Mathieu Bellamont is probably Oblivion's most capable antagonist. Unlike those High Elf guys, Mathieu came within an inch of fully succeeding in his goals. He didn't dick around with minions that just get pawned by the player, he knew what he wanted to do and got cut just short of finishing off the Brotherhood for good.
Was just about to comment this. It could almost be argued that he DID succeed. Even though he was ultimately stopped short of his true intentions, he undoubtedly dealt a near-definitive blow to the Dark Brotherhood’s presence in Cyrodiil by causing the Sanctuary to be wiped out as well as systematically killing off 90% of the Black Hand. And all without lifting a finger. Maybe it’s a lesson in karma. Both Oblivion and Skyrim see the Brotherhood nearly wiped out at the end of their questlines, and both times because of revenge: Bellamont for killing his mother, and Maro for killing his son. What goes around comes around.
Guy wanted to wipe out the Dark Brotherhood. I'd call him protagonist. Imo huge hole in the plot is that you cannot help him killing the murderers. They are far from Morag Tong concept and for me never were even close to professionals as they claimed to be. Also, they are morally incorrect since Tribunal addon :D
His initial plan absolutely is the most capable, but it does fall apart after it is discovered. Because while he is able to frame Lucien for his deeds, after that his plan seems to be centered around killing the Night Mother while surrounded by 4 of probably the most capable living assassins in Tamriel, including the assassin who has killed every other assassin in Cyrodil. You have to assume that at that point, he knew it was suicide. He just didn't count on the Night Mother being anything more than an old lady living under a statue, and he had to figure he could at least take her with him. I'd say he comes just short of Mehrunes Dagon as far as how close he came to his goal, considering Dagon only lost via a Deus ex Machina kaiju battle. Dagon lost due to a factor that the game pretty much came up with on the spot, Mathieu lost because he never learned that you have to cast spells on ghosts in order to kill them. You'd think an assassin would know how to deal with vengeful spirits.
I was convinced that the khajiit in the sanctuary was the traitor. As soon as I get the quest to kill them all, he becomes super friendly and nice. Coincidence? No man, he was eavesdropping
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was doing some shady stuff because he hates the player all game and then all of the sudden before he dies he’s super friendly 😂
Yeah, I agree with you; considering many of the people assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood likely have family, friends, and the like, it's pretty surprising that it took as long as it did for someone like Bellamont to start wreaking havoc. How many more people are out there, heartbroken at the losses they've suffered, _desperately_ craving a chance to get some payback? Then again, considering the fact that many people in Tamriel think the Brotherhood is just an urban legend, it's possible that the people seeking revenge are going after the wrong guys. I mean, say your mom gets killed by some guy in a robe; you'd likely assume it was a home invasion, or a burglary gone wrong. Bellamont's story is a pretty tragic one, as he saw his mother brutally murdered as a child, and he quickly became obsessed with avenging her death. But over the years, from a combination of the killings he was no doubt perpetrating and spending _way_ too much time talking to a literal _severed head,_ he became the very thing he despised (Like you said, to become a member of the Black Hand, he'd logically have to do some pretty *NASTY* shit). That being said, he was inadvertently saving a great many lives by obliterating the Brotherhood, even if he had to take a pretty bloody path to get there. Kinda reminds me of the Punisher wiping out the Gnucci syndicate. He even managed to trick the Champion of Cyrodiil (who by this point is a _very_ competent assassin) into doing most of his dirty work for him. The only reason he failed is that Lucien Lachance realized what was happening and metaphorically slapped some sense into the Champion. Honestly, the way the Brotherhood dealt with traitors always kinda mystified me. I mean, you suspect someone in a particular Sanctuary has betrayed the Brotherhood, so your first response is to _exterminate the entire fucking Sanctuary?_ *Really?* Granted, when Lucien is first describing the Purification, he claims that it's only ever been done twice, which would imply that it's typically used as a last resort. But the way it's depicted in-game just doesn't support this notion, as neither Lucien nor the Black Hand ask the player to investigate anyone or anything in the Cheydinhal Sanctuary. They don't ask you to talk to anyone, gather clues, dig up evidence, interrogate the most likely suspects, _NOTHING;_ just straight to slaughtering everyone. It's stuff like the Purification that makes me wonder how the Brotherhood has managed to survive, more than anything else. I can believe that the Brotherhood is secretive enough to conceal their involvement in most of their assassinations, but the Purification makes absolutely *no fucking sense,* especially in the way it's used during the events of Oblivion. One last thing: Bellamont's intent was to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. And by the end of the Brotherhood's questline, the Black Hand has been utterly _crippled,_ with there being only two active members, one of which is the Champion of Cyrodiil, who is the _Listener,_ no less. And the Champion, during the events of the Shivering Isles, _becomes Sheogorath._ Which presumably results in them turning into a clone of the original Sheogorath, ala "Return of the Joker". Which one again deprived the Brotherhood of a worthy Listener, which resulted in catastrophic infighting. And just when it looked like they might make a comeback, the Great War happened. During which a number of the Brotherhood's Sanctuaries were stormed and sacked by both sides of the War. Which, in turn, resulted in the Brotherhood completely _falling apart._ It eventually got to the point where the Cyrodiilic branch of the Brotherhood consisted entirely of Cicero and another unnamed agent, the latter of which is believed to have deserted. Which forced Cicero to flee to Skyrim, the Night Mother's coffin in tow. Despite the Night Mother being saved, no new Listeners were ever appointed; as a result, what was left of the Brotherhood devolved into being little more than common sellswords. So, Bellamont's plan to wipe out the Brotherhood ultimately succeeded, in a roundabout sort of way.
