Man and woman of God, you both nailed it once again! I wonder how many Institutions He wouldn't rebuke? Every sincere Pastor should preach: "are we a Church who needs to be rebuked?"
I think as believers throughout history we have always over corrected and ended up right back where we shouldn’t have been. Maybe if we spent more time saying “ I don’t know” or the “the Word doesn’t say” we wouldn’t feel compelled to fill in the “blanks” with our own culture. God bless
I just don’t think celebrity culture in church lines up with scripture. “Those of low estate are but a breath; those of high estate are a delusion; in the balances they go up; they are together lighter than a breath.” Psalm 62:9 ESV
Interesting topic…not sure if you’ve heard of Jonathan McReynolds, but he had a podcast called The Book of Jon where he tackled this issue, it’s still on YT called The Church VIP POV. His take was interesting as well.
Ive also been to churches where after service starts within the first ten minutes you see certain people being ushered in to a special seating area and now with cellphones and all people lose it in the sanctuary. The other issue is the pastors and top church officials announcing who is in the audience no mattter who they are . T I. Harris and wife come to mind while they attended a service at New Birth in the Atlanta area
I was told a story of a famous singer who happen to attend a church in LA while in town. They said he walked in and the ushers seated him in the back as he got there after service started. It said he asked why he sitting in that particular seat and wss yold uou got there late and we dont have special seating for particular people you get seated where you get seated . Said person was Kirk Franklin .
Wonder why the churches never teach about Revelation and the 7 churches? There were only 2 churches that were commended and praised by the Lord. The seven churches were real back then but also represent what the churches are like today.
Tbh, there’s no way a celebrity can have a normal worship experience if they weren’t segregated from the general public. Between selfies, people taking pictures of them while they’re worshipping, autograph requests, etc., theres just no way. I think segregating them is a necessity. You can’t expect Justin Bieber to go to Hillsong New York and not get mobbed…and how is that a useful worship experience for Justin
I appreciate the comments but don’t think yall really hear what you saying. Christians, who are supposed to be worshiping Jesus would not be able to keep themselves from taking selfies and pictures with celebrities? 🤔 Wow..
@ Nope, they won’t. Also, many people come to church who aren’t Christians…and a lot more would show up if they heard Kim K just shows up and sits anywhere
I agree with the original post. It's well possible that those who know the Lord and are in the church for the right reasons, could just go on with worship and be quite fine with a celebrity sitting nearby, not making any issue of it. But the world doesn't work that way. Any number of non-believers, even those who may never have set foot in a church before, would likely come for the wrong reasons, disrupting worship if they heard a celebrity usually goes there and they know that the church won't do anything to separate them from the normal worshipers. They would view that as the perfect opportunity for access. Those who have no life experience with church culture and no Christian background honestly don't know any better. This example is a different scenario, but similar in effect. Harriet Tubman's British Methodist Episcopal Church sits down the street from us in my neighborhood (we are just over the border in Canada and our city was the end of the Underground Railroad). The church is a historic site, but still an active place of worship. Unfortunately they have problems with people busting in on Sunday morning and interrupting the worship service for tourism. For those who don't have any church culture background, they have no concept of appropriate behavior. The church has to keep a sign on the door stating "Anyone who is here for Sunday morning worship is welcome to join us, but if you have another purpose for your visit, please arrange with the office to visit at a different time. We would appreciate it if you don't disrupt the worship service." I am completely against the celebrity box having anything special... As far as I am concerned they should get the same crackers and juice in plastic for communion. They should not have more comfortable chairs or special perks. But for the sake of others not interrupting the worship service...for their sake and the rest of the congregation, they do need to be separated. It's an unfortunate reality, but the only other two choices are to just allow the regular disruption of worship by fans who have no concept of appropriate behavior and respect for worshipers, or exclude the celebrity from going to church at all.
This is bizarre and is happening everywhere, politicians, judges, renowned businessmen, lawyers, and medical doctors, this is just crazy. Whoever dares to talk about this is labeled as envious by the clapping seals. BTW, it is not a bad idea to serve some nachos if everything continues like this that will be available pretty soon in a building called a church near you. Like some of the comments posted here with the bible references showing that is not correct but who are we to call this up? As you mentioned, many people are not allowed to have exposure but for whatever reason the "celebrities" which means: "whoever is perceived with money and influence" are the ones recognized and asked to be the leaders, speakers, sources of reference, etc. The rest? A bunch of people sitting there or working in the kitchen, parking, etc for many years, but not worthy to preach, teach, etc.
