6:56 this is actually Odysseus being really clever. By immobilizing himself and listening to the sirens’ dulcet tones, the crew can observe him and figure out when it’s safe to unplug their ears.
I love how Penelope's response to "your husband will be back before the end of the month" is "do you think I should get remarried". Honestly, I feel like she kinda knew that the beggar was Odysseus and wanted to see his reaction
Yeah, the only reason why she didn’t recognise him in that instance is that Athena put a charm on her. In the same scene Odysseus’ nanny (probably centenarian by this point) washes his feet and sees an old scar he got while fighting a boar and she lets out a scream of recognition… and Penelope DOESN’T NOTICE because Athena clouded her mind.
12:20 Fun Fact: according to my high school history teacher, the Greeks considered it disrespectful to kill a man with a bow, as a bow was seen primarily as a hunting tool that should only be used for killing animals (I’m not sure how the context of War would change that idea though) Odysseus then proceeded to murder a fuck ton of the suitors with the bow he just shot, killing all of them while simultaneously calling them all animals
Odysseus was a lion come back to his den. The suitors were described as fawns left by their mother in the lions lair. When he kills them, his servant remarks that seeing him striding the courtyard blood all over his clothes he looked like a lion just devoured his prey. The prophecies of the gods many times sent were eagles and hawks swooping down to kill fat geese or hens. He was a predator always.
@@mustafam956 Eh, always found that to be a little disingenuous. HELPLESS as fawns maybe, but considering the shit these douches were up to, I always felt 'fawns' was too gentle and inoffensive a descriptor for the suitors.
@@oceanberserker I’m paraphrasing the text. “ Weak as the doe that beds down her fawns in a mighty lion's den-her newborn sucklings- then trails off to the mountain spurs and grassy bends to graze her fill, but back the lion comes to his own lair and the master deals both fawns a ghastly bloody death, “. (17, 135-39)
@@fluffycat2728 actually no. Athena and Poseidon didn't really like each other since the naming of the city of Athens. Athena was so fond of Ody it's no surprise Poseidon didn't like him 😅
You forgot the bed story! So to explain my absolute favorite part of The Odyssey, considering it had been ten years and Odysseus didn't exactly look the same as before Penelope still had her doubts, because it was one of those "it's too good to be true" situations and people had actually tried to say they were Odysseus to take the throne before. She wanted to believe it was really her husband but she had to make sure so she hatched another plan. Now, their marriage bed was actually sacred to them, as Odysseus had carved it himself out of a tree that had roots in the foundation of the house itself. Don't ask me why they built their house around a tree, that's just how the story goes. Now, most people didn't know about this, only Penelope and her husband. So to test to see if it was him she decided to come up with a story. Using the secret of their bed, which only her and Odysseus knew, she told him "Oh, of course we can go to bed, but the room it's in is different now just so you know. And by that I mean I had it moved to a different room." Odysseus lost his shit, not just because he was angry but because he was like "how the HELL did you move the bed woman it was part of a TREE did you YANK IT OFF? Do you know how HARD I worked on that bed and you YANKED IT OFF?" and he goes on this whole rant of exactly how he made the bed, something only he would know. Then she gets all emotional because it really WAS her husband and she's just like "honey it's okay I didn't actually move the bed I just had to be sure" and then they lived happily ever after
you have no idea how irrationally happy i was to see this. i was like "turn my music up to 400%" to try to listen to 2 and a half seconds of music and try to hear what half the lyrics are over red. THANK YOU
10:45 "As Odysseus approaches his home, he finds Argos lying neglected on a pile of cow manure, infested with lice, old and very tired. This is a sharp contrast to the dog Odysseus left behind; Argos used to be known for his speed and strength and his superior tracking skills. Unlike everyone else, including Eumaeus, a lifelong friend, Argos recognizes Odysseus at once and he has just enough strength to drop his ears and wag his tail but cannot get up to greet his master. Unable to greet his beloved dog, as this would betray who he really was, Odysseus passes by (but not without shedding a tear) and enters his hall, and Argos dies. The simplicity of the relationship between Argos and Odysseus allows their reunion to be immediate and sincere" **sobs uncontrollably and begins drinking**
There are several interpretations, but it seems the most agreed one is "hated by everyone" (His grandad, Autolycus named him that way, and that's fiting with Autolycus' character).
You missed the part where Penelope wants to be sure he's really Odysseus and she's like: oh, guess I'll move our bed in the living room to sleep there and Odysseus like: no, damn it! I litterally built it into a olive tree, you can't move it! and Penolope is like: it's really you! and then they continue their relationship
It's also a neat inversion of the common way fidelity played into stories back then - instead of Penelope proving her virtue or something equally ridiculous, it's on Odysseus to prove that he's not a charlatan.
Good news, Odysseus staid with Argos until he died, so Odysseus wasn't just like "Hey buddy! Papa's gotta go murder some people!" Odysseus staid with Argos until the poor thing let out his last breath, then he cried, and then he was like "Alright, party time"
I heard a version where Odysseus noticed him but he couldn't greet his good boy because otherwise he'd give away his disguise. That makes it so much more tragic, him wanting to say hi, but not being able to.
Second Little fun fact I’ve put in the comments: Odysseus’s bow was considered a futuristic and generally sought after relic, like a laser gun from Men in Black today, because you had to touch it a certain way for it to work. Different versions have this differently but usually there is an imbedded button in the frame thing that lets it bend better. One could interpret this as the beginnings of the idea of the compound bow or even the crossbow, which are really cool and pretty advanced for the time. Yeah
What XD. Dude, I was taught Odysseus could string the bow cause he's like mad strong in comparison to the suitors, and his son comes close to stringing it, but is told by Odysseus not to so he can look cooler. A button would make more sense XD.
@@epauletshark3793 That was my understanding too. I'm not much of an archer, but thanks to the internet I've learned that trying to string a recurve bow the way you would a longbow is a very bad idea. Best case scenario it just doesn't work and you give up, worst case the 200lb draw weight snaps off your everything.
@@antitheist3206 Jup, seen the Odysseus movie with Armand Assante? There you can see the scene with the bow. The suitors all try it with brute strength, only Odysseus uses a proper technique and strings it. Great scene
I've read one version where Odysseus places the bow behind his back. Then used his back and upper body muscles to bend the bow to string. Simple when you know how. One of the suitors said "There was a trick to it!" And Odysseus replies "Of course there's a trick!" Which I thought was a very true to the crafty Odysseus's character.
Odysseus: "We embark on an epic Odyssey" Odysseus's crew: "What's that?" Odysseus: "It's a journey named after the only surviving traveler" The crew: "What."
I'm kinda weird and read the Odyssey before reading the Iliad, just because the Odyssey is more bearable tbh. But when reading the Iliad I always find it funny when Odysseus shows up, its like seeing your custom character in a videogame cutscene and they just seems out of place, as he's always referred to as 'Godlike Odysseus' or 'Odysseus, Zeus' equal in his mind's resource', its always funny to me how much he stands out compared to other people who are just 'Swift footed' or 'the famous spearman'. Get out of the way Hector of the shiny helmet, galaxy brain Odysseus is here to steal your chariots at night
@@matheus5230 I don't mean it as a put down of the Iliad, as it is a key piece of culture and history. But as a story it tends to get somewhat dry in places. Since the book is essentially just a back and fourth battle until Achilles gets involved. Meanwhile the Odyssey is, personally, a more interesting story to read. Maybe thats just personal bias and preference, since I basically read the Odyssey in about a week, and Iliad in 4 months. But either way my original comment was mostly meant as a joke
@@fraser1614 Thanks for the reply. Odyssey really focuses entirely on the journey of this man, Odisseus, and his woman waiting for his return and playfully tricking all her pretenders. That's the clear focus from start to finish: those two characters. Iliad is more cluttered and unfocused in that regard, maybe it's why it can be harder to follow.
10:42 Argos must have been some 22 years old. That's a long time to live for a dog. I may be remembering wrong, but the story seems to imply that the only thing keeping it alive at that point was his loyalty to Odysseus, not wanting to go until his master returned.
"Y'know, for someone who the gods supposedly hate, Odysseus sure does seem to get a lot of help from them." All the big player gods hate him, all the minor gods see him as an underdog being unfairly screwed over and wanna help him out to even the odds. Also I totally buy the recurve bow theory, the stringing technique is WAY different, so it'd make sense that the only Greek with brains knew how to use an early attempt at machine assisted leveraging.
I would consider Athena to be a major goddess and she fully supported Odysseus and his family. Hermes was helpful too. I guess the gods and goddesses were fairly divided in their views of Odysseus. Though I can't really blame Poseidon as was pretty angry for valid reasons. If I recall, Zeus was pretty neutral but would punish Odysseus if he and his crew did something that was disrespectable.
Only Poseidon really hated Odysseus. Athena and Hermès especially favored him as they helped him several times. Aphrodite, Hera, Hestia, Hades, Ares, Artemis, Apollo, Dionysus, Hephaestus, and Demeter did literally nothing to him over the journey that I know of. Zeus only stranded Odysseus’ entire crew and punished them for killing one of Helios’ sacred cows. Did I forget something
My English teacher named his little dog Argos after Odysseus’s dog He also wants another dog to name him Enkidu after the animalistic friend from the epic of Gilgamesh I may still his name ideas
My favorite thing about the Athena convincing Ithaca thing is that their complaints were about Odysseus breaking hospitality by killing his guests. Despite those “guests” having long since gone from guests to home invaders.
The most important theme of Odyssey is hospitality. Those who practice xenia well are rewarded in the story and those who are horrible hosts or ungreatful guests suffer dearly.
The Phaeacians get their boat turned to stone for helping out Odysseus, cuz the interests of a god (symbolizing power structure itself, I feel like) cannot be prioritized over human actions...Poseiden would've gotten mega butthurt if Zeus didn't let him punish the Phaeacians, cuz it would've made him look bad (and the Phaeacians even swear off hospitality afterwards)
Apart from the part (omitted in this summary) where Odysseus slaughters all his servants for the awful crime of being hospitable to his wife's suitors.
