Hey eveyone! Thanks for checking out the new channel - we've got tonnes more theories coming soon and every share, like and sub we get is helping in a huge way. Ash and myself love making these videos and if you want to chat head over to Twitter and drop us your thoughts! Twitter: @thatfilmtheory Love, Jules xoxox
Should have based the timeline off the books and not the movies. The books give a more clear connection between all the events happening in his universe. Then again the page isn't that Book Theory now is it lol.
The IT book is one of the best I ever read... I love how King crafts his world and I share your thoughts about IT beeing everything Evil in the universe. (its somewhat what the book told us too...IT is the Evil in the univers while the tortoise is somewhat neutral but dislikes IT. Both are eternal and both do what they do best.) btw: I like to grab a pint with you one time to talk about all the shit and stuff ^^ Keep this good shiet UP!
In Doctor Sleep, we find out that the shining can be used as a food source to prolong life and that kids with the shining are at their strongest when in their early teens, as it fades when reaching adulthood. Knowing this, It probably targets abused kids because they are more likely to have a least a little shine to them and he can use that to make himself live longer. This would also explain why the adults don't seem to care about all the kidnappings, as It can use its influence to make them care less. However kids seem to be the only ones to notice or care as their shining would allow them to fight that same influence. Lastly It may have lost against them as picking off a single kid may be easy, but a bunch of kids with a little shine to them can fuel each other and make themselves more resistant. Dan having a strong shining allowed Abra to focus and project herself great distances, so a bunch of kids with a little shining could in theory do similar feats like pushing It out of their heads and not letting it scare them, like a mental wall. We also find out in Doctor Sleep that ghosts and the shining fuel each other, as the shining can be used to trap ghosts, but the ghosts can feed off those with the shining to make themselves more powerful. This would explain how the ghosts become more powerful the longer Danny spends in the Overlook, allowing them to manipulate Jack. If I remember correctly in Doctor Sleep, when Dan releases one of the main ghosts when fighting the True-Knot, the ghost slams shut the doors of a work shed that one was hiding in before killing her; so they should be able to manipulate locks and maybe didn't before as a way to further push Jack over the edge. I mainly remember that part because for whatever reason it was an entertaining scene for me. Of course I'm not 100% up to date on the rules of ghosts in his universe.
Sorry but this seems pretty weak at best. The connections you make are very, very dependent on too many variables. Also just by reading the book It, you would know that It only terrorizes those in a certain area and Colorado is not that area. This is a HUGE stretch.
Actually it is pretty close to what Stephen King himself has said in the past. In fact Roland came face to face with "IT" in the Dark Tower series, and was able to see how far the entity's influence stretched through multiple doorways. The Losers Club were the ones to decide it (and the Turtle) were from space, and not inter-dimensional beings...which is what they really were.
Derek McCumber I actually really enjoyed Dr. Sleep, do I think it rates up there with things like It or The Stand? Absolutely not, but I did find it enjoyable.
In Doctor Sleep, I like how they reference the “Mind Bank” from Dreamcatcher. Or at least that’s what I got from those specific scenes. And at the end of Doctor sleep, the villain says “Oh there’s more like me, I’m just the prettiest”. Referencing other entities like It.
interesting, but in the Shining book, the overlook wants Danny not Jack, because it's Danny's presence that allows the overlook to do what it does around them. In other words, the overlook wanted Danny's powers so it could become stronger. I remember this being pretty explicitly explained. Danny was too powerful to control, so the overlook had to control Jack. It even mentioned in the book that the overlook considered using Wendy, but decided Jack would most likely be able to deliver Danny.
He talking about the movies. Book and movies and 2 different mediums that translate in very specific ways. Therefore a movie taking from a book doesn't have to be copy everything. Its film theory, not book theory
Also in the it novel, when the clown is talking to Georgie, he says I’m also known as Mr. Bob Gray. Which is an alias that the alien in Dreamcatcher used.
there's also a bit in the dreamcatcher novel wear one of the protagonists ( honestly can't remember who) walks by some graffiti saying ""pennywise lives."
Jamie Merian keep reading, you’ll get there. It’s one line, where Pennywise leaves something that character left behind in the river, but the “from” address states Bob Gray.
I took it as king himself being IT. He once said he always includes some of his personality or memories in his novels. Would also explain why so many stories are connected somehow. I always thought the kids in IT were different aspects of himself being bullied growing up. Now he enjoys inspiring fear in others. He takes whatever form he needs to accomplish this, just like IT. All of his protagonists are put on a slow burn fear ride as if torture is the goal not their eventual death. King often seemed take more pleasure from hearing his book was terrifying than hearing it was well written.
Interesting BUT King himself once said long ago that The Shining was just basically his version of a haunted hotel (house). There was a force/entities/spirits within but had nothing to do with IT.
He later retcons it. In the retcon, the Overlook occupies the same space as something in the todash darkness. Hence why it became a sacred ground (Indian cemetary) turned hotel.
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This video, though I agree with almost all of its theory, is a bit derailed by the obviousness that the writer didn't bother to read the novel The Shining, which is considerably different from the movie and negates many of the statements made in this video. For instance, the narrator states that "There are only two times that the spirits in The Shining affect the physical world in both the book and movie: the attack on Danny (in Room 237) and the unlocking of the door by Grady." Although this is 100% true of the Kubrick film, readers of the novel know this is a preposterous statement, as in the novel there are MANY manifestations in the physical world: Danny being attacked in the playground, Halloran being attacked and nearly killed by hedge animals, the fire hose attacking Danny (and, if I'm not mistaken, Wendy as well), etc, etc.
While I haven't read the novel, the film version of Ready Player One (which I've heard is a decent adaptation of the book in most regards) claimed that the movie version of The Shining was Stephen King's greatest regret, and that he actually hated how it turned out and refuses to acknowledge it as an adaptation of his work. So yeah, I'm inclined to believe that any theory about Stephen King's work needs to focus on the writings, not the adaptations.
Wiz that is is true. Stephen hated Kubrick's adaptation so much that he produced his own tv mini series. Ironically, it is the worse of the two although being closer to the book version of the story.
SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK The hotel is the one shining into Jack. At least in the book the Overlook is alive and has the shine (possibly due to the enormous amount of tragedy that happens there. Possibly not)
@@dancegregorydance6933 the books make it clear that the Shining is a genetic trait just like Jack's alcoholism is. Something you have to overcome to be productive. A way for Mr. King himself to work through in his own addiction management.
You obviously haven't read either book. Real mental gymnastics being used here to make a few similarities equate to the same entity. The only connection was Dick was in Derry in the 20's and seen It.
No offence guys but That Film Theory isn't a very good name. Perhaps Whatculture Theories to ensure that people don't see you as a MatPat clone. Nonetheless, hope the channel does well
The physical presence at The Overlook may not be It/Pennywise, it's more likely that it is another of the same type of creature. In The Dark Tower, Roland and Susannah encounter Dandelo, who King himself has said is the same type of creature as It/Pennywise (some fans think Dandelo is It's offspring).
Rob R, yes, but then into a beetle thing. But neither dandelo, nor IT has an actual form so it takes on the fears of the viewer. It's possible that roland at one point feared the midworld version of what a clown is. We do know that his fun at the local fairs was the rather mundane riddle contest, so it's possible. And since there are no spiders in rolands world, it took on the equivalent.
its not pennywise or other creatures at the overlook, its ghost that have been given form by the "shine" people with the shinning power can be used like a battery to manifest physical forms for ghost if you read Dr sleep is fallows danny 30 years later and tells and shows what they are and how they can be trapped.
FERMINDAL I am sorry but your wrong, then feed off of the shinning power , now it has been shown in the books that when they are afraid the power comes out stronger making them (the ghost) stronger... As far as the king universe and other general mythos ghost can change shape.. but they are not a shape shifting spider monster from the space between dimensions like pennywise. To further show the point pennywise doesn't eat fear he eats flesh ..fear is what makes it taste better to him as was said by king. So to summarize ghost are not flesh eating spider monsters
"It" came out nine years after "The Shining". There was no "It" when King wrote "The Shining". Considering the fact that King himself has stated that he unearths his stories while writing them, rather than creating them through careful planning, you can't even say that "It" was always part of the plan. Everything you're seeing could only work as a retcon. That's it. Sure, it works for books that came afterwards, but not for books that came out nine years earlier. Not a chance.
King also has a thing for numbers. In the book, The Shining, the haunted hotel room is 217. The movie script changed it to a room number the hotel didn't have because they feared that they'd never be able to rent out room 217 if the movie used it. So, look for 217 across King's Universe. It seems like a hard stretch that the kids in 'It' would have anything to do with having the Shining. There's no hint at all of it in his book. And, it seems that most discussions on King's Universe forget to include 'Blaze' under the pseudonym Richard Bachman. Blaze is in a mental institute for a while and it is mentioned that Henry Bowers (or the other thug) was in there with him.
I'm a huge fan of IT and while I've gone through a lot of theories in my head, this one is probably one of my favorites so far. Now I want to rewatch a lot of these films.
