GETTING SCHOOLED - Old School VS New School Poker Analysis Episode 11
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2021
- Welcome back to Episode 11 of the Old School VS New School Analysis series. This week we're looking back at a hand from the 2015 Super High Roller Bowl against Tom Marchese. Clip provided courtesy of PokerGO and you can view the original clip here: • Daniel Defends His Fav...
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gotta say, I think this is a much more valuable format when you show hands you didn't play perfect and show us what you learned and how you adjusted in 2021. Thanks for the lesson-
So many people are incapable of doing what you talked about at the end of this video; looking at themselves with an unfiltered lens and LEARNING from it. Seeing mistakes in ourselves is one of the hardest things to do, and you openly LOOK for them. It’s what makes you not only a great poker player, but a great human!
nice
for sure! it's a scary notion! Daniel always evolves.
This is whole concept of thinking differently is mind blowing you are such a good teacher! Very grateful for these videos I’m seeing results everyday. The way I think is entirely different and I feel a skill difference like these players are just easy to beat and read. Hard to explain but I’m sure it’s because of this series
I would love to actually see the solver when you are talking about the new school.
Nice video concept though and great video.
@@shadowsmessage It’s one of many tools. There’s no reason for the shitty attitude.
@@shadowsmessage clueless
@@BrandonWestfall Or the myriad grammatical errors :) .
@@shadowsmessage A solver would obliterate anybody in the comment section 🤣. It wouldn't even be close either.
@@shadowsmessage If you have problems understanding what a solver can be usefull for don't hold yourself back and ask. Solvers are super in evolving your strategy and giving you new ideas on how to play a spot. Machines have undoubtedly long been much stronger players in chess and poker than humans ever were. If you don't like that maybe basketball is more your thing ;)
Really enjoying these videos. I'm older than the average beginner but I'm starting to take this whole thing very seriously. I feel in love with poker watching DNegs, Ivey and Dwan on Poker After Dark. When I started to learn about the new school theory I got scared off, but now I'm back.
Hilarious Trump is in Negreanu's background
is great to see you making this kind of content, really good analysis at high level poker, and inspiring to know that you are still re-thinking the game and improving. You make me love poker and i thank you
Great explanation. By knowing Dneg's was less likely to properly bet his middle pairs--essentially knowing that Dnegs was fixated on hitting/missing the straight--Marqueses decision to call was a lot easier. So, the lesson here was to not create the pattern that makes oneself exploitable, defend middle pairs more often. Thanks Daniel.
These are excellent. Hard to find such indept breakdowns..keep them coming please!
These vids are great tools to keep up my game. Love the concept, I'm starting to construct the same ranges you discuss in the "new school" while you go over the "old school." It's great!
i learned "old school" and kind of held a cut and dry approach, but would splice in random plays, like limping nuts or check raises.. now, I'm trying to actually learn the organics of it.. and really think about what floats around, not just what we hold in our hands. need to better learn odds
The dogs barks, the bear goes his own way.
Good stuff here, nice concept, thank you Daniel.
These are great. Thanks for taking the time man.
Great video, always admired D negs because he's humble and why he'll be around for a long time and be one of the greatest. In this particular video he truly capitalized on learning from old vs new theory. This was one the better takes on this series! One thing that would of been great is to hear opponent's comments now. I truly wonder if he was considering a raise on river to secure a win and put Daniel off a single pair option. Overall, great take away from this! Thank you Daniel!
congrats. gl in the 100k real fun to watch in the 50k.
Probably the analysis that I enjoyed watching the most👌
Ma bucur sa vad ca te-ai adaptat si iti merge bine. Baftă!
This series is so great
Very cool analysis 🙏🏼
Very very well done 👍
Fantastic analysis!
What's up with these comments? Recent heads up duels have nothing to do with this breakdown. It's some entertainment and a little instruction on new vs old strats. Even if the hand is heads up to the flop, it's still very different compared to a whole heads up match.
That explains it. Not a good line, but I wish folks wouldn't conflate it with other types of games.