Most people suck the myths dry and get them all wrong. This is the most accurate and reliable channel or person who gets the myths correct. Her and Rick Riordan are very accurate. Rick makes some mistakes though but I still recommend his books to everybody. Especially his Percy Jackson books, the first ones kinda boring but just give it a chance.
10:36 “You’re back.” “You’re really back. I was beginning to think you were *never* gonna make it. “...I’m glad you’re back.” “Let me just” “rest” “a litte” “and then” “ “ ___________ Goodbye old friend... I’m glad I got to see you last time.
You didn't mention Penelope's cunning plan to keep the suitors at bay while Odysseus was gone (though given how dense this all is, I don't blame you). She claimed she had to weave a death shroud for her father (or possibly Odysseus, it's been a while) before she could consider courting anyone, so she would weave and weave all day, then at night after they went to sleep, she would unravel what she'd woven, so she always was working on this project for ages and ages. And apparently they were all suuuuuper drunk, since they bought it until someone spotted her unraveling her work, but by that point Odysseus was hatching his plan, so it all worked out okay!
@@ecthelionalfa Personally, I'd say they deserved to die for plotting to murder the son of the extremely rich "widow" that they were courting. You ended up in the right place, however, so why quibble over the path? lol
@@stanklepoot "You ended up in the right place, however, so why quibble over the path?" A message that Odysseus would appreciate, I feel... Also anyone who's had to delay their path in life which is why *I'm* having feels right now.
I love the part with the dog because it's adorable (initially) and it shows that even thousands of years ago people were affected by the death of dogs enough that it was included in this book.
you should check out a video titled "How They Did It: Pet Dogs in Ancient Rome." The last bit of the video showcases several dog graves with epithets inscribed on them, and they are absolute heart-wrenching, tear-jerkers.
One could argue that it shows how loyal dogs can be. The dog must have been at least a year or two old when Odysseus left. The Troyan war went on for 9 years. Odysseus way back took 10 years. That dog was at least 20 years old when Odysseus returned.
For a ten year trip, Odysseus was sailing for a maximum of 2 years: 1 year with Circe, and 7 years with Calypso, not counting the numerous other stops.
He was with Circe and Calypso for that amount of time - he also stays an entire month with the wind god Aelous like dude, do you NOT wanna get home??!! You have a wife and son waiting for you 🙄 And then he gets his entire crew killed..
It's kind of like the Israelites taking 40 years to get from the Red Sea to Jerusalem. It's like 500km. Sure, you're hoofing it with an enormous population including children and old folks, but you're telling me they couldn't do even a mile a day and be there within a year? It's not like they're having to stop for food--they're being followed around by a tornado that's literally chucking snacks at them.
One thing to remember is that these were the days of sailing ships, and pretty early sailing ships too. You had to wait for favorable winds before you could set sail. Getting holed up somewhere for a month because the weather isn’t in your favor isn’t an uncommon occurrence,
I made this joke to my brother when the Circe Saga for Epic: The Musical came out and she tells them she'll send them to the Underworld - "Circe, when asked for help, told Odysseus to literally 'Go to Hell'.
No shit, Odysseus left the dog and didn't come back until like 20 years later. So the dog was like 150 years old in dog years, I'm not surprised he fuckin died.
Andrew Barnes Yea in Percy Jackson movies Edit: So first of all I seen that mostly everyone is upset with me by saying The Percy Jackson movie of the lotus eaters but I never said it was better than the books I only said the movies because I’m pretty sure in the books they don’t eat the lotus it was only in the first movie and the book is way better have a goody day ❤️and please don’t be mad at me😔😂😂
you forgot Elpenor, who had the best stupid death in the entire book. Survives the Trojan war, survives the cyclopes, the canibals and swinification. Gets drunk, falls asleep on the roof, falls off in his sleep and breaks his neck.
For those who wanted to know, I believe Ajax is mad at Odysseus because after Achilles' death there was an argument over who would get his stuff. The two main contenders were Odysseus and Ajax, and of course, Odysseus won. Basically, this resulted in ultimate saltiness and Ajax just falling on his own spear
Ajax was mostly pissed because Odysseus was a lot less strong than he was, but had cajoled a story that might have contained half-truths as well. Bottom like, while Ajax assumed most worthy for Achilles' weapons = best fighter, Odysseus crafted a narrative that showed that Odysseus was most worthy, even if Ajax was the stronger dude. Ajax wasn't even most angry at Odysseus: the real guys who dun goofed in his opinion were the judges, as they, according to Ajax, should have seen through the smart talk and have recognized that he was the strongest. They didn't, so they had to die, and that's when the gods made him hack a bunch of sheep up because in the darkness and blind rage he mistook them for the Greek leaders. He basically killed himself out of embarrasment afterwards.
well we studied about scylla, I think she was a nymph and Circe cursed her cuz she was jealous of her, (Circe is jealous cuz a guy liked Scylla so he asked Circe for it not knowing Circe liked the guy and so instead of love potion she made a curse potion
4:13 I remember a joke I found on tumblr a while back about Odysseus and Cassandra. It went something like Odysseus: Hey, I heard you could hear the future or something, what's that about? Cassandra: I'm cursed to see the future but nobody believes me. Odysseus: Tell me. Cassandra: I just said, if I prophesize- Odysseus: Nonono... I'm nobody. And then Cassandra helps him get home in not ten years and they both live happily ever after. I thought it was really funny and cute. The actual thing was written better though.
@calikikitaru3519 i, too, would like for a link of this AO3. But it must be in a form of a riddle! For you see, the scaly monster named Algorithm hates nasty links and gobbles them up-
10:40 Why did the dog have to die?! Congratulations! You've just beholden an example of a literal ancient trope of the beloved pet death. It galvanizes the hero, makes the villians irrideemable, and can be see in anime (JoJos bizzare adventure), movies (John Wick), and countless books.
Also serves as a painful reminder of the passage of time in my opinion (possibly because I think about it a lot). It's been 20 years. Good boy. Old boy. Odysseus doesn't get those years back, but he does get to earn his future *now.*
I read a comic version in high school where the dog's spirit is carried away by Athena after he dies. Somehow made it both worse AND better. Maybe Odysseus reunited with the little guy in Elysium.
I can kinda answer the lotus thing. Widely spread across the area is the "blue lotus" which is really a water lily. From Egypt originally I think. Anyway. It has a pleasant lightweight opium type effect that can chill you out. It's popularly made into a tea.
Man, that Argos part just rips your heart out if you’ve ever had a dog. :( Also I love how Penelope also tests Odysseus by pranking him about their bed.
Yeah, I was sorry Red skipped that bit! This vid kinda makes Penelope look rather passive, whereas she was really doing her best to stall the invading suitors & minimize the dangers they posed to her son and other dependents? Gotta say though, the way her maidservants were treated by Homer always pissed me off - in reality they'd probably have been r*pe victims of assault by the suitors rather than their willing partners, but he seems to consider them worthy of death because of that 😕 The only one who really seemed to merit revenge was the one who betrayed Penelope's ruse...?
I remember in high school we read the odyssey, and at the beginning we read Odysseus saying he was stuck in Calypso’s “smooth caves” and we were all laughing hysterically.
Seriously! I think people really underestimate the role she had in this. She was a real mentor and took care of his son while he was gone, gave counsel to his wife, regulated the country, and directly helped Odysseus on multiple occasions. I think she even partook in the slaughter of the suitors if I remember correctly
@@hah-no. I think it's because in all but blood Odysseus is basically Athena's son, as the goddess of knowledge and warfare, Odysseus is her perfect mortal.
Wait a minute: if Odysseus was believed to be dead, then why didn’t his son take the throne immediately after he came of age? The boy is literally about 20 years old when his father finally returned Also: Athena glares at Zeus and the rest of the gods, “you better not use the ‘no murdering guests’ rule against him or I’ll show you why I’m better than Aries.”
Well to answer your question: the short answer is that the suitors were also the nobles of the island. And they had a lot of political power, while Telemachus even tho was the heir, had no political support. Also about the joke, don't worry. they didn't act as guests, so they don't get to be treated as guests. :)
“Pissed at Odysseus for reasons too complicated for this video” The Greek commanders decided Odysseus was cooler than Ajax and thus should be given Achilles’ sweet-ass armor. Ajax killed himself in a fit of jealousy and shame. Also he killed some cows.
My mythology professor says she reads this book whenever she goes to the airport because as bad the delays get Odysseus still had it worse. I ended up following her advice when I had to deal with a 6 hour layover in Germany.
“Achilles and Patroclus, now hetero-death partners,” “I’m a mage! I have, like two hit points!” “And his old dog recognizes him right away, and then dies😭”
Fan fact: Homer takes the time to describe the the kind of cheese Polyphemus was making in his cave: “We soon reached his cave, but [Polyphemos] was out shepherding, so we went inside and took stock of all that we could see. His cheese-racks were loaded with cheeses, and he had more lambs and kids than his pens could hold. They were kept in separate flocks; first there were the hoggets, then the oldest of the younger lambs and lastly the very young ones all kept apart from one another; as for his dairy, all the vessels, bowls, and milk pails into which he milked, were swimming with whey.” This of course is the recipe for Feta Cheese which is enshrined in Greek law to this day. And it comes FROM THE FREAKING ODYSSEY!
If I remember right from when I re-read this a few years ago, Odysseus was very emotional upon seeing his dog still alive and loyal. But since he couldn't give himself away with any outbursts of emotion, the most he could do was choke back some tears and walk into his home without properly saying hello or goodbye. What's worse, I remember the book took time to explain that Odysseus had raised the dog from infancy into one of the best hunting hounds in Greece, but he had become neglected; most likely due to the suitors.
He really kinda was though. A badass warrior that was the only one to suggest a night time stealth mission, and actually possessed battlefield wisdom and strategy
You know what? Since you made Odysseus look like Solid Snake you should have had him say "Kept ya waiting, huh?" when he revealed himself at the palace.
Anyone else coming here in 2024 to learn the overarching plotline of Epic: The Odyssey Saga musical? Also: I love how every description of Scylla essentially boils down to "An ugly piece of work" but every animatic I've seen of her depicts her as a Monster pin-up girl with ugly bits attatched.
Using her original nymph body as a sort of human half for her is much more palatable than what she's actually described to look like in the myth. There are images that are closer. Pretty sure Jorge showed one that was accurate in a tiktok or something.