Everything Stephen King has written is set in the same universe. It is NOT the same being that is in the Overlook. It's one of many minions of the Dark that reaches out to attack beings in our dimension. Your homework....Quit watching movies. And read the books. The main villain in the Kingverse is the Crimson King, followed by his lackey Flagg. Pennywise barely rates in the main picture. It is just a really good book.
I agree. Their evidence is very weak, very circumstantial. Based on what they've presented, you could literally tie any and all of King's stories into 'It.' Truth is, ALL of his stories are tied to 'The Dark Tower.' As you said, you'd get that if you read the books. My only disagreement with you is that 'It' is a good book. I've never felt it worked.
Still loved when Ralf an old man who was tapped gave the Crimson King a black eye ... well guts him as a giant crimson catfish and pokes out his eye with an earing stud... sometimes the big boss is not that strong (insomnia )
In the new IT Chapter Two, the girl seems to have the Shining. She sees visions of other people's past and future. Not only this, but I'm the scene where she's almost drowning in the toilet stall and all these characters are trying to break in the door, one of them yells "Heeeere's Johnny!"
If anyone feels bad and is upset /concerned about Jack Torrence you'll be happy to know that in the sequel to The Shining Doctor Sleep it is revealed shortly that he found peace in the afterlife. :)
King has written so many books, and elements repeat over the course of them. Some may have shared universe qualities, but others are just recurring themes.
There is one gap in this theory...Pennywise wouldn't have let Danny and his mother go. The fear would be too sweet for him to pass up especially after Jack died.
Only problem is that The Shining was written well before King even had ideas for It. King's connected storylines are the epitome of retroactive continuity. He did not plan any of these connections, just made it up as he went along.
That doesnt matter in my opinion. He IS the author. And yes...while King had no concept of IT back then, he clearly sees it now and has admitted to it. Im from the school that the author is right
ppl been making shared universes since before ancient Greece. It hasn't been new for millennia. I mean, King obviously took universe sharing cues from Lovecraft.
If you've noticed, this video does not use footage from The Shining Mini-series, nor does it use IT's mini-series. Danny and Wendy reacts differently in the mini-series toward Jack. And the mini-series is closer to the book, which allows more connections between The Shining and Doctor Sleep. In IT: The mini-series, Georgy was not in a heavy rainstorm (The rain stopped for short time), when Pennywise was manifesting, so the weather condition connections are not exactly correct.
I always thought that the Shining abilities develop in children who suffer from abuse (either domestic, sexual, psychological, etc.) and is triggered by a final breaking point. I also think the Shining can be a sort of catch-all for most of the protagonists in King’s supernatural novels, that intense trauma activates it as an empowering defense mechanism (King’s nothing if not good at allegory, so the Shining is literally a manifestation of PTSD). Looking at trauma as being a trigger for the Shining, Jack is subtextually implied to be consistently violent against Danny; all of the Losers Club kids deal with shitty home lives and constant bullying; Carrie discovers her powers after one extremely traumatic event; all of the survivors in The Stand are psychically linked to Mother Abigail and the Walkin Dude (almost as if having the ability to Shine is what allowed them to survive). I’m sure there are other examples, too.
i figured the shining was a short hand term used in the film of the same name. u also forgot charlie from Fire Starter though its a little cop out but the idea still stands. charlie had the abliitly of pyrokinisis from the start, near the end when she sees her dad murdered the ability seemed to of got a boost. though the chemical used may of just been a way to unlock. seem could be said of johny from Dead Zone though pysical trauma.
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger definitely applies here I think people always write the Losers Club off but they all exhibit the shine in varying degrees which is why they can sense how off Derry is it's wasn't and overactive imagination that allowed them to hurt Pennywise it was an intense need to want to a manifestation of all of their pain and suffering brought out their powers....
no the Shinning power is genetic as it was shown in the book Dr Sleep that fallows Danny 30 years in the future. the book total disproves this theory and the shinning power can manifest in many ways. But it has been shown that Jack and Danny and that people from family lines get the power passed down sometimes skipping generations. It also goes into that people are born with more or less of the power and children have more of it then adults do. The Shinning power can also be used like a muscle the more you use it the stronger you can make it let alone control it.
Greg you may be right but you are also wrong, you start off with "No" and go to explain why some get it and others don't (genetic) but that by no means proves that it can't be TRIGGERED by trauma.
The Shine is a consequence of having the same bloodline as Arthur Eld, who was the first Gunslinger, and King Arthur from the legends, and who has The Crimson King, Pennywise, Dandelo, and The Man In Black as direct descendants. Roland is also a descendant of Arthur Eld, and his extraordinary ablities with a revolver come from him being trained to use his Shine.
1:44 It always bugs me that they used an image from a battle in the American Civil War (Gettysburg I think) to illustrate dead bodies from the Derry explosion. I mean honestly.
Spongebob and Winnie the Pooh both represent the Seven Deadly Sins. Snowpiercer is the sequel to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Ferris Buller is Cameron Frye, Grease takes place in the afterlife and it's Marcellus Wallace's soul in the Briefcase in Pulp Fiction, or not...
King's philosophy has always been that evil is in our own psyches, not an external force, and that the simple act of resisting it defeats it. In all his works, there is no external power that is exerted against evil. Evil is defeated when the protagonist(s) defy it with true belief in the power of good.
Only one of the "Losers" would need a proficient shine. The close bond between the group of friends would allow the club's other members to manifest their own unique talents as they absorb and redirect the latent psychokinetic energy. King set a similar scenario in Dreamcatcher.
Nicole Grace I was wondering the same thing. Best guess is iconography- the new release of It is all over youtube, substantially moreso than the original, while the original version of the Shining is more iconic than the miniseries version.
There is no "original IT" theres a 1990 miniseries and 2017 film. Just like theres a Shining 1980 film and 90's Shining miniseries. It 2017 is NOT a remake.
The one thing that none of these Shining theories NEVER address is that Jack has the "shine" to him. He just doesn't know it or believe it. That's the significance of Mr. Halloran saying this to Danny in the beginning of the movie. That's why the only two people who can see the phenomena going on around them in the hotel are Jack and Danny. With Jack more than likely having genetically passed this on to his son.
Supernatural events are not commonly talked enough about for there to be many experts of credible standing. If a soul is Strong enough to resist death why cant open it doors. Logic dont apply to paranormal shite.
The Shining is mentioned in Misery (the book not the movie) when Annie tells Paul that there's not much in the town of Sidewinder except a feed store, gas station, and a side road that winds up through the mountains to the spot where "that creepy old hotel used to be before the caretaker went insane and burned it down."
This is all very creative and imaginative *_BUT,_* despite King's universe having obvious connections all throughout, *_THERE IS ONE MASSIVE DETAIL THAT WAS STRANGELY "OVERLOOKED" AND ODDLY NEVER ONCE MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO_* which basically proves that Pennywise is *_NOT_* the being responsible for the events that happen in _'The Shining'_ and that is simply this: _'The Shining'_ was written in the 70's and published in 1977, while _'IT'_ was published in 1986. Looking at those years, one can logically ask - How could Pennywise be responsible for the events that happen in _'The Shining'_ when King hadn't even *_thought_* up the character of Pennywise in 1977? Not to mention, in the sequel novel to _'The Shining',_ _'Doctor Sleep',_ we are given a brief synopsis of what happened to the Torrance family back at the Overlook Hotel. If King had wanted Pennywise to have been seen as the entity being responsible for those events, why didn't he make that type of connection to _'IT'_ there as well? Also, in _'The Shining'_ novel and made-for-TV-mini-series (I don't take Kubrick's film into account too much because Kubrick took too many liberties with the original story and he didn't really want the film to have a supernatural overtone as he didn't believe in that himself), we are clearly told that the spirits within the Overlook Hotel fed upon Jack Torrance's "shining" (through his alcoholism Note: it's not really acknowledged that Jack has the "shining" but, one can infer to this as he is susceptible to the entities in the Overlook just like Danny and Halloran) in order to get to his son, Danny, whose "shining" was stronger than his father's or Halloran's. The more they fed and manipulated Jack, the stronger they got and the more they could manifest themselves in physical ways. This was why they could open locks eventually (though with great effort, which is another detail we hear mentioned in _'Dr. Sleep'_ if I'm not mistaken). This was also why they wanted to drain Jack in order to fully manifest themselves so they wouldn't need to depend on him anymore and could go after Danny themselves. Last, for me personally, while I love the idea of there being connections all throughout King's body of works, I don't like the idea of Pennywise being the "puppetmaster" behind *_EVERYTHING_* that happens in it. I like having variety when it comes to the antagonists and protagonists in his stories. I think it would become very limiting to have Pennywise be the "main" villain all throughout the King macroverse. Don't get me wrong, Pennywise was a very cool antagonist and all but, making him be the one behind every instance of evil in everything is rather lazy and un-imaginative imho...
P.S. Just thought up another reason why this theory is highly unlikely - if Pennywise could leave Derry and cause havoc in other places, why didn't it go after the Losers when they moved away from Derry? After all, they would be the ones IT hated the most since they were the first ones to actually hurt it and almost kill it. If IT could travel all the way to Colorado, what kept it from following the Losers to their respective destinations after they left Derry? Another detail mentioned in _'Dr. Sleep'_ is how Danny is able to capture the spirits of the Overlook and confine them. There is no mention of Pennywise or a clown or any other type of thing to associate with Pennywise...
