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DC HATES Tim Drake Robin
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2023
- Tim Drake has been heavily underutilized and mishandled under the creative vision of DC Comics Editorial. Pre-New 52, Tim Drake had an established character as Red Robin, serving as a member of the BatFamily alongside Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, and Damian Wayne, who was the Robin at that time. He also played a prominent role in the Teen Titans and Young Justice. The New 52 introduced an entirely new DC Universe with a new Superman and Justice League, but it also diminished much of what made Tim Drake's character so special. The third Robin hasn't seen many grand adaptations outside of the Batman Arkham series and Gotham Knights game.
#batman #robin #batmanarkhamknight #gothamknights #dccomics #dcu #dc #timdrake #nightwing #redhood #superman #justiceleague
Not just Tim Drake, but mostly everyone in his generation like Conner Kent, Bart Allen, and Cassie Sandsmark. After the New52, they have been treated like afterthoughts and are ignored in favored of other characters like Jonathan Kent, Yara Flor, and Ace West. Even the last two young justice books, treated those characters so bad and missed the point of their development in the original young justice comics, Geoff John’s run on teen titans, their own related stories.
I hate Bart Allen
@@yarc9Why?
@@zemox2534 he sucks
Young Justice was done so dirty. YJ Dark-whatever-I-dont-care was a horrible run- mischaracterized everyone, made me want to die reading it. Core Four deserves better :(
Yuh there literally throw away characters and need to be treated better fr but yuh the new 52 ruined these characters
I always like to believe that, without Tim Drake, there's no Bat Family. Dick proved to Batman that you can suffer from crime without giving in to the dark. Babs taught Batman that he can let outsiders in. However, Jason taught Batman the cost of it all. Were it not for Tim, Bruce likely would've cast everyone he loves out of his life, but it was thanks to Tim that Batman got a whole new network of spies and informants, and it's thanks to him that Batman learned how to operate with others, thus resulting in the Bat Family.
tim is robin and the introduction of damian hurt his relevance
They just made him bisexual and didn't know what else to do with him after that. The fit he had Pre-New 52 was really sick, and they really leaned into him being a detective and not just a vague "computer pro like a lot of other modern series would do with their smart characters. The New-52 origin also just paints him in a much dumber light. Just makes him an irresponsible jerk to his actual family.
They not only turn him bisexual. They also gave him a whole ass character arc of him walking away from the Robin title.... didn't know what to do with that, threw that out the fucking window AND then turned him bisexual.... And once again didn't know what to do with him.
What's wrong with it? Constantine is bisexual too
It sucks. He's my favourite Robin. Maybe even favourite Bat-family member, and just no-one talks about him. But Tim is great.
Tim literally saved the robin brand and became the ideal sidekick. If you look at how modern sidekicks are characterised in media, you see a lot of influence from Tim.
And now we are stuck with nepo baby Damian.
How does Tim remotely influence sidekicks?
@@kwayneboy1524I guess he's more of an equal to his main hero. Like Bucky Barnes in the MCU.
@@chocov1233 I doubt it
@@kwayneboy1524he was tho. He wasn’t Batman’s sidekick, he was the first Robin to be his partner. He did patrols mostly alone
DC does Tim so dirty in everything smh
And I hate DC for what they've done to Tim Drake Robin.
Tim drake is at least a character. Conner Kent his best friend does barely exist anymore DC is trying to forget his existence
fr Jonathan popped in got aged up nd now dc is just like “Superboy? Who tf is that?”
It makes me bloody mad when people say that the worst think that happened to Tim is that he was "retconned" as bi when he is literally neglected, forgotten and literally divided into different Robins EVEY SINGLE TIME
I thought for sure that Tim was gonna go back to resemble his Pre-New 52 self once DC Rebirth happened. Boy was I wrong..
I certainly hoped.
He largely does. Not fully, but way closer to that than to the shitty N'ew 52 version. The problem in recent times is almost entirely a lack a page time.
This really sucks, because Tim is my favorite Robin, as well as my favorite Batfamily member overall.
I also really love his Red Robin comics.
Its not even like making him have a boyfriend was inherently bad, it was just written really badly and with bad intentions. They made him the 'gay' robin to spark controversy to get people reading and then ignored the rest of his character. Like sure make him have a boyfriend but just don't make it his whole character and story.
