Homer, Odyssey a1-27 (spoken in reconstructed ancient Greek pronunciation)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2014
- text start: 00:51
text end: 04:14
-- English
Tell me, O Muse, of the man of many devices, who wandered full many ways after he had sacked the sacred citadel of Troy. Many were the men whose cities he saw and whose mind he learned, aye, and many the woes he suffered in his heart upon the sea, seeking to win his own life and the return of his comrades. Yet even so he saved not his comrades, though he desired it sore, for through their own blind folly they perished-fools, who devoured the kine of Helios Hyperion; but he took from them the day of their returning. Of these things, goddess, daughter of Zeus, beginning where thou wilt, tell thou even unto us.
Now all the rest, as many as had escaped sheer destruction, were at home, safe from both war and sea, but Odysseus alone, filled with longing for his return and for his wife, did the queenly nymph Calypso, that bright goddess, keep back in her hollow caves, yearning that he should be her husband. But when, as the seasons revolved, the year came in which the gods had ordained that he should return home to Ithaca, not even there was he free from toils, even among his own folk. And all the gods pitied him save Poseidon; but he continued to rage unceasingly against godlike Odysseus until at length he reached his own land. Howbeit Poseidon had gone among the far-off Ethiopians-the Ethiopians who dwell sundered in twain, the farthermost of men, some where Hyperion sets and some where he rises, there to receive a hecatomb of bulls and rams, and there he was taking his joy, sitting at the feast; but the other gods were gathered together in the halls of Olympian Zeus.
-- Italian
Musa, quell'uom di multiforme ingegno Dimmi, che molto errò, poich'ebbe a terra Gittate d'Ilïòn le sacre torri; Che città vide molte, e delle genti L'indol conobbe; che sovr'esso il mare Molti dentro del cor sofferse affanni, Mentre a guardar la cara vita intende, E i suoi compagni a ricondur: ma indarno Ricondur desïava i suoi compagni, Ché delle colpe lor tutti periro. Stolti! che osaro vïolare i sacri Al Sole Iperïon candidi buoi Con empio dente, ed irritâro il nume, Che del ritorno il dì lor non addusse. Deh! parte almen di sì ammirande cose
Narra anco a noi, di Giove figlia e diva.
Già tutti i Greci, che la nera Parca Rapiti non avea, ne' loro alberghi
Fuor dell'arme sedeano e fuor dell'onde; Sol dal suo regno e dalla casta donna Rimanea lungi Ulisse: il ritenea Nel cavo sen di solitarie grotte La bella venerabile Calipso, Che unirsi a lui di maritali nodi
Bramava pur, ninfa quantunque e diva. E poiché giunse al fin, volvendo gli anni, La destinata dagli dèi stagione Del suo ritorno, in Itaca, novelle Tra i fidi amici ancor pene durava. Tutti pietà ne risentìan gli eterni, Salvo Nettuno, in cui l'antico sdegno Prima non si stancò, che alla sua terra Venuto fosse il pellegrino illustre.
Ma del mondo ai confini e alla remota Gente degli Etïòpi (in duo divisa, Ver cui quinci il sorgente ed il cadente Sole gli obbliqui rai quindi saetta) Nettun condotto a un ecatombe s'era Di pingui tori e di montoni; ed ivi Rallegrava i pensieri, a mensa assiso. In questo mezzo gli altri dèi raccolti Nella gran reggia dell'olimpio Giove
Stavansi.
-- Deutsch
Sage mir, Muse, die Taten des viel sich wendenden Mannes,
Welcher so viel geirrt, nach der heiligen Troia Zerstörung,
Vieler Menschen Städte gesehn, und Sitte gelernt hat,
Und auf dem Meere so viel' unnennbare Leiden erduldet,
Seine Seele zu retten, und seiner Freunde Zurückkunft.
Aber die Freunde rettet' er nicht, wie eifrig er strebte,
Denn sie bereiteten selbst durch Missetat ihr Verderben:
Toren! welche die Rinder des hohen Sonnenbeherrschers
Schlachteten; siehe, der Gott nahm ihnen den Tag der Zurückkunft,
Sage hievon auch uns ein weniges, Tochter Kronions.
Alle die andern, so viel dem verderbenden Schicksal entflohen,
Waren jetzo daheim, dem Krieg' entflohn und dem Meere:
Ihn allein, der so herzlich zur Heimat und Gattin sich sehnte,
Hielt die unsterbliche Nymphe, die hehre Göttin Kalypso,
In der gewölbeten Grotte, und wünschte sich ihn zum Gemahle.
Selbst da das Jahr nun kam im kreisenden Laufe der Zeiten,
Da ihm die Götter bestimmt, gen Ithaka wiederzukehren;
Hatte der Held noch nicht vollendet die müdende Laufbahn,
Auch bei den Seinigen nicht. Es jammerte seiner die Götter;
Nur Poseidon zürnte dem göttergleichen Odysseus
Unablässig, bevor er sein Vaterland wieder erreichte.
Dieser war jetzo fern zu den Aithiopen gegangen;
Aithiopen, die zwiefach geteilt sind, die äußersten Menschen,
Gegen den Untergang der Sonnen, und gegen den Aufgang:
Welche die Hekatombe der Stier' und Widder ihm brachten.
Allda saß er, des Mahls sich freuend. Die übrigen Götter
Waren alle in Zeus' des Olympiers Hause versammelt.
the whole 1st rhapsody at ancientgreek.eu/audiobooks/odyssey-01.html (without music)
Nice to hear :-) Thanks
Why doesn't the poem seem to rhyme in this performance? Don't get me wrong, the performance is beautiful, but I thought the whole point of the reconstructed pronunciation was because without it the poetic meter would be off. I do not know any ancient greek, but I am assuming even a non-greek should hear the rhyme at the end of every verse. This just sounds like someone talking in prose, not in rhyming poetry.
Well, rhyming is not a fitting word for it. This metre, the hexameter has, if I recall it well, 32 or 33 different variations. First of all the more long syllables the less clear is the perceivable regularity of the verse. Then you have the caesuras, sometimes more of them in one line, which interrupt the expected flow of text.
People are used to a mechanical reading since schools insist on a strict rhythmic element so that students get the idea, but this is neither an exact nor a productive kind of knowledge when one tries to (kind of) perform the text.
@@Podium-arts I read your comment about 3 times slowly and didn't understand what you said. Whether something rhymes or not is dependent on the last 1-3 syllables in a verse. What you said seemed to be about the middle of the verse?
I'm simply saying that if you read each verse in a consistent style with a clear stopping point, you should hear a rhyme. I did not hear a rhyme. I hope you are not calling this a mechanical reading because the whole point of rhyming poetry is to produce the rhyming sound at the end of each verse.
Yes but rhyming didn't exist at that time, only sporadically. The rhythmic effect was audible only as long against short syllables.
I have studied Ancient Greek for about 20 years, and this is the best vocal rendition of Homer I have ever heard.
He makes all the distinctions felt, he represents digammas and iota subscripts, he expresses the meter of the hexameters, he distinguishes aspirated dentals, labials, and palatals from their non-aspirated counterparts.
He does it all in a stately pace and tone that enables the listener to understand the text as he hears it.
And to top it all off, it's easy to imagine the man to whom this voice belongs as the bearded blind bard himself!
εὐχαριστῶ!
Thank you so much, Lionel. It's such a motivation for me/us to realise that there are people out there who can discern details under the "skin" of things. :-)
It's not even remotely close. It's crap. We are taught ancient greek in school. For example d is pronounced as English d here but it should be delta.
@@DTalesMatter I guess you're one of those (/us?), Greeks, that weren't ever taught in school that the/our Greek language was never pronounced the same as in antiquity.
@@Michael5iLVEr And was pronounced as above? Meaning as if it was English? Nice joke.
@@DTalesMatter I wasn't at all joking. And the above example has no relation to English.
Not only is this video incredibly well done, this is the greatest comment section I've ever seen on a TH-cam video. Truly, a linguist's dream.
Thanks JP :-)
Regarding the comment section, yes, there's a lot of interesting stuff, mixed with some trash as well :-D
Seriously, is the entire text in the works? There should be a Patreon or crowd funding campaign to complete it.
@Mom Sheriff I believe he means the text read in this manner. I have never heard anyone else pronounce Ancient Greek thus. It sounds truly special.
@Mom Sheriff Yes I know and that's nice, but I've never heard anyone pronounce Ancient Greek properly, and Iived in Greece for 10 years. Most of the people I asked didn't even know that it used to be 'beta' and not 'vita', for example.
@Mom Sheriff What is your point...? Adam just said that the channel should record the rest of the work... Are you going to do it for us? Is your grandpa?
@Mom Sheriff The rest by this same channel or by someone else? If it's by someone else, I very much doubt it would be this high-quality.
@Adam Mendoza it absolutely should.
He is using the restored pronunciation of Ancient Greek, the accepted form which unfortunately not many use for some unknown reasons. The stops are aspirated, as they should be. The iota subscript is pronounced, as it should be. Greeks today would say no, but that is because they learned it another way. Beta is beta, not veta. And a lot of other changes but too numerous. Also remember, even in Ancient times there were many dialects. Just look at Sappho or Herodotus. So the sounds could be pronounced numerous ways. We just have to accept what we hear, if we can understand at all. Great video and great pronunciation. Thank you for sticking with the classical restored pronunciation. I do have to admit sometimes though the un-aspirated stops are better in certain words where it is really hard for an English speaker to say. Such words starting with: φθ- for example.
+The Didaskalon Not all Greeks, I have embraced the richness of Archaic Greek sounds for a few years and love it!
+The Didaskalon 1)A Greek who learned it another way according to you, wants to inform you that your name is all wrong. The neuter noun "didaskalon" simply doesn't exist.. If you want to learn or teach the language you have to avoid basic mistakes! The teaching place is named "The didaskaleion" Το διδασκαλειον.2)If Βητα is Beta and not Veeta, then, which is the Greek symbol for the sound V?