Your assuming IT operates within the same time perception as humans. Its unclear how IT operates within time....or out for that matter. But all in all i agree with you.
Well you can't really site events from the movies because Stanley Kubrick took many liberties from the book and Stephen King actually hated the movie adaptation. You'd have to reference only the materials in the novels; but I'm sure there's some truth to it.
Seems like IT can be tied to The Shining. Pennywise did overtake Henry Bowers to get him to kill the same way that Jack was taken over in The Shining. You're right.. both events started with horrid weather.. a snowstorm & rainstorm. Hmmm. The Macroverse is too awesome.
I think it's a pretty big assumption that it's Pennywise herself interacting with the Overlook Hotel when there's no direct evidence for it, not even a suggestion. I also don't think it's beyond reason to believe that it was just the spirits who simply interacted with the physical world (if we're going with the interpretation that the ghosts are real, of course). Another example of a spirit doing this was when the former caretaker helped Jack clean his jacket in the bathroom. The bartender also does this when he pours and serves jack his drinks at the bar. The ghosts may not often interact with the physical world, but I think it's pretty clearly established that they are entirely capable of doing so. At most, there is an entity or entities like Pennywose trying to feed on Jack and Danny's shine. In fact, I would argue that some or all of the spirits there are like Pennywise in that they're supernatural beings that try to feed on people's shine and that only those with shine can normally see them unless these beings otherwise want to be seen. I thibk Dr. Sleep more than backs this up. It doesn't need to be Pennywise to be something or people who do things like Pennywise.
But hey, that's just a theory... THAT Film Theory! I would have went with a different name. I tried searching for the channel the other day and only got Film Theory videos. Really had to dig for this one. But hey, I am subbed, so as long as the videos show up in my feed, I'm happy. So glad you didn't make it a top 5 or 10 list... I like the actual video essay format.
Great theory that seems spot on. You refer to "It" as an "inter-dimensional being." I think people tend to literal-ize characters in stories, because they're easier to understand, talk about, and pass along (i.e. mythologies). However, have you considered that "It" may not be an actual being, rather a representation of an idea or human characteristic? Perhaps "It" represents the most base human fear--the fear that holds the weak back and causes the strong to rise to a challenge. I feel like King's characters represent human archetypes and the monsters represent human characteristics.
In the Shining, the hotel drove Jack Torrance crazy specifically so he would kill his son Danny. The hotel wanted to keep Danny there forever as a victim because Danny had a powerful version of 'the Shine.' I don't think that the entity in the Overlook hotel is the same entity as It, but this could explain why It was going after the specific kids in the 'Loser's Club.' It is said that they had 'the Shine' as well, so perhaps It wanted to consume them to gain that 'Shine' power.
your theory acts like the dark towers never happened. we all know the answers are in those books about all connections. why make up strange theories when we already know exactly what something is? you really should try to actually read some of the books instead of only watching the movies.
Really? Huh. I guess I should start a wrestling channel on TH-cam and call it "I Wrestle With Wregret". Or maybe "Wrestling Talk". Or "What? Culture Wrestling".
Excellent analysis guys! I found more evidence in Doctor Sleep that explains how Pennywise is one of interdimensional creatures that feed off children with the shining. I can't remember exactly, but I think the prologue has Dick Haleron tell Danny of how he saw Pennywise in Darry and other creatures like those in The Overlook. I loved how you brought in more of Stephen King's novels to support your theory. Going straight to Doctor Sleep does feel like a bit of a cheat, so seeing how you pieced it together was awesome! I'm looking forward to more film theory videos from you guys. I love your work and insight into movies. The calmer analysis on movies is also refreshing from your other movie videos. It's a great balance! 💓💓💓
Laverne Blaszczyk I haven't read Sleeping Beauties! You've got me curious. Thanks for the suggestion. I loved Doctor Sleep, but I also haven't read many of King's books. Then characters in DS did feel one-dimensional to me, but I just got sucked into The Shining mythology. Based on your comment, I'm thinking I'm missing out on some really awesome characters in his universe. I'll have to check out Sleeping Beauties. Thanks! 😁
A thorough reading of both The Shining and Doctor Sleep completely debunks this theory. Jack and Danny possess a “shine” or a strong supernatural sensitivity. This is what awakens the evil of the Overlook hotel. They work as a battery, this empowers the spirits and allows them to interact with the outside world with increasing regularity. Their ability to do this is also contingent on the power of the spirit.
When compiling your notes for this video, you left out some crucial information regarding The Shining. It should be mentioned in this video. Seems like what you're really saying is that the two books/movies parallel each other rather than share the same entity. I'm not going to disprove the idea mentioned, but what drives the hauntings at the Overlook Hotel is the fact that the building is built over a native burial ground. This should sound very familiar to any Stephen King fan, because burial grounds have come up several times, Pet Cemetery included. The 1990 version of Stephen King's It does a very good job as to explain what the entity really is. We have yet to see how the movie version does this, but the mini-series had a spider-like creature that had the power to change form, so it's not limited to just a creepy looking clown. What probably happened in the 1986 book was that the creature came out of hiding and saw a circus in action, and more than likely attacked everyone in the tent, but when the creature saw the clowns, and how they fascinated the children, the creature probably realized that by taking the form of a clown, it could get to it's prey much easier, which makes Pennywise the Clown, that much more creepier. Not only that, but if watching either or, movie or mini-series, you'll notice that there's only one picture, in the archives that shows anything circus related. This suggests that the film makers either did this for a scare tactic, or enhances an idea from the book, that the entity is trying to erase it's own recorded history. On one final note, between the two film pieces, at this point, I much prefer the mini-series. The piece has aged well, it's a part of pop culture, I've got a picture of someone dressed as Pennywise at a Comic-Con event, Tim Curry nailed his role as the dancing clown, all the adults look legit for their children counterparts, (Annette O'Tootle is a nock-out, by the way), and Tommy Lee Wallace directed the whole thing. If anyone knows their horror film history, you should know that his mentor in the business is John Carpenter, the very creator of the Halloween franchise that included Michael Myers. If you actually check the credits with the first two Halloween sequels, I'm pretty sure Wallace was executive producer.
Jack wasnt locked in a bank vault, he was in a dry stock room. The lock is just a latch handle with a locking pin. Technically there should be a way to unscrew the lock from the inside, they have the same thing on restaurant freezers and coolers.
Another theory is not only Pennywise, but the Man in Black from the Dark Tower, The Dad from the Mist, Carrie, and also a Owner of Cujo have all also checked in to the Overlook Hotel in the Shining!!!
@Pissed off Alpha male look man I just dont agree with this theory at all. theres no need to make it personal and get all butthurt. if you've read Doctor Sleep youll know why this doesn't work. I just get annoyed when people theorize about the King universe from the movies.
@@kristakacz There's more of a Shining tie in to the Dark Tower than there is to IT. Danny's a breaker. A tie in to IT has to be manufactured, the tie in to The Dark Tower is plainly evident.
Over read many King books and Misey confirms that the shining and misery are related as Annie Wilkes, in the book, openly talks about the overlook and how a family got killed up there. These, if I remember, are in the 130 pages range.
Interesting, but in the film scatman basically tells Danny that whatever he sees in the hotel isn't real and can't hurt him. Clearly IT can hurt and kill, and rather enjoys it. It could just be his way of keeping Danny from being afraid, but if he is directly connected to Derry he would presumably know the difference between the spirits and IT.
Interesting, as usual. I remember, though, that The Shining had its own back story, including some PC exploited Indians or their sacred lands (weren't all their lands sacred?). Take a gander at Rob Ager's analyses of The Shining. It coordinates such things as an alternate Jack encountered upon Real Jack's arrival at the hotel, and minor evidence such as Jack's reaction to walking past mirrors. Your video may get me to watch the newer version of "It." I'd avoided - er - it, since the first one sucked so badly, despite a good job by Tim Curry and the scrumptiousness of Annette O'Toole.
In several books, similar beings to IT are introduced. Dandelo in The Dark Tower and The Outsider in the book of the same name are similar monsters to IT and thrive on emotional extremes. Dandelo feeds on laughter to the point of driving his victims mad and The Outsider feeds on sorrow. So there may be a monster at the overlook that is a relative to IT.
If this was true, which is widely improbable (It does not have that kind of power and it is not fond of such convoluted plans and it is not nomadic - it is, in a sense, Derry born and breed) - it would make the plot of "The Shining" less compelling. One of the most horrific aspects of the Overlook Hotel is that it is not clear what is responsible and it would also make It look like a schmuck for dying the way it did.
It's what we call: overanalysing. Every artist works on a mindset. Take the paintings of Edward Hopper: same universe, different persons represented, different places but all seems to come from the same world. But it don't means that Hopper link conscientiously all his paintings.
Stephen King actually does have his works set in the same universe and has the same villians show up more than once. Unfortunately, this theory doesn't hold water since it's based off the the Kubrick film and not the actual book by King.
