Homer, Odyssey rhapsody 01 (audiobook spoken in reconstructed Ancient Greek)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2018
- A sample of the published audiobook, containing the 1st rhapsody of the Homeric "Odyssey", narrated in reconstructed Ancient Greek, by Ioannis Stratakis.
Visit ancientgreek.eu/audiobooks/od... , www.podium-arts.com/4011/odys... & sites.fastspring.com/podiumar...
more info at ancientgreek.eu/audiobooks/odyssey-01.html
This reading is marvelous. It seems to me that it strikes just the right note in many disputed areas, such as metrics, accent, vowel quality, etc. Not only is it obviously based on research and reasoning, but also, and most important, it tells the story. As Aristotle says, in a slightly different context, that must reign supreme.
Thanks W, what you write I've been hoping to achieve one day :-) it's been a long ride!
He is outstanding. He is a native greek...
While I don’t know Greek, I love Homer, and wanted to know what his poetry may have sounded like back in the day. Thank you for this beautiful reading!
Thank you for listening :-)
After listening to this many times, I was able to recite this great poem of ancient Greece for a few minutes. I was born in a fabulous era that benefits from this video. From the eastern end of Eurasia.
I'm happy to know this :-)
Επιτέλους αρχαία ελληνικά με ελληνική προφορά. Διαβασμένα από άνθρωπο που γνωρίζει σε βάθος την ουσία του κειμένου. Έτσι θα έπρεπε να μας απαγγέλουν Όμηρο από το νηπιαγωγείο. Οτιδήποτε άλλο αποτελεί ημίμετρο στην παιδεία μας.
Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὰ καλά σου λόγια. Καὶ ναί, ἡ παιδεία μας γενικῶς χρειάζεται μερικὰ μπαλώματα τουλάχιστον...
Οπωσδήποτε...
I don't speak any greek but this was really cool to listen to :)
love this kind of comments :-) Thanks
@Podium-arts,
I can read and speak modern Greek (thanks to my maternal grandmother),but I could never attempt ancient Greek.
However,it is such a pleasure to listen to this rendering.
It makes me very proud that I have Greek in my soul. The Western World owes a lot to Greece.
Thank you so much and I say this with a few years in my eyes remembering my grandmother telling me never to forget that part of my hetitage.....Read every Greek philosopher but start with Homer because his two epics will lead you to want more. Granny was right.
As a medic I will never forget reading the Hippocratic Oath and telling myself: You have a Great Civilization to be proud of: yes,Greece.
Σας ανακάλυψα τώρα και από χθες δεν έχω σταματήσει να ακούω. Εκπληκτική δουλειά, συγχαρητήρια. Προσωπικά με κάνει να αισθάνομαι μια άχρονη σύνδεση με κάτι που νόμιζα ότι το ήξερα, ότι το είχα διδαχθεί στο σχολείο, αλλά τώρα καταλαβαίνω το πολιτισμικό του πλαίσιο που το εμπλουτίζει συγκινητικά!
Τί ὡραῖα ποὺ τὰ λές, εὐχαριστῶ
Starting my odyssey into the ancient greek world.
Wonderful content!
Have a good journey!
@@Podium-arts Ιωάννη, ἐν τῇ γλώσσῃ τοῦ Ὁμήρου ἆρʼοὐ ἦν ἂν ῥαψῳδία ῥαψαϝοιδία;
Ε Κ Π Λ Η Κ Τ Ι Κ Ο!!! μοναδικη εμπειρια! μεγαλο ευχαριστω !
νὰ εἶσαι καλά :-)
Seu conteúdo é fantástico. Abraços do Brasil =)
Que bellísimo, mi estimado, muchísimas gracias por tan poético audio.
Gracias Ricardo :-)
Un honor.
@@Podium-arts No sabía que podías entender el español :)
Finally poetry! Thank you.
it was time for some, indeed. Thanks!
εχω παθει πλακα, ειλικρινα αν ηξερα οτι ετσι ακουγοντουσαν τα αρχαια ελληνικα θα ειχα στρωθει στο διαβασμα, ευχαριστω και ελπιζω να ακολουθησει κοσμος την ερευνα σας!
Εὐχαριστῶ Γεώργιε, νά κι ἕνα εὐχάριστο σχόλιο σήμερα (ἀπὸ Ἕλληνα, οἱ ἄλλοι «δυστυχῶς» φθάσαμε νὰ τὰ γνωρίζουν καλλίτερα ἀπὸ τοὺς περισσοτέρους μας).
Ποτέ δὲν εἶναι ἀργὰ γιὰ τέτοιο διάβασμα ;-)
@@Podium-arts τι δε το ήξερες; Οι Έλληνες αν προσβληθεί η τιμή τους είναι ικανοί να καταρρίψουν ολόκληρη επιστήμη, αγαπητέ...
Σίγουρα ἀλλὰ πῶς μπορῇ ἡ προφορὰ νὰ προσβάλῃ τὴν τιμή; Ὅταν μάλιστα εἶναι καὶ σὲ μέγιστο βαθμὸ καταγεγραμμένες οἱ σχετικὲς μαρτυρίες...
Τα αρχαία ελληνικά ΔΕΝ ακούγονταν έτσι. Δεν θα μάθουμε ποτέ πώς ακριβώς προφέρονταν αλλά η συγκεκριμένη προφορά είναι κατασκευασμένη.
Οὔκ οἶσθα ὥς ἐμοί ἐισπνῶν εἶ͵ εὐχαριστῶ.
Εἴη σοι χάρις!
@@Podium-arts I really want to get some of your recordings but in my local money (peso) some cost the same like a minimun salarium, is a sad thing born in a poor country
Thank you very much for this
My pleasure :-)
Marvelous!
μερσί μαίτρ!
Κύριε Στρατάκη, τόν μέγιστον ἔπαινον λαμβάνετε! Πραγματικά συγχαρητήρια για το έργο ημών! Τα πάντα, από την προφορά του ύψιλον μέχρι και την προφορά των δασυνομένων φωνηέντων είναι άψογη. Πραγματικά, αμοιβή ενός μακροχρόνιου κόπου. Είμαι 18 ετών και ευελπιστώ να μάθω και εγώ εξίσου καλώς την αρχαία ελληνική γλώσσα.