+jim kiriakopoulos Answering your 2) comment.
The V sound is not attested in ancient Greek. The closest equivalent is the digamma. It seems though, that in the Doric dialect of Creta this contemporary V-sound may have existed (in some words at least), as in words in other dialects containing the digamma, the Cretans wrote a B. I also don't know from which period these Cretan words come.
+Podium-Arts. How then, will you pronounce the Latin word Veneti in the Attic dialect since digamma doesn't exist any more? It is definitely Βενέτι because there is no other way. If again, you want to bring it back to Latin, according to this theory, it will be Beneti. What do you have to say about this?
+jim kiriakopoulos what about ου to reproduce the V sound in Latin? There is some debate about the pronunciation of V in Latin too, but it is quite likely that the reconstructed pronunciation (i.e. the non ecclesiastic one), where V is pronounced U, had been in use at some point and should be considered the "pure" Latin, as opposed to the "contaminated" (because of the contact with other languages in the provinces) version of it.
The more I listen to this performance, the more I appreciate it. For at least 2700 years, Homer's epic poems have been recognized for their craftsmanship and beauty. The lines were carefully put together to fit a dactylic rhythm that would sound like music to the ear. When spoken Greek lost the distinction between long and short syllables (during the Koine period), the musical rhythm was lost. Generations since then recognized that ancients had admired the poem's beauty, but were unable to hear all that beauty for themselves.
In the past several centuries, Ancient Greek has been pronounced as Modern Greek or in a number of regional "Erasmian" pronunciations--which end up being adapted to sound exactly like whatever the local language is (American English, Spanish, German, etc.). None of these attempt to reconstruct the syllable length distinction.
When I listen closely to this reading, I can feel the rhythm of "long-short-short long-short-short" come back to life. (Sometimes a "long-short-short" will be replaced by "long-long"--often for intentional poetic effect.)
We are hearing the restored full effect of the poet's craft--which has not been experienced by human ears since the end of the classical period.
Am I missing something here? Isn't a lot of modern poetry--including Modern Greek poetry--written in dactylic meter?
True Greek
"Dactylic meter" doesn't mean the same thing for classical Greek or Latin poetry as it means for modern western poetry. In modern poetry, we're talking about patterns of stressed and non-stressed syllables. Meter in classical Greek was made up of short syllables and long syllables--where long syllables take about twice as much time as short syllables. This is like quarter notes and half notes in music.
Homer wrote in dactylic hexameter. Each line has six metrical feet. The first five are typically dactylic, where each has a long syllable followed by two short syllables. The last foot has two syllables, the first of which is long.
A syllable is long if it contains a long vowel sound or ends in a consonant. The vowels ε and ο are always short. The vowels η and ω are always long. The vowels α, ι, υ will be long or short depending on the word. To make it easier to pronounce, they're sometimes marked with a macron if they're long: ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ. Two vowels together in a syllable are almost always long, but αι or οι at the end of a word can be counted short if needed. This happens with "μοι" in the first line.
It's easier if I show an example. I'll put the symbols < > around a syllable to say that it is long and lasts twice as much time as the others. Note how the first 5 feet of line 1 of the Odyssey follow the pattern " short short." Watch for a long vowel, two vowels or an ending consonant in every long syllable.
1. δρα μοι
2. νε πε
3. σα πο
4. ρο πο
5. μα λα
6. λα
Notice that if there's only one consonant between vowels, the consonant gets grouped with the following vowel--even if the following vowel is part of another word. (See foot 5 above.)
It's possible for any of the six metrical feet to be replaced with a spondee, which is two long syllables. This happens in feet 1, 2 and 6 of the second line.
Also, when one word ends with a vowel and the next begins with a vowel, the two often get combined into a single syllable. This happens a bit less often in Homer than other classical Greek poetry, because an unwritten digamma--sounding like an English "w"--is sometimes between the vowels. However, it does happen in foot 1 of line 2 below.
1.
2.
3. σ-ι ε
4. πτο λι
5. ρο ν-ε
6.
There's some more complexity to it, but that's the basic story.
Layne Saltern Good summary of how classical meter works. There's one minor clarification I'd like to make. You have combined the "-θη ἐ-" of πλάγχθη ἐπεὶ into a single long syllable. The common practice here is pronounce "-θη ἐ-" as 2 short syllables. The technical name for this is "epic correption." This is a form of hiatus where a long ending vowel becomes short before a word beginning with a vowel. There are several examples of this in Homer.
Eppy Glottis I was thinking of prodelision, but now that you mention it, correption is a better fit. The wikipedia page on correption even uses that line as an example :). There are some lines where correption is the only thing that can make the meter work, for example the last two feet of line 26: οἱ δὲ δὴ ἄλλοι (long short short long-long). Prodelision would give us long short long-long, which dactylic hexameter doesn't allow.
Eppy Glottis it's a bit tricky to pronounce this case of correption in such a way that it doesn't disturb the metre and makes an audible difference of the phonemes [η] & [ε] that follow each other as well; in this place there's one more difficulty, because after πλάγχθη a new clause is beginning, which practically means a short pause between the relative phonemes - at least if one doesn't want to narrate like a train, which I don't like or believe is the way to be done...
Ioannis, this is one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard. I am currently teaching myself Homeric Greek and yours is the only recording which seems to pronounce the words in accordance with what the academics now, mostly, recognize as the authentic pronunciation, including use of aspirated stops, pitch accent and the digamma. What is even more remarkable, however, is that you have managed to add your own artistic skills to the reading to bring it alive. It makes me almost feel I am back in the time of Homer.
I know it is a great effort and will take a lot of time, but please complete a full recording of the Iliad and the Odyssey. It would be a great gift to art as well as for fans of Ancient Greek - I would buy copies and listen to them in the car, in my room, on the beach...
Thank you Vladimir, I'm happy you like it :-)
The complete Iliad is been prepared. I don't have a release date yet, as another work has to be published first.
Stay tuned ;-)
Get on with it! :)
It would be amazing. I'm waiting too.
@@Podium-arts
What is the name from this music?
Löwe Juda it is from a CD called "Odyssey" by Vangelis Mertzanis (google him or find him on Facebook)
Δάκρυσα από συγκίνηση!!! Η γλώσσα μου είναι η ζωή και πνοή μου!!!!
Σκούπισε τα δάκρυά σου Στέλιο. Η γλώσσα μας είναι όντως ζωή, μα αν την προφέρεις (σε φυσιολογικούς ρυθμούς) κατ'αυτόν τον τρόπο... δεν θα σου μείνει πνοή.
@@user-dg9sr2fe6y έγραψες... Το σκότωσε ο τύπος... Θεωρώ ότι είναι άλλη μια προσπάθεια εξόντωσης της ελληνικής γλώσσας..
This is spellbinding: there's magic in those lines of the poem, and in the voice as well. I'm sure I'll be back to listen to it again.
+Grazina Ajana Szewczyk Thanks!
Your reconstrunction possesses the authentic and plausible sound that others lack. Namely, the fact that it can be imagined to have been spoken in real life, not being overly artificial or forced.
Thanks for taking us back to 800 B.C.!
Thanks A.C.R., indeed, since most of the phonetic elements of the language are known, my aim has been (and is) to focus on the rendition in a "realistic" manner. The language and its dialects have been really spoken by humans, so, however scarce the information on actual speech might be, there are common things rooted deeply in human nature and expression -as well as others, particular to race, period, nation or culture- that spread some light into the question of reconstructing an ancient language.
It is an interesting quest!
Thanks for commenting :-)
Yes, to not consider this fact of its having been really spoken in time is, contrary to what one would think, absent from other endeavors to reconstruct pronunciation; or at least it seems that way. Thanks for the vid :]
This absence has been a powerful motivator ...
Congrats to the person who travelled to the past in order to record Homer reading.
And imagine! there was no Physics involved! Thanks for listening :-)
The most epic language ever.
:-) isn't it?
Thanks for listening
Very punny.
;-)
It doesn't hurt if the narrator's voice sounds like Homer himself.
When did you get the chance to hear Homer recite this? Rather jealous, if that is the case.
Extraordinarily magnificent! Its been a while since Ive listened to this and, as ever, Ioannis sounds like he's just been for a quick trip back to ancient Greece. Keep up this amazing work my friend; your talent is awe inspiring. I always feel spiritually uplifted after hearing your recordings. Thank you.
It just sounds sooooo beautiful. One of the most beautiful languages I’ve ever heard.
Continuing this project would be a great gift to the world.
That's for sure and my intention :-) Thanks for listening & commenting!
That's so wonderful I feel tears in my eyes...
I think this is the best thing I have ever found on youtube!!! I got shivers just listening to the first line!
Splendid! I echo Vladimir Vostok's request from below and look forward to your publication of both The Odyssey and The Iliad. Thank you for this bit.
THIS IS BLOODY AMAZING
I think this is the best video I’ve ever seen on TH-cam... amazing!!! I’d love more!!!
Thanks Sojeet :-) More is uploaded with a certain frequency (but without any music)
amazing work!! love the way the narrator "sang" the words, it felt very... alive. I would also like to have an entire audiobook with both the entire poems. hope that comes soon :)
Yes, so would I! This is so much better than straight reading, and the text with English subtitles really gets a non-Greek speaker involved.
PLEASE!
Absolutely enchanting! thank you so much. The first time I hear somebody respecting the value of ancient greek letters (especially the aspirated consonants).
thanks for your fine words :-)
What a wonderful language. Even though I do not understand it, it is woven into the very fabric of European culture and the places and heroes (of thought and action) that are connected to it are instantly recognizable to any European. As a German, when I hear names such as "Hyperion" and "Calypso" they immediately conjure up an intimate landscape of ideas and places that feel very real even though I have only visited them on the wings of Homers imagination. Thank you for creating this.
well said!