This shit happens when culture overemphasises consuming rather than inspiring, the consumer can't come up with their own work so will overanalyse almost anything to make it tidy and understandable.
My theory is that King sees IT inside of himself, his dark shadow, and writes these stories of children fighting back because his inner child is afraid of his beast nature fully consuming him. He secretly wants that child to win, but persistently lives in the beast's lair and is tempted by his stories of the macabre to continue giving them life, stoking the fears of mankind for generations.
Problem is, Pennywise has been shown CONSISTENTLY to linger in a certain area and that's Derry. He's been there since the town's founding and never left, only emerging to feed every 27 years. Simply put, whatever physical entity was at the Overlook wasn't Pennywise plus when the film takes place he's still hibernating.
That'd be cool, if his books tie in together, to elude to a supreme "Dark Force" behind all the chaos. Desperation, The Regulators, and Storm of the Century, to name a few, seem in line with the theme of an "alien" malefactor. Enjoy hearing your theories.
anna banana - That's VERY clever. But to keep reinventing the same villain and not get boring. Kudos I read the Dark Tower books soo long ago. Loved them... But I hardly remember it. Haven't seen the new Dark Tower. Hear it's pretty bad.
Pothead Mike I finished the Dark Tower a couple of years ago so it's still decently fresh in my mind. It was also my first time reading Stephen King. (Reading Salem's Lot currently.) I saw the movie, but it's VERY loosely based on the books. It was too short. Not enough time for character development. They just shoved a bunch of aspects from all the books into a 90-minute movie. Disappointing for sure. (I still didn't hate it tho!)
anna banana - I've read several of his books and I haven't been disappointed having read one. With that being said. "Bag of Bones" was the one I liked the least. The movie was even worse. Yeah, that's the problem with books to movies. Time. A movie can't flesh out a book properly. There's two "Salem Lot". A 1979 CBS mini series. And a 2004 TNT mini series. Both weren't bad especially for TV. What did you think about Stanley Kubrick's, "The Shining"? And the remake of "IT"?
i've read around 50ish of this books and only dislike the girl who loved tom gordon, but yes they are all connected some how, either character wise or characters speaking of evens that happen in other books. i noticed this before i read the dark tower and felt kinda dumb after i read the dark tower because i just thought i was looking into something that was not there lol. glad to see more king fans new and old, love his books so very much
Remember when they tried to link everything in the James Bond universe to Blofeld in Spectre? That was a terrible idea! It's fine for King to leave little easter eggs in his books for fans to discover, but he's just messing with us. Any serious attempt by King to merge everything into one huge horror story, with one villain, would lessen the power of the individual stories. The best horror, I believe, leaves something unexplained, and in the shadows.
Insightful or smart? Neither of these words describe Matpat. Just watch his For Honor episode. So many flaws and once you catch on you see the same in all his stuff.
David Roberson I stand by what I said. And if you have only one eg out of 100s of video,I dont mind a few lame videos once in a while. And he is apparently great since this dude is trying to trick us into thinking he is Mat with the name of his channel.
The overlook hotel essentially "recruits" Jack so he can feed Danny to the evil in the hotel. The entire point of the book is that the evil in the hotel wants Danny. The same evil manifests again in the sequel Doctor Sleep, where Danny is an adult who has full use of the shining. This is why King hated the movie. It dismisses major plot points. If you read Doctor Sleep after only watching the movie you'd realize just how much was missing in the film.
No, they can't. The only reason they have any type of "insight" or premonition is because of "The Other". None of them really know what's going to happen naturally on their own, they are aided by other forces or rituals. That's not the same as "shining"...
Then why did Danny tell his mom that an old lady tried to strangle him in Room 237, which really did happen in the book, which I know isn't that similar to its film adaptation? Even Kubrick himself confirmed that the supernatural presence of the hotel really was there.
The reason Pennywise hates children is that all the strongest breakers are children. Roland talks about the beams, and how each has an animal 'god' (they fight shardik the bear). One of the already broken beams was the one for the Spider (which in the book is Pennywise true form) so it kinda makes sense this mad god, it's beam broken by children, would want to make them suffer.
If the theory had been that the "shining" power connected IT and THE SHINING, I'd be more likely to agree. As many have already pointed out, the books designate separate entities for the Overlook and Derry hauntings, and both are beings limited to specific regions. Quite possibly they are related and share characteristics, such as a need to flavor its prey with fear. Given how long IT has been trapped on Earth, it's even possible that the Overlook Horror is one of the offspring of IT.
Guys, film theory is a channel that exists AND Matpat did a better version of this theory months ago If you want to make a theory channel, then just give it a better name and try make theories that aren't done on film theory
Just reading the comments and figured I should point this out.. King’s stories are rarely finished. They are constantly being tweaked and have things added to them occasionally. The man himself has said this hundreds of times. So I would imagine a newer publication of a book like The Shining or It would have something different about it. If you read the books decades ago, you might not have read the same exact one someone else has.
The problem with this theory is that you mix up the books and the films for It and The Shining. We know for a fact that Kubrick specifically differed his film from Steven King's novel. So he didn't keep any of the connections from the It book and Shining book. There are many other themes in The Shining that Kubrick focuses on and not making his film connect with a separate book of the author he deliberately defied.
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Hey eveyone!
Thanks for checking out the new channel - we've got tonnes more theories coming soon and every share, like and sub we get is helping in a huge way. Ash and myself love making these videos and if you want to chat head over to Twitter and drop us your thoughts!
Twitter: @thatfilmtheory
Love,
Jules xoxox
That Film Theory same jules from whatculture?
Should have based the timeline off the books and not the movies. The books give a more clear connection between all the events happening in his universe. Then again the page isn't that Book Theory now is it lol.
Thiis is absolute gold. I like your BTTF theory too
Tons* Asshole
The IT book is one of the best I ever read... I love how King crafts his world and I share your thoughts about IT beeing everything Evil in the universe. (its somewhat what the book told us too...IT is the Evil in the univers while the tortoise is somewhat neutral but dislikes IT. Both are eternal and both do what they do best.)
btw: I like to grab a pint with you one time to talk about all the shit and stuff ^^
Keep this good shiet UP!
I really want to see IT turn into someone's student loans: "You'll never pay me off! You'll never pay me off!"
It turned for me. I will never pay it off.
That would be my worst fear for sure lol
Dropped dead 😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😎😎
In Doctor Sleep, we find out that the shining can be used as a food source to prolong life and that kids with the shining are at their strongest when in their early teens, as it fades when reaching adulthood. Knowing this, It probably targets abused kids because they are more likely to have a least a little shine to them and he can use that to make himself live longer. This would also explain why the adults don't seem to care about all the kidnappings, as It can use its influence to make them care less. However kids seem to be the only ones to notice or care as their shining would allow them to fight that same influence. Lastly It may have lost against them as picking off a single kid may be easy, but a bunch of kids with a little shine to them can fuel each other and make themselves more resistant. Dan having a strong shining allowed Abra to focus and project herself great distances, so a bunch of kids with a little shining could in theory do similar feats like pushing It out of their heads and not letting it scare them, like a mental wall.
We also find out in Doctor Sleep that ghosts and the shining fuel each other, as the shining can be used to trap ghosts, but the ghosts can feed off those with the shining to make themselves more powerful. This would explain how the ghosts become more powerful the longer Danny spends in the Overlook, allowing them to manipulate Jack. If I remember correctly in Doctor Sleep, when Dan releases one of the main ghosts when fighting the True-Knot, the ghost slams shut the doors of a work shed that one was hiding in before killing her; so they should be able to manipulate locks and maybe didn't before as a way to further push Jack over the edge. I mainly remember that part because for whatever reason it was an entertaining scene for me. Of course I'm not 100% up to date on the rules of ghosts in his universe.
Sorry but this seems pretty weak at best. The connections you make are very, very dependent on too many variables. Also just by reading the book It, you would know that It only terrorizes those in a certain area and Colorado is not that area. This is a HUGE stretch.
^^^This.
Thank you :)
Just to add - there’s an entire crew detailed in dr. Sleep that speaks to what happened in the shining. Definitely agree this is a stretch.
Also It is frome the space as the tortoise. So shining is going more from human issues.
Actually it is pretty close to what Stephen King himself has said in the past. In fact Roland came face to face with "IT" in the Dark Tower series, and was able to see how far the entity's influence stretched through multiple doorways. The Losers Club were the ones to decide it (and the Turtle) were from space, and not inter-dimensional beings...which is what they really were.
“I’d sell my soul for a drink”-dead bartender appears, gives him a drink and then shit happens. That’s the explanation
Also, look at his eyes when he drinks the drink.
Yep. Shit went sideways there after, though it was tilting toward the edge well before. Love this movie
Check the time stamp when he picks it up to drink- 66.6
Yep that checks out! In the not so supernatural though when an alcoholic is drying out illusions, the shakes and other physical calamities can occur.
Except Dr. Sleep clearly explains why It is not what was at the Overlook.
Exactly what I was thinking. Everyone forgets that The Shining had a sequel...
