It is actually good for these types of engines to completely open up sometimes and blow out. If it doesn't happen naturally, we have to do it intentionally every so often. This video is probably too much though lol.
@@pootispiker2866 underpowered in the sense that NS doesn't give the train the right amount of tractive effort to climb the steepest grades and be on time
So, explain the difference between a SD45T-2 and a SD40-3. You will get used to people calling dash twos "forties" and on the Espee it was common to call the Ts by either 40T or 45T and everyone knew what was meant. But hey, you be you! @@ShawnCalay-hi6gy
@@sixriversrail what the hell you talking about??? Keep telling me your smoking up, while you keep telling me your smoking up....if you don't know the difference of a SD40T-2 from a SD45t-2 you shouldn't be a model railroader and you should be driving grandma's 1989 cavalier
Starting in the late '90's my railway began installing a traction control system - Positive Traction Control (PTC) - to their large fleet of SD40-2s (At that time over 500). This feature allowed the rated tonnage per engine to be raised by approximately 33% from 4950 EGT to 6600 without incurring any damage to the traction motors. This system would automatically adjust for wheel slip, excessive amperage, etc by reducing power to the traction motors. This meant that operating crews could simply place the engine(s) in throttle 8 and up the grade they would go with little fear of damaging the traction motors or slipping out. The one caveat was that all the locomotives in the consist had to be equipped with this feature to use it. A year or two little later they also began installing it on their large fleet of yard engines. If this engine is equipped with a similar system that would explain the lack of wheel slip and how it is just digging into the rail and pulling. You definitely go slower with more tonnage up the grade but at least you keep going. It became a clear case of 'Uphill slow, downhill fast, tonnage first and safety last!' lol
@@bobjohnson205 Then the system on that engine was definitely reducing amperage because the minimum continuous speed for an SD 40 is about 7 to 8 mph which is the max amperage the motors can take without damage. Note however, that any speed below that will not result in more drawbar pull, only less needed because of the slower speed. I have run a lot of rebuilt SD 40-2's and none of them had this feature. The greatest problem I experienced was the railroad not maintaining the sanders and reminding them that it was an FRA violation did not help, only garnered threats.
@@Hogger280 Reducing amperage so that the traction motors don't get damaged and wheel slip is controlled is exactly how the 'Positive Traction Control' (PTC) feature worked. It was/is a great feature and by the early 2000s hundreds of SD40-2s and yard engines on my railway were equipped with it. I guess you worked for the wrong railroad! lol It seems railways/railroads are great at intimidation and not so good at maintenance. Go figure! lol
@@rfree82 Yup, I've worked for more that one railroad that wouldn't give us enough power, expected us to abuse the power to get over the road and then blame the crew for damage to the engine! None of them ever maintained the sanders properly!
@@docksidemarine4273 My understanding is that you can hold max amperage against the unit load weight only so long before components burn up; as is true in applied electricity.
It probably wasn't reading very high. It's the difference between WS10 and whatever wheelslip control system they probably retrofitted the unit with. Listen to the exhaust... or lack thereof. Just because the engine is running at 900 RPM doesn't mean the alternator is delivering maximum current.
@@RedArrow73 Agreed! Most corporations are underpowered, compromised, fluffy bunnies 🐰 that steal credit from others but shove blame on others to cover their screw ups. 0 Tolerance Accountability, 0 Ethics, 0 Responsibility but 100,000 Blame and Scapegoating, just like rank and file politicians.
Refers to coupling speed in mph. General rule of thumb for all railcars, but autoracks are prone to damaged/shifted loads because the vehicles inside have the parking brake on but aren't tied down. Often associated with hump yards where they're sorting cars by gravity because all the retarders, computers, etc are designed around it. Someone once told me "it's really 'no more than 3' but that doesn't rhyme"
No slip. No sand. Wet rail wasn't the problem. You dont crank it up to notch 8 if your slipping, especially on wet rail, that just makes it worse. So either he had *alot* more then 30 cars, that's a lot steeper grade then video makes it look, or there were a car or three with stuck breaks or seized wheel bearings. With no place to get repair crews in he had to drag them to someplace with a siding to switch them out.
Definitely not notch 8. To pull that hard in 8 would fry the traction motors because the amperage would be so high. Also, wheel slippage at that speed would stall the consist.
@@michaelachhammer6383 : it's in run 8... just listen to it. Something that is not well understood by railfans is the way traction control systems work. Very few 40-series and Dash-2 locomotives have their original IDAC or WS10 wheelslip control systems. Most have had modern microprocessor-based systems retrofitted. These systems will control the output of the traction alternator to a fine degree to maximize traction without damaging the motors. Listen to the relative lack of exhaust noise. The engine isn't fully loaded by a long shot.
