I mean when Ican play Forza Horizon 5 with high settings on my GTX 1060 at around 60fps, then you know some real magic is behind the engine. Playground and Turn10 definitely know their shit when it comes to this.
Dude if the Forza games had fsr or dlss they would run at like 4k 240 haha. I mean I play 4k 120 with pretty high setting, of course I have a 3080ti but I think a 3070 could do 4k 120 easy to.
Your ability to disect graphical intricacies is amazing. Very knowledgeable. Forza games never disappoint graphically and I'm sure the next entry will be stunning. I still can't get over Horizon 5. It's beautiful.
@Mobile Phone Account Only that's why I never play online in any forza games too many people cheat by ramming you off road because they know they can't win against you
@Mobile Phone Account Only no problem man, mobile phone accunt? listen man go play mobile games!!! ORRR go play PS5 gt7 THERE they have no rendered outside the track, you can't really explore outside the track or get pushed REALLY far off like in real life... like in Forza.. enjoy man. stop complaining i love all the races in real life.. i mean Forza... and i love them ALL eliminator also :D i mean just look at Forza Horizon 5.. it's too beatiful maybe you don't have good enough PC or good enough Series X (even S bro....) .
@Mobile Phone Account Only is this ENGLISH? what the fuck did i read? if you trip over a stick in real life do you sell real life? my god these PSbots MY GOD... we are not Playstation you don't need to run one certain race one certain way to hack to get 1 car unlock (Gaystation turismo 7?). Plus WHAT? logs in the road??? shut the fuck up. give someone else your Series S you had? you didn't sell a Series X if you did.. give to me?? :D please?? i need 2 :D ... WOW logs in the road?? ohhh you mean logs way off the road? STOP bro stop this shit,, i play every day. no one RAMS like that, they do ghosting in most cases to STOP situations like that, you can report if someone has done MULTIPLE RAMS its EASY.. SECOND.. I HAVE GOTTEN RAMMED IN THAT ONE..WHAT ARE YOU TALKINGA BOUT. THERE IS BARELY LOGS.. ITS MOSTLY HIGHWAY jesus this guy... even if you hit a log,, ITS RACING, its fast to get you ass back to track they didn't RAM you to next country?? Just Race, I NEVER had a PROBLEM with ramming and LOGS? the fuck. LOGS? the fuck? Just cause this is a real game, i will tell you get good man. i hate saying that but ... get good or stop trolling.. LOGS? JUST RAM THEM, OR DON'T. JUST RACE DRIVE AROUND/BETTER... WOW. THATS THE POINT OF RACING BUMPING HAPPENS IN REAL FORMULA 1 EVEN.. THIS IS FORZA HORIZON WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE RACE IN A HORIZON "OPEN" WORLD.. if we did like Gran turismo 7.. 10 MILLION PEOPLE would PSbot and say... "HAHA! look at this i got hit one time in half an HOUR... AND you can't move from the track WOW HAHA BULLSHIT GAME" i know people LIKE YOU.. would complain THAT EXACT thing because to sell your xbox? BRO WE ARE NOT PLAYSTATION YOU CAN UNLOCK ALL 700-800+ CARS WITHOUT EVEN TRYING THAT RACE EASY... my GOD...that race actually rocks in competitive scenes.. JESUS CHRIS.. like me going to TH-cam not liking SPIDERMAN 17 on PS5 AND SAYING "BROOO my web did not attach a lot on this 1 LEVEL ON THERE... PS5 GARBAGE I THREW IN GARBAGE" bro I could have just looked up videos and lied... HAHA.. LOGS? you MEAN TREES? LOOK AT THE DAMN TREES you idiot? there isn't many LOGS to hit.. there are TREES YOU SEE THE TREES nice try to say "LOGS" mostly it's TREES you can encounter. it is fine how it's done with ghosting and the turns how they are done, only one or two turns out of 100+ turns in those big races are DANGEROUS with lotsa TREES and some logs... one turn... where ghosting helps with ramming and where your SKILL if you playing ONLINE THERE YOU GO IT'S SKILL.. if you playing online versus the forza CPU with human avatar on top.. THEN YOU JUST HIT Y, DO REDO 5 seconds... there YOU GO.. just hit Y and you are good. I can't hit Y i play like Real life.. i play where i can drive off the road YES... my GOD... next we give them 8k 60 ray trace and they will say " WE DONT HAVE 8K TV XBOX SUCKS BECUZ THEY HAVE 8K I BUY ONE AND THEN SELL"
@Mobile Phone Account Only yoo test drive unlimited if it comes back for sony and xbox imagine in uhd :D :D no i hope it does its a great exclusive for sony. im glad i made uyo laugh with my stupid ass comments :D i am 31 TDU might be better for sony than Drive club haha :D you know im just trying to spread good and some info ill try toning down a bit
Consoles will always be pound for pound Kings, the amount of performance they get from $500 consoles compared to top end & very expensive PCs is impressive
This generation of consoles is really impressive for the price, so much that I bought a Series X, my first new console since 2008! The previous gen was shit and convinced me to switch to PC
They are, but for me it is either ps5 for 800 euros or rtx 3070 for 715 euro. I would prefer ps5 if it supported 1440p monitors and cost around it's MSRP, but in Latvia it is not worth it right now.
@DaKrawnik420 for "500 bucks" you will get a gtx 1650 + r3 5gen build at best. If it is possible to get a console for it's official price - it is a great choice for just playing games with somewhat reasonable visuals. Got my ps4 pretty late (in 2017) and still enjoyed playing games that i could not dream of on my 2005 laptop or any 300 euro pc.
@DaKrawnik420 60fps is peak. Tbh anymore is kind of irrelevant. Also games on xbox tend to be locked to 60. So many games would reach so much more. Also 4k ray tracing 60fps is actually insane for 500 bucks. Try again.
Wow this analysis really highlighted the generational leap in technology between the games. With all the flashy graphics nowadays it can be hard to appreciate improvements. Digital Foundry always does a great job of highlighting and explaining advancements in graphics technology
Turn 10 is like Xbox's version of Rare back in the days of N64... technical wizards able to push the hardware & get the most out of it at all times. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they manage a stable 4k/60 with RT enabled.
wouldn't surprise me either, we have the gameplay being played at the EXACT settings... saying also they did the X at those exact settings. it would not surprise me at all, Forza h 5 surprised me already.
@@jamesb7205 what? Ray tracing as done in any game as done in Forza horizon 5 when your PC guys say "ray tracing enabled" that is what they mean like this... they don't mean every ray trace "enabled" gameplay on YT is RAY TRACE lighting 100 % EVERYWHERE in the AIR.. I mean stop being jealous and stupid.. LITERALLY.. 0% ray trace on GT7... we have what 0% ray trace on Forza MS? nope... slowed down for us, not stupid foundry, MS slowed down the gameplay footage... you saw every aspect of Ray trace on outside the car,,, on inside the engine bay it looked INSANE Sure some less MsxAA and sure not all GLOBAL ray trace... BUT the car did have RAY trace,, the tracks did have some ray trace, and did you see that Ray Trace reflection of the Car... IN THE OTHER CARS SIDE?? haha.. that was INSANE we saw clear clear car to car reflection.. AND IN THE REFLECTION we saw THE 12k skybox/tree/sky that Turn 10 loves to use (Forza horizon 5 uses 12k Skybox).
They said during presentation that Forza Motorsport have Ray Tracing mainly on Cars and Tracks. Makes it far less demanding than full RT. In fact it's enough with RT on cars and tracks anyway. It's not like you are watching Ray Traced mountains and deserts while racing.
from the statement I'd imagine this will be the settings profile XSX runs with, but the optimization was not where they wanted it to be for the reveal. and that's fair, they've hit the nail every time performance wise imo, even on base xbox one with previous titles. It looks good!
@@fordgtguy I agree with you guys both here!! its got even a bit more time for no reason :D. just kidding its all the better for other tracks, etc. I also will be REALLY disappointed if it is not near mirror image of this and running with those physics and ALL the tracks are at least similar LEVEL !!
Just to throw a spanner in the works, Posrche did develop a tungsten carbide coating for discs a couple of years back which gives them a mirror like finish.
ALL microtransactions are scams. The mobile model _assets a la carte_ price gouging has destroyed AAA high output and gaming tech advancements by carrying half of their revenues.
While I really like the visual improvements (and also hope we can enable GI when racing on PC), what really got me going in the gameplay video was the sounds and how much more realistic it sounds hearing the cars approaching and driving by.
Not ACC or Raceroom level, but definitely an improvement. Wonder how much cooperative work was done with the improved FH5 sounds even with cars not included on either title? Would make sense when they rerecording sounds for FH5, to do FM8s too at the same time. More cost efficient to do all of them together even though car list won't be exactly the same.
Excellent analysis! I hope they do manage to pull off something remarkable on series S in terms of RT to show the industry what it's possible to achieve with that box. My impression is that, given the extended cross-gen period we're in, plus COVID and other game development delays, the series S versions of games aren't quite getting the love they deserve.
the attention to detail is amazing. Nobody is going to notice the light being diffused through a cone on the side of the road, but it's there nonetheless. This game should be a serious banger when it finally gets released, so far it looks amazing compared to the last one.