Great point!!
I'd prefer to believe Dr. Sleep doesn't exist, as it kind of sucked.
Derek McCumber I actually really enjoyed Dr. Sleep, do I think it rates up there with things like It or The Stand? Absolutely not, but I did find it enjoyable.
I scrolled down specifically to see if somebody made this point. Thank you!
In Doctor Sleep, I like how they reference the “Mind Bank” from Dreamcatcher. Or at least that’s what I got from those specific scenes. And at the end of Doctor sleep, the villain says “Oh there’s more like me, I’m just the prettiest”. Referencing other entities like It.
interesting, but in the Shining book, the overlook wants Danny not Jack, because it's Danny's presence that allows the overlook to do what it does around them. In other words, the overlook wanted Danny's powers so it could become stronger. I remember this being pretty explicitly explained. Danny was too powerful to control, so the overlook had to control Jack. It even mentioned in the book that the overlook considered using Wendy, but decided Jack would most likely be able to deliver Danny.
He talking about the movies. Book and movies and 2 different mediums that translate in very specific ways. Therefore a movie taking from a book doesn't have to be copy everything. Its film theory, not book theory
@@moxiemaxie3543 But if we are talking from Stephen King's point of view you'd have to go by the book. The movie is different than the book.
Also in the it novel, when the clown is talking to Georgie, he says I’m also known as Mr. Bob Gray. Which is an alias that the alien in Dreamcatcher used.
Dusty Bragg Bob Gray is also the name on the package containing the knife used to kill Zach.
there's also a bit in the dreamcatcher novel wear one of the protagonists ( honestly can't remember who) walks by some graffiti saying ""pennywise lives."
I'm about 1/3 the way through "It", and was/still am wondering what the connection is with Bob Grey and Pennywise. . .
Jamie Merian keep reading, you’ll get there. It’s one line, where Pennywise leaves something that character left behind in the river, but the “from” address states Bob Gray.
I try to forget about Dreamcatcher. To me its the Maximum Overdrive of the novels. My personal opinion.
I took it as king himself being IT. He once said he always includes some of his personality or memories in his novels. Would also explain why so many stories are connected somehow. I always thought the kids in IT were different aspects of himself being bullied growing up. Now he enjoys inspiring fear in others. He takes whatever form he needs to accomplish this, just like IT. All of his protagonists are put on a slow burn fear ride as if torture is the goal not their eventual death. King often seemed take more pleasure from hearing his book was terrifying than hearing it was well written.
Interesting BUT King himself once said long ago that The Shining was just basically his version of a haunted hotel (house).
There was a force/entities/spirits within but had nothing to do with IT.
He later retcons it. In the retcon, the Overlook occupies the same space as something in the todash darkness. Hence why it became a sacred ground (Indian cemetary) turned hotel.
This video, though I agree with almost all of its theory, is a bit derailed by the obviousness that the writer didn't bother to read the novel The Shining, which is considerably different from the movie and negates many of the statements made in this video. For instance, the narrator states that "There are only two times that the spirits in The Shining affect the physical world in both the book and movie: the attack on Danny (in Room 237) and the unlocking of the door by Grady." Although this is 100% true of the Kubrick film, readers of the novel know this is a preposterous statement, as in the novel there are MANY manifestations in the physical world: Danny being attacked in the playground, Halloran being attacked and nearly killed by hedge animals, the fire hose attacking Danny (and, if I'm not mistaken, Wendy as well), etc, etc.
While I haven't read the novel, the film version of Ready Player One (which I've heard is a decent adaptation of the book in most regards) claimed that the movie version of The Shining was Stephen King's greatest regret, and that he actually hated how it turned out and refuses to acknowledge it as an adaptation of his work. So yeah, I'm inclined to believe that any theory about Stephen King's work needs to focus on the writings, not the adaptations.
Wiz that is is true. Stephen hated Kubrick's adaptation so much that he produced his own tv mini series. Ironically, it is the worse of the two although being closer to the book version of the story.
A few corrections:
2:50 Jack was fired to assaulting a student
4:20 Danny was attacked in room 217
It's 237 in the movie, Kubrick changed it
these are in the book not the film
@@wickrman1 this is called film theory not book theory. People need to learn to seperate the 2 mediums.
The best theory I've seen on The Shining is that Doc is causing Jack's madness by shining into Jack's mind and causing the hallucinations.
It’s an interesting theory, but weren’t there real spirits in the overlook?
Check out the wendy theory
SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK
The hotel is the one shining into Jack. At least in the book the Overlook is alive and has the shine (possibly due to the enormous amount of tragedy that happens there. Possibly not)
@@dancegregorydance6933 the books make it clear that the Shining is a genetic trait just like Jack's alcoholism is. Something you have to overcome to be productive. A way for Mr. King himself to work through in his own addiction management.
The King universe is impressive...
B L that’s why he’s the king
Frank Peter you know you’re right!
Isaac Ezac yeah I know , the kid orgy back in 1986 threw me pretty bad especially cause I was 10 🤮
B L oh wow
Isaac Ezac I know lol hell of a way to get introduced to sex
You obviously haven't read either book. Real mental gymnastics being used here to make a few similarities equate to the same entity. The only connection was Dick was in Derry in the 20's and seen It.
People like this never read the books, and alot of the times arent actually fans. channels like this the narrators are just that. Its a scam.
No offence guys but That Film Theory isn't a very good name. Perhaps Whatculture Theories to ensure that people don't see you as a MatPat clone. Nonetheless, hope the channel does well
A-Mei-Zing A That's a good point why not WhatCulture Theory
I think this is separate from Whatculture. The only connection is Jules
troy baker Oh my god I love your voice acting especially as Pain, You Rock
sorry, not that Troy Baker...
troy baker Ok going to ignore that and once again say that I love you as Pain
The physical presence at The Overlook may not be It/Pennywise, it's more likely that it is another of the same type of creature. In The Dark Tower, Roland and Susannah encounter Dandelo, who King himself has said is the same type of creature as It/Pennywise (some fans think Dandelo is It's offspring).
Nicklaus Louis didn’t he actually start turning into a clown as well...sorry..haven’t read the series in a while
Rob R, yes, but then into a beetle thing.
But neither dandelo, nor IT has an actual form so it takes on the fears of the viewer. It's possible that roland at one point feared the midworld version of what a clown is. We do know that his fun at the local fairs was the rather mundane riddle contest, so it's possible.
And since there are no spiders in rolands world, it took on the equivalent.
its not pennywise or other creatures at the overlook, its ghost that have been given form by the "shine" people with the shinning power can be used like a battery to manifest physical forms for ghost if you read Dr sleep is fallows danny 30 years later and tells and shows what they are and how they can be trapped.
FERMINDAL I am sorry but your wrong, then feed off of the shinning power , now it has been shown in the books that when they are afraid the power comes out stronger making them (the ghost) stronger... As far as the king universe and other general mythos ghost can change shape.. but they are not a shape shifting spider monster from the space between dimensions like pennywise. To further show the point pennywise doesn't eat fear he eats flesh ..fear is what makes it taste better to him as was said by king. So to summarize ghost are not flesh eating spider monsters
Levi Tobias It has a true form in the deadlights
"It" came out nine years after "The Shining". There was no "It" when King wrote "The Shining". Considering the fact that King himself has stated that he unearths his stories while writing them, rather than creating them through careful planning, you can't even say that "It" was always part of the plan.
Everything you're seeing could only work as a retcon. That's it. Sure, it works for books that came afterwards, but not for books that came out nine years earlier. Not a chance.
3:54, no, the hotel gets stronger because Danny is like a battery.
King also has a thing for numbers. In the book, The Shining, the haunted hotel room is 217. The movie script changed it to a room number the hotel didn't have because they feared that they'd never be able to rent out room 217 if the movie used it. So, look for 217 across King's Universe.
It seems like a hard stretch that the kids in 'It' would have anything to do with having the Shining. There's no hint at all of it in his book. And, it seems that most discussions on King's Universe forget to include 'Blaze' under the pseudonym Richard Bachman. Blaze is in a mental institute for a while and it is mentioned that Henry Bowers (or the other thug) was in there with him.
Kubrick's Shining has very little to do with Stephen King's.
I find it hard to believe that Stephen King had a fully imagined “IT” in mind when writing THE SHINING.
Damn that’s a lot of books, I love that art so much, the one where you put hundreds of images together to make one large image. Love it. Magnifico
I'm a huge fan of IT and while I've gone through a lot of theories in my head, this one is probably one of my favorites so far. Now I want to rewatch a lot of these films.
Everything Stephen King has written is set in the same universe. It is NOT the same being that is in the Overlook. It's one of many minions of the Dark that reaches out to attack beings in our dimension. Your homework....Quit watching movies. And read the books. The main villain in the Kingverse is the Crimson King, followed by his lackey Flagg. Pennywise barely rates in the main picture. It is just a really good book.
I agree. Their evidence is very weak, very circumstantial. Based on what they've presented, you could literally tie any and all of King's stories into 'It.' Truth is, ALL of his stories are tied to 'The Dark Tower.' As you said, you'd get that if you read the books.
