An Unnecessarily Detailed Strategic Analysis of Valefisk's Diplomacy Game
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Valefisk's Diplomacy Game: • Gaming, but I'm Secret...
Join Diplomacy pros CaptainMeme and Ezio as they painstakingly analyse every phase of the Diplomacy game where Valefisk used ChatGPT to determine his actions!
Diplomacy is a negotiation-based board game set during World War One. 7 players each control one great power (England, France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Russia, and Turkey) and fight for control of Europe, using their diplomatic skill to make covert deals with one another and to backstab their friends.
00:00:00 S01
00:18:40 F01
00:24:31 W01
00:31:19 S02
00:43:40 F02
00:53:53 W02
01:11:24 S03
01:22:11 F03
01:37:51 W03
01:39:13 S04
01:47:38 F04
01:52:51 W04
02:01:20 S05
02:08:39 F05
02:11:52 W05
02:13:21 S06
02:17:15 F06
02:20:36 W06
02:23:02 S07
02:26:53 F07
02:29:05 W07
02:30:06 S08 - เกม
Wow - genuinely really cool to have such a high-level, detailed analysis...of an absolute catastrophe ;) Thank you guys so much for doing this.
This is maybe the tenth game of diplomacy we've played as a group. We try to do everything in one night (with people hopefully sleeping at a decent hour), so the turn timer is limited to just 10 minutes. Not just 10 minutes for negotiating, ten minutes total. It doesn't always work out to ten, but keeping it like that keeps what can be a very long game moving (this one ended up being about 5 hours total). While this certainly works, it creates its own chaos...with so many units and negotations everyone ends up messing up a ton and the suboptimal moves always throw a wrench into every plan.
The ChatGPT angle certainly did not go as I was expecting it to. I was imagining it would make terrible decisions and have me throw the game almost immediately. In reality, it meant I couldn't commit fully to doing anything at all and had to flip-flop every other turn. I was trying to work around the AI while still keeping myself within its limits...but all this really did was result in turns like Spring 1905 where I'm forced to abandon a good position against France because it goes "yeah, go attack Germany now, loser" and I had to listen to it. Normally when playing diplomacy I'm one of the people you can trust more often than others, but I think me not being at all like that this game really screwed with how France/Germany/Russia were interacting with me.
Thanks again for making this, it was a really fun watch and makes me want to play more Diplomacy...although, probably not another big video like that for at least a while. This one took me over a month to edit with all the animations involved ( ;-; ). I try really hard with games like this to make it completely digestible for someone who doesn't even know what Diplomacy is, so it's really nice to take a step back from that and actually see Diplomacy as the complex game that I love.
It was definitely the most fun I've had playing Diplomacy. I should play like a total rat more often :)
A rat beset by rats
“Normally when playing diplomacy I’m one of the people you can trust more often then others”
[x] Doubt
@@jackofalltrades6061it’s all relative, he plays with absolute cretins.
Now go finish the CNA video so we can get a full analysis of that
rather than chatgpt, how about diplomacy but there's an expert that anyone can consult and bring into a "room", although they have flipped a coin about whether to give good advice or misleading advice each turn
Strategically analyzing Teddy 💀
"I'm so cooked."
"My balls, they itch"
This is the most real comment. He keeps flipping between “We have a massive Turkish problem,” “let’s kill Chamber,” and “I’m so cooked.”
I like how in vales video in the first round he went "pretty standard round" and in this you guys immediately go "a whole non-standard openings" off to a great start😭
From the 2 games his group has played on TH-cam it’s readily apparent they have a “unique” play style were confusing and enraging the other players is the most important goal
From vale's perspective, they are standard, because he plays with the same people over and over.
It’s standard for their typical games. But we’re talking about someone who lives off of videos of providing terrible unfun games to their friends to make them miserable someone who’s priorities in a hurricane are must play diplomacy someone entirely wasted and some rats. This is the exact opposite of a standard group
The fact that Vale's torture has escaped from his own video and begun to frustrate the hosts of an entirely different channel.
