Well thank you for saying so. It all started with me posing a question about the clutch on a forum. There were a few who said disparaging things about me personally. I took up the challenge. Knowing zero about clutches I found simple observation and reading engineering students papers on line helped build an understanding. But now I have thicker skin and have told my ego to sit in the corner.
Non were new, all were off of eBay. Most were listed under k1300s. Some under the k1200 listings were the newer frictions and steels. Those were a good price because the seller didn’t realize these were the most up to date. As you might have guessed by my name, my ancestry is Dutch. Hello to you.
Hi Terry, I've really enjoyed watching your videos and coming across your comments on other forums. There is so much useful information provided, thank you for sharing your in-depth research. I do believe your research is the best out there. I own a K1200R which has the clunk into first gear, but this does not take away from the enjoyment of riding this powerhouse bike. My aim is to reduce the clunk as much as possible by using your techniques of controlling the flow of oil going to the plates. BMW did seem to address part of the issue by including the anti-judder spring and washer installed on the later K1300 models. The earlier K1200 bikes didn't come with the anti-judder spring & washer. I did research on the availability of being supplied separately but found BMW only supply the complete lamellar clutch pack 21 21 7 700 514 with the spring and washer. During your research were you able to find an aftermarket anti-judder spring & washer or any other compatible brands that will suit the K1200/1300? Thanks
Micheal, thanks for your comments. I’ve moved on from a performance bike to a more laid back ride. I tend to ride within the bikes capabilities. I now ride a Moto Guzzi Audace and can look around at where I am. The anti judder spring by itself will probably make little difference. It does open up that specific area. But I found there was still to much oil for it to make a difference. Even if the oil were cleared or reduced to overcome fluid lock, all it would take was for one of the other plates to be locked to have the clunk. What I would say try is this. First make sure you have the pin with preferably one groove. In the end I wasn’t able to try the washer idea that shut the oil off on an original untouched clutch pack. The multiple clutch packs I’d gone through were all experimented on. But I would try that. By itself it may not shed enough oil soon enough to make a difference. Might be that the clutch would have to be held in longer than is reasonable. As for parts, I bought a good number of parts from breakers on EBay. Time of year can make a difference as to what’s available. Not so many wreaks in the winter. I hope this answers what you wanted to know.
@justincarney1250 0 seconds ago Hello I have watched several videos on the clutch replacementand at a lose on how the six allan key bolts that hold the pressue spring in place can be torqued , if they are set fully home and torqued to 8nm the this has basically engaged the clutch it has compressed the spring down the same way the slave cylinder does , the spring must be able to move in and out as the slave cylinder pushes against it , tightening these bolts all the way home does not allow it to operate , there must be either an physical measurement between the basket and the spring plate or some other way to determine corect spring pressure . As I can not get the bolts to 8 nm against the spring pressure alone , Any insights would be helpful , many thnks
Hi Terry, congratulations first on your perseverance. I have a K1200R motorcycle, I have already replaced the clutch springs, so the rattle is gone. (based on hondakiller 2 video) Currently I put motul 7100 5w40 oil in the engine and changed the clutch plates to barnett because they were worn. My problem is that when shifting, the gear clicks big and not only in the first gear but also in the others. Based on your videos, I can’t figure out what modifications to start the clutch conversion, start punching the plates, or place a washer under the thrust bearing, or reshape the oiling holes. do you think Motul 20w-50 oil would be better for the engine or do you use it? Thanks for the answer :)
Hi Toth, thanks for the kind words about my obsession. First, no, I don’t think a different oil would make any noticeable change. Second, the first thing to do is make sure the master cylinder is pushing a full compliment oil. The clutch lever should be all the way out, farthest from the grip. Now the slave cylinder is pushing the thrust bearing in as much as its capable. So maximum potencial plate separation. Personally I would start with the washer on the thrust adapter. Initially the washer can just ride on the thrust adapter freely. The thickness of the washer should be found with the clutch lever. The goal is when the clutch lever is pulled in, resistance is felt just before the lever touches the grip. Having the lever stop here means we again have maximum throw on the slave. You can hear the click as the washer hits the transmission shaft. One characteristic I’m guessing, is there could be a loner pause to let the oil shed off the plates. That’s where I would begin. I would start this out of curiosity and not expecting great results immediately. But you know a straight forward solution is to always be in gear. Avoid neutral into first. Oh right, you also mentioned going into second and third. I do remember that on my K1200. Gear matching was very demanding. So yes, I would try the lever and washer. That second and third klunk is a sure sign the oil is not being shed fast enough.