Έχω δει σε άλλα σχόλια ότι έχετε αναφερθεί ιδιαιτέρως στην "άρνηση" των συγχρόνων Ελλήνων περί της προσφοράς της γλώσσας. Πιστεύω ότι η δική σας αναπαράσταση είναι κατά μακράν η ακριβέστατη. Αν και νομίζω, για μία λεπτομέρεια, ότι το Γ δεν προσφερόταν σκληρά, σαν "γκ" ή "γγ", αλλά πιο μαλακά νομίζω, όπως το άκουσα. Συν της προσφοράς του μη δασυνομένου ήτα.
Ἀφεῖκα καί ἄλλα σχόλια εἰς τοιούτον τόν τοῦ Διαδικτύου χῶρον, ἀλλά τοὺτον συμβαίνει διά τοῦ ἐνθουσιασμοῦ ἐμοῦ. Ἐλπίζω ὄτι καλῶς ἔχειν τήν ὁμιλίαν τῆς ἀρχαίας γλώσσης ἡμῶν.
εὐχαριστῶ καὶ πάλι :-) Εὔχομαι νὰ τὴν μάθῃς, εἶναι μία μακροχρόνια ἀπόλαυσι!
kalimera Ioannis. if you could answer my question please; it would be very helpful! what text did you use for this recording? it has digammas in it, and i would like to know which published texts of Odyssey have diagamma in them, alternatively; is this your own work? god bless. Henry
I don't know of any published text with the digamma's. This is my own inclusive version...
great work! :-)
Thanks 🙏
Amazing!
Thanks!
με αφορμη το περιστατικο με την σαγιοναρα βρεθηκα εδω . Μενω εκπληκτος και νιωθω δεος με αυτο που ακούω .
Διακρίνω μια μικρη ηχητικη ομοιοτητα με τα νορβηγικά , και νιωθω πως αν υπηρχαν θεοί κάπως 'ετσι θα ακούγονταν , καμία σχέση με αυτό που νομιζα για το πως ακουγονται τα αρχαια ελληνικα και ομολογω πως θα ειχα τελείως διαφορετικό ενδιαφέρον για τα αρχαία ελληνικά αν άκουγα οταν τα μαθαινα αυτο που ακούω τωρα . Βέβαια ποτέ δεν είναι αργά και χαίρομαι πολύ που ηρθα σε επαφη με αυτο που ακούω τώρα.
εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὸ σχόλιό σας (καὶ τὴν παντόφλα εὐχαριστῶ)... Ναί, ἀποκτοῦν κάποια ἐπὶ πλέον ἠχοχρώματα τὰ ἀρχαιότερα κείμενα τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς, ποὺ μοιάζουν μὲ τὶς συγγενεῖς εὐρωπαϊκὲς βόρειες προφορές, ἀλλὰ κάπως ἔτσι τὰ περιέγραψαν οἱ παλαιοὶ γραμματικοὶ καὶ ῥήτορες...
@@Podium-arts ας ευχαριστώ και εγώ για αυτό που έχετε καταφέρει με τόση προσπάθεια .
Είναι πολύ όμορφο όποτε μέσα στην παρακμή που μας περιτριγυρίζει και μας ελέγχει, να βρίσκουμε οάσεις εμπνευσης και ουσίας ώστε να πάρει δύναμη να συνεχίσει ο κάθε ελεύθερος νους .
Να είστε καλά !
Very nice. One question though: in a theatre performance of parts of the odyssee in Ancient Greek I saw years ago, they used a reconstructed pronounciation quite a lot like yours except that ou (Greek) was pronounced long [o:] (half closed) followed by a strong semivowel [w], omega was [O:] (so long half-open vowel) and upsilon was an [u] sound (like look, or book). Your pronounciation has it as [y] (palatal like ü in German, or u in French) while ou is [u]. Was the one I heard more archaic?
Dear Henno, (of zou ik zeggen Beste mr. Brandsma?) there are some divergencies as regards the rendition of Ancient Greek. We have no clear evidence of "if and when" this particular diphthong has been or changed from a clear "o:w" finally to a simple [u], either internal in Greek or external from neighbouring languages. It's also possible that the actors had been taught the US Erasmian variation, who pronounce the Y as [u].
What I do with this diphthong is positioning sequentially the speaking organs as described by Dionysius of Halicarnassus... Because of the acoustic similarity of the [o] & [u] they often sound as a simple [u], but I keep forming both. According to the context they sometimes sound indeed "oü" and sometimes just [u]. I decided not to change this and let it follow the speaking stream, taking it as influence of the surrounding phonemic environment.
Another reason, or excuse if you prefer, for this "oü" sound is that the epics were written down by Athenians, using their writing system, so the texts we have are already a sonic approximation. At that time the Athenian Y was an "ü", so I just keep it that way if it occurs. But never in the [au/eu] diphthongs, where it just gets the known “u‘ or "w" qualities (maybe because of the impractical distance of A and E to the Ü?)
So, indeed, what you heard can be considered a more archaic version of the pronunciation by some theorists, but if they want to go so far, they also have to include the digamma, which is missing from the Homeric texts as we have them.
Ik hoop naar behoren e/o tevredenheid uw vraag te hebben beantwoord, zij het zo laat... Ik was laatst met vacantie op de bergen en de omnipresente moderne apparatuur was eindelijk niet altijd functioneel!
mvg Ioannis
@@Podium-arts depth of knowledge is breathtaking
Thanks Sam
Good day, Mr. Stratakis. May I ask about the controversy regarding your pronounciation? I've watched several of your videos and noticed the criticism of some Greeks in the comment sections. (I even tried to translate the Greek comments using the google to get a better understanding). And from what I can understand so far is that there is this great divide in pronounciation of ancient Greek - Erasmian (modernized, not his 1400s) pronounciation vs Modern Greek pronounciation.
Judging by the criticism of those Greeks, are you using the modernized Erasmian version? (I'm sorry, I'm not a student of the language, so I cannot tell) Or is your pronounciation something different? What I'm most curious about is what is your opinion on Erasmian pronounciation that is taught in most European universities? Does it come close to your pronounciation? (closer than Modern Greek?)
I'd be very glad if you could enlighten me.
Dear "cauldronjoty", excuse me for the delayed response.
Actually I don't see or feel it as a controversy between pronunciations, but between knowledge and opinion. My recordings are the product of my own years-long (let's call it) research at first and foremost within the writings of ancient Greek authors (and a number of Roman ones who referred to Greek grammarians of their time, or gave hints of what they could hear as live spoken Greek). Later on I've read a lot of more recent authors, mostly non-Greeks since the latter didn't really write about pronunciation.
The famous work ("De recta Latini Grecique sermonis pronuntiatione") of Erasmus I've only recently managed to find in "readable" form and it presents a very close guess of what the ancients themselves wrote, but it is an hypothesis without bringing any "proofs" of something, or call any names on the subject - at least until the point I've reached in reading it.