I haven’t played Oblivion since its release these videos made me remember how fantastic this game was and is always overlooked by Skyrim, I just started a new game in Oblivion and now look forward to these videos absolutely top tier content.
Are we really questioning if the death cult deserves to stick around, morally speaking? It will never go away due to popularity granted, but in universe might as well get rid of it.
I can two ways how they end up. Either they get some sort of official recognition and stay around similar to the Morag Tong. Or they will be completely destroyed, from governments fighting them to more individuals undermining the faction. I could even see some counter faction. People who lost someone to the brotherhood and come together to prevent more assassinations. They could even enter a contract with another deity that tips them off.
Since all contracts have to first go through the Night Mother, she can decide on whether or not they are passed on to the listener. I always assumed that anything ridiculously out line would not be passed on, otherwise every politician ever would be dead?
It’s a good question on how it works! Her dialogue usually starts with “another person has prayed to the night mother” (at least in Skyrim) so maybe there isn’t a filter of sorts but you’re also right that I feel like a lot more prominent figures should have been assassinated!
Yeah, there totally has to be some check. No contract that would directly endanger the brotherhood goes through. The Night Mother even states that she led the whole betrayal play out on purpose because nobody saw it, so it was fine with her to clean out the guild.
You honestly have some of the most refreshing elder scrolls content out right now. Pretty much everything's been talked about, but you still find these cool niche topics to delve into more.
I really appreciate it! :) there’s a lot of questions and videos that I s tried to find clarification on and couldn’t! So I figured might well make them myself! :)
A little fun fact, The Ghost Ship of Anvil was caused by Bellamont. When you read his journal in the basement, it talks about how the crew were making fun of him because he was odd. So, in typical serial killer fashion, Bellamont snuck onto the ship and slaughtered the entire crew, leaving their souls to haunt the vessel. Although he is a minor character, he was definitely an interesting one.
I've never felt that the concept of the Dark Brotherhood makes sense. A guild of assassins is fine, sure, but the idea that literally anyone can perform a ritual to make someone else a target for any (or no) reason is silly. Bethesda works around this by essentially reserving these assassin contracts for "bad guys" or story-critical moments but it doesn't excuse how the faction actually works in-universe. Not to mention that something similar can be achieved by just paying a bunch of bandits or mercenaries to do the deed. It would make much more sense if the Dark Brotherhood was much more selective in the contacts they accept or actively punished people summoning them for what amounts to someone being mad for having their sweetroll stolen. Other than the ritual itself being outlawed, there's no consequence to performing it regardless of who does it or for what reason. The utter lack of checks and balances is a real problem with the faction and the only reason the Dark Brotherhood isn't swamped in contracts is because the writers just opt for them to not exist until they're needed to move a plot point along.