Agreed, also they lowkey sacrificed his relationship with steph bc they didnt even break-up (ik that in comics usually they do that as in relationships can take 50 turns in 1 single issue but still) and his boyfriend just popped out from nowhere??? Imo it would be better bisexual representation if they made him come out to his girlfriend stephanie about being bisexual and he yk still was her boyfriend bc hey, bisexuals can date their opposite genders and still be bisexuals. That would also solve the whole making his whole new personality for lazy writers to just make him obligatory queer representation
But alas thats just my opinion, sorry for ranting in your replies lmao
Also, if you see him and Jon Kent, who is also Bi, are drawn blushing and with more delicate features.
Look how the massacred our boy 😔
DC hates their history and legacy so much at this point. Overall, the New 52 and Rebirth were a huge mistake
@@ProfessorVengeance71-nr1jjBut didn't Rebirth bring back Post-Crisis on Infinite Earths Superman and Lois and introduce Jon Kent II and Post-Crisis Wally West?
But also they then proceeded to prematurely age up Jon Kent II and ruin his character, soooo nevermind.
@@chocov1233 Two distinctly different eras of "Rebirth" - the actual DC Rebirth era spearheaded by Geoff Johns, and the "Bendis is Coming!" era of Dan DiDio wresting back overall creative control again and setting up Generation Five before finally getting fired just in time for comic store lockdowns to delay and abort that crap.
my only hope for Tim is the new dcu movies, I was kinda pissed off that their starting with damien in the batman movie out of all robins but im staying optimistic and hoping that Tim is included and maybe gets his own movie later on as Red robin or something
i hope he gets a tv show adapting the red robin comics tho that would probably be a while Into the universe
@@darthrevan5976I wish. But I'm gonna have to expect the worst and hope for the best. Even if Superman Legacy is good, that doesn't mean that Batman The Brave and The Bold will be. I liked Man of Steel and Wonder Woman (2017) a lot, but I quite dislike Batman v Superman's story and Suicide Squad (2016).
Also I find it odd that Gunn decided to use the 5th Robin, who's +10 years old and was conceived during Batman's superhero career, yet this New DCEU is giving us a Superman who just started his superhero career in Metropolis. Is there gonna be a huge age gap like in the old DCEU?
@chocov1233 I really hope not I feel like they could still have him have damian and only have an age gap of a couple of years like mabye in this universe Bruce met Talia earlier or something
Having hope will just make the outcome hurt more. I’m going in hating and believing there’s no jt or Tim.
not to mention in the DCAU, Tim is an almagram of Tim and Jason (jason's costume and personality, Tim's name and origin.....plus him being tortured by the Joker is totally from Jason's fate and becoming the Joker kinda forshadowed Jason becoming Redhood
“Nobody CARES about Tim Drake!” - TTG Robin
Make a Gotham High comicbook, where Tim Drake, spoiler, orphan and other bat families are protecting different parts of Gotham while juggling high school. Or let Tim Drake have his own base of operations where he is the hero.
I even like his solo Robin comics.. he is like a lightweight batman who have to always outsmart his enemies
Tim Drake is my favorite comic character. I have no issue with Tim being bisexual, but I do have issues of how they handled it. He was actually still with Stephanie when the Urban Legends writer made him get a boyfriend. And the solo run really altered his personality drastically. It's also that bisexual characters in media aren't allowed to date the opposite sex, so I unfortunately won't see my favorite comic couple anytime soon.
You don't have issue with your favorite comic character getting retconned to push an absurd political agenda?
@@youcantbeatk7006maybe people can deal with shit better then most
@@kwayneboy1524Having a higher tolerance for bad writing is a flaw.
@@youcantbeatk7006 sounds like you can't handle opposite opinions is your flaw mate. What is and isn't bad writing for some is subjective when it comes to retcons and heck if a Tim Drake fan likes this then at least someone is having fun.
@@youcantbeatk7006 dude, bisexuality isn't political, besides its always been implied, i'm pretty sure that one of the earlier writers for Tim stated he was intentionally bi coded
Tim's my favorite DC character. And of all the bad things DC did to him, making him Bi isn't one of them, and it doesn't bother me at all. When I think of Robin the last question on my mind is who he's having sex with.