Just by these verses alone today’s churches should be obsolete and done away with. I think this is imperative that believers in Christ NEED to spend some time alone (like several months or whatever time) with God so that they can hear from Him alone (the Holy Spirit) and I would guarantee to you that that believer will come away with a different perspective of what the body of Christ really is. Matthew 23:9-12 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be [e]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be [f]exalted. Acts 17:23-27 Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one [j]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; James 1:26-27 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 2:1-9 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong? My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong? 8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. James 3: 1 3 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check. Ecclesiastes 12:12-14 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. 13 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. 14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
Matthew 6:6-7 6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.…
DEFINITELY, talk about sin vs unbelief. That’s gonna get you “in trouble” lol but man we gotta dig into Mark 1:15 and what “sin separating us from God” really means. That’ll be a good one.
Jesus is not looking at them differently. However, the reason for the segregation is us the normal people. We would be looking at them differently, recording them, admiring, etc. The segregation is so that they can enjoy the service, worship, and praise God without us people's interference....
Why would we be in church doing that, lol. That’s not a good thing if Christians are distracted by celebrities when they themselves are supposed to be worshiping.
Man and woman of God, you both nailed it once again! I wonder how many Institutions He wouldn't rebuke? Every sincere Pastor should preach: "are we a Church who needs to be rebuked?"
Amen sis.
Blessings..... appreciate the perspective of you both
Thank you! 🙏
I think as believers throughout history we have always over corrected and ended up right back where we shouldn’t have been. Maybe if we spent more time saying “ I don’t know” or the “the Word doesn’t say” we wouldn’t feel compelled to fill in the “blanks” with our own culture. God bless
Come on now.
Yep, this happens all the time
Sad but true.
I just don’t think celebrity culture in church lines up with scripture.
“Those of low estate are but a breath; those of high estate are a delusion; in the balances they go up; they are together lighter than a breath.”
Psalm 62:9 ESV
I agree. Definitely unbiblical.
Interesting topic…not sure if you’ve heard of Jonathan McReynolds, but he had a podcast called The Book of Jon where he tackled this issue, it’s still on YT called The Church VIP POV. His take was interesting as well.
Interesting. I’ll check it out.
Ive also been to churches where after service starts within the first ten minutes you see certain people being ushered in to a special seating area and now with cellphones and all people lose it in the sanctuary. The other issue is the pastors and top church officials announcing who is in the audience no mattter who they are . T I. Harris and wife come to mind while they attended a service at New Birth in the Atlanta area
I was told a story of a famous singer who happen to attend a church in LA while in town. They said he walked in and the ushers seated him in the back as he got there after service started. It said he asked why he sitting in that particular seat and wss yold uou got there late and we dont have special seating for particular people you get seated where you get seated . Said person was Kirk Franklin .
I think most churches in America 🇺🇸 will be rebuked. From the Megachurch, the Southern Baptist, the COGIC church, to the mom and pop church.
True 💯
I agree. This mindset is rampant in America no matter the size or denomination. It’s sad.
Wonder why the churches never teach about Revelation and the 7 churches? There were only 2 churches that were commended and praised by the Lord. The seven churches were real back then but also represent what the churches are like today.
Tbh, there’s no way a celebrity can have a normal worship experience if they weren’t segregated from the general public. Between selfies, people taking pictures of them while they’re worshipping, autograph requests, etc., theres just no way.
I think segregating them is a necessity. You can’t expect Justin Bieber to go to Hillsong New York and not get mobbed…and how is that a useful worship experience for Justin
I appreciate the comments but don’t think yall really hear what you saying. Christians, who are supposed to be worshiping Jesus would not be able to keep themselves from taking selfies and pictures with celebrities? 🤔 Wow..
@ Nope, they won’t. Also, many people come to church who aren’t Christians…and a lot more would show up if they heard Kim K just shows up and sits anywhere
Which is a problem with the body of Christ and why the church is powerless.