What a lovely comment. I have studied German (I am a bit out of practice, that's why I don't reply to you in that language) and the syntax and the way of constructing sentences is so close to ancient Greek... If you have some background in ancient Greek and then you read a German text, everything "clicks" - it's uncanny!
Absolutely awesome.
I would pay to have a recording + simultaneous text of you reading the entire Illiad or Odyssey this way.
Please keep up the good work, and I was surprised to see that you were Greek and using the reconstructed pronunciation. Good on you.
gurufabbes1
thank you for your appreciation :-)
When time allows I'll come back with audiobook and video recordings, I've been busy with the performance of Iliad-A lately. Actually it is my plan to release Homer's work when it'll be ready for it.
Regarding the "other", yes, there are some Greeks that can read and understand that using a reconstructed pronunciation is closer than the modern one, but somehow it's not common and not peacticed at all (for the moment), which I hope to help change, for as much as it lies within my power.
Great, I look forward to more of your work. I subscribed to your channel. Feel free to like this page on facebook for the ancient greek language: facebook.com/pages/Ancient-Greek-Language/108467045860960
I think the author may have taken notice.
gurufabbes1 how could I ever resist such a page?
Podium-Arts As you may have seen, the members of the page liked it very much and have shared it along.
gurufabbes1 very effective page, indeed :-D
As a greek I can easily understand the pronunciation after one verse, it isn't hard at all.
Ἐπιτέλους καὶ κάποιος ρεαλιστής :-)
Io Tsi Ένας θεός ξέρει πως καταλαβαίνει κανείς αυτό το βίντεο χωρίς την βοήθεια του κειμένου.
Γιατί, καταλαβαίνει πλέον κανεὶς τὸ γραπτὸ χωρὶς λεξικό;
βεβαια αυτος δεν παιζει να ταν ελληνας
@Basil II of Macedon the Vardaskan slayerσε ποιο λεπτο αν μπορεις
Μπράβο!
Ειδικός δεν είμαι,πλην όμως πιστεύω καθαρά από διαίσθηση,ότι η προφορά των αρχαίων δεν απέχει πολύ από αυτό που άκουσα.
Κλείνοντας να πω,ότι το αστείο σε ορισμένα σχόλια,είναι πως κάποιοι πιστεύουν ότι οι Αρχαίοι Έλληνες ήταν υποχρεωμένοι να μιλάνε όπως εμείς σήμερα!!!
Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὰ θετικά σου σχόλια. Ἀκριβῶς καὶ δυστυχῶς ἡ δοξασία τῶν πολλῶν σήμερα εἶναι ἡ ἀντίθετη «λογική» τοῦ «ἀφοῦ ἐμεῖς εἴμαστε οἱ Ἕλληνες, οἱ παλαιότεροι προφέρουν ὅπως ἐμεῖς» καὶ ὄχι πὼς «αὐτὸ ποὺ λέμε ἐμεῖς εἶναι ἐξέλιξις τῆς προφορᾶς τῶν παλαιοτέρων».
Τώρα, τὰ ἠχογραφήματά μου εἶναι προσπάθεια ἐφαρμογῆς τῶν περιγραφῶν τῆς προφορᾶς ἀπὸ τοὺς «τότε», ποὺ τὴν ὁμιλοῦσαν καὶ τὴν περιέγραφαν στοὺς συγχρόνους των. Τί ἄλλο μπορεῖ νὰ κάνει κανείς;
@Truth prevails Ὅ,τι ἀκοῦς ἐδῶ εἶναι καταγεγραμμένο ἀπὸ Ἕλληνες. Τὸ τί μοῦ τσαμπουνᾷς ἐσὺ γιὰ «Δυτικοὺς» καὶ ἄλλες οὐφολογίες ποὺ ἅπτονται πολιτικο-θρησκευτικῶν ζητημάτων δὲν ἀφορᾷ τὸ ἀντικείμενό μου. Ἂν πάλι θεωρῇς τὸ Γ ὡς G βαρβαρισμόν, μάθε ὅτι π.χ. οἱ Ἄραβες τὰ ἔχουν καὶ τὰ δύο. Μήπως καὶ τὰ δικά μας σύγχρονα Β,Γ,Δ ἦλθαν ἀπὸ ἐκεῖ; ;-) Βρὲς τίποτε ἀρχαῖες ἐπιγραφές καὶ πρόσεξε πόσες πολλὲς φορὲς τὸ Γ ἀντικαθίσταται ἀπὸ Κ, τὸ Δ ἀπὸ Τ καὶ τὸ Β ἀπὸ Π καὶ βγάλε τὰ συμπεράσματά σου.
Ἂν πάλι σὲ ἐνοχλῇ ἡ ἀλήθεια λυποῦμαι. Ἕνας ἐχέφρων ἄνθρωπος, γιὰ τέτοιος μοῦ μοιάζεις, βασίζεται σὲ στοιχεῖα κι ὄχι σὲ συνήθειες 2-3 χιλιάδων ἐτῶν κατόπιν ἑορτῆς.
@@Podium-arts είμαι Έλληνας και ζηλεύω τον τρόπο που γράφεις και μιλάς την ελληνικήν γλώσσαν. Μακάρι να είχα ασχοληθεί (και εγώ και όλοι οι Έλληνες) τόσο όσο εσύ ώστε να γράφω και να μιλάω έτσι. Θαυμάζω τη δουλειά σου συνέχισε σε παρακαλώ! Καλή δύναμη !
Fella like Homer came to us all and read his great Odyssea... Thank you, thank you so much for this experience!
Glad you enjoyed it!
What a great combination of scholarship and artistic talent! Very inspiring for a beginner in ancient Greek.
Thank you very much Majeed :-) Fine to hear that it helps.
Not reading translation, but following greek text and enjoying this touch with ancient world. Pretty amazing feel.
a magnificently powerful presentation, thank you.
+jampumper Thanks top!
Educated as a scientist I know neither modern nor ancient Greek. Anyway, I am touched by this truly artistic presentation. While listening to the words I follow the Greek letters, which I know from old-school mathematics. Doing so, the words, however alien to me, gain meaning helped by the given translation and my knowledge of the story. I feel as if being immersed into that ancient time.
Thanks Kurt for your poetic description of your feelings. I'm happy to read that my work can aesthetically enhance your reception of this little part of the story.
Many many thanks to have come me back to that hera.
Hearing that helps me to shut down the noise from the world (at least for a bit).
It's like a psychedelics experience
Nice that it can be of use
This is excellent, I know enough of the phonetics of what the reconstructed pronunciation requires and this was just a pleasure to listen.
Thank you; indeed I'm trying to stick to the "rules", as far as they are known... It is a lot of work, sure.
ِAlthough my Greek knowledge is little, I sit and listen and want to cry. It is so beautiful that it hurts me so much to listen to it.
:-) thanks Nathan, though I didn't intend to sadden anyone, the story itself has a lot of tragic elements.
Spine chilling. Beautiful.
+RodCornholio Thank you :-)
That is an absolutely terrific vid? Please make more of such videos.
Sounds *exactly* like the voice in "Ori and the Blind Forest."
+Max LaFave :-D
"Ori"in Greek means mountains
Υπέροχη ερμηνειά και εκπληκτική μουσική!
Μέχρι πρότινος ήμουν αντίθετος με την επιστημονική προφορά. Ως μαθητής λυκείου σε Ελληνικό σχολείο, ούτε που μας αναφέρουν για την αρχαία προφορά. Διαβάζουμε Θουκυδίδη και Ξενοφώντα με την νεοελληνική προφορά και αν ακούσουμε κάτι τέτοιο (σαν αυτήν την αφήγηση), τρέχει η γλώσσα μας ροδάνι και μπορεί να ξεστομίσουμε οτιδήποτε. Κι όλο αυτό, επειδή δεν ξέρουμε.
Όπως και να'χει, είμαι πεπεισμένος τώρα πια για την αρχαιοελληνική προφορά. Κι από την άλλη, σου δίνει μια άλλη αίσθηση. Κάτι αλλιώτικο, όχι τόσο μουντό όπως ο δυναμικός τονισμός της Νέας. Όμως όποτε πάω να προφέρω κάποιο χωρίο με αυτήν την προφορά, ή μου βγαίνουν τα πνευμόνια, ή δεν βγάζω άκρη για τι μιλά. Και επίσης, δυσκολεύομαι να παρακολουθήσω κάποιον που μιλάει κατ' αυτόν τον τρόπο.
Τέλος πάντων, θα συνεχίσω να εξασκούμαι και θα δω και τα άλλα βίντεό σου. Συνέχισε την καλή δουλειά!
Εὐχαριστῶ Μιχάλη :-)
Πρὶν δοκιμάσῃς νὰ μιλήσῃς μὲ τὴν ἀνασυντεθειμένη προφορά, καλὸ εἶναι νὰ μάθῃς καὶ νὰ προπονηθῇς στοὺς φθόγγους ποὺ διαφέρουν καὶ τὶς ἄλλες ἰδιαιτερότητές της.
Πρόσεξε ἐπίσης τὴν σύνταξι τῶν λέξεων, δηλ. πρακτικὰ ποιές ταιριάζουν μὲ ποιές μέσα στὴν πρότασι καὶ τὴν κάθε παράγραφο. Στὴν οὐσία αὐτὴ (ἡ σύνταξις) δὲν διαφέρει ἀπὸ τὴν νέα Ἑλληνική. Μόνο ποὺ ἡ ἀρχαία ἔχει καὶ τὰ λεγόμενα «μόρια» ποὺ ἴσως σὲ δυσκολεύουν ἀκόμη.
Ἂν ὅπως λὲς «σοῦ βγαίνουν τὰ πνευμόνια» ἔγκειται κυρίως στὰ μακρὰ φωνήεντα καὶ συλλαβές, ποὺ πρέπει νὰ διατηρήσουν τὴν διάρκειά τους. Μὲ λίγη προπόνησι ομως πολλά γίνονται.
Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὸ σχόλιό σου!
Podium-Arts Εγώ ευχαριστώ για την ταχυτάτη σου απάντηση και για τις συμβουλές σου τις οποίες θα ακολουθήσω πιστά. Ιδιαιτέρως τώρα που το καλοκαίρι έχω μπόλικο χρόνο, θα "στρωθώ" να μελετήσω και ελπίζω την ερχόμενη χρονιά να κορυφώσω τον βαθμό μου. Τα βίντεό σου με εμπνέουν πάρα πολύ και μου "φουντώνουν" περισσότερο την αγάπη μου για την πρόγονο γλώσσα μας.
Να'σαι καλά και καλό καλοκαίρι!
Καλὴ μελέτη καὶ καλὸ καλοκαίρι!
I heard a rumor that a sample from the Iliad might be coming soon. I hope so. Your recordings are AWESOME! They not only sound great. The pronunciation accurately matches the latest phonological research regarding how Greek must have sounded during the classical period. (You already know this, of course. I'm just affirming it.)
There are very few recordings that make use of everything we know today about classical Greek phonology. (Erasmian pronunciation is outdated and doesn't count.) Most of the few recordings that do exist were made by scholars who sometimes aren't the most talented voice actors. You've got both things going for you: accuracy and great dramatic performance.
You are the real deal.
Layne Saltern
Wow, my cheeks are getting red… Thanks for your appreciation :-)
I'm now working again on Iliad-A but called some specialists around as well. Working all alone is not the most efficient way for producing a major work, that also needs a more "compact" but multilevel approach than I did until now. Though I've recorded the whole Iliad three times in total, I've not been satisfied with it yet. But it goes faster than I thought. I expect to present the 1st rhapsody over a month at the University of Athens and am working towards a staged recital, or a sort of theatrical production of it as well.
I assure you that it is much work, but well worth the effort. Maybe even the non-specialist Greeks will reconsider their (unsupported) views of identification of ancient and modern pronunciation :-D And there's enough proof for my approach, especially within the ancient-Gr texts which, alas, are only known to specialists. This sort of human beings shun the "mainstream" and are, as usual, situated in the more obscure corners of relevant research. I suspect that they'll also enjoy a chance to come out to light from time to time...
Thank you again.
Συγχαρητήρια γι αυτή την επίπονη και δημιουργική προσπάθειά σας . Αν έχω Α τάξη Γυμνασίου εφέτος ,θα αποτελέσει μια καλή αφόρμηση το έργο σας για να ξεκινήσω την Οδύσσεια. Σας ευχαριστώ και πάλι.
Σέ ποιό γυμνάσιο είσαι; γιά νά ξέρω μήν καί τύχει νά έρθουν τά παιδιά μού.
κα. Λίγδα νὰ τὰ χαίρεστε, ἀλλὰ ἐλπίζω νὰ μὴν γίνουν τόσο στενοκέφαλα ὥστε νὰ ἐθελοτυφλοῦν μπροστὰ στὶς περιγραφὲς τῶν ἰδίων τῶν ἀρχαίων· ἢ μήπως εἶστε ἀπὸ ἐκείνους ποὺ μᾶλλον δὲν ξέρουν νὰ διαβάσουν - ἢ ἀκόμη χειρότερα δὲν θέλουν;
Καλὴ λευτεριά!
I keep coming back to this.
Thanks Daniel :-)
I am German and learned modern Greek as an adult. This is so beautiful and I was surprised how much I could actually understand.
yes, it's not impossible to understand it with knowledge of modern Greek, although the pronunciation sounds strange to most Greeks today
@@Podium-arts as a German to me it sounds as if an ancient Bavarian speaks Greek. The word θύρα just sounded exactly like the German word Tür and all the aspirated vowels are so familiar to a German native speaker.
I felt like I could touch the common root of both languages.
What's funny, I am also fluent in Italian and I feel like Greek and German have more in common than Italian and German or Italian and Greek,which is weird, if you think of the geographics.
Dear Helga, many people find that this pronunciation sounds "German" or "Nordic" and sometimes even "Japanese" or "Chinese" and everything in between. Funny that yesterday someone kept calling me "Fritz", unhappy as he is that this pronunciation doesn't sound "Greek" to him, but facts are facts if one wants to follow the ancient descriptions of the Greeks themselves this is how it (more or less) sounds. I believe that Greek (and Italian) got rid of the H's because of dialectic influence, since the ancient Aeolic and Ioanian spoken in today's Turkey were both avoiding the H's and Latin is related more to the Aeolian dialect. I would call it a kind of "orientalism", but all oriental nearby languages just keep their H's... So it is some peculiarity of sorts. But as philologists and linguists suggest, German and Greek (and almost all European languages) belong to the same family, whatever characteristics any one of them kept in common with the others. There is absolutely some good reason for this; the disagreement is on how this did happen, as people try to distill some added value for getting the glory that belongs to parenting this family :-D But I wouldn't be surprised if there has been more happening in ancient times than we all know. Julius Caesar for example wrote that certain regions in today's Switzerland spoke Greek or, as I remember from about 10-15 years ago, there has been an article in "Der Spiegel" about some artefacts (or even a whole Minoan ship? I don't remember well) buried in the sands of a North-Western German beach which some people stumbled upon by accident... Who knows?
Ευχαριστώ για τα καλά σου λόγια :-)
This is incredible, I just finished reading the E.V. Rieu English translation and it was beautiful but hearing it recited closer to how it would have been told thousands of years ago gives me goosebumps
same feeling here; the older sounds have something direct, going to the bone; but I'm talking about trying to reconstruct this older language form.
Thanks for listening :-)
May God bless the Greek language...the oldest surviving classical language...the lingua franca of the ancient world...once spoken from Spain to India...the language of science and arts, philosophy and literature...the language of the Holy Bible... the language that started the Islamic Golden Age and the European Renaissance...such greatness...
Nawal Mridulya thank you so much for your kind words :-)
Beautiful thanks, had to memorize this in school.
Emozionante! Grazie...
Amazing pronuncation of the Ancient Greek, thank you!
thanks MB :-)
Such mellifluous euphony!
I especially love that you've included the digamma (the /w/) in your pronunciation, even if not in the text.
SeadogDriftwood thank you for your appreciation!
I didn't write the digamma, mainly because the surviving (late) text doesn't include it, but as I understand that you know, it must have been there when recited.
Podium-Arts I'm wondering which words you put the digamma in and how you did it. I'm assuming you did: ϝἴδεν, ϝἄστεα, Διϝός, ϝοἴκοι, ϝἔτος, ϝοἶκόνδε. But I was wondering about δῖα: do you think of it as διϝια or δῖϝα? And what about Ζηνὸς?
Brian McFadden I'm taking it as δίϝα and Ζηνός. I've set up a list of words containing the ϝ, but I've got no time to finish it yet, mainly because of moving to Athens and preparing a presentation (of the complete Iliad-A at a rather important place), that takes intense work. When I'm hopefully settled I'll come back to it.
Interesting. I've seen one book note it as δίϝια but this Indo-European scholar never claims it has digamma ever. Not sure if you've ever seen her work:
www.indogermanistik.uni-freiburg.de/seminar/pers/tichy/pub.html
I know her by name and read some excerpts some time ago. They usually do nice work, but I can't place δίϝια. I suppose it's a (mis?)take for the iota of the word been often macron.
+Αιγλήτης Μάνος
It is a reconstructed version
Super late to this video, but thank you for this. I’m learning Greek now and this threw me for a loop because modern Greek doesn’t have all of these accents and stops like this. Very beautiful! Thank you!
Thanks for listening and your comment :-) modern Greek doesn't write the accents any more, but I must say that they mostly coincide with the ones of the ancient language. The greatest difference is the elimination of the long vowel duration, which has led to all the other changes in pronunciation, word forms and syntax.
Podium-Arts I think what confused me was the elongation of the vowels that changed the pronunciation a bit. Glad to know that modern Greek is similar to Ancient Greek. I’m listening to more of your videos! Thank you!
Thank you for this.
So Zeus is pronounced like a D as in Deus?
There's an S in front of the D though, which is becoming a Z because it gets voiced (exactly because of the following voiced D).
who's Thomas?
Τίντουτπάλ;
No, it was pronounced exactly as "Z" in Italian:
Dzeus
More likely pronounced as zevs or ssevs
Wow i love how this language sounds (i'm a korean) it sounds epic but beautiful, feels almost like it's a song
Thanks my friend :-)
I never thought of that until you said it. It does sound rhythmic like a song would be.
Μπορεί να ακουγόταν έτσι, μπορεί και όχι - αμφιβάλω βέβαια γιατί βαρβαρίζει πολύ. Αν όμως όντως είναι αυτή η προφορά, να λέμε ευτυχώς που εξελίχθηκε σε αυτό που είναι σήμερα και δεν πονάνε τα αυτιά μας κάθε μέρα. ΄Ασχετο με την ακρίβεια τώρα, μπράβο για την προσπάθεια.
+Christos Bountzas μπορεί ναι, όχι και ίσως ακουγόταν έτσι. Μέχρι εδώ καλά. Το βαρβαρίζει με ποιάν έννοια το λέτε; Την αρχαιοελληνική, την ρωμαϊκή, ή την νεοελληνική; διότι εδώ διαφέρουν πολύ οι απόψεις...
Πάντως και αν κάποιος δεν αλλάξει τα 7 "ι" και τα β, Γ, Δ κλπ και κρατήσει αυτό που μέχρι 30-40 χρόνια γνώριζαν και οι πέτρες, δηλ τα μακρά κ τα βραχέα πάλι παράξενα κ οδυνηρά θα μας ακουστεί· όχι ότι τα προσφέραμε μακρά ή βραχέα στην νεοελληνική αλλά τα γνωρίζαμε καλά. Όταν αυτό χάθηκε άρχισαν να αλλάζουν όλα τα υπόλοιπα. Και σήμερα το ίδιο θα συμβεί στην προφορά αν κάποιος αρχίσει να προφέρει τις συλλαβικες ποσότητες: λόγω ευκολίας θα σκληρύνει τα μαλακωμένος βγδ κλπ
Wonderful reading!