@@xAKIMBOCURLYx no? Because the dynamic cube map system forza has is already a super robust fallback. Benefits of raytracing are only visible up close (self reflection etc.)
I have feeling they’re using some form of fsr because the way you describe the pixel count how only certain areas where blurred or dropped pixel. Sounded exactly what fsr is aiming for intelligently pick what parts to lower render count
When the comparison came up of FM7 to the new one....especially the new detail of the trees, etc. JAW DROPPING. Turn 10 are wizards of their engine, like The Coalition is to the Unreal Engine.
There are time of day changes in Forza Motorsport 7 and some limited dynamic weather. In many races the time of day changes slightly during a race. Many of the night races move towards sunset. These things aren't player controllable but do happen. Also race weather can vary between three slots for beginning, middle, and race end.
When they develop Forza they keep track of every frame cost associated with everything. There might be savings to be had by doing certain things as well as a psychological boost to changing things as the race progresses. Or it could be a way to demo more of the game. But for me just give me real time weather like Microsoft Flight Simulator has. And throw in real time air traffic to in the sky. 😊
I'm hoping that using higher efficiency with Sampler Feedback Streaming, Advanced shaders only loading what's necessary. The fact that Motorsport is a closed track racer I believe Turn10 can pull it off.
@@mzivtins For racing games and fighting games 60fps are really not that impressive honestly. Tekken 1 ran at 60fps back in 1994 on the original Playstation and Gran Turismo 1 had a 60fps bonus time attack event on the PS1 back in 1997. 60fps should always be expected in racing games and fighting games
@@SC0RPI0NFURY and thats the thing, you mention how its just accepted to be 60fps but Turn 10 matches the console resolution with good looking games at 60fps while other car games cant get the same resolution or fps on the box Just looking at gt7 vs FM8, Turn 10 game actually looks like a current gen game
Excellent analysis as always. Honestly I'm a lot more excited about the game now that your analysis has shed more light on what was happening during the demo. I was put off by the excessive aliasing and pop-in during the demo, but only realized now that the demo was probably pushing things in a way that you would not expect to see during the normal gameplay loop. Stuff can appear to be broken when you are flying by the track at a height in random directions. The visual optimizations probably focused on the players viewpoint at the track level, and that too going only in certain directions from any given point. Makes me wonder whether the "uncut" single camera demo worked more to Turn10s detriment here.
This game is already giving Gran Turismo 7 a run for its money. So far, it's far superior in graphic fidelity... now I'm curious about the actual gameplay. Also, hopefully they looked to the mtx disaster of GT7 and mitigate it in this game.
I think it isn't actually, gt looks more real and better while racing. It may lack better looking things up close but you never see it like that while playing
Some very in depth observations here! Didn't even notice some of the stuff you mentioned like the subsurface light scattering in the plastic cones! As always, the in house RT expert has given a very good look into the visuals as we are able to right now and thank you for the Series S call-out. I'm very hopeful as even the Devs explicitly mentioned the Series S. Overall, some very observable and meaningful changes, it seems Motorsport is finally going towards the Sim Style. Definitely hyped and excited to see more of this game in the coming months. Fingers crossed for a showcase of the game running at Series S so we know what the target resolutions and other stuff are like!
cant u grab a mirrorlike reflection, and then just apply a cheap filter that kinda blurs the reflection a bit, to make it look more diffuse? Kinda giving that diffuse reflection feel, but without the cost
If you do that it’s not ray tracing. The point of ray tracing is to accurate provide reflections based on material and roughness cutoff. If you apply a filter for every scenario, you’re pretty much going back to baked reflections. Rift apart is actually amazing reflections with good roughness cutoff. The compromise they made is checkerboard resolution for the reflections and it doesn’t do reflections in reflections I believe
@@maxminy5634 not to all surfaces, to apply diferent filters on diferent surfaces, like if you get 3-4 diferent levels, and change the reflection between them depending on the roughness. Also, that would still keep all the other benefits of using ray tracing. I personally don't see the point of ray tracing just to have "accurate reflections based on material and roughness cutoff", I see how it can deal with surfaces of any shape, show dynamic objects offscreen, without showing artifacts (almost) at all, all these benefits would still be a thing if you apply a filter
@@mathdantastav2496 The main advantage of Raytracing and pbr is that, in addition to its realism, it can handle all objects without such a "hand made" process. Your suggestion may be a good one, but the roughness adjustment is more consistent than that.
@@mathdantastav2496 if you’re applying filters you lose the benefits of ray tracing. How do you apply different levels of filters to all areas of the material. This is not a flat surface it’s a 3 model. The reflection changes at every angle.
regards still, higher frames gives the best driving feedback so im seeing turnign to performance mod, ive played Dirt Rally 2.0 and can tell understeer/oversteer in high fps is more responsive and made me correct the wheel.
You guys can change in FM7 the settings of time in race. Just go to the other tab and choose if you want rain, light rain, thunder rain, summer drizzle , drizzle etc etc...
They will definitely be using some sort of upscaling to help out such as FSR 2.0. I have a RTX 3080 and to play most games at 4K 60fps with RT on I have to use DLSS. Without DLSS most games will be under 60fps with RT. I tend to leave RT off as a few pretty reflections isn't worth the performance hit.
@@firexallst4rz277 well it's only with RT that the fps tanks. Most games without RT will run at 4K high settings way over 60fps. RT is just brutal to run on the current hardware. Next gen for sure.
Exactly. That really annoyed me, especially in Forza Motorsport 7. Of course Turn 10 should have that issue sorted because of that Xbox Series X ssd, which is alot faster than the old Xbox one X. 🤞🏻 I'm still looking forward too playing this game. Got plenty of games to play on my PS5.
Curious to see, think if there is a genre where it is possible, its racing. Also 4A already came pretty close to full 4K 60 in Metro Exodus so should be possible for Turn 10
Finally we get the first real "next gen" game of this generation. Wonder if it's using sampler feedback streaming, BCpack and mesh shaders. It makes sense that resolution lowers in those arial shots because you will never play in such an elevated view.
From Microsoft maybe but it's after 2 years, Playstation already did that multiple times since launch. Disagree if you like, but factually Demon's Souls, Ratchet & Clank and Returnal are next gen only showcases. Then we'll have TLOU before year end too.
@@webhead4414 Demon souls is a ps3 game with a new coat of paint how is that next gen? It's also only 1440p60 while Forza Motorsport is 4K60 with raytracing, multiplayer and advanced physics. Returnal is 1080p60 AA game and nothing about it is next gen. Don't be a delusional fanboy. Ratchet is a showcase for sure but it's much harder making photorealism and the raytrace mode is 40fps not 60fps. Also no online play or advanced physics which is much harder to do. Ratchet basically has ps2 physics, foliage and trees has no collision at all.
@@opaz3530 yet no other racing game have raytraced reflections on console. Also physics calculation is 48x of last gen racers and with fully dynamic time of day. Nothing comes close at this point.
@@vandammage1747 the game doesn’t come out for almost a year and based off of Microsoft’s history it prolly won’t look as good as they showed in the trailer. At the end of the day it’s just a racing the most we can expect is just visual improvements and better performance which isn’t really next gen.
I think turn 10 are so good that the game will look exactly the same as the Series X but at a lower resolution, I could be wrong but these guys along with playground games perform miracles when it comes to performance
@@MisticDW If I remember correctly, One S and One X had a thing where the game on the S just looked softer with jagged edges visible, but still looked the same until you saw them side by side so I think the same will aplly with the SS/SX
Forza Motorsport 7 has dynamic time and day to a degrees and not all all like its statet in the video. Just earlier today i drove the rookie campaign Ultima events and the last race is at LeMans and starts in dark night and at the end of the race its bright morning with sun shining. In custom race evnts you can also set 3 options for how the race conditions will change from start, mid to end of the race.
Turn 10 are wizards when it comes to pushing hardware. TBH though, I would love to see Turn 10 and The Coalition put Forza and Gears on pause for a while and tackle some new IPs for Xbox. They have a lot of talent and it's a shame to see them just churn the same games over and over. I would love to see them create some single player story driven big budget games.
I do heard that Coalition are planning to work on a new ip while utilizing the latest Unreal 5 engine they showcased from both the Matrix demo and their own tech demo. Gears 6 is coming as well, I’m thinking the studio is huge enough to split into two teams one for new ip and the other for latest Gears of War entry
Great coverage as always. I'm tired of these devs being shady just to market they basically *almost* have things running in 4k, RT, etc. since its generally non-gameplay in-game captures. MOST gamers would be happy (and therefore stock holders would also be happy) to play at 1440p if it can also do RT; even 1080p if the AA and AS is good, 60 fps, and RT. Current gen consoles cant do 4k+RT without some compromise, its really ok to compromise if the game still looks great.
i agree, they should do more for 1080 & 1440 to look & play fantastic......................i hate mombo jumbo sales speak. i have a series X & it basically runs the same "enhanced" xb1-x games the same...............i would have thought you'd get a little bonus for upgrading your xbox but NOPE. it's ALWAYs a sales pitch.............. I Remember MS saying that series X would have "software or AI" to help older games run better looking on series X but so far i have seen NOTHING better looking then my xb1-x
"You are tired of those shady dev"? Doing their best to make the best games they possibly can do?. You poor little think. Or Entitled little shit I should say :)
i hope there is an option for 120hz as that is how i would like to play it. horizon 5 sadly missed out on the series x but i dont think the cpu could manage it so they went for 60 as a maximum.