The biggest flaw of the brotherhood is that they're so hard on appearing evil. Their name, the black sacrament, the whole visual flair, everything. If I were the founder of such a guild I would do everything to avoid the whole evil assassin theme. We're the "kitty flower association", the ritual to contact us requires a sweetroll, rose petals and gold coins, and every contract is checked. And we make sure to acquire some form of official papers like the Morag Tong does (even if we fake them)
The dark brotherhood is crazy listening to a corpse, while the far less crazy Bellamont, who also listen to it but *also* to the dismembered head of his own mother is better? If you're a good character you probably won't murder anyone so you wouldn't stumble upon the dark brotherhood to begin with. Perhaps a quest to purge everybody from the start would be an option since you can be the good guy in skyrim stumbling upon Aventino and be morally gray taking down Grelod, who is quite frankly a terrible person. You can also stumble on the dark brotherhood in skyrim with a radiant meeting with an assassin who got a note on their body, though you can't do much with it.
There are a lot of blurred lines with the dark brotherhood that’s for sure! There are a lot of quests that the player ends up killing innocent people for and the dark brotherhood still visits them as well!
I always felt conflicted when having to perform the purification, wiping out an entire guild. Would have been cool if you could have optionally sided with Mathieu
AJ, Benoit, Angle, Eddie. I was thinking he'd go with Rey at 1 and had to delete my original comment praising Eddie as the greatest under 6' wrestler. He had the best mix of in ring skill, charisma, mic skills, and appeal to non wrestling fans.
@@ABardsBallad I really hope so, I'm sure it's hard to come up with some of these video ideas however you've been doing amazing and they're genuinely interesting
The Night Mother is the one who decides which contracts to accept, and, it seems as though most people don't know how it works. As far as the rite, but... it seems as though it's considered as sacrilegious. Most are good, god-fearing people or... something.
The Dark Brotherhood really ought to be eradicated. The murdering isn't really even the worst part of their antics. It's the fact they are able to impact people's afterlives and send their immortal souls to Sithis, AKA the Void. Neither Aedra nor Daedra. Basically, that is evil of the highest caliber, without question. It's one thing to murder someone. Another to then override any choices they have made in life as a person and directly dispatch their soul to that kind of purgatorial suffering for all eternity as a kind of destiny hijacking. Murdering and then playing psychopomp to peoples souls to one of the worst possible destinations. At least Daedra usually need you to worship them/mess with dark stuff and thus you kind of get what you were asking for to end up in their unfun houses after expiring. But for many people who actually have a course into pretty chill and good afterlives, only for the Dark Brotherhood to come a calling, that's untolerable levels of evil. That said, I do wonder what happens if a Dark Brotherhood assassin uses soul trap on a victim? Who then gets dibs on the soul? Sithis, or the Ideal Masters? Sithis is probably much more powerful than the Ideal Masters, but the latter does have more ties to Mundus meaning they might be in closer proximity to snag the soul up.
I remember the first time i had to do the purification ritual. I was sad about killing everyone but the kajhiit lol. Was like this every playthrough until i got desensitized to it.
Well You can hire dark Brotherhood to kill anyone even for no reason, just give them coin and the job will be done So it is justified But the way the quest goes is just unexpected and lots of twists
From a quick scroll through the comments haven't seen any discussion of the deity lore behind the Dark Brotherhood and Sithis being one of the primordial forces. So DB being one of the groups with the most in world evidence for their deity/ies (depending on the Night Mother's exact status in your interpretation) existence and power on Nirn. So in a way they have to exist if the other religious groups do, to create balance. Also, not a reflection on my real world morals but I see a lot of them as not evil at all? They are warm and loving and welcoming and accepting? Far nicer than a lot of groups! They worship and perform services they have an affinity for and are in touch with their "god/s" when they do so. I think its a lot more complex with them than to just say murder is evil or that they do it for money. With Teinaava's Shadowscale quest and Francois Mottiere quests we see there is honour and complex emotions and compromises
He became the very monster he hated in order to destory it. Arguably I love the guild and the members, but realistically you are all killers for hire 😮 so in reality he did the world a favour? But still, poor Lucien. So I will never forgive him 😂 Had this been the guild on Skyrim, I would have sharpened his blade and helped 😂😂
I mean yeah of course it was justified. That's not even really a question you can debate. The Dark Brotherhood has no regard for who it kills as long as it's not a fellow member. The thing is that's kind of what I like about it too, it's not some morally grey vigilante society trying to make the world a better place, its an unambiguous evil murder cult only interested in its own gain. I don't think they need to be more than that. Its pretty rare for games to let you join a faction that's so blatantly ethically bankrupt to an almost cartoonish degree.
