Is CP3 vs. Deron Williams a Debate?: 2005 NBA Redraft | Bill Simmons's Book of Basketball 2.0
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to redraft the 2005 NBA draft. It includes Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and a number of late picks who find their way into the lottery for the redraft.
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No one:
Rusillo: so what are we doing?
bill: jazz won 5 playoff series in 2 years ...me: so they made a nba finals?...thats impossible otherwise to win 5 in 2 years...lol...he meant 3 years....smdh...
@@razkable yea when he said it was confused lol
I'll never be able to forgive the Hawks for taking Marvin over CP3/D-Will.. I think everyone except the Hawks front office instantly knew what a terrible pick that was.. ugh
josh smith joe johnson cp3 in the east would of been a problem.....thats a real big three circa 2009
That was a Washington Wizard like pick...just unhhh
When the Hawks had wings and needed a PG! Uggghhhhhhh
The media loved Starvin Marvin. Even 2k did but I didn't
And then they traded Luka....man the Hawks hate having superstar primary ball handlers apparently
These guys almost never mention injuries. They just say a guy "fell off", or he didn't "adjust his game".
then you didn’t watch the danny granger part
@@joshsmith6923 Almost..... Almost.
Didn't D Will fall off after his ankles never recovered?
That’s just inferred
Yea because we all know Chris Paul is an iron man who never dealt with injuries.
Bill got that clean lineup for the pod
He called Jalen's barber :)
🤣😂
Ben lining him up
#facts
Andew Bogut is sneaky great at some things. He understands angles and where other players are on the court better than 90 % of the leauge. He's kinda Marc Gasol-ish in that way. Not fast,yet he's always in the right position. Has 7 points,not a great post up player,can't shoot yet while he was in the game the team offense was smooth. He's more on a slow side yet he's always in a right defending position. His stats don't pop up,he doesn't have highlights but he simply plays some parts of baketball to perfection. Those things that don't show up in a box-score yet he's always a + on the court.
Perfect description
Couldn’t score for shit
Injuries really did him damage..
Point Guard Vision guaranteed he is a better passer than your ‘point guard vision’
Bogut had essentially a career ending injury when he landed on his elbow and broke his forearm as a Buck. Prior to that the guy was an elite rim protector with great soft touch around the basket and high bball IQ. He was on his way towards becoming a 20/10/5 type player who could also defend the paint until that gruesome injury completely robbed him of his shooting touch. It's actually quite amazing that he still managed to stay productive after that.
7:30 "4/10 class rating," "mistakes," and "so many bad GM'S."
Irony to this, Isiah Thomas went into this draft night with picks 8 & 30, and came away with Channing Frye, David Lee, & Nate Robinson. And all it cost him was 50 year old Kurt Thomas and Dijon Thompson.
Isiah Thomas, good at drafting, bad at everything else.
@@niklauszbinden8002 Nah. Zeke was a hell of a point guard. Top 3 all time.
@@niklauszbinden8002 except playing basketball I guess
Sorry I’m a year late to the party. But 1) “50 year old Kurt Thomas” is hilarious. And 2) that guy saying zeke sucked at everything besides drafting is hilarious too. Perhaps he forgot that Isiah is one of the top 3-4 point guards in the history of basketball.
@@niklauszbinden8002 you should have said “bad at coaching.” Saying he’s bad at everything else makes it appear as though you don’t follow basketball.
Do the 2006 draft. I wanna see how high Simmons drafts Rondo
Probably 2 or 3.
I’ll probably have him at 3 behind Aldridge and Lowry. Had B Roy’s career not been cut short due to injury he would’ve been number one.
@@stevesteve0521 I'd take Millsap over Rondo
@@timothyd1496 Agreed, Rondo goes 4. Should really be 5 after Reddick, or 6 if you want to give Roy credit for possibly not having his career cut so short.