I'm with you man. FFS I'm sick of hearing about the HU games. He's not perfect. Sometimes he looks pretty damn mortal. That should shock fucking nobody. Dude's been at the top for 20+ years. Those HU matches are a speck of dust compared to what he's done. This is a legend helping us learn concepts he's developed or studied for years, the shit that got him what 40, 50 million in earnings? And these $1/$3 clowns on YT somehow think they have a leg to stand on with these comments? Lol.
Recency bias
@@Yo_AB_Breaks I think the main issue is that he is making this hand out to be a great call against him, but with the hand the way it was played it is standard. When you consider an 8 or 6 would not be betting the river the majority of the time, most of the time he should up with a bluff
But when we are mixing our strategy and coming in hot with different angles, would it be effective against someone who knows us???
You should take a hand from now n see how 2004 Dnegs would play it
Well done.
Thanks for this cool video :)
Congrats on the win
Looking good Boss!
Congrats on your long over due win and the Cup to boot!
I want to ask you a question..... hopefully you read this. Using solvers and GTO is showing that balancing all areas of your game. For obvious reasons people don't check raise with the top of their ranges in spots like this(sets and top two). Do you think because of that you, or other players would ever call with weak holdings( bottom pair, A or K high) or even float with air to take the pot away on later streets? Especially because they would probably put you on a draw or weak holding, precisely because no one check raises with the top of their range here? I didn't word this well and maybe I'm over thinking it. What do you think? Anyone?
What were your thoughts on that Q7 all in? You the best bro been watching you crush since 2004
Can someone link me a good way to learn old school vs new school
And if so, do you think that check raising on the flop in these spots isn't being balanced enough because that type of play is a waste of strong hand? Could that be exploited or does it happen to infrequently that it's not worth balancing?
i love how you brought up the whole hand and how it played as to explain why the call was viable. i believe most players, including me, will see a lot of "horrible" plays, but just don't understand them or what led up to it.
i thought his call was ridiculous, at first, but the breakdown dropped knowledge.
Good training
The "2nd place" king🤣
Daniel’s definitely taking a lot of 2nd place finishes in his heads up matches lately. Lol
Oh u saw doug vedio..lol😂😂
You guys are really cruel.
I wonder if that means he’s going to go on a 5 year heater.
You acting like you wouldn't give your left arm to be 2nd in that many tournaments.
Congratulations on your latest tournament win.
Daniel te pup ... da o inimioara dacă vezi comentul!!
Sunt mare fan !
If only a few years ago, somebody tell me that I can LEARN poker from THE POKER KID Daniel Negreanu just watching video online, I SAYED: IMPOSSIBILE! Now that's it! A lot of very important information of thinking process that I love it. You were and you are the best poker player in the word! Amazing!!!
UTG 10 7o, what reason is there not to fold this hand preflop in this position?
Don't let the haters get you Daniel.
A check-raise flop is a good idea. Maybe a pot-sized bet on the river too?
Gotta rep that oddly played 86s. After a flop check-raise, though we can't see stack sizes exactly, it looks like you'd have something like 1.1x pot left, too. With so few strong hands in your flop range, introducing check-raising here doesn't make a lot of sense unless you're counter-exploiting a player's continuation bet frequency and they're incapable of fighting back against that idea. If you're check-raising your bluffs and your strong hands on this flop, check-calling is what, like your best hand is K8ish? That's going to be a rough turn and river most of the time.
Good content but could be better by pre running the senerios you mentioned
Big fan sir 🙏🏻❤️
Hi, Daniel, I feel like you're a bit sad in the video. I hope I'm wrong, tho
I wish you lots of strength and all the best!
Greetings from Romania
I knew there was some amount of gto math going on in these players brains but I had no idea it was this detailed. I thought pro players main skill was reading tells and stuff.
So knowing all of that, how should you have played it?
shove
But why do we call with our bad draws? If we dont check-raise them what are our check-raise-bluffs?
Und because theres no flushdraw we dont have so many bluffs right...?