Glad you agree! The game sets it up in the way that he’s an antagonist but I think the ultimate question is should he be viewed as a protagonist in this sense!
Yeah, while I generally like it when games don't give perfectly good and evil factions (like how everyone in New Vegas is some shade of gray), adding morally good and evil factions into the mix to fill the whole spectrum, and letting us join them makes it more interesting.
@@ABardsBallad Oh he's definitely an antagonist, because that's entirely based on narrative perspective. An antagonist is defined by their opposition to the protagonist which in this case is the player. The question I think you mean, is could he be viewed as the good guy at the very least relative to who he's dealing with and that would be yes. Anti-hero perhaps?
A little fun fact, The Ghost Ship of Anvil was caused by Bellamont. When you read his journal in the basement, it talks about how the crew were making fun of him because he was odd. So, in typical serial killer fashion, Bellamont snuck onto the ship and slaughtered the entire crew, leaving their souls to haunt the vessel. Although he is a minor character, he was definitely an interesting one.
!["ซี - เอมี่ " ย้อนความรัก 19 ปี ที่ต้องทนกันและกัน... | แฉ 22 ต.ค. 67 [2/3] | GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ykv9ILzatHM/mqdefault.jpg)
Mathieu Bellamont is probably Oblivion's most capable antagonist. Unlike those High Elf guys, Mathieu came within an inch of fully succeeding in his goals. He didn't dick around with minions that just get pawned by the player, he knew what he wanted to do and got cut just short of finishing off the Brotherhood for good.
He’s definitely one of the closest an NPC has actually come to completing their goals in this game 😂
Was just about to comment this. It could almost be argued that he DID succeed. Even though he was ultimately stopped short of his true intentions, he undoubtedly dealt a near-definitive blow to the Dark Brotherhood’s presence in Cyrodiil by causing the Sanctuary to be wiped out as well as systematically killing off 90% of the Black Hand. And all without lifting a finger.
Maybe it’s a lesson in karma. Both Oblivion and Skyrim see the Brotherhood nearly wiped out at the end of their questlines, and both times because of revenge: Bellamont for killing his mother, and Maro for killing his son. What goes around comes around.
Guy wanted to wipe out the Dark Brotherhood. I'd call him protagonist. Imo huge hole in the plot is that you cannot help him killing the murderers. They are far from Morag Tong concept and for me never were even close to professionals as they claimed to be. Also, they are morally incorrect since Tribunal addon :D
The one flaw in his plan was trying to destroy a ghost without enchanting his dagger.
His initial plan absolutely is the most capable, but it does fall apart after it is discovered. Because while he is able to frame Lucien for his deeds, after that his plan seems to be centered around killing the Night Mother while surrounded by 4 of probably the most capable living assassins in Tamriel, including the assassin who has killed every other assassin in Cyrodil. You have to assume that at that point, he knew it was suicide. He just didn't count on the Night Mother being anything more than an old lady living under a statue, and he had to figure he could at least take her with him.
I'd say he comes just short of Mehrunes Dagon as far as how close he came to his goal, considering Dagon only lost via a Deus ex Machina kaiju battle. Dagon lost due to a factor that the game pretty much came up with on the spot, Mathieu lost because he never learned that you have to cast spells on ghosts in order to kill them. You'd think an assassin would know how to deal with vengeful spirits.
I was convinced that the khajiit in the sanctuary was the traitor. As soon as I get the quest to kill them all, he becomes super friendly and nice. Coincidence? No man, he was eavesdropping
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was doing some shady stuff because he hates the player all game and then all of the sudden before he dies he’s super friendly 😂
Foul smelling Ape 😂
The closest thing to taking a stand against the Brotherhood is killing Lechance when you first meet him, he is nonessential for the first interaction.
Yeah, I agree with you; considering many of the people assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood likely have family, friends, and the like, it's pretty surprising that it took as long as it did for someone like Bellamont to start wreaking havoc. How many more people are out there, heartbroken at the losses they've suffered, _desperately_ craving a chance to get some payback? Then again, considering the fact that many people in Tamriel think the Brotherhood is just an urban legend, it's possible that the people seeking revenge are going after the wrong guys. I mean, say your mom gets killed by some guy in a robe; you'd likely assume it was a home invasion, or a burglary gone wrong.