I agree with the original post. It's well possible that those who know the Lord and are in the church for the right reasons, could just go on with worship and be quite fine with a celebrity sitting nearby, not making any issue of it.
But the world doesn't work that way. Any number of non-believers, even those who may never have set foot in a church before, would likely come for the wrong reasons, disrupting worship if they heard a celebrity usually goes there and they know that the church won't do anything to separate them from the normal worshipers. They would view that as the perfect opportunity for access. Those who have no life experience with church culture and no Christian background honestly don't know any better.
This example is a different scenario, but similar in effect.
Harriet Tubman's British Methodist Episcopal Church sits down the street from us in my neighborhood (we are just over the border in Canada and our city was the end of the Underground Railroad). The church is a historic site, but still an active place of worship. Unfortunately they have problems with people busting in on Sunday morning and interrupting the worship service for tourism. For those who don't have any church culture background, they have no concept of appropriate behavior. The church has to keep a sign on the door stating "Anyone who is here for Sunday morning worship is welcome to join us, but if you have another purpose for your visit, please arrange with the office to visit at a different time. We would appreciate it if you don't disrupt the worship service."
I am completely against the celebrity box having anything special... As far as I am concerned they should get the same crackers and juice in plastic for communion. They should not have more comfortable chairs or special perks.
But for the sake of others not interrupting the worship service...for their sake and the rest of the congregation, they do need to be separated. It's an unfortunate reality, but the only other two choices are to just allow the regular disruption of worship by fans who have no concept of appropriate behavior and respect for worshipers, or exclude the celebrity from going to church at all.
Is the separation for privilege to pamper them?
or protect them from being distracted by fans and allowed to worship in peace?
You don’t see a problem in this case?
AAaaammmmmeeeeeemmmmmm!
lol. Amen! 🙏
🔥 conversation
Appreciate it.
This is bizarre and is happening everywhere, politicians, judges, renowned businessmen, lawyers, and medical doctors, this is just crazy. Whoever dares to talk about this is labeled as envious by the clapping seals. BTW, it is not a bad idea to serve some nachos if everything continues like this that will be available pretty soon in a building called a church near you. Like some of the comments posted here with the bible references showing that is not correct but who are we to call this up? As you mentioned, many people are not allowed to have exposure but for whatever reason the "celebrities" which means: "whoever is perceived with money and influence" are the ones recognized and asked to be the leaders, speakers, sources of reference, etc. The rest? A bunch of people sitting there or working in the kitchen, parking, etc for many years, but not worthy to preach, teach, etc.
Just by these verses alone today’s churches should be obsolete and done away with. I think this is imperative that believers in Christ NEED to spend some time alone (like several months or whatever time) with God so that they can hear from Him alone (the Holy Spirit) and I would guarantee to you that that believer will come away with a different perspective of what the body of Christ really is.
Matthew 23:9-12
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be [e]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be [f]exalted.
Acts 17:23-27
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one [j]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
James 1:26-27
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
James 2:1-9
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.
James 3: 1
3 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.
Ecclesiastes 12:12-14
Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.
Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
Matthew 6:6-7
6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.…
DEFINITELY, talk about sin vs unbelief. That’s gonna get you “in trouble” lol but man we gotta dig into Mark 1:15 and what “sin separating us from God” really means. That’ll be a good one.
Bro. That would be a good one and trouble. Lol
Jesus is not looking at them differently. However, the reason for the segregation is us the normal people. We would be looking at them differently, recording them, admiring, etc. The segregation is so that they can enjoy the service, worship, and praise God without us people's interference....
Why would we be in church doing that, lol. That’s not a good thing if Christians are distracted by celebrities when they themselves are supposed to be worshiping.
Very good, so many churches violate the book of James on this issue
Appreciate it bro. It’s interesting we can clearly go against a passage that explicitly explains this.
@ I know, and it’s so obvious to
The denominations have had thier lamb stands removed.
Thank you. Anyone calling themselves Pastor is a celebrity and in violation of Matthew 23 8-12.
The pastor has his name on his OWN parking spot. Lol
Know this all to well! lol
Never heard of a celebrity box but then l am not American 😳
😂 Nothing called a celebrity box really. But there are churches who have special areas for celebrities to be seated.
lol!! You also probably not want to go to any of these 'churches'! Which is another reason for small, house gatherings.
Lol