The biggest problem of the contemporary rendering of the Erasmian hypothesis is that one immediately hears where the speaker comes from... As it is (superficially) taught in most European universities no attention is been paid to the phonemic characteristics and environment of the Greek language, which I believe also lies at the root of non-acceptance by common contemporary Greeks and not so much the linguistic changes throughout the long history of the language.
I naturally take as the base of reconstruction 1) the ancient writings, 2) the modern Greek pronunciation because many ancient descriptions coincide with it recognizably and it's the first place to look for when descriptions are not clear or exact, 3) the "forgotten" fact that ancient Greek used to be a real, spoken language and not signs on paper or stone (as we have learned to approach it), with whatever this may mean when one tries to reconstruct it.
Personally, after trying to read/speak in reconstructed anc-GR, I don't find it so different from modern GR in its core, though this might just be a sign that it feels a bit familiar to me after so many years...
This so called Erasmian controversy is no such thing. Mr. Stratakis’s pronunciation is basically restored Ancient Greek, the basis of which is well documented in Allen’s “Vox Graeca” and much recent scholarship.
Τέλεια ευθυγραμμισμένο με τη νεοταξική διδασκαλία περί ινδοευρωπαικών και ινδογερμανικων θεωριών και αρχαίων γερμανών.Ισως να μην είναι τυχαίο που πολλοί σας μάθαμε αυτές τις μέρες έστω και πλαγίως στη γιορτή τους για την αποκαθήλωση της δημοκρατίας και την αποδόμηση του πολιτισμού τη στιγμή που έκαιγαν τη χώρα.
Φίλε σύνελθε... :-D
Good to hear Ancient Greek told by Greeks. After Stephen Daitz. With some digammas... Homer on a spoken way. Why not ? Best, Philippe Brunet
I'm honoured to be spoken by a master! thanks for taking the time listening and commenting :-)
It was indeed time to have a Greek try to recite the old writings but nobody did it, so I took the challenge :-D
I must congratulate you for your work, I've watched some videos with "Demodocus" and I like your esthetics, they have been inspiring to me (more than Stephen Daitz's exaggerated work to tell my truth).
Are you still performing sometimes?
@@Podium-arts Yes of course, we are going on. Performing in Ancient Greek and also in my metrical French translation. And also with puppets. Someday I'll give something on YT. Some recordings on Alain Michon website.
This is marvellous indeed, I think you have the proper pronunciation,
Although that seems combined with the modern Greek "stress" accent and not the actual ancient "pitch" accent.
Still very beautiful narration,
I hope I could find it one day recited with the original dactylic exameter.
Thank you for your work
Thanks for listening & commenting LS :-) Now, to tell you my opinion about the so called difference of melodic vs dynamic accent. I don't know of any language which uses just either of them. The all use both. For me, the difference is one of mental emphasis to what to listen to. I've also learned at school that "accents show when we say something louder", which didn't describe all the rest the vocal sound is carrying, but as many other things was a shortcut of a fully detailed reality. If the Ancients have pronounce only "melodically", how is it possible to describe a cry of pain, for example? There are interjections, still being used today, which are written with the usual 3 accents, but they show also a dynamic variation as well. In old texts there is clear statement of both melodic and dynamic aspects of speaking, as being two different things. But no, the dynamic part (comes in the "Rhetoric" of Aristotle) is about a speech, not about a syllable or phoneme. Thus what I believe is that as today we "think" that accents are dynamic signs, but still carry melodic characteristics, in ancient times they thought that the melodic aspect was more valuable paying attention to. The funny thing is that "people" think that this "loss" of the melodic accent in Greek occurred by the advent of the Romans. But their grammarians clearly state that their language had the same of similar accents to the Greek, even giving them the same names.
What should one conclude from all that? That they and we altogether, spoke like robots? Maybe they spoke in the same robotic loudness on more tones and we speak in different degrees of loudness on the same robotic monotone :-D I don't believe it...
.
About the hexameter, I suspect you mean a strictly rhythmical recitation in one tempo. I'm also not persuaded that this has been the practice. What about verses with a lot of longs, the caesuras, the syntactical differences and the split sentences that meet later after a couple of lines? It's a different thing to practice strictly in tempo, in order to get a feel of the metre and another to recite like telling a story. MHO, as usual.
@@Podium-arts Thank you for your kind and detailed response,
I completely appreciate your reasoning, it's unlikely people would have been robots, they had a variety of different phonetics on their speech, much more complex than what 3 tones and 2 breathings would denote.
Well, then on the same argument,
Isn't easy for somebody to reason, that what we today call dipthong,
didn't sound like two completely separated vowels ?
Why would they have to go through that many vowels separately for words like 'Αχαιοι' or 'Οικοι' ? (And maybe even a bit robotically again)
Isn't it fair then that if they did,
Then it didn't take that long to switch to dipthongs ?
@@Podium-arts Hi there Stratakis! If you're still open to having that conversation about what light Japanese pitch accent can shine on ancient Greek let me know! :-)
@@lespil2253 I think the issue with the argument is that the people making it are almost always not so familiar with the diversity of world languages. Long sequences of vowels and pitch accent without any phonemic stress accent are both perfectly normal features of human language.
@LeSpil right, let me ask in response why should they write the "I" sound in 7 different ways in the first place? or 2 o's and e's.
It's believed that the diphthongs at a certain time, place, milieu started to melt the 2 vowels into a new one. This is only natural to happen, especially when people gradually stop pronouncing the long vowels. For me this is no belief, I've seen it written in the work of a certain grammarian, described exactly like this, but he has been of a "late" period.
Regarding your question, the subordinate vowels (ὑποτακτικὰ φωνήεντα, υ καὶ ι) don't function (or are pronounced) as vowels when second part of a diphthong, but are "glides", as they are called. So when you see them in Ἀχαιοί & οἶοι & Αἶαι κ.λπ. you should expect them sounding as "Achayóy" etc This is different in earlier word forms like πάϝις > πάϊς > παῖς etc. So diphthongs don't cause hiatus because of the subordinate vowels.
Was the /w/ consonant used by Homer?
Nobody knows any more. But... in the epics there are metrical anomalies in places where a digamma (the "w" sound) is expected. The fact that the homeric dialect contains a lot of Aeolic elements/forms justifies its presence. That it hasn't been written comes from the Attic dialect, which didn't use it at the time of the first writing down of the Homeric texts. Of course there are places where a digamma is expected but pronouncing it would now produce an anomaly... Then I silence it, or pronounce it faster so it doesn't disturb the meter. Seems to me the most "logical" solution.