I miss Good Ole NORFOLK & WESTERN RAILWAY BECAUSE WE LIVED BESIDE THEIR TRACKS FOR OVER 12 YEARS AND DURING THAT TIME I ONLY RECALL ONE DE-RAILMENT AND THEN IT ONLY INVOLVED TWO COAL CARS . . . .
I asked my RFE about fuel conservation rules and explained that an SD70M uses 190 gallons per hour in notch 8. In notch 4, it uses 64 gallons per hour. So running 2 engines at half throttle is more fuel efficient than running 1 at full throttle. He said, "I don't make the rules. Just follow the rules."
@@keithsuggs7935 That's how it works on paper and theory but real world is a little different. I can say that from first hand experience on the WC/CN.
We have these over here in the United Kingdom they are known as class 66s over here they work for DB cargo GBRF and Freightliner they are pretty good and reliable units
Sad state of affairs that NS is in. Some schoolboy trainmaster probably set this up. "According to my computer, one yard switching engine should be more than enough power to pull 30 autoracks..." never mind that the wheels are rusted to the rails and have the friction of the brakes every time the wheels turn. On the railroad I hired out on, if we were pulling storage cars, they sent every available engine and usually two or three people with trucks so the ground work was minimal, not much walking.
Why not get a helper? Like a SD70ACU or a SD70ACE or maybe a ES44ACU or ES44CE and maybe a ES44CW it would give less pressure on the locomotive and strain the examples up above examples and ends at it would be great and helpful hope u never give up!
Little independent help knock some slip out set at 8 let it eat 😂 gotta do what you gotta do. They usually send 1 engine for 10-12k now 😭 pulling up next to CSX 1 on head 2 DP. They don’t mind working them, and us.
We need permission to turn the second engine. Usually the first must completely stall out. Even if we have to back down a mountain to turn on the second engine and get a running start.
@@FrankHeuvelman To simplify...The locomotive's movement is controlled by levers in the cab, both braking and acceleration. Notch 1 is slow. Notch 8 is fast.
Not many lines run SD40-2s long end first. As for the wear and tear the commenters are talking about, SD40-2s are relatively cheap. They are one of the most-produced locomotives out there, with just under four thousand being made.
Hearing that engine makes a mechanic's heart scream. Seeing the graffiti makes a mechanic's heart chuckle.
It is actually good for these types of engines to completely open up sometimes and blow out. If it doesn't happen naturally, we have to do it intentionally every so often. This video is probably too much though lol.
NS is notorious for underpowered trains... I see it often here on the Sunbury Line in Wilkes-Barre and Scranton Pennsylvania
Underpowered?! It's still moving isn't it?
@@pootispiker2866 underpowered in the sense that NS doesn't give the train the right amount of tractive effort to climb the steepest grades and be on time
@@LegoWormNoah101 woosh
Insert joke here about PSR
Oh ya im from mountain top ive seen it all the time
When the engineer has had enough, and decides to send a message to management about proper locomotive utilization....
AWESOME CATCH MAN! LOVE THAT SD40-2 SCREAMING! 2 THUMBS UP!
Nice message on the air tanks! @1:51
never noticed, haha
Look at the front of the first autorack!😂
Long hood forward! Who’s with me?
"As the good Lord intended." Long live the Southern!
Yes - why ?
No one who’s actually had to do it! Running LHF is horrible
Yeah it’s cool until you actually have to do it
Wow, quite over tonnaged! Neat to hear an SD40 in 8 for so long though!
That's not a SD40...that's a SD40-2.
@@ShawnCalay-hi6gySo? People can call sd40-2s or sd40-3s sd40s if they want. It’s not like you’re calling a gp7 an sd40
@@cts3696 a SD40 is a whole different locomotive then a a SD40-2...the spotting difference are so noticable it ain't funny! But hey you be you!
So, explain the difference between a SD45T-2 and a SD40-3. You will get used to people calling dash twos "forties" and on the Espee it was common to call the Ts by either 40T or 45T and everyone knew what was meant. But hey, you be you!
@@ShawnCalay-hi6gy
@@sixriversrail what the hell you talking about??? Keep telling me your smoking up, while you keep telling me your smoking up....if you don't know the difference of a SD40T-2 from a SD45t-2 you shouldn't be a model railroader and you should be driving grandma's 1989 cavalier
That locomotive is singing a tune. I think I can. I think I can I think I can.
