Thanks for bringing Dr Ashenden back on. Catholic Unscripted is an important cultural and religious interlocutor in these chaotic times. Thanks always for your great insights Dr Chapp.
Thank you for addressing this topic!! You guys nailed it in so many ways. It’s a spiritual battle out there good vs evil. The whole point of being a Catholic is to strive towards Holiness and imitate Jesus Christ. How are people supposed to accomplish this when they are not being encouraged to repent from their sins. This synod is not needed and is very dangerous. Thank you both for taking a very good righteous stance on the matter. God Bless. 🙏❤️
Gavin at one point says, "once Church teaching has been changed". Defined Church dogma is irreformable. It is not in any Popes gift to change Church teaching as is set out quite clearly in Pastor Aeternus. The Popes job is to safeguard Church teaching and to propagate it. If any Pope attempts to change Church teaching it is obligatory for those faithful to the Church's teaching to disobey him and to continue to adhere to the Faith as handed down. In other words when the CCC says that the state has no right to execute criminals it is false and must be ignored.
I experienced syodality first hand as an Episcopalian before my conversion. Nothing good will come of it. The Episcopal Church USA is running on fumes, investments and little else. There will be nothing left in 10-20 years.
to Sr Elizabeth Mary Hermit, what will be left is consecrated marriage, celibate and male female in its roles - identity exercising an absolute power of simultaneous authorisations of ensuring and/or insuring its procreation role gifts of church and state helpers of the family in a triple trinitarian keeping in uncertainty of belief of "I AM WHO I AM" (Exodus 3:14).
Thomas Halik: The Tablet 7 September 2024 Synodal reform must be more than a mere continuation of the line of the Second Vatican Council. It must open up space for the mission of the Church in a postmodern age of radical plurality. Pope Francis has identified synodal reform as the Church’s programme for the third millennium. Synodality is to be the form of the Church throughout its future history - to its final eschatological consummation. It is a journey through history into the arms of God. To regard any particular state of society or of the Church, of scientific or of theological knowledge, as final and unchangeable is to succumb to the temptation of triumphalism. Triumphalism consists in mistaking the present imperfect state of the Church in history (ecclesia militans) for its eschatological form, the ecclesia triumphans, the perfect Church of the saints in heaven. The heresy of triumphalism is often accompanied by paternalism, clericalism, fundamentalism and traditionalism. Paternalism forgets that the teaching Church must also be a learning Church. Clericalism is a manifestation of “worldliness” - it understands authority in the Church as worldly power, not as ministry. The bearers of this ministry then behave like a “ruling class” or upper caste, separated in many of their actions and lifestyles from the whole of God’s people. Fundamentalism forgets that here we see and understand “only in part, as in a mirror and in riddles” (1 Corinthians 13:12). The images presented to us by scripture and tradition are icons for meditation, means of adoration of the Mystery; not idols that need no further interpretation. Fundamentalism objectifies and flattens the mystery of faith, of binding it into the shape of a closed ideological system. And traditionalism is a denial of the meaning of tradition as a living, creative transmission of faith. It is a heresy in the original sense of the word, an arbitrary selection - it takes a certain historically conditioned form of the Church or of its doctrine out of context and absolutises it. Faithfulness to the faith is a commitment to courageously, creatively and responsibly revive and transform the forms of its expression so as to enable its content to be communicated in an intelligible and credible way. Both the abundance of responsible theological reflection and the variety of practical examples of living the faith reveal the inexhaustible richness of the “treasure of faith” and the inexhaustible variety of its authentic interpretations. The synodal development of the Church will show, in the words of Pope Francis, many new ways of being Christian, and new - and unexpected - ways of being the Church in the world. All attempts to shackle the freedom of the Spirit of God, to reduce the richness of God’s self-expression and to enclose it in a rigid, closed ideological system, run the risk of the gravest sin: the sin against the Holy Spirit.
@oliverclark5604 No, it is part of Satan's drive to destroy the essence of the male female unit of human procreation to satisfy Satan's beastial hatred of the Divine Trinitarial God of creation and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Dr Chapp says that people see the ressourcement as reactionary. I'm sure some do, but there is notable and growing opposition from Traditionalists who see it as disastrously liberal (Bishop Schneider in various books and pronouncements; Archbishop Vigano who has taken to pulling down Pope Benedict XVI's reputation, aided by Taylor Marshall). Some Traditionalists take a contrary view.
If what you say could happen in the upcoming synod, what will happen in the Church? Where would I go? What would happen to the efficacy of the Sacraments?