Hi Daniel. I'm a bit of a fan just because I like to watch the best of the best. So far as TH-cam goes though, I am not "people". I am a person so your welcome is a little offputting. When I watch a TH-camr, I like to believe they are talking to me. Personally and individually. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Poker is the worst as far as amateur players criticizing pros. Example: this comment section.
I applaud this comment, Daniel, please pin this
MMA might be pretty bad too
And for people who refuse to learn algebra 😎
Here's the situation from this past Monday's game. Blinds are 400/800 there are 3 callers before it gets back to the blinds. Small blind folds. Big blind goes all in with his remaining 600 for a total of 1400. What are the 3 remaining callers required to put in the pot? One guy says everyone still has to call the minimum of 800 and create a side pot. The rest of us say...they only have to match his all in total of 1400. Who's right?
Can he not narrow down your range to a set straight or 2 pair.
He should not be able to do that, or come even close to that. After Marchese checks back the turn, he rarely has middling 6x beat and has few 4x hands that aren't bluffing the flop and turn that also get there on the river (a4 probably checks back and naked 4x hands like J4 might opt for a turn and/or river bluff. DN should likely be betting a mix of something like Q6+ and bluffs like T7 and T9 here. If your range is sets, straights and bluffs here, a call is very profitable.
If you would have bet 1/2 pot on the River, instead of $110K, do you think he would have folded? The $110K imo didn’t seem strong enough to get him to fold. 1/2 pot would have spoken differently to him.
For all the shmucks who don't understand, Daniel is undergoing a period of change in playstyle. This comes with experimenting more, thus less consistent winnings.
Also, he couldn't have simply stuck to his former playstyle, because the pros have picked it by now
I think you’re right. Bit it’s his attitude that’s a bit annoying. He was spoon fed basic GTO theory for a few months straight and acts like his a GTO wizard when he doesn’t even know how to input data into the system. Even Helmuth let him talk his talk and beat him out right, and while he’s able to build a stake in the early stages of these tournaments he’s not getting to the final table. And in the one Poker Go tourney he did make final table this week, he punted a mid-stack in two bad hands. He’s got a lot of work to do yet if he wants to compete with the new pros. I like D-negs. I want to see him do well, but he’s got to let go of this faux humility and really come to terms with where he’s at career-wise and then make some serious decisions. I hope he does.
gooooooooooood
He knew you were bluffing - he figured out what your "stare-down" meant, and he had a bluff-catcher.
What does old school vs new school mean?
If you only use EV calculation on the river - if he thinks you are bluffing with a frequency (probability) > 22 percent, it justifies a call.
A positive EV is necessary but not sufficient to justify a call. If you want to minimize variance and maximize the growth of the stack, you should apply Kelly's criteria. Everything I say here is "bull shit" if you use the "solvers" I think!
He called me with a 3 honey!
Daniel! I got the courage to play poker at the casino for my first time last night.. my 2nd hand was pocket queens, I tripled my $100 buy in and called it a day! Your recap videos are very insightful
Cobra Kai never dies!
How is it new school if you dont even bother to run the hands in a solver to be sure of your hunch about them ?
Oh this isn't Polker News...
Even though we are about the same age...yoi have been my guy to improve. I am not rich so I don't have the stakes but if you would take a little time out, I would love to play you heads up at 1k per round. I know it is small but make a dream come true to play against the best in the world
Good job on the win! shut these foo's up.
could you also have had 22? would play kinda similar right?
”Worst I ever did was making a two pair of it, I cant lose a pot with 10-7”
BOOM
The worst I ever did was trips
Why continue on the flop? Daniel is getting getting 3-1 to continue to the river but the odds of hitting the inside straight is around 10% to the river (and half that on the turn). I guess if you include 10's as outs then you are getting pot odds to continue but... I dunno. Seems a bit loosy (but not yet goosey)
Maybe because of the implied odds. If you hit your draw, you could get much more chips from the opponent
Bravo 🍻Sa ne traiesti
Nice channel. Why do it though? Why give away insight? I would love to talk strategy against specific players privately. I analyze the games of the people I play too. Have gotten so good at reading them that I have to intentionally lose to them at times to keep our game going.