@@terryasselstine6879 hi Terry, inserting the washer does not have the same result as adjusting the clutch lever on the small bolt due to backlash? or here the oil dosage changes so should the washer?
If I understand your question correctly, don’t play with the master cylinder. To start just set the clutch lever to its furthest position. This will maximize the travel of the piston = maximum plate separation. The washer is to shut oil off within the clutch itself.
@@terryasselstine6879 Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I put in a 2.8mm washer and put the thin lamella of the barnett in the middle. I couldn’t go yet, maybe in a few days, but unfortunately in a neutral position the transmission still clicks big if I put it in first gear, if from neztral to second, the click is even bigger. As soon as I manage to try I will write down what I experienced. Thanks again.
@@tothattila1446 2.8 mm washer, the clutch lever from the farthest position, you should feel the lever stop at some point close to the grip. Small increases in the washer thickness lead to the lever travel stopping farther from the grip = less plate separation. I found it a fussy balance to find. Try increasing the length of time the clutch is being held in, the shedding of oil. If you can’t find a length of time that quiets downs the klunk, pull the clutch in and quickly rev the engine. Let the engine return to idle, then try dropping into first.
The aluminium basket and pressure plate is the root problem I think. The friction plates should run against steel not alloy. A case of BMW being too clever for their own good. The Japanese have been making bulletproof yet silky smooth wet clutches for 40 years.
I agree that it would take care of the wear. The ‘clunk’ contributes to the wear also, that wack against the basket. Proper lubrication and space allotment for the plates would smooth things out.
I think BMW tried to be too smart in using aluminium in a friction application. It should be fibre against steel, not fibre against alloy. The fix would be a steel basket and pressure plate.
Dankjewel Terry!
Thanks for the very in-depth video's!
Very interesting to see the ways you went at this and stuff you found out.
Well thank you for saying so. It all started with me posing a question about the clutch on a forum. There were a few who said disparaging things about me personally. I took up the challenge. Knowing zero about clutches I found simple observation and reading engineering students papers on line helped build an understanding. But now I have thicker skin and have told my ego to sit in the corner.
Non were new, all were off of eBay. Most were listed under k1300s. Some under the k1200 listings were the newer frictions and steels. Those were a good price because the seller didn’t realize these were the most up to date. As you might have guessed by my name, my ancestry is Dutch. Hello to you.
Hello Terry,
Thanks for this great video 👍🏻. Where dit you order the new plates. Where they from BMW?
Greetings from Holland....
I always accepted the clunk into first was part of the character of the bike, never bothered me in 10 years.
Hi Terry, I've really enjoyed watching your videos and coming across your comments on other forums. There is so much useful information provided, thank you for sharing your in-depth research. I do believe your research is the best out there. I own a K1200R which has the clunk into first gear, but this does not take away from the enjoyment of riding this powerhouse bike. My aim is to reduce the clunk as much as possible by using your techniques of controlling the flow of oil going to the plates. BMW did seem to address part of the issue by including the anti-judder spring and washer installed on the later K1300 models. The earlier K1200 bikes didn't come with the anti-judder spring & washer. I did research on the availability of being supplied separately but found BMW only supply the complete lamellar clutch pack 21 21 7 700 514 with the spring and washer. During your research were you able to find an aftermarket anti-judder spring & washer or any other compatible brands that will suit the K1200/1300? Thanks
Micheal, thanks for your comments. I’ve moved on from a performance bike to a more laid back ride. I tend to ride within the bikes capabilities. I now ride a Moto Guzzi Audace and can look around at where I am.
The anti judder spring by itself will probably make little difference. It does open up that specific area. But I found there was still to much oil for it to make a difference. Even if the oil were cleared or reduced to overcome fluid lock, all it would take was for one of the other plates to be locked to have the clunk.
What I would say try is this. First make sure you have the pin with preferably one groove. In the end I wasn’t able to try the washer idea that shut the oil off on an original untouched clutch pack. The multiple clutch packs I’d gone through were all experimented on. But I would try that. By itself it may not shed enough oil soon enough to make a difference. Might be that the clutch would have to be held in longer than is reasonable.
