Great video Winters! Pedals will be on the Christmas list. A note to chat here, if you want to bind multiple keys to the same action, you can edit your config file under USER>Client>0>Controls>Mappings, and add an input option under the rebind (rebind is the current bind). It should look something like this.
This is a really weird setup... BUT for all you haters. I'm an IRL private pilot (with some aerobatic hours) and have flown both yoke and stick, raced RC quadcopters, and play Star Citizen. They all have different controls and I've never confused them. Map controls to what's optimal for the system. @Johnathan Winters' reasoning is sound, and muscle memory will kick in after a few hours.
I have zero flight time as anything other than a passenger IRL, but PLENTY experience doing other skilled labor (and probably even more time participating in space/flight sims/games)- and I wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of what you've said here. Use the correct tool for the job, not for one's own "preference". Learn the job, practice the job, become GOOD at the job with the correct tools for it, as its own individual thing. A videogame "starfighter" is simply not a real world plane. Whomsoever reads this comment can unpack that sentence however they wish.
@@rhadiem I've played with a looooot of pvpers over the years, everytime they make these changes, they immediately see improvements. I've seen the same for myself, and I came from flight sims and dcs.
The fun thing - I came myself for the same conclusions just after a month of casual pvp. Left stick for strafes, pedals for back forward, multibutton mouse for aiming and misc keys (Roccat Tyon my many years favorite, pity they stopped manufacturing but there are still some on Amazon). What I didn't think is about rudders for roll and toe brakes for back forward - that is brilliant. Now I wonder if it is possible effectively use right stick's top mini stick for manual gimbals ))
@Johnathan Winters Your choice of axes makes me twitch -- it seems wrong after so many years working as a pilot IRL and I don't feel like three axes per stick is overloading. But, your left stick/right mouse setup has me really excited to try! I also really like your key bindings so I screenshot and stole them as well. Thank you!
IRL atmosphere flying is not same as space flying as u know. most ppl who used to atmosphere flying irl cant easily change what they used to do. I still agrees with u. his strafe bindings kinda deferent from the majority. it makes sense for pvp tho, u dont want to strain ur hands forward since we moving forward almost all the time.
Thanks for that hint with the right stick twist. It felt overloaded but it seems to be correct to bind it there. I´d changed it after your vid to left stick - and - oh boi that feels so much better. See u in the verse o7
Love the video especially the combat ones, as I am new to the game. I have an old X52 so I am unable to easily control forward and back, and I have been using the throttle control as forward thrust only plus the hat in front for up/down/left/right strafe. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to better utilise the throttle control?
I think I'm weird because my right stick is pitch and roll but then twist is yaw I can't do it any other way I've tried but that's the most smooth for me! For my left stick it is just forward backwards straight and left and right straight it unfortunately does not have a Twist or I would use that for up and down stray instead that is mapped to two of the buttons I have. I kind of hate my setup but it is what it is until I have enough money to afford my verbal setup and then I'm going full on Dual stick pedals and possibly even a throttle for non fighting applications.
New vewer question: Any tips for a gamepad player? I'm experimenting with the left stick being strafe (like you do WASD), with RB/LB being rolls, AB being boost and brake Mario Kart style, and its... more viable than I expected. Plenty of buttons left over after binding your list. I am specifically curious about your general thoughts and impressions on gamepad meta viability; there are tons of other videos for setup and keybindings in technical detail. I personally aim to be in the top 60-70%, just so statistically, I can salvage pirates more often than they salvage me. My personal ability aside, would you agree that someone who understands the principles in your videos and practices on a gamepad > someone who doesn't understand with a more meta setup?
This was helpful after watching your movement video I can somewhat apply your concepts there to hands on control options. Sounds like I need to ditch the Hotas for a dual stick setup and perhapsnpucj up pedals. The dedicated throttle makes strafingnin combat cumbersome.
I went with a stick + mouse, not really planning anything more for now, and I can't really decide what settings to go for. There are so many different options here as to where to put the strafes or roll. And then there is the issue of minimizing the time and effort to recalibrate your muscle memory in case you go dual in the future. Can you recommend a setup given I have a VKB with the analog thumb stick? There is none in the video actually.
I don’t understand the difference between forward thrust (strafe) and forward throttle.. I have an hotas and the only thing I can do is throttle forward on z axis (from 0 to 100) and push the backward button to go backwards at the same speed. I can’t find other controls for forward e backward thruster, what am I missing?