I don't think you give yourself enough credit, the comedic contextualization/summaries of the happenings you throw in here and there get a good chuckle out of me. Most people who know me think I'm humor impaired, getting multiple genuine chuckles if not outright laughs out of me isn't an unremarkable feat.
So they're making a musical of this, called Epic. There's a few songs out already; the cyclops saga ones are fantastic. Really hope it makes it to broadway!
Yess!! A bit I'm confused Abt is in EPIC Zues gives Odysseus a quest for like a kiddo that he needs to kill but it isn't mentioned here imma have to do more research I suppose
EPIC does take several liberties with what happens during the Odyssey (ex. Polites dying to Polyphemus), but I’m enjoying it so much- I swear every song is a banger
My English teacher showed this video to our class after we were done reading to book; and no, he has absolutely no problem with cursing. He's like the typical nice-guy teacher everybody likes, but he tolerates cursing. Kinda ironic really. Also, my class flipped their shit when Argos died. I think a few girls cried, and the nerd population of the class had serious war flashbacks from Futurama. It was intense man.
"This guy gets put through more crap than a 20 pound bag of industrial strength Huggies sized for incontinent bulls." Poetry, Miss Red, sheer poetry. XD
You forgot Penelope hard trolling Odysseus... just to make sure that he was her husband. Edit: If people are confused as to how? Well, basically Penelope went up to Odysseus after he cleaned up and was like "Awesome, you're home. I"m afraid you're going to have to sleep on the couch though b/c I moved our bed." Odysseus: "Um... Honey, that's not possible." Penelope: *slyly* Whaat? Odysseus: I carved our bed out of a mega-humongous tree branch that stuck itself into our window. It's literally a living bed and can't be moved. (I have no idea how he managed to do this) Penelope: *phew, tackles Odysseus* "YESSS YOU'RE MY HUBBY!" *kissy kissy*
This along with Penelope’s shroud trick (where she says I’ll decide which suitor to marry when I finish sewing this shroud then slyly unpicks it every night until Odysseus returns) is actually what depicts her as the perfect wife for Odysseus and thus along with the idea of nostos is why he doesn’t say with nausicaa the white armed virginal princess who is the personification of the perfect wife and coincidentally wants to marry him
She was wary, it could have been a clever imposer. Sad that she isnt showing Penelope holding them off with knotting and unknotting later at night the same stupid piece of textil for griefing odesseus death. for ten or twenty years.
Well thats to be expected. For example: Characters die often in futurama but that one episode about Fry's dog waiting for him is the saddest in the series.
12:02 You missed one of my favorite parts of the bow contest-where teenage Telemachus made several attempts to string his father’s giant warbow, and didn’t stop trying until Odysseus like, put his hand on his son’s shoulder
This life is AMAZING when you greet it with open arms! Whatever we face we'll be fine if we're leading from the heart! *Proceeds to snatch Odysseus's sword and yeet it off a bridge*
Mercy has a price its the final crack we are bound to break the ice now ,, You revealed you're name and let him live unlike you I've got no mercy to give cause RUTHLESSNESS IS MERCY UPON OURSELVES
"Wait, wait, I'm a mage, I have like two hit points!" "Then I guess you better turn them back before I have to whittle that number down to zero." Badass. I'm stealing that
@@falxblade1352 Clerics/druids also have to contend with punitive, petulant, arbitrary, whimsical DMs denying spell choices, forcing spell choices, or otherwise screwing them over. A mage commands his own magic, no dependency on external permissions.
I keep coming back to this video after every binge listen of Epic to compare. Homer’s Ody is definitely just a poor man dragged around by the gods while Epic’s Ody keep making decisions that leads to multiple tragedies, slowly numbing him and reshaping him into a monstrous man that makes his fun father-son murder bonding time feel… tragic. In Epic, he keeps insisting to his adult son and his aged wife that he’s the same as before. 😢
I have rewatched pretty much all of Red's videos, and the scene with the dog's thoughts is the only one of all of her artistic representations that consistently makes me tear up
For anyone interested, there's a really good paper out there called 'Odyssey and Argonautica' by Martin West (2005). He uses clues from the Odyssey to try to figure out what the original dark age version of Jason and the Argonauts might have been like (because it never got written down and we only have much later fanficcy versions to go by). In the process, he comes up with some persuasive arguments about the crazy unmappable geography of the Odyssey. Well, persuasive to me, anyway. Long story short, the reason nobody can map Odysseus's travels based on landmarks in the story is because (according to West) it probably went through three major revisions by the dark age bards before it was written down--or was edited together from three different versions: In the hypothetical *OG Odyssey*, Odysseus gets blown off course to the EASTERN Mediterranean, to exotic but known countries like Egypt. He has the same adventures that Menelaus now has, including getting marooned on the island of Pharos and jumping on the shapeshifting Proteus guy. Then he goes home. This version would have been kinda sorta historically accurate, in the same way that the Iliad is kinda sorta historically accurate about some details like where ships came from. Maybe it even recorded real events that happened to some Greeks after the war. But it would also frankly have been kinda boring. And the bards, and/or the audience, were like, "Wait, what was Menelaus doing this whole time? And also, this story could really do with some monsters to appeal to the dark age mass market. You know, like the Sirens from Jason and the Argonauts." So the story was (probably) revised to *Odyssey 2.0*, in which Menelaus got all the adventures Odysseus originally had. Meanwhile Odysseus himself got blown off course into the WESTERN Mediterranean, where he could have crazy adventures with the Cyclops in some imaginary place. In this version, after his stupid crew open the bag of wind, it causes a terrible storm that destroys the ship/fleet and kills everyone but Odysseus. He washes up on an island all alone ... because the bards are copy-pasting the end of the previous version to make sure it still connects to the homecoming to Ithaca. Only now that he's in the western Mediterranean, the island can't be Pharos. So they invent Calypso's island instead. OK, well, the geography is not terribly historically accurate anymore and we're well into the realm of random ogre folktale stuff to keep the cheap seats happy, but the Cyclops part is a fantastic bit of storytelling and really showcases Odysseus's character, so on the whole it's an improvement. But ... the bards, and/or the audience, may by this point have been a little drunk on their own success. "Hey, that Cyclops bit went down a treat! You know what this story needs? More cool monsters! Like in Jason and the Argonauts! Like the Sirens!" So then along comes *Odyssey 3.0*, in which a bunch of random adventures inspired by Jason and the Argonauts are shoved into the middle of Odysseus's wanderings. Sirens, Circe, cannibal giants, seeing/visiting Hades, sun-god cattle, etc. To make this work, opening the bag of wind doesn't cause the final storm anymore--it just blows them back to Aeolus and they have to keep on sailing. The storm/lightning gets saved up till after the new adventures, and is assigned to a pissed-off god. And that's the version written down by Homer. Which became hella popular. Job well done. Except ... Jason and the Argonauts pretty clearly takes place in the Black Sea. Which is NORTH-EAST of the Mediterranean. By plonking Argonauts-derived stuff like the Sirens down in the middle of the Odyssey--which otherwise takes place in the WEST--the geography, which was already wobbly thanks to the Cyclops addition, now gets completely frazzled. Scholars for millennia to come will try to map the journey according to known landmarks, get utterly confused, smack their foreheads in exasperation and declare that the whole thing is some kind of psychological imaginative Jungian journey or whatever. And to make matters worse--or better, depending on your point of view--some scholars are like, "OK, he starts in the west and comes home from the west, so clearly EVERYTHING must happen out near Italy and Sicily! Including Circe and the Sirens and so on. Otherwise Odysseus would need a portal gun or something. And we don't even have a concept of that." So when Apollonius writes his big-budget blockbuster remake of Jason and the Argonauts a few centuries later, he takes the 'evidence' from the Odyssey. He puts the Sirens and Circe in the western sea. And he forces the Argonauts to take that route home, instead of the eastern route they took in older sources (before the Greeks learned that the Black Sea was enclosed). So not just one, but TWO famous dark age stories--that may have preserved some genuine historical and geographical details--got shipwrecked on the rocks of a) popular entertainment and b) obsessive fan theorycrafting. I guess the Sirens won after all. (also btw there's totally some other stuff in the Odyssey ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh but I won't go into that)
@@Dawn_the_dragon project moon, makes lotsa cool and extremely hard games their newest game, limbus company (lcb for short, the b is to not confuse it with their first game lc) has characters based on classic litterature, including outis who is based on odysseus. in this channel's classics summarized: don quixote video you can find a lot of pm fans spamming memes about the lcb character don quixote, a fan favorite
Every time I rewatch this I hear "huh. Why would I need this when I have a perfectly servicable raft?" I brace myself for the loudest raft breaking noise ever.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
6:56 this is actually Odysseus being really clever. By immobilizing himself and listening to the sirens’ dulcet tones, the crew can observe him and figure out when it’s safe to unplug their ears.
And he can hear what he wants most, a way home.
it's not even the first instance. like for example with polythemus when he calls himself nobody
@@ked49 That's actually only in the musical
@@jonathanhamilton2504 He *does* call himself nobody in the original story tho?? She even says so in this video
@@pondbrothers806 …Yeah. He did. -Nobody- No one is denying that.
I love how Penelope's response to "your husband will be back before the end of the month" is "do you think I should get remarried". Honestly, I feel like she kinda knew that the beggar was Odysseus and wanted to see his reaction
I always got that vibe that she was just f*ing with him. Never once thought she was serious
Honestly, same because he married this smart woman for a reason among many reasons
@@yourlittleinsomniac5369good for her
Yeah, the only reason why she didn’t recognise him in that instance is that Athena put a charm on her. In the same scene Odysseus’ nanny (probably centenarian by this point) washes his feet and sees an old scar he got while fighting a boar and she lets out a scream of recognition… and Penelope DOESN’T NOTICE because Athena clouded her mind.
She actually probably did being *extremely* cunning and chosen over Helen by Odysseus. The only thing that kept her from knowing was probably Athena
12:20 Fun Fact: according to my high school history teacher, the Greeks considered it disrespectful to kill a man with a bow, as a bow was seen primarily as a hunting tool that should only be used for killing animals (I’m not sure how the context of War would change that idea though) Odysseus then proceeded to murder a fuck ton of the suitors with the bow he just shot, killing all of them while simultaneously calling them all animals
Odysseus while murdering the suitors: Don’t run! Don’t run! Pigs! All of you! Pigs!