The only guide I've ever had to pronunciation was Dr. Stephen Daitz CUNY (Rest in Peace). He did immense work in popularizing proper 5th Century Attic Greek pronunciation. Alas, his voice was not well suited for most people's liking.......this is beautiful.
This is the first I heard that Stephen Daitz had passed away. Some of his recordings could have been better, but I have to agree that he played a huge role in taking reconstructed Greek pronunciation from written theory to spoken practice. Some of the restored pronunciation advocates I've been following were at one time students of Dr. Daitz. One that comes to mind is Philippe Brunet, who studied under Daitz and has since been helping the reconstructed pronunciation to gain traction in his native France.
Thanks for the tip on Philippe Brunet!!
I know it must seem strange to speakers of modern Greek, but no-one questions the idea that Chaucer or Anglo-Saxon sounded VERY different to modern English, and that was not half as long ago as classical Greek or Koine. Greek words written by Romans of the time help with possible pronunciation of Greek, as do Greek spellings of Roman names help understand probable Latin pronunciation. It seems inconceivable that the array of Greek vowels all sounded the same in ancient times; why have them?
Exactly :-)
An not only that; Dionysius of Halicarnassus even describes the production of the vowels (among others) in a different way each. There must be a reason... Also, what people don't realise is that (suppose the Greek alphabet came from the Phoenician syllabary, which had no vowel symbols), when the Greeks added the vowels there would be some simple logic behind this addition. Why e.g. didn't they add 7 extra vowels for the [e]-sounds, like they supposedly did for the [i]?
Of course, some contemporary Greeks that they wrote the “i‘ in 7 ways, in order to indicate the etymology of words. But this is out of time BS. Before the use of [H] and [Ω] they used [E] and [O], which didn't happen with any kind of alternatives for the [I]...
Very helpful in this respect is the ancient Greek definition of [orthography], quite different than the contemporary historical one.
DIonysius even indicates proof of the separate pronunciation of the diphthongs (ch.24), both short and long.
I was in Ithaki last year and needed a needle. My modern Greek is not very good. I was in a shop, when suddenly I remembered the ancient Greek word Βελονη. I changed the beta to veta and the woman understood me! She then told me that it had never been pronounced with a B, but always with a V. Her husband was a professor, she said, and knew that the pronunciation of Greek had not changed in two thousand five hundred years. This seems extremely unlikely to me, an 'argument from authority' perhaps. I was extremely grateful for the needle and did not want to argue with the lady, so I left with my belone, beloni, veloni, or whatever it was, or had been.
Also this obsession with the modern pronunciation must have a reason, nothing exists without one...
Sure, her man knew it for sure, but didn't tell anybody how he did :-D
The reasons might be lack of imagination, national pride after turkish rule, 'demotic' sentiments against the 'unnatural' katharevousa, inability to see change (because the letters are essentially the same after two thousand five hundred years). If I asked English people to read or speak Chaucer (700 years old), they would be disbelieving. If I asked them to do the same with Anglo-Saxon (1500 years ago), they would no doubt not even recognise the language. Contemporary Latin books give us an idea what the Koine may have sounded like. It's difficult to know things for sure, but people sometimes don't even want to look.How many people claim their island as the birthplace of Homer (if there was a Homer). Where IS Ithaca?
I think this linguistic ignorance is cultivated, or at least when an official language (+pronunciation) was established there has been a decision to concentrate only in this "modern" version, because mainly of analphebetism and the great variety in local mini-dialects. But to insist today is unacceptable...
Imagine hearing Ancient Greek that was spoken thousands of years ago. It kind of gave me goose bumps .
it's a fascinating quest
Thank you for posting
You're welcome, thank you for listening :-)
Amazing!
Excellent selection of classical texts. Though I know it must take an enormous amount of work to put these recordings together, I hope we'll see more. It's a heavy burden, but when the muses have blessed you with the kind of talent you have, you have a responsibility to the world.
+Eppy Glottis
Blush...
Sehr schöne Erinnerung.... Danke.
Ich bedanke much such bei Ihnen :)
thanks for the pick-me-up right at the very beginning of this video
Be my guest
It's a lovely reading, thank you for uploading it.
One small factor, for me, hoping to learn ancient Greek pronunciation, because I will need to restart many times, it would be nice to have a video without introduction, so I can easily return to the first word.
Great though, all the same!
Anaformia abalatus dispositium. Actually you can do this by clicking at the timestamp ("text start") which is under the viedo, in the description area...
Podium-Arts So thoughtful, thanks. :-)
His voice is sublime.
he thanks you ;-)
Everything about this is perfect.
I'll tell my wife :-) Thanks!
I feel more and more motivated to learn Ancient Greek after listening to this. I heard it's VERY difficult, but maybe I'll give it a try?
Ancient Greek is difficult, in my opinion, not because it is more complicated than other languages - which I think it's not - but because one cannot learn it like any other language. Since, for various reasons, there has been no audio material for it, one is confined to written sources. Probably anyone trying to learn a language from paper (or screen nowadays) will face the same degree of difficulty.
This is a problem I'm trying to solve within my means in the most accurate way possible...
Homer's epic in Ancient Greek sounds so much more...well, epic!
hehe, dear Poet, when I grow up I'll try a hiphop version. It shall be archaeology at that time!
What pronunciation method is used here and where can I find a guide to pronounce Greek like this?
look up old greek on wikipedia and go to phonetics
Pierce Long Go to a British teacher of Latin.
+Pierce Long
you could try this one:
www.udemy.com/ancient-greek-phonetics/
This is so perfect 👏 wish it was longer
thanks P... there's a long version (the whole rhapsody) but without music.
I love this reading. I have learned only a touch of ancient Greek. Do you have some video guide to this pronunciation?
+bbryant0620
Sorry, not yet; but it's in the planning...
Wow, I really liked this. I study Ancient Greek at school, and I had imagined it quite differently, but of course this is epos after all, so the general speaking must have been different in rhythm and intonation. I especially think the η has a pronounciation which surprised me. I also wanted to ask you a question: how long does it take you to make a fragment like this from the very beginning to the moment you post it on youtube?
Bas Ketelaar
Dag Bas, leuk dat je in het oudgriekse bent geïnteresseerd :-)
Normally people learn a rather mechanical way of reading epic, which for me is a bit unnatural. It is of course useful at a certain point, as a way of practicing recitation.
General speaking is a bit different, but keeps the rhythm of the individual words intact (like in Dutch). The main difference is that you don't have a regular metric pattern, like in poetry.
This fragment took me a couple of hours to produce, which is not the normal way I work. Maar dit was een spontane ingeving ;-) Als ik een compleet werk maak duurt het vrij lang.
Dank u wel, ik waardeer dit zeer!
Bas Ketelaar
graag gedaan ;-)
That's beautiful! Kalos kai agathos!
+luca lunardi Grazie tante!
This is gorgeous.
Quick question though: is any attempt being made (anywhere) to come up with a melody for the Homeric poems? As far as I am aware they were sung, which is a key component of keeping oral traditions like this alive, so it seems logical to sing them. Presumably if we have the correct pronunciation it should fit to music well.
Either way you’ve done a fantastic job. Thank you!
Thanks for your comment Eliza :-)
I'm sure there have been people attempting to set Homeric texts in music, but don't know of any serious efforts to reconstruct a seemingly proper melodic line. I'm also experimenting with this since a couple of days (just got a kind of chelys to play with, trying things out).
One of the people who've recorded a "melodised" version of some Homeric passages are mr. Hagel of Austria and mr. Philippe Brunet of France. You may find their stuff on the www. It's fascinating but I would do it in another way. Unfortunately there's no evidence around, so it's all rather the product of one's fantasy than anything else.
Greetings :-)
This is the most beautiful thing I came across today
Thanks Chris :-)
@@Podium-arts I want to listen to every single recording you have online. I really want to learn the original pronunciation correctly. Thank you!
@@Nevio857 well, just follow the channel, or buy my audiobooks... Or come to a performance/reading
οδυσ. φωτ.
1) τί εἶναι περιεχόμενο τῶν κειμένων; μόνον τὰ σημάδια στὸ χαρτί (ἢ τὴν ὀθόνη) ;
2) πράγματι εἶναι καὶ ὑποθετική καὶ κατασκευασμένη ἡ προφορά, ἀφοῦ δὲν ὑπάρχει ἡ παροιμοιώδης "μαγνητοταινία"
3) τὸ νόημα συνήθως συνοδεύει αὐτοὺς ποὺ διακρίνουν κάποιαν ἀξία σὲ κάτι. Ἂν δὲν σκοπεύω νὰ μετακομίσω στὴν Μογγολία π.χ. δὲν βλέπω τὸ νόημα νὰ μάθω τὴν τοπικὴ γλῶσσα...
4) πράγματι εἶναι μεγίστη περιπέτεια νὰ πλησιάσῃς τὴν ἀρχαία προφορά, ἄρα καὶ τὸ νόημα τῶν κειμένων ποὺ χαράχτηκαν γιὰ νὰ τὴν ἀπεικονίσουν. Ἐπρόκειτο κυριώτατα γιὰ προφορικόν πολιτισμό, ἀκόμη καὶ γιὰ τὴν ἔννοια "λέξις" χρησιμοποιεῖται μία... λέξις ποὺ σημαίνει τὴν διαδικασία τοῦ νὰ προφέρεις (λόγος > λέγω > λέξις καὶ ὄχι γραφή > γράφω > γράψις (θέμουφύλαε!))