Bellamont's story is a pretty tragic one, as he saw his mother brutally murdered as a child, and he quickly became obsessed with avenging her death. But over the years, from a combination of the killings he was no doubt perpetrating and spending _way_ too much time talking to a literal _severed head,_ he became the very thing he despised (Like you said, to become a member of the Black Hand, he'd logically have to do some pretty *NASTY* shit). That being said, he was inadvertently saving a great many lives by obliterating the Brotherhood, even if he had to take a pretty bloody path to get there. Kinda reminds me of the Punisher wiping out the Gnucci syndicate. He even managed to trick the Champion of Cyrodiil (who by this point is a _very_ competent assassin) into doing most of his dirty work for him. The only reason he failed is that Lucien Lachance realized what was happening and metaphorically slapped some sense into the Champion.
Honestly, the way the Brotherhood dealt with traitors always kinda mystified me. I mean, you suspect someone in a particular Sanctuary has betrayed the Brotherhood, so your first response is to _exterminate the entire fucking Sanctuary?_ *Really?* Granted, when Lucien is first describing the Purification, he claims that it's only ever been done twice, which would imply that it's typically used as a last resort. But the way it's depicted in-game just doesn't support this notion, as neither Lucien nor the Black Hand ask the player to investigate anyone or anything in the Cheydinhal Sanctuary. They don't ask you to talk to anyone, gather clues, dig up evidence, interrogate the most likely suspects, _NOTHING;_ just straight to slaughtering everyone. It's stuff like the Purification that makes me wonder how the Brotherhood has managed to survive, more than anything else. I can believe that the Brotherhood is secretive enough to conceal their involvement in most of their assassinations, but the Purification makes absolutely *no fucking sense,* especially in the way it's used during the events of Oblivion.
One last thing: Bellamont's intent was to destroy the Dark Brotherhood. And by the end of the Brotherhood's questline, the Black Hand has been utterly _crippled,_ with there being only two active members, one of which is the Champion of Cyrodiil, who is the _Listener,_ no less. And the Champion, during the events of the Shivering Isles, _becomes Sheogorath._ Which presumably results in them turning into a clone of the original Sheogorath, ala "Return of the Joker". Which one again deprived the Brotherhood of a worthy Listener, which resulted in catastrophic infighting. And just when it looked like they might make a comeback, the Great War happened. During which a number of the Brotherhood's Sanctuaries were stormed and sacked by both sides of the War. Which, in turn, resulted in the Brotherhood completely _falling apart._ It eventually got to the point where the Cyrodiilic branch of the Brotherhood consisted entirely of Cicero and another unnamed agent, the latter of which is believed to have deserted. Which forced Cicero to flee to Skyrim, the Night Mother's coffin in tow. Despite the Night Mother being saved, no new Listeners were ever appointed; as a result, what was left of the Brotherhood devolved into being little more than common sellswords.
So, Bellamont's plan to wipe out the Brotherhood ultimately succeeded, in a roundabout sort of way.
I haven’t played Oblivion since its release these videos made me remember how fantastic this game was and is always overlooked by Skyrim, I just started a new game in Oblivion and now look forward to these videos absolutely top tier content.
Thank you for the support! I really appreciate it! It’s a super fun game to play again after all these years!
Are we really questioning if the death cult deserves to stick around, morally speaking?
It will never go away due to popularity granted, but in universe might as well get rid of it.
Not questioning it all! Just seeing past the game’s attempt at making us feel bad for the death cult since it’s members are being taken out 😂
I can two ways how they end up.
Either they get some sort of official recognition and stay around similar to the Morag Tong.
Or they will be completely destroyed, from governments fighting them to more individuals undermining the faction.
I could even see some counter faction. People who lost someone to the brotherhood and come together to prevent more assassinations. They could even enter a contract with another deity that tips them off.
Since all contracts have to first go through the Night Mother, she can decide on whether or not they are passed on to the listener. I always assumed that anything ridiculously out line would not be passed on, otherwise every politician ever would be dead?
It’s a good question on how it works! Her dialogue usually starts with “another person has prayed to the night mother” (at least in Skyrim) so maybe there isn’t a filter of sorts but you’re also right that I feel like a lot more prominent figures should have been assassinated!
Yeah, there totally has to be some check. No contract that would directly endanger the brotherhood goes through. The Night Mother even states that she led the whole betrayal play out on purpose because nobody saw it, so it was fine with her to clean out the guild.
