Testing the
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- What better test than to put the MagicMotorsport DynoRoad portable dyno head to head against our £250k purpose built cell and Dyno Dynamics Dyno.
We were very surprised by the results!
The previous runs logged by the device were without the accurate weight measurement and with Tom driving. The first run I did with accurate weight is what you see filmed here, no trial run for me, no tricks.
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*This video was not paid for or sponsored by Magic Motorsport. The test was fully independent, fair and our options were not bias or influenced in anyway.
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Ok did not expect it to appear to be as accurate as a dyno, and its never wasted time as we appreciate it 👍
You didn’t waste anyone’s time doing this. I think this will be a good thing to have in my garage. Thanks for the honesty with the review!!!
Can't quite believe how accurate it was. The manufacturing and technology in a modern rolling road is far higher than alot of people think. The fact they have seemingly crammed alloy of that in to a small device like that and an intelligent app is mind blowing.
Also to be so close they must have rigerously tested it, something I think is rare in the tuning products age these days.
It's a spin off of bicycle power meters Nearly the exact same technology (calibrated strain gauge) and works the same. I'm a recently retired pro cyclist and for the last 5 or so years it has basically been mandatory to put one of these on your bike for racing. You figure out what your sustainable power is and cruise at that power level so you don't burn out before its time to attack. I always wondered if you could do the same thing for a car/motorcycle and I guess you can! It seems crazy but its a pretty well established thing, and the cycling ones are usually accurate within +/- 2 watts (1/373th of a HP)
@@bennyb.1742 Note sure it would use a strain gauge?
It is told the wheel dia & the vehicle mass - it will calculate the rear ratio from the 3000rpm calibration run, and it can measure the change in velocity over time. Then just simple physics - force = mass x acceleration.
now they just need to develop a version that's under a grand so consumers can actually buy it, anyone with enough money to dump into a serious project car would rather just go to a real dyno so they need to make it appeal to the consumer
@@Toymonkeyjryes, way too expensive.
In theory, it's really easy to do - just move the car instead of drums on the dyno (rejecting air resistance by assuming you're not testing a Mac truck). But, that requires some very, very accurate sensors (or, more likely, a combination of quality components, common-mode rejection and other software magic), a very fast processor, and engineers that Actually Care™. If this thing was selling for $200 USD, I'd call BS or suspect money laundering.
strange that they don't include an OBD adapter to get direct RPM feed.
i guess it doesn't really need it :)
Yeh this would mean no need to press buttons on a device while driving
They do in different package
@Stem Artin pretty sure most stuff unless made in house by a uk company comes from China….it’s just made to required spec 🤷🏼♂️
@Stem Artin This tool is basically measuring wheels rpm variation which is acceleration. With that and some data like wheel circumference and weight you can deduce power from torque. Everything else is handled by software with enhaced accuracy using sensors like temperature, ambient pressure, road slope ?, ... And I agree with you I'm sure this tool doesn't even cost a quarter of the price to build.
Had no idea these existed. Definitely worth having around.
It's not cheap, but it's way cheaper than to buy a dyno-bank.
A dyno test and tune here in Florida costs around $600 usd on average, lowest I've seen was 200 and the most expensive was 1400. It depends on what's been done and if you're just getting a dyno test or a tune. Cool product anyways
Nick Stamper 50$ in Orlando
@@michellejones502 I would never in a million years trust a $50 dyno tune.
That is pretty cool. Certainly a lot cheaper than a full actual dyno for a hobbyist, not to mention not requiring any extra shop space.
Ya definitely lol but I still think that 1k for this is quite expensive
Tech is moving fast, I would imagine it would be useful and a relatively cheap way to keep track of a race car’s engine performance over a season. Another informative and entertaining video, keep it up lads.
Good for the race tracks
@@DarksideDevelopments it would be interesting to see the how it performs on your race/ track cars over the summer compared to your dyno results in back to back results.