@bmc8871 It's not the only sin that people ignore in our country. Sins regarding money, gossip, slander, detraction, judgement of soul, hatred, cowardice, sins of omission, etc
@@stephenchelius7461we too had noticed, brother. It is as bad as you say and, no, you don't need medication for some neurotic delusion but rather, probably a whiskey after dinner.
@@karinmaryturner please don’t lie. Pope Francis is completely disinterested in discussion and dialogue. Synodality is designed to destroy the Church’s teachings.
The roman catholic position on thinking mind/reason and having faith/heart until Pope Francis and his synodality was contraceptive as not "of one heart and mind" (NIV Acts 4:32).
Synodality is not democracy per se. Consecrated marriage, celibate vowed to man in Christ or male female vowed to God in the keeping in uncertainty of belief of their inseparability and qualitative equality, in exercising an absolute power of simultaneous authorisations of ensuring procreation role gifts and insuring need of union of identity is the Synodal "Magisterium" as keeping unity of processes of thinking and progress in having faith that in their multiplication is the "I AM WHO I AM" (Exodus 3:14).
"clumsy"? (Ashenden). "Speak God's mind into the situation" (Ashenden)? Ashenden is worse than clumsy in separating "one heart and mind" (NIV Acts 4:32).
I too find Mr. Marshall quite off the deep end; I surmise while he has become Catholic he continues to bring with him certain Protestant takes on the nature of the church, the kind of thing where there is an ever seeking of a more authentic church and the consequent division from that. Like Trad or rad Tred or whatever Vs, the evil Novus Ordo mass or people, or whatever. There are indeed serious problems in the church and, in my estimation with the performance of this papacy; however, Marshall and others are on an odd basically Protestant-Catholic hybrid. As far as Gavin is concerned, and even Mr. Marshall they do indeed point out real problems and they do indeed have some important things to say. The heart of the matter is one of scandal and sin which has scandalized the lay faithful and injured trust in leadership, to a large extent the Trad thing is a result of deliberately unrecognized problems that are inconvenient to the leadership, which, in many respects is a left-leaning mentality these days. The new mass is really not what was anticipated or desired by the council and the TLM is also not it. There are a lot of problems, all of which are heightened by a lying media and frankly the smoke of Satan. There is much rebuilding to do. Best wishes!
@@johnjon1823 marshall like many converts came to the Church looking for the authentic apostolic faith and was met with something much more traditional than evangelicalism but not by as much as he hoped. I’m with him in as far as I didn’t come to the Church to face the exact same problems that the non denominationals face. We want to be authentically Catholic, not a boomer Catholic
There is that very protestant tendency in trads to take it upon themselves to sift through the tradition to find the "real church" as it was before it "all went wrong", rather than sticking it out and praying for the real living Mother Church with all her sinfulness and problems. It's a dead end, because you ultimately end up with a ton of splinter grounds claiming to have the "real McCoy" (note the way that SSPX has already fragmented in one generation). It always devolves into sectarianism. We must endure the Good the Bad and the Ugly with our Mother Church.
@@Vinsanity997 To be Catholic is, for many today, a more difficult task. There are many competing voices proclaiming this or that direction, this or that essential thing, often while the voices of those charged with the power and obligation to teach and care for the flock are absent. One must recognize that today, due to sin, there exists nearly universally a distrust in any and all authority and any and all institutions be they secular or religious. It is, for many, a pick and choose scenario, since often the light seems hidden. It is Truth itself that is not proclaimed; it is Truth itself which is denied. The light today is indeed darkness, and how dark that is. It is my belief that this state is the fruit of dramatically bad sins within and without the church coupled with little needed repentance, or even calls to repent of anything. When one considers that in the US alone, well over 60 million murders of children is in fact a heinous crime, far in excess of the Nazi regime, and rivalling all the previous crimes of all communists combined, excepting perhaps the Chinese communists, there must needs be a darkening and diminution of all good things societal, and indeed the church herself. All of the above gives us confusion and division no matter our location in the body of Christ; Paul VI I believe called it the smoke of Satan. Indeed, and it is we who have provided him with more dark incense from hell to burn by our murders of the babies, and all our sins. We all smell the stink. However, in such a situation of smoke, sin, and darkness, one must take care. One must surrender all to Christ, as Christ surrendered all to the Father in the garden. Like Him we too seek His apostles to accompany us in prayer, even for one hour, yet, like then they sleep. Surely, we know what the head suffered so must the body. There will be mini crucifixions for the church in history and over time, until the final days, when it will happen for the last time. I am aware of Catholics, fallen Catholics and non-Catholics, there is nothing else. Various monikers and other recent labels meant to be somehow descriptive demographically or impute some form or kind of spiritual state or even some special savvy of things Catholic and Spiritual are in fact not the Catholic approach at all. No, there are no "boomer Catholics" nor "Trads" nor "NO" Catholics; there are merely Catholics and fallen Catholics and non-Catholics. Don't let the smoke make you call out a near or distant shadowy figure in the dark haze as an enemy or friend, don't presume your location is less hazy and less smokey than others, leave it to Christ to clear the air; leave it to Him to end the darkness. Who knows, it may all be a prelude and practice for 3 days of darkness in another way. Keep the catechism, the scripture, Our Lady and the Rosary and the sacraments and you will keep the true faith, even if all deny it, but they all wont. The church is here, it will be here until the end and then it will be in eternity forever. There is no destroying the Faith. I like the new catechism but for straight talk, i like the Baltimore Catechism. Best wishes, God bless!