If they using DX12 Ultimate then that exposes mesh shaders, variable rate shading, RT raytracing and sampler feedback streaming. So it might well be possible but currently it's still an unknown as there is no DX12 Ultimate games available yet
@@youuuuuuuuuuutube I haven't seen any games using mesh shaders yet or sampler feedback streaming. VRS has been added to some titles with great results but we need games built around DX12 Ultimate to bring everything together and this will pay off on both console and PC considering how MS has unified their platforms It will be most interesting when used with UE5 as all we have seen from that so far is in-engine tech like the Matrix demo Mesh shading looks very special as it completely streamlines the geometry pipeline and makes it programmable, MS showed off some very promising tech demos on XSX in a GDC talk a couple of years ago, then we had the Nvidia asteroid mesh demo
At 13:31 when the cars go under the overpass, you can see the replication of reflections in both cars suggesting it’s not ray tracing? Maybe Car self reflections and other cars are raytraced, just everything else is cube mapped/SSR in game?
I agree with the "in-game" rant. They should've written "in-engine". Still, this looks impressive. The Forza series are the only racing games that get my interest. Hope this will be good.
Nah I think in-replays would of been more honest. It still happens in the game. In engine implies this could not be running in real time or it's only showing off what's possible in the engine.
I think it's really impressive that Turn 10 has managed to get stuff like Ray Traced Global Illumination and other really high end rendering techniques working on Series X, but it is a bit of a bummer that it is limited only to replays and photo mode. Regardless, I think the game still looks really good even in the actual gameplay demo and its pretty awesome they managed to get some level of RT going during gameplay. I am in agreement with Alex here though, PC should definitely be capable/should have a toggle to have Ray traced global illumination even if it is a very demanding graphics option. I'll never get to use it myself since I don't play PC but I'd love to see what the game would look like with that graphics setting :)
Ray tracing or no ray tracing this is looking bloody fantastic and it's making all the right decisions to bring the series forwards from FM7. Hopefully it's as good as FH5 is on Series S as well...
@@tommynobaka I understand they're having race weekends online besides the basic hoppers, with practice, qualifying etc... so chances are that also bleeds into the single player experience. Agree with bringing back some classic tracks. Even if it's through post launch DLC
9:09 - I disagree. - If it's in-game, it's in-game. Like in-engine. Or at least something you can run with the product (game) you've purchased. I don't think it's misleading or anything to call a replay "in-game", cause it literally is. - If some people want to ignore the possibility and insist that it means "while you play", that's their problem.
Weird how you are defending a purposefully deceitful practice aimed at overpromising what your game can do and will look like in actual gameplay. The reason they said in game is that they hope to trick most people into thinking that’s what it will look like when they play. Do you work for Microsoft or something?
They should clearly state what it's running on and if it's gameplay or not. Leaving out information and using unknown terminologies isn't helpful to customers
So, take any trailer coming from an Xbox games studio with a pinch of salt? Kinda defeats the purpose of the caption if you're conditioned to believe what you are viewing may not actually be gameplay.
Of course it is possible. It's just a matter of detuning all the other graphic effects. At a certain point then you can maintain a stable 4K 60 fps with ray tracing switched on.
Really? I have been waiting so long for someone to take advantage of the Series X Full RDNA 2… figured the only devs that would do it would be the Xbox first party devs. Can’t wait to see what games look like in a few more years.
For generations now, the team at turn 10 has produced the finest racing games available on console. I cant wait to get my hands on their next offering.
@@bigjus3751 Herman is right with his statement as its only current gen there won't be a downgrade with the bump in visuals due to shifting hardware. The old Xbox one and the One X were both running awful jaguar processors and terrible GPU's. Although clockspeeds etc etc were higher in the One X. Still the same architecture. The Series X and S are a generational leap and are capable of running at 4k 60 RT. No compromise is basically his statement.
I don't care about the small nitpicking things, this game looks dang stunning man. RT is too expensive and I don't care about that either. The game will look stunning even without it
There is some weird polygon variations in the engine bay of the first car man. Like the inlet pipe on the turbo looks like a hexagon. It's quite the contrast between hard edged circles and the crazy good material textures.
@@craigsampson3386 while I do agree with that, I think Turn 10 has the better strategy here. What use are those tiny details that you barley ever see, when you can have awesome textures and effects work instead, which you see all the time?
@@retropolis1As a car enthusiast I personally look up close with the camera whilst paused in replays to check out the cars I've acquired, so to me its important.
I don't think you'd need anything more than SMAA (better version of poor FXAA) at 4K. People usually play on their TVs and from distance it's crisp clear.
I dont need ray tracing, just give me SOLID 60fps1440p and good in race gameplay! Qualifying, Flags, Safety car, realtime-race-menu with pitstop and diff and so
I'm tired of the Forza "AI", I want to actually race AI opponents but these don't seem to exist in Forza, they are very much on-rails and don't react at all to the car specs and physics model that the player has to contend with
@@charoleawood 100% agree. I mean there's rubber banding in other games but usually if the AI is near the player it becomes tied to the game physics. The way the AI behaves sometimes in Forza is wild.
It's about time they stopped relying on msaa for everything antialiasing. FH5, as good as it looks, suffers a lot from not having a proper temporal AA method, especially at lower resolutions, I mean not everyone has a 1440p or up monitor with a decent graphics card to run it.
@@xavierwilliams2228 Or maybe he just has a big family, a lot of responsibilities and more important things to spend his money on than overpriced gaming hardware ya douche.
@@xavierwilliams2228 not everyone has a spare 300 bucks laying around to buy a nice 1440p panel. especially in the current economy. i work full time and after paying everything neccesary im left with 250 to spend on whatever i want. i do have a nice 1440p 165hz panel though.
@@xavierwilliams2228 if you added a "lol" or something I would of understood haha. But it was worded like the way the pc master race call console players poor.
@@DuckAlertBeats I disagree. I think the 40fps modes on the insomniac games are very playable. Also the RT mode is at native 4K. So having full RT with between 43 and 60fps at razer sharp 4K is pretty good to me. In addition they have a very stable 120fps mode so it's a worthwhile comparison in my opinion.
They became better once they teamed up with Playground Games. Playground Games being set up by a bunch of British racing devs with over 25yrs experience making racing games.
@@grtcara8386 Who, Turn 10 or Playground Games? They only make racing games so can't really compare them to Insomniac. The games Insomniac makes are far more complex.
@@bitsbobs8158 How so? racing games require the most amount of streamed data, given that its fast paced, not only that, a physics engine many times more detailed than any other type of game except for flight simulation. All forza motorsport games ran at 60fps on the xbox one.
But they didn’t say that. They said RT on track. They never said they couldn’t bump up the settings in replays, photo mode and Forzavista, which are all still IN-GAME, but not gameplay.
I know y'all focus on technical/graphical side of things, but for me FM8s challenges lie more in the gameplay side. I'm sure it will look gorgeous, but will it have a good AI paired with a compelling single player career/sandbox options, balanced multiplayer with driver and safety ratings paired with a sensible penalty system, and will the physics strike the right balance between simulation and accessibility for a good simcade experience with depth, and will FFB support finally be good enough for us wheel/pedal users and also strikes a good balance between controller/wheel. Forza has an opportunity to truly compete with GT7, but they need to get the gameplay right, or all the beautiful graphics in the world won't matter.
They've never had a problem with gameplay in previous games, so I'm highly optimistic on that front. Though it is still a concern for me too. Time will tell
I think that to achieve 4k/60+RT on the SeriesX they are going for VRS + FSR2.0 Biggest question here is the SeriesS, because as Alex said everyone else is dropping Ray Tracing and even resolution so that the new games can run on the weaker console.
Not really a big question. It can't do rt. We all know this. Stop building some narrative as if the XSS is even capable of handling current games at a res above 1080p
@@thedude8128 Lol fanboys making narratives again,lots games run 1440p and evil dead even runs 4k.Its funny ps5 users play games at 1080p on 4k screen and still saying ss on 1080p screen looks bad.
Resident Evil 2, 3, 7 with RT on Xbox Series S with resolution above 1080 says hi! Also forza horizon 5 And don't forget about the matrix demo, the last metro among others
@@itsmorbtime2536 The weak series s is not going to be able to play next gen only games higher than 1080p at 60s fps unless they butcher the game's visuals.
The actual gameplay graphics while racing looked mediocre. They sacrificed graphical fidelity for low quality Ray tracing so they can say they have something over on Gran Turismo lol
I am an RT believer, but game like this is the one giant exception. It's exactly the kind of game where you will absolutely not going to notice the RT effect while in anything outside of a cut scene.