You can measure all the same data and do the same calculations that this is doing, directly from data in the ECU. It's a pointless invention that does something worse and more expensively than existing tech. Get an OBD2 adapter and the Torque Pro app. It does the same thing but uses the cars wheel speed sensors and RPM reading from the ECU.
Expected a complete joke of a product. But it actually worked, I'm shocked. Really cool device.
would be cool if obd2 reader came with it to measure RPM exactly as well
Good thinking, that should be the mk 2 edition for sure
Yeah, would be so easy to take out the problem of pressing buttons on right rpms aswell as eliminate people producing fake bragging numbers :P
@@TheBobinn lol everyone rounds it up
once you provide it with which model of car your driving along with the tyre size it may already be able to calculate how many RPM's you are sitting at by knowing you are in 3rd gear during the calibration along with looking at the speed given by GPS
@@sausagefingers714 Yeah, but it is much more accurate to get the exact rpm from the engine ECU. There are many variables (for example tire pressure) that can introduce slight variance in the calculated RPM.
More expensive than I thought on the website.
Not bad at all considering the accuracy. A proper dyno can easily set you back £40k+ just for a 2WD dyno.
Maybe you could sell the dyno service to your local mates cars and lower or get back that investment in no time. 😁
a proper dyno costs tens of thousands mate
In the description they say their dyno and cell cost £250,000.
It does have a purpose, though maybe not so much here in the UK. Some cars are configured for different altitudes and climates as these environments can alter the air/fuel mix. I didn't even know this was a thing until the other day when I watched a video on mapping and modding cars in a desert mountain road environment. Apparently the low air pressure, high altitude, dry air and heat can sap all power out of a car unless it's built to take that into consideration.
Altitude is a huge factor, especially for diesels!
A modern car using an air mass sensor and/or a MAP sensor can sense and adjust to the change in density altitude. No car needs remapping for that.
This is pretty cool. I knew once I saw how it does it's calibration stuff that this would be a pretty accurate little device. I used a program called Virtual Dyno when I was tuning my car. It would take datalogs from my car, I put in the weight, coefficient of drag, tire size, gear ratio, etc into the program, stuff in my datalog, and as long as my log is clean, and I used a good flat road, I was able to get pretty accurate dyno charts that were within a few hp of what an actual dyno rated my car
it's all about putting in good data. Good data in > Good data out.
This device looks to do a LOT of the more difficult numbers (like the drag of the car) so you just enter in the more basic and easier to find info to get a good chart out.
Wow - a qualified, objective, fact-based analysis, presented clearly and dispassionately. If I knew absolutely nothing about the history of human civilization, I'd say that kind of thing would take off.
Lol, I need to shout more
@@DarksideDevelopments I'm in the States. We just love hearing y'all talk, regardless of amplitude.
Forget the lads name in passenger seat but he’s a legend ☝️ diagnosed my 1 series abs issue in about 30 seconds last time I was up 😂 have to let him have a go in the legendary n52 next time I’m over if you’ll allow him a nice 30 min break 😉😎
It's expensive, but so are the parts we use to increase horsepower and performance. It's a great tool for testing new performance parts to determine if they are worth the time and investment instead of having to pay for Dyno pulls. I'm not completely sold since I haven't seen the item promoted in the US. What I have seen is basically a $10.00 cell phone program that is advertised to basically do the same thing. I'm even more skeptical, but my potential loss if it doesn't work is $10.00. I'm guessing it determines time and vehicle motion instead of actual wheel speed. Both mini Dynos require a setup regarding weight, etc. I see this review was several months ago. I'm wondering if any new tests have been posted. Thank you for your review
I own a few project cars. This tool would be amazing to have when getting baselines for tuning. this would pay for its self on all my projects.
It's actually impressive, because not all place can do dyno for cheap
I thought it was for motorcycles from the thumbnail. Disappointed it wasn't, but really enjoyed the concept and execution!
