WSOP MAIN EVENT - Old School VS New School Poker Analysis Episode 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- Welcome back to Episode 3 of the Old School VS New School Analysis series. This week we're looking back at a hand from the 2015 World Series of Poker Main Event. This hand against Joe McKeehan takes place with two tables left and our eyes on the ultimate prize in poker.
0:00 Intro
0:41 Old School Analysis
4:35 New School Analysis
12:21 Wrap Up
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Thought - hand breakdowns like this would be really cool if you covered up the opponents' hands and then revealed what they were holding after the fact.
Thought the same
Pro trick : you can watch series on flixzone. Been using them for watching loads of movies lately.
I agree.
2015 Dnegs looks like zach playing blackjack in the hangover.... LOL
I don’t think you give old school Daniel enough credit.. he did calculate the combos in his head - he just used different terminology!
Daniel, your ability to keep it real, is - hats off! Keep up the great job
The maths is there basically to help explain why it is a good sound strategy. It has brought the game to the calculating mind a bit more and away from instinct. But both working in tandem is a killer combination.
The math is only viable if you have the instincts, if you assign an incorrect range then all the math is pointless.
As someone just introducing myself to high level modern poker analysis, that's what makes it hard for me to buy that this is effective. You have to do so many things right just for the math to kick in, and even then you're hoping that it pays off for you in the long run.
Love these videos so much!!! Actually makes you realise how much calculation you have to do for every hand.
Thanks for doing these Daniel. Learning a lot and it's just really cool to interact with someone I've watched and admired for many years.
Daniel, whether you’re winning or losing you’re a class act, a legend no question. Love the breakdown, keep them coming!👍
I like Daniel but it's worrisome how much he loses
gay
Best explanation I ever heard. Thank you for making it simple for us amatures yet complex enough to grasp applying the concepts! Thank you!
Thank you so much for sharing and explaining these hand situations. Love these types of videos.
I love this series. Poker theory and play changes over time. I only have a vague idea of tactical poker history. Thanks
Keep these videos coming! Very educational and fascinating!
As always, a comprehensive analytic take on the game. Thanks for taking the time to teach all of us.
This is the most interesting poker vlog concept ever. Really enjoyed. Please keep up the content
Really really loving this video series so far. Please keep it going.
Thanks so much I love these videos and can’t wait to watch you at WSOP 😊
Great to understand the way you break it down. I like to think I would have instantly folded without having to go through that thought process though. That close to Final table I think your comment about preserving your stack takes ultimate priority regardless of the maths.
Spot on... love to see more such breakdowns... keep it coming & sharing @Dneg
Loving this new series old vs new thinking, keep making these 👌👏
Ty I love this new series.
Love this series! Thanks for the great video.
thank you for these video Dneg. This really helps me learn Texas Holdem
Outstanding breakdown. Damn I'm glad this channel exists.
very nice series, a pleasure to watch. waiting for more
Loving these videos!
I was in Vegas this past weekend and I wanted to play, but I haven't studied in years. After watching you a few times this past year, I got scared to play, as I realized might have been BIG Fish now. This video just confirmed it and thank you for saving me money! lol
Thank you for the simple breakdown too, it makes the modern play a little more understandable and fun :).
Thanks Daniel, I absolutely love these
Love these videos. Thanks.
Really love these old school/new school videos. Not many 'old school' players made the transition to GTO play, so your perspective is pretty unique in a lot of ways. I also think, especially for 5/10 and below cash games, new school players are a little too quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to old school play.
Very funny! Thanks! Always entertaining.
Hellmuth and Doug said keep giving lessons
🤣 🤣 damn
Thanks for the video. Very informative
How much different would your cash game approach be in this situation? BB depth being equal as well as the number of players at the table. Thanks
This is a great level of communication for me, casual player. Spot on! Algo should give me more Daniel vids
Thanks for being a great player and instructor.
Old school and new school came to the same conclusion on this one, naturally I might add. In my opinion it is way more interesting to break down hands where old school and new school ends up taking different approaches and making different decisions. Still...I think this is an interesting angle to look at hands from.
wow daniel it is a new level of you man !
the challenge has mad good for you :)
Please keep doing this kind of analysis. Love love love
Hey nice summary. Appreciate it. Would you say most if not all pairs would be playable against Ak off suit? If it was a regular size bet may 2* or 3*?
It’s always interesting to see these two perspectives in cash vs tournament play. The BBs tighten up the play and ranges a little more in these tournies
In cash you can rebuy so its all about your equity and chance to win the hand vs how much it cost you to be in the hand. In tournaments it's all about ICM and relative skill level. And ye; most players overestimate their relative skill levels.
Good analysis, thanks!
Hi Veteran...great idea of coming up with these videos...pleasing vibe all throughout...🙋♂️
Your Teddy KGB t shirt is simply AWESOME. Great poker review as usual. Congrats!
Thanks for another great breakdown sir.
Thank you Daniel.