That speed in T-8 will burn up brushes, brush wires and brush holders; and very well could damage armatures.
Starting in the late '90's my railway began installing a traction control system - Positive Traction Control (PTC) - to their large fleet of SD40-2s (At that time over 500). This feature allowed the rated tonnage per engine to be raised by approximately 33% from 4950 EGT to 6600 without incurring any damage to the traction motors. This system would automatically adjust for wheel slip, excessive amperage, etc by reducing power to the traction motors.
This meant that operating crews could simply place the engine(s) in throttle 8 and up the grade they would go with little fear of damaging the traction motors or slipping out. The one caveat was that all the locomotives in the consist had to be equipped with this feature to use it. A year or two little later they also began installing it on their large fleet of yard engines.
If this engine is equipped with a similar system that would explain the lack of wheel slip and how it is just digging into the rail and pulling. You definitely go slower with more tonnage up the grade but at least you keep going. It became a clear case of 'Uphill slow, downhill fast, tonnage first and safety last!' lol
@@bobjohnson205 Then the system on that engine was definitely reducing amperage because the minimum continuous speed for an SD 40 is about 7 to 8 mph which is the max amperage the motors can take without damage. Note however, that any speed below that will not result in more drawbar pull, only less needed because of the slower speed. I have run a lot of rebuilt SD 40-2's and none of them had this feature. The greatest problem I experienced was the railroad not maintaining the sanders and reminding them that it was an FRA violation did not help, only garnered threats.
@@Hogger280 Reducing amperage so that the traction motors don't get damaged and wheel slip is controlled is exactly how the 'Positive Traction Control' (PTC) feature worked. It was/is a great feature and by the early 2000s hundreds of SD40-2s and yard engines on my railway were equipped with it. I guess you worked for the wrong railroad! lol It seems railways/railroads are great at intimidation and not so good at maintenance. Go figure! lol
They should have given the crew more power
@@rfree82 Yup, I've worked for more that one railroad that wouldn't give us enough power, expected us to abuse the power to get over the road and then blame the crew for damage to the engine! None of them ever maintained the sanders properly!
Jeez, and I thought CSX was stingy with how much power they assigned to a train.
Iove the sound of an emd 645 V16 running in notch 8!!
Very Excellent view by the nice moving with slowly this train ❤️
👏👏👏👏
When you’re “going at a snails pace” literally.
The engineer probably said heck with it, I'm on the clock.
This is how we cope with the shenanigans our bosses pull. Counting our money😂
I’d know a 4-8-8-4 by UP that would be a great pusher! 😻😻😇😇🤪🤪
The Big Boy.
Ah yes, the UP msde locomotive. Because they're the ones that built it.
I would think keeping N-8 against that kind of resistance will trash the whole drive system.
Its fine
@@docksidemarine4273
My understanding is that you can hold max amperage against the unit load weight only so long before components burn up; as is true in applied electricity.
@@chuckg2016 yes the engineer has a max amperage gauge infront of him with a max rating for 15 minutes, 30 minutes and an hour.
@@docksidemarine4273
Thank you.
That was standard operating procedure on the Denver and Rio Grande. Tennessee Pass specifically.
Love to see the load gauge on this. Pure abuse of equipment.
I was thinking same thing.
It probably wasn't reading very high. It's the difference between WS10 and whatever wheelslip control system they probably retrofitted the unit with. Listen to the exhaust... or lack thereof. Just because the engine is running at 900 RPM doesn't mean the alternator is delivering maximum current.
I can hear the machinist doing the daily on that now.... "Hey Foreman_____ Can you come out and look at these wheels. We got some defects"
That has to be hell on the short time ratings on those DC motors.
Agreed!! So much for corporate pride and performance respect! Underpowered locomotives by underpowered railroad executives! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just like UP.
@@RedArrow73 Agreed! Most corporations are underpowered, compromised, fluffy bunnies 🐰 that steal credit from others but shove blame on others to cover their screw ups. 0 Tolerance Accountability, 0 Ethics, 0 Responsibility but 100,000 Blame and Scapegoating, just like rank and file politicians.
A single SD40 should have no problem pulling 30 empties. I guess the rain was a big issue.
I guess a slight grade as well? Seems the wheels would slip more at that power setting?
2:31 "No more than 4" what?
