies. And at the end she uses BOTH to get Namor to yield.
I mean when you think about it killmonger was pretty much right I mean heck at the very beginning you see that France is trying to infiltrate and steal what they have.... Which is a very real reflection of how France oppresses many African countries to this day, it reminds me of when friends said that without the resources they get from Africa they would be a third world country...
I'm wondering if Tony's name will be dropped in the Iron Heart series. Remember Tony did give out checks to the MIT students at one point. So Riri probably used her money to purchase part of Iron Man's suits to reverse engineer. We may get a Cameo from War Machine as well. Him investigating why there's someone flying around in Tony's suit when Tony himself didn't want anyone except those he personally wanted to have one. Remember also; Tony was the one that blew up his outfits and lab.
Actually, Rhodes is getting a show, Armor Wars. Well, it was supposed to be a show, its gonna be a film now. So maybe Rhodes will just have a cameo in IronHeart to set up Armor Wars, or he'll just be her mentor.
You keep saying that Riri was completely unnecessary and I thought so as well, before I saw the film. A scientist character who creates the vibranium detector and is then saved from Namor by Wakanda was completely necessary. Eric's speech in the ancestral plane kind of hinges on the fact that T'Chaka would have killed Riri and Romanda saved her. Could it have been some random no-name character? Sure. But the character isn't shoe horned into the plot and if it can be someone that serves both the story and world building then why not? People have been whining all of phase 4 about things not being connected enough.
The Scene where the wakanda female warriors charged down on the side of the ship tied with ropes are very similar to the scene of the chinese female warriors in the Great Wall movie charging down the wall towards the monsters. Someone in this film production probably watched that film and liked that scene enough to put it here in this movie as well. :)
The scene when she was talking at the un while the mercenaries invaded wakanda foreshadowed the scene where they rescued shuri while Namor talked to the queen
Would argue that RiRi does need to be in the movie. It establishes her as having a brilliant mind on par with Shuri so we don't have to spend time in her show making that argument
I love that you compared comic Namor's culture to the Greco-Roman one. Movie Namor's real life mesoamerican culture is similar. The Mayan empire existed centuries before the Aztec one, but they are now both portrayed as having a similar but not identical regional heritage
Whoa! That was a lot to digest but thank you for sharing. I didn't know that black panther had so much history but that's why I like watching you videos about Marvel movies. And now I'm wondering what they're going to do next. Can't wait!
T’Challa also said a few lines in the first movie that told he was a scientist. When she showed him the new model of Black Panther suit (or the beads, I can’t remember) and he said it was nothing wrong with his model. And she said it could be improved upon.
@@jacobsampsonis7782 In the scene where Shuri's showing T'Challa around the lab before he goes on his mission to Busan, Shuri gestures to the suit that he wore at the time and he said "my design" indicating that T'Challa is in fact tech savvy, a scientist, and designed the suit that he wore up until that point.
I thought Shuri was planting the synthesized herbs at the end (if you can plant something like that lol) bc it was purple whereas the talokan plant was blue
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Buying a disposate is not good for the environment since 1) there is no proof of the trees they plant 2) the carbon footprint of that metal plate is far bigger. Good old greenwashing
Isn't namor fireproof according to the comics?
Feathered serpent God. So a dragon? Kukulkan is huge and reminds me of Asian dragons. But of course I doubt Mayans and Aztecs used the word dragon. So it's just a matter of how Europeans decided to translate it.
@@keach1983 I believe so.. but I think because he was so dehydrated of water he was weakened.
Riri is in the film cause her professor is Doom but his scene was cut.
My favorite Chekov's gun moment: During the scene at Riri's dorm room, when she was threatening Shuri and Okoye, Riri was holding her heater then Shuri goes "so good luck defending yourself with your heater when that man with wings come to get you", it turns out the heater was his weakness
Facts definitely missed 👏🏿
💯
App
P
p,..
I love that irony.
I feel so vindicated. Thank you.
Queen Ramonda told Shuri reflect alone by the water and you will see T’Challa like I did. At the end Shuri reflects by the water and sees T’Challa…Jr.
Well, that and also reflect on the times they spent together.
Facts 💯
What a beautiful insight! Thanks 🙏
@@master-of-many-fandoms2020 Thats the implied understanding, the twist and surprise is how she did that then turned around and saw him literally.
Or she saw Bully McGuire and he said “oh look at little T’Challa Jr…gonna cry?” 😂
Here's one I think people missed, when Ross is being kidnapped, the license plate reads CB112976 - Chad's birthdate
thank you for this Easter egg
Nice catch!
Nice. Thank you for sharing this
I thought there was something with that number plate! Oh gosh how lovely ❤
Nice!!!!
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in any easter egg videos - at the end when Shuri and Riri are back in the lab saying their goodbyes, there is a brief glimpse of Shuri's feet and she's wearing the same "old school" sandals she mocked T'Challa for wearing in the first film. I thought that was a sweet touch to honor both her brother and tradition.
"What are those"
@@sysrqstoic I've really get that reference 😳😂😂😂🐸
Shuri's arc is awesome. I really liked how her character evolved from enthusiastic tech genius, to grieving younger sister, revenge berserker and her finding peace at the end. That the kind of character development you don't often see
Black Panther literally went through that in Cap Civil War
Jordan, tchalla didn’t have a nerd phase
I agree. I also hope they take her arc to the more shaman spiritual black panther. IRL her faith her been Central to her life and career (and come back for this movie after injury).