Gavin at one point says, "once Church teaching has been changed". Defined Church dogma is irreformable. It is not in any Popes gift to change Church teaching as is set out quite clearly in Pastor Aeternus. The Popes job is to safeguard Church teaching and to propagate it. If any Pope attempts to change Church teaching it is obligatory for those faithful to the Church's teaching to disobey him and to continue to adhere to the Faith as handed down. In other words when the CCC says that the state has no right to execute criminals it is false and must be ignored.
Thank you both, great to listen in hear. God bless.
Mercy is what Pope Francis asks of the Church ~ Thank you Gavin 🙏 speaking the mind of God into the culture ~ incapacity to accept Original Sin.
Thanks for bringing Dr Ashenden back on. Catholic Unscripted is an important cultural and religious interlocutor in these chaotic times. Thanks always for your great insights Dr Chapp.
Excellent through and through!
Great guest! Thank you
Thank you for addressing this topic!! You guys nailed it in so many ways. It’s a spiritual battle out there good vs evil. The whole point of being a Catholic is to strive towards Holiness and imitate Jesus Christ. How are people supposed to accomplish this when they are not being encouraged to repent from their sins. This synod is not needed and is very dangerous. Thank you both for taking a very good righteous stance on the matter. God Bless. 🙏❤️
21:00 this analysis of the situation is most valuable
Wonderful discussion- thank you.
Gavin at one point says, "once Church teaching has been changed". Defined Church dogma is irreformable. It is not in any Popes gift to change Church teaching as is set out quite clearly in Pastor Aeternus. The Popes job is to safeguard Church teaching and to propagate it. If any Pope attempts to change Church teaching it is obligatory for those faithful to the Church's teaching to disobey him and to continue to adhere to the Faith as handed down. In other words when the CCC says that the state has no right to execute criminals it is false and must be ignored.
I experienced syodality first hand as an Episcopalian before my conversion. Nothing good will come of it. The Episcopal Church USA is running on fumes, investments and little else. There will be nothing left in 10-20 years.
to Sr Elizabeth Mary Hermit, what will be left is consecrated marriage, celibate and male female in its roles - identity exercising an absolute power of simultaneous authorisations of ensuring and/or insuring its procreation role gifts of church and state helpers of the family in a triple trinitarian keeping in uncertainty of belief of "I AM WHO I AM" (Exodus 3:14).
Thomas Halik: The Tablet 7 September 2024
Synodal reform must be more than a mere continuation of the line of the Second Vatican Council. It must open up space for the mission of the Church in a postmodern age of radical plurality. Pope Francis has identified synodal reform as the Church’s programme for the third millennium. Synodality is to be the form of the Church throughout its future history - to its final eschatological consummation. It is a journey through history into the arms of God.