I wish more games would use RT GI instead of reflections on consoles. On PC you can get both with a powerful enough gpu. Certainly, rt gi would be more impactful for racing games (for any game really). There's only been one game on console to use it, metro exodus, and it looks amazing. We need more of it. I'm hoping a mid gen console upgrade comes out so I can get better RT on console.
I still don't care much about ray tracing at the moment. For me, it simply doesn't offer the added value for the cost. Especially with the current hardware prices...
It's very much depends on the game, some games it can really transform the way it looks, such as Metro exodus, Cyberpunk 2077, Quake 2 RTX, Dying Light 2. I target 1440p 60fps and if I have enough headroom for ray tracing I will take it over increasing the resolution, if not then it stays off. I'm using a 3070 and the majority of those games I can easily play with ray tracing.
You haven't played a game with good RT yet then. Also remember that there are many kinds of RT, not just reflections. Metro Exodus with RT lighting completely transforms the game
@@GeneralKenobi69420 well, despite that he still can wish for more of a simulation game. I hope it too cause no, on xbox there is no up to date realistic racer. Acc is bugged and broken,
FFS stop chasing 4K! 1440p at 60fps with all the bells and whistles on seems perfectly achievable this gen. The mass market punter who is stupid enough to think that 4K means everything will likely be too stupid to tell the difference between 4k and 1440p anyway leaving the rest of us to have a lovely smooth, non-hitchy experience.
It obviously won't be 4k60 with this quality ray tracing on the series x. Simple as. there's a reason this demo was running on PC no matter what MS and turn 10 say.
@@mrglass7133 well I think the OP is correct , I'd be delighted if my 3080 , a graphics card vastly superior to a series x , managed 4k 60 fps with raytracing on .. not sure how series x can manage it
@@craigevans3813 We can speculate all we want... Until the product is out we won't know 100% for sure.... Whatever the case.... Any Tech would help PCS achieve greater things ....
@@mrglass7133 4k alone is taxing on a system. Then running at 60 fps with ray tracing. There’s no need to wait. You don’t need to speculate. If that was the case we would have seen series X gameplay doing that not PC
It's obvious that some form of FSR is being implemented, given that DLSS is exclusive to NVidia GPUs. As to how aggressive/conservative its use is, we'll have to wait until the actual game or more demos are released so that they can be analysed more thoroughly.
As a 1st party dev no one should be surprised if they manage to get the most out of both the X and S. They've always been wizards at it
Yea, these guys forget that when other racing games were running bad on xbox one vcr, Forza was the only racer doing 1080p 60.
@@cadizking8161 Exactly, Forza Motorsport were running at higher res, higher framerate and better graphics.
Turn10 know their shit
I mean when Ican play Forza Horizon 5 with high settings on my GTX 1060 at around 60fps, then you know some real magic is behind the engine. Playground and Turn10 definitely know their shit when it comes to this.
Dude if the Forza games had fsr or dlss they would run at like 4k 240 haha. I mean I play 4k 120 with pretty high setting, of course I have a 3080ti but I think a 3070 could do 4k 120 easy to.
Your ability to disect graphical intricacies is amazing. Very knowledgeable. Forza games never disappoint graphically and I'm sure the next entry will be stunning. I still can't get over Horizon 5. It's beautiful.
@Mobile Phone Account Only that's why I never play online in any forza games too many people cheat by ramming you off road because they know they can't win against you
Actually it's pretty broken. The texture streaming is quite shocking! Dumped Xbox because of this cross gen shit show.
@Mobile Phone Account Only no problem man, mobile phone accunt? listen man go play mobile games!!! ORRR go play PS5 gt7 THERE they have no rendered outside the track, you can't really explore outside the track or get pushed REALLY far off like in real life... like in Forza.. enjoy man. stop complaining i love all the races in real life.. i mean Forza... and i love them ALL eliminator also :D i mean just look at Forza Horizon 5.. it's too beatiful maybe you don't have good enough PC or good enough Series X (even S bro....) .
@Mobile Phone Account Only is this ENGLISH? what the fuck did i read? if you trip over a stick in real life do you sell real life? my god these PSbots MY GOD... we are not Playstation you don't need to run one certain race one certain way to hack to get 1 car unlock (Gaystation turismo 7?). Plus WHAT? logs in the road??? shut the fuck up. give someone else your Series S you had? you didn't sell a Series X if you did.. give to me?? :D please?? i need 2 :D ... WOW logs in the road?? ohhh you mean logs way off the road? STOP bro stop this shit,, i play every day. no one RAMS like that, they do ghosting in most cases to STOP situations like that, you can report if someone has done MULTIPLE RAMS its EASY.. SECOND.. I HAVE GOTTEN RAMMED IN THAT ONE..WHAT ARE YOU TALKINGA BOUT. THERE IS BARELY LOGS.. ITS MOSTLY HIGHWAY jesus this guy... even if you hit a log,, ITS RACING, its fast to get you ass back to track they didn't RAM you to next country?? Just Race, I NEVER had a PROBLEM with ramming and LOGS? the fuck. LOGS? the fuck? Just cause this is a real game, i will tell you get good man. i hate saying that but ... get good or stop trolling.. LOGS? JUST RAM THEM, OR DON'T. JUST RACE DRIVE AROUND/BETTER... WOW. THATS THE POINT OF RACING BUMPING HAPPENS IN REAL FORMULA 1 EVEN.. THIS IS FORZA HORIZON WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE RACE IN A HORIZON "OPEN" WORLD.. if we did like Gran turismo 7.. 10 MILLION PEOPLE would PSbot and say... "HAHA! look at this i got hit one time in half an HOUR... AND you can't move from the track WOW HAHA BULLSHIT GAME" i know people LIKE YOU.. would complain THAT EXACT thing because to sell your xbox? BRO WE ARE NOT PLAYSTATION YOU CAN UNLOCK ALL 700-800+ CARS WITHOUT EVEN TRYING THAT RACE EASY... my GOD...that race actually rocks in competitive scenes.. JESUS CHRIS.. like me going to TH-cam not liking SPIDERMAN 17 on PS5 AND SAYING "BROOO my web did not attach a lot on this 1 LEVEL ON THERE... PS5 GARBAGE I THREW IN GARBAGE" bro I could have just looked up videos and lied... HAHA.. LOGS? you MEAN TREES? LOOK AT THE DAMN TREES you idiot? there isn't many LOGS to hit.. there are TREES YOU SEE THE TREES nice try to say "LOGS" mostly it's TREES you can encounter. it is fine how it's done with ghosting and the turns how they are done, only one or two turns out of 100+ turns in those big races are DANGEROUS with lotsa TREES and some logs... one turn... where ghosting helps with ramming and where your SKILL if you playing ONLINE THERE YOU GO IT'S SKILL.. if you playing online versus the forza CPU with human avatar on top.. THEN YOU JUST HIT Y, DO REDO 5 seconds... there YOU GO.. just hit Y and you are good. I can't hit Y i play like Real life.. i play where i can drive off the road YES... my GOD... next we give them 8k 60 ray trace and they will say " WE DONT HAVE 8K TV XBOX SUCKS BECUZ THEY HAVE 8K I BUY ONE AND THEN SELL"
@Mobile Phone Account Only yoo test drive unlimited if it comes back for sony and xbox imagine in uhd :D :D no i hope it does its a great exclusive for sony. im glad i made uyo laugh with my stupid ass comments :D i am 31 TDU might be better for sony than Drive club haha :D you know im just trying to spread good and some info ill try toning down a bit
Consoles will always be pound for pound Kings, the amount of performance they get from $500 consoles compared to top end & very expensive PCs is impressive
This generation of consoles is really impressive for the price, so much that I bought a Series X, my first new console since 2008! The previous gen was shit and convinced me to switch to PC
They are, but for me it is either ps5 for 800 euros or rtx 3070 for 715 euro. I would prefer ps5 if it supported 1440p monitors and cost around it's MSRP, but in Latvia it is not worth it right now.
@DaKrawnik420 for "500 bucks" you will get a gtx 1650 + r3 5gen build at best. If it is possible to get a console for it's official price - it is a great choice for just playing games with somewhat reasonable visuals. Got my ps4 pretty late (in 2017) and still enjoyed playing games that i could not dream of on my 2005 laptop or any 300 euro pc.
@DaKrawnik420 60fps is peak. Tbh anymore is kind of irrelevant. Also games on xbox tend to be locked to 60. So many games would reach so much more. Also 4k ray tracing 60fps is actually insane for 500 bucks. Try again.
Wow this analysis really highlighted the generational leap in technology between the games. With all the flashy graphics nowadays it can be hard to appreciate improvements. Digital Foundry always does a great job of highlighting and explaining advancements in graphics technology
Flashy graphics of this gen?! It’s a poor next gen imho.
Turn 10 is like Xbox's version of Rare back in the days of N64... technical wizards able to push the hardware & get the most out of it at all times.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if they manage a stable 4k/60 with RT enabled.