Timothy D absolutely not
David Lee was so fun on that 2016-17 Spurs team filling Duncan’s roster spot. Made it to WCF. Great passer, IQ, teammate.
he played 16 minutes a night in the playoffs 1/4 of it in garbage time
Then Zaza fkd it all up
@@Joshstix95 nah Kawhi and Uncle Dennis fucked it all up.. Zaza just an ez scapegoat
Warriors Lee > Spurs Lee
@@dawg7846yeah, no shit Sherlock
Leading up to the 2010 - 11 All Star game Andrew Bogut and Kevin Love were both borderline for their 1st selection. During the season Andrew had a slight advantage however this was also the season where he sustained the shoulder injury. Kevin made the team as a replacement.
Watch some early Bogut and you'll see the potential that was limited.
Amir Johnson has had a really nice NBA career and forsure goes before Blatche lol
You mean we’re not comparing Amir to Dray’s career in the Philippines? No question Amir>Dray.
I don't get why Russillo acting like Paul and Williams was such a nonsensical argument. To me it's revisionist history to act like they weren't almost interchangeable back then
He sounds like a hater
they underrating d will after 2011..he was fine until the cavs ruined him in the finals...
Rusillo is malding man. He's a prime example.
He was already gone way before being in the Cavs. Being in a failed super team in Brooklyn ruined him.
DWill was a monster
I remember that Paul v Williams argument back then, and I was on the side of Deron Williams. And no, I don't give two poops about the Utah Jazz. If I remember correctly, it was mostly due to Deron Williams' bigger size that won me over. Despite the fact that Paul was definitely the better defender. But his bigger stature made me think Williams would be more versatile overall. Otherwise, their first 5 years were totally comparable. It was definitely not a stupid debate at the time, not sure what Russillo is on about at the beginning acting like Williams was just average or something... Williams was totally killing it for a while.
It’s like debating Lillard vs Kyrie, you’re not insane for saying Kyrie, but people who really watch basketball say Dame
D williams was a baller in utah and in new jersey also. His shooting just fell off for some reason. Also that guy just sounds ignorant and a hater
D Will definitely had the same amount of talent as Chris Paul, he was even a flashier passer. Those Utah teams he was on with Okur, Boozer and Ak47 were deadly, I think he stopped caring and got fat, but in his prime he was a top pg in the league no doubt
It wasn't reasonable, the numbers were not comparable. Jesus look at the advanced stats, CP3 completely dominated him in most categories. Plus 2008 CP3 was an MVP year, Deron never got to that level. CP3 still being all star tier years later kinda proves his game was at a higher level. Deron had a better Utah squad
@@insomatic420 nah it isn't he stopped caring he just wasn't as good where his game would hold up at old age. CP3 even as a slowed down guy can still play at a high level even though he's short
I was always on the Paul side but DWill really was nice. It was completely debatable but yes, the team success kinda swayed people too.
lol team success
Both of them had teams that never had enough talent bc they were never bad enough to get draft picks and were in terrible free agent cities
@@jhank0cean Utah had Dwill, Ak-47, Boozer, Jefferson and made a Conference Finals and were a perennial 50 win team.
@@jhank0cean do you know how Dwill had on his team?
Stfu
CP had a much worse roster. But you can look at his advanced stats and see what a monster he has been for 17 years. WS/48 is a good metric for impact. CP was in the .200s from his 3rd year until his 13th year. Two years out of the .200s (2nd HOU and OKC), then he's back for the last two years with PHO. (For comparison LeBron is about teh same # of years, though his peaks - last two year s of CLE and first three years in MIA - are higher). That's an astonishing run of top tier efficiency. For other positions a top WS/48 is not essential to be a great, but it is for PGs. It might be the single best metric for efficiency, and your PG needs to be efficient.
But here's the thing: in his third year CP3 was top WS/48 in the league, at .284.
Bill keeps bringing up the Celtics unwarranted
Makes sense though. If he watched the Celtics with affection growing up and as an adult, it may just be a habit at this point for him to reference them.
I find any way possible to mention my 04 Pistons lol. That's in casual conversation 😆
Was Dennis Johnson everrated?
At this point why don’t you expect it and how does it bother you
I'm from Slovenia and Bill with Celtics is the same like me bro is with Luka Dončić. We could be talking about the Egyptian Pyramids but somehow he's gonna involve Luka into that conversation lol
As an nba fanatic, this league history is so nostalgic.