When Damian is a better character then tim we have a problem.
Thats what happens when writers care about one character but not the other as well.
The problema is.... He's not. Damian just appears in a few animated shows. Dick in Teen Titans It's a copy of Tim in the comics.... Pants, Bo staff, hair, personality, gadgets. Idiots know this? No. Damian is good for those who read skipping dialogue ballons and overestimates him for being "Batman's son"
Our only hope is that Tim gets to be a main character in an elseworld comic or Animated/Live adaptation, the main comics Gotham cast are over populated as shit popping out redundant clones every second and game developers don't really read Tim's prominent books
TIM DRAKE : "Used but DC got it wrong. Abandoned and retconned thanks to
bad writing." ( Mint Hunter Comics )
Wish that one day we'd get an animated series taking through Batman's life with each of the four Robins and in that they expand on Tim Drake's character.
I think we can all agree that Titians butcher everyone they put in that show
Oh yeah. The best robin in my opinion and I came in the comic world late with Damian already with the shiny title. He was Batman's partner. Had a business relationship first. Called out Bruce on his bullshit. Quit Robin twice... I loved how with Tim and his generation of heroes mostly, it honestly felt like growing up with them. Young Justice 1998 holds so much space in my shelf. Tim Drake was already on a path of independence. A path that was forced and forged with grief, grit along with success. Red Robin was his new albeit I thought of it as an temporary identity. Either way he was walking out on Robin. Reluctantly accepted Damian to be hia successor and was ready to forge ahead but then New 52 happened. Did a complete 360 of his character, ruined him and tuck him on the sidelines relegating him.as the 'smart one' and tech support. I was really hoping they kill him off just so they couldn't ruin him further and even that was temporary. That's not even the worst part. Jason and Damian being the new shiny favorite characters were given focus but was not done justice at all. Jason became a mercenary, when his main goal was cleaning up crime alley, damn the collateral damage was scrapped to be made an anti-hero. They strapped him with Dick's teammates and it just made me face palm cause one of the reason he was voted to be killed off was lazy writing (making him a copy of Dick Grayson). Damian's character development is constantly forgotten and they make him so OP like what the hell?! Don't get me started on the batgirls else I'd be ranting all day. Either way they did so many characters wrong, from Kon-El, Cassie Sandsmark, Bart Allen, Wally West, Lobo etc.
As for him being Bi. I don't have an issue about him being Bi. I hated how they went through about it. Tim and Steph just got back together. If they wanted Tim to be bi during this. Maybe don't break them up on the side? Or be with some rando? An acknowledgement of his feelings for Conner who he remembered after getting his memories back pre new 52 (and since his Future self kept yapping about saying sorry to Conner) would be enough. No need for the break up. I'm just another comic book reader when I say Tim and Conner has potential and I can see it. But to break him and Steph for a classmate no one even remembered (Ives was more memorable) just so he could date the same sex is dumb. They even made a Super Bi. Thought DC was getting through it with Tim and Conner but no... It's Jon😂. And as for the current comics. They killed and revived Jason again. DC writers are running out of braincells.
I agree. Tim is such a dynamic character. He was always my favorite Robin.
most based video on this platform, 90s tim drake is peak
i agree that New 52 has done actually nothing for Tim. all his character development? GONE 🙁 all his interesting backstory? GONE 😔
I love bisexual Tim Drake though, and it’s definitely been there since the 80s YJ run, but other than that they need to change his character. Give him a new name, because writers *really* like putting Tim in the robin limbo
When is the ideas I've seen thrown around online is Tim Drake becoming the new doctor midnight and joining or at the very least interacting with the JSA
Bisexual Tim Drake is a good idea in concept but an execution not so much and a majority of the fandom really don't like him and his relationship with the character of Bernard
Who many find to be a very boring character and not at all that interesting to read about
Also DC really doesn't know how to write bisexual characters because we've only seen both Tim and Jonathan only date guys, we haven't seen them date girls yet imao
DC Comics broke up both Tim and Stephanie
The abandoned the concept of Jonathan dating Yara Flor.