It's also just reflections isn't it? So not nearly as hard as lighting
wouldn't surprise me either, we have the gameplay being played at the EXACT settings... saying also they did the X at those exact settings. it would not surprise me at all, Forza h 5 surprised me already.
@@jamesb7205 what? Ray tracing as done in any game as done in Forza horizon 5 when your PC guys say "ray tracing enabled" that is what they mean like this... they don't mean every ray trace "enabled" gameplay on YT is RAY TRACE lighting 100 % EVERYWHERE in the AIR.. I mean stop being jealous and stupid.. LITERALLY.. 0% ray trace on GT7... we have what 0% ray trace on Forza MS? nope... slowed down for us, not stupid foundry, MS slowed down the gameplay footage... you saw every aspect of Ray trace on outside the car,,, on inside the engine bay it looked INSANE Sure some less MsxAA and sure not all GLOBAL ray trace... BUT the car did have RAY trace,, the tracks did have some ray trace, and did you see that Ray Trace reflection of the Car... IN THE OTHER CARS SIDE?? haha.. that was INSANE we saw clear clear car to car reflection.. AND IN THE REFLECTION we saw THE 12k skybox/tree/sky that Turn 10 loves to use (Forza horizon 5 uses 12k Skybox).
@@slavche stop crying, pc is superior than your consoles, don't even get me started on the prices, you can pirate stuff on pc so just shut up
They said during presentation that Forza Motorsport have Ray Tracing mainly on Cars and Tracks. Makes it far less demanding than full RT. In fact it's enough with RT on cars and tracks anyway. It's not like you are watching Ray Traced mountains and deserts while racing.
from the statement I'd imagine this will be the settings profile XSX runs with, but the optimization was not where they wanted it to be for the reveal. and that's fair, they've hit the nail every time performance wise imo, even on base xbox one with previous titles. It looks good!
They even have a year to keep working on it; I expect it to look as good or better on launch.
@@fordgtguy I agree with you guys both here!! its got even a bit more time for no reason :D. just kidding its all the better for other tracks, etc. I also will be REALLY disappointed if it is not near mirror image of this and running with those physics and ALL the tracks are at least similar LEVEL !!
Just to throw a spanner in the works, Posrche did develop a tungsten carbide coating for discs a couple of years back which gives them a mirror like finish.
Yup! Honestly I love the shiny breaks.
I work on cars and I must say that those engine details are really impressive.
looks like shit
You guys are next level when it comes to those analyses... Kudos!
That Kudos reminds me of project gothem racing back in the day.
@@SirDragonClaw reminds me of myspace lol
@@SirDragonClaw Metropolis Street Racer FTW!
What is your problem ?
ALL microtransactions are scams. The mobile model _assets a la carte_ price gouging has destroyed AAA high output and gaming tech advancements by carrying half of their revenues.
It's only when you look back at the FM7 videos that you realise just how far Horizon 5 pushed the engine. RT reflections are the icing on the cake.
While I really like the visual improvements (and also hope we can enable GI when racing on PC), what really got me going in the gameplay video was the sounds and how much more realistic it sounds hearing the cars approaching and driving by.
Not ACC or Raceroom level, but definitely an improvement. Wonder how much cooperative work was done with the improved FH5 sounds even with cars not included on either title? Would make sense when they rerecording sounds for FH5, to do FM8s too at the same time. More cost efficient to do all of them together even though car list won't be exactly the same.
Excellent analysis! I hope they do manage to pull off something remarkable on series S in terms of RT to show the industry what it's possible to achieve with that box. My impression is that, given the extended cross-gen period we're in, plus COVID and other game development delays, the series S versions of games aren't quite getting the love they deserve.
the attention to detail is amazing. Nobody is going to notice the light being diffused through a cone on the side of the road, but it's there nonetheless. This game should be a serious banger when it finally gets released, so far it looks amazing compared to the last one.
Yeah exactly I don't care about RT marketing I just want it to look incredible
Raytracing on cars near the camera, but not cars far away is a simple optimization to do
But then it's not raytracing. You can have less depth to the RT on cars further away but if you turn them off you're back to baked reflections
@@yanceyboyz yes? My point is you can't even see reflections on far away cars. Near cars are more important to trace
@@wile123456 reduce the resolution of ray tracing maybe. But turning it off would look silly as lighting pops on and off cars as they move away
@@xAKIMBOCURLYx no? Because the dynamic cube map system forza has is already a super robust fallback. Benefits of raytracing are only visible up close (self reflection etc.)
Hoping they have all settings unlocked on PC, the quality you'd be able to get out of higher end and next gen hardware could be incredible
The trailer already looks lika a piece of crap.
No boy pc is trash unlocked
@@rayyanamir8560 gt7 wishes it looked this good
@@Dill2G Whataboutism
@@Dill2G even gt sport looks better than your forza 8
I'm more interested in knowing how Series S performance is going to be? 1080p 60fps with RT? Or it is it more like 720p60fpsRT?
8k/120
720p is too low, not a chance.
I'm thinking 1080p 60fps with RT. If they were making any major compromises they wouldn't have explicitly mentioned the Series S at the showcase
What does resolution mean anyway if they are using variable rate shading and temporal reconstruction.
@@dhivydhimanth1960 Exactly my point they where very explicit that RT would be present in both the Series X|S
I have feeling they’re using some form of fsr because the way you describe the pixel count how only certain areas where blurred or dropped pixel. Sounded exactly what fsr is aiming for intelligently pick what parts to lower render count
I agree
When the comparison came up of FM7 to the new one....especially the new detail of the trees, etc. JAW DROPPING. Turn 10 are wizards of their engine, like The Coalition is to the Unreal Engine.
Forzza 5 Update (offtopic) adding TAA finally, great to see in the notes.
horizon is getting TAA? thats awesome news
Wow I gave up hope that they'll change anything...
That might also mean that they'll add DLSS/FSR 2.0 down the line
@@timotheus34 you mean FSR?
I think that's already an option in the graphical settings
@@mrwalker6026 yeah thanks for pointing that out
This is some next level analysis, great job alex!
Given the time Turn 10 have had, the money they have and the size of their team - this should be amazing. Can’t wait to play on my PC
scam
@@John_Klambo yeah cheers. I wonder how many people fall for this crap
@@tonygeddes9558 definitely some, unfortunately
Really like your commentary Alex particularly your humour and expertise, it’s great to get that individual DF flavour in these analysis
There are time of day changes in Forza Motorsport 7 and some limited dynamic weather. In many races the time of day changes slightly during a race. Many of the night races move towards sunset. These things aren't player controllable but do happen. Also race weather can vary between three slots for beginning, middle, and race end.
"Dynamic" weather in FM7 is anything but though I understand what you mean.
Take my 👍
When they develop Forza they keep track of every frame cost associated with everything. There might be savings to be had by doing certain things as well as a psychological boost to changing things as the race progresses. Or it could be a way to demo more of the game. But for me just give me real time weather like Microsoft Flight Simulator has. And throw in real time air traffic to in the sky. 😊
@@VariantAEC agreed. I meant dynamic in the sense it was not static, but yes it's not truly fully dynamic.
fm7 was quite inconsistent regarding features on tracks :(
This might have to be the first motorsport I have to check out. Looks absolutely beautiful
I'm hoping that using higher efficiency with Sampler Feedback Streaming, Advanced shaders only loading what's necessary. The fact that Motorsport is a closed track racer I believe Turn10 can pull it off.
Prob not
@@helloguy8934 Turn 10 are the tech incubator studio for Xbox, more likely they do, than not.
@@helloguy8934 Every forza motorsport game has run at 60fps on the xbox one. These are literally some of the best guys in the business.
@@mzivtins For racing games and fighting games 60fps are really not that impressive honestly. Tekken 1 ran at 60fps back in 1994 on the original Playstation and Gran Turismo 1 had a 60fps bonus time attack event on the PS1 back in 1997. 60fps should always be expected in racing games and fighting games
@@SC0RPI0NFURY and thats the thing, you mention how its just accepted to be 60fps but Turn 10 matches the console resolution with good looking games at 60fps
while other car games cant get the same resolution or fps on the box
Just looking at gt7 vs FM8, Turn 10 game actually looks like a current gen game
Excellent analysis as always. Honestly I'm a lot more excited about the game now that your analysis has shed more light on what was happening during the demo. I was put off by the excessive aliasing and pop-in during the demo, but only realized now that the demo was probably pushing things in a way that you would not expect to see during the normal gameplay loop. Stuff can appear to be broken when you are flying by the track at a height in random directions. The visual optimizations probably focused on the players viewpoint at the track level, and that too going only in certain directions from any given point.
Makes me wonder whether the "uncut" single camera demo worked more to Turn10s detriment here.
I'd imagine that's a big reason they started the demo on series x and went "yeaah, you know what... let's just do this on PC"
@@NetDive a Dev kit PC with same specs and settings as an Xbox, so it will likely look even better at launch
@@acidflare8345 verrryyy interesting
@@NetDive Final Fantasy 16 reveal was shown on PC too because they make the games on PC
Can only imagine how good a future FORZA will look like on XBOX Series Z
Imagine how this could look on any next gen console after the series platforms? 😧
@@MisterReen 120 fps 4k Fully ray traced...The future looks good...