I like these a lot more when I look up the list and redraft it myself before I watch it, to see if I can predict their picks. Then I can get really ticked off at Russillo for taking Bogut too high and screwing up my bracket.
naw the Deron Williams vs CP3 was closer than what they are saying.. they are making it like it was
Jermaine O'Neal vs Tim Duncan/KG
it was more like Tmac vs Kobe
But CP3 vs. D-Will wasn't ridiculous
Best explanation of it ive seen so far.
Deron Williams was cold af.. Got a brandon roy type career in my mind.. Id take CP3 over D Will any day of the week tho
nah Roy had a legit excuse for declining. CP3 had tons of injuries in his career too yet when his athleticism waned he still produces at an all star tier
@@AQGOAT24 touche
Dudes get hurt it dont be big injuries that u hear about guard lose a step and its over
Luka Doncic is Deron Williams
@@ThatCoCoa in what way?
I’m thankful for this ep as I was an Illinois fan and I was heavily in the Deron Williams camp lol I won’t apologize and I’ll do it all over again. Dee Brown, the 1 Man Fastbreak, was the heart of that Illinois team (Fighting Illini back then) but we all knew Deron Williams was the best player. Man I miss those days sometimes lol
As a UNC fan and at the natty game….those guards were insane but y’all also had that big man who wrote on his shoes. Dude lost the game for y’all as he couldn’t stop Sean May for his life.
Gosh those guards though. Such a fun team to watch
Marvin Williams has played the most games of this draft class surprisingly
Deron Williams was the best player on the Jazz team for most of those 5 years. Bill just hates anyone who plays for the Jazz. Their stats are very similar during their first 5 seasons, then DWill had the fallout with Sloan. There was a legit arguement at the time between the two. CP3 has the edge defensively, but offensively DWill was just as good of a point guard as CP3 during those Utah years.
My friends and I used to have HEATED arguments over CP3 vs D Will. I was on the CP3 side but when D Will's three point shot was falling he looked unstoppable.
@@grassajasp Totally. And I'm not saying DWill was better any of those seasons, but to say it wasn't close is just ridiculous, even in hindsight.
You snubbed Amir Johnson. Advanced stats love him and so does Toronto
Hes the prototypical roll the the rim big man who can board really well.
As a Nets fan it's amazing and disturbing how quickly Deron fell off
Hell Yeah!!! He was the dude in Utah and got hurt a lots when he came to the Nets and things fell apart
Has no one ever noticed that Luka Doncic plays EXACTLY like Deron Williams, only he’s much more efficient? You can put their highlights side by side and it’s the same exact player.
That’s a very good comparison! I’ll have to check some highlights out but yeah I see what you mean.
+4 inches
You know what... You're right! Great comparison
ok, but at 6'3 this type of game is the reason his career was cut short - not really athletic and weight problems.
Jamal Murray plays more like Deron than Luka does.
The Utah Jazz lineup was much like Deron WIlliams' fringe in 2008; covering up some serious problems.
GYYYYYYAAAAAD DAAAAAAMNNNNN LMFAOOOOOO
Still remember when Jerry Sloan quit coaching.
That bogut pick to the jazz
Is actually dope
Built Electric T.V. He played at university of Utah also
16:30 - "Punishing" point guard? If you really think about it, the #1 pick in this Redraftable is that guy. Chris Paul plays a lot like that now. Kyle Lowry, Malcolm Brogdon, Eric Bledsoe and Derrick Rose.
Definitely Russ, but he might need his own category.
I fell for the Deron Williams hype in Utah. Thought he was the best PG in the game. Some friends tried to tell me it was Paul, but no, I didn't believe. Man I whiffed.
we forget how good sloan was and how good boozer plus the unknown mathews miles brewer millsap and okur became and what good fits korver and kirilenko were to go with the steady bench experience of matt harpring and that year of derek fisher..he had talent around him...backups like price maynor gaines giricek and burks as well and bigs like koufos and fesenko ....they just had real talent on those 2005-2011 teams...