You honestly have some of the most refreshing elder scrolls content out right now. Pretty much everything's been talked about, but you still find these cool niche topics to delve into more.
I really appreciate it! :) there’s a lot of questions and videos that I s tried to find clarification on and couldn’t! So I figured might well make them myself! :)
A little fun fact, The Ghost Ship of Anvil was caused by Bellamont.
When you read his journal in the basement, it talks about how the crew were making fun of him because he was odd.
So, in typical serial killer fashion, Bellamont snuck onto the ship and slaughtered the entire crew, leaving their souls to haunt the vessel.
Although he is a minor character, he was definitely an interesting one.
I've never felt that the concept of the Dark Brotherhood makes sense. A guild of assassins is fine, sure, but the idea that literally anyone can perform a ritual to make someone else a target for any (or no) reason is silly. Bethesda works around this by essentially reserving these assassin contracts for "bad guys" or story-critical moments but it doesn't excuse how the faction actually works in-universe. Not to mention that something similar can be achieved by just paying a bunch of bandits or mercenaries to do the deed.
It would make much more sense if the Dark Brotherhood was much more selective in the contacts they accept or actively punished people summoning them for what amounts to someone being mad for having their sweetroll stolen. Other than the ritual itself being outlawed, there's no consequence to performing it regardless of who does it or for what reason. The utter lack of checks and balances is a real problem with the faction and the only reason the Dark Brotherhood isn't swamped in contracts is because the writers just opt for them to not exist until they're needed to move a plot point along.
The biggest flaw of the brotherhood is that they're so hard on appearing evil. Their name, the black sacrament, the whole visual flair, everything.
If I were the founder of such a guild I would do everything to avoid the whole evil assassin theme. We're the "kitty flower association", the ritual to contact us requires a sweetroll, rose petals and gold coins, and every contract is checked. And we make sure to acquire some form of official papers like the Morag Tong does (even if we fake them)
Yeah the DB should fire the their PR department, it sucks 😁
The dark brotherhood is crazy listening to a corpse, while the far less crazy Bellamont, who also listen to it but *also* to the dismembered head of his own mother is better?
If you're a good character you probably won't murder anyone so you wouldn't stumble upon the dark brotherhood to begin with. Perhaps a quest to purge everybody from the start would be an option since you can be the good guy in skyrim stumbling upon Aventino and be morally gray taking down Grelod, who is quite frankly a terrible person. You can also stumble on the dark brotherhood in skyrim with a radiant meeting with an assassin who got a note on their body, though you can't do much with it.
There are a lot of blurred lines with the dark brotherhood that’s for sure! There are a lot of quests that the player ends up killing innocent people for and the dark brotherhood still visits them as well!
I always felt conflicted when having to perform the purification, wiping out an entire guild. Would have been cool if you could have optionally sided with Mathieu
I agree! If at the very least a lot of the guild mates were very friendly and nice to the player!
Yeah, with high disposition they are a really nice and fun bunch.
Guy went serial killer mode. The story of the night mother is interesting in general too
The night mother is very fascinating with her lore!
AJ, Benoit, Angle, Eddie.
I was thinking he'd go with Rey at 1 and had to delete my original comment praising Eddie as the greatest under 6' wrestler. He had the best mix of in ring skill, charisma, mic skills, and appeal to non wrestling fans.
Love your lore videos you always go for such detail
Appreciate it! Particularly with this one I’ve always wondered if others felt the same 😂
Bard this content is amazing keep it up my guy❤❤
Thank you! :) I really appreciate it! Lots more To come!
@@ABardsBallad I really hope so, I'm sure it's hard to come up with some of these video ideas however you've been doing amazing and they're genuinely interesting
The Night Mother is the one who decides which contracts to accept, and, it seems as though most people don't know how it works. As far as the rite, but... it seems as though it's considered as sacrilegious. Most are good, god-fearing people or... something.
The Dark Brotherhood really ought to be eradicated. The murdering isn't really even the worst part of their antics. It's the fact they are able to impact people's afterlives and send their immortal souls to Sithis, AKA the Void. Neither Aedra nor Daedra. Basically, that is evil of the highest caliber, without question.
It's one thing to murder someone. Another to then override any choices they have made in life as a person and directly dispatch their soul to that kind of purgatorial suffering for all eternity as a kind of destiny hijacking. Murdering and then playing psychopomp to peoples souls to one of the worst possible destinations. At least Daedra usually need you to worship them/mess with dark stuff and thus you kind of get what you were asking for to end up in their unfun houses after expiring. But for many people who actually have a course into pretty chill and good afterlives, only for the Dark Brotherhood to come a calling, that's untolerable levels of evil.