Just ordered pedals, I've currently got the mouse, left stick, and now to be pedals setup. I've never used pedals before, but you recommend for that setup throttle forward and back on the pedals as well as roll left and right. I'm curious to know which to bind to what? Roll to the toe breaks and forward and back to the slide actions? Or vise versa?
I'm playing with my setup having both hosas and rudder pedals - you are saying to put the roll on toe brake, while you are having it on left hand twist - is that a matter of habbit or you feel roll is more controlled on having it on twist? I'm asking because roll on toe brake feels sluggish coparing to twist IMO.
As long as you can make independent maneuvers without one affecting the other exe: if I twist my stick to go forward I should not be strafing up or down. Then you're fine.
I started a few months ago and on KBM. wanted to advance to the next step and wondering whether to have a left or right stick. I have a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro but it is right handed.
If you're going for both you can use your 3d pro on your left even if its uncomtorable and get a good stick. But just follow the vid, it covers all that.
I do strafes only on the left hand, forward and back are separate. I have a controls video that breaks down important factors when it comes to keybindings.
@@JohnathanWinters Yeah sorry I wasn't clear with my question. I mean for your up/down strafe on your left hand, which way round do you have it bound? When you push the stick forward, does that strafe you up, or down?
Thanks! Finding your videos very useful. Just a question about yaw, roll & up/down thrust recommendations for dual sticks; why do you (and other people) recommend yaw on right stick? and roll on twist of left? I'm used to from traditional flight sims to have roll on right stick and yaw on pedals. Is yaw on right stick and roll on twist of left stick somehow viewed more precise on space sims?
Imo it's considered more precise because the hands are more dexterous than the feet. One thing to consider is that in space, ships aren't affected by aerodynamic forces. Yaw and pitch are free to move however they like. Being able to control both axis 1 to 1 with your hands yields the highest levels of accuracy. In flight games, yaw doesn't have the most authority due to the designs of aircraft as well as it doesn't require much precision. Majoirty of flight control precision is rolling and pitching. Granted, yaw is used for certain maneuvers and aiming, it tends to be a held value versus twitch-precision. This is coming from a pretty decent Camel pilot in IL2 whereas the rudder made or broke a Camel pilot.
Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll give it a try. Won't be easy with thousands of hours of flight sim time, but I can see that it might make sense for space sims. Perhaps I'll keep all the thrusters on left stick i.e. keep up and down on left twist and just swap yaw from pedals to right x axis and put roll to pedals.
What would you recommend for a forced south paw with a born handicap on the right ( no fingers just a half thumb and palm ) ??? Right now im rockin' a naga left hand with arrow keys and some numpad funtions with a mimic dual stick setup with roll and up and down on mouse keys, let me know 😁
I would keep the mouse as pitch and yaw. The rest, w.e. you can figure out. I think pedals would be the best benefit for ya. Something with toe brakes so you can roll, move forward and back on pedals.
Right Twist works just fine on my Gunfighter. Twist uses wrist muscles while the main axes use upper arm muscles. Different nerves and it is very comfortable even when combining actions. Using side buttons on a mouse though often spoil your aim if you are claw grip.
Sorry. Didn’t quite understand the keyboard keybind for W and S. if we change it to Strafe up and down, what keys do we use for forward and back? 🤔 thanks!
Yaw is more important than roll for aiming though, but I assume you have top tier pedals and have decades of foot aiming under your belt. It is suboptimal but you do you.
@@JohnathanWinters it is totally a preference, i for one use roll on right stick rotation and do fine, aim is not just aim at high tier pvp is ship movement 70~ and aim 30~ % but it depends everything is just a preferences not a recommendations imo
@@Vecshan You can get away with roll on right hand twist. But pitch and Yaw is master race, there is no debate there. Control is objectively better that way. If I where to give it numbers I would say, twist on left increase ur aim by about 10% and pitch and yaw vs roll on x gives you better aim by about 80%
@@JohnathanWinters i am saying that 70% of the aim is done with movements. not just aim. keybinds do not matter is just what you prefer and how wanna use what you have. in the higher ends of pvp everyone has aim, is about the position and movements to add perfection to it.
Tbh I find the game easier to play full mouse n keyboard and just customize the keys the way you like no extra money at all and once customized to comfort it's very competitive and I don't feel disadvantaged at all. mostly due to the fact that some key bindings can overlap based on mode and situation such as on foot, Eva, in flight, missile mode, etc
They really have to upgrade this game. Form me to add all that gluter to my Desk. I use it way more then just for games or this game for that matter. But if they improve on it. Then I can see it happening.