My only disagreement with you is that 'It' is a good book. I've never felt it worked.
I can understand that. I like the book, but it feels too long. And the first half, to me, is definitely better than the last part.
Forgive my typo: I meant to write "'It' ISN'T a good book."
Thank you, He clearly didn't research.
Still loved when Ralf an old man who was tapped gave the Crimson King a black eye ... well guts him as a giant crimson catfish and pokes out his eye with an earing stud... sometimes the big boss is not that strong (insomnia )
In the new IT Chapter Two, the girl seems to have the Shining. She sees visions of other people's past and future. Not only this, but I'm the scene where she's almost drowning in the toilet stall and all these characters are trying to break in the door, one of them yells "Heeeere's Johnny!"
Bev & Ritchie showing up in '63 genuinely made me gasp. It was like bumping into old friends.
If anyone feels bad and is upset /concerned about Jack Torrence you'll be happy to know that in the sequel to The Shining Doctor Sleep it is revealed shortly that he found peace in the afterlife. :)
That one line were Dan has a shotgun and then thinks about him, and smiles. I'm really curious how Dr.Sleep will turn out as a movie.
King has written so many books, and elements repeat over the course of them. Some may have shared universe qualities, but others are just recurring themes.
His multiverse uses recurring themes as part of the fabric of its worlds.
You must be a yoga teacher because DAMN that was a stretch.
There is one gap in this theory...Pennywise wouldn't have let Danny and his mother go. The fear would be too sweet for him to pass up especially after Jack died.
Only problem is that The Shining was written well before King even had ideas for It. King's connected storylines are the epitome of retroactive continuity. He did not plan any of these connections, just made it up as he went along.
That doesnt matter in my opinion. He IS the author. And yes...while King had no concept of IT back then, he clearly sees it now and has admitted to it. Im from the school that the author is right
Matthew Seader j
ppl been making shared universes since before ancient Greece. It hasn't been new for millennia.
I mean, King obviously took universe sharing cues from Lovecraft.
The person from Tommyknockers that spots IT while passing through basically saw a psychic imprint.
I'm really enjoying your videos.
Doctor Sleep pretty much takes this whole theory apart. It's explained rather well what the evil in the overlook is.
If you've noticed, this video does not use footage from The Shining Mini-series, nor does it use IT's mini-series. Danny and Wendy reacts differently in the mini-series toward Jack. And the mini-series is closer to the book, which allows more connections between The Shining and Doctor Sleep. In IT: The mini-series, Georgy was not in a heavy rainstorm (The rain stopped for short time), when Pennywise was manifesting, so the weather condition connections are not exactly correct.
3 words to tear this theory down: 27 year cycle.
Read the book!
Tim Curry's preference of IT is still way better and more terrifying.
Jack Torrance’s hair style and wicked smile looks like the new Pennywise’s design imo
I always thought that the Shining abilities develop in children who suffer from abuse (either domestic, sexual, psychological, etc.) and is triggered by a final breaking point. I also think the Shining can be a sort of catch-all for most of the protagonists in King’s supernatural novels, that intense trauma activates it as an empowering defense mechanism (King’s nothing if not good at allegory, so the Shining is literally a manifestation of PTSD). Looking at trauma as being a trigger for the Shining, Jack is subtextually implied to be consistently violent against Danny; all of the Losers Club kids deal with shitty home lives and constant bullying; Carrie discovers her powers after one extremely traumatic event; all of the survivors in The Stand are psychically linked to Mother Abigail and the Walkin Dude (almost as if having the ability to Shine is what allowed them to survive). I’m sure there are other examples, too.
i figured the shining was a short hand term used in the film of the same name. u also forgot charlie from Fire Starter though its a little cop out but the idea still stands.
charlie had the abliitly of pyrokinisis from the start, near the end when she sees her dad murdered the ability seemed to of got a boost. though the chemical used may of just been a way to unlock. seem could be said of johny from Dead Zone though pysical trauma.
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger definitely applies here I think people always write the Losers Club off but they all exhibit the shine in varying degrees which is why they can sense how off Derry is it's wasn't and overactive imagination that allowed them to hurt Pennywise it was an intense need to want to a manifestation of all of their pain and suffering brought out their powers....
no the Shinning power is genetic as it was shown in the book Dr Sleep that fallows Danny 30 years in the future. the book total disproves this theory and the shinning power can manifest in many ways. But it has been shown that Jack and Danny and that people from family lines get the power passed down sometimes skipping generations. It also goes into that people are born with more or less of the power and children have more of it then adults do. The Shinning power can also be used like a muscle the more you use it the stronger you can make it let alone control it.
Greg you may be right but you are also wrong, you start off with "No" and go to explain why some get it and others don't (genetic) but that by no means proves that it can't be TRIGGERED by trauma.
The Shine is a consequence of having the same bloodline as Arthur Eld, who was the first Gunslinger, and King Arthur from the legends, and who has The Crimson King, Pennywise, Dandelo, and The Man In Black as direct descendants. Roland is also a descendant of Arthur Eld, and his extraordinary ablities with a revolver come from him being trained to use his Shine.
1:44 It always bugs me that they used an image from a battle in the American Civil War (Gettysburg I think) to illustrate dead bodies from the Derry explosion. I mean honestly.
Spongebob and Winnie the Pooh both represent the Seven Deadly Sins. Snowpiercer is the sequel to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Ferris Buller is Cameron Frye, Grease takes place in the afterlife and it's Marcellus Wallace's soul in the Briefcase in Pulp Fiction, or not...
King's philosophy has always been that evil is in our own psyches, not an external force, and that the simple act of resisting it defeats it. In all his works, there is no external power that is exerted against evil. Evil is defeated when the protagonist(s) defy it with true belief in the power of good.
Only one of the "Losers" would need a proficient shine. The close bond between the group of friends would allow the club's other members to manifest their own unique talents as they absorb and redirect the latent psychokinetic energy.
King set a similar scenario in Dreamcatcher.
JackDManheim on point💫
Why use the version of The Shining that Stephen King is very vocal about hating, but is the original movie, but not use the original It?
Nicole Grace I was wondering the same thing. Best guess is iconography- the new release of It is all over youtube, substantially moreso than the original, while the original version of the Shining is more iconic than the miniseries version.
I had read that Kubrick didn't like King's book and King didn't like Kubrick's movie.
The subliminal messages in Kubricks "the shining" is what it makes it so much fun to watch.
There is no "original IT" theres a 1990 miniseries and 2017 film. Just like theres a Shining 1980 film and 90's Shining miniseries. It 2017 is NOT a remake.
@@titod.7012 what about the book?
The most likely shining theory I've seen is that Wendy is having a mental breakdown and hallucinating alot of Jack's actions of losing his mind.
The one thing that none of these Shining theories NEVER address is that Jack has the "shine" to him. He just doesn't know it or believe it. That's the significance of Mr. Halloran saying this to Danny in the beginning of the movie. That's why the only two people who can see the phenomena going on around them in the hotel are Jack and Danny. With Jack more than likely having genetically passed this on to his son.
As someone who grew up in a haunted house, locks don't mean shit to ghosts my friend...
I hear that...
Yeah but unless someones been there they never believe
Supernatural events are not commonly talked enough about for there to be many experts of credible standing. If a soul is Strong enough to resist death why cant open it doors. Logic dont apply to paranormal shite.
You didn't grow up in a haunted house because ghosts don't exist.
Did the easter bunny also visit you?
Why not?
"'Overlooks' the fact..."
*Chuckle*
More importantly the Dark Tower links all of King's work.
The Shining is mentioned in Misery (the book not the movie) when Annie tells Paul that there's not much in the town of Sidewinder except a feed store, gas station, and a side road that winds up through the mountains to the spot where "that creepy old hotel used to be before the caretaker went insane and burned it down."
This is all very creative and imaginative *_BUT,_* despite King's universe having obvious connections all throughout, *_THERE IS ONE MASSIVE DETAIL THAT WAS STRANGELY "OVERLOOKED" AND ODDLY NEVER ONCE MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO_* which basically proves that Pennywise is *_NOT_* the being responsible for the events that happen in _'The Shining'_ and that is simply this:
_'The Shining'_ was written in the 70's and published in 1977, while _'IT'_ was published in 1986. Looking at those years, one can logically ask - How could Pennywise be responsible for the events that happen in _'The Shining'_ when King hadn't even *_thought_* up the character of Pennywise in 1977?
Not to mention, in the sequel novel to _'The Shining',_ _'Doctor Sleep',_ we are given a brief synopsis of what happened to the Torrance family back at the Overlook Hotel. If King had wanted Pennywise to have been seen as the entity being responsible for those events, why didn't he make that type of connection to _'IT'_ there as well?
Also, in _'The Shining'_ novel and made-for-TV-mini-series (I don't take Kubrick's film into account too much because Kubrick took too many liberties with the original story and he didn't really want the film to have a supernatural overtone as he didn't believe in that himself), we are clearly told that the spirits within the Overlook Hotel fed upon Jack Torrance's "shining" (through his alcoholism Note: it's not really acknowledged that Jack has the "shining" but, one can infer to this as he is susceptible to the entities in the Overlook just like Danny and Halloran) in order to get to his son, Danny, whose "shining" was stronger than his father's or Halloran's.