Τρομερή δουλειά! Φαίνεται πόσο έχεις εξασκηθεί για να καταφέρεις να χρησιμοποιείς έτσι μάλιστα την αρχαία ελληνική προφορά! Συγχαρητήρια! [Επίσης: 1. Εξεπλάγην όταν είδα δίγαμμα! 2. Στο 0:53 το ΗFελίοιο (συγγνώμη που το 'γραψα έτσι αλλά δεν έχω αρχαιοελληνικό πληκτρολόγιο) μόνο εμένα μου φάνηκε και αστείο μα και δύσκολο μαζί;]
Εὐχαριστῶ Γεώργιε :-) ναί, ἔχει πέσει πολύχρονη ἐργασία καὶ συνεχίζεται μετὰ πάσης δυνατῆς λεπτομερίας.
Ευχαριστούμε με Στρατάκη, είναι από τις πιο αποκαλυπτικές περίοδος που έχω ακούσει! Εξεπλάγην που οι δίφθογγοι ακούγονται σαν ξεχωριστά φωνήεντα, όπως στην Ερασμια... Πόσο ακριβές είναι αυτό, από ερευνητικής πλευράς?
Ἀκριβέστατον... Διον.Ἁλικ. Περὶ Συνθέσεως Ὀνομάτων κεφ 24, ὅπου τὸ ὅλον ἔργο ἀσχολεῖται μὲ τὴν «κατασκευὴ» ὁμιλίας στὴν οὐσία. ἈΠὸ τὸ κεφάλαιο 12 καὶ ἐφεξῆς περιγράφει τὴν προφορὰ τῶν στοιχείων καὶ πρὸς τὸ τέλος, ὅταν ἀναλύῃ τὴν «αὐστηρὰν ἁρμονία» ἐξετάζων τὸν λόγο τοῦ Θουκυδίδου ἀναφέρει ἐπανηλειμμένως λέξεις μὲ τὴν δίφθογγον ΑΙ, ἀλλὰ ἀκόμη καὶ τὴν μακρὰ ἐκδοχήν της [ᾳ], ὅπου κι ἐκεῖ παρατηρεῖ καὶ περιγράφει τὸ ἀνάλογο φαινόμενο.
Μὰς δὲν χρειάζεται νὰ πάμε μακρυά... ἡ λέξις «φθόγγος» οὐδέποτε σήμανε κάτι ὀπτικῆς φύσεως. Δίφθογγος εἶναι δύο ἦχοι συλλαμβανόμενοι εἰς συλλαβήν, ὄχι ὁμοφωνοῦντες. Καὶ σήμερα ἔχομε: ΕΥ = έφ/έβ τὸ Φ καὶ Β εἶναι ξεχωριστὸ φώνημα... Μόνον οἱ λήγουσες σὲ Ι δίφθογγοι μονοφωνήθησαν.
Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὸν σχόλιό σας.
Καταλαβαίνω, ευχαριστώ πολύ για την απάντηση αλλά κ για τα audio books. Θα τα ακούσω. Να είστε καλά!!
You have to put it at 1.25 speed for it to be anywhere near realistic in the way people actually speak, maybe even as fast as 1.5.
it's a compromise... many people are just students asking for slower speed and I think that epic wasn't and shouldn't be like normal speech. But of course there are places that normal or fast speech is more effective, which is not the case (for my taste) at the beginning of the Odyssey
Προσφέρετε υπηρεσίες μαθημάτων στην αττική προφορά και στην κλασσική Ελληνική γλώσσα στο ανοικτό κοινό;
καμμιὰ φορὰ κάνω ὁμιλίες καὶ σὲ φιλικὰ πρόσωπα ἐξηγῶ τὸ ἕνα καὶ τὸ ἄλλο. Μαθήματα μὲ τὴν παραδοσιακὴ ἔννοια δὲν ἔτυχε νὰ παραδώσω, ἂν καὶ ὑπάρχει ἐνδιαφέρον.
What does the "F" mean in your text? I don't see that in other versions of this text.
It's the letter digamma
Btw what do you think of the idea that Attic οι could have been realized as [øi̯] rather than [oi̯]
if this has happened the most probable period is after the 6th century CE, when there's written evidence that diphthongs sounded like a new sound, a mix, "between" the two written vowels. So then one actually can go more towards ö/ø than oj/öj/øj... For the previous period, before people would confuse ΟΙ with Υ one could pronounce OI as ØJ since the short O was "dark", closed... One has to keep in mind that the phonetic environment can change the sound according to what comes before or after a certain syllable. In short, my answer is "yes" it is plausible.
Gosh this voice is so sexy haha
Is this Homeric Greek?
Yes, this is it... You can't get more homeric :-)
was it not sung? or with a simple music accompaniment?
not in the original; "officially" Terpander was the first to sing the narrated homeric poems. Later in the Panathenaea there were also singing competitions on excerpts of homeric poetry.
thank you, I've discovered a very good channel AND learned something valuable
happy to hear :-)
Πάντως με αυτή την προφορά, η αρχαία ελληνική φαίνεται να έχει αρκετά κοινά με τη λατινική στην προφορά. Ποια είναι η γνώμη σας κύριε Στρατάκη;
ἔχει πολλὰ κοινὰ ἔτσι ὄχι μόνον μὲ τὴν Λατινική ἀλλὰ καὶ μὲ ἅπασες τὶς γλῶσσες τῶν γειτονικῶν καὶ μὴ λαῶν... τότε καὶ τώρα. Θὰ σᾶς εἶναι γνωστὴ ἡ μανία τῶν συγχρόνων νὰ μετατρέπουν τὸ b σὲ v (Μπακάλης σὲ Βακάλης, Μπουτζᾶς σὲ Βουτσᾶς, Μπογδᾶνος σὲ Βογδᾶνος, Μπαρθελόνα σὲ Βαρκελώνη κ.ο.κ.) μὲ τὴν «δικαιολογία» ὅτι οἱ μαλακοὶ αὐτοὶ ἦχοι εἶναι σημεῖον «πολιτισμοῦ» καὶ μόνον ἐμεῖς μπλὰ μπλὰ μπλά... Νά ποὺ ὅμως ἡ ὁμιλουμένη «ἐκδικεῖται» καὶ ὅλο συχνότερα προφέρουν (οἱ πολλοί) τὰ γγ/γκ, μπ, ντ ὡς gbd (ἄgελος -μαμμά μου! σύbαν, ἔdομα κ.λπ. ἀπαίσια) κι ἂς εἶναι ἀπὸ ἔλλειψι παιδείας, νομοθετημένη ἢ μὴ διδασκαλικὴ ἀνοχή ἢ καὶ ἡμιμάθεια ξένων γλωσσῶν - ποὺ σημειωτέον, τὶς ξένες γλῶσσες προσπαθοῦμε νὰ τὶς προφέρωμε «σωστά», μὴν μᾶς ποῦνε καὶ ἀμόρφωτους!...