As for parts, I bought a good number of parts from breakers on EBay. Time of year can make a difference as to what’s available. Not so many wreaks in the winter.
I hope this answers what you wanted to know.
@@kateyoung7795 The Moto Guzzi looks be a very nice bike. Thank you for your detailed response it definitely helps.
@justincarney1250
0 seconds ago
Hello I have watched several videos on the clutch replacementand at a lose on how the six allan key bolts that hold the pressue spring in place can be torqued , if they are set fully home and torqued to 8nm the this has basically engaged the clutch it has compressed the spring down the same way the slave cylinder does , the spring must be able to move in and out as the slave cylinder pushes against it , tightening these bolts all the way home does not allow it to operate , there must be either an physical measurement between the basket and the spring plate or some other way to determine corect spring pressure . As I can not get the bolts to 8 nm against the spring pressure alone , Any insights would be helpful , many thnks
Hi Terry,
congratulations first on your perseverance. I have a K1200R motorcycle, I have already replaced the clutch springs, so the rattle is gone. (based on hondakiller 2 video) Currently I put motul 7100 5w40 oil in the engine and changed the clutch plates to barnett because they were worn. My problem is that when shifting, the gear clicks big and not only in the first gear but also in the others. Based on your videos, I can’t figure out what modifications to start the clutch conversion, start punching the plates, or place a washer under the thrust bearing, or reshape the oiling holes. do you think Motul 20w-50 oil would be better for the engine or do you use it?
Thanks for the answer :)
Hi Toth, thanks for the kind words about my obsession.
First, no, I don’t think a different oil would make any noticeable change.
Second, the first thing to do is make sure the master cylinder is pushing a full compliment oil. The clutch lever should be all the way out, farthest from the grip. Now the slave cylinder is pushing the thrust bearing in as much as its capable. So maximum potencial plate separation. Personally I would start with the washer on the thrust adapter. Initially the washer can just ride on the thrust adapter freely. The thickness of the washer should be found with the clutch lever. The goal is when the clutch lever is pulled in, resistance is felt just before the lever touches the grip. Having the lever stop here means we again have maximum throw on the slave. You can hear the click as the washer hits the transmission shaft. One characteristic I’m guessing, is there could be a loner pause to let the oil shed off the plates.
That’s where I would begin. I would start this out of curiosity and not expecting great results immediately. But you know a straight forward solution is to always be in gear. Avoid neutral into first. Oh right, you also mentioned going into second and third. I do remember that on my K1200. Gear matching was very demanding. So yes, I would try the lever and washer. That second and third klunk is a sure sign the oil is not being shed fast enough.
@@terryasselstine6879 hi Terry,
inserting the washer does not have the same result as adjusting the clutch lever on the small bolt due to backlash? or here the oil dosage changes so should the washer?
If I understand your question correctly, don’t play with the master cylinder. To start just set the clutch lever to its furthest position. This will maximize the travel of the piston = maximum plate separation. The washer is to shut oil off within the clutch itself.
@@terryasselstine6879 Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I put in a 2.8mm washer and put the thin lamella of the barnett in the middle. I couldn’t go yet, maybe in a few days, but unfortunately in a neutral position the transmission still clicks big if I put it in first gear, if from neztral to second, the click is even bigger. As soon as I manage to try I will write down what I experienced. Thanks again.
@@tothattila1446 2.8 mm washer, the clutch lever from the farthest position, you should feel the lever stop at some point close to the grip. Small increases in the washer thickness lead to the lever travel stopping farther from the grip = less plate separation. I found it a fussy balance to find. Try increasing the length of time the clutch is being held in, the shedding of oil. If you can’t find a length of time that quiets downs the klunk, pull the clutch in and quickly rev the engine. Let the engine return to idle, then try dropping into first.
The aluminium basket and pressure plate is the root problem I think. The friction plates should run against steel not alloy. A case of BMW being too clever for their own good.
The Japanese have been making bulletproof yet silky smooth wet clutches for 40 years.
I agree that it would take care of the wear. The ‘clunk’ contributes to the wear also, that wack against the basket. Proper lubrication and space allotment for the plates would smooth things out.
I think BMW tried to be too smart in using aluminium in a friction application. It should be fibre against steel, not fibre against alloy.
The fix would be a steel basket and pressure plate.