It was like the team lost their HOF franchise superstar and tried to replace him with the 12th man or woman on the bench. Man, her gut and spinal core were speared right through, but she was just fine because how? lmao.
@@yongdol73 She wore an advanced nanotech suit and strengthened herself with heart-shaped herb. Also that was foretold earlier in the movie, when the Talocan soldiers was pierced by Okoye's spear through their stomaches but they could still stood up later. Tony had his gut pierced a bigger hole on Titan and got no strengthening but only his suit, and he even stayed malnutrition for weeks before he got rescued.
Also, we didn't see Shuri's back, how can you be sure that her spinal core got hit?
I think it was cool how M'baku was the voice of reason, when he was previously the more aggressive one.
and he'll be the king in the next BP movie
He was a bully in the first movie, in this one he became my favorite. His voice of reason was shown fully.
Now he's a three dimensional character. One who Can and will use violence to accrue his means. But one smart enough to not always use it.
His acting was spot on. The actor did an AMAZING job. I'll have to see what else he's been in after this role!
He's just a fishman 😳😳😳😆😆😆
When Angela Bassett spoke about how she lost everything as the queen when she was in her throne room was to me the most powerful scene I might have seen in any marvel movie.
P.S. I definitely believe this is the first time that anybody said I'm a mutant just flat out when Namor said it.
Right! The first time the word mutant was used in an MCU movie from what I remember.
@@insidejah9293 2nd dr strange 2 was the first
Bertie Bassett was better
Because she is a powerful actor and she got the lines she needed for the impact
Imagine what could come out of viola Davis in Suicide squad movies if they let it.?
In Ms Marvel Kamala’s friend says there’s a mutation in her DNA then the X-men 90s theme plays in the background.
This was by far the quietest Marvel movie. There were full minutes where the theatre was silent...
Yup felt felt and notice that too, it worked for the moment every time
Rivals the silence after Thanos’ snap in Infinity War. A different kind of silence but a room of silence…
Real life has no soundtrack.
Yes, and I’m grateful for it. Just glad it wasn’t goofy like Love & Thunder
Everyone was sniffling and then cheered at the end
My theatre was silent for all the parts honoring Chadwick Boseman. I loved the respect and chilling silence everyone had for these few moments.
Mine was too
Mine was too, and so was my family members in Canada. I love how we all collectively respected that moment
I thought cinemas were meant to be silent all the time
Mine as well, first movie I’ve ever been to that had NO empty seats and Not a peep or movement from anyone. Some ppl cried ❤
Same
A nice, but easy to miss Easter egg is that Nakia’s house on the beach is numbered 1804. This is a nod to Haiti’s Declaration of Independence on January 1st, 1804 at the end of the revolutionary war. The number 1804 comes up often in Haitian artistic works. Toussaint Louverture, however, died in prison in France in April 1803 and never saw his dream fulfilled. This remains a great homage to a remarkable, often forgotten man. I loved this movie and it’s small connections to my homeland. Wakanda forever!
I was gonna point out the same thing... And of course Tchalla Jr being called Toussaint after the Haitian revolutionary leader.
Also of note, the title card for Marvel Studios played wind noises, and Ramunda says "I can hear him in the wind" so the sound is also a tribute to Chadwick in itself
Wow nice
Thank you for sharing this
The first and last scene of Agent Ross is him on the run. Such great symbolism.
What caught me off guard was he was married to val 😳
Bro was married to Val 😭
And an AirPod Pro 2 ad
I’m starting to wonder if Val isn’t going to be so much of a bad guy but just a new slightly darker Fury. Unless she’s a female variant of Kang, I’ve always thought that because VAL upside down looks like TVA
@@DevilDogZak lol i doubt the Kang thing tho this version of her may even be a skrull but who knows maybe your right 🤷🏾♂️
T'Challa's kid appeared earlier in the film when Queen Ramonda first visited Nakia in Haiti. He was the kid who asked Queen Ramonda, "Are you the new headmistress?"
i thought he said "Are you looking for the headmistress?"
@@apbhaduri correct
it's kind of sad when you realise ramonda died not knowing she talked to her grandson then
@@b1ztake she did know and wanted tell shuri that by the river
Huhhhhhhhhhhhh
I can’t believe Ryan Coogler made Namors little silly winged feet into something totally badass
Those wings looked spooky.
IKR
I mean when you think about it it gives some incredible angular speed, and yeah they kind of look creepy 😆
Another note. When Attuma and Namora attack Okoye Shuri and Riri, near the end when Namora chucks a water bomb at Attuma, he uses his hip to bounce it into Okoye. Probably because of their sport they play back in Talokan where they use their hip to bounce a ball through a hole
its a real game in mexico n its called Ulama
Oh great catch! That is a purely Mayan historical thing. It is assumed they played that game to settle conflicts too so it makes sense Attuma would use those game moves.
Angela Bassett did some of the best acting I have ever saw in this movie hands down
Did she die?
@@ezrachansa2231 yup in the movie namor drowned her
Cheers big homie
Her acting kinda resembles Charlize Theron in Snow White and Huntsman. Even one of their lines sound similar and I was like huh, they prob got inspo from it
@@kekw5153 I doubt a company like marvel, was inspired from that lol
Wakanda Forever had the best depiction of Haiti and Haitians in nearly any media that wasn't controlled by Haitians. ✊🏿 🇭🇹
agreed
diaspora honored; Killmonger sought to unite and protect them
loved the original and appropriate languages. Americans in general are so lazy not learning multiple languages and demanding people "Speak English!"
I wondered what Haitians would think of it.