5) κάποιος γραφικὸς κάποτε ἔβλεπε τὰ πουλιὰ νὰ πετάνε καὶ ἔφτειαξε τὸ πρῶτο ἀεροπλάνο...
Πρέπει νὰ σοῦ πῶ ὅμως ὅτι ἡ ἀνακατασκευὴ βασίζεται σὲ ὑπαρκτὰ κείμενα Ἑλλήνων τῆς ἀρχαιότητος, ποὺ περιγράφουν ποῦ πρέπει νὰ βρίσκεται ἡ γλῶσσα, πόσο ἀνοίγει τὸ στόμα, πόση ὥρα κρατᾷ ὁ ἦχος τῶν στοιχείων (φθόγγων), ποῦ νοιώθεις τὸ ἦχο ἢ τὸν ἀέρα κ.ἄ. κατὰ τὴν προφορά των κ.λπ. πολὺ ξεκάθαρες ὁδηγίες.
Σχετικὰ μὲ τοὺς καχυπόπτους, νοιώθω συμπάθεια, διότι ἂν δὲν μοῦ ἔμπαιναν ὑποψίες γιὰ τὸ ἀνεξήγητο φαινόμενο νὰ γράφομε τὸν -ηχο -ι μὲ 6-7 τρόπους καὶ οἱ φιλόλογοί μας νὰ λένε χίλιες διαφορετικὲς ἀδικαιολόγητες ἀνοησίες δὲν θὰ ἀνακάλυπτα ἀπ' εὐθείας τὰ κείμενα ποὺ οἱ ἴδιοι θὰ ἔπρεπε νὰ γνωρίζουν καλλίτερα ἀπὸ κάθε ἄλλον.
Κάποιοι μὲ ἔχουν βρίσει μὲ πάθος γιὰ ὁ,τιδήποτε θεωροῦν ἀηδὴ σκοπιμότητα. Κυρίως "φθορᾶς" ἢ "καταστροφῆς" τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς γλώσσης. Συνήθως δὲν γνωρίζουν οὔτε γραφή καλὰ καλά, ὁπότε νὰ μποροῦν νὰ διαβάσουν (πόσο μᾶλλον νὰ καταλάβουν) ἀρχαῖα δέν τὸ βλέπω. Δυστυχῶς τέτοιους δύσκολα μπορεῖ νὰ βοηθήσει κανείς...
Φυσικὰ ἡ προφορὰ αὐτὴ ἀκούγεται περίεργη, ὅσο π.χ. Νορβηγική. Σωστά. Ἡ γλῶσσα τους ἔχει τὸν λεγόμενο "μουσικὸ τόνο" ὅπως ἡ ἀρχαιοελληνική, ποὺ κι αὐτός περιγράφεται ἀρκετά στοὺς "παληούς῾
Καλημέρα Proteus Hellene, ὄχι, διότι αὐτὸ συνέβη σταδιακὰ μὲ τὸ πέρασμα τῶν αἰώνων (μετά τὴν έποχὴ ποὺ θεωροῦμε ἀρχαία). Τὸ συνάγωμε κυρίως μελετῶντες τὰ σφάλματα στὴν γραφή. Ἐπίσης ὁ Σέξτος Ἐμπ. στὸ "κατὰ γραμματικῶν" κάτι ἀναφέρει γιὰ προφορὰ ποὺ δείχνει πρὸς τὴν νεοελληνική, γράφει ὅμως γιὰ τὴν γλῶσσα τῆς ὲποχῆς του, καὶ γιὰ τότε δὲν ὑπάρχει μεγάλη ἀμφιβολία πὼς τὰ περισσότερα φωνήματα λέγονταν ὅπως περίπου σήμερα (καὶ αἱ δίφθογγοι πλέον).
Αὐτὸ ποὺ περιγράφουν οἱ παλαιότεροι γιὰ τὰ σημερινὰ "ι" ἀφορᾷ διαφορετικὰ ἀκούσματα.
Μπορεῖς νὰ διαβάσῃς τὶς ὁδηγίες προφορᾶς στὸ κεφ.14 τοῦ "Περὶ συνθέσεως ὁνομάτων" τοῦ Διονυσίου Ἁλικαρνασσέως.
Σήμερα ἡ ὀρθογραφία μας εἶναι ἱστορική, δηλ. φωνητικὰ δὲν συμπίπτει μὲ τὸ τὶ προφέρομε.
Excuse me, what's the music playing on this video?
+dar gon it's by a composer called Vangelis Mertzanis, the CD is called "Odyssey"
+Δημήτριος Α
Τὸ ἔχω δεῖ ἤδη κάποια χρόνια πίσω. Δὲν συμφωνῶ μὲ τὸ συμπέρασμά του, ποὺ
δὲν εἶναι συμπέρασμα ἀλλὰ σκοπός καὶ προϋπόθεσις.
Δυστυχῶς ἀφήνει πολλὰ δεδομένα ἔξω, ποὺ δὲν τὰ ἀναφέρει διότι προφανῶς
δὲν ταιριάζουν μὲ αὐτὸ ποὺ προσπαθεῖ νὰ ἀποδείξῃ, δηλ. τὴν συνέχεια ὄχι
τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς γλώσσης, ἀλλὰ τὴν συνέχεια (γιὰ ἐκεῖνον ταυτότητα) τῆς
προφορᾶς διαφορετικῶν μορφῶν τῆς ἰδίας γλώσσης.
Ἀσφαλῶς καὶ πολλὰ ἔχουν παραμείνει εὐτυχῶς ἀναλλοίωτα, ἀσφαλῶς καὶ μόνη
στέραια βάσι γιὰ νὰ ἀνακαλύψωμε τὴν παλαιότερη προφορὰ εἶναι ἡ Νέα
Ἑλληνική, ἀλλά, τουλάχιστον στὴν δική μου ἀνασύνθεσι μελετῶ πρωτίστως
τὶς ἀρχαιοελληνικὲς μαρτυρίες. Ἀκριβῶς ἐπειδὴ ὑπάρχουν κι ἄλλες
μαρτυρίες καὶ ἐνδείξεις, δημιουργεῖται μία διαφορετικὴ ἀκουστικὴ
«εἰκόνα» ἀπὸ αὐτὴν ποὺ παρουσιάζει τὸ συνημμένο ὀπτικοακουστικό.
Σ᾽ευχαριστώ για την άποψή σου φίλε Podium-Arts. Επίσης, μπορείς να μου πείς εάν υπάρχει κάποια απόδοση της Ιλιάδος ή/και της Οδύσσειος σε Αττική διάλεκτο; Ερευνώ τον τελευταίο καιρό, αλλά δεν έχω βρεί τίποτα.
ok, folks, just wanted you to know that this form of Ancient Greek wasn't meant to be used by effective speakers in everyday life. Homer's Greek is a literary and artificial language, used since the eighth century B.C. just for poems and literary compositions.
+Brenno Rubegni This is a broad take; maybe too broad. In terms of syntax because of the metrical needs of the hexameter, it is a literary & artificial language. On the other side, the words used and the seeming mixing of dialects doesn't make it artificial, because -as one theory says- if the poet was born/living in a busy port, like the one Agamemnon took sailing to Troy, it would plausibly give a dialectic mixture like this.
Still, poetry is also ... spoken language, even in open air :-)
Thanks for commenting
+Podium-Arts Lovely performance of reading such an important text to Western Literature! Congratulations for your beatiful achievement! I will indicate it to my studends!
+Fernando Brandão dos Santos Thank you Fernando :-) I hope your students will like it too
Qué belleza. Qué honor formar parte de esta civilización.
gracias Raquel :-)
Thanks for your amazing video! Do you know if there's the same sort of content for Classical Latin? Να εχετε μια ομορφη μερα!
Lots of Latin stuff, also on TH-cam ;-)
It was interesting to listen to a slower reading, it has more πάθος. When I had to read it in class I used to concentrate more on the rhythm and it sounded more like a prayer or spell rather than a narrative poem
Ayame Kazekawa
epic poetry must have been delivered in quasi-spoken form, metrical & rhythmical with its prosody but not sung. Ancient Greeks used to say "Homer's epics, Terpander's mele (songs)"; Terpander was according to tradition the first one to deliver sung Homeric works, so I suppose that Homer himself didn't do it likewise...
For practicing reasons concentrating on the rhythmical part is very effective, but one has not to overdo it.
I cannot imagine how Ion, in the homonymus Platonic dialogue, could describe the good and ill effects of a rhapsodic performance if these works were to be delivered with a dominant rhythm over a kind of narrative that approaches and accentuates the dramatic elements, however strange an art can be.
In other works, I mean religious hymns that I'm preparing, the rhythmic element will sound more present, exactly because IMHO it does need this prayer/spell-like character, but I'm not sure it adds anything in an epic poem.
Thanks for listening and commenting :-)
Wow, he even pronounces his wau's.
How to know what Words have wau?
Wow. Learned to read a tiny bit of attic greek c4th mannny years ago. Always wondered how homeric greek sounded.
By the end i was atleast following the words (at first it was hard to hear the word breaks)...
Thank you.
thanks too :-)
Do you have the exact link for the music? I can't seem to find it online. 😢
The image, music, and the narration kind of takes to you to the epic. Thanks for sharing!
The music is by Vangelis Mertzanis, who used to have a YT channel. I saw that his CD "Odyssey" is available on various Greek webshops. You can google "βαγγελης μερτζανης Οδύσσεια" and it should show up.
Спасибо!..
Homer lives! :)
Statek Feaków
Oh yes, He does!
Have you ever thought of recording the most epic parts of Illiad and Odyssey this way (with music)? I think many people would buy it, even without sufficient knowledge of the ancient Greek language, because it sounds so damn epic.