@@naquangreen2192 Dr Midnite tim would be cool, but I’d like to mention Tim has dated lootsss of girls lol
you’re right about Tim’s bisexuality not being written well though, but I know a lot of his fans like him- just not Bernard. hell, one of the most popular things about Tim in the fandom is the fact he’s shipped with Kon which, honestly, makes sense
but he really does feel like he’s being written as a diversity hire
@@naquangreen2192honestly i think they shouldve just had the relationship with conner kent and tim, instead of bernard
@kadegetslaid634 THISSS DC was too chicken to go through with it. TimKon's been shipped for a long time, and they at the very least could've given a more interesting character to pair him with as his first same sex relationship 😒
@bemiatto67 EXACTLY!!!! I feel like they kinda half assed it, and haven't done much with it since
Tim Drake was my favorite Robin so to see how DC has treated him in recent years, in more ways than one, is a massive shame.
I feel bad for Tim, overall I consider him second favourite Robin after Dick.
Tim and Dick as character deserve so much more respect from the General Public. Comics Fans do respect Dick as Nightwing more, so in there Tim deserves su much better, but overall both have been made Dirty, Tim being mostly fogotten and put aside, and Dick many times being reduce to a "Himbo" character talking more about his looks and the "ha, he funny" apect rather than him as a person.
Tim Drake is legit my favorite Robin. I still remember when they dropped the Neil Adams Tim Drake announcement in my local newspaper as the new Robin. I haven't touched any of the new stuff since they abruptly turned off the Red Robin year one style book they had going. I'm still salty.
Tim Drake began as the 3rd Robin. Then
he became Red Robin. But DC made him
The Gay Robin. Things steadily declined
when he turned into The Drake. Quack. Quack.
Afterwards, older Tim Drake goes PSYCHO as Batman Eternal and returns from the future to kill lesbian Batwoman and fairy child Superboy.
He also becomes Batman Beyond temporarily when Terry McGinnis unexpectedly dies. Now he is back
to being Robin or Red Robin again.
He´s not my favorite Robin, but he definetly needs his own mantle, his own friends and foes, etc. like Dick. Jason is also suffering a bit from the same problem
I think your idea of replacing Tim with his pre crisis self is going to create more problems. In fact, him being bi is not a problem, it´s just that his "identity crisis" is all he seems to be right now.
He needs to be far away from the Robin mantle imo
How would you fix Tim Drake's character and what type of mantle would you give him
An interesting idea that I've come across online is him becoming the new doctor midnight from the JSA
Having to move out of Gotham and interact with the JSA characters and Dr midnight.
@@naquangreen2192 I really liked the costume from a Tim Drake from another universed where he´s called "The Saviour", it looks like Red Robin, but not really
I´d have him travel through the world, building his own company and get his own rogues, all far from Gotham.
He´d be an excelent Detective, rivaling Batman, but also something unique like a master at chesmistry or something else. He´d continue to be Bi, there´s no problem in that, his only problem is his identity issues
@@davidhenriques4829
Choice of love interests for
Tim Drake
Civilian, Superhero and supervillain alike
The current version of Conner Kent is currently dating Miss Martian and also has a history of dating Cassandra sandsmark and Cassandra Cain.
@@naquangreen2192 I want Conner with Miss M., they have a lot in common. And I want Tim with either Steph of Bernand. But I prefer Steph
@@davidhenriques4829
I like miss m in the comics, especially when compared to her in the Young Justice TV show. I will not look past her actions from the second season and what she did to Connor
I just cannot believe that the writers would do that to both of their characters and expect audiences to be okay with their relationship and marriage in the fourth and final season.
It has felt like they’ve hated him for about 13 years.
I like Tim Drake, for me he is the best robin ever. I hope DC can find better solution for him
I hope too
I hope to
I love Tim Drake and have since day one and i absolutely love what they've done with him since 2021 and I always sensed there was an an aspect of his character right there just under surface just waiting for the moment to manifest it's self. As someone who came out in 2005 my bond and affection for Tim is even greater and i can relate to him even more if thats even possible.
Bro should’ve retired with Stephanie after the detective comics rebirth run, beats leaving him in limbo.