Refers to coupling speed in mph. General rule of thumb for all railcars, but autoracks are prone to damaged/shifted loads because the vehicles inside have the parking brake on but aren't tied down. Often associated with hump yards where they're sorting cars by gravity because all the retarders, computers, etc are designed around it. Someone once told me "it's really 'no more than 3' but that doesn't rhyme"
I thought those didn't like to go N8 so slowly. Does the power auto-reduce to minimize strain?
Notch 8, no belching diesel fumes, and 2 miles per hour
Not sure sometimes if the Railroads know what they're doing,under powering trains like this
NS trying to save costs by merging shorter trains into one long consist
No slip. No sand. Wet rail wasn't the problem. You dont crank it up to notch 8 if your slipping, especially on wet rail, that just makes it worse.
So either he had *alot* more then 30 cars, that's a lot steeper grade then video makes it look, or there were a car or three with stuck breaks or seized wheel bearings. With no place to get repair crews in he had to drag them to someplace with a siding to switch them out.
This is not Notch 8, it would be very loud !!! 🔊
Definitely not notch 8. To pull that hard in 8 would fry the traction motors because the amperage would be so high. Also, wheel slippage at that speed would stall the consist.
@@michaelachhammer6383 : it's in run 8... just listen to it. Something that is not well understood by railfans is the way traction control systems work. Very few 40-series and Dash-2 locomotives have their original IDAC or WS10 wheelslip control systems. Most have had modern microprocessor-based systems retrofitted. These systems will control the output of the traction alternator to a fine degree to maximize traction without damaging the motors. Listen to the relative lack of exhaust noise. The engine isn't fully loaded by a long shot.
Well that’s one way to keep those rails shiny.
She's got a radiator leak in the #2 fan... Sounds fantastic though!
one of the best dam units ever built sd40s 40 s 50s
You have got to be kidding, the SD-50 was the worst piece of junk to ever come out of EMD.
I miss Good Ole NORFOLK & WESTERN RAILWAY BECAUSE WE LIVED BESIDE THEIR TRACKS FOR OVER 12 YEARS AND DURING THAT TIME I ONLY RECALL ONE DE-RAILMENT AND THEN IT ONLY INVOLVED TWO COAL CARS . . . .
Wonder how much fuel they wasted having to work that SD so hard not to mention wear and tear.
It's a work horse not a race horse
About 2.7-ish gallons per minute at full throttle, give or take.
I asked my RFE about fuel conservation rules and explained that an SD70M uses 190 gallons per hour in notch 8. In notch 4, it uses 64 gallons per hour. So running 2 engines at half throttle is more fuel efficient than running 1 at full throttle. He said, "I don't make the rules. Just follow the rules."
Not only wasting fuel, with wheel slip it's physically wearing out other parts as well!
@@keithsuggs7935 That's how it works on paper and theory but real world is a little different. I can say that from first hand experience on the WC/CN.
Thoroughly enjoy the new logo NS has slapped on the front end of that box car
😂😂😂
The driver must have thought, "Fuqqin GREAT...Now I have to stare at THAT the whole time!"
We have these over here in the United Kingdom they are known as class 66s over here they work for DB cargo GBRF and Freightliner they are pretty good and reliable units
The Class 59s are basically UK spec SD40-2s. The Class 66s are basically SD59s with 12 cylinder 710 engines.
I would think another 6 axel SD40-2 to add to the rear of this train in tractive effort in helping push this train along.
@daniella,
A six axle SD-40?
Dang, it's just barely moving, do you think that they should have added another locomotive at least??
That’s some Conrail shit!! Awesome!!
Thanks!
Why on earth did they not have a banker available?
“Hey, y’all need a tow truck or rail tug?”
I think there’s a few hand brakes still set.
Bring big boy to assist .👍
Where da wheel slip at ?
Sad state of affairs that NS is in. Some schoolboy trainmaster probably set this up. "According to my computer, one yard switching engine should be more than enough power to pull 30 autoracks..." never mind that the wheels are rusted to the rails and have the friction of the brakes every time the wheels turn. On the railroad I hired out on, if we were pulling storage cars, they sent every available engine and usually two or three people with trucks so the ground work was minimal, not much walking.
And the driver gets to stair at a lovely cook and ballz while it struggles.
I didn't see any sanding. Given wet and ultra heavy ... why not?
Would 2 Locos use less diesel than one screaming at 2mph?
Now the question is why does this train have only 1 engine? And why does PSR still exist when we know it's bad?
Great video 🇺🇲🏴
I just talked to your dad yesterday I started my layout in SC
Why no sand to help with traction? Great video!