I disagree, pedals are not a need for either but nice to have regardless of ship. A Cessna and a Boeing 747 both benefit from pedals but could both be flown fine with a twist axis.
stop buying gear for demo of the game, while those who need it for actual sims cant find it in stock because of cultists think it will make them better in non existent physics that keeps getting changed
![Why is Salvaging Stuff so Relaxing and Fun? [Star Citizen]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5v3MN1LH_qU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why is Salvaging Stuff so Relaxing and Fun? [Star Citizen]](/img/tr.png)
Great video Winters! Pedals will be on the Christmas list. A note to chat here, if you want to bind multiple keys to the same action, you can edit your config file under USER>Client>0>Controls>Mappings, and add an input option under the rebind (rebind is the current bind). It should look something like this.
You madman you
I immediately went to dual sticks, but quickly went to left stick, mouse, and pedals, and it's my favorite setup by far
This is a really weird setup... BUT for all you haters. I'm an IRL private pilot (with some aerobatic hours) and have flown both yoke and stick, raced RC quadcopters, and play Star Citizen. They all have different controls and I've never confused them. Map controls to what's optimal for the system. @Johnathan Winters' reasoning is sound, and muscle memory will kick in after a few hours.
I have zero flight time as anything other than a passenger IRL, but PLENTY experience doing other skilled labor (and probably even more time participating in space/flight sims/games)- and I wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of what you've said here. Use the correct tool for the job, not for one's own "preference". Learn the job, practice the job, become GOOD at the job with the correct tools for it, as its own individual thing.
A videogame "starfighter" is simply not a real world plane. Whomsoever reads this comment can unpack that sentence however they wish.
Absolute brother . It’s the drill practice and hours you put in
absolutely one of the most concise and useful videos made on controls for SC !
Also a lot of weird suggestions I would never make. Whatever works I suppose.
@@rhadiem I've played with a looooot of pvpers over the years, everytime they make these changes, they immediately see improvements. I've seen the same for myself, and I came from flight sims and dcs.
The fun thing - I came myself for the same conclusions just after a month of casual pvp. Left stick for strafes, pedals for back forward, multibutton mouse for aiming and misc keys (Roccat Tyon my many years favorite, pity they stopped manufacturing but there are still some on Amazon). What I didn't think is about rudders for roll and toe brakes for back forward - that is brilliant.
Now I wonder if it is possible effectively use right stick's top mini stick for manual gimbals ))
@Johnathan Winters Your choice of axes makes me twitch -- it seems wrong after so many years working as a pilot IRL and I don't feel like three axes per stick is overloading. But, your left stick/right mouse setup has me really excited to try! I also really like your key bindings so I screenshot and stole them as well. Thank you!
IRL atmosphere flying is not same as space flying as u know. most ppl who used to atmosphere flying irl cant easily change what they used to do.
I still agrees with u. his strafe bindings kinda deferent from the majority. it makes sense for pvp tho, u dont want to strain ur hands forward since we moving forward almost all the time.
Yep X axis is Roll and Z axis is Yaw. I have no problem aiming. Personal preference.
Great info, thanks. I have a HOTAS with pedals so am going to use left stick + mouse + pedals.
Saw your other post, seem you figured it out though =]
Thanks for that hint with the right stick twist. It felt overloaded but it seems to be correct to bind it there. I´d changed it after your vid to left stick - and - oh boi that feels so much better. See u in the verse o7
Top tier video as usual! Great stuff :)
Anyone else have yaw on right twist? Just feels right and the digital movement matches the physical.
Love the video especially the combat ones, as I am new to the game. I have an old X52 so I am unable to easily control forward and back, and I have been using the throttle control as forward thrust only plus the hat in front for up/down/left/right strafe. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to better utilise the throttle control?
I think I'm weird because my right stick is pitch and roll but then twist is yaw I can't do it any other way I've tried but that's the most smooth for me! For my left stick it is just forward backwards straight and left and right straight it unfortunately does not have a Twist or I would use that for up and down stray instead that is mapped to two of the buttons I have. I kind of hate my setup but it is what it is until I have enough money to afford my verbal setup and then I'm going full on Dual stick pedals and possibly even a throttle for non fighting applications.
It's not normal for anyone off the bat, you gotta put in the time with it.
New vewer question: Any tips for a gamepad player? I'm experimenting with the left stick being strafe (like you do WASD), with RB/LB being rolls, AB being boost and brake Mario Kart style, and its... more viable than I expected. Plenty of buttons left over after binding your list.
I am specifically curious about your general thoughts and impressions on gamepad meta viability; there are tons of other videos for setup and keybindings in technical detail.