Yes....and they pronounced it as Ayiti....the way it should be
@@DarrylsB i would have been so mad if the talokan people spoke english for this exact reason... just completely self centred
@@DarrylsB isn't it ironic how all the stuff with ye and kyrie, has happened during this movie?
Ahayah is calling back Israel?
The first appearance of the talokan is so frightening.
so good.. SO good.
Yesssss….
Right, it was mysterious and creepy and reminded me of the fear of the ocean
For sure I was like no one said this would be a horror movie so creepy
I thought it was great for Ryan to dabble in suspense and horror by creating tension underwater.
Spoiler alert (but I’m sure we all saw the movie right?)When the girl turned around and only the cable was left of her dive partner, I was like 😵and they weren’t found tied up or anything, they were never seen again
Sad they had to kill my girl Lake Bell😢
Also very non-Disney for people to get killed in this movie (though there was no blood or gore), it raises the stakes and sets the tone and seriousness of the movie. These Takonians aren’t taking prisoners, they are killing people
To think they gave Chadwick Bose man a moment of silence in every movie theatre in every showing I can’t imagine a better way to honour him R.I.P
Sad, this movie didn't earn enough money.
You know one thing I haven't really seen ackowledged. Is at best Shuri was always meant to be somewhat of a side character, meaning that is all Leticia Wright had signed up for and look at what she achieved. Incredible acting. I felt what she felt. Her grief. Her anger. Her pain. Her fight to return to peace. I think she has done such and incredible job. Much respect.
Loved the final scene. I lost my mom and dad a year ago and sitting down outside reflecting on those memories hit close to home
Sending you a lot of love!!
Sorry for your loss
These are moments that mean so much more when it hits home in life
Yeah hit home for me too lost my son's mom last year
Same here. My father-in-law passed away a year ago. The very beginning of the movie and especially the end she and my son were almost bawling.
That scene between okoye ,and queen Ramonda is what's gonna get angela Bassett that Oscar nom ,and hopefully win.
Yesssss….I was quivering when she was speaking.
I feel aside from the deaths, that was the most powerful scene! They were amazing
She won the Oscar for the Tina Turner story,l believe.
@Donna Small , she didn't. She was only nominated for that role.
@@donnasmall5102
Holly Hunter won for "The Piano".... double nominee as she was nominated for supporting actress as well the same yr for The Firm.
I think I like Wakanda Forever more than the first one. I'm glad Namor wasn't killed at the end because I REALLY want to see more of him and the Talokan.
Me also.
And the full army of namor is yet to be revealed so it will be more fun to watch in the future
Agreed. I like it more than the first too
Attuma becomes an enemy to Namor next.
Also Namor can't really die, the Ocean heals and revives him.
I also pondered why the Talokanil were overpowering the Wakandans, and I came to this conclusion… To be a Talokanil they ALL consumed their variation of the “Heart-Shaped Herb”, but only the Black Panther does this in Wakanda… So the Wakandans were technically fighting a completely super-powered nation with basically excellent training & weapons… What if ALL Wakandans consumed a version of the “Heart-Shaped Herb” (since Shuri now has the ability to synthesize it) 🤯
Namor is still stronger than everyone one else in Talokan. If everyone in Wakanda had equal strength it would create an interesting power struggle
Remember that only the family with royal blood can consume the Heart-shaped herb so its only Tchalla's family who can
@Trevor K I do recall that storyline about Wakanda's Heart-Shaped Herb... Based on what she did in Wakanda Forever, Shuri should be able to create something a non-royal Wakandan could take to enhance themselves.
And their training is under water which means it's a harder training
Made me laugh how they walk into wakanda and kick the crap out of them but, it took a sustained barrage from Thanos' army to breach their defences. Perhaps thanos should have recruited the sub mariner.
I must have shed a tear about 4 times throughout this movie.
Maybe I'm just becoming an emotional old softie.
thought i was the only one who shed tears in the movie
no, just means you have a hard time telling real life from movies.
@@tooslow4065 sooo... Things like movies, music, television and art can't invoke an emotional response?
No I cried too
@@tooslow4065 Art invokes emotional responses. That's why we make it..
Coogler absolutely nailed that intro. Brought tears to my eyes.
For real! I cried a few times during the movie.
This movie really stepped up and rose to the occasion. It’s not a perfect movie, or a masterpiece, but it’s everything it needs to be. Well written, outstanding performances, world-building, emotional, a tribute to Chadwick, and a return to the type of Marvel movie that made the MCU a juggernaut. I loved it.
It's really not
@@kongwubba81
Your opinion.
It had enough grieve, action, story building, other movie setup
I was surprised no multiverse stuff
It is not well written, sadly
I’m kind of surprised that no one I follow on TH-cam has mentioned Ramonda and Shuri’s hair. In the opening scene, they both have long hair. In the funeral scene their heads are mostly covered. When they meet Namor, they both have short hair. Many cultures have a tradition of cutting their hair or shaving their head when a family member dies and they enter a formal period of mourning. I wonder if that’s what they were implying here.
That was my thought too. They made it a point to repeatedly show Ramonda's hair. No way that's an accident.
I loved Shuri's braids as Black Panther! Super cool
Thank you for naming this.
Great insight. I never knew that. Thank you.
@@AmyKaylasVegas someone mentioned that shuri was taking aspects of both t’challa and n’jadaka’s panthers; she took his braided back hairstyle bc she was originally seeking vengeance before going the noble route like her big brother and sparing the other side
At one point during the movie, I really thought Okoye was going to be Black Panther. Especially when the Queen asked her to step down as general, I thought “well, now she’s free to serve Wakanda in another way.”