Me too you wasn’t the only one
It wasnt hype. D Will at the time was one of the best PGs in the NBA but he didnt peak out. The difference is CP3 took his game to another level on the Clippers. When it was New Orleans Vs the Utah Jazz it was very comparable.
This was a great time in the NBA. Nash was still Great, Cp3 and D Will were competing for the top Spot, Curry and Russ were showing signs, Rondo was on the come up and then Rose took over.
I thought D Will was better and for about 5 years it was a toss up.
Wow, they weren't kidding about how much the advanced metrics love Chris Paul. According to those he's a top 10 player of all time. I'm pretty sure no one outside of his inner circle would ever put him up there
Andy H he’s a top 5-8 PG all time imo. He doesn’t have any rings or even a finals appearance but he might be the best defensive PG ever or at least 2nd behind the glove. And in his prime he was legit 22/5/11 with 1st all defense. He averaged 3 steals a game multiple times I mean the guy was insane
@@connorsmith6517 Sure, he's a great player and absolutely in the top 10 of PGs. But top 10 overall? No way.
His assist to turnover ratio was phenomenal for so many years
Andy H Yea his advanced stats are insane.
@@silewis9396 It still is
Bill's face trying to look up Bogut's stats after Russillo picked him... :D
Watching after Chris Paul got bounced by the Mavs in the second round
Apparently Westbrook is not physical enough to be remembered at 16:15
Thought the exact same thing
Westbrook a bum
I was thinking that too and I don't even love Westbrook that much. Also to a much lesser extent, guys like Eric Bledsoe and Marcus Smart fit that mold though they aren't threatening enough offensively to be obvious choices.
I immediately thought of Simmons
I think they were talking about physical punishing point guards. Westbrook is more athletic and speedy. Bully ball players are a dying breed
Pacers always find these talented young guys you don’t expect.....Reggie Miller, Jermaine O’Neal, Danny Grainger, Paul George, and Victor Oladipo
True. They never really get the attention they deserve for developing talent. And you can add Lance Stephenson and Sabonis to that list you’ve got as well.
I mean, it's not like they found Oladipo late... didn't he go 2nd? (It might've been 4th? But I know it wasn't 3.) But he also should've gone 1st, and that wasn't retrospect. In the moment Anthony Bennett going 1st was shocking.
Why is everyone talking about Perkins injury in 2010, but no bynum in 2008 is never brought up? 🤔
They traded for pay AFTER bynums ing, a Chan c e to make a move to accomodate the injury, whereas perkins got injured during finals (up 3-2 in series no less) and no chance at an upgrade with current roster, my best guess as to why
Pau , autosprll did me wrong on this post, sorry( rushing cos at work)
@@supasmits looked it up and it sounds reasonable
partly because lakers lost by 39 in game 6, harder to sell bynum would have tipped the scale, meanwhile in 2010 celtics lead going into the 4th quarter of game 7, had 20 less ft attempts, and lost by 4, easier to sell perkins would have put them over the top, all what ifs but makes sense people mention perk getting hurt more
supasmits but look at 2010 perk numbers and look Bynum 2008 numbers/impact/presence obviously Bynum is the bigger loss dickhead
I never got the Deron Williams cp3 comparison. I put up CP’s career stats vs Deron williams 3rd through 8th yeah and per 100 Paul is clearly, obviously better.
Andray Blatche = Budget Magic Johnson, I never heard that in my life, wtf Rusillo?
Bogut was a good pick. Its not about stats, its about drafting a winning player. Other than have an all star, having Bogut is the next best thing really.
A role player who understands perfectly what he is meant to be doing. You definitely want him over a run of the mil iso scorer you can get anywhere.
No - if the Bucks had drafted Chris Paul they would’ve gone somewhere in the playoffs or at least been a borderline contender. He and Michael Redd would’ve been great until Michael Redd got injured
@@elijahruderman i never said Bogut should have been number 1 lol
I meant a good pick for Russilo at #3
Elijah Ruderman he meant having prime bogut will help you win more than a all offense volume scorer type like monta Ellis or Lou will
@@elijahruderman Well we would have never gotten Giannis in this scenario i think so it worked out all in good time.