Odysseus was a lion come back to his den. The suitors were described as fawns left by their mother in the lions lair. When he kills them, his servant remarks that seeing him striding the courtyard blood all over his clothes he looked like a lion just devoured his prey.
The prophecies of the gods many times sent were eagles and hawks swooping down to kill fat geese or hens. He was a predator always.
@@mustafam956 Eh, always found that to be a little disingenuous. HELPLESS as fawns maybe, but considering the shit these douches were up to, I always felt 'fawns' was too gentle and inoffensive a descriptor for the suitors.
@@oceanberserker I’m paraphrasing the text.
“ Weak as the doe that beds down her fawns in a mighty lion's den-her newborn sucklings- then trails off to the mountain spurs and grassy bends to graze her fill, but back the lion comes to his own lair and the master deals both fawns a ghastly bloody death, “.
(17, 135-39)
@@mustafam956 Now THAT sounds more like it!
Odysseus after passing the Cyclops, Circe, scylla and Caribdis:
"How did we miss all of this on the way to Troy?"
Iphigenia???
Started to question that after a while lol
I always assumed since Poseidon is the god of the sea and he hates Odysseus, the sea just pushed Odysseus to the worst places it could
@@jrgrimm6091fair. But he only had a real reason to hate him after the cyclops
@@fluffycat2728 actually no. Athena and Poseidon didn't really like each other since the naming of the city of Athens. Athena was so fond of Ody it's no surprise Poseidon didn't like him 😅
You forgot the bed story!
So to explain my absolute favorite part of The Odyssey, considering it had been ten years and Odysseus didn't exactly look the same as before Penelope still had her doubts, because it was one of those "it's too good to be true" situations and people had actually tried to say they were Odysseus to take the throne before. She wanted to believe it was really her husband but she had to make sure so she hatched another plan. Now, their marriage bed was actually sacred to them, as Odysseus had carved it himself out of a tree that had roots in the foundation of the house itself. Don't ask me why they built their house around a tree, that's just how the story goes. Now, most people didn't know about this, only Penelope and her husband.
So to test to see if it was him she decided to come up with a story. Using the secret of their bed, which only her and Odysseus knew, she told him "Oh, of course we can go to bed, but the room it's in is different now just so you know. And by that I mean I had it moved to a different room." Odysseus lost his shit, not just because he was angry but because he was like "how the HELL did you move the bed woman it was part of a TREE did you YANK IT OFF? Do you know how HARD I worked on that bed and you YANKED IT OFF?" and he goes on this whole rant of exactly how he made the bed, something only he would know. Then she gets all emotional because it really WAS her husband and she's just like "honey it's okay I didn't actually move the bed I just had to be sure" and then they lived happily ever after
you literally just saved my essay ily
Funny my version of the Odyssey, Odysseus also loses his shit and calls Penelope "Woman!" like Kratos with "boi!"
That's cute.
Honestly the funniest part of the Odyssey
Don't give me Diabetes
10:43 Argos: Was I a Good Boi?
Thanatos: No...I’m told you were the best
@Squidward Cerberus is owned by Hades not Thanatos
This has to be mythologically canon
Cerberus: You's a good boi.... I isz touched
Up until that point, I was like, this book drags on in parts but is awesome! And then that part came and my mood shifted to "Owwwwwww. My feelings..."
@Lara SCHROEDER i agree to that p,p
Whenever someone important or an entire group of people die in horrendous ways: *nothing*
Whenever a random animal dies (even when peacefully): 10:45
The John Wick Principle
@@clockworkkirlia7475 bahahahahahahahahaha 😂
But the dog wasn’t random. It had to sit and wait for 17 years.
Hades: Once again, the only one of my brothers that didn’t make this situation harder. Why. Am. I. Always. The. Bad. Guy?
Hollywood: 🤷♂️
Nor the guy who doens't. Cheat on his wife
Because Hollywood is deaf.
Yeah Hades is the only decent one out of his brothers. Apparently he did cheat on Persephone with Minthe though, so his record isn’t totally clean
@@goatplaysguitar compare that to any of the actions of the Greek pantheon, it seems tame
"Oh yeah? Where can I find him?"
"He's dead."
Odysseus : Thanks for the directions
If he's dead, the only course of action is to *SAIL DOWN TO HADES!*
@@planetarycube5988 also some how hades is easier to find then his own home.
"About twelve feet behind you and six feet straight down."
Typical
My father is a sailor and loves this epic. I asked him what the lesson was, he said: *Shit Happens*
Bryce McKenzie Forest Gump tends to agree
At least the shit comes with banging and drugs : Circe & Lotus
You have an amazing father. That is a real lesson, shit happens!
One of the big lessons.
And usually at the worst possible time.
The sirens jamming out to ‘Turn the Beat Around’ made me irrationally happy
Odysseus: *Is currently suffering from disco fever*
you have no idea how irrationally happy i was to see this. i was like "turn my music up to 400%" to try to listen to 2 and a half seconds of music and try to hear what half the lyrics are over red. THANK YOU
That killed me off 🤣🤣😂
I actually laughed aloud
yeah kinda sad I can't vibe to 500 miles
YOU MADE A FULL SPEED AHEAD JOKE 9 YEARS PRIOR, I call that commitment
Bro i still dont get how XD
there is a 90s movie where Odysseus says "ROW FOR YOUR LIVES!"
Man Apollo with his dodgeball again :/ (please tell me you get that)
@@noureldinahmed4953DROWN IN YOUR SORROW AND FEAAAAARSSSSSS
What was the joke?
@@Princesstrixiesparklels4life the musical of the Odyssey makes the comment of full speed ahead constantly
10:45 "As Odysseus approaches his home, he finds Argos lying neglected on a pile of cow manure, infested with lice, old and very tired. This is a sharp contrast to the dog Odysseus left behind; Argos used to be known for his speed and strength and his superior tracking skills. Unlike everyone else, including Eumaeus, a lifelong friend, Argos recognizes Odysseus at once and he has just enough strength to drop his ears and wag his tail but cannot get up to greet his master. Unable to greet his beloved dog, as this would betray who he really was, Odysseus passes by (but not without shedding a tear) and enters his hall, and Argos dies. The simplicity of the relationship between Argos and Odysseus allows their reunion to be immediate and sincere"
**sobs uncontrollably and begins drinking**
that dog is pretty sad
Brass 'n Barrels Firearms Channel cool
Laura Sad
And just like that, I feel empty inside... ; _ ;
Crush my heart why don't you, holy shit man
Fun fact: Odysseus means "man in constant sorrow."
"through all my days"
Fitting
@@jasonmartin4775 Yep, that's why chose that song.
There are several interpretations, but it seems the most agreed one is "hated by everyone" (His grandad, Autolycus named him that way, and that's fiting with Autolycus' character).
@@neutronalchemist3241 Fitting how?
You missed the part where Penelope wants to be sure he's really Odysseus and she's like: oh, guess I'll move our bed in the living room to sleep there
and Odysseus like: no, damn it! I litterally built it into a olive tree, you can't move it!
and Penolope is like: it's really you!
and then they continue their relationship
What a badass, he not only built a bed for him and his wife, but he built it ON the tree so it couldn't be moved
@@jessya775 yes, agreed. I think he built the bed there because it was a tree from his childhood or something similar, but not sure
It's also a neat inversion of the common way fidelity played into stories back then - instead of Penelope proving her virtue or something equally ridiculous, it's on Odysseus to prove that he's not a charlatan.
@@rafaelmarkos4489 true, I never thought of it that way
@@jessya775 Actually, he carved the bed out of the tree.
7:34 Somewhere, you can hear the screams of a thousand Epic the Musical fans.
FULL SPEED AHEAD
FULL SPEED AHEEEEEEEAAAAAAD
FULL SPEED AHEAAAAAAAAAD
FULL SPEED AHEAD
We’re up! We’re off! And away we go!
Good news, Odysseus staid with Argos until he died, so Odysseus wasn't just like "Hey buddy! Papa's gotta go murder some people!"
Odysseus staid with Argos until the poor thing let out his last breath, then he cried, and then he was like "Alright, party time"
Is like Argos deserved :') that is so heartbreaking
I heard a version where Odysseus noticed him but he couldn't greet his good boy because otherwise he'd give away his disguise. That makes it so much more tragic, him wanting to say hi, but not being able to.
@@ToonedMinecraft imagine if he comes back to see Argos and finds him dead.... the pain
@@ToonedMinecraft That's the version I know too. :(
@@ToonedMinecraft Surely everyone says 'hello' to a really old dog that comes up to them, regardless of prior backstory with that dog.
Second Little fun fact I’ve put in the comments:
Odysseus’s bow was considered a futuristic and generally sought after relic, like a laser gun from Men in Black today, because you had to touch it a certain way for it to work. Different versions have this differently but usually there is an imbedded button in the frame thing that lets it bend better. One could interpret this as the beginnings of the idea of the compound bow or even the crossbow, which are really cool and pretty advanced for the time.
Yeah
What XD. Dude, I was taught Odysseus could string the bow cause he's like mad strong in comparison to the suitors, and his son comes close to stringing it, but is told by Odysseus not to so he can look cooler. A button would make more sense XD.
Another theory is it was a recurve bow, and nobody but Odysseus knew the proper technique.
@@epauletshark3793
That was my understanding too.
I'm not much of an archer, but thanks to the internet I've learned that trying to string a recurve bow the way you would a longbow is a very bad idea.
Best case scenario it just doesn't work and you give up, worst case the 200lb draw weight snaps off your everything.
@@antitheist3206 Jup, seen the Odysseus movie with Armand Assante? There you can see the scene with the bow. The suitors all try it with brute strength, only Odysseus uses a proper technique and strings it. Great scene
I've read one version where Odysseus places the bow behind his back. Then used his back and upper body muscles to bend the bow to string. Simple when you know how. One of the suitors said "There was a trick to it!" And Odysseus replies "Of course there's a trick!" Which I thought was a very true to the crafty Odysseus's character.