But I can live with Shuri being the next one.
And that Michael B Jordan cameo was amazing. Such a scene stealer.
Black panther can only be of royal blood.
I could really imagine okoye being black panther
@@marym1081 well then they could have at least set her up somewhat to be black panther. At this point she's just a super powered nerd. It would fit tchallas baby momma a lot more
@@jacobsampsonis7782it wouldn’t nakia is a spy and shuri has been training her whole life she’s a wakandan
Riri was in the movie to represent a part of Shuri that was fading away as she clung onto her grief from her brother’s death. Queen Ramonda dying to protect her is like her saving the part of her daughter that needs to survive. While not explicitly stated, that’s what I understand with Riri’s significance. It is likely she also benefited from the outreach program her brother left her in charge of. This is all fitting once her arc is nearly complete that she greets her the way her she once did with her brother.
Wow
it's also nice that a young black girl could get into college and be smarter than stark, and have a lot easier time building a power suit. and she did all that by just having the writers of the movie make it so, without having to earn it like start did. so brave.
Man this movie is so emotional I lost my mom and brother last year and I took time to reflect all the anger and other things that were going on This movie was Awesome
Sorry for your lost, really sorry 😞
I’m really sorry for your loss ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Man, I can't imagine how painful that must be when I already feel sorry for Shuri.
Sorry for your loss brother/sister. 🥲
Namor needs to have its own marvel entry on explaining its people. Such an amazing movie it can become. Namor is just as amazing as aqua man!
Namor now has 3 foot wings instead of four.
You mean better than Aqua dude.
He’s better!
Far better than Aquaman.
@@idioticfun1901 will they regenerate ?
This is an awesome movie. It's even more impressive when you think about how it had to be re-written after Chadwick died. I guess Bucky and Ayo aren't an item. I support M'Baku being king. He has helped them out so many times.
He’s with Sam sister. Sarah is her name. Not officially but will be soon.
Ayo is a lesbian, they were never gonna be a thing lol
Can we all take a second to acknowledge how awesome the sound design of Namor's wings were? The rattle snake sound was amazing in IMAX!!!
Yeah I believe that's part of why they thought he was The feathered serpent King
When Shuri goes to Haiti at the end of the movie and goes to see Nakia, the house number of the house that Nakia comes out of is 1804. 1804 is the year of Haitian independence. I like that Ryan Coogler not only put that in there but really showed the beauty of my country
Now I want to see a Nakia series with her traveling around the world speaking so many languages doing disguises while raising her son ,and training him to be a fighter.
Only you want to see that though
@@shahbaz6741 no not really. its seems interesting, and im sure more people would want to see something like that.
I’ll def see that. I’m also curious about her backstory!
Agreed.
@@shahbaz6741 better than the echo series comin
The gates to Wakanda opened in response to a sonic key. You could hear the key and then see the sonic reverberations on the gate just before it opened. I think Namor used the siren song on the gate to mimic its sonic key and sneak into Wakanda.
Could be!!
Or just swam under it
@@dirkdiggler9173 I'm assuming the gate extended under the water bc Wakanda knows that humans can swim.
@@covertTJ so you think namor knew all about wakanda’s defenses and everything before having any sort of contact with them ?
i feel like since before now they assumed there was no more vibranium in the world it might be somehow linked to that. like since he was covered in vibranium he was able to get through the shield or something
Suri had the Dr. Strange arc, and it makes so much sense for a "Science over Beliefs" person. This movie was AWESOME! Just left the theater and came right here, I avoided the spoiler for weeks!
The water weakness was always a part of the Namor canon. I remember reading a comic over 30 years ago where he was tricked into jumping into a pool to refresh his strength, and it was a trap pool filled with alcohol, and it dried his skin even faster... And he was then defeated by the enemy and put in chains.
They did that in Spider- Man and His Amazing Friends episode Seven Little Super Heroes.
This also happened in an animated series way back in the day. After diving in he says,”This is not water! It’s alcohol!” I remember this as my cousin and I used to watch the cartoon and as we approached drinking age, whenever we drank together, one of us would say,”This is not water! It’s alcohol!”😂
That was in a cartoon.
Ugh Queen Romanda’s death was so sad! :( but so happy to know T’Challa had a kid before he passed with Nakia!
I'm am wondering how she died faced down in water after getting riri multiple feet out of the water. Did she decide to jump back in afterwards?
@@kongwubba81 the queen wasn't a smart woman.
Leave it up to bad plot writers
@@kongwubba81 she crawled
@@kongwubba81 I questioned that, too, and my guess is that she was underwater for a while carrying Riri back up. She used all of her strength to get Riri on stable ground, and by that point she collapsed from exhaustion. One final heroic move before going out. Just my guess though.
Seriously how quickly he punches these out and covers so much is super impressive.. 👌
I think this movie is incredible. Firstly, it's just a beautiful piece of cinema. Not only are the visuals absolutely stunning with wide open shots of Wakanda but Namors utopia as well.
The sound design was incredible as well. They chose the perfect scenes for it to be silent and when there was music, it fit the atmosphere.
They allowed so much world building. All the characters felt needed and important. Very distinct and all needed for the plot to progress. The actors and actresses absolutely MURDERED thier roles. Everyone was so good in this movie, not a single person felt flat.