@@casualfandestroyer2503 Well yes of course but I was just saying that they should've picked CP3 at number 1.
Bogut was always a valuable player. and it really shined when he was able to play on a good team. also people always forget how good Granger was.
We really got robbed with the Danny Granger and Derrick Rose injuries. LBJ and the Cavs/Heat/Cavs owned the weak East because the Bulls and Pacers lost those players; the ECF would've been so much better if those two had stayed healthy. The Pacers with George and Granger would've been like a poor man's Celtics with the 2 Jays (but also, if I remember correctly, George Hill and Roy Hibbert) while the Bulls were still very good with Noah, Deng, and early Butler... but Rose was the guy who put them over the top and made them a legit contender instead of merely a tough out.
D-William also used to beat up Chris Paul on the court with his size, you can check their match-up stats. I'm sure it was the case. When you are supposed to be the best in the league, but you aren't the best on the court, people would be debating it after games. (Same thing happens to Yao Ming vs Dwight)
CP3's last 2 seasons have made this question even more laughable. Not. Even. Close.
So Nate Rob isn't even in the conversation?
24:02 I freaking love Ryen Rusillo for those sarcastic remarks lol
The Jazz owned the Warriors during the We Believe era. I'm a huge Dubs fan. I was at two of those games against the Mavs in '07. I didn't really think we were beating Utah. They were just too big. Boozer and Kirilenko ate our lunch.
I will always remember Paul as a great player that always found a way to loose.
Deron literally had an ankle injury then lost a step. When you're a small guard that's all you need to ruin your career.
He was a small guard? Really? 🤔
Cp3 had a knee injury and he lost some explosiveness
Yeah when you have a strong, skilled player and those lose that quickness, it can change everything. You see it with running backs too.
Bogut was playing for Utah (university) as I remember (probs not well...) but i beleive they would pick him
Bogut was the number one pick. The league changed and he got hurt.
No offense pls someone put respect on Channing Frye
Channing Frye was pretty good and seems like a really cool dude
You should call the series Ryen pitched "The Worst Of Times" and feature every NBA team's worst stretch... That's a documentary series with 30 episodes... YOU LIKE THAT!!
he would only really need to do like half the teams...half of them don't have long knicks like struggles
Neither Bill or Ryen seems to remember the entire crux of the cp3 vs deron argument which was that head to head deron absolutely brutalized cp3 repeatedly, team winning wise and statistically. Their memories ain’t doing so hot to completely whiff on what the entire argument hinged on. 😂
Is it wrong to think Bogut at 3 is perfectly fine, I’m not sure about the fit tbh but still a solid, solid pick
What also added to the debate was that early in their careers Deron was always killing CP3 in head to head matchups
This is the part that truly was at the head of the argument. Paul was better against everyone not named Deron. It's eerily similar to Kyrie and Steph. Steph is better but because Kyrie gave him the business, people act like Kyrie is better. It's a fascinating dynamic.
It was never close between Williams and Paul... the advanced stats show that Paul was the vastly superior player at both ends of the court...
Bynum should be higher if you trying to win a chip, his peak was way higher than some of those other dudes. Was arguably the best center in the league
In 2012 maybe, when LA was irrelevant. Avg. 7/5 in 09 and 10 playoffs.
Nothing wrong with Bogut. A borderline all star most years who could pass, play d, and could score 20 points a game but didn’t need to to affect the game positively. Any team should be glad to have him.
These past 2 weeks I’ve prob watched every single podcast y’all have done together
Takin 6mans over a Center in Bynum who some thought was better than Howard and when healthy tipped the scales in the finals over the Celtics.
Bold strategy
I was a huge fan of D. Williams but he getting Sloan to retire should have been a sign, and it was really the beginning of the end.
So happy to see my boy Danny Granger getting love!
Andrew Bogut over Granger. Underrated.