Dear Sergii, never really thought of it. My aim is the complete recording of both + the hymns (in a way that I myself say 'yes'). It is my life's work, all the rest is a preparation for that. Yours is a perfectly good idea but if do that first I'd feel like a traitor of Homer :-D
You are doing God's work gentleman, deeply appreciated and valued.
Thanks Halid :-)
Let's make that doing Zeus' work.
Alas, an acceptable pronunciation! You have my respect.
Thanks tH
'Alas' doesn't mean 'at last' haha, it means 'unfortunately' :P
@@Philoglossos hahaha
Τρομερά ωραίο ετούτο εδώ!
Εύγε! και για την προσπάθεια και τον κόπο σου!
Να ακούς την γλώσσα μας πως μιλούτανε τρεις χιλλιάδες χρόνια πριν, δέος!!!
Έχω όμως απορία, είναι πιο κοντά στην κοινή μυκηναϊκή ή την αρχαϊκή γλώσσα η απόδοση;
Με ποια περίοδο της ελληνικής ασχολείσαι;
Σέ ευχαριστώ εκ των προτέρων.
Εὐχαριστῶ Ἀνδρέα :-)
Οἱ περισσότερες πληροφορίες ποὺ ἔχομε ἀφοροῦν τὴν κλασικὴ Ἀττικὴ Διάλεκτο. Μὲ βάσι αὐτὴν προσδιορίζονται καὶ οἱ ἄλλες. Π.χ. τὰ Ὁμηρικὰ κατεγράφησαν στὴν Ἀττική, μὲ τὰ σύμβολά της γιὰ νὰ ἀποδώσουν τὸν οἱονδήποτε ἦχο τῆς παλαιοτέρας προφορᾶς κ.ο.κ.
Γεια σας! Συγχαρητήρια για το βίντεο!
Θα ήθελα να μου διευκρινίσετε κάτι• επειδή οι πηγές στο διαδίκτυο διαφέρουν σχετικά με την προφορά τον και , πότε παρίσταναν έναν δίφθογγο /ei/ και /oi/ και πότε ένα μακρό φωνήεν /e:/ και /o:/;
Επίσης, γνωρίζουμε την προφορά του με ακρίβεια (και ειδικότερα για την Αττική διάλεκτο);
Γειά σου καὶ εὐχαριστῶ Ἀπόστολε :-)
Ἡ προφορὰ ἀνὰ περιοχὲς πρέπει νὰ διέφερε σὲ κάποια σημεῖα, ὅπως γίνεται καὶ σήμερα σὲ ὅλες τὶς γλῶσσες καὶ στὴν δική μας. Ἐκτὸς αὐτοῦ διέφερε καὶ κατὰ περιόδους. Δὲν ὑπῆρχε βέβαια κάποιος κεντρικὸς μηχανισμὸς ποὺ νὰ τὸ κανονίζῃ αὐτὸ ὅπως σήμερα.
Ἡ [ει] ἀντιπροσώπευε γιὰ μία μικρὴ περίοδο τὸ μακρὸν [ε], ποὺ ἀπὸ τὸ 403πΧ μὲ διάταγμα στὴν Ἀθήνα ἐπὶ ἄρχοντος Εὐκλείδου, κατόπιν εἰσηγήσεως κάποιου στρατηγοῦ (τοῦ ὁποίου δὲν ἐνθυμοῦμαι τὸ ὄνομα αὐτὴν τὴν στιγμή) καθιέρωνε τὸ γράμμα [Η] γιὰ τὴν γραφικὴ ἀπόδοσι τοῦ ἤχου αὐτοῦ (μακροῦ Ε). Μέχρι τότε τὸ [Η] παρίστανε τὸν ἦχο τῆς δασείας. Αὐτὸ ἀφορᾷ δημόσια ἔγγραφα καὶ ἐπιγραφές, διότι ἀτάκτως κάποιοι ἤδη τὸ εἶχαν υἱοθετησει ἐκ τῆς Ἰωνικῆς ἀλφαβήτου κ.λπ.
Ἡ προφορά τῆς γραφῆς (ει) ἦταν «έϊ» (μὲ τὶ «ι» διαβατικό, συντομώτερο σὲ διάρκεια) :
1) ὡς γνησίας διφθόγγου, π.χ. στὶς περιπτώσεις ὅπου ὑπῆρχε δίγαμμα ἀνάμεσα στὰ δύο φωνήεντα (εϝι), π.χ. Ἀτρεύς →Ἀτρεϝίδης ὅπου τὸ [υ] μετετράπη σὲ ϝ καὶ μετὰ ἐξέλιπε, ἐνῷ
2) ὅταν ἡ δίφθογγος συλλαβὴ ἦταν νόθη ἀκουγόταν σὰν ἕνα μακρὸ, ὀξὺ «ε» ποὺ πλησίαζε τὸ «ι». Αὐτὸ συνέβαινε στὶς περιπτώσεις ὅπου λόγῳ διπλασιασμοῦ τοῦ [ε] ὁ ἦχος ἔφευγε ἀπὸ τὸ «καθαρὸ/γυμνὸ/ἁπλοῦν» [ε] (ψιλόν) καὶ ἄλλαζε ἡ ἀκουστική του ποιότητα. Τὸ ὅτι συγχέεται ἐνίοτε μὲ τὸ μακρὸν [ι] εἶναι ἐνδεικτικόν τῆς ἀκουστικῆς ἐγγύτητος τῶν δύο ([ει]~[ιι]) διότι οἱ θέσεις τῶν φωνητικῶν ὀργάνων εἶναι πλησιέστατες κατὰ τὴν προφορὰ τῶν δύο. (Ὑπάρχει μάλιστα ἀττικὴ προτομὴ τοῦ Ἰσοκράτους, ὅπου γράφεται [Εἰσοκράτης], λιγάκι κατὰ τὸ Ὁμηρικὸν μακρὸν [ι] («ἀσπίς ἐΐση»)).
Στὶς ἠχογραφήσεις μου προσπαθῶ φυσικὰ νὰ ἀποδώσω αὐτὴν τὴν διαφορὰ τῶν δύο [ει], ἀλλὰ δὲν εἶναι πάντα ξεκάθαρο τί ἀκούει ὁ κάθε ἀκροατής...
Γιὰ τὴν [οι] ἰσχύει κάτι ἀνάλογο, δηλ. συλλαβὲς ὅθεν ἐξέλιπε τὸ ϝ, χωρὶς ἐδῶ νὰ ὑπάρχει οὐσιαστικὴ διαφορὰ στὴν προφορά, καὶ οὔτε νὰ συγχέεται ἡ μία ἐκδοχὴ μὲ τὴν ἄλλη. Τουλάχιστον δὲν φαίνεται κάτι τέτοιο ἀπὸ ἐπιγραφές. Τὸ [ο] ἦταν ἕνα κλειστό βραχὺ φωνῆεν ποὺ πλησίαζε τὸν ἦχο τοῦ μονοφθόγγου σημερινοῦ «ου». Ἡ [οι] δὲν φαίνεται νὰ παρίστανε μονόφθογγο, παρὰ σὲ περιπτώσεις ποὺ τὸ φωνητικὸ περιβάλλον ἔκανε τὴν ἐκφορὰ τοῦ [ι] κουραστική. Βέβαια διαλεκτικῶς ἐμφανίζονται λέξεις ὅπου ἡ [οι] ἀντικαθιστᾷ τὴν [ου] (π.χ. «Μοῦσα», «Μοῖσα», ἀλλὰ καὶ «Μῶἁ» στὴν Σπάρτη), ὅμως σὲ καθε διάλεκτο ὑπάρχουν ἰδιομορφίες ποὺ σχεδὸν ποτὲ δὲν ἀπαντῶνται στὸ ἴδιο κείμενο. Πολὺ ἀργότερα ἡ [οι] μονοφθέγγεται σὲ κάτι σὰν [ö], αργότερα σὲ [υ] καὶ τελικὰ ±1000 μΧ καταλήγει κι αὐτὴ ἕνα ἁπλὸ «ι».
Γιὰ τὸ [Ζ] γράφουν οἱ παλαιοὶ πὼς προφέρεται ὡς [σδ] ὡς [δς] ἢ ὡς ἕνας ἴδιος ἦχος ποὺ δὲν ἔχει νὰ κάνῃ μὲ αὐτά. Ἐπειδὴ ὅμως ὑπάρχει καὶ ἐπιγραφὴ καὶ νόμισμα (νομίζω) «Ζμύρνη» ἢ καὶ «Ζμυρναίων» εἶναι παράλογο νὰ ὑποθέσῃ κανεὶς πὼς κάποιος στὴν Ἰωνία θὰ ἔμπαινε στὸν κόπο νὰ προφέρῃ «σδμύρνη». Ἡ ὑπόθεσίς μου εἶναι πὼς οἱ τρεῖς προφορὲς ἐλέγοντο, σδ→«ζδ», δσ→«τζ» καὶ «ζζ». Τὸ νὰ βρῇ ὅμως κάποιος ὅλες τὶς περιπτώσεις ποὺ ἀντιστοιχοῦσαν στὴν κάθε μία προφορά, ἀπαιτεῖ χρόνο καὶ συγκρίσεις πολλές, ποὺ δὲν ἔχω κάνει ἀκόμη, ὥστε νὰ καταρτίσω μὲ βεβαιότητα ἕναν σχετικὸ πίνακα. Φανερά, ὅμως, σὲ περιπτώσεις συνθέσεως (Ἀθήνας δε → Ἀθήναζε) ἡ ἐπιλογὴ εἶναι εὔκολη, ὅπως καὶ κατὰ τὴν κλῖσι τῶν ῥημάτων, ὅπου ἐπιλέγω τὸ [σδ]. Στὴν λέξι [ζυγός] ὅμως ἡ ἐπιλογή μου εἶναι [δσ/ζζ] κ.ο.κ. Τὸ μόνο σίγουρο εἶναι πὼς τὸ [Ζ] εἶχε διάρκεια διπλοῦ συμφώνου ποὺ προφέρεται μὲ κάποιαν ἀντίστασι (παράβλεπε τὶς ἐπιγραφὲς στὴν Κρήτη ὅπου τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Διὸς στὴν αἰτιατικὴ πτῶσι γράφεται [Ττῆνα] καὶ τὸ σημεῖο στὸν Πλατωνικὸ «Κρατύλο» ὅπου τὰ [Ψ, Ξ] ἀναφέρονται ὡς «μάλα πνευματώδη» ἐνῷ τὸ [Ζ] ἁπλῶς ὡς «πνευματῶδες». Δηλ. ἐξέφευγε ὀλιγώτερος ἀέρας κατὰ τὴν ἐκφοράν του, κάτι ποὺ συνηγορεῖ ὑπὲρ τῶν «σδ» καὶ «ζζ». Κάποτε ἄκουσα στὶς Βρυξέλλες ἕναν γέροντα Κύπριο καὶ μοῦ ἐλύθη ἡ ἀπορία. Ὅπως τὸ ἔλεγε τὸ Ζ μποροῦσε κανεὶς προσπαθῶντας νὰ τὸ περιγράψῃ εὔκολα νὰ ἐπιλέξῃ ὁποιανδήποτε ἀπὸ τὶς τρεῖς...
Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὸ ἐνδιαφέρον σου :-)
Podium-Arts Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὴν κατατοπιστική ἀπάντησή σας!
Θὰ δοκιμάσω νὰ γράψω κι ἐγώ σὲ πολυτονικὸ, ἀλλὰ συγχωρέστε τὰ λάθη μου γιατὶ ἔμαθα νὰ γράφω μὲ αὐτὸ προσφάτως. Εἶμαι εὐτυχής ποὺ βρῆκα τὸ κανάλι σας, ἐπειδή εἶστε απὸ τοὺς ἐλάχιστους ἀνθρώπους ποὺ ἀνεβάζουν ὑψηλῆς ποιότητας βίντεο μὲ τὴν ἀνακατασκευασμένη προφορὰ, καὶ ὄχι τὴν Ερασμιακή. Θὰ ἤθελα νὰ μάθω ἄν ἔχετε ἠχογραφήσει κείμενα στὴν Δωρική διάλεκτο, επειδή ὅπως καταλαβαίνετε τὸ ὑλικὸ εἶναι ἐξαιρετικά περιορισμένο γιὰ ὁποιαδήποτε διάλεκτο πέραν τῆς Αττικῆς, ἡ ὁποῖα ἔχει «κλέψει» ὅλη την δόξα! Καὶ τέλος, πῶς ὀνομάζεται ἡ γραμματοσειρά ποὺ ἔχετε χρησιμοποιήσει στὸ βίντεο;
Στὴν Δωρικὴ διάλεκτο ἔχω ἠχογραφήσει κάποιες ἀπὸ τὶς ᾠδὲς τοῦ Πινδάρου, ποὺ ὅμως δὲν δημοσίευσα διότι τὰ μηχανήματα καὶ οἱ συνθῆκες ἠχογράφησης ἦταν κάπως πρόχειρες. Προτιμῶ ὅ,τι δημοσιεύεται, ἰδίως ἐκεῖνα ποὺ εἶναι πρὸς πώλησιν νὰ μὴν ἔχουν τεχνικῆς φύσεως ἀδυναμίες.
Στὸ μέλλον θὰ δημοσιεύσω τὶς συλλογὲς αὐτές, ὅπως καὶ λυρικὰ στὴν Δωρική.
Τὸ πολυτονικό σας εἶναι πολὺ καλό (πλὴν ἐλαχίστων ἐξαιρεσεων ( π.χ. ἐπειδή → ἐπειδὴ)
Ἡ γραμματοσειρὰ τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς εἶναι ἡ Porson (ποὺ χρησιμοποιεῖται στὶς ἐκδόσεις τῆς Ὀξφόρδης, ἀλλὰ διατίθεται καὶ δωρεὰν ἀπὸ τὴν www.greekfontsociety.gr ὀνόματι "GFS Porson")
ПЕСНЬ ПЕРВАЯ
Муза, скажи мне о том многоопытном муже, который,
Странствуя долго со дня, как святой Илион им разрушен,
Многих людей города посетил и обычаи видел,
Много и сердцем скорбел на морях, о спасенье заботясь
[5] Жизни своей и возврате в отчизну сопутников; тщетны
Были, однако, заботы, не спас он сопутников: сами
Гибель они на себя навлекли святотатством, безумцы,
Съевши быков Гелиоса, над нами ходящего бога, -
День возврата у них он похитил. Скажи же об этом
[10] Что-нибудь нам, о Зевесова дочь, благосклонная Муза.
Все уж другие, погибели верной избегшие, были
Дома, избегнув и брани и моря; его лишь, разлукой
С милой женой и отчизной крушимого, в гроте глубоком
Светлая нимфа Калипсо, богиня богинь, произвольной
[15] Силой держала, напрасно желая, чтоб был ей супругом.
Но когда, наконец, обращеньем времен приведен был
Год, в который ему возвратиться назначили боги
В дом свой, в Итаку (но где и в объятиях верных друзей он
Всё не избег от тревог), преисполнились жалостью боги
[20] Все; Посейдон лишь единый упорствовал гнать Одиссея,
Богоподобного мужа, пока не достиг он отчизны.
Гомер, "Одиссея" (перевод В.А. Жуковского)
As a greek, I find this amazing. This is what I imagine aliens would sound like.
Earthling! welcome to the time machine! :-D
Ακριβώς
Where can I find the track that is playing in this video? I looked Vangelis' page on SoundCloud, but nothing there :(
It's derived from a Greek Cretan song called " Σε ψηλό βουνό " , ( in a high, tall mountain)
Τὸ ἔχει βέβαια μεταλλάξει ὁ Βαγγέλης, δὲν γνώριζα ὅμως πὼς (πιθανῶς νὰ) σχετίζεται.
Hello, this is a very interesting interpretation of the ancient greek language and certainly the most interesting I have come upon. I would thus like to ask a question if you may. Why is the pronunciation of "θ" as "t" and why has it become common that we changed so many pronunciations of letters in the modern greek?
Hi TS, thanks for listening :-)
Well, the Θ is not exactly a T sound. It starts with it and then a puff of air is following it, hence its representation by writing TH in other languages. (Similarly the X was written as KH and Φ as ΠΗ in Greek and elsewhere). With time it changed, like some other ones, I believe (and notice myself when speaking/reading/reciting) because of the shortening of the long vowels. You see, if while speaking we use systematically, and not only incidentally, long vowels we need "support" for them. That's because longs and H's let more air escape from lungs & mouth. Which changes the syntax and number of words in the cola & sentences of the spoken dialect. A "hard" pronunciation, that is "momentary", helps spare some air and don't get out of breath. When vowel quantity (duration) was systematically shortened all the β,γ,δ's and φ,χ,θ's followed, gradually changing to what they now are in modern Greek. There are some indications in Ancient Greek dialects that locally a B might have been pronounced as V etc, but this was not the normal general use, at least in official language and following the extant descriptions of grammarians.
The vowels took a road of their own too. But this is another story.
Homeric Greek was more similar to Sanskrit than to modern Greek. In India some can still speak fluent Sanskrit, very fast and natural. It will be interesting to play this recording to them.
+Moesy Pittounikos interesting indeed! If you have news let me know
And you would know about this because you are of course fluent in both Greek and.. Sanskrit, right? LOL. If you are not fluent, don't let me know...
It's a shame that in Greece, they spend 6 years studying ancient Greek but they don't learn to speak or even pronounce it.
Such a waste :(
Agree, they would have spared so much time and effort by doing this very simple thing... A knowledgeable teacher once told me that they don't even dare to mention some things, so passionate is the reaction of the pupils. To speak it in class would be an even greater risk. Unfortunately. But we'll try to change all that.
Thanks for commenting!
@@Podium-arts actually, a teacher of mine, had told us a few times at school, about the real pronunciation in ancient greeks, even how they wrote syllables in linear B.. but it was more like funfacts, than the point of the course. 😕
too bad, because those things are very interesting and really basic to understand the structure, while they wouldn't hurt anyone!!
Thanks! Part of the appreciation for these uploads are the comments which have high comedic content. Assertions eg., Greek sounded exactly the same 3000 years ago as it does today!! (Yeah, this is a funny post but there are some who are posting this drivel). Generally, posters going ballistic on pronunciation have no notion that there were at least 5 major Greek dialects in the Age of Homer - from a lot of evidence, we can conclude accents for each diverged greatly, maybe, on the scale Cork/Kerry/Dublin/Belfast/Glasgow/London Cockney. One poster (on another nice upload) asserts knowing the pronunciation is BULLSHIT because he's Greek and studied Ancient Greek in high school. Anyway, as no one is injured in the making of these videos no problem. Greece eternal, Greece forever.
Isn't it a wonderful comments' collection? I really reread them when I need a lift :-D
Is the music in the background in any way a recreation of the music to which the Odyssey was sung to? Since the Odyssey and Iliad were sung as poems. It sounds beautiful, btw.
I think the composer was just inspired by the story and imagined the atmosphere. The music is not connected to the ancient ones. Well, ancient Greek epic wasn't exactly sung (until it became common in Athens to really sing parts thereof), it was recited with lyre accompaniment...
@@Podium-arts Oh. Cool!
Wait... This is strange. I'm serbian and i started learning modern greek before few months, i can just read anicent greek, and I probably understand this.
there are of course some things different between modern and Ancient Greek, but it remains the same language. The greatest differences are the reading/speaking of diphthongs, long vowels are gone in modern and there are almost no fricatives in ancient, though in modern there are many.
I'm wondering what your experience will be when you progress in the modern form and listen back to the rendition of the ancient one.
Thank you for listening :-)