@@Podium-arts ενδιαφέρον
@Vasileios Voutsinos η προφορά που λέτε και συμφωνώ είναι σύμφωνα με τί μπορούσαν να προφέρουν ή σύμφωνα με το τί θέλουν να αποδείξουν?
Τὰ δικά μου ἠχογραφήματα βασίζονται σὲ ἑλληνικὲς πηγές (καὶ ὄχι στὸ τί θέλουν νὰ ἀποδείξουν οἱ ἑκατέρωθεν "ἐκκλησίες")
λίην γὰρ κατὰ κόσμον Ἀχαιῶν οἶτον ἀείδεις,
ὅσσ᾿ ἔρξαν τ᾿ ἔπαθόν τε καὶ ὅσσ᾿ ἐμόγησαν Ἀχαιοί,
ὥς τέ που ἢ αὐτὸς παρεὼν ἢ ἄλλου ἀκούσας.
Φεῦ, οὐ γὰρ Δημόδοκός εἰμι, ἔξοχα δή βροτῶν οὐ πᾶσιν αἰνίζομαι... :-D
Χάριν λάβε, ὑπ' ἐμοῦ, τοῦ παλαιοῦ λόγου πένητος ὑπηρέτου.
Weren't the epics sung?
At a later period (classical and on) parts of them were sung. It's doubtful if that were happening earlier. There was an ancient saying "Ὁμήρου μὲν τὰ ἔπη, Τερπάνδρου δὲ τὰ μέλη". Also the word "epos" is closer and related to the word for "declare" or "I stand for/behind my words" than any word about singing. But artists are allowed "poetic license" :-)
@@Podium-arts that's cool 😎
does anyone know about ancient greek and can explain why it sounds closer to the way english or german classicists read ancient greek, with the EY as an EÜ sound instead EV or TH as hard T? I was really suprised that it sounded very smooth "european" in a way without any throaty CH sounds and so on...
This is based on descriptions of ancient grammarians, it's not otherwise related to something else
thx for the quick response, are you referring to someone specific?
@@Mina-pq4ml much collected in Christides' "history of ancient Greek" CUP, or S.Allen "Vox Graeca". I used mainly Plato, Dionysius, Aristotle, Aristides Q. a.o.
I am waiting for the mass in Hagia Sophia Church, in koine greek.
You will never stop waiting, then.
@@James-ky3ip
You never know.
*Λατρεμένη ερμηνεία από μια γλυκύτατη φωνή!* Σκέφτομαι να ξεκινήσω να διαβάζω τους Ποιητές, μόλις ξεμπερδέψω φέτος με τις Πανελλήνιες· και πάντα με αρχαία προφορά. Φυσικά στόχος μου είναι ο Όμηρος και οι από καρδίας αγαπημένες μου Οδύσσεια και Ιλιάδα. Όμως, θα μπορούσατε να μου προτείνετε τυχόν «προκαταρκτικά» ποιήματα για να με εντάξουν στο πνεύμα του μέτρου; Επίσης, θα μπορούσατε να μου δώσετε οδηγίες για την αρχαία προφορά; Εκείνος ο Διονύσιος ο Θραξ, αναρωτιέμαι, σε ποιο έργο του γράφει γι’ αυτή…
Νὰ εἶσαι καλά Μιχάλη :-) Καλλίτερα νὰ ἀρχίσῃς κατ᾽ εὐθεῖαν μὲ τὸ δακτυλικὸ ἑξάμετρο, νομίζω εἶναι τὸ εὐκολώτερο ὅλων τῶν μέτρων. Ῥῖξε μιὰ ματιὰ σὲ κάποιο βιβλίο Μετρικῆς γιὰ νὰ ἔχῃς μιὰν ἰδέα περὶ τίνος πρόκειται γενικά. Ἂν θέλῃς νὰ βρεῖς προκαταρτικὰ γιὰ τὰ φωνήματα τῆς ἀρχαίας (ἀττικῆς) δὲς στὸ Udemy τὸ Ancient Greek Phonetics. Ἕνα καλὸ ἔργο μὲ πολλὲς πληροφορίες εἶναι τὸ «Ἱστορία τῆς Ἀρχαίας Ἑλληνικῆς Γλώσσας» τοῦ Α.Φ.Χρηστίδη κ.ἄ., ΑΠΘ. Ἀναφέρει καὶ πάμπολλὲς πηγές. Ἀλλιῶς διάβασε τὸ «Περὶ Συνθέσεως Ὀνομάτων» τοῦ Διονυσίου Ἁλικαρνασέως. Σ᾽αὐτὴν τὴν περίπτωσι θὰ χρειασθοῦν κι ἄλλες πολλὲς ἀναγνώσεις, ὁπότε γιὰ συντομία τὸ πρῶτο θὰ σὲ βοηθήσῃ πιὸ στοχευμένα.
Καλὴ τύχη!
@@Podium-arts Ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ! Ανυπομονώ να ξεκινήσω!
@@Michael5iLVEr τι σπουδαζεις αν επιτρέπεται?
@@jimjim3979 Μουσικολογία
δεν καταλαβαίνω γιατί κάποιοι κατακρίνουν την δουλεία σας, ιδικά Κύπριοι, Πόντιοι και Κριτικοί που θυμούνται την τοπική τους προφορά πρέπει να μπορούν να το καταλάβουν ότι μια χαρά Ελληνικά είναι απλός σε μια παλιότερη μορφή.
Τὸ κακὸ μὲ τοὺς κατακριτὲς εἶναι ὅτι 1) εἶναι ἀπληροφόρητοι, 2) δυστυχῶς ἀνήκουν σὲ μία γενιὰ ποὺ (ὑποσυνείδητα;) θεωρεῖ τὴν «ἐπαρχιωτικὴ» προφορὰ ἴσως «κατώτερη», 3) ἔχουν ἀκούσει πολλὰ ἄτοπα (π.χ. πὼς ὅποιος πρεσβεύει προφορὰ διαφορετικὴ ἀπὸ τῶν «καναλιῶν» ἢ τοῦ «δρόμου» ἔχει σκοπὸ νὰ διαβρώσῃ τὸν πολιτισμό μας, τὸ κράτος μας, τὴν θρησκεία μας καὶ «νὰ ξεμπερδεύῃ μὲ μᾶς» ἐν ὀλίγοις) καὶ ἀντιδροῦν αὐτομάτως σὰν τὰ κουρδισμένα ἀνδρείκελα.