That said, I do wonder what happens if a Dark Brotherhood assassin uses soul trap on a victim? Who then gets dibs on the soul? Sithis, or the Ideal Masters? Sithis is probably much more powerful than the Ideal Masters, but the latter does have more ties to Mundus meaning they might be in closer proximity to snag the soul up.
Teinaava and Ocheeva are the hardest for me to kill... those two are so sweet.... i can't 😩
When are you going to do a complete dark brotherhood questline??
I remember the first time i had to do the purification ritual. I was sad about killing everyone but the kajhiit lol. Was like this every playthrough until i got desensitized to it.
Well
You can hire dark Brotherhood to kill anyone even for no reason, just give them coin and the job will be done
So it is justified
But the way the quest goes is just unexpected and lots of twists
From a quick scroll through the comments haven't seen any discussion of the deity lore behind the Dark Brotherhood and Sithis being one of the primordial forces.
So DB being one of the groups with the most in world evidence for their deity/ies (depending on the Night Mother's exact status in your interpretation) existence and power on Nirn.
So in a way they have to exist if the other religious groups do, to create balance.
Also, not a reflection on my real world morals but I see a lot of them as not evil at all? They are warm and loving and welcoming and accepting? Far nicer than a lot of groups! They worship and perform services they have an affinity for and are in touch with their "god/s" when they do so.
I think its a lot more complex with them than to just say murder is evil or that they do it for money. With Teinaava's Shadowscale quest and Francois Mottiere quests we see there is honour and complex emotions and compromises
Oh your just crazy 🤣🤣
He became the very monster he hated in order to destory it.
Arguably I love the guild and the members, but realistically you are all killers for hire 😮 so in reality he did the world a favour?
But still, poor Lucien. So I will never forgive him 😂
Had this been the guild on Skyrim, I would have sharpened his blade and helped 😂😂
Yeah im fine with eradicating the Dark Brotherhood. Seems pretty reasonable.
Yeah I think I’m cool with it too 😂
I remember one guy telling me how he killed a 9 year old or something. I did not let that slide
I always thought Marie Antoinetta was involved as a traitor of some sort
I mean yeah of course it was justified. That's not even really a question you can debate. The Dark Brotherhood has no regard for who it kills as long as it's not a fellow member.
The thing is that's kind of what I like about it too, it's not some morally grey vigilante society trying to make the world a better place, its an unambiguous evil murder cult only interested in its own gain. I don't think they need to be more than that. Its pretty rare for games to let you join a faction that's so blatantly ethically bankrupt to an almost cartoonish degree.
They're evil, they know it, they love it. Good deeds are accidental and unintentional
Glad you agree! The game sets it up in the way that he’s an antagonist but I think the ultimate question is should he be viewed as a protagonist in this sense!
Yeah, while I generally like it when games don't give perfectly good and evil factions (like how everyone in New Vegas is some shade of gray), adding morally good and evil factions into the mix to fill the whole spectrum, and letting us join them makes it more interesting.
@@ABardsBallad Oh he's definitely an antagonist, because that's entirely based on narrative perspective. An antagonist is defined by their opposition to the protagonist which in this case is the player. The question I think you mean, is could he be viewed as the good guy at the very least relative to who he's dealing with and that would be yes. Anti-hero perhaps?
Tell me you watch nerd of the rings without telling me you watch nerd of the rings lol
😂😂 I love nerd of the rings! A huge inspiration on my thumbnails as you can see!
@@ABardsBallad I like em too. But my fave is probably the broken sword, the red book, or tolkien untangled.
100% justified, no wrong reasons.
I'm not saying he was right or wrong, I'm just saying i understand
Oh yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed killing the dark brotherhood in Skyrim. I just settle for killing LaChance in Oblivion.
Me too! That was the first choice I made in Skyrim 😂
A little fun fact, The Ghost Ship of Anvil was caused by Bellamont.
When you read his journal in the basement, it talks about how the crew were making fun of him because he was odd.
So, in typical serial killer fashion, Bellamont snuck onto the ship and slaughtered the entire crew, leaving their souls to haunt the vessel.
Although he is a minor character, he was definitely an interesting one.