Tim drake is my favorite robin, and my favorite member of the bat family,is sad that one of my favorite characters is in a sad situation like this,i also like that the tim and stephanie are a couple, its one of my favorite couples in the comic...😢
And yet it’s the best Robin with the best suits 😂
I'm surprise you didn't include the return of the joker movie were the joker turn tim drake into him
I have a question Why the hell did Tim Drake go back as Robin?
That is a good question
As someone who reads comics casually I try to avoid tim drake ive only read him in the modern era and to ne he just seems bland and makeing him bi sexual just seemed like they couldnt be asked with the character to me other than being robin theres nothing to him wich i feel was started when dc retconned him into basically beconing jason todd
Rebirth got off to the right start with Drake but then they lost the plot
This is what I see is wrong with Tim trying to make Tim interesting is hard. I've said this before but Tim isn't interesting at all to most people. What about him stands out is his intelligence. That's not saying much since all of his Robins are geniuses he's just smarter. Getting trained by the walking Ivy League in Bruce basically adds 100 points to their IQ AT THE BARE MINIMUM. Tim doesn't have a traumatic past like dead/absent parents, has died, or was raised to be an assassin.
Damian (greatest project) has to overcome his assassin upbringing to be in line with his father. Jason (greatest failure) has to deal with deadbeat, drug addicted and then dead parents, his rage, murdering criminals and coming back from the dead with other issues. Dick’s (greatest success) parents are dead but he got over it. He has to deal with the fact that he doesn't want to be dark like his mentor being more a beacon of hope something Batman isn't.
Tim wants to be his partner. And there's nothing wrong about that but can they make it interesting. The reason why the others are more interesting is that they have some contrast from Batman that I named. Tim usually just gets along with Bruce more making his stories boring. Then according to most readers they put him with the boring Bernard which in turn tears down Tim even more.
From my experience mainly comic not casual fans like Tim and that's a small number.
Your problem is you do not read enough Tim Drake comics and just base your opinion on surface level details! Tim is more than just a genius. He is an optimistic young man who believed in Batman and his mission and chose to help him. He wasn't handed the mantle of Robin. He earned it!!! Seriously, it is stupid misconceptions like yours that ruined Tim! Damien is just a mini Bruce but more murderous. Even Jason Todd is more likeable and interesting than him. Also, just to prove how £^^&&&&& is ignorant, you truly are, Tim Drake has loads of bloody fans, not just a small number so kindly speak 4 yourself and do not assume everyone has your stupid opinion. Tim is a great character, and I am f#%^^^ "sick of idiots like you, Didio, Taylor, and everyone else disrespecting him out of your own ignorance!! Tim has disagreed with Bruce many times or did you miss the part where Bruce refused to let Tim be Robin and He had to prove himself?
He was the first Robin to get his own ongoing comic and faced his own rogues gallery. He is as cunning Dick, compassionate as Bruce, and as tough as Jason. Tim Drake is bloody interesting, and if you can't understand that, then you don't £^&&&&&^^ understand Tim! So take your bloody misconceptions somewhere else! Oh, and by the way, not every hero needs a tragic backstory to be interesting.
Actually I never read the comics and I’m a fan of Tim Drake
No, what's wrong with Tim are bad writers who can't tell stories about two characters with a healthy relationship. Tim getting along with Bruce is far from a fault and if anything makes him stand out as he is the perfect partner. Someone who can complete Bruce and understand him on a level the other Robins can't.
Trauma, tragedy and angst aren't necessary to have a good character.
Tim's most unique and interesting trait was his progress as a character, he starts out as a bright eyed kid who gets to be the sidekick of his role model whose life starts to darken the longer he works as a hero, he has a reverse heroes journey where his parents die the longer he continues being a hero.
@HELLO_KORO I never knew this until now. Thanks pal
tim was my favourite robin, his entire character just being thrown away and replaced with some kid that likes kissing girls and boys, mostly boys (not in a gay way though) because lgbtq is a thing now
Been a thing since the 80s
The thing about Tim he has the worst origin story out of all Robins. Once Damian appeared I believe writers had no use for Tim
Tim has the best origin. Not only he is the most relatable of the Robins but he proves that anyone can be a hero. Unlike the other Robins Tim isn’t (originally) driven by tragedy but judge by his desire to be a good person and help people.