Measuring how fast the wheels rotate makes sense for measuring gains, I suppose there’s a formula for measuring power if you have a specific vehicle accelerating however fast. You could use g force, inertia, or RPM I suppose to measure power similar to a dyno.
Class as ever Ryan 👍love these test vids 🙌🙌🙌🙌😎keep them coming mate brilliant 😎😎😎
Cracking interesting vid nearly fainted when said cost of your setup WOW.👍👍👍
Just out of curiosity what if you test it while the cars on the dyno? Lol
We thought that after, lol
That won't work since the device uses the cars weight to calculate horsepower, while the dyno uses the rollers weights.
Wont work. The dyno has a set or known resistance/load to calculate power from acceleration, this device doesnt, you need the constant rolling resistance of the Road to properly calculate power.
It won’t work !
On a dyno you will most likely not get the correct roll resistance as you will have the dyno rollers resistance aswell nor that it won’t provide you with windresistance either.
@justan idiot yeah, that one actually get's calculated in as part of the calibration it does at the end where it says to put it in neutral. it's all going off of acceleration of the wheel, so it'll be able to factor in wind resistance with its calculations
This device definitely wouldn't work on a rolling dyno. You would get really wonky readings since you're moving the rollers inertia
You could make money with this thing renting it out an hour at a time at the track.
that torque at such a low rpm must be fun in that little car
RPM and Air Fuel reading is key! and YES you can get that from a factory OBDll ecu.
Would it even be a darkside dyno video if it didn’t contain the beep?
Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep
@@DarksideDevelopments I remember the anger and frustration in the early days of the channel every time it went off. I think you’d miss it if it were gone now 😂
For a thousand euros, thats pretty good, at least the thing is accurate, Rj in Oz
It's terrible. You can do the same thing more accurately with an OBD2 adapter and an app like Torque Pro which is cheap af. This is just a glorified bluetooth wheel speed sensor.
Very impressed with this 👍🏻
That was definitely a suprise great vid 👍
It's 12:30 am gotta be up at 6:30 and I'm watching a video on TH-cam of some English man testing a DIY dyno lol. I'm going to bed!
Lol
Would be interesting to also compare this on the same car with an OBD power/dyno app like torque power for example which would using wheel speed rate change and GPS to calculate power?
Sadly, we have tested this thing straight after a dyno.
Didnt get results near as the real dyno.
Trying new software on the thing, maybe it will make a differene.
Pulled 192kw on the real dyno with 4th gear.
On the road, pulld 122kw with the same gear, straight even road..
I hope it something to do with the software
Tried automatic calibration and manual..didnt make any difference
Weight 100% Accurate?
@@DarksideDevelopments Yes.
We weighted the car,added me and my friend too.
We updated the software, tested the thing on both front wheels, to be sure.
Its a M47D20 E46 110kw version.
We just cant get the numbers we hope to see.
Went through your video couple of times, numerous manual readings..still cant figure it out
Strange, I just presented what I saw, this was 1 take. When weight was wrong power was wrong too from Tom's previous testing.
Lots of drag guys tune on the strip for real world conditions. Wonder if this could be useful there
Cool idea, but it's redundant. You can do this with the Torque Pro app and a bluetooth OBD2 module; it does the exact same thing, but it uses the wheel speed sensor data, RPM etc, and you punch in the vehicle weight and all the rest.
A bluetooth wideband that you cam just stick in the exhaust pipe so you have Air Fuel on the graph would be great. Just an idea. Someone go make it. Lol
You finance it I'll make it and we'll split the profits 50/50
@@StrangeTerror only if I had the money. Lol
Looks interesting although I think it must need some flat road for it to be accurate.
Probably doesn't need to be level, but of a consistent gradient.
Like, it would probably work going up or down a hill, so long as the hill doesnt change gradient halfway through the run.
But yeah, didnt think of that till you mentioned it.