They need to be shown the miracle of vale games first hand.
"A common beginner mistake for Austria is assuming they can take Serbia without issues"
Historically accurate
1:34:20 i can confirm that the backstabbing is not just for the video. This is just how every diplomacy game is for us, as we you could say we play this game for as a social deduction game of who is going to actually play the game, and who is just feeling like watching the world burn on any given day.
I think it's fitting that the first time Rue played the game, he spun his wheel and was imitating the Joker.
@@shadowsovereign4948 and Vale was literally just the Terminator
@@TH-camCommonman_Totas Should've been Hal 9000 imo lol
So Among Us
Bucket of Crab's Syndrome, if you will.
Just watching these professionals scratch their heads trying to decipher the rats with one being led by a machine overlord and one drunk as hell is absolutely hilarious.
And Teddy
This is so ridiculous, getting absolutely disected while totally agreeing with everything is a slightly odd feeling. Btw our house rule is 10min negotiations so you aint got much time to get everything in order as it was a one session thing
It's super enjoyable to watch all the chaos and seeing so little real difference, we all said multiple times during the game that the mental fatigue was real. The writing was on the wall, not much to do against mega turkey at that point
Oh geez, congrats on being able to play under that time control - for reference, pro games have 15min negotiations and most people think that's super tight, especially for early game. Quite often it's 20min for first year too.
But this lines up with Vale's standard torture approach :p
Its what we've done previous games as well, wacky stuff like Italy convoying into greece fall 1901 and other shenanigans
“I will make the Balkans a hellscape.” Made me absolutely lose it laughing
@@DiploStratshold up wtf. How is 15-20 mins playable, at my house we do 5min negotiations. Keeps ppl on their toes.
@@willing1043thats just the natural state for the balkans nothing new
I love how everyone in the session made fun of Maivi for building fleets instead of armies, only it to be a GOOD move
oh, i interpreted it as them being scared about those 2 fleets.
"THAT'S WHY YOU BETRAYED ME OVER BELGIUM?!"
-Lynx, just after swearing fealty to Vale, finding out that Vale's been using Chat GPT to dictate basically all his moves.
I forgot to mention during the commentary - there was a misadjudication in the actual game in S07, with ENG-MAO being counted as successful despite being bounce. Honestly pretty damn impressive there was only one misadjudication in the whole video though, that's less than we see in some professional games :p
EDIT: Vale found us 👀 Thanks for bringing Diplomacy to the masses Mr Fisk
Considering at that point one person was wasted and the other was teddy and everyone overall was fried by s04 its am acceptable result
wasn't there a direct swap of units in eastern balkans as well though?
@@maxpis4412 That was a mistake in the animation, not the game itself - iirc the animation showed Rum/Bul swapping places but what actually happened was Con-Bul, Bul-Rum, Rum-Bla
@@DiploStrats ah ok makes sense
I have had a galaxy-brain idea.
Diplo, but it's bingo. Work to make a bingo board for every empire, and... lines give you permanent +1 army cap or a victory point? Idk there's an idea to be cooked, there.
Inspired by vale's desire to put his foreign expedition in syria.
It's so funny to see all the strategic things, i could have done and did as turkey, analysed.
Whilst it was in reality a iam stressed/my brain is off/whats an convoy moment for me. :D
But i guess that's to be expected as i think this was my third time ever playing diplomacy.
I enjoyed the watch tho, super interesting to see what kinda thought could be behind moves.
I just kinda got lucky with Russia throwing the game. :)
now use that knowledge in another diplomacy game
By the time Russia was throwing you were already rolling! Well played and congrats :D
This may be biased based on the video, but I got the impression you staying somewhat quiet may have helped with all the other shenanigans going on.
@@Sailor_S Yeah personality dynamics are such a big part of what's happening.
Hard to see the quietly panicking short-brained Maivi as a threat, even when she's eating the southeast for breakfast.
@@bareakon didn't it also work in her favor in that one game where she ended up with a ton of tanks as well?