This game is already giving Gran Turismo 7 a run for its money. So far, it's far superior in graphic fidelity... now I'm curious about the actual gameplay. Also, hopefully they looked to the mtx disaster of GT7 and mitigate it in this game.
I think it isn't actually, gt looks more real and better while racing. It may lack better looking things up close but you never see it like that while playing
I hear you can play Forza offline.... Any news is GT7 can do that yet?
@@inkdot22 you actually cant play forza.
Some very in depth observations here! Didn't even notice some of the stuff you mentioned like the subsurface light scattering in the plastic cones!
As always, the in house RT expert has given a very good look into the visuals as we are able to right now and thank you for the Series S call-out. I'm very hopeful as even the Devs explicitly mentioned the Series S.
Overall, some very observable and meaningful changes, it seems Motorsport is finally going towards the Sim Style. Definitely hyped and excited to see more of this game in the coming months. Fingers crossed for a showcase of the game running at Series S so we know what the target resolutions and other stuff are like!
Subsurface on the cones was the first thin I noticed live, were you sleeping? lol
The "graphics aren't important, 24fps is cinematic" crowds that MS conned with gen 8 xbone cant be fooled anymore.
I don’t notice any of this shit 🤣
How do you draw the conclusion that its going more sim style?
Series S version will definitely be 1080p
As always this was an excellent tech dive, Alex!
This is the content I come for. I learn so much every time. Good job Alex
cant u grab a mirrorlike reflection, and then just apply a cheap filter that kinda blurs the reflection a bit, to make it look more diffuse?
Kinda giving that diffuse reflection feel, but without the cost
This is already done on PS5 we see in in games like Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart at 60FPS with RT on which generally runs at 1440p.
If you do that it’s not ray tracing. The point of ray tracing is to accurate provide reflections based on material and roughness cutoff. If you apply a filter for every scenario, you’re pretty much going back to baked reflections. Rift apart is actually amazing reflections with good roughness cutoff. The compromise they made is checkerboard resolution for the reflections and it doesn’t do reflections in reflections I believe
@@maxminy5634 not to all surfaces, to apply diferent filters on diferent surfaces, like if you get 3-4 diferent levels, and change the reflection between them depending on the roughness.
Also, that would still keep all the other benefits of using ray tracing. I personally don't see the point of ray tracing just to have "accurate reflections based on material and roughness cutoff", I see how it can deal with surfaces of any shape, show dynamic objects offscreen, without showing artifacts (almost) at all, all these benefits would still be a thing if you apply a filter
@@mathdantastav2496 The main advantage of Raytracing and pbr is that, in addition to its realism, it can handle all objects without such a "hand made" process. Your suggestion may be a good one, but the roughness adjustment is more consistent than that.
@@mathdantastav2496 if you’re applying filters you lose the benefits of ray tracing. How do you apply different levels of filters to all areas of the material. This is not a flat surface it’s a 3 model. The reflection changes at every angle.
regards still, higher frames gives the best driving feedback so im seeing turnign to performance mod, ive played Dirt Rally 2.0 and can tell understeer/oversteer in high fps is more responsive and made me correct the wheel.
Bruh, I can't play under 60 fps on dirt rally, every frame matters specifically asphalt and hitting those apexes.
I hope this game has the normal rt 60fps mode then an option to disable it and go for 120fps.
@@JudeTheTH-camPoopersubscribe q
@@JudeTheTH-camPoopersubscribe normal rt with maybe 30 fps... series x is too weak for 4k +raytracing on hight settings plus 60 fps.
@@alphaomega887654321 Forza Motosport hasn't gone 30 FPS since 2007. It will be 60 fps.
You guys can change in FM7 the settings of time in race. Just go to the other tab and choose if you want rain, light rain, thunder rain, summer drizzle , drizzle etc etc...
They will definitely be using some sort of upscaling to help out such as FSR 2.0. I have a RTX 3080 and to play most games at 4K 60fps with RT on I have to use DLSS. Without DLSS most games will be under 60fps with RT. I tend to leave RT off as a few pretty reflections isn't worth the performance hit.
very true
Imagine getting a 3080 and not getting true 4k 60fps with NO UPSCALING. Also imagine using DLSS. Ugh
@@firexallst4rz277 hopefully the rtx 4000 has massively improved ray tracing performance. only time will tell.
@@firexallst4rz277 well it's only with RT that the fps tanks. Most games without RT will run at 4K high settings way over 60fps. RT is just brutal to run on the current hardware. Next gen for sure.
Looks incredible, I can't wait to play it
Eh lighting looks horrible
Lighting and reflections look amazing
Looks bad, like a ps3 game
@@rayyanamir8560 stop trolling, you look silly
I'll be happy if the menus don't lag this time.. anything else is gravy.
Exactly. That really annoyed me, especially in Forza Motorsport 7. Of course Turn 10 should have that issue sorted because of that Xbox Series X ssd, which is alot faster than the old Xbox one X. 🤞🏻 I'm still looking forward too playing this game. Got plenty of games to play on my PS5.
Curious to see, think if there is a genre where it is possible, its racing. Also 4A already came pretty close to full 4K 60 in Metro Exodus so should be possible for Turn 10
Yea especially with the 12 teraflops and tools waiting to be unlocked 😉
"4k". metro Exodus dropped to 1080p60 most of the time
It had drops to 1080p and it had more than RT reflections
@@R4K1B- i said pretty close and no thats the lowest bound but it averages in the 1512-1728 p range
1512p is almost just half of 4k so its not close still
Incredible analysis once again
Finally we get the first real "next gen" game of this generation. Wonder if it's using sampler feedback streaming, BCpack and mesh shaders.
It makes sense that resolution lowers in those arial shots because you will never play in such an elevated view.
From Microsoft maybe but it's after 2 years, Playstation already did that multiple times since launch. Disagree if you like, but factually Demon's Souls, Ratchet & Clank and Returnal are next gen only showcases. Then we'll have TLOU before year end too.
lol it’s just another racing game graphics alone don’t make a game next gen it has to have the features and next gen gameplay as well
@@webhead4414 Demon souls is a ps3 game with a new coat of paint how is that next gen? It's also only 1440p60 while Forza Motorsport is 4K60 with raytracing, multiplayer and advanced physics.
Returnal is 1080p60 AA game and nothing about it is next gen. Don't be a delusional fanboy.
Ratchet is a showcase for sure but it's much harder making photorealism and the raytrace mode is 40fps not 60fps. Also no online play or advanced physics which is much harder to do. Ratchet basically has ps2 physics, foliage and trees has no collision at all.
@@opaz3530 yet no other racing game have raytraced reflections on console. Also physics calculation is 48x of last gen racers and with fully dynamic time of day.
Nothing comes close at this point.
@@vandammage1747 the game doesn’t come out for almost a year and based off of Microsoft’s history it prolly won’t look as good as they showed in the trailer. At the end of the day it’s just a racing the most we can expect is just visual improvements and better performance which isn’t really next gen.
I like it when you guys have fun in the videos it makes it more enjoyable for sure!
Such a slick video. Great job Alex
This game looks AMAZING! So hyped for this game. Also interested to see how it runs on Series S
I think turn 10 are so good that the game will look exactly the same as the Series X but at a lower resolution, I could be wrong but these guys along with playground games perform miracles when it comes to performance
@@MisticDW You're right. Keep in mind Playground uses ForzaTech engine which is made by turn10.
@@MisticDW If I remember correctly, One S and One X had a thing where the game on the S just looked softer with jagged edges visible, but still looked the same until you saw them side by side so I think the same will aplly with the SS/SX
@7:00
Brake Rotors aren't necessarily brushed metal. The brake pads can polish them through use and they often can give mirror-like reflections.
True😊
Forza Motorsport 7 has dynamic time and day to a degrees and not all all like its statet in the video. Just earlier today i drove the rookie campaign Ultima events and the last race is at LeMans and starts in dark night and at the end of the race its bright morning with sun shining. In custom race evnts you can also set 3 options for how the race conditions will change from start, mid to end of the race.
only on specific tracks.....
Looks impressive!
Yes for a high end pc
@@stoffe2055 In Forza motorsport 7
One X was running 4k-60 mid-high!
@@oror3751 still high end pc
Amazing upgrade. Excited to play it later.
Turn 10 are wizards when it comes to pushing hardware. TBH though, I would love to see Turn 10 and The Coalition put Forza and Gears on pause for a while and tackle some new IPs for Xbox. They have a lot of talent and it's a shame to see them just churn the same games over and over. I would love to see them create some single player story driven big budget games.
I do heard that Coalition are planning to work on a new ip while utilizing the latest Unreal 5 engine they showcased from both the Matrix demo and their own tech demo. Gears 6 is coming as well, I’m thinking the studio is huge enough to split into two teams one for new ip and the other for latest Gears of War entry
Playground Games is working on Fable. It's not a new IP, but definitely has been dormant and is prime for a return.