Are you gonna make a video about the round 2 match with Hellmuth? Ever since I started watching you guys in early 2000s. That guy just gave off a special energy. These great reads and passion make him a good Ambassador for the game.
In my opinion though, Daniel is the more friendly of the two. Negreanu is a legendary player
Hellmuth is McEnroe of poker. Big attitude is great for the popularity of the game.
It’s an easy no brainer fold ...hey can u explain the 11 punts to the Phil on the river last week with a hand break down
Oh look, a guy who never played a serious heads-up
Noticed the WHOOP! love it
Hats off to you always keeping it downtoearth legit.
Daniel is the one who walked out of the lions' den :) how fitting !
Thank you doll
Best masterclass of all time dnegs
good stuff, keep it up
Negreanu,
I'm a new subscriber. I love the content, sir! thanks for the insight.
I play every Wednesday with a group of family and friends and have really noticed the difference in the last few months after watching.
What I have found about my playing style and love for the game is not about the cards at all (playing against other hands) but more about playing against the people at the table.
I see that in you as well, would you say that that is true.
Nice...thanks
Very good danial, very Good for learning the game. If you had time in next video would you discuss the concept of frequencies and give a example. Keep up the videos.
Sure, I touch on that when I can. Frequencies refer to how often you do something. So if you never 3 bet, your 3 bet frequency would be 0%. If you always 3 bet, it would be 100%. If you are doing either of those things, you are exploitable.
A better example may be when continuation betting the flop as the preflop raiser. If your frequency is really high, then your betting range is quite weak- you are betting the flop too much. If your frequency is really low, then your betting range is quite STRONG.
What you want to have is a balanced frequency when you bet the flop. Sometimes you bet strong hands, sometimes you bet weak hands. That way, whether you bet the flop, or more importantly CHECK the flop, you still can have a lot of strong hands in your range.
Imagine a player who never ever slow plays the flop. Ever. If they check the flop... that means their range is garbage and you can just bet the turn and take it with nothing
Watching from Brazil. Thx a lot the analysis you make. So, i have a doubt: QQ in your hand would you surely fold?
the new school vrs old school is great keep up the great content!!!
Love these videos! I'm curious how much GTO influences your game today. I would guess 10 years ago you were somewhere around like 80-85% exploitative, and 10-15% GTO. How accurate is that and how would you describe your style today using those percentages? I have conflicting thoughts on how to use GTO and how much. My overall learning strategy is to use GTO to help my exploitative play stronger, if that makes sense lol. I've become much more GTO dependent in the last 5-6 years. I'd really love to hear your comments and opinions on this
Glad to see you put Cantu in his place.
Hi Daniel. I tried to play well with Aces but, I’m usually short stacked. I, 4x it. Can I mix in Ace King and Kings with my 4x raising range? I tried nines, didn’t work. Ace 10 called and spiked a 10 on the flop. Thank you for your time and consideration. By the way, this video really helped, I wish I had access to this information 4 years ago when I had Kings and 3-bet. He 4-bet and I made the error of going all in, Aces held, of course.
Still made the great lay down, legend!!
I remember watching that table and if I remember right you he got you on river?
So close to that main event bracelet to!!
Next year I’ll beat you to it heads up, I need the money more lol ❤️
I'm teaching my friends poker, and one big question they (and I) have is when to fold ace king, I'm going to show them this.
I thought the extra analysis associated with AK suited was interesting. Given DNegs had AKo, then of the 9 AK combos left, only two are suited. “Old school” might have really only considered the nine AK and six AA/KK combos. Still bad. But if the more accurate analysis is likely two AKs combos and the six AA/KK combos, then it’s even worse.
Hey Daniel what camera do you use for your content? It looks really good.
It's cool to hear the breakdown. However, considering you're not calling either way, if you arrive at the same decision, wouldn't another example would bring out the bigger differences between the new school and old school?
Love the video. What solver do you use or what is the best bang for your buck?
Go to a poker forum and ask that
I love this idea for a series, and I'm very much looking forward to more.
I've already liked and subscribed, and I see that 21 people have down voted. WTF is wrong with those 21 people? :-)
I love these videos! How much did the fact that it is in The WSOP ME effect the tight range you put him on here. E.G - if it was a $1500 WSOP event would you consider calling with AK even against the same player in this spot?
It has a significant effect for sure, also because we play 2 hour levels
I agree with your assessment of this hand. Ike Haxton once commented "when you get it all in with Ace King with a 50 big blind stack you're just smoked in that spot". Would you ever flat the raise, in hopes to induce a shove behind you? (I think the 6s had shorter stack?)
Maybe at a small frequency sure, but it's tough to call a 3 bet cold out of position and not have a range that is face up and easily read. Your opponents can eliminate so many hands that wouldn't call and it makes it super tough. Like if the flop comes 456 you will never have board coverage. Your opponent knows you don't have a set or a straight and can apply a lot of pressure on your range that is AK, AQ, 99-QQ
@@dnegspoker However... what if you cold call 3 bet with some suited connectors a very low % of the time. Like 5% frequency.