Τὸ ὄνειδος εἶναι ὅτι ἀρχαῖα κείμενα καὶ ἐνδείξεις ὁδηγοῦν σὲ κάπως διαφορετικὴ προφορά (ποὺ δὲν διαφέρει καὶ τόσο νομίζω μετὰ ἀπὸ λίγα λεπτὰ ἀκρόασης). Οἱ κατακριταὶ παραλογίζονται, ἐπικαλούμενοι μίαν δῆθεν «Ἑλληνικότητα» χωρὶς κἄν νὰ διαβάσουν τὰ βασικὰ κείμενα ποὺ τὴν καθορίζουν, τὴν ὁποίαν μάλιστα ὑπερασπίζονται μέσῳ ὕβρεων.
Μένει γιὰ αὐτοὺς μόνον ἡ ἐλπίδα νὰ ξυπνήσουν ἀναρωτώμενοι ἀπὸ ποῦ ἀντλοῦν τὴν τόση βεβαιότητά των...
Φίλε εγώ δεν κρίνω αυτή τη δουλειά και είμαι Κύπριος. Απεναντίας η δική μου εμπειρία μού απέδειξε ότι αυτοί που κρίνουν εμάς τους Κυπρίους επιδή μιλάμε τη γλώσσα διαφορετικά και όχι με την δήθεν καθαρή προφορά της αθηναϊκής διαλέκτου είναι οι Αθηναίοι. Προσωπικά θα προτιμούσα να επιστρέφαμε όλοι στις αρχαίες ρίζες μας γιατί η γλώσσα μας σήμερα, ανεξαρτήτως διαλέκτου, έχει υποστεί τόσες αποκοπές, ας μου επιτραπεί ο όρος, που έχει χάσει την ακρίβεια που είχε κάποτε και αναφέρομαι τόσο στην προφορά όσο και στη σύνταξη. Ευχαριστώ.
Φίλε ΤΒ, μὴν δίδῃς σημασία σὲ κατακριτὲς γλωσσῶν ἢ διαλέκτων, εἶναι δεῖγμα... ὄχι πάντως ὀξείας ἀντιλήψεως. Φυσικὰ μιὰ ὁμοιόμορφη προφορὰ (ὑποτίθεται) προάγει τὴν πολιτιστικὴ ἑνότητα τῶν κρατῶν, μὲ ὅ,τι αὐτὴ συνεπάγεται, ἀλλὰ οἱ ἄνθρωποι θὰ ἔπρεπε νὰ καμαρώνουν γιὰ τὴν τοπικὴ προφορά τους καὶ νὰ τὴν τιμοῦν.
Νὰ σοῦ πῶ ὅτι ἡ Κυπριακὴ διάλεκτος μοῦ ἔλυσε κάποιες ἀμφιβολίες προφορᾶς τῆς ἀρχαίας Ἑλληνικῆς (ἂν μπορῇ νὰ γενικευθεῖ αὐτή), συγκεκριμένα γιὰ τὰ δίδυμα σύμφωνα καὶ κυρίως τὸ γράμμα Ζ. Εἶχα τὴν τύχη νὰ γνωρίσω ἕνα (μακαρίτη δυστυχῶς τώρα) ἡλικιώτη Κύπριο διπλωμάτη στὶς Βρυξέλλες ποὺ ὅταν ἔλεγε λέξεις μὲ τὸ Ζ μοῦ ἔκανε «κλίκ» σχετικὰ μὲ τὸν λόγο ποὺ ὁ ἦχος του στὴν ἀρχαιότητα περιγράφεται μὲ 3 διαφορετικοὺς τρόπους (ποὺ προφανῶς ἰσχύουν καὶ οἱ τρεῖς, ἔστω καὶ σὲ διαφορετικὲς περιπτώσεις). Ὅπως τὸ προέφερε μποροῦσα νὰ ἀκούσω καὶ τὶς 3 περιγραφὲς ταυτόχρονα, ποὺ ἀλλιῶς θὰ παρέμενε πηγὴ ἀμφιβολιῶν κ.ο.κ.
Ἂς ἀναπαύεται ἐν εἰρηνῃ.
Εὐχαριστῶ γιὰ τὸ σχόλιό σου!
Μπραβο!
Εὐχαριστῶ :-)
You just forgot the music ... >.
This one is without, it's a sample of an audiobook
Thankfully. :)
εξηγησε μου γτ το θητα αλλοτε το προφερεις οποως σημερα κ αλλοτε ως τ.Το ιδιο κανεις κ σε αλλα γραμματα το δελτα για παράδειγμα,που το προφερεις κ ως ντ.Αποφασισε.
Εγώ το ίδιο προφέρω (σαν μηχανισμό) αλλά καμμιά φορά ακούγονται αλλιώς για διάφορους λόγους (ακροατής, επεξεργασία TH-cam, πιθανά σφάλματα δικά μου). Το τ που ακούς αντί για θ, είναι τ+δασύ πνεύμα· απλώς επειδή δεν τα λέμε έτσι σήμερα δεν έχουμε μάθει να τα διακρίνουμε... κλπ
Διονύσιος ὁ Θράξ(170-90 μ.Χ) στὸ κεφάλαιο περὶ στοιχείου:
[...] «ἄφωνα δέ ἐστιν ἐννέα· β γ δ κ π τ θ φ χ ... τούτων ψιλά μὲν ἐστι τρία, κ π τ, δασέα τρία, θ φ χ, μέσα δὲ τούτων τρία, β γ δ. μέσα δὲ εἴρηται, ὅτι τῶν μὲν ψιλῶν ἐστι δασύτερα, τῶν δὲ δασέων ψιλότερα. καὶ ἔστι τὸ μὲν β μέσον τοῦ π καὶ φ, τὸ δὲ γ μέσον τοῦ κ καὶ χ, τὸ δὲ δ μέσον τοῦ θ καὶ τ.»
Τὸ β λοιπόν εἶναι μέσον τοῦ π καὶ φ, που σημαίνει, ὅτι εἶναι αδύνατον να τὸ ποῦμε «μπ» διότι τότες θα ήταν με τὰ ψιλὰ κ π τ!