Great coverage as always. I'm tired of these devs being shady just to market they basically *almost* have things running in 4k, RT, etc. since its generally non-gameplay in-game captures. MOST gamers would be happy (and therefore stock holders would also be happy) to play at 1440p if it can also do RT; even 1080p if the AA and AS is good, 60 fps, and RT. Current gen consoles cant do 4k+RT without some compromise, its really ok to compromise if the game still looks great.
i agree, they should do more for 1080 & 1440 to look & play fantastic......................i hate mombo jumbo sales speak.
i have a series X & it basically runs the same "enhanced" xb1-x games the same...............i would have thought you'd get a little bonus for upgrading your xbox but NOPE.
it's ALWAYs a sales pitch..............
I Remember MS saying that series X would have "software or AI" to help older games run better looking on series X but so far i have seen NOTHING better looking then my xb1-x
"You are tired of those shady dev"? Doing their best to make the best games they possibly can do?.
You poor little think. Or Entitled little shit I should say :)
excellent analysis, like always!
I really don't think ray tracing is important in a racing game. Higher framerates would be preferable in my opinion
Or you could just use a PC and have both, lol
@@GeneralKenobi69420 or you are fine with 60 fps while 4k, which is pretty dope
@@Gelangweilter you know what's even more dope? Playing pong at 16k 420fps. Now that's pretty dope.
That’s up to your TV
i hope there is an option for 120hz as that is how i would like to play it. horizon 5 sadly missed out on the series x but i dont think the cpu could manage it so they went for 60 as a maximum.
I wouldn't even care if it was 1440p, 60fps, as long as we get really good shaders, textures, lighting and anti-aliasing.
True, also most people don’t have 4K monitors so they should have a high fps option
If they using DX12 Ultimate then that exposes mesh shaders, variable rate shading, RT raytracing and sampler feedback streaming.
So it might well be possible but currently it's still an unknown as there is no DX12 Ultimate games available yet
They can already use all the effects that they want as they have low level API access to the hardware. No need for DX12 Ultimate.
@@youuuuuuuuuuutube I haven't seen any games using mesh shaders yet or sampler feedback streaming. VRS has been added to some titles with great results but we need games built around DX12 Ultimate to bring everything together and this will pay off on both console and PC considering how MS has unified their platforms
It will be most interesting when used with UE5 as all we have seen from that so far is in-engine tech like the Matrix demo
Mesh shading looks very special as it completely streamlines the geometry pipeline and makes it programmable, MS showed off some very promising tech demos on XSX in a GDC talk a couple of years ago, then we had the Nvidia asteroid mesh demo
At 13:31 when the cars go under the overpass, you can see the replication of reflections in both cars suggesting it’s not ray tracing?
Maybe Car self reflections and other cars are raytraced, just everything else is cube mapped/SSR in game?
I agree with the "in-game" rant. They should've written "in-engine". Still, this looks impressive. The Forza series are the only racing games that get my interest. Hope this will be good.
Nah I think in-replays would of been more honest. It still happens in the game. In engine implies this could not be running in real time or it's only showing off what's possible in the engine.
it is technically in game, but a part of the game where the player has no control, they should of been more honest about this.
I think it's really impressive that Turn 10 has managed to get stuff like Ray Traced Global Illumination and other really high end rendering techniques working on Series X, but it is a bit of a bummer that it is limited only to replays and photo mode. Regardless, I think the game still looks really good even in the actual gameplay demo and its pretty awesome they managed to get some level of RT going during gameplay. I am in agreement with Alex here though, PC should definitely be capable/should have a toggle to have Ray traced global illumination even if it is a very demanding graphics option. I'll never get to use it myself since I don't play PC but I'd love to see what the game would look like with that graphics setting :)
Sick graphics!
Ray tracing or no ray tracing this is looking bloody fantastic and it's making all the right decisions to bring the series forwards from FM7.
Hopefully it's as good as FH5 is on Series S as well...
And hopefully there is no crippling anti consumer always online drm.
Tbh, it needs legacy tracks like Fujimi Kaido, Amalfi Coast etc. And a Race day like FM3/4
@@tommynobaka I understand they're having race weekends online besides the basic hoppers, with practice, qualifying etc... so chances are that also bleeds into the single player experience.
Agree with bringing back some classic tracks. Even if it's through post launch DLC
9:09 - I disagree. - If it's in-game, it's in-game. Like in-engine. Or at least something you can run with the product (game) you've purchased.
I don't think it's misleading or anything to call a replay "in-game", cause it literally is. - If some people want to ignore the possibility and insist that it means "while you play", that's their problem.
Weird how you are defending a purposefully deceitful practice aimed at overpromising what your game can do and will look like in actual gameplay. The reason they said in game is that they hope to trick most people into thinking that’s what it will look like when they play. Do you work for Microsoft or something?
They should clearly state what it's running on and if it's gameplay or not. Leaving out information and using unknown terminologies isn't helpful to customers
So, take any trailer coming from an Xbox games studio with a pinch of salt? Kinda defeats the purpose of the caption if you're conditioned to believe what you are viewing may not actually be gameplay.
Extraordinary work digitalfoundry editors are so fun to learn from.
Of course it is possible. It's just a matter of detuning all the other graphic effects. At a certain point then you can maintain a stable 4K 60 fps with ray tracing switched on.
It’s better to have RT turned off then
Forza Motorsport is one of the first Series X games that uses FSR 2.0
Really? I have been waiting so long for someone to take advantage of the Series X Full RDNA 2… figured the only devs that would do it would be the Xbox first party devs. Can’t wait to see what games look like in a few more years.
@@rickyfelan few years? hahahaha oh you poor console user
DF and Alex once again proving they are a cut above the rest when it comes to technical analysis.
Or a pc fanboy just taking a shot 🤷♂️
Loved the "Roadkill Jam" soundtrack at the beginning! Great video, guys!
Finally the first next gen game of the generation ! Well done Xbox
You mean on xbox?
@@DV-ou1yu yes on Xbox the first non cross gen and with next gen features
@@xboxmaniac7443 Ah yes, while technically the Medium may actually be the first next gen only game on xbox. I'll shut up now lol
@@DV-ou1yu yes you are correct but I believe that FM will feature most of the next gen optimisations !
When you said that Forza Motorsport 7 was 5 years old, I couldn't believe you... can't believe it's been that long.
I mean it's free on gamepass, RT or not is treat for gamers!
To be fair, it is not "free" as you pay $15 a month for Game Pass, or at least I did.
For generations now, the team at turn 10 has produced the finest racing games available on console. I cant wait to get my hands on their next offering.
Some of the trackside environmental detail in FM7 is actually a regression from FM6, I think to get it running at 4K on the One X
This game is current gen only.
@@hermanparmo2214 the OP doesn't mention this game, they are taking about last gen Forza motorsport 6 and 7.
@@bigjus3751
Herman is right with his statement as its only current gen there won't be a downgrade with the bump in visuals due to shifting hardware. The old Xbox one and the One X were both running awful jaguar processors and terrible GPU's. Although clockspeeds etc etc were higher in the One X. Still the same architecture.
The Series X and S are a generational leap and are capable of running at 4k 60 RT. No compromise is basically his statement.
I don't care about the small nitpicking things, this game looks dang stunning man. RT is too expensive and I don't care about that either. The game will look stunning even without it
True
It's pretty nuts how far racing games have come since playing pole position on my Atari 2600.
Enduro >>>> Pole Position
@@Fellipe2k5 I am talking about a video game. I am not debating anything, glad you like enduro.
@@MassiveHappyClapper Enduro is life! Pole Position on Atari is meh.
Don't ever try to take this man's rays, Alex unleashed is a force to be reckoned with!
scam
Bro PlayStation foundry basically bashed this game the whole video🤦🏽♂️
?
Your voice sounds absolutely fantastic Alex! Good upgrade on the audio, sounds like a radio show.
There is some weird polygon variations in the engine bay of the first car man. Like the inlet pipe on the turbo looks like a hexagon. It's quite the contrast between hard edged circles and the crazy good material textures.
Yeah I noticed that lol and whilst it was in motion too, they never quite nail the fine details like Gran Turismo does.
@@craigsampson3386 while I do agree with that, I think Turn 10 has the better strategy here. What use are those tiny details that you barley ever see, when you can have awesome textures and effects work instead, which you see all the time?
@@retropolis1As a car enthusiast I personally look up close with the camera whilst paused in replays to check out the cars I've acquired, so to me its important.
I don't think you'd need anything more than SMAA (better version of poor FXAA) at 4K. People usually play on their TVs and from distance it's crisp clear.
I dont need ray tracing, just give me SOLID 60fps1440p and good in race gameplay! Qualifying, Flags, Safety car, realtime-race-menu with pitstop and diff and so
I'm tired of the Forza "AI", I want to actually race AI opponents but these don't seem to exist in Forza, they are very much on-rails and don't react at all to the car specs and physics model that the player has to contend with
@@charoleawood 100% agree. I mean there's rubber banding in other games but usually if the AI is near the player it becomes tied to the game physics. The way the AI behaves sometimes in Forza is wild.