Shuris character development was incredible. Seeing her refuse to pass on from her brothers death and burying herself in her work. Not burning his cloth to acknowledge his passing. The symbolism in this movie is amazing. Alot of the issues and exact things that are happening to Shuri and the Wakandans happened to Namor. The difference and similarities in actions was awesome to see and compare.
The interpretation of Namor and his people were fantastic. I love so many of the scenes they were in. The opening shot of all of them being shown like a horror movie. Showing the peaceful civilization and how depsite their horrid history, how they are just a normal species.
Namor not just being a villain to be a villain and him being justified in his actions and it leaving the plot open for the governments wanting to follow up on all tje stuff "Wakanda" did. Namor is amazing. His fighting style, his interpretation, his accent, everything.
Ironheart being there didn't feel forced. A logical reason. I love the length as well, allowing characters like Ramonda, Oyoke, MBaku, and Nakia to grow and have their struggles.
This might be one of my favorite MCU movies. I always enjoy the big ball busting super world bulidng MCU projects. But I'll always love the projects that focus on just their IP. Giving every character a meaning and time to grow. I'll definitely be rewatching this.
I really hope with this, people will really see how experimental phase 4 was. Alot of origin stories but dealing with the grief of the snap. I feel like alot of the projects will be liked a few years from now similar to the Star wars prequels
Great take
love your insights.
cathartic movie with moving tributes to Chadwick - I cried throughout, in a good way
@@DarrylsB All of the Chadwick Boseman stuff I didn't touch on because I felt it was a more casual opinion you'll hear. I thought they did it very well. They did an incredible balance of making it fit into the universe. Everything with him felt so real because it was based on real life. A plot that felt on edge because this movie was gonna be so different if he was in it. All the tributes felt so genuine. The funeral and ESPECIALLY the ending scene when not only Shuri, but we as the audience can truly move past him. Gone, but never forgotten.
(It might sound reallyyyyyyyyy dorky but when I was in the theatre alone, I did a silent Wakanda Forever salute at the end of the funeral 😭😭😭😭😭😭)
There were two scenes at the end, with urgent, tense action, where they played old 80s synthesizer chords that were so overpowering and out of place that they transported me back into my theater seat which was a bad move because I realized how bad I needed to pee!
@@jimcarey7150 the overpowering chords were incredible and made good use of the cinema's surround sound
This was probably the best movie of Phase 4. The entire theater was dead silent at so many parts, it was something that I've never experienced in a Marvel movie before. Especially during the opening Marvel intro, it gave me chills, you could literally hear other people breathing, it was that quiet
You realize that means almost nothing correct? Phase 4 has been mediocre at best
My only real complaint about the movie was that there wasn’t more Namor lol. He was a boss in every scene
It's coming. Remember the introduced Black Panther in civil war, then his solo movie came out.
Ikr. I feel like there's barely Namor in the movie
@@MuichirouxGenya it's coming. This wasn't a namor movie. His solo film will come
@@teehud313 I don’t know bout that. But he’ll most likely be in black panther 3 if they have one
Facts and he's intimidating
The “have I not given everything” give me chills
I love the opening I found it very moving I really love the whole film. Coogler did a great job of expanding the world, and I love the themes explore in this film.
Me too….Coogler is a Greattttttt story teller.
Coogler Town Bidness
Best Director Doin It Right Now
🚫🍭💩
Honestly Namor was an excellent villian and quite literally a badass. This movie really kinda gave you conflicting feelings on who to cheer for at times
Really? It seemed pretty obvious who not to root for. The nation willing to launch a pre emptive war against the whole world, unprovoked. Because of something that happened over a thousand years ago by people from a bygone world. They should have stuck to him hating the surface for polluting so much if they wanted us to identify with his motives. There's almost nothing redeeming about his actions in this
Yea, that's why I felt they gone a little too over the top sometimes, making the Namor and his soldiers a little too evil. Like "gotta show the audience that they're the bad guys, so they gotta kill some people every 20mins"
Riri specifically didn’t have to be in the movie, but they needed a scientist/inventor to be the catalyst. And with them making a show for her, giving her an introduction that they can easily show flashbacks for will make it go quick. Having Riri in the movie is killing two birds with one stone.
The first movie came out in 2018 not 2016. Almost remembered that 5 years went by in Avengers End Game after Thanos beat the Avengers in Infinity War.
@@corden84 but it took place a week after Civil War. And that was 2016.
I think it's quite telling that T'Challa and Nakia's son is also called T'Challa. It might be a longshot but maybe when he's older he will meet Ororo Munroe. Because there is nothing to say she isn't a child at this stage. We still don't know Marvel's X-Men plans after all.
oh wow I LOVE this idea
Fucking awesome!!!
And it's possible to still tell the T'Challa Namor rival story as Namor is long lived! Good theory bro.
Yes!!!
@@alexanderthegreat5649 Especially if you tie it all the way back around to the fact that Namor is responsible for his grandmother's death.
Its great that Shuri decided to pass the mantle of ruler to M'Baku. Though she is the black panther, she doesn't feel fit to lead, especially since she doesn't have the combat skill or strength as other worthy challengers. M'Baku is always thinking what is best for his people and though has been outcast most of their history will put that aside for the betterment of Wakanda.
The Panther mantle could have been passed to one of a number of women (from the posters that much was clear), but I thought Shuri was the least likely since she did not, as far as we knew, have agility or physical prowess to build on. So apparently the herb gives panther power AND panther agility....kind of a stretch.