Odysseus: "We embark on an epic Odyssey"
Odysseus's crew: "What's that?"
Odysseus: "It's a journey named after the only surviving traveler"
The crew: "What."
Odysseus crew literally does everything in their power to try and get themselves killed...
Most of the odysseys problems were because a lot of odyssey’s crew ate the lotus flower 😔
I think I've read somewhere that Odysseus had at least 10 crew members yelling out "LEROY JEEENNKIINNNS!!!"
I mean they kinda are rushing to see who gets to get killed first it ain't Odysseus' fault, mostly
his crew kind of is dumb though
My brain the whole time:
"He is a warrior of the MIIIINNDDD"
"Thunder bring her, through the wringer"
"Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves"
amen brother
amen
Yes, preach it preach IT
Same only mine is
"Deep Down You hide your reason for shame"
Yessss 🤣
“This life is amazing when you greet it with open arms”
“GET IN THE WATER”
“We do what it takes to survive”
😭😭
@@vlogwithkay4889 get in the water isnt even a song thats released yet officially, we only have a clip of it
I'm kinda weird and read the Odyssey before reading the Iliad, just because the Odyssey is more bearable tbh. But when reading the Iliad I always find it funny when Odysseus shows up, its like seeing your custom character in a videogame cutscene and they just seems out of place, as he's always referred to as 'Godlike Odysseus' or 'Odysseus, Zeus' equal in his mind's resource', its always funny to me how much he stands out compared to other people who are just 'Swift footed' or 'the famous spearman'. Get out of the way Hector of the shiny helmet, galaxy brain Odysseus is here to steal your chariots at night
Theres that one Easter egg as well, when helen describes odysseus to priam as a fine ram among the sheep 💀💀 my class was so excited reading that bit
What actually do you mean with Odyssey is more bearable? For what reason?
@@matheus5230 I don't mean it as a put down of the Iliad, as it is a key piece of culture and history. But as a story it tends to get somewhat dry in places. Since the book is essentially just a back and fourth battle until Achilles gets involved.
Meanwhile the Odyssey is, personally, a more interesting story to read. Maybe thats just personal bias and preference, since I basically read the Odyssey in about a week, and Iliad in 4 months. But either way my original comment was mostly meant as a joke
@@fraser1614 Thanks for the reply. Odyssey really focuses entirely on the journey of this man, Odisseus, and his woman waiting for his return and playfully tricking all her pretenders. That's the clear focus from start to finish: those two characters.
Iliad is more cluttered and unfocused in that regard, maybe it's why it can be harder to follow.
10:42 Argos must have been some 22 years old. That's a long time to live for a dog. I may be remembering wrong, but the story seems to imply that the only thing keeping it alive at that point was his loyalty to Odysseus, not wanting to go until his master returned.
martijn van weele that was heavily implied in the book
That’s so god damn sad
Evidence that Bronze Age Greece understood the power of the very good boy.
Well fuck that's fantastically sad :/
insert Connie Francis's I Will Wait For You,
My class had a shit fit when Odysseus' dog died.
To be honest when I watched the movie I didn't even know the dog died
Child Saaaaaame
Poor doggy, at least he got to see his master one last time.
i actually cried
For one last time......😭😭😭😭
So is anyone else super excited about the Odyssey musical that's releasing concept albums?
Really? That's so cool!
Yes!! But I want to see this production on a stage. I know it’s a process. But I can hardly wait!
YEAAAAA
@@Vanni.And.Skatee it’s called EPIC: The Musical, and it’s very good so far
I've been OBSESSED with Epic!
The dog died because he was at least 20 years old. Seems to me like, "Oh boy, Master's back! Alright, I've said hello, that's all I wanted. Bleh."
Still godsdammed tragic.
Aaaaaaw
Thing is Odysseus wanted to embrace him but if he did his cover would be blown cause no one else cared for the dog
Rip dog. All the F.
He couldn't go until he knew his master was home.
"Y'know, for someone who the gods supposedly hate, Odysseus sure does seem to get a lot of help from them." All the big player gods hate him, all the minor gods see him as an underdog being unfairly screwed over and wanna help him out to even the odds. Also I totally buy the recurve bow theory, the stringing technique is WAY different, so it'd make sense that the only Greek with brains knew how to use an early attempt at machine assisted leveraging.
I lost track of what Odysseus did specifically to upset the gods to begin with. Before the cyclops thing
I would consider Athena to be a major goddess and she fully supported Odysseus and his family. Hermes was helpful too. I guess the gods and goddesses were fairly divided in their views of Odysseus. Though I can't really blame Poseidon as was pretty angry for valid reasons. If I recall, Zeus was pretty neutral but would punish Odysseus if he and his crew did something that was disrespectable.
Only Poseidon really hated Odysseus. Athena and Hermès especially favored him as they helped him several times. Aphrodite, Hera, Hestia, Hades, Ares, Artemis, Apollo, Dionysus, Hephaestus, and Demeter did literally nothing to him over the journey that I know of. Zeus only stranded Odysseus’ entire crew and punished them for killing one of Helios’ sacred cows. Did I forget something
@@Graycataif I remember right it was because of the “unsportsmanlike behavior” that Odysseus displayed while retreating after the Greeks sacked Troy
Also that bow belonged to Apollo like 2 owners back
"Scylla is one ugly piece of work"
*proceeds to draw her as a hot monstergirl*
*Shadbase approves*
DatalysJR - *what is that. I think I know but I’m afraid to say*
@@aredjayc2858 oh god...
Top15z *oh fuck*
Well, this is how smite decided to make her: www.itl.cat/pics/b/4/42377_smite-scylla-wallpaper.jpg
You could say that this story was quite EPIC
Wink* wink*
You, I like you
i knew i wouldn’t be the only one watching this in 2024 but 2 days ago is crazy
YESSS very EPIC
I see what you did there
My English teacher named his little dog Argos after Odysseus’s dog
He also wants another dog to name him Enkidu after the animalistic friend from the epic of Gilgamesh
I may still his name ideas
*steal
Aughhhh that’s adorable and sad at the same time
I have a goldfish named Swim Shady...
Mr Conrad?
I’d name my dog Cerberus
"Im a mage! I have like two hit points!" You have just gained a sub, my friend.
Odysseus : I'll swear by Zeus so you don't break my "leg"
1. Dungeons and Dragons reference, nice!
2. *then I suggest you turn them back before I have to whittle that number down to zero*
That is one buff magic-user! Mine is 7th lvl and I WISH he had 2 HP!
Is there a type of mage sure with more than 2 points.
"...and then the dog dies." officially the WORST sequel to the Illiad
Yes well, how old was the dog?
@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 Apparently the dog had been waiting for like 20 years, which makes it 1000000000 times sadder
He wags his tail once. And then dies. 😢 Heartbreaking.
@@aumathewarriormouse2549 sweet release
I extensively researched The Odyssey while learning about The Iliad in high school and I firmly believe that I blocked this out. Pupper!
My favorite thing about the Athena convincing Ithaca thing is that their complaints were about Odysseus breaking hospitality by killing his guests. Despite those “guests” having long since gone from guests to home invaders.
The most important theme of Odyssey is hospitality.
Those who practice xenia well are rewarded in the story and those who are horrible hosts or ungreatful guests suffer dearly.
It's Philoxenia. Xenos by itself means foreign.
Φιλοξενια in greek.
φιλώ (= αγαπώ) + ξένος : love + foreign/other.
The Phaeacians get their boat turned to stone for helping out Odysseus, cuz the interests of a god (symbolizing power structure itself, I feel like) cannot be prioritized over human actions...Poseiden would've gotten mega butthurt if Zeus didn't let him punish the Phaeacians, cuz it would've made him look bad (and the Phaeacians even swear off hospitality afterwards)
@@Polydopamine xenophilia maybe?
Because xenophobia is all we have in our society instead...
@@Polydopamine Xenia is the actual term though. Look it up.
Apart from the part (omitted in this summary) where Odysseus slaughters all his servants for the awful crime of being hospitable to his wife's suitors.
This channel is incredibly underrated. Seriously.
+SnapZ I *fully* agree, Overly Sarcastic Productions is amazing!
I100% agree w\ u on this one
I like how they do this in a comic style, it looks a lot like how I do it. I also Crack up whenever I think about the siren part
Most people suck the myths dry and get them all wrong. This is the most accurate and reliable channel or person who gets the myths correct. Her and Rick Riordan are very accurate. Rick makes some mistakes though but I still recommend his books to everybody. Especially his Percy Jackson books, the first ones kinda boring but just give it a chance.
Yes underrated by 67k subscribers
10:36
“You’re back.”
“You’re really back. I was beginning to think you were *never* gonna make it.
“...I’m glad you’re back.”
“Let me just”
“rest”
“a litte”
“and then”
“ “
___________
Goodbye old friend...
I’m glad I got to see you last time.
Dusk NightWings I didn’t ask for this pain 😭.
Dusk NightWings NOOOOOO
:(
WHHHHHYYYY!?
Death: **[sobbing]** I hate this job some days.
“Wait, wait! I’m a mage! I have 2 hit points!”
“Then I suggest you turn them back, before I have to whittle that number to zero”
Such a badass line
Best part of the video. 10/10
You didn't mention Penelope's cunning plan to keep the suitors at bay while Odysseus was gone (though given how dense this all is, I don't blame you). She claimed she had to weave a death shroud for her father (or possibly Odysseus, it's been a while) before she could consider courting anyone, so she would weave and weave all day, then at night after they went to sleep, she would unravel what she'd woven, so she always was working on this project for ages and ages.
And apparently they were all suuuuuper drunk, since they bought it until someone spotted her unraveling her work, but by that point Odysseus was hatching his plan, so it all worked out okay!
They bought that bs for like 20years, they pretty much deserve to die at odiseus and telemacus hands
I was about to comment this, i feel like it's an important detail to the story left out
@@ecthelionalfa Personally, I'd say they deserved to die for plotting to murder the son of the extremely rich "widow" that they were courting. You ended up in the right place, however, so why quibble over the path? lol
Also, I think one of Penelope’s maids ratted her out because she was being seduced by one of the suitors.
@@stanklepoot "You ended up in the right place, however, so why quibble over the path?"