"i dont want to play Italy in this scenario"
I don't think Teddy wanted to play Italy either, which is why all he did was attack everyone the turn after telling them he was going to help them lol.
As someone who was spectating for all of the game it's still pretty funny to see how many blunders happened that i diden't see at the time.
For vale (england) going into warsaw and belgium in S04, i'm pretty sure those were infact mistakes and not him lying to people he kinda just forgot, and the reason for him not killing russia was because he wanted to keep him alive to fight germany, and the move into st.petersberg was done becuase i said it in the public voice chat as an off hand funny move he could do.
I wont Lie. Im about to watch the whole thing. This is awsome
I live how Maivi had no idea how to play the game and everyone shit on her for building 2 more fleets and these guys were like "thats a really good move"
I love how seriously this game is taken. Its like having a sport commentator commentate a game of soccer between 4 year olds 😂😂
Maivi making the right call in terms of builds for Turkey but getting roasted by her friends for it has to be one of the funniest moments for me.
Feels like a lot of the problems would have been solved for England if Vale didn’t need to type instructions to ChatGPT or there were 12 instead of 10 minutes on the turn timer
Lol
To anyone in the comments who hasn’t watched the original video by Valefisk, I highly recommend it! A bunch of drunk content creators who genuinely care about winning the game, it’s great
They're both messing around and also super invested and it's so much fun.
I showed this to the current world champion Jamal Blakkarly today. He's gonna look at it. (We play once a month at local club)
I played at a tournament with him 8 years ago! I wonder if he remembers that :D
@@DiploStrats what's your name? I'll ask him.
@@fan-i-am Markus; he'll probably remember me as the jetlagged British dude
I was literally sitting in the shower, thinking 'Man I wonder what it would be like if this channel analyzed Valefisk's latest diplomacy game', but thought this channel would never do something like that for a amuetur game.
Then I checked my phone and saw this video in my subscription feed.
We usually shy away from commentating amateur games just because a full analysis might come across as overly critical of people who are just learning the game and/or playing to have fun :D
But this ended up being great fun to do!
@@DiploStratswhat do you think of their other game and the interesting hurricane gambit
@@kylezdancewicz7346
I actually thought it wouldn't be possible to analyse because not enough of the moves were visible to recreate the game, but someone sent me a full sandbox yesterday. So we'll review it when we're next both around! (probably in a couple weeks)
@@kylezdancewicz7346i love how you call it a gambit, like teddy summoned hurricane ian so he could win at diplomacy.
@@DefinitelyARobothey, nothing in the rules says you can’t distract your opponent by summoning a natural disaster
The crossover no one expected but everyone needed
i'd love to see a splice of this where its the valefisk video and after each turn we jump to you guys who just have the orders being confused and thing over what there doing.
The way they start giggling the moment the next turn appears is hilarious
I love seeing professionals analyze amateur gaming, this has strong energy of Pokemon Challenges reacting to JaidenAnimation's first nuzlocke video. Down to the pro being able to clock who was going to win or die after like fifteen minutes or so. It's a fascinating new strategic layer that casuals like me wouldn't have seen. Lots of great lines and analysis here. "If you *needed* me alive, if you needed me to win, you should have thought about that before you killed me."
"If you needed me alive, if you needed me to win, you should have thought about that before you killed me."
I immediately imagined a movie that never existed using that line. Or maybe a book.
vale just linked your vid to everyone on his discord btw
Hohboy, bracing for impact
@@DiploStrats
and now there's a community post
@@couldbeusabaker7532 Yeah I'm here from that post. I had no idea this channel even existed. Very hyped for this analysis.
@@jasonutty52 and i am from the recommendation ytp! Didn't know he posted in community also
I love how much of the video is focused on turkey since the valkefisk video is most focused on britians perspective. We can get a view on how maivi won
Yeah, vale was completely oblivious to what was going on in te Balkans and every time he asked he was just told "you don't want to know"
I have an audio suggestion: get Ezio to record their audio locally with Audacity and send it to you as a backup (assuming it syncs up properly, which isn't guaranteed)
Thanks, we'll try this on the next one!