Question: Why is everyone raising approximately 2.2x? I feel like that gives odds for basically any hand to call, esp. considering the previous raisers in the hand.
I just wanted to say nice shirt Daniel
DNegs - how is poker evolving currently? Will GTO continue to drive the current play style or do you feel it’s changing away from that?
Remember when the main event had like 60% televised hands be all in on the turn. It played like a PKO. Lol.
hey daniel, i'm joe avg and i appreciate your explantion
I play very low stakes where people are way less predictable; in some ways the fact that you are deep in a world-class tournament makes your opponents more predictable? Or maybe not in general but when they five-bet all in!? Thoughts?
Cel mai bun jucator de poker din istorie!
Where do I get this tshirt???
can u do the hand against esfandiari where he folds st.flush.......board
was A2354 all spades . we couldn't see ur cards so i have guess of ur
holdings. FYI....if u need the hand video i can send it to u......tnx
Hey Daniel. Im enjoying your old v new analysis (and your other vids too). But, whilst the thinking is different, they both seem to lead to the same conclusions. Can you provide an example where the outcomes are different please (or point me to the vid if you have already done so)?
would you fold with Ace King suited though ?
His are double suited...
Your matches with Phil and Phil’s matches with others proved old school is as good if not better
Is AKo necessarily a 4 bet against a 3 bet against UTG?
Do you think you can fold Kings in this exact position? Or do you call and hope to not get coolered
Man, I think KK is too good to fold there but I would consider it maybe
@@dnegspoker Too exploitable imo for such short stack depth. If someone is making a play against you any small % of the time it's a huge error to fold KK. Remember that time you bluffed that guy with sunglasses on because you knew he knew you never bluff early in a tournament? (this was years back). Well what if a player at the main event just got frisky and made a play on you? It can happen, and only needs to happen low frequency to make folding KK a big error.
GTO-wise at least, we know it's a big error. When veering from GTO to exploit, if villain exploits you back then they are exploiting for way more than your initial exploit. These ideas are covered in Modern Poker Theory book.
daniel your the best
Wayne's World!! Party Time. lol 4:37
looks like you're constantly looking at your phone for notes and keeping it on by touching the screen. Try the guided access, it might help. (if my assumption is right)
What is the guided access?
@@dnegspoker 1) I’m printing and framing this screenshot.
2) On iPhone (or iPad) you can go to settings -> guided access in Accessibility which when turned on locks your device to keep the current app open. support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202612
Hi Daniel, even though the GTO math made the correct assumption, so did your old school read. I think you cant get away from the old school read vs just a solver. Obviously, the solver works to some extent, but I feel a good read will win more often than GTO. I put my theory to test at a live Venetian tournament a few weeks ago. GTO has holes or maybe players try to get too creative. Either way, I study GTO only to understand how a GTO player thinks, but still play small/big ball. Love your videos. Good luck to you.
Great to see daniel invested in a decent mic, now he just needs to actually use it
I remember this hand quite well! I always felt like jamming aces into Negreanu's range at this point was a bit of a mistake, seeing how mr cold 4bet negreanu never really cold 4bets, I feel his range would play better as a flat. Especially top range! You could make an argument to jam KK, and A5s or something. But if he flats JJ & QQ, and probably AK, it seems weird you wanna split the range in such a way and not include AA.
But what the hell do I know, I never won the wsop ME or the world championchip of Risk. And I don't have 40 millions in tournament winnings either. So I guess the pros should fight this out while I enjoy the show
I’ve only been watching you for a month or so now and I can tell my game has gone up, won my first bounty tournament yesterday and it felt so good. Keep the tips and analysis’s coming!
it sounds exactly the same😅 but 2 different ways to say the same😎 anw in the end its about if you feeling lucky and or want to risk✌
this t shirt is aweome.
So if he thought you had 20% equity should he have raised smaller on the 5-bet to get more out of you?
That average Joe pun LOL
Absolute Pro Fold. Another example of the difference between Pro and Amateur
nice
Hellmuth might be onto something.. it's good to understand GTO only to exploit GTO. Trust in your own style of play.
But does Phil actually understand GTO?
His play doesn't look like he has any idea of GTO in most spots.
Most successful poker players use GTO, but the likes of Phil Hellmuth (most bracelets) and Brynn Kenney (most cash winnings) exploit GTO
Daniel, going back to a similar question I asked in your previous video, what do you think is the rationale of Joe's shove.
That 5 bet shove shows so much strength considering your image. In that scenario I believe you would consider folding KK if you had there..
If you have KK, against his shoving range you have 6 combos of AA where u are at 20% and 8 AK combos where u are ahead. And like you said he would shove a suited AK which is only 2 combos against your hypothetical KK at that spot. So my questions are would you fold KK that spot and is shoving the most optimal play for Joe considering your 4 bet range where he have you crushed. In other words would it be more optimal for him to give you rope to hang yourself.
实力与运气并存，缺一不可！