To regard any particular state of society or of the Church, of scientific or of theological knowledge, as final and unchangeable is to succumb to the temptation of triumphalism. Triumphalism consists in mistaking the present imperfect state of the Church in history (ecclesia militans) for its eschatological form, the ecclesia triumphans, the perfect Church of the saints in heaven. The heresy of triumphalism is often accompanied by paternalism, clericalism, fundamentalism and traditionalism. Paternalism forgets that the teaching Church must also be a learning Church. Clericalism is a manifestation of “worldliness” - it understands authority in the Church as worldly power, not as ministry. The bearers of this ministry then behave like a “ruling class” or upper caste, separated in many of their actions and lifestyles from the whole of God’s people. Fundamentalism forgets that here we see and understand “only in part, as in a mirror and in riddles” (1 Corinthians 13:12). The images presented to us by scripture and tradition are icons for meditation, means of adoration of the Mystery; not idols that need no further interpretation. Fundamentalism objectifies and flattens the mystery of faith, of binding it into the shape of a closed ideological system. And traditionalism is a denial of the meaning of tradition as a living, creative transmission of faith. It is a heresy in the original sense of the word, an arbitrary selection - it takes a certain historically conditioned form of the Church or of its doctrine out of context and absolutises it.
Faithfulness to the faith is a commitment to courageously, creatively and responsibly revive and transform the forms of its expression so as to enable its content to be communicated in an intelligible and credible way. Both the abundance of responsible theological reflection and the variety of practical examples of living the faith reveal the inexhaustible richness of the “treasure of faith” and the inexhaustible variety of its authentic interpretations. The synodal development of the Church will show, in the words of Pope Francis, many new ways of being Christian, and new - and unexpected - ways of being the Church in the world. All attempts to shackle the freedom of the Spirit of God, to reduce the richness of God’s self-expression and to enclose it in a rigid, closed ideological system, run the risk of the gravest sin: the sin against the Holy Spirit.
@oliverclark5604
No, it is part of Satan's drive to destroy the essence of the male female unit of human procreation to satisfy Satan's beastial hatred of the Divine Trinitarial God of creation and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The cancer of communism etc will only be defeated when sufficient faithful fulfill Our Lady's request to practice the First Five Saturday's Devotion.
That is not true!
It is only the Devotion of the Seven Consecutive Fifth Tuesdays that will save us.
Dr Chapp says that people see the ressourcement as reactionary. I'm sure some do, but there is notable and growing opposition from Traditionalists who see it as disastrously liberal (Bishop Schneider in various books and pronouncements; Archbishop Vigano who has taken to pulling down Pope Benedict XVI's reputation, aided by Taylor Marshall). Some Traditionalists take a contrary view.
If what you say could happen in the upcoming synod, what will happen in the Church? Where would I go? What would happen to the efficacy of the Sacraments?
20:06 "Dignitas Aeternum"? Does Ashenden mean "Dignitas Infinita", DDF, 2 April 2024?
Is usury still a sin? If it is not, why should sodomy still be?
Yes it is. Who ever said it wasnt.
@@stephenchelius7461 Most people don’t even know what it is, let alone consider it comparable to sodomy.
@bmc8871 It's not the only sin that people ignore in our country. Sins regarding money, gossip, slander, detraction, judgement of soul, hatred, cowardice, sins of omission, etc
@@stephenchelius7461we too had noticed, brother. It is as bad as you say and, no, you don't need medication for some neurotic delusion but rather, probably a whiskey after dinner.
Dialogue: Do as I say and don’t argue.
Discussion is the word NOT argue ! Pope Francis wishes Catholics to discuss with each other 🕊️🙏
@@karinmaryturner please don’t lie. Pope Francis is completely disinterested in discussion and dialogue. Synodality is designed to destroy the Church’s teachings.
Rome will lose the faith.
The roman catholic position on thinking mind/reason and having faith/heart until Pope Francis and his synodality was contraceptive as not "of one heart and mind" (NIV Acts 4:32).
Synodality is not democracy per se. Consecrated marriage, celibate vowed to man in Christ or male female vowed to God in the keeping in uncertainty of belief of their inseparability and qualitative equality, in exercising an absolute power of simultaneous authorisations of ensuring procreation role gifts and insuring need of union of identity is the Synodal "Magisterium" as keeping unity of processes of thinking and progress in having faith that in their multiplication is the "I AM WHO I AM" (Exodus 3:14).
"clumsy"? (Ashenden). "Speak God's mind into the situation" (Ashenden)? Ashenden is worse than clumsy in separating "one heart and mind" (NIV Acts 4:32).
I stopped listening to Gavin after he bowed at the feet of Taylor Marshall.
Why?
I too find Mr. Marshall quite off the deep end; I surmise while he has become Catholic he continues to bring with him certain Protestant takes on the nature of the church, the kind of thing where there is an ever seeking of a more authentic church and the consequent division from that. Like Trad or rad Tred or whatever Vs, the evil Novus Ordo mass or people, or whatever. There are indeed serious problems in the church and, in my estimation with the performance of this papacy; however, Marshall and others are on an odd basically Protestant-Catholic hybrid.