A message that Odysseus would appreciate, I feel...
Also anyone who's had to delay their path in life which is why *I'm* having feels right now.
I love the part with the dog because it's adorable (initially) and it shows that even thousands of years ago people were affected by the death of dogs enough that it was included in this book.
you should check out a video titled "How They Did It: Pet Dogs in Ancient Rome." The last bit of the video showcases several dog graves with epithets inscribed on them, and they are absolute heart-wrenching, tear-jerkers.
@@lv26Phoenix I watched that a few times. I cry a river everytime
One could argue that it shows how loyal dogs can be. The dog must have been at least a year or two old when Odysseus left. The Troyan war went on for 9 years. Odysseus way back took 10 years. That dog was at least 20 years old when Odysseus returned.
For a ten year trip, Odysseus was sailing for a maximum of 2 years: 1 year with Circe, and 7 years with Calypso, not counting the numerous other stops.
He was with Circe and Calypso for that amount of time - he also stays an entire month with the wind god Aelous like dude, do you NOT wanna get home??!! You have a wife and son waiting for you 🙄 And then he gets his entire crew killed..
@@abbiebagnell1398 Tbf, Eurylochus is the one who killed the sacred bull that Odysseus was warned not to harm
It's kind of like the Israelites taking 40 years to get from the Red Sea to Jerusalem. It's like 500km. Sure, you're hoofing it with an enormous population including children and old folks, but you're telling me they couldn't do even a mile a day and be there within a year? It's not like they're having to stop for food--they're being followed around by a tornado that's literally chucking snacks at them.
@@GSBarlevwell the 40 years thing was punishment from God because they were worshiping idols
One thing to remember is that these were the days of sailing ships, and pretty early sailing ships too. You had to wait for favorable winds before you could set sail. Getting holed up somewhere for a month because the weather isn’t in your favor isn’t an uncommon occurrence,
I like how Odysseus just casually sails to hell and back like it's nothing
I made this joke to my brother when the Circe Saga for Epic: The Musical came out and she tells them she'll send them to the Underworld - "Circe, when asked for help, told Odysseus to literally 'Go to Hell'.
@@cameronmcknight1525Damn Circe’s savage
Okay I’ll be that person:
“We’ve suffered and sailed through the toughest of hells now you tell us our effort’s for nothing?”
Awwww the dog is so happy that his owner is back
"And the dog dies"
...
OH COME ON!
Well he the dog was pretty damn old
No shit, Odysseus left the dog and didn't come back until like 20 years later. So the dog was like 150 years old in dog years, I'm not surprised he fuckin died.
At least he saw his master before he passed. RIP Argos, you were such a good boy~!
I feel ya broo 😭😂
the dog waited for odysseus to come back and then died when he finally did. like hachiko, but without the coming back part
I hear the lotus eaters are doing pretty well for themselves,they have a casino in Vegas
Andrew Barnes Yea in Percy Jackson movies
Edit: So first of all I seen that mostly everyone is upset with me by saying The Percy Jackson movie of the lotus eaters but I never said it was better than the books I only said the movies because I’m pretty sure in the books they don’t eat the lotus it was only in the first movie and the book is way better have a goody day ❤️and please don’t be mad at me😔😂😂
Jennifer Resendiz Percy Jackson BOOKS. We don't talk about the movies around here.
@@ashleyresendiz8911 we do not speak of those awful mistakes
WE DO NOT SPEAK OF THOSE ATROCITIES!
R/mad lads
you forgot Elpenor, who had the best stupid death in the entire book.
Survives the Trojan war, survives the cyclopes, the canibals and swinification.
Gets drunk, falls asleep on the roof, falls off in his sleep and breaks his neck.
Dan he is my whole a level class favourite character
XD
Best way to go out
😂😂
And he was one of the spirits with the prophet Tiresias. He begged Odysseus to go back to Aeaea to give his body a proper burial.
Being back here after the Thunder Saga dropped hits different 🥲
Frr
yass I'm not the only once who came here 9 years after this was posted to look for EPIC
People in Greek myths: *live happily ever after*
Hera: wait that’s illegal
Perseus is one of the only ones with a happy ending
@@emmaunderwood9201 And that one was only because the dude was physically incapable of having a fault.
@@user-ez9ng2rw9c yeah lol but still
Eros
Lmfao
For those who wanted to know, I believe Ajax is mad at Odysseus because after Achilles' death there was an argument over who would get his stuff. The two main contenders were Odysseus and Ajax, and of course, Odysseus won. Basically, this resulted in ultimate saltiness and Ajax just falling on his own spear
Why wasn’t Ajax chill about it?
@@JaelinBezel pride or sum, no?
@@starstrukc I just don't understand why he cared so much.
@@JaelinBezel I mean, it did happen b.c.
I’m pretty sure pride was some rlly important to them. Like really really important.
Ajax was mostly pissed because Odysseus was a lot less strong than he was, but had cajoled a story that might have contained half-truths as well. Bottom like, while Ajax assumed most worthy for Achilles' weapons = best fighter, Odysseus crafted a narrative that showed that Odysseus was most worthy, even if Ajax was the stronger dude.
Ajax wasn't even most angry at Odysseus: the real guys who dun goofed in his opinion were the judges, as they, according to Ajax, should have seen through the smart talk and have recognized that he was the strongest. They didn't, so they had to die, and that's when the gods made him hack a bunch of sheep up because in the darkness and blind rage he mistook them for the Greek leaders. He basically killed himself out of embarrasment afterwards.
Scylla: *is supposed to be hideous six headed monster*
Red: *draws what would end up being a tsundere waifu in mangas or animoos*
Story idea: Odysseus accidentally keeps picking up hot monster girls but his heat is set on his wife.
@@samuelthegreatoo so basically half of all isekai anime’s ever lol
what timestamp did scylla appear?
well we studied about scylla, I think she was a nymph and Circe cursed her cuz she was jealous of her, (Circe is jealous cuz a guy liked Scylla so he asked Circe for it not knowing Circe liked the guy and so instead of love potion she made a curse potion
4:13 I remember a joke I found on tumblr a while back about Odysseus and Cassandra. It went something like
Odysseus: Hey, I heard you could hear the future or something, what's that about?
Cassandra: I'm cursed to see the future but nobody believes me.
Odysseus: Tell me.
Cassandra: I just said, if I prophesize-
Odysseus: Nonono... I'm nobody.
And then Cassandra helps him get home in not ten years and they both live happily ever after. I thought it was really funny and cute. The actual thing was written better though.
Aw, that's sweet. I looked it up--your retelling was actually better than the original, IMO.
There's a bloody fanfiction of this concept on Ao3-
@@calikikitaru3519do you perhaps know the title or have the link?
@calikikitaru3519 i, too, would like for a link of this AO3. But it must be in a form of a riddle!
For you see, the scaly monster named Algorithm hates nasty links and gobbles them up-
@@calikikitaru3519 oh i know that one !!
10:40
Why did the dog have to die?!
Congratulations! You've just beholden an example of a literal ancient trope of the beloved pet death. It galvanizes the hero, makes the villians irrideemable, and can be see in anime (JoJos bizzare adventure), movies (John Wick), and countless books.
Also serves as a painful reminder of the passage of time in my opinion (possibly because I think about it a lot). It's been 20 years. Good boy. Old boy. Odysseus doesn't get those years back, but he does get to earn his future *now.*
I read a comic version in high school where the dog's spirit is carried away by Athena after he dies.
Somehow made it both worse AND better. Maybe Odysseus reunited with the little guy in Elysium.
Also appears in video games (Doom slayers pet rabbit) but not that much compared to other forms of media and entertainment
The dog finaly completed his mission.
Yeah but the dog wasn't murdered though, he just died of old age. So unless time is supposed to be the villain this is horribly off base.
I can kinda answer the lotus thing. Widely spread across the area is the "blue lotus" which is really a water lily. From Egypt originally I think.
Anyway. It has a pleasant lightweight opium type effect that can chill you out. It's popularly made into a tea.
I learned something new today
So like...Mother nature's drugs??
@@justjoe7081 Poppy flowers naturally contain opium, which is refined into morphine and other opiate drugs in the modern day.
@@justjoe7081 all drugs are from nature...
I had them in my garden pond. Dang, wish I'd known about their properties sooner.
Man, that Argos part just rips your heart out if you’ve ever had a dog. :(
Also I love how Penelope also tests Odysseus by pranking him about their bed.
Epic The Musical has me watching this and I regret NOTHING
Yay! It's not just me! Epic fans unite!
@@theintrovert_227woo! What's your favorite song? Mines Open Amrs :D
@@LadyMythos315 Ooo, I love that one! Warrior of the Mind is my favorite
Sameee
Saaammmmeeee
What about when Penelope stalls for time by weaving a death shroud for her husband only to unravel every night until the suitors find out and burn it?
Yeah, I was sorry Red skipped that bit! This vid kinda makes Penelope look rather passive, whereas she was really doing her best to stall the invading suitors & minimize the dangers they posed to her son and other dependents?
Gotta say though, the way her maidservants were treated by Homer always pissed me off - in reality they'd probably have been r*pe victims of assault by the suitors rather than their willing partners, but he seems to consider them worthy of death because of that 😕 The only one who really seemed to merit revenge was the one who betrayed Penelope's ruse...?
Tiny correction- her father-in-law; Odysseus' mother had already died, & she was one of the spirits he saw in the Underworld...
I remember in high school we read the odyssey, and at the beginning we read Odysseus saying he was stuck in Calypso’s “smooth caves” and we were all laughing hysterically.
Me: *RIGS UP CHAIN SWORD* I just want to talk to her
@@crowbell3059 dont worry friend, the Inquisition is on the way
@@crowbell3059
Me: **REFUELS FLAMETHROWER WITH RELIGIOUS INTENT**
Can I come too? I want a word as well!
I feel like Athena was just done with all the bs and she’s just like “ok let’s just get this dude home” and I’m FINALLY
Seriously! I think people really underestimate the role she had in this. She was a real mentor and took care of his son while he was gone, gave counsel to his wife, regulated the country, and directly helped Odysseus on multiple occasions. I think she even partook in the slaughter of the suitors if I remember correctly
@@hah-no. I think it's because in all but blood Odysseus is basically Athena's son, as the goddess of knowledge and warfare, Odysseus is her perfect mortal.