Ἡ λέξη «ἱππῆς» ποὺ εἶναι μάλιστα στὸν πληθυντικὸν ἀριθμό καὶ ἀναφέρεται στον Ἀριστοφάνη, ἐγράφετο μέχρι τὸ 400 π.Χ με δωρικὸν «η» ἀντὶ του γνωστοῦ ἀττικοῦ ἱππεῖς με «ει».
Ἄρα δεν εἶναι δυνατόν τὸ «η» νά προφέρεται ὣς μακρὸν «ε», ἐφόσον ἀντιστοιχεῖ στο «ει».
Ἐπίσης γνωρίζουμε ἀπὸ τὴ γραμματικὴ, ὅτι τὰ μακρὰ φωνήεντα γίγνονται ἀπὸ τὰ βραχέα με τὸ δίγαμμα(ϝ) καὶ κατόπιν οἱ δίφθογγοι.
π.χ ἀπό τὸ...
α = αϝ = αυ καὶ αι
η = εϝ = ευ καὶ ει
ω = οϝ = ου καὶ οι κοκ.
Στήν ἰδικὴ μας περίπτωση τὸ η = εϝ, συνεπῶς τὸ εϝ = ει.
Τὸ «ει» λοιπόν, θα εἶναι μονοφθογγιζόμενον, καθὼς καὶ ὁ πρόγονος τοῦ τὸ εϝ(προφερόμενον «ἐβ») καὶ δε γίνεται τὸ ἔνα νὰ εἶναι μονοφθογγιζόμενο καὶ τὸ ἄλλο όχι. Κατάρριψη λοιπόν καὶ τῆς θεωρίας τοῦ Ἐράσμου ποὺ λέει, οἱ δίφθογγοι νὰ προφέρονται ξεχωριστά.
Στὸ βιβλίο «περί τῆς γνήσιας προφορᾶς τῆς ἑλληνικῆς γλῶσσης» γράφει τα ἑξῆς: "τὸ η ἦτο ὁμόφωνον τῆς ει, καὶ αὕτη πάλι καὶ τοῦ ι, διότι οἱ Βιωτοί ἔγραφον διὰ τῆς ει καὶ τοῦ ι, τὰ παρ΄Ἀττικοῖς γραφόμενα δια τοῦ η καὶ ι(ὡς ἰρείνα κτλ.), καὶ τὸ υ ὡμοφώνει με τὴν οι καὶ το ι, διότι οἱ Αἰολεῖς ἔλεγον ἴψος καὶ ὕψος κτλ."(σελ. 691)
Τὸ «η» ὡς μακρόν «ε».
Σημειωτέον, ὅτι τὸ «εϝ» δίδει καὶ τὸ «εε» συνεπῶς τὸ «ε» μακρόν, τὸ οποῖον ὑπάρχει στην αἰολικὴ διάλεκτο. Τὸ διπλὸ αἰολικό «εε» ὅμως δίνει «η» καὶ «ει» στην δωρικὴν καὶ ἀττικὴν διάλεκτον ἀντιστοίχως. Τὸ μακρὸν «ε» ὑπάρχει καὶ στα λατινικὰ Aristotēlēs, ὅπου τὸν Ἀριστοτέλη τὸν γράφει με δύο μακρὰ ē, διότι τὸ τονούμενον «ē» εἶναι πιό μακρὸν ἀπὸ τὸ βραχὺ «ē» καὶ τὸ «Η» εἶναι ἀντίστοιχον τοῦ «ē» μακρόν.
Ο Διονύσιος Θ καλά τα λέει, απλώς επιμένετε να μην προσέχετε Τί σημαίνει φωνή, άφωνο, ημίφωνο.
Την υποθεσι ότι το δίγαμμα μακραίνει τα φωνήεντα την έχω ξανακούσει από κάτι μπουρδολόγους, λυπάμαι που το λέγω. Δεν είναι αδύνατον να υπήρξε σε κάποιες περιπτώσεις αφομοίωση με το προηγούμενο φωνήεν αλλά το να το καθιστά κάποιος ευφάνταστος κανόνα μας παραπέμπει στην προκρούστειο κλίνη.
Οι βοιωτοί στην αρχαιότητα ευρώ Ρούντι ούτως ή άλλως αγράμματοι (παρά τους σπουδαίους ποιητές τους που περιέργως δικάστηκαν εκτός Βοιωτίας).
Δυστυχώς απαντώ από τηλέφωνακι κ δεν μπορώ να σας απαντήσω εκτενώς. Σε λίγες μέρες ίσως δοθεί η ευκαιρία.
Ευχαριστώ για το σχόλιό σας
Ευρω Ρούντι : εθεωρούντο
Εκδικάστηκαν : διεκρίθησαν
(Αυτόματος διόρθωσις των τηλεφώνων δήθεν...)
Τι να πω φιλε μου,αν η απαντηση σου είναι πως οι Βοιωτοι ηταν αγραμματοι,λες κ τους ηξερες εσυ,τοτε τι να πω.Ακομα κ σημερα υπαρχουν αγραμματοι κ ομιλουν μερικες φορες καλυτερα την Ελληνικη,απο τους δηθεν μορφωμένους.Περιμενω την απαντηση σου κ μην μου δωσεις κ συ την γνωστη απαντηση με την φραση του Κρατινου με το προβατο κ το βη βη,γτ προβατο,οι Ιωνες ελεγαν κ τα αλογα,τις καμηλους,τα γουρούνια(Ηρόδοτος),η λεξη βγαινει από το προς κ βαινω.
Η γλώσσα ελληνικά είναι εύκολα παρα πολύ για μας ό γαλλικός
εὐχάριστο νέο 🙂
Εμένα γιατί μου θυμίζει γερμανική προφορά; Πρώτη φορά ακούω κείμενο με την αρχαία προφορά!!
εἶναι συγγενεῖς οἱ γλῶσσες, ἁπλῶς ἐδῶ μὲ τοὺς αἰῶνες καὶ ἐπαφὴ μὲ τοὺς γύρω ἐπεκράτησαν «μαλακώτερες» προφορές
Διότι πολύ απλά επινοήθηκε από Γερμανούς οι οποίοι δεν μπορούσαν να προφέρουν τα ελληνικά. Δεν υπήρξε ποτέ τέτοια προφορά.
"Οι Γερμανοί είναι φίλοι μας;" Πολλές ταινίες έβλεπες μικρός :-)
¡¡Resulta divertido escuchar griego antiguo con acento inglés!! :-D
Gracias por tomarse el tiempo, pero ¿estás seguro de que describes correctamente lo que escuchas?