@@Nbomber So you think even if it’s a +10 % gradient the “power” measurement will be the same as a -10% gradient, despite the acceleration of the wheel/vehicle being drastically different?
@@andyjonathan2486 theoretically yes, because the system measures the rolling resistance.
So long as the gradient doesnt change halfway through the run, the power needed to overcome the rolling resistance will be measured the same.
@@Nbomber the unit likely relies on accelerometers to calculate power, unlike automotive engineering grade telemetry products using strain gages capturing shear strains on the axle. For an uphill measurement the engine power will be converted into potential energy during the climb, and their unit will read low. On a downhill measurement, the conversion of potential energy of the vehicle mass will be converted into kinetic energy and the unit will read high. I agree there likely are correction factors in their iPhone app applied which approximate drag losses and rolling resistance losses. However, as it’s an inertial based unit, likely beginning a test at 10mph will yield different results than 100mph.
If this unit has cracked some new technology that the major automotive measurement companies (AVL, HBM, FEV, Kistler, Datron, etc), they could sell it and make millions. It would be great if this new company found a new novel technology, however looks like a G-TechPro performance meter.
Also, this unit it not directly measuring power, but rather calculates power from velocity, acceleration and inertia equations and smoothing filters.
@@Nbomber All other factors equal sure. But they're not. This is why NHRA requires a certain level to a track. Uphill v Downhill will certainly yield diff results. That same car will accelerate faster downhill and that device whit no way to know gradient will interpret that as more power.
The most important part isnt showing the exact hp, but rather to show stable stats, so you can tune it properly
the big dyno is 250k? damn i though they were like 50k tops
The building!
@@DarksideDevelopments I see, lol
Had an indi shop use this on my A6 3.0TFSI and was spot on in terms of expected HP/ torque gains after remapping.
Only don't recall if results were actual engine HP/torque or to the wheels??
I believe the figures are still at the flywheel
@@DarksideDevelopments ok great! That certainly good to know.
Thanks for the quick response.
Holy s****, its 2290€
Hi There, Yes that was the full price, today on offer at 990€ magicmotorsport.shop/en/shop/chiptuning/dynoroad-car-test.html
Thank you for showing. Does someone know if there is a similar product for motorcycles or can I even used it somehow for motorcycles?
Should also work with obd or other way to sync rpm easier.
Can’t find these for sale anywhere… what happened to em?
Not too sure to be honest, first we've heard
Do you have to put them plates on at 4:16 every time you get a car off the dyno??
Yes it's very annoying, we need to finish our lift kit!
@@DarksideDevelopments bloody hell that would get boring fast! 🤣
I'm not surprised this is pretty darn accurate. I mean Newtons 2nd law is not that complicated. I do think the price is pretty steep for a device that essentially does nothing more than measuring RPM and (de)acceleration, solving F=ma and then plots a pretty graph. Sure, there's more to it than just the hardware, but still.
First time watching your channel. I was confused with your accent and you using HP and lb-ft rather than KW and NM. Good video btw
old school here, we dont use that metric crap! Except for tape measures!
Nice peice of kit for sure, very impressive accurracy! BUT for the €1000 I could go do an actual dyno about 7 times and I don’t think I would need to dyno my car more than that 🤷🏼♂️
what if you were a business offering mobile dyno testing? then you roll up with a gadget in your pocket
That is flippen amazing
Interesting bit of innovation
Should use this while on the dyno? See how the figures change?!
It won't work!
Not a bad bit of kit bud I'd still rather pay for a dyno sesh 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Compared to the price of a dynamic it's quite affordable and looks to be quite accurate, still, over $1000 usd for what is essentially an accelerometer and an app is crazy to me. I think this will make a big difference for a lot of people though.
Would love to see what it says on my BMW 1 Series 116i F20. It’s been mapped and I have a dyno print out. I wouldn’t buy it as how often would I use it. Renting one to see if a recent bolt on mod, clean, service, tyres, fuel changes thing absolutely
Reyt then
2021’s u wot m8
Reyt daino chune
What a clever idea 💡.