@@rimurutempest4945 yeeees, I always loved the way that fit 🤍
Wait a minute: if Odysseus was believed to be dead, then why didn’t his son take the throne immediately after he came of age? The boy is literally about 20 years old when his father finally returned
Also: Athena glares at Zeus and the rest of the gods, “you better not use the ‘no murdering guests’ rule against him or I’ll show you why I’m better than Aries.”
Well to answer your question: the short answer is that the suitors were also the nobles of the island. And they had a lot of political power, while Telemachus even tho was the heir, had no political support.
Also about the joke, don't worry. they didn't act as guests, so they don't get to be treated as guests. :)
Hey, they brought weapons inside. And plotted to murder Telemachus.
They weren't HIS guests.
And they planned to kill him first
From what i know the succesion that time wasnt going 100% from father to son and it was believed that zeus was the one to choose the next king
Athena also yanks on the furies lead before turning them into lawyers again.
“Pissed at Odysseus for reasons too complicated for this video”
The Greek commanders decided Odysseus was cooler than Ajax and thus should be given Achilles’ sweet-ass armor. Ajax killed himself in a fit of jealousy and shame. Also he killed some cows.
And he apparently did this with a silver sword given to him by Hector
Poor Hector
My mythology professor says she reads this book whenever she goes to the airport because as bad the delays get Odysseus still had it worse. I ended up following her advice when I had to deal with a 6 hour layover in Germany.
You should become a life advisor.
I don't know if it's an actual job,but IT SHOULD BE.
uh thanks, I think
Liz Maxx
Pretty sure that's what a therapist is. Or guidence councillor.
“Achilles and Patroclus, now hetero-death partners,”
“I’m a mage! I have, like two hit points!”
“And his old dog recognizes him right away, and then dies😭”
Yes hetero very very hetero
RIP Argos 😭 you are the best boi
The dog really want to wait and when he finally see his owner he rest in peace 😭
Shirt ideas?
Overly Sarcastic Productions out of context
The sirens singing 'turn the beat around' will always be funny
"healthy father, son bonding by killing everyone". aaaaawww.
And accidently shooting your son in the meantime. But he is okay so, yes, BONDING!
And dead dog...
WHYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
@@pershe4231 Hey guys 💜 I'm a starting art channel 😌🤓 Any support would be appreciated ❤😘I post videos every week.😺
@@artlife1625 get out of my way man stop begging for subscribers
Fan fact: Homer takes the time to describe the the kind of cheese Polyphemus was making in his cave:
“We soon reached his cave, but [Polyphemos] was out shepherding, so we went inside and took stock of all that we could see. His cheese-racks were loaded with cheeses, and he had more lambs and kids than his pens could hold. They were kept in separate flocks; first there were the hoggets, then the oldest of the younger lambs and lastly the very young ones all kept apart from one another; as for his dairy, all the vessels, bowls, and milk pails into which he milked, were swimming with whey.”
This of course is the recipe for Feta Cheese which is enshrined in Greek law to this day. And it comes FROM THE FREAKING ODYSSEY!
What the actual fuck
Cheese from Legend, Epic
Can I tell you about Zeus, he's the o B e true God above all... he loves you
So fantasy writers in the 20th Century got food descriptions from Homer?
"Oh yeah,it's all coming together."
Lmao, imagine the epic high fantasy book you’re reading is suddenly interrupted by a really good soup recipe. That’s basically this. 😂
If I remember right from when I re-read this a few years ago, Odysseus was very emotional upon seeing his dog still alive and loyal. But since he couldn't give himself away with any outbursts of emotion, the most he could do was choke back some tears and walk into his home without properly saying hello or goodbye. What's worse, I remember the book took time to explain that Odysseus had raised the dog from infancy into one of the best hunting hounds in Greece, but he had become neglected; most likely due to the suitors.
Poor thing had a good innings- 20 in dog years...
No wonder why he personally killed them all
7:33 The fact that this would go on to be a motif in EPIC is some scary foresight.
I love how Red basically made Odysseus just like Greek Solid snake
Hnnnng, Penelope, I'm trying sail back to Ithaca but I'm dummy thicc and the clap of my ass cheeks keeps alerting Posiedon
@@valkaerie8715 I read that in David Hayter's voice.
He really kinda was though. A badass warrior that was the only one to suggest a night time stealth mission, and actually possessed battlefield wisdom and strategy
odysseus ODYSSEUS? ODYSSEUSSSS!!!?????
Iroquois Patroclus: "The Trojan Horse that you have is ideal for fooling your enemies. It's a very important tool for infiltration missions."
Odysseus is, by far, THE best character in the odyssey.
And also in the Iliad
Odysseus is like that popular character in a series that gets his own spin-off when that series inevitably ends.
What about Diomedes?
@@mihirmutalikdesai He wasn't good enough to get his own spin-off but he did get a cameo in a particularly popular fanfiction.
Odysseus is one helluva badass character.
10/10
"Solid Snek" - IGN
@@whoknows7968 Odysseus=Frasier
You know what? Since you made Odysseus look like Solid Snake you should have had him say "Kept ya waiting, huh?" when he revealed himself at the palace.
Anyone else coming here in 2024 to learn the overarching plotline of Epic: The Odyssey Saga musical?
Also:
I love how every description of Scylla essentially boils down to "An ugly piece of work" but every animatic I've seen of her depicts her as a Monster pin-up girl with ugly bits attatched.
yes
i watched this videos years ago but yea thats the basic reason for my rewatch
Yes!!!!!!!!!
Using her original nymph body as a sort of human half for her is much more palatable than what she's actually described to look like in the myth. There are images that are closer. Pretty sure Jorge showed one that was accurate in a tiktok or something.
Same lol my name and pfp is epic related
I like how the sirens are depicted as they actually are: NOT MERMAIDS!
Patrick Frost agreed
WHAT?
I KNOW RIGHT?!
I know!
I hate seeing mermaid Sirens!
Patrick Frost in my writings mermaids are a sort of cousin to sirens but that is how I write
I don't think you give yourself enough credit, the comedic contextualization/summaries of the happenings you throw in here and there get a good chuckle out of me. Most people who know me think I'm humor impaired, getting multiple genuine chuckles if not outright laughs out of me isn't an unremarkable feat.
Odysseus - "I want to have a thing"
Half the Greek Pantheon - *EYES GLOW*
So they're making a musical of this, called Epic. There's a few songs out already; the cyclops saga ones are fantastic. Really hope it makes it to broadway!
Yess!! A bit I'm confused Abt is in EPIC Zues gives Odysseus a quest for like a kiddo that he needs to kill but it isn't mentioned here imma have to do more research I suppose
EPIC does take several liberties with what happens during the Odyssey (ex. Polites dying to Polyphemus), but I’m enjoying it so much- I swear every song is a banger
If it makes it to Broadway, I'm going full speed ahead to NY
@@jordancoons3364 I hope you SURVIVE on your journey!
My goodbye is the best song
My English teacher showed this video to our class after we were done reading to book; and no, he has absolutely no problem with cursing. He's like the typical nice-guy teacher everybody likes, but he tolerates cursing. Kinda ironic really. Also, my class flipped their shit when Argos died. I think a few girls cried, and the nerd population of the class had serious war flashbacks from Futurama. It was intense man.
you bastard... now _I'm_ getting Futurama flashbacks...
He pulled a Hachiko!
Jillybean711 *fortunate son intensifies*
My English teacher didn't even have the real book we basically just had to read the summary :-(
I went to hug my dog after the Argos part, and he just had the most "Yeah, whatever dude" atitude about it!
"This guy gets put through more crap than a 20 pound bag of industrial strength Huggies sized for incontinent bulls." Poetry, Miss Red, sheer poetry. XD
Öllo $lv.l.opl.o,oopsl omkg yb you get ygloplplp0
.l.
You forgot Penelope hard trolling Odysseus... just to make sure that he was her husband.
Edit: If people are confused as to how? Well, basically Penelope went up to Odysseus after he cleaned up and was like "Awesome, you're home. I"m afraid you're going to have to sleep on the couch though b/c I moved our bed."
Odysseus: "Um... Honey, that's not possible."
Penelope: *slyly* Whaat?
Odysseus: I carved our bed out of a mega-humongous tree branch that stuck itself into our window. It's literally a living bed and can't be moved. (I have no idea how he managed to do this)
Penelope: *phew, tackles Odysseus* "YESSS YOU'RE MY HUBBY!" *kissy kissy*
virusguy5611
virusguy5611 lol, this actually my favorite part in the story
This along with Penelope’s shroud trick (where she says I’ll decide which suitor to marry when I finish sewing this shroud then slyly unpicks it every night until Odysseus returns) is actually what depicts her as the perfect wife for Odysseus and thus along with the idea of nostos is why he doesn’t say with nausicaa the white armed virginal princess who is the personification of the perfect wife and coincidentally wants to marry him
Oh that shroud trick was absolutely hilarious, and she would have gotten away with that trick if that maid hadn't tattled on her!
She was wary, it could have been a clever imposer. Sad that she isnt showing Penelope holding them off with knotting and unknotting later at night the same stupid piece of textil for griefing odesseus death. for ten or twenty years.
It appears that my Epic the Musical hyperfixation has led me back to this video after 9 years
Just like me fr
Me too, It compelled me to read the actual odyssey and now I'm re-watching this vid too.
Like a ghost from the underworld. It keeps coming back to haunt us.
I'm glad im not the only one who watched this video before Epic the Musical (as much as I love it) 😅.
You didn't depict the sirens as mermaids! I'm impressed, most people get that wrong
No, Sirens are historically depicted as birds.
Rhett you idiot sirens are fish not birds
@@jessiek289 "you idiot they were fish"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren_(mythology)
@@cbchansey6866 i know YOU ARE NOT MY MOM
**CHOICE** STOP BEING A BI-
"Do your thing, oh god of telling me stuff!"
"Do your thing, oh god of exposition!"
That is an incredibly accurate summary of the guy's way to handle problems.
any RPG player in general
when i lose the TV remote
when a person died, "well that sucks for them" when a dog died...