As far as Gavin is concerned, and even Mr. Marshall they do indeed point out real problems and they do indeed have some important things to say. The heart of the matter is one of scandal and sin which has scandalized the lay faithful and injured trust in leadership, to a large extent the Trad thing is a result of deliberately unrecognized problems that are inconvenient to the leadership, which, in many respects is a left-leaning mentality these days.
The new mass is really not what was anticipated or desired by the council and the TLM is also not it. There are a lot of problems, all of which are heightened by a lying media and frankly the smoke of Satan. There is much rebuilding to do.
Best wishes!
@@johnjon1823 marshall like many converts came to the Church looking for the authentic apostolic faith and was met with something much more traditional than evangelicalism but not by as much as he hoped. I’m with him in as far as I didn’t come to the Church to face the exact same problems that the non denominationals face. We want to be authentically Catholic, not a boomer Catholic
There is that very protestant tendency in trads to take it upon themselves to sift through the tradition to find the "real church" as it was before it "all went wrong", rather than sticking it out and praying for the real living Mother Church with all her sinfulness and problems. It's a dead end, because you ultimately end up with a ton of splinter grounds claiming to have the "real McCoy" (note the way that SSPX has already fragmented in one generation). It always devolves into sectarianism. We must endure the Good the Bad and the Ugly with our Mother Church.
@@Vinsanity997 To be Catholic is, for many today, a more difficult task. There are many competing voices proclaiming this or that direction, this or that essential thing, often while the voices of those charged with the power and obligation to teach and care for the flock are absent.
One must recognize that today, due to sin, there exists nearly universally a distrust in any and all authority and any and all institutions be they secular or religious. It is, for many, a pick and choose scenario, since often the light seems hidden. It is Truth itself that is not proclaimed; it is Truth itself which is denied. The light today is indeed darkness, and how dark that is.
It is my belief that this state is the fruit of dramatically bad sins within and without the church coupled with little needed repentance, or even calls to repent of anything. When one considers that in the US alone, well over 60 million murders of children is in fact a heinous crime, far in excess of the Nazi regime, and rivalling all the previous crimes of all communists combined, excepting perhaps the Chinese communists, there must needs be a darkening and diminution of all good things societal, and indeed the church herself. All of the above gives us confusion and division no matter our location in the body of Christ; Paul VI I believe called it the smoke of Satan. Indeed, and it is we who have provided him with more dark incense from hell to burn by our murders of the babies, and all our sins. We all smell the stink.
However, in such a situation of smoke, sin, and darkness, one must take care. One must surrender all to Christ, as Christ surrendered all to the Father in the garden. Like Him we too seek His apostles to accompany us in prayer, even for one hour, yet, like then they sleep. Surely, we know what the head suffered so must the body. There will be mini crucifixions for the church in history and over time, until the final days, when it will happen for the last time.
I am aware of Catholics, fallen Catholics and non-Catholics, there is nothing else. Various monikers and other recent labels meant to be somehow descriptive demographically or impute some form or kind of spiritual state or even some special savvy of things Catholic and Spiritual are in fact not the Catholic approach at all.
No, there are no "boomer Catholics" nor "Trads" nor "NO" Catholics; there are merely Catholics and fallen Catholics and non-Catholics. Don't let the smoke make you call out a near or distant shadowy figure in the dark haze as an enemy or friend, don't presume your location is less hazy and less smokey than others, leave it to Christ to clear the air; leave it to Him to end the darkness. Who knows, it may all be a prelude and practice for 3 days of darkness in another way.
Keep the catechism, the scripture, Our Lady and the Rosary and the sacraments and you will keep the true faith, even if all deny it, but they all wont. The church is here, it will be here until the end and then it will be in eternity forever. There is no destroying the Faith. I like the new catechism but for straight talk, i like the Baltimore Catechism.
Best wishes, God bless!
Gavin at one point says, "once Church teaching has been changed". Defined Church dogma is irreformable. It is not in any Popes gift to change Church teaching as is set out quite clearly in Pastor Aeternus. The Popes job is to safeguard Church teaching and to propagate it. If any Pope attempts to change Church teaching it is obligatory for those faithful to the Church's teaching to disobey him and to continue to adhere to the Faith as handed down. In other words when the CCC says that the state has no right to execute criminals it is false and must be ignored.
Pope Francis has not changed any Church Dogma .
Ashenden is on dangerous ground ….