I like it, but I was surprised of the cost of the system. Yes there's R&D, but that doesn't justify the price. It's about 70 euros at most in materials...
If they were to offer this for around 200 euros I'd be happy to buy it, with many others I think.
Since its only worth 200$, then i guess you could make one in a day no problem
@@MaksimIzerif you intend to make thousands of these they will cost you way less. That's what they do :)
Very impressive!!
Quite surprised at the results to be fair may be worth investing in
How accurate would it be in second gear? I don't quite have the road for third gear
Low power car maybe it would work?
@@DarksideDevelopments Most of the cars here are sub 200hp if you are thinking of that.
As long as it's not wheelspinning
And for 10 euros you got the perfexpert that does about the same….anyways thanks for the review it was interesting to have another option .Regards
That's all this will be some sort of of cheap sensor like you have in your phone with some ok software.
It didn’t say “clutch in” it said put it in neutral. Have you tried it that way?
Same difference really
does this still have the original injectors ?
Yes
Cool bit of kit!
I’m not really sure what this achieves over a cheap OBD app other than measuring pressure and temperature (I bet if you got your brakes nice and hot before a run you could make some extra power), but £1000 to not have to plug the gear ratios in (but be using a direct reading of engine RPM rather than calculating it from the wheel) and have a slightly more accurate reading of press, temp and speed?
I want an app where I hook my phone to the wheel. It’s got accelerometers right?
my question, what happens when you brake traction with a pull like this?
you will have a funny graph!
once these things can be cheaper they will def be worth it, right now at 1200 usd it a bit much considering tune appointments average around 400 but if this thing hits sub 800 its gonna be a hell of a tool
Hi you can go on mot web suit to find out brake weights. On brake system
Wow impressive test 👏
I don't see much advantage over other "virtual dynos". As long as you have accurate gps or can read actual vehicle speed with good enough resolution from OBD you would get the same result...
That thing is amazing! Unfortunately the cost is an issue for us normal folk that could use it.
Amazing software will done, but its way more expensive for measuring horsepower only and doesn't keep you away from using dyno because knowing the horsepower is not the only purpose.
It gave the torque value as well...
How does it know what the drag resistance is when cruising down or does it calculate with standard drag coefficient? Either way it works .
Clutch in and coast
The measured rate of deceleration is all that matters, it'll account for rolling resistance and drag combined, no need to input the drag coefficient.
So I’ve been trolling their site for quite a while now and cannot find this product, can anyone post a new link or a similar product? This os exactly what I’ve been searching for
Not sure whats happened with it unfortunately, doesn't appear to be selling anywhere
18mo later... Do you still use this and find it a helpful tool?
we have a real dyno but this is good for the taller vans that wont fit in our cell!
@@DarksideDevelopments Thanks for the reply!
So it's basically a 1k wireless wheel speed sensor and an app? Damn.
Very interesting video,thanks
Will you be doing more videos with this Fabia?
Maybe?
very clever piece of kit, does it work on 4x4 cars?
Hi Anthony, Yes it does, mounted on the front wheels, to avoid wheels spin best to do it on higher gears
@@danielevento511 my AWD spins the front wheels because of weight transfer.
@@Thomamps You can change the settings in the app, do it in 4th gear or at higher RPM, normal 4wd cars have 60% at the back and 40% at the front, but if different you can always change the settings on the software to adapt
@@danielevento511
You are wrong, the manufacturer recommends mounting on the rear wheels so as not to mount on a wheel that turns! The measurement was wrong. I have such a dyno and I always mount it on the rear!
The only problem with this device that people seem to forget including MMS is it is basically promoting speeding 😅
Everyone times their cars to go 60mph, didn't you know?