@@jimcarey7150 I genuinely don’t get what people are ever talking about here. Yes, Shuri is more of a scientist but she 100% can fight. She suited up in both Black Panther as well as Endgame. So clearly she already has skills and then she took the herb. How is that any different that Steve Rogers going from scrawny man to one of the best combatants? That’s right, it’s the serum/herb granting them those abilities. You can believe it for him but not for her?
@@reviewcentral8406 Shuri could fire her gauntlets but she isnt a combatant. She hasnt had the training that T'Chala had recieved. Although tech smart, she is a weaker black panther because of her inexperience.
@@reviewcentral8406 Nice try implying there's some agenda behind my not believing it about her. You kinda make my case. In Captain America: First Avenger, we see scrawny Steve Rogers getting in fights, grabbing a garbage can lid, going through basic training, jumping on a fake grenade--a whole montage BEFORE he got the serum. With Shuri, she ran around with zappy tech mittens (which petered out) and I'd have to watch it again but I doubt she laid a hand on Killmonger.
@@jimcarey7150 It was very clear Shuri was the new BP as she's placed in the center of every poster for the movie
Wins for MCU movie that produced the most tears out of me. Ironheart and even Ross didn't need to be in the movie but they have to do set ups and they were included as artfully as could be done.
Riri was absolutely needed in this movie. Her vibranium detector was literally the catalyst for Namor coming to the surface. Without it the Govt wouldn't have been able to detect the vibranium coming from Namor's hidden city. Also it was how Namor found out about Wakanda and where it was. Remember Wakanda was only a legend to him, he had no idea it really existed. Riri's detector was ultimately what brought the two nations together for the better or for worse (war). And her building the Iron Heart suit in Wakanda was a metaphor for what Killmonger always wanted and what T'chala attempted to accomplish with his out reach centers. A poor black girl from Chicago, pretty much proving herself as one of the most intelligent people in the MCU, once she's given access to the resources of Wakanda. Both she and Shuri are a manifestation of the best parts of T'chala and KIllmonger in this movie. The movie was ultimately supposed to honor T'chala's legacy, but they sorta ended up honoring Killmonger too, by actually fulfilling his pure intentions, if he wasn't so overcome with rage, through introducing us to Riri aka Ironheart...... Riri was pivotal to overall and underlining story of Wakanda Forever.
👏👏👏
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
brilliantly said! All the major sources now are all copied and paste! NewRockstar SC ect… are regurgitating the same nonsense!
could've literally been any other character. i found Riri to be one of worst new characters in the MCU, and that's saying a lot
*Had zero expectations going in and came out with the attitude that it was better than the original. Loved every second of it.*
They pulled the most creative and respectful way to recast T’Challa. I’ll give it to them, I did not think of that route. I look forward to see what they do with T’Challa Jr. And this movie was amazing. Good send off for Phase 4. I am sad we didn’t see a post credit scene of Dr. Doom or even a scene from the comics where a group of Wakandas resurrect Killmonger. I still wanna see more of Michael B. Jordan in the MCU.
Surprised you missed the Black Mirror reference in the hot ship/“Do you want a glass of water?” It’s exactly how Letitia Wright bests the museum director in Black Museum
Yess!!!! I recognized that reference immediately. I said, "oh, they are referencing Black Mirror which Leticia starred in!" So cool!
Best movie of phase 4. This really took me back on how great Marvel can be.
Facts 👏🏽 👏🏽
My dude, you missed the cool reference to civil war when she says 'vengeance has consumed us, I will not let it consume our people' a nice repeat of tchalla's words to I think zero "vengeance has consumed you" I loved the line in both movies
Every tear was so genuine! I felt their pain from their loss. They did such an amazing job honoring Chad Bozeman while still moving the story.
Gah! It was so good!
This was EPIC! The foe was formidable, the conversations were impactful, there was sooooo much more action, the outfits were banging, this had sad moments yes, but it wasn't a sad movie, they did CB so proud, the heart was there, tastefully done and Shuri in conflict with herself, it was wonderful and Namor's people looked extremely cool! The score was weaker and the marketing was better on first. The French being the hypocrites and them going to Haiti with real Haitians speaking Creole, none of that fake stuff and T'Challa's son being named after a Haitian revolutionary liberator, I was all the way here for this sequel. It was soooo good. I can't wait to buy the blu-ray!!!!
What did you think of the movie?
It was good. It feels like T'Challa is missing, but it was still good.
Amazing
Liked it way better than the first one, some fights were kinda lame and some moments felt weird without any music but that's mostly nitpicking and overall the movie is amazing.
@@TakisEnjoyer thought the same but overall movie is amazing.
I’m gonna watch it today. I live in California, so it’s more later than you think, even though I’m watching it at 10:00 where I live. I’m going to watch this video after the movie when I get home
just want to say a big thank you for your in-depth breakdown featuring the history and culture of the Wakandan's (?) and of Namor's people. Much appreciated.
They do it for money. No need to thank them
Another part is Shuri mimics Tchalla in a way... in civil war Tchalla says " Vengeance has consumes you... i won't let it consume me" .
Shuri tells Namor " Vengeance has consumed us... we cannot let it consume our ppl" even though she chose mercy for Namor she's still not her brother and has both Killmonger and Tchalla as a part of her
His exact words were "I'm done letting it consume me"
Namors army would of still wiped out wakanda and start war on the surface
My favorite part of when Namor shouted his catchphrase is that they translated Latin (a mostly dead language) into the Mayan language, which unless I'm wrong, is virtually extinct as a functioning language.
I loved this movie. Cried twice because the raw emotions seen were real. I've read that the cast held each other up because they were grieving Chad while filming. Because it was real, I responded in kind. That doesn't happen often with me. Circumstances have to be just right.