If you had bet 60% + of the pot, he would have folded
2015 is not that old
In terms of years no 2015 is not old. But in terms of how players were thinking back then then yes it was old school
you wouldn't have bet two pair on that board?? wtf lol that's always been terrible
How about inviting uests to comment the hands with you? The players you played against : D
DNegs the best
I see it as your last bet was too small Daniel. If you would have gone all in or a pot sized bet, then he probably would not have called and taken the risk. The size of your bet represented a buff at the pot. But, he only had a pair of threes. Even if he thought you were bluffing, you could of had a pair of something bigger than him. Again, your last bet was too small and represented to him that you were bluffing. No one would have called you with an all in bet or a pot sized bet with a pair of threes.
Yes, but it was "clear" to him that Daniel didn't have any of these pairs because through his plays it was possible to read that he was playing for the straight, and having missed, he went for a bluff.
@@rzimer It was clear yes, but he was not certain. When you call a bluff, you have to take into account that you might have misread the opponents hand and the cost of being wrong when calling. I don't think we would have called an "all-in" bluff from Daniel. He felt the weakness in Daniel's low bet and assumed it was a bluff from a missed straight.
After getting owned by Phil, you should get a shirt made that says; "Drawing Dead" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"New school" = players who have been playing high stakes NLHE for 15 years? Props for analyzing a weakness like this. If you're not value betting a 6 and play all your T9 and T7 that way, nom nom nom. Also, not sure if it's relevant for you, but the hand over the mouth the entire time you're bluffing and weak. You also look incredulous and have been quiet the entire hand, which isn't something I've seen from you on TV with better holdings and/or "easier" spots. If Tom knows that look isn't "should I value bet this 6x hand?", then you're getting called. Nice analysis for the TH-cams.
Daniel opens with I made a cool $3,000,000 at a tournament. yet he's opted to keeps ads on in his videos.
Yeah, most people eventually give up trying to add to their net worth, especially wealthy people :D
Can't help but see the drop in your game since you started this "Old School" vs. "New School" bullshit. Bring back the Old Daniel, Mr Sensitive
He put you on 109. 107, or just 2 overs and made the call. You are unlikely to bet an 8 or 6 here.. It's not rocket science. At least the game is still beatable since people think this is a fantastic call. This hand isn't even an impressive call. More standard to anybody who is a good player actaully
存、100包赔100存、1000包赔、500
Dont talk about the Hellmuth game, because you got rekt too badly.
Man of 2nd places
Can we get this guy replaced with a TRUE legend of the game such as Phil HELLMUTH
Replaced in what sense lol
You're on his TH-cam channel
Is Daniel going to ignore how bad his heads up game has been for the past couple of years. I mean not only loosing every single heads up in tournament finals but he literally just got embarrassed and swept by phill hellmuth and Doug Polk. Daniel it’s time to switch things up heads up wise. I would look into studying the fundamentals more
That's ridiculous. First, Doug is one of the top HUNL players in the world. That's not Daniel's domain. I was impressed at how much Daniel improved over the course of that challenge, and I think Doug feels similarly.
RE: Phil - it's a small sample size and Daniel at best has a small edge over Phil, so it is hard to read too much into those sessions.
Doesn't matter in old school or new school, Dnegs always gets owned 🤣
What's your profits like 100$
Lol oh he does??? You sure about that!?
Bro he's got millions of dollars and a hot wife. How's poker treating you?
@@dogperson432 I'm up over 7 figures in poker after 9 years of play.. That's good enough for me. Now I just make very easy money off real estate and don't bother to play poker for real serious money anymore.... Also, having a gold digger wife means literally nothing.. You have to be fucking stupid to have as much money as he does and marry
Get that trump crap out of there.
Bit rich new school stuff coming from dnegs, I guess it's OK because someone said you got better. But get them wins and your content gains credibility.
Dnegs I thought you'd have known better when you stated PH had no shot, all you had to do was challenge if somehow you lost. Its a complete disregard of the well known fact anyone can win a head up sng, even the worse player 3 times in row. That's a huge humbling.
Negranu stick to ur style quit copying the newbies maybe u might win