I think he is just re surfacing the rails 😂😂😂😂
Wheew she blowing them leaves ain’t she🔥
Awesome footage
Should have had more locomotives for this.
what kind of grade? Theres also a thing called sand
Time for NS to ditch the tricycle and bring in a super duty 4x4.
How many cars was it pulling
Why not get a helper? Like a SD70ACU or a SD70ACE or maybe a ES44ACU or ES44CE and maybe a ES44CW it would give less pressure on the locomotive and strain the examples up above examples and ends at it would be great and helpful hope u never give up!
Love it
NS would clearly use LESS fuel by ADDING 2 more locos.
Little independent help knock some slip out set at 8 let it eat 😂 gotta do what you gotta do. They usually send 1 engine for 10-12k now 😭 pulling up next to CSX 1 on head 2 DP. They don’t mind working them, and us.
Good thing wheel slip doesnt damage wiring, motors, tires or track, otherwise this would be stupid.
wonder if they released all the hand brakes... it's squealing!!
what is the purpose of spray painting "that" on the doors of the auto rack?
So they know to load the vehicles "head-in".
Now, if it was dangling DOWN....
Come off a notch or two and get about 8 lbs on the independent. The problem is more about adhesion then h.p.
Is this not necessarily hard on the engine.
Sand?
So nobody is going to mantion the "DEEZ NUTS" on the side of the train
Old N&W Ry unit on former Southern Ry rails.
Isn’t it more economical to have two engines instead of this one burning so much fuel?
We need permission to turn the second engine. Usually the first must completely stall out. Even if we have to back down a mountain to turn on the second engine and get a running start.
NS knows there is a grade here and the have plenty of engines and only put 1 on this train !! 🤔 Damn silly !!!
Anymore updates on the autoracks that you know of
Nope, i believe they're still in Spartanburg waiting for repairs before being used again
@@palmettostaterailfan7019 okay
There was absolutely no wheel slip!!!
Think it's underpowered now, wait til it starts down a 2% grade.
You could never do that at CSX, they don't believe in putting sand in the sandbox.
Oh, this was painful to watch, that poor baby.
That poor sd40 working it right into the grave. Just cut off 5 carts at that point and come back for the rest.
They don't care they just abused train to death this is how dumb people do that
We're is the SD40??? Just saw a SD40-2 did I miss something...
What day and time does this train run?
This was an as needed train, today it only ran to pick up the stored autoracks.
👍
Good way of tearing up that locomotive. Crew should have demanded another locomotive.
DEMANDED, oh yeah that would have worked.
@ralphfogle1662 Yep as the train master is laughing.
Should have split the set, then come back for the other half -
Absolutely, take 5 hrs of crawling?
Payed by the hour not the number of cars moved!
I want to help push!
What does notch 8 means?
It's the throttle position on the locomotive.
@@troyh3628
Like gears in a car?
FULL THROTTLE!!!
@@ffemtx4
And notch, ermm let's say 1?
Or 5 for that matter?
I suppose it's about torque?
@@FrankHeuvelman To simplify...The locomotive's movement is controlled by levers in the cab, both braking and acceleration. Notch 1 is slow. Notch 8 is fast.
C’mon Driver, grab another gear!
Common sense would cut the train in half and make two trips
NS need Cog Railways
How to burn up traction motors 101...
As a railroader, I must be really deaf cause that doesn’t sound like 8th notch to me….
I think 'DEEZ NUTZ' says it all. Just sayin.
Nice 👍
Not many lines run SD40-2s long end first. As for the wear and tear the commenters are talking about, SD40-2s are relatively cheap. They are one of the most-produced locomotives out there, with just under four thousand being made.
HA GOT EM’
NS are moving the autoracks
Yep, they moved them up to Spartanburg yesterday
Man i was going there this weekend. Is 891175 and 891177 gone too
@@csxtrainfan319 they're all gone
DARN. What train is going to be stored there next
@@csxtrainfan319 they're in Spartanburg yard right now, they may either be scrapped, or sent down to Augusta GA to get repaired
_S C R E A M_
S Ç Ř Ĕ Å M
Man , NS couldn’t spare another locomotive?? Cheap!
I like how you all think you're too mature to mention the huge c0c graffiti infront right infront of the loco 😐
Hilarious 😂
shouldnt be in notch 8 at that speed all you will do is wheel slip
This video is simultaneously boring and exciting all at once.
Duurrr! Change down a gear and cut revvs almost to stall. All your dooing now is polishing the rail
Hey, videographer - have you ever heard of a $25 tripod, FFS?
what the hell is this, shit why dont they get another engine for help