@@DarksideDevelopments of course 😂🤭
great...See not reason why it would not work, though it is tricky with weight and accelerometers do need calibration from time to time I guess. But makes me wonder, how does application account for wind resistance and road inclinations. On dyno car is standing still, on the road wind will pay a role, more so if car is not aerodynamic, also it can be tricky to spot if road is downhill or up hill if inclination is small. if one can control input parameters really good I am sure it can be very precise as shown, but it can also produce quite bad data if one does not understand how all is really calculated.
That thing is Badass!
They need to add a bluetooth OBD adapter to make calibration less prone to human error.
Test and endorse the original product DynoPRO. Magic Motorsport is just a big rebranding gig , twitch the interface a bit, throw some paint on it and bam *new product*. Just like with Gys battery support and its accessories
It does look similar
DynoPro is the original
Original or not. It's good to have alternatives. Maybe competition will bring prices down.
PS. Insoric is been around maybe 6 years or so.
DynoPro has been around for 4 years. Cost was 2600euro when I got it.
Competition is a good thing, however buying a product and just rebranding is not competition.
@@GrvGarageTrue. White label products does not make prices to change.
How can the HP and torque curves not cross at 5252 RPM? I thought that was a mathematical certainty.
Scale has to be same to see that
So how many runs did they do to get that number closest to the dyno?
3 or 4 testing how accurate the weight needed to be, as explained in the video
Discount code didnt work? can you supply these in the uk??
Email us and we will sort with Magic!
Hi there Turbo, you need to register with you address and details, then apply the discount code and It will work!
The puck wasnt centered perfect with the wheel. Wobbled. I wonder if that affects the test
Its a nice tool. I use dynopro same manifactor of dynoroad. What i like with dynopro is the obd dongle so there is no calibration needed. It used engine parameters. Also it has a tablet where parameters are shown and can be logged on.
What correction do you use? SAE or DIN?
Whatever was factory settings.
@@DarksideDevelopments ah oke. Dynopro can swith to real, DIN, SAE etc for correction.
And whats your opinion for a system like this to use as a starter in tuning? And do you guys also have a file service for customers?
I think it's a good beginner tool, especially for people using our software to confirm it!
Road tuning just got so much better, however I will say though I was genuinely speechless when I saw the price!!!
It is expensive...
Hi There, Yes that was the full price, today on offer at 990€ magicmotorsport.shop/en/shop/chiptuning/dynoroad-car-test.html
How well does it work for autos
Same!
So darkside how much would it be for a go on that then am definitely up for a go 😁😁
Email us!
Really cool, but can't do it for that price. It would be cool if I could rent one for a day.
Wow so thousands of pounds worth of dyno is the same as a little device strapped to wheel
It's still almost £2.5k though 😭
@@BigHumz155 still £47.5k cheaper than a dyno tho an the rest
@@BigHumz155 He said 1000 euros which is approx £870 pounds sterling
@@bradmarshall8363 Yeah and the rest being another 200k
@@BigHumz155 Hi There, Yes that was the full price, today on offer at 990€ magicmotorsport.shop/en/shop/chiptuning/dynoroad-car-test.html
Discount code doesnt work, unfortunately.
Email us and we will sort it with Magic!
Hi Michel, you've gotta register and login, then it will :)
So, is there any way this is better than a G-TECH that retails for $400 USD?
Test perfexpert vs dyno.
9:12 woops think you forgot to blur something out guys haha
Nope, we said we tested already to see how sensitive it was to weight. If that was exactly correct, power was too. We didn't need to put it in but nothing to hide!
@@DarksideDevelopments Wow, wasn't expecting a reply! :) I was only talking about the speed but I don't mind and that was obviously all from when you tested it on the track :) Btw thank you for the love for 1.6 I enjoy watching videos related to that engine dreaming of mine making 250hp+!
Anything over 60 is done at the track of course!
Interesting. Our system goes on drive or harf shafts. Not cheap either though
Although ours gives a live realtime readout of engine (not wheel) torque at all times.