The more they fed and manipulated Jack, the stronger they got and the more they could manifest themselves in physical ways. This was why they could open locks eventually (though with great effort, which is another detail we hear mentioned in _'Dr. Sleep'_ if I'm not mistaken). This was also why they wanted to drain Jack in order to fully manifest themselves so they wouldn't need to depend on him anymore and could go after Danny themselves.
Last, for me personally, while I love the idea of there being connections all throughout King's body of works, I don't like the idea of Pennywise being the "puppetmaster" behind *_EVERYTHING_* that happens in it. I like having variety when it comes to the antagonists and protagonists in his stories. I think it would become very limiting to have Pennywise be the "main" villain all throughout the King macroverse. Don't get me wrong, Pennywise was a very cool antagonist and all but, making him be the one behind every instance of evil in everything is rather lazy and un-imaginative imho...
P.S. Just thought up another reason why this theory is highly unlikely - if Pennywise could leave Derry and cause havoc in other places, why didn't it go after the Losers when they moved away from Derry? After all, they would be the ones IT hated the most since they were the first ones to actually hurt it and almost kill it. If IT could travel all the way to Colorado, what kept it from following the Losers to their respective destinations after they left Derry?
Another detail mentioned in _'Dr. Sleep'_ is how Danny is able to capture the spirits of the Overlook and confine them. There is no mention of Pennywise or a clown or any other type of thing to associate with Pennywise...
Your assuming IT operates within the same time perception as humans. Its unclear how IT operates within time....or out for that matter. But all in all i agree with you.
Well you can't really site events from the movies because Stanley Kubrick took many liberties from the book and Stephen King actually hated the movie adaptation. You'd have to reference only the materials in the novels; but I'm sure there's some truth to it.
Exactly! There really isn't a Kubrick Universe.
Use the miniseries with Stephen Weber for Shining images. That one is true to the book
Seems like IT can be tied to The Shining. Pennywise did overtake Henry Bowers to get him to kill the same way that Jack was taken over in The Shining. You're right.. both events started with horrid weather.. a snowstorm & rainstorm. Hmmm. The Macroverse is too awesome.
I think it's a pretty big assumption that it's Pennywise herself interacting with the Overlook Hotel when there's no direct evidence for it, not even a suggestion. I also don't think it's beyond reason to believe that it was just the spirits who simply interacted with the physical world (if we're going with the interpretation that the ghosts are real, of course). Another example of a spirit doing this was when the former caretaker helped Jack clean his jacket in the bathroom. The bartender also does this when he pours and serves jack his drinks at the bar. The ghosts may not often interact with the physical world, but I think it's pretty clearly established that they are entirely capable of doing so. At most, there is an entity or entities like Pennywose trying to feed on Jack and Danny's shine. In fact, I would argue that some or all of the spirits there are like Pennywise in that they're supernatural beings that try to feed on people's shine and that only those with shine can normally see them unless these beings otherwise want to be seen. I thibk Dr. Sleep more than backs this up. It doesn't need to be Pennywise to be something or people who do things like Pennywise.
But hey, that's just a theory... THAT Film Theory! I would have went with a different name. I tried searching for the channel the other day and only got Film Theory videos. Really had to dig for this one. But hey, I am subbed, so as long as the videos show up in my feed, I'm happy. So glad you didn't make it a top 5 or 10 list... I like the actual video essay format.
Great theory that seems spot on. You refer to "It" as an "inter-dimensional being." I think people tend to literal-ize characters in stories, because they're easier to understand, talk about, and pass along (i.e. mythologies). However, have you considered that "It" may not be an actual being, rather a representation of an idea or human characteristic? Perhaps "It" represents the most base human fear--the fear that holds the weak back and causes the strong to rise to a challenge. I feel like King's characters represent human archetypes and the monsters represent human characteristics.
well if you read the book ( it sounds like you have not ) this is clearly wrong. the book have descriptions of It`s thought and a big ass spaceship!
In the Shining, the hotel drove Jack Torrance crazy specifically so he would kill his son Danny. The hotel wanted to keep Danny there forever as a victim because Danny had a powerful version of 'the Shine.' I don't think that the entity in the Overlook hotel is the same entity as It, but this could explain why It was going after the specific kids in the 'Loser's Club.' It is said that they had 'the Shine' as well, so perhaps It wanted to consume them to gain that 'Shine' power.
Jack's "stigmata" theory of Danny's injuries is supportable.
your theory acts like the dark towers never happened. we all know the answers are in those books about all connections. why make up strange theories when we already know exactly what something is? you really should try to actually read some of the books instead of only watching the movies.
But hey, that's just a rip off. A channel name rip off.
D Bone LMAO 😂😂😂
You can't rip off words that are in the dictionary....
Really? Huh. I guess I should start a wrestling channel on TH-cam and call it "I Wrestle With Wregret". Or maybe "Wrestling Talk". Or "What? Culture Wrestling".
D Bone Except this one has actually good content.
Luke LaFave Then it would be exactly like the other one.
Refreshing to hear a more relaxed delivery from Jules. More of this please!
I'm waiting for you to investigate Randall Flagg. Now, that one should be fun!
Its gonna be a long winter................
Excellent analysis guys! I found more evidence in Doctor Sleep that explains how Pennywise is one of interdimensional creatures that feed off children with the shining. I can't remember exactly, but I think the prologue has Dick Haleron tell Danny of how he saw Pennywise in Darry and other creatures like those in The Overlook. I loved how you brought in more of Stephen King's novels to support your theory. Going straight to Doctor Sleep does feel like a bit of a cheat, so seeing how you pieced it together was awesome!
I'm looking forward to more film theory videos from you guys. I love your work and insight into movies. The calmer analysis on movies is also refreshing from your other movie videos. It's a great balance! 💓💓💓
Laverne Blaszczyk I haven't read Sleeping Beauties! You've got me curious. Thanks for the suggestion. I loved Doctor Sleep, but I also haven't read many of King's books. Then characters in DS did feel one-dimensional to me, but I just got sucked into The Shining mythology. Based on your comment, I'm thinking I'm missing out on some really awesome characters in his universe. I'll have to check out Sleeping Beauties. Thanks! 😁
A thorough reading of both The Shining and Doctor Sleep completely debunks this theory. Jack and Danny possess a “shine” or a strong supernatural sensitivity. This is what awakens the evil of the Overlook hotel. They work as a battery, this empowers the spirits and allows them to interact with the outside world with increasing regularity. Their ability to do this is also contingent on the power of the spirit.
A hibernating gaurdian.
When compiling your notes for this video, you left out some crucial information regarding The Shining. It should be mentioned in this video. Seems like what you're really saying is that the two books/movies parallel each other rather than share the same entity. I'm not going to disprove the idea mentioned, but what drives the hauntings at the Overlook Hotel is the fact that the building is built over a native burial ground. This should sound very familiar to any Stephen King fan, because burial grounds have come up several times, Pet Cemetery included.
The 1990 version of Stephen King's It does a very good job as to explain what the entity really is. We have yet to see how the movie version does this, but the mini-series had a spider-like creature that had the power to change form, so it's not limited to just a creepy looking clown. What probably happened in the 1986 book was that the creature came out of hiding and saw a circus in action, and more than likely attacked everyone in the tent, but when the creature saw the clowns, and how they fascinated the children, the creature probably realized that by taking the form of a clown, it could get to it's prey much easier, which makes Pennywise the Clown, that much more creepier. Not only that, but if watching either or, movie or mini-series, you'll notice that there's only one picture, in the archives that shows anything circus related. This suggests that the film makers either did this for a scare tactic, or enhances an idea from the book, that the entity is trying to erase it's own recorded history.
On one final note, between the two film pieces, at this point, I much prefer the mini-series. The piece has aged well, it's a part of pop culture, I've got a picture of someone dressed as Pennywise at a Comic-Con event, Tim Curry nailed his role as the dancing clown, all the adults look legit for their children counterparts, (Annette O'Tootle is a nock-out, by the way), and Tommy Lee Wallace directed the whole thing. If anyone knows their horror film history, you should know that his mentor in the business is John Carpenter, the very creator of the Halloween franchise that included Michael Myers. If you actually check the credits with the first two Halloween sequels, I'm pretty sure Wallace was executive producer.
Can't wait to see more of this relaxed approach you guys are taking!
Very interesting
Jack wasnt locked in a bank vault, he was in a dry stock room. The lock is just a latch handle with a locking pin. Technically there should be a way to unscrew the lock from the inside, they have the same thing on restaurant freezers and coolers.
Another theory is not only Pennywise, but the Man in Black from the Dark Tower, The Dad from the Mist, Carrie, and also a Owner of Cujo have all also checked in to the Overlook Hotel in the Shining!!!
jules from what culture?
no. not even a little bit.
@This is SPARTA!!!!! oooooo he mad
Krista Caswell well his name is “pissed off alpha male”...