The sentiment as a comic normie is that Tim is the forgettable one
Tim was originally the normal of the Robins, but to be honest the company attempts to modernize the character is sad and desperate and I rather they just kill the character off and let him just die.
same here to twin
And listen I can't stand damien worth a danm but i would rather much tolerate his bratty egotistic ass in the new DCU and teen Titans james gunn movie if that meant we dont got put up with Forced Woke shit with tim gay ass
Literally made him gay for the sake of character development
Tim is my least favourite Robin
(tim drake was closely associated with chuck dexon
Bernard dowd was created by bill Willingham
both are Conservative leaning creators who are on the pits with the mainstream
now tim and Bernard are dating
so i am the only thinking this wasn't an accident?)
this is why they hate tim and turned him gay
other writer has had there hands on tim and hinted at him not being straight for a while
The writers aren't schemers looking to spite Chuck, they're just idiots that throw crap on the wall and see what sticks
They should make Bernard Dowd
the new Gwen Stacey.
@@chazarcola7639 i will start a riot if i see tim woke ass or his boyfriend in the DCU and i will make james gunn life a living hell if they do ts
Tim drake being gay has always been a thing though
BS, he had like 10 love interests and they were all female. He even dated Jubilee from Marvel Universe
@fdjtron1732 doesn't change him being bi though, he can date 20 more and he's still bi, that's been a thing since the beginning
@@Izghawa BS, he never showed any attraction to guys until recently and his character was completely ruined after reboot. Original Tim Drake from Post-Crisis and current Tim Drake are almost two different characters at this point.
@fdjtron1732 then you either missed or completely ignored the interactions he has with Conner Kent and other moments that showed him being bi. I agree that DC is ruining his character, but him being bi isn't one of them as that's always been a thing, just not as explicit.
@@Izghawa he always viewed Conner as a friend, for years. Making him bi makes it all worse, because fans and writers are focusing on him being bi more than on his actual character.
The tshirt with the jeans is a terrible superhero outfit
Great video, but Tim being bi isn’t a bad thing
him being bi is awesome and im happy he is, it just really feels like they dont know what to do with him anymore
Hey man I love your comics takes but let’s keep that homophobic shit out of it. Nothing wrong with Tim being bisexual, it has nothing to do with DC sidelining him
Especially the fact they made him gae.
i love that tim is bi, doesn't affect anything at all its just representative, people are mad abt something small. The writes don't rlly know what to do with any of the robins
Ong
you just don't like the new Tim drake because he's Bi.
Negga did not watch the video
Why does everybody have such a problem with Tim being bi?! It’s the most attention the character has gotten in years and he’s serving as great representation for the community- but everyone is so mad and offended over a fictional characters sexuality… SERIOUSLY WEIRD 😶🥱🫥🙃
Because it is unnecessary and comes out of nowhere. Tim had over a dozen love interests and they're all female. DC made him bi just because they needed bi character, they took away everything that Tim accomplished, all his development and then reduced him to "bisexual Robin".
@fdjtron1732 if you genuinely believe that you clearly haven't read any of his recent appearances. After coming out (which retcons nothing and is something Judd Winnick teased atlong beforehand) he had a bunch of stories focusing not on his queer identity, but his identity as Robin and how that reflects himself as an individual. His queer relationship is only as much a part of things as his previous relationships had been.
@@byron2FZ Most of the new stories about him are garbage, unnecessary and useless after everything that happened to him earlier in the Post-Crisis. The only post-flashpoint story that I can safely call great is "A Lonely Place of Living." Tim outgrew Robin, became adult and before reboot he was 18 years old, 13 years later in current comics he's still 18 years, he's Robin again and he's far less mature then his 16 years old self from Post-Crisis
@@fdjtron1732 sounds like your issue with the writing goes back like a decade and has nothing to do with this new development then. Which is weird cos you framed things as though it was what is to blame. Curious.
@@byron2FZ I've read the new Yoing Justice, Tim Drake: Robin and more. I hate his current version but i don't deny that problems began decade ago, it's just that he's getting worse and worse. Do you know what consistency is? If he had been written properly, then after the previous timelines were restored, he would have behaved like in Red Robin - adult, independent, cool-headed and much more professional than everyone except Batman. He doesn't have any good arcs anymore, no real development. Just look at Tim from Batman: Reborn and compare him with the current Tim