@@DiploStrats Best of luck! Hopefully it remains in sync with the audio on your end of the recording, sometimes getting podcasty audio synced can be a right pain if something causes it to drift over time.
Best suggestion possible right here, it gave me a headache to have him blend in and out of the conversation randomly
@@OutbackCatgirlyou can sync them up at the beginning by doing something like a clap at the same time
@@Kaanfight I mean drifting over time, which happens sometimes in long recordings if recording rate isn't the same.
So when Vale drops his Campaign for North Africa video can we expect a detailed analysis of it?
I guess that gives me a few years to learn it :p
@@DiploStratsPerfect, exactly in time forr the campaign to end. 😂
i can't wait to gather up my squad in the nursing home to watch the CNA video when it releases in 50 years
Now we just need a professional breakdown of the blindfolded 1v1 csgo competition
Valefisk got me into Diplomacy ive come full circle
Not even five minutes in and I’m A: confused because I *barely* know how diplomacy works, and B: laughing at the fact that vale & the gang are apparently playing like middle schoolers
22:46 Spa into LYD was made because he forgot that his unit wasn't a fleet, and thought that it was one.
PLEASE do his hurricane video as well. Would be so fun to see the full game!
I'd thought there weren't enough of the orders visible in the video to recreate the game - but someone emailed me yesterday with a full sandbox and a whole lot of details on how they'd figured it out. So it will be possible after all!
Will be a couple weeks out though just because I'm on holiday at the moment :D
@@DiploStratsDO IT MY MATEY ARRRR
The turn around on this is amazing.
The conversation about the Italian army moving back from Tyrol in 1903 (where they both agree that you'd want to commit to it and send it to Bohemia and beyond) is so funny to me because you can hear the accumulated desperation behind it, like you might as well play scatter theory with that army because Italy is just that dreadfully short of constructive moves to make (especially in this scenario), anything is better than it languishing in Venice for no reason xD
Extremely funny hearing the sound of defeat as all strategy breaks down in the endgame
This is super cool! An important note is how absolutely hammered Germany was by the end. Would love to get into the game myself but I i doubt many of my friends would want to commit!
Having this analysis after watching chaos that was this game brings a smile to my face :)
Same, just only found out about this channel looking for more Diplomacy Games.
Finally, Vale peaked.
You know you are good when other people are making content about your content.
Good video!
This is actually great. By watching regular people play and analysing them, you are truly showcasing how impressive the Pros are. This kind of video helps people who are unfamiliar with Diplomacy or only at a casual level to get into the more complex side of the game, helps bring new blood into the fold.
I like the general theme of “Yeah, they could do this, but it would be strange/suboptimal/stupid” … “so anyway, they all did exactly that”
Ngl that part were Maivi went on a full on offensive and blitzed the balkans caugth me so off guard in the original video
Maivi came in like the goddam Mongol invasion, wrecking anything in her path
I've been watching both you guys and vale since before his teddy hurricane video and my god was this a surprise to see on my timeline. I know that vale was bound to post diplo videos and that you two had a content overlap at that point, but seeing vale's silly antics show up on a serious diplo channel is amazing to me.
The fact that you can say "the Teddy hurricane video" when talking about Diplomacy is so funny because nothing is wrong with it
My goodness, this is great lol
I stayed up till 5am watching the valefisk video... Then vale posts a community post linking this and i jump on board. Makes me want to know what pro diplomacy games look like, since I think the way this group describes themselves is a bunch of "backstabbing rats", which causes beautiful chaos
This appeared in my recommended.
Had been wondering, watching the Vale's video when Turkey got so strong. Vales' perspective very focused on France, Germany and Scandinavia. So for the first two years it just looks like Turkey is locked in a fight for the Balkans, then suddenly Russia is Dying and Austria is Dying. And Turkey is on 8.