Y a mí me resulta chistoso leer a comentarios de esta índole, dado que están faltos de cualquier sentido! De que manera esta lectura de la Odisea en dialecto homérico tiene acento inglés? Y si tiene, de que región? Me gustaría saberlo.
:-D
Is this divine language ?
well, it can be elevating some times... :-D
The only reading that can compete with this is the one at th-cam.com/video/MOvVWiDsPWQ/w-d-xo.html
Oh wait! That was you, too.
well, same person, indeed. But this time I recorded the whole rhapsody
προσκυνῶ
τὸ ἐκτιμῶ, ἀλλὰ ἂν πονέσῃ ἡ μέση σου δὲν θὰ μοῦ ζητᾷς τὰ ῤἐστα ἐλπίζω!
@@Podium-arts το μόνο που ζητάω είναι περισσότερα τέτοια βίντεο 😊
Έχεις συγκεκριμένα έργα στον νου σου;
@@Podium-arts τον λόγο υπέρ του αδυνάτου, του Λυσία
Why not read it in hexameter tho
Isn't it in hexameter? Probably you mean a "school" rendering, giving emphasis on a strict rhythmic reading all in the same tempo, accenting the (irrelevant for Greek poetry) "ictus" etc. Hm, the divisions are there, if you can hear them, the tempo though is movable according to my interpretation of the intention of the poetic text. Otherwise what is the use of cesura's, of bridges, of (many) spondee's etc than exactly not to make it sound mechanical? From a prosodian's point of view a "school" rendering is only a good exercise. And, it's an epic poem, not a melic one (ἔπος vs. μέλος).
euh je crois qu'il y a l'histoire de Homer simspons en français XD😂
;-)
Is this how really ancient greek sounded like or just hipothesis.
Dear friend, we have no sound recording from 2-3 thousand years ago. What we have is written evidence mainly about two things: what impression individual sounds (of letters) left by one author and, even most importantly an extended description by another ancient author of how a speaker produces the sound of each letter (tongue position, mouth opening, movements, where the speaker feels the sound comes from in his body). This is very good evidence, which then we can compare with how we speak today (in modern Greek first and its surviving dialects). If you compare this with word forms in other (ancient & modern) languages you can get an idea.
So, to answer your question: this is an hypothesis based on strong evidence. We cannot get further than this, except of course if an ancient ... mp3 is found :-D
Fake! Its just Christopher Lee who is summoning a complicated magic-spell.
What an honorable comparison :-D
Χριστόφορος Λέος εστιν!
Αρμονικόν εστι
Χάριν σοι ἀποδίδωμι :-)
So, Modern Greek sounds much closer to Spanish than ancient Greek, and ancient Greek sounds much closer to Old Norse, or Finnish than to modern Greek 😅😮.
Yes, if this is your impression... what is so strange about this?
It’s more curiosity of the evolution of spelling and alphabet rather than change in phonetics. For example, when did B and Δ come to sound like “V” and “th”. How did H, Y, EI, and OI all come to sound as the letter I, whereas in antiquity they were all distinct sounds?
Why does this have North European / Germanic / Swedish sounds like Ü and Å?
these are sounds that existed in Ancient Greek and some other languages... Is it strange?
@@Podium-arts
For me yes. It sounds like a mix between a reconstructed Proto-Norse and Koine Greek. If we look at Anatolian language reconstructions from PIE (Hittite, Assyrian, Proto Armenian, etc.) the reconstructed languages still use similar sounds to modern languages in the Anatolian peninsula (Turkish, Kurdish, Turkic, Kabardian, Armenian).
I can understand using voiceless fricatives in this as they are still attested to the region (but more in Polish, Czech, etc. ), but the purely modern Scandinavian sounds here like Ü and Å sound strange and too Norse to me. This sounds very Icelandic. I mean it's possible, all languages were closer to PIE than now, so Greek was closer to Norse back then than it is now, but still. This seems too close to me. I could be wrong though.
Did you work this foreward from Proto Greek reconstructions to Mycenaean to Ancient Greek, or did you try to reconstruct back from Byzantine -> Koine -> Ancient Greek, e.g. ɣhere->Keire>Kaire ?
@@gold333 As a language enthusiast I am curious why the sound he made sounds Scandinavian to you. He was probably aiming for that which is written as a 'y' using IPA. It seems to be consensus this changed to 'i' during Koine period. Thank you for your response.
@@o.sunsfamily I work with international people and can usually pinpoint to within 300-500 km where someone comes from by the phonemes they use when they speak English or their own language. The phonemes in this audio (not the words) sounds generally Germanic to me, Icelandic in particular and not Aegean. Like I said, I can understand the Polish and Czech sounding "Sz," "Cz" sounds as it makes sense that phonemes in the area diversified apart in 2500 years but those Icelandic vowels suprised me.
Listen to the phonemes in this video and compare them to this one:
www.ruv.is/frett/folk-a-ad-fa-taekifaeri-til-ad-tala-islensku
or this one:
www.mbl.is/folk/frettir/2019/04/10/gudni_og_eliza_reid_tala_saman_a_ensku/?sign=5
@@gold333 I see now! Your interpretation is very accurate. In import and export it can be very vital to know the language history of partners. In the modern age, it is the sound associated with the North Europeans.
Before the modern age, you follow the theory of singular vowel emergence (I do not know it's appropriate title in English) that advocates for discovery of "complex" vowels along the way and modern spread out of mostly singular families?
I believe most modern linguists follow the simultaneous emergence theory as through phonetic shifts many changes seem to have been and be occurring again and again in natural patterns. In this case, the 'y' sound emerged in Ancient Greek (Attic variant as well as Ionic variant) through shift of u to the forward.
Of course, we will not know where changes came from - what would I give for to witness it happen back then.
Also, while further considering it, a very distinctive feature of Scandinavian that is heard is their rounding of front rounded vowels. As someone who works intensely with the IPA, I tend to forget the features it is missing. The differentiation of protruded and compressed rounding is one such and apparently it is important in Swedish. I did not know this and now I wonder if this has spread elsewhere.
Im sorry but this is a debauchery of Homer's Iliad and sub-par attempt to recite such work.
You've been there I suppose, so please enlighten us
It seems that you're using Attic rather than Old Ionic/Homeric pronunciation, correct?
Also, great job at using the digamma. Makes a word like Ἠελίοιο sound less awkward.
Yes, it's based on Attic, since the texts we have are first written down in Athens, the Homeric sound with Attic symbols...