@Pissed off Alpha male look man I just dont agree with this theory at all. theres no need to make it personal and get all butthurt. if you've read Doctor Sleep youll know why this doesn't work. I just get annoyed when people theorize about the King universe from the movies.
@Pissed off Alpha male I'm illiterate so I have no dog in this fight brother
@@kristakacz There's more of a Shining tie in to the Dark Tower than there is to IT. Danny's a breaker. A tie in to IT has to be manufactured, the tie in to The Dark Tower is plainly evident.
Over read many King books and Misey confirms that the shining and misery are related as Annie Wilkes, in the book, openly talks about the overlook and how a family got killed up there. These, if I remember, are in the 130 pages range.
Interesting, but in the film scatman basically tells Danny that whatever he sees in the hotel isn't real and can't hurt him. Clearly IT can hurt and kill, and rather enjoys it. It could just be his way of keeping Danny from being afraid, but if he is directly connected to Derry he would presumably know the difference between the spirits and IT.
Stretch.
Interesting, as usual.
I remember, though, that The Shining had its own back story, including some PC exploited Indians or their sacred lands (weren't all their lands sacred?).
Take a gander at Rob Ager's analyses of The Shining. It coordinates such things as an alternate Jack encountered upon Real Jack's arrival at the hotel, and minor evidence such as Jack's reaction to walking past mirrors.
Your video may get me to watch the newer version of "It." I'd avoided - er - it, since the first one sucked so badly, despite a good job by Tim Curry and the scrumptiousness of Annette O'Toole.
In several books, similar beings to IT are introduced. Dandelo in The Dark Tower and The Outsider in the book of the same name are similar monsters to IT and thrive on emotional extremes. Dandelo feeds on laughter to the point of driving his victims mad and The Outsider feeds on sorrow. So there may be a monster at the overlook that is a relative to IT.
If this was true, which is widely improbable (It does not have that kind of power and it is not fond of such convoluted plans and it is not nomadic - it is, in a sense, Derry born and breed) - it would make the plot of "The Shining" less compelling. One of the most horrific aspects of the Overlook Hotel is that it is not clear what is responsible and it would also make It look like a schmuck for dying the way it did.
It's what we call: overanalysing. Every artist works on a mindset. Take the paintings of Edward Hopper: same universe, different persons represented, different places but all seems to come from the same world. But it don't means that Hopper link conscientiously all his paintings.
Stephen King actually does have his works set in the same universe and has the same villians show up more than once. Unfortunately, this theory doesn't hold water since it's based off the the Kubrick film and not the actual book by King.
This shit happens when culture overemphasises consuming rather than inspiring, the consumer can't come up with their own work so will overanalyse almost anything to make it tidy and understandable.
This theory is bad
Sorry dude
Can you tell me why?
My theory is that King sees IT inside of himself, his dark shadow, and writes these stories of children fighting back because his inner child is afraid of his beast nature fully consuming him. He secretly wants that child to win, but persistently lives in the beast's lair and is tempted by his stories of the macabre to continue giving them life, stoking the fears of mankind for generations.
Problem is, Pennywise has been shown CONSISTENTLY to linger in a certain area and that's Derry. He's been there since the town's founding and never left, only emerging to feed every 27 years.
Simply put, whatever physical entity was at the Overlook wasn't Pennywise plus when the film takes place he's still hibernating.
Another channel with the WC guys? Bring it on. Happy days.
That'd be cool, if his books tie in together, to elude to a supreme "Dark Force" behind all the chaos.
Desperation, The Regulators, and Storm of the Century, to name a few, seem in line with the theme of an "alien" malefactor.
Enjoy hearing your theories.
Pothead Mike all of King's books are connected. He says so in the Dark Tower. I'd guess that the "supreme dark force" is the Crimson King from DT.
anna banana - That's VERY clever.
But to keep reinventing the same villain and not get boring. Kudos
I read the Dark Tower books soo long ago. Loved them...
But I hardly remember it.
Haven't seen the new Dark Tower.
Hear it's pretty bad.
Pothead Mike I finished the Dark Tower a couple of years ago so it's still decently fresh in my mind. It was also my first time reading Stephen King. (Reading Salem's Lot currently.)
I saw the movie, but it's VERY loosely based on the books. It was too short. Not enough time for character development. They just shoved a bunch of aspects from all the books into a 90-minute movie. Disappointing for sure. (I still didn't hate it tho!)
anna banana - I've read several of his books and I haven't been disappointed having read one.
With that being said. "Bag of Bones" was the one I liked the least. The movie was even worse.
Yeah, that's the problem with books to movies. Time. A movie can't flesh out a book properly.
There's two "Salem Lot".
A 1979 CBS mini series.
And a 2004 TNT mini series.
Both weren't bad especially for TV.
What did you think about Stanley Kubrick's, "The Shining"?
And the remake of "IT"?
i've read around 50ish of this books and only dislike the girl who loved tom gordon, but yes they are all connected some how, either character wise or characters speaking of evens that happen in other books. i noticed this before i read the dark tower and felt kinda dumb after i read the dark tower because i just thought i was looking into something that was not there lol. glad to see more king fans new and old, love his books so very much
Jules this channel has got to be your best one. Can’t wait to see what other content you pump out bro!
Remember when they tried to link everything in the James Bond universe to Blofeld in Spectre? That was a terrible idea! It's fine for King to leave little easter eggs in his books for fans to discover, but he's just messing with us. Any serious attempt by King to merge everything into one huge horror story, with one villain, would lessen the power of the individual stories. The best horror, I believe, leaves something unexplained, and in the shadows.
At least this guy's voice isn't as annoying as MatPat's.
Robin but not nearly as insightful or smart as Mat. Or funny. Or just interesting
I never found Mat funny to be honest. His content is great though.
Insightful or smart? Neither of these words describe Matpat. Just watch his For Honor episode. So many flaws and once you catch on you see the same in all his stuff.
David Roberson I stand by what I said. And if you have only one eg out of 100s of video,I dont mind a few lame videos once in a while. And he is apparently great since this dude is trying to trick us into thinking he is Mat with the name of his channel.
Hem Laish map pat isn’t funny his content is made to appear that way therefore children don’t click off ads and reach all 10 minutes.
Seriously. That film theory is the name you are going with?
The overlook hotel essentially "recruits" Jack so he can feed Danny to the evil in the hotel. The entire point of the book is that the evil in the hotel wants Danny. The same evil manifests again in the sequel Doctor Sleep, where Danny is an adult who has full use of the shining. This is why King hated the movie. It dismisses major plot points. If you read Doctor Sleep after only watching the movie you'd realize just how much was missing in the film.
Its interesting how Beverlys blood drenched bathroom is kinda what grown Danny sees in Doctor Sleep with "REDRUM" over the sink...
Those kids from IT can Shine. That's my head cannon and no one is taking it from me
Christian Rodriguez pretty much some of them (the losers club) exhibit it in different cases degrees.
They can its in the book. All hail space turtle.
Yeah they can shine. All they have to do is run a train on Bev first.
No, they can't. The only reason they have any type of "insight" or premonition is because of "The Other". None of them really know what's going to happen naturally on their own, they are aided by other forces or rituals. That's not the same as "shining"...
joe mahaffey that's a different kind of shine
I believe Jack choked Danny after the fatherly love scene.
Then why did Danny tell his mom that an old lady tried to strangle him in Room 237, which really did happen in the book, which I know isn't that similar to its film adaptation? Even Kubrick himself confirmed that the supernatural presence of the hotel really was there.
The reason Pennywise hates children is that all the strongest breakers are children. Roland talks about the beams, and how each has an animal 'god' (they fight shardik the bear). One of the already broken beams was the one for the Spider (which in the book is Pennywise true form) so it kinda makes sense this mad god, it's beam broken by children, would want to make them suffer.
If the theory had been that the "shining" power connected IT and THE SHINING, I'd be more likely to agree. As many have already pointed out, the books designate separate entities for the Overlook and Derry hauntings, and both are beings limited to specific regions. Quite possibly they are related and share characteristics, such as a need to flavor its prey with fear. Given how long IT has been trapped on Earth, it's even possible that the Overlook Horror is one of the offspring of IT.
Guys, film theory is a channel that exists
AND
Matpat did a better version of this theory months ago
If you want to make a theory channel, then just give it a better name and try make theories that aren't done on film theory
@Pissed off Alpha male yeah he does
th-cam.com/video/IfuKFPMZmyU/w-d-xo.html
This is a pretty big reach.
Just reading the comments and figured I should point this out.. King’s stories are rarely finished. They are constantly being tweaked and have things added to them occasionally. The man himself has said this hundreds of times. So I would imagine a newer publication of a book like The Shining or It would have something different about it. If you read the books decades ago, you might not have read the same exact one someone else has.
The problem with this theory is that you mix up the books and the films for It and The Shining. We know for a fact that Kubrick specifically differed his film from Steven King's novel. So he didn't keep any of the connections from the It book and Shining book. There are many other themes in The Shining that Kubrick focuses on and not making his film connect with a separate book of the author he deliberately defied.
Exactly. Selectively picking and choosing and mixing up the films and books doesn't make for much of a foundation for the theory.