I knew from the trailers that Namor was going to stick with me and I wasn't wrong.
Mayan is not extinct. There are around 750,000 people who speak it in Mexico alone, and my guess is it rounds to about a million when you count countries in Central America too.
The Mayan civilization was never fully conquered, as many retreated to the dense forest and settled in small villages there, where they remained largely isolated (kind of like Talokan in the movie)
@@arnoldogutierrez7729 gotcha. Good to find out.
Both Mayans and Azteca still exist in Mexico. They are in similar situations as the natives in the United states
40 minutes of your best work, Ryan! Thank you for breaking this down for us like this!
This has to be your longest video ever and I loved every second of it !
Me too….sitting with the volume turned up and still thinking about the movie I say this morning
Ryan, your breakdowns are phenomenal. I loved this movie out of the theater. Now I LOVE this movie even more. The obvious connections to the MCU were there but the I was so overwhelmed by the sensory experience of this film that all the subtle connections and call backs flew over me.
Dude, his theories are so cool. I fw Ryan. He can totally join the blunt rotation
That scene shurii traveling talokan is crazyyy!!! The vibes where the movie is like showing us that it is a must to kill riri to defend talokan, but in the other side we know that its wrong, this create a feeling of unknown to which we have to side with
Excellent breakdown as always!
Couple things:
Killmonger never called T'Challa weak, but rather his "flaw" in being Wakanda's ruler was that he was "too noble." In character, it's more of a back handed compliment but if you put his rundown of his lineage in context, T'Challa and Ramonda were spoken with some amount of reverence [underlying MBJ's IRL respect for Boseman & Bassett] as the rest were referred to as cowards & obviously King T'Chaka, his father's murderer.
Nice pull on the Maz Kanata figure, which is a fun reference as that character was played by Lupita N'Yongo!
Speaking of Lupita, the part in which Nakia goes to Mexico & speaks Spanish to try gain information hits on a different level because Lupita was actually born IN MEXICO.
I interpreted the entire third act is a cautionary tale for Black and Brown people if we're not willing to unify against societal evils. Namor even said it on the verge of death, "This could've been different."
Namor NEVER wanted to fight; he did because HE HAD TO.
It also shows that diplomacy is really the only way to peace. A spark that caused the whole conflict is Queen Ramonda's "Bring Shuri Home By Any Means Necessary" directive [while understandable] ends up being her own undoing as well as the deaths of hundreds of Wakandans.
In this movie, they're really no villains EXCEPT the governmental figures who craving to get their hands on Vibranium who sparked this entire domino effect which lead to the Wakandans vs the Talokanians.
If the military were not caught by the Talokanians near the rupture revealing the Vibranium, Namor has no reason to assume that Riri was afflicted with the government & this would have no reason to go after her, which wouldn't cause the Wakandans to protect her.
The thing that makes Ramonda's "Show him who you are" so powerful is that previously that line is said as a rallying cry to demonstrate your power & use force. At the end, it's used to exercise compassion and choose to be benevolent.
In this movie, Shuri's path for vengeance ends VERY similar to T'Challa's where the acting Black Panther actively chooses mercy.
I'm actually proud that I caught the news ticker easter eggs but I'm curious, Ryan [and anyone who knows]; who do you think New Asgard forged a deal with?
Do you think this is where we get our first tie to Latveria? I'm sure you'll talk about it in a future video!
I should probably stop as I feel like I'm at the point where I have more to say & I've gotta get back to life stuff and I feel myself getting off point. In regards to talking about this movie, much like Captain America, "I can do this all day" as I really loved it as it's rich in themes, execution, and performances that's summed up in a worthy tribute to the late great Chadwick Boseman.
Love your content, Ryan & Doug!
Salute Moses!
I know they were going to pg13 vibes but there is NO way I would show mercy to someone who murdered my mother in front of me. The world would burn first !
@@ajheartsong Aaaaand you missed the entire point of the storyline. Good job.
@@ajheartsong great, now there's a forever war between Wakanda and the atlanteans. I know what you mean about the resolution being very flat tho. It was pretty unrealistic to have him fly in beside her as an equal. He should have been bound and forced to call off his warriors
I'm also going to disagree with OP and point out that namor was very much so, a villain. He was litteraly going to destroy the surface world because people were going to find out about them. That's it. That's all he needed to kill billions of innocent people. I'd honestly like to hear you explain how he's NOT a villain. Thanos had better intentions than namor...
You forgot how Nakia was stabbed in the stomach by Namor, it was a direct reference to the how Killmonger was finished by being stabbed in the stomach as well. It's also a warning in a sense in how following a path of grief and vengeance sows only your destruction.
Shuri
Her name is Shuri, Ryan
The movie was great and so is this video...well done Ryan and Dog Friend.
I just came home from seeing the movie with my brother and his fiance and we enjoyed it from start to finish. What a great and epic movie it was as well as a heartfelt tribute to Chadwick Boseman. Now we're looking forward to seeing where things go with Phase 5 of Marvel.
36:50 It’s Killmonger’s suit, she didn’t add gold to another. The scene showed T’Challa’s & T’Chaka’s masks next to each other, and Shuri looks at them; then she walks past them & picks up Killmonger’s mask. She modified Killmonger’s suit for herself, then headed out.
Thanks. I did not know that.
I loved this movie. I can see and recognize the flaws that it has,but it was still a beautiful movie and one of the best Marvel has put out in a while. Letitia Wright was fantastic!