I personally aim to be in the top 60-70%, just so statistically, I can salvage pirates more often than they salvage me.
My personal ability aside, would you agree that someone who understands the principles in your videos and practices on a gamepad > someone who doesn't understand with a more meta setup?
Those bindings sound good, only thing I would add is get some cheap pedals to help misread some of ur movmeent.
This was helpful after watching your movement video I can somewhat apply your concepts there to hands on control options. Sounds like I need to ditch the Hotas for a dual stick setup and perhapsnpucj up pedals. The dedicated throttle makes strafingnin combat cumbersome.
I went with a stick + mouse, not really planning anything more for now, and I can't really decide what settings to go for. There are so many different options here as to where to put the strafes or roll. And then there is the issue of minimizing the time and effort to recalibrate your muscle memory in case you go dual in the future. Can you recommend a setup given I have a VKB with the analog thumb stick? There is none in the video actually.
I don’t understand the difference between forward thrust (strafe) and forward throttle.. I have an hotas and the only thing I can do is throttle forward on z axis (from 0 to 100) and push the backward button to go backwards at the same speed. I can’t find other controls for forward e backward thruster, what am I missing?
you have the bind the one that says forward/back or something along those lines. You cannot bind the individual one since you only have 1 axis.
Have you got a link to that image of your Virpil grip keybinds?
Just ordered pedals, I've currently got the mouse, left stick, and now to be pedals setup. I've never used pedals before, but you recommend for that setup throttle forward and back on the pedals as well as roll left and right. I'm curious to know which to bind to what? Roll to the toe breaks and forward and back to the slide actions? Or vise versa?
Amazing Content! Now i am going to reorganize my bindings. A bit unsure where to map forward and back thrust on my hosas
I'm playing with my setup having both hosas and rudder pedals - you are saying to put the roll on toe brake, while you are having it on left hand twist - is that a matter of habbit or you feel roll is more controlled on having it on twist? I'm asking because roll on toe brake feels sluggish coparing to twist IMO.
As long as you can make independent maneuvers without one affecting the other exe: if I twist my stick to go forward I should not be strafing up or down. Then you're fine.
I started a few months ago and on KBM. wanted to advance to the next step and wondering whether to have a left or right stick. I have a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro but it is right handed.
If you're going for both you can use your 3d pro on your left even if its uncomtorable and get a good stick. But just follow the vid, it covers all that.
Amazing video. Really good info here.
Question. I have pedals with 3 axis of movement. Should I put roll and forward/back movement on them?
Check, my pedals video.
Do you also have full foot pedal attachment for those virpils? And which one do you prefer?
Thankyou for the guide!
Just out of curiosity, which way round do you have your left hand Y axis? Do you prefer left hand forward to strafe up, or strafe down?
I do strafes only on the left hand, forward and back are separate. I have a controls video that breaks down important factors when it comes to keybindings.
@@JohnathanWinters Yeah sorry I wasn't clear with my question. I mean for your up/down strafe on your left hand, which way round do you have it bound? When you push the stick forward, does that strafe you up, or down?
@@Charlie_Echo Use what ever feels comfortable to you, but I use forward is up.
@@JohnathanWinters Cool, thanks! By instinct I feel that'll be better for me too, but I'll try both.
Is your Pitch inverted and are you planning to change your overall settings/controls with Master Mode?
Yes and no change to my settings.
Do you have another video of control adjustments ? I am talking about aiming assist, curves on stick fine tuning stuff?
I do, check my channel for Aim Assist.
@@JohnathanWinters Thank you
Thanks! Finding your videos very useful.
Just a question about yaw, roll & up/down thrust recommendations for dual sticks;
why do you (and other people) recommend yaw on right stick? and roll on twist of left?
I'm used to from traditional flight sims to have roll on right stick and yaw on pedals.
Is yaw on right stick and roll on twist of left stick somehow viewed more precise on space sims?
Imo it's considered more precise because the hands are more dexterous than the feet.
One thing to consider is that in space, ships aren't affected by aerodynamic forces. Yaw and pitch are free to move however they like. Being able to control both axis 1 to 1 with your hands yields the highest levels of accuracy.
In flight games, yaw doesn't have the most authority due to the designs of aircraft as well as it doesn't require much precision. Majoirty of flight control precision is rolling and pitching. Granted, yaw is used for certain maneuvers and aiming, it tends to be a held value versus twitch-precision. This is coming from a pretty decent Camel pilot in IL2 whereas the rudder made or broke a Camel pilot.
What Magics said.
Thanks for the replies guys.