I also feel vindicated as I thought Russia + Turkey would be a strong alliance with their map borders
IIRC in the video, during 1903 Fall, Vale(UK) is purposefully trying to keep Pedejo(Russia) barely alive so that he can keep the pressure on Lynx(Germany). Otherwise the collapse of Russia means Germany and Maivi(The Ottomans) can get centers while leaving UK in a vulnerable spot because of it's over extension.
I hope this take into consideration Lynx's drunken ramblings and plans to win for his ai overlord
Diplo analysing this game: hmmm very interesting strats
Vales commentary: THUNDER DOOOME!
29:00 tbh I think the army build makes sense if you want to convince Italy you’re not going for them, by keeping the western med free of fleets neither France or Italy can actually push the other
Definitely yes; I think A Mar can give up a bit of flexibility for some friendship points. In pro games you rarely need to convince Italy you're not going for them, because France generally needs to focus on England/Germany early on - but that's probably not something that applies at this level of play!
You guys are too kind, two full games in quick secession and a bonus discussion video
I am so happy that this exists.
I have never played Diplo.
I am very hype and ready to watch regardless.
I was both really surprised and really glad to see this pop up in my feed
Just watch Valefisk video on it and it was awesome and funny, now I get to watch pros analysis this meme of a game!
The fact that you strategically analyzed the chaotic drunk Valefisk cadre is incredible. I didn't know you guys existed, but I'll certainly stick around!
came here from the Valefisk shout out. Great commentary! Very funny to see this analysed properly after coming from the video and hilarious that the 2nd host didn't watch it and was trying to treat this as an actual game haha.
It's interesting getting an analysis of the game as someone who has never played Diplomacy. I feel like a map key might be helpful at the start, just to help explain things to newbies? Something to leave up for a couple minutes while you do your intro maybe? But overall, very interesting.
That's a good idea! I'll see if I can make something work for the next video.
Dropping a comment for the algorithm-gotta spread the Valefisk love around !!! Awesome video guys
This is genuinely cool that you analyzed such a fun yet trainwreck of Valefisk. Just watched the AI one and oh my god it was even more chaotic
Do a game where each player has a wacky secret win condition like England gets an army in Syria on any given turn, they win automatically. Everyone has a wacky obj and no one else knows what it is.
I quite like this idea! I'll see if I can workshop it.
Maybe not just objectives, but some challenges as well. Like what Valefisk did here, might end up becoming very chaotic.
This makes me want to see you do one on Valefisk's other diplomacy video.
Someone sent me the full game sandbox (I'd thought there wasn't enough shown to recreate it) so we will do this! Won't be for a couple weeks but will happen :)
Got recommended this from Valefisk’s Discord, good video
It's nice to see you guys again! I got burned out after finishing "The Longest Diplomacy Game" series, but this seems like a perfect video to restart with ^^
Vale brought me here but the analysis will keep me here. Great to see!
I would LOVE to see analysis on the other Valefisk video! Keep up the great work :)
YES! This is great, I was having a great time doing my own while he was going through it, it was such an interesting game!
Found this because im a valefisk sub, this is great and im just going to binge your content now.
I am actually not surprised but also surprised at fhe same time that a "niche" board game has a competitive game scene
I mean I know board game can have competitive scenes (I play chess, like with in person tournaments and all)
But i could probably never bring myself to play diplomacy, because i would feel terrible backstabbing anyone xD
Chapters are absolutely lovely, thank you
Good to see you both back at it
It's hilarious watching a serious analysis of that game
Was not expecting this in my recommended feed, but can't say it wasn't great to watch!
This is a Match in Heaven 🙏
about the idea with the lying, what you could is
1. Have (secretly) a single player designated to always lie (bonus: adding a player who always has to tell the truth)
This raises the idea of having one player alternate between lying and telling the truth every other phase; it's a fun one that I could maybe workshop! But I'm a bit unsure of how to make it actually work so it might just end up on the shelf of ideas for future :D
This gonna be great video to watch in small size while farming in games
after watching a 2h video on a game i never played, i'm watching a 2h pro analysis on this video. amazing
If you guys ever do Cursed Diplomacy... Id love to see a match where the map is wrap-around. IE the Russian capital's connected to the Atlantic Sea, NAF connects to NAO, etc.