So, you don't want her to be recast because she refused to get vaxxed?
Best MCU movie since Endgame
@@danbauer3669 no thats dumb asf
@@glock-c7b agreed.
Sucks to see a lot of negativity toward Leticia Wright. I totally agree with the OP....she was FANTASTIC. And gave me chills seeing her suit up for the first time. 🥺🤘
I love the detail of Biology in Talokans that they are blue in the surface world but red/normal human color under water/Talokan...
36:32 not "weak", he called him "too noble" which is a positive negative, maybe not to offend his memory.
Namor said that his enemies call him Namor and Atuma was the only one of his people to do so. Awesome detail because Atuma is always at odds with him.
Ryan did such a fantastic job explaining how the themes of the movie tie into the real life cultural representations. This video is a great resource and makes the movie even richer when watching the second time. You are a beast Ryan! Thank you for this!
Killmonger does not say T'Challa was weak.
He says "Too Noble" he had honor even for his enemies.
Killmonger finds compassion and honor as weakness.
Its to show shuri her two paths.
Honor and compassion
Or brute force and brutality to your enemies.
And at the end she uses BOTH to get Namor to yield.
I mean when you think about it killmonger was pretty much right
I mean heck at the very beginning you see that France is trying to infiltrate and steal what they have....
Which is a very real reflection of how France oppresses many African countries to this day, it reminds me of when friends said that without the resources they get from Africa they would be a third world country...
I'm wondering if Tony's name will be dropped in the Iron Heart series. Remember Tony did give out checks to the MIT students at one point. So Riri probably used her money to purchase part of Iron Man's suits to reverse engineer. We may get a Cameo from War Machine as well. Him investigating why there's someone flying around in Tony's suit when Tony himself didn't want anyone except those he personally wanted to have one. Remember also; Tony was the one that blew up his outfits and lab.
Actually, Rhodes is getting a show, Armor Wars. Well, it was supposed to be a show, its gonna be a film now. So maybe Rhodes will just have a cameo in IronHeart to set up Armor Wars, or he'll just be her mentor.
I think, because Shuri commented that Iron Heart was working with Stark technology in her garage
@@Walt_Xander94 Armor wars has turned into a movie
Her having IronMan is pretty significant to her character. I’m sure they will most likely follow the comics with that
Aah you 😊
You keep saying that Riri was completely unnecessary and I thought so as well, before I saw the film. A scientist character who creates the vibranium detector and is then saved from Namor by Wakanda was completely necessary. Eric's speech in the ancestral plane kind of hinges on the fact that T'Chaka would have killed Riri and Romanda saved her. Could it have been some random no-name character? Sure. But the character isn't shoe horned into the plot and if it can be someone that serves both the story and world building then why not? People have been whining all of phase 4 about things not being connected enough.
The Scene where the wakanda female warriors charged down on the side of the ship tied with ropes are very similar to the scene of the chinese female warriors in the Great Wall movie charging down the wall towards the monsters. Someone in this film production probably watched that film and liked that scene enough to put it here in this movie as well. :)
@SC your explanation made the film even better for me. I would like to watch it again with this new insight.
The scene when she was talking at the un while the mercenaries invaded wakanda foreshadowed the scene where they rescued shuri while Namor talked to the queen
It was a good touch that she was in Haiti too. Most of the stories I hear of sirens and mermaids are from Haitian stories.
Would argue that RiRi does need to be in the movie. It establishes her as having a brilliant mind on par with Shuri so we don't have to spend time in her show making that argument
I love that it was alittle longer it didn't feel rushed! And I legit think Doug talks there's no way he doesnt.
That openin scene hit different it felt like a real celebration of light I cried so hard!!!
I love how they designed the underwater empire on the Mesoamerican culture.
I love that you compared comic Namor's culture to the Greco-Roman one. Movie Namor's real life mesoamerican culture is similar. The Mayan empire existed centuries before the Aztec one, but they are now both portrayed as having a similar but not identical regional heritage
Another cool thing I noticed my first watch was, the wings sound like rattles of a rattle snake. Amplifying the whole Serpent God thing.
lol everytime u and the dog high fived it took me OUT!! 🤣I really do enjoy these videos! yall crush it everytime!
This movie was off the hook!! Namur is NOT to be messed with!! And Shuri as Black Panther was... muah!! Just perfect!!!
Whoa! That was a lot to digest but thank you for sharing. I didn't know that black panther had so much history but that's why I like watching you videos about Marvel movies. And now I'm wondering what they're going to do next. Can't wait!
T’Challa also said a few lines in the first movie that told he was a scientist. When she showed him the new model of Black Panther suit (or the beads, I can’t remember) and he said it was nothing wrong with his model. And she said it could be improved upon.
How does that at all mean that? That would just infer that he likes his suit the way it is, without fancy gadgets
@@jacobsampsonis7782 In the scene where Shuri's showing T'Challa around the lab before he goes on his mission to Busan, Shuri gestures to the suit that he wore at the time and he said "my design" indicating that T'Challa is in fact tech savvy, a scientist, and designed the suit that he wore up until that point.
I thought Shuri was planting the synthesized herbs at the end (if you can plant something like that lol) bc it was purple whereas the talokan plant was blue
The make up of the soil will probably cause it to maintain its purple glow
She use T'challas blood during the process.
Doug stanning Waitng To Exhale made my day!
Studying Lord of the Flies now in college. I’ll have to bring up the conch connection to this movie! Thanks! Great video!
Doug is truly my favorite. also your knowledge of history. I love it ❤️