It's about time they stopped relying on msaa for everything antialiasing. FH5, as good as it looks, suffers a lot from not having a proper temporal AA method, especially at lower resolutions, I mean not everyone has a 1440p or up monitor with a decent graphics card to run it.
Ur broke . U should have a 1440p in 2022. What do u do for a living boy ?
@@xavierwilliams2228 Or maybe he just has a big family, a lot of responsibilities and more important things to spend his money on than overpriced gaming hardware ya douche.
@@xavierwilliams2228 not everyone has a spare 300 bucks laying around to buy a nice 1440p panel. especially in the current economy. i work full time and after paying everything neccesary im left with 250 to spend on whatever i want. i do have a nice 1440p 165hz panel though.
@@JudeTheTH-camPoopersubscribe was just koking
@@xavierwilliams2228 if you added a "lol" or something I would of understood haha. But it was worded like the way the pc master race call console players poor.
You guys should do a comparison video on the new updates for RE 2, RE 3 and RE7 between Ps5 and Xbox.
RT-on in Res Evil 2 (PS5) just drops the framerate from 60 to somewhere in the 40s. Complete waste of time
@@DuckAlertBeats I disagree. I think the 40fps modes on the insomniac games are very playable. Also the RT mode is at native 4K. So having full RT with between 43 and 60fps at razer sharp 4K is pretty good to me. In addition they have a very stable 120fps mode so it's a worthwhile comparison in my opinion.
@@Exlee-dq9uo lol, 43fps..... that you deserve
Turn 10 is absolute top-tier.
They became better once they teamed up with Playground Games. Playground Games being set up by a bunch of British racing devs with over 25yrs experience making racing games.
They are levels above Insomniac
@@grtcara8386 Who, Turn 10 or Playground Games? They only make racing games so can't really compare them to Insomniac. The games Insomniac makes are far more complex.
@@bitsbobs8158 How so? racing games require the most amount of streamed data, given that its fast paced, not only that, a physics engine many times more detailed than any other type of game except for flight simulation. All forza motorsport games ran at 60fps on the xbox one.
@@bitsbobs8158 both, in terms of visual fidelity they hammer Insomniac
Of course series x is a beast!
Ha
😂
Thank you thank you for calling them out. It was very misleading and anti consumer for them to put 4K 60 in-game.
They did not put it like it.They only said rt on track and that's it.And it probably will be 60+rt,but resolution?Nobody knows
But they didn’t say that. They said RT on track. They never said they couldn’t bump up the settings in replays, photo mode and Forzavista, which are all still IN-GAME, but not gameplay.
Excellent analytical thinking, hope to see the game after they finish it. As now it looks so good NextGen
7:41
Why are they not red hot ?
The tyres didn't puncture so I assume it's a spin out ...
I'd like to see this kind of fidelity and effort in an RPG/Adventure coming from MS studios.
I believe the expectation is that Fable is being developed by Playground Games using the Forza Tech. So, Fable should have this level of fidelity.
@@Theedgecrusher93 probably not this good just because of how much more Linear a track based racing game is, but hopefully it’s pretty close.
@@spartan-0295 Considering games like RDR2 and Horizon Forbidden West run on last gen, I think it should be more than possible
This game still looks amazing compared to GT7 imo. Wish GT would get back to showing their greatness like the PS2-3 era
"How is this possible on Xbox series?"
Re: Finally the Full rdna2 shows its potential
Xbox isn't full RDNA2 as it doesn't have infinity cache.
@@bitsbobs8158 xbox series are the only consoles with complete rdna2 architecture, the infinite chache was never contemplated on consoles
I know y'all focus on technical/graphical side of things, but for me FM8s challenges lie more in the gameplay side. I'm sure it will look gorgeous, but will it have a good AI paired with a compelling single player career/sandbox options, balanced multiplayer with driver and safety ratings paired with a sensible penalty system, and will the physics strike the right balance between simulation and accessibility for a good simcade experience with depth, and will FFB support finally be good enough for us wheel/pedal users and also strikes a good balance between controller/wheel. Forza has an opportunity to truly compete with GT7, but they need to get the gameplay right, or all the beautiful graphics in the world won't matter.
They've never had a problem with gameplay in previous games, so I'm highly optimistic on that front. Though it is still a concern for me too. Time will tell
I think that to achieve 4k/60+RT on the SeriesX they are going for VRS + FSR2.0
Biggest question here is the SeriesS, because as Alex said everyone else is dropping Ray Tracing and even resolution so that the new games can run on the weaker console.
Not really a big question. It can't do rt. We all know this. Stop building some narrative as if the XSS is even capable of handling current games at a res above 1080p
After the performance and image quality of death loop using FSR 2,0 I want that feature on every game going forward.
@@thedude8128 Lol fanboys making narratives again,lots games run 1440p and evil dead even runs 4k.Its funny ps5 users play games at 1080p on 4k screen and still saying ss on 1080p screen looks bad.
Resident Evil 2, 3, 7 with RT on Xbox Series S with resolution above 1080 says hi! Also forza horizon 5
And don't forget about the matrix demo, the last metro among others
@@itsmorbtime2536 The weak series s is not going to be able to play next gen only games higher than 1080p at 60s fps unless they butcher the game's visuals.
The actual gameplay graphics while racing looked mediocre. They sacrificed graphical fidelity for low quality Ray tracing so they can say they have something over on Gran Turismo lol
You guys are the best at these analysis type videos!
Thanks DF for counting the pixels
5:26 those flickering shadows are so damn irritating. I don't get why they'd even present the game like that. Doesn't look good at all.
It's because they are using a floating camera. The actual game shouldn't do that.
@@lndrldcold1762 it's also pretty noticeable in foliage during the demo, and in FH5 as well. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be in-game as well.
I am an RT believer, but game like this is the one giant exception. It's exactly the kind of game where you will absolutely not going to notice the RT effect while in anything outside of a cut scene.
I wish more games would use RT GI instead of reflections on consoles. On PC you can get both with a powerful enough gpu. Certainly, rt gi would be more impactful for racing games (for any game really).
There's only been one game on console to use it, metro exodus, and it looks amazing. We need more of it. I'm hoping a mid gen console upgrade comes out so I can get better RT on console.
I still don't care much about ray tracing at the moment. For me, it simply doesn't offer the added value for the cost. Especially with the current hardware prices...
we'll wait for Dirty Rally 3.0 i guess also higher frames is best in racing so its more responsive for small control input changes.
It's very much depends on the game, some games it can really transform the way it looks, such as Metro exodus, Cyberpunk 2077, Quake 2 RTX, Dying Light 2.
I target 1440p 60fps and if I have enough headroom for ray tracing I will take it over increasing the resolution, if not then it stays off.
I'm using a 3070 and the majority of those games I can easily play with ray tracing.
@@R3TR0J4N Is there a Dirt Rally 3 in the works?
You haven't played a game with good RT yet then. Also remember that there are many kinds of RT, not just reflections. Metro Exodus with RT lighting completely transforms the game
Well it matters when you pay 70$ price tag for a game. Pay for more features, not for less.
Hope the simulation is actually good this time, and hope it feels good in a wheel.
Well, it's Forza. If you want pure simulation you might want to look into Assetto Corsa or iRacing instead, but this probably ain't it.
@@GeneralKenobi69420 well, despite that he still can wish for more of a simulation game. I hope it too cause no, on xbox there is no up to date realistic racer. Acc is bugged and broken,
And no paywall carpass
This will not have the same level of quality on Xbox x / s - the lies need to stop especially after that last showing 😂
FFS stop chasing 4K! 1440p at 60fps with all the bells and whistles on seems perfectly achievable this gen.
The mass market punter who is stupid enough to think that 4K means everything will likely be too stupid to tell the difference between 4k and 1440p anyway leaving the rest of us to have a lovely smooth, non-hitchy experience.
It obviously won't be 4k60 with this quality ray tracing on the series x. Simple as. there's a reason this demo was running on PC no matter what MS and turn 10 say.
We'll see in a couple months
@@mrglass7133 well I think the OP is correct , I'd be delighted if my 3080 , a graphics card vastly superior to a series x , managed 4k 60 fps with raytracing on .. not sure how series x can manage it
@@craigevans3813
We can speculate all we want...
Until the product is out we won't know 100% for sure....
Whatever the case.... Any Tech would help PCS achieve greater things ....
@@mrglass7133 4k alone is taxing on a system. Then running at 60 fps with ray tracing. There’s no need to wait. You don’t need to speculate. If that was the case we would have seen series X gameplay doing that not PC
@@LogicInWords
Like I said.... you can speculate all you want....
Until the game comes out you have no idea.
It's obvious that some form of FSR is being implemented, given that DLSS is exclusive to NVidia GPUs. As to how aggressive/conservative its use is, we'll have to wait until the actual game or more demos are released so that they can be analysed more thoroughly.
This is probably a proprietary upscaling method, like several proprietary engines use on console.