Super interesting idea! Would you envision the top/bottom of the map connecting too, or just left/right?
While you're considering challenge runs, what about having a full press game where one person does the diplomacy, another does the actual moves, and neither can talk to the other?
This is a really good idea! I'll see if I can make it work.
I love how literally everyone who played this game that you are talking about has commented on this video
Loved this video - greatly enjoyed
I love this analysis and it's great that we can refer back to Valefisks video to get the thoughts of one of the players (as AI driven as they were).
In the same vein, could you analyze a public press game with your comments about the messages sent between players? I realize it might be quite complicated to do but I think it would be really interesting to learn about that more subtle side of this game.
It's something I've considered doing before, but it's really difficult to do because of the volume of press that tends to be sent in these games. We have a couple of videos that show and talk about press from my perspective when I'm playing a game (Media Wars and the Blitz commentaries) but that's only one player's perspective, so it makes it a bit easier.
Hopefully someday we'll figure out a way to do this, though!
@@DiploStrats yeah I figured it'd be a huge pain to compile and synthezise all the communication. Well if you find a way to make it happen, count on me to watch it. In the meantime I'll gladly have a look at your other series.
I am stuck in traffic for the past 3 hours and it will still take me 3 more to get home. So I'll just watch this enitre video. Why not.
love to see it!
After watching the whole game, I see this video, never heard of this channel. I sigh; as I must watch the commentary on the movie I just saw
Heyo! Great video, and definitely fascinating to watch from this perspective. I have a small bit of criticism that might help improve the quality of your videos.
It would be a lot better if everyone records their own audio instead of one person recording their microphone and a voice call. It helps alleviate those moments where one person cuts out or temporarily loses connection, and removes the compression of a voice being transmitted through that voice call. Just a small thing that I think would help make the video a little stronger.
Hey, thanks for the suggestion! We're planning to do exactly that for the next one, hopefully it improves things a lot :D
But then Ezio's trademark crackle will be gone! :b
I did not know this was what i needed, but it was
Love it, thanks!
Yeah that was a lot of fun! I'd like to give this game a go one day, preferably with friends but mine don't have the temperament for it.
I feel like they weren't playing Diplomacy as much as "trust no one"~
43:14 if you ignore Russia, Germany can use Holland to either break support from North sea or walk into north sea and threaten supply centres in Britain
That's a good point, yeah! I'm really not used to Holland being a fleet, so I think my eyes glazed over it a bit :D
England could cover North Sea with English Channel, but that still makes it a bit of a guessing game since Germany could cut Heligoland Bight instead.
holy shit i had no idea that there was such a thing as competitive diplomacy. thank fuck i went on a valefisk binge and discovered this video in my recommended.
Im about a quarter into the video. And i love it already. Would love to see both a full game and an analysis of 1 noob vs. 6 Experts fun game.
I think 1 noob vs 6 experts wouldn't work all that well - inexperienced players on very high level boards tend to either get eliminated immediately (not fun at all to watch) or fall in line doing exactly what someone else is telling them to do (also not all that fun). 1 expert vs 6 noobs might be more interesting, because they could gang up relatively easily!
@DiploStrats you're probably right. I've never played it, but if I gave you an idea I'm happy with that
The comunity around diplomacy never stops being funny to me. There really is nothing like it
I've literallly never heard of the game. This ought to be an interesting watch
Have you guys heard about/played Neptune's Pride? It's basically Diplomacy in space with a lot of similar concepts and mechanics, I used to play it way back when, this video is getting me back interested in that and diplomacy. Great analysis!
I have! My brother was very into it for a while. I tried out one public game and everyone in it quit, though - might need to go back to it and find some more reliable players at some point.
Ooh, can't wait to watch this
Crazy to see this pop up in my recommended, I had thought diplomacy commentary died out a while ago (around when triumvir412 stopped posting)
Triumvir was a huge inspiration for me - I'm glad we can help carry the torch!