I think I'll give it a try. Won't be easy with thousands of hours of flight sim time, but I can see that it might make sense for space sims.
Perhaps I'll keep all the thrusters on left stick i.e. keep up and down on left twist and just swap yaw from pedals to right x axis and put roll to pedals.
@@redshoes9127 np man, 15 minutes a day and you'll be fine in a week or less.
What would you recommend for a forced south paw with a born handicap on the right ( no fingers just a half thumb and palm ) ??? Right now im rockin' a naga left hand with arrow keys and some numpad funtions with a mimic dual stick setup with roll and up and down on mouse keys, let me know 😁
I would keep the mouse as pitch and yaw. The rest, w.e. you can figure out. I think pedals would be the best benefit for ya. Something with toe brakes so you can roll, move forward and back on pedals.
Right Twist works just fine on my Gunfighter. Twist uses wrist muscles while the main axes use upper arm muscles. Different nerves and it is very comfortable even when combining actions. Using side buttons on a mouse though often spoil your aim if you are claw grip.
It's not about comfort.
@@JohnathanWinters That's your rebuttal? 🤔
@@rhadiem I miss read your comment, just find something comfortable that allows you to strafe without moving forward or back accidentally
Nice one Winters!
Do you have a video on how to adjust the sensitivity curves on the right stick?
It's in my aim assist video, the tracing portion.
Sorry. Didn’t quite understand the keyboard keybind for W and S. if we change it to Strafe up and down, what keys do we use for forward and back? 🤔 thanks!
buttons on side of mouse
I have Flight pedals with toe breaks. is it worth trying to adapt to roll on the toe breaks instead of twist? I have full HOSAS with the pedals.
That's subjective, give it a try.
What are these pedals named? @1:27
Those are Virpil.
Thank you for your incredible videos!
Can you share your hosas profile as a file plz?
The controls hurt my brain, put them on but with so much memory flying rotary in arma my head just melts
You'll get it, it's a must, trust. I came from flight sims, it just doesn't work in SC.
Great video but you can never convince me not to have roll and pitch on the same stick
Yaw is more important than roll for aiming though, but I assume you have top tier pedals and have decades of foot aiming under your belt. It is suboptimal but you do you.
You're hurting yourself if you are serious about combat, your aim will always suck.
@@JohnathanWinters it is totally a preference, i for one use roll on right stick rotation and do fine, aim is not just aim at high tier pvp is ship movement 70~ and aim 30~ % but it depends everything is just a preferences not a recommendations imo
@@Vecshan You can get away with roll on right hand twist. But pitch and Yaw is master race, there is no debate there. Control is objectively better that way.
If I where to give it numbers I would say, twist on left increase ur aim by about 10% and pitch and yaw vs roll on x gives you better aim by about 80%
@@JohnathanWinters i am saying that 70% of the aim is done with movements. not just aim. keybinds do not matter is just what you prefer and how wanna use what you have.
in the higher ends of pvp everyone has aim, is about the position and movements to add perfection to it.
Inverted Y axis master race 😁
Shift X axis on a separate profile for flying backwards like a pimp.
Great video! No wonder why your dogfighting tutorials are so nasty lol You have got quite the setup!
Good stuff
Tbh I find the game easier to play full mouse n keyboard and just customize the keys the way you like no extra money at all and once customized to comfort it's very competitive and I don't feel disadvantaged at all. mostly due to the fact that some key bindings can overlap based on mode and situation such as on foot, Eva, in flight, missile mode, etc
They really have to upgrade this game. Form me to add all that gluter to my Desk. I use it way more then just for games or this game for that matter. But if they improve on it. Then I can see it happening.
Honestly, you don't need any of it. Ako is a god tier PVP pilot, top 5 IMO and he's keyboard and mouse.
@@JohnathanWinters Good to know! Thanks!
And then us peons limited for space on a gaming laptop and a mouse with a board as a desk.
If your planning on flying capital ships then pedals makes no sense, just need dual sticks and a control panel
I disagree, pedals are not a need for either but nice to have regardless of ship. A Cessna and a Boeing 747 both benefit from pedals but could both be flown fine with a twist axis.
go wtih omni directional so immersive
Binding roll to your feet is really going to screw you up if you ever try to fly a real aircraft.
You'll get use to it.
Yes, more hacks, keep em comin o7
o7
Your controls are weird and i don't like them
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elder berries. :)
stop buying gear for demo of the game, while those who need it for actual sims cant find it in stock because of cultists think it will make them better in non existent physics that keeps getting changed
Maybe you should stop buying stuff for a game that not that many play :)) jk everyone does what they want man