WHYYYYYYY
I was more upset about the dog then I was about Agamemnon.
@@brownowl7498 We ALL were
Well thats to be expected. For example: Characters die often in futurama but that one episode about Fry's dog waiting for him is the saddest in the series.
cause dogs are seen as loyal and innocent
Forget every other Greek myth or legend, THAT was tragic.
12:02 You missed one of my favorite parts of the bow contest-where teenage Telemachus made several attempts to string his father’s giant warbow, and didn’t stop trying until Odysseus like, put his hand on his son’s shoulder
In a graphic novel I read of this book, when Argos dies, Athena comes and takes his soul and carries him away. Cue the tears.
Sophie the Jedi Knight I loved that part when I read the book for my freshman English class
Why the dog always dies? I was having a good day and now I'm depressed
I read a graphic novel of this story too and the same thing happened in it so I think we read the same thing. And yes it was REALLY sad.
What's the graphic novel? I need to know.
Sxlty Aye A graphic novel is like a comic book in many ways but they are two different things. (Too me)
CIRCE: I'm a mage, I have like two hit points.
I literally burst out laughing at that
She forgor to put stat points into vitality
Red: "Scylla is one ugly piece of work"
Also Red: *makes her hot*
It's kind of ironic that despite being asexual and having a very minimalist style she still makes characters incredibly sexual
@@airplanes_aren.t_real what
@@airplanes_aren.t_real well she probably doesn't see how it's sexual no matter how they're drawn
@@airplanes_aren.t_real Most Greek art is pretty sexualized or at least revealing, it's not that surprising.
@@CreditR01 fair point, wonder why they had such a habit of portraying people naked
Ruthlessness is Mercy Upon Ourselves.
Perimedes yeets babies off of towers
This life is AMAZING when you greet it with open arms! Whatever we face we'll be fine if we're leading from the heart! *Proceeds to snatch Odysseus's sword and yeet it off a bridge*
I'M JUST A MAN!
Mercy has a price its the final crack we are bound to break the ice now ,,
You revealed you're name and let him live unlike you I've got no mercy to give cause RUTHLESSNESS IS MERCY UPON OURSELVES
"Wait, wait, I'm a mage, I have like two hit points!"
"Then I guess you better turn them back before I have to whittle that number down to zero."
Badass. I'm stealing that
Me too!
Immediately, my mind went to D&D.
That is incredibly small even for a mage i think shes a healer
@@laelsimeontorreda6132 clerics/druids have more health than wizards/sorcerers
@@falxblade1352 Clerics/druids also have to contend with punitive, petulant, arbitrary, whimsical DMs denying spell choices, forcing spell choices, or otherwise screwing them over. A mage commands his own magic, no dependency on external permissions.
I keep coming back to this video after every binge listen of Epic to compare. Homer’s Ody is definitely just a poor man dragged around by the gods while Epic’s Ody keep making decisions that leads to multiple tragedies, slowly numbing him and reshaping him into a monstrous man that makes his fun father-son murder bonding time feel… tragic. In Epic, he keeps insisting to his adult son and his aged wife that he’s the same as before. 😢
That achilles and petroclus music gets me everytime XD
Berra Saral hahahahah yeahh
EVERY time
LMAO dude, it's just the saxophone part from Careless Whisper by George Michael. XD
Sakura Moonflower The lyrics capture the "no homo" vibe surprisingly well XD. The careless whisper of a "friend" indeed.
Berra Saral lmao same I keep on repeating that part
I have rewatched pretty much all of Red's videos, and the scene with the dog's thoughts is the only one of all of her artistic representations that consistently makes me tear up
For anyone interested, there's a really good paper out there called 'Odyssey and Argonautica' by Martin West (2005). He uses clues from the Odyssey to try to figure out what the original dark age version of Jason and the Argonauts might have been like (because it never got written down and we only have much later fanficcy versions to go by). In the process, he comes up with some persuasive arguments about the crazy unmappable geography of the Odyssey. Well, persuasive to me, anyway.
Long story short, the reason nobody can map Odysseus's travels based on landmarks in the story is because (according to West) it probably went through three major revisions by the dark age bards before it was written down--or was edited together from three different versions:
In the hypothetical *OG Odyssey*, Odysseus gets blown off course to the EASTERN Mediterranean, to exotic but known countries like Egypt. He has the same adventures that Menelaus now has, including getting marooned on the island of Pharos and jumping on the shapeshifting Proteus guy. Then he goes home.
This version would have been kinda sorta historically accurate, in the same way that the Iliad is kinda sorta historically accurate about some details like where ships came from. Maybe it even recorded real events that happened to some Greeks after the war. But it would also frankly have been kinda boring. And the bards, and/or the audience, were like, "Wait, what was Menelaus doing this whole time? And also, this story could really do with some monsters to appeal to the dark age mass market. You know, like the Sirens from Jason and the Argonauts."
So the story was (probably) revised to *Odyssey 2.0*, in which Menelaus got all the adventures Odysseus originally had. Meanwhile Odysseus himself got blown off course into the WESTERN Mediterranean, where he could have crazy adventures with the Cyclops in some imaginary place. In this version, after his stupid crew open the bag of wind, it causes a terrible storm that destroys the ship/fleet and kills everyone but Odysseus. He washes up on an island all alone ... because the bards are copy-pasting the end of the previous version to make sure it still connects to the homecoming to Ithaca. Only now that he's in the western Mediterranean, the island can't be Pharos. So they invent Calypso's island instead.
OK, well, the geography is not terribly historically accurate anymore and we're well into the realm of random ogre folktale stuff to keep the cheap seats happy, but the Cyclops part is a fantastic bit of storytelling and really showcases Odysseus's character, so on the whole it's an improvement.
But ... the bards, and/or the audience, may by this point have been a little drunk on their own success. "Hey, that Cyclops bit went down a treat! You know what this story needs? More cool monsters! Like in Jason and the Argonauts! Like the Sirens!"
So then along comes *Odyssey 3.0*, in which a bunch of random adventures inspired by Jason and the Argonauts are shoved into the middle of Odysseus's wanderings. Sirens, Circe, cannibal giants, seeing/visiting Hades, sun-god cattle, etc. To make this work, opening the bag of wind doesn't cause the final storm anymore--it just blows them back to Aeolus and they have to keep on sailing. The storm/lightning gets saved up till after the new adventures, and is assigned to a pissed-off god.
And that's the version written down by Homer. Which became hella popular. Job well done.
Except ...
Jason and the Argonauts pretty clearly takes place in the Black Sea. Which is NORTH-EAST of the Mediterranean. By plonking Argonauts-derived stuff like the Sirens down in the middle of the Odyssey--which otherwise takes place in the WEST--the geography, which was already wobbly thanks to the Cyclops addition, now gets completely frazzled. Scholars for millennia to come will try to map the journey according to known landmarks, get utterly confused, smack their foreheads in exasperation and declare that the whole thing is some kind of psychological imaginative Jungian journey or whatever.
And to make matters worse--or better, depending on your point of view--some scholars are like, "OK, he starts in the west and comes home from the west, so clearly EVERYTHING must happen out near Italy and Sicily! Including Circe and the Sirens and so on. Otherwise Odysseus would need a portal gun or something. And we don't even have a concept of that."
So when Apollonius writes his big-budget blockbuster remake of Jason and the Argonauts a few centuries later, he takes the 'evidence' from the Odyssey. He puts the Sirens and Circe in the western sea. And he forces the Argonauts to take that route home, instead of the eastern route they took in older sources (before the Greeks learned that the Black Sea was enclosed).
So not just one, but TWO famous dark age stories--that may have preserved some genuine historical and geographical details--got shipwrecked on the rocks of a) popular entertainment and b) obsessive fan theorycrafting.
I guess the Sirens won after all.
(also btw there's totally some other stuff in the Odyssey ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh but I won't go into that)
You should really get into that whole Glilgamesh ripoff thing
@@robind506 i think by this point, OP's hella exhausted. Good read tho, would love extra exposition.
Thanks for this video because now I know the entire plot of *“Epic the Musical”*
Troy Story 2: Electric Boogaloo
Plplplplplplplpl *hand waves like the waves of the sea* electric boogaloo
Timothy O'Rourke 😂
FUCK!
Did you say that when drunk on corned beef, burning four leaf clovers, and full of whiskey
Can’t believe Homer Simpson wrote a book about the new Assassin’s Creed game...amazing!!
I didn't know that either.
I know you're joking, and this is a channel for sarcasm, but still...
Uncultured swine!
With the plot of the newest 3D Mario game too!
It's like that time when he named his wooden horse after a famous computer virus
Iker González Sánchez “I know you’re joking...”
I showed this to my entire 9th grade class and they loved it! Thank you Overly Sarcastic Productions!
"Hetero Death Partners"
🏳️🌈
️🌈🏳️🌈️🌈
song of achilles
**careless whisper sample**
Bet they were buried side by side like Dedue and Dimitri
@@xuanathan Actually, from what I remember they wanted their ashes mixed together.
Love the fact that if you go to newest comments you just get to see all the Epic fans gathering
lol
We’re everywhere
Tbh I expected to see more PM fans
@@victorvirgili4447 what’s that?
@@Dawn_the_dragon project moon, makes lotsa cool and extremely hard games
their newest game, limbus company (lcb for short, the b is to not confuse it with their first game lc) has characters based on classic litterature, including outis who is based on odysseus. in this channel's classics summarized: don quixote video you can find a lot of pm fans spamming memes about the lcb character don quixote, a fan favorite
"You need to talk to this dude to leave."
"Cool, where is he?"
"He's dead!"
"Frick."
“Did you just tell me to go to hell?”
'Tragic swinification!' Awesome.
Every time I rewatch this I hear "huh. Why would I need this when I have a perfectly servicable raft?" I brace myself for the loudest raft breaking noise ever.
don't mind watching this much later than i shouldve just so i can appreciate Epic the Musical a bit more
Same here :)
Odysseus: so.. it's like drugs?
People on the island: it's better than drugs Odysseus... IT'S FROM JAPAN!!!!!
It's a gray oblong pill
yES
Quantum nano-technology CPU!!!!!!
Al the trash bag I [internal screeching]
Al the trash bag YAAAAASSSSSS