I’d have been interested what Bogut could have done if he didn’t have that bad injury. He still had a great career and was a great rim protector after that. I’m glad he was given some love here
Chris paul/david west duo was awesome back in the days.
It was a valid discussion cp3 vs Dwill. Injuries and paul going to another level in La makes it seem crazy now.
How was it a valid conversation? Even prior to Williams' production falling off a cliff in the 2013-2014 season, CP3 was the better scorer, passer, and defender. On what grounds was anybody taking Deron Williams?
They weren't miles apart since CP3 was a top 5 player at his peak while D Will was more top 15 guy at his peak. However, there was no comparison who you would rather have of the two which is why the debate was stupid. CP3 was better in basically every facet of the game.
It was never a valid discussion lol Cp3 got robbed of an mvp in New Orleans. Deron Williams never played at that level
@@jmoney4220 u dont remember there no comparisons now but Deron dominated him head to head earlier in there careers. CP3 is clearly the better player but there was actual debate earlier in williams career in Utah.
Paul doesn’t have a terrible résumé in 2022.
Ryen banned from that podcast now 😂
What happened?
@@dimitrijetucovic1307 A weird pod...
@@davidrozec4895 Which one, please?
@@dimitrijetucovic1307 www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2020/6/1/21276563/a-truly-sad-week-in-america-plus-the-2005-nba-redraftables-with-ryen-russillo
A lot of sore butts apparently
interesting they didn't bring up defense, where there is no comparison
That 7 minute intro still throws me off lol
"I'm not gonna pull a Portland" that stings, Rusillo... But that's fair lmao
As a Magic fan I feel like we can probably produce 4 separate top 10 entries on that "worst 5 years of decision making". Lowballing Shaq to chase him out of town is probably the single worst decision any franchise has made in NBA history. We basically haven't made a good pick outside of Shaq, Penny and Howard and even the Penny pick doesn't look good when you see how badly we blew the capital we got for trading down to him and how much better Webber's career was and I say that is one of the all time Penny stans out there!
Penny was overall more talented than Webber, the team ruined Penny when they made him play thru injuries.
Portland had drawn the third pick on that draft and decided to move down to draft some guy named Martell Webster because they already their "Point Guard of the future" Sebastian Telfair, They could of had Chris Paul or Deron Williams and threw their pick way for a journeyman and a bust. Bad GMing.
In Utah Deron Williams had Okur,Boozer,AK-47,Korver,Millsap,Brewer,Manning,Mattews,Miles. In. New Orleans Chris Paul had Peja,West,Chandler,Okafor,Richardson,Landry,Collinson. Williams had a better coach and organization also in the time. Chris Paul had to deal with coach changes and the organization was not that good. Yes they a decent team around Chris Paul but only made 3 years 2008,2009 and 2011. Utah made the playoffs 4 straight seasons from 2007 to 2010 and in 2011 they were going to the playoffs but Williams forced to fire Sloan and demanded trade in mid season.
I can’t wait for 06 curious as to were rondo goes
Danny granger is def an underrated player. he was very solid
Russ is that running back kind of point guard, very physical
You know how in 2k you can get almost quarterly ankle breakers with the HOF badge? That's what Deron Williams was at his peak and he would sometimes bump the guy but he never pushed off from what I can remember so it was all skill.
To be fair I had peak dwill over paul at the time looking back I accept I was wrong but he was filthy
Not a bad take honestly, he burned quick but he was a stud
Bogut was a great pick, because it brought us Giannis, and could have directly brought us Steph. He was a pretty darn good player pre destroying his elbow
“To say Deron was better was embarrassing and wrong”
What short memories. D-Will was killing everybody for a solid 4 years and winning head to head. There wasn’t a clear strong argument for CP3 and the Hornets were not inferior to Jazz on paper
I watched Gortat live in Cologne back in the days^^
I don’t know how they even forgot to mention Nate Robinson. If we’re just going based off popularity he’ll be really high on the list. 3 time dunk champ, good three point shooter, 11 ppg for his career for a 5 feet 9 guy who really didn’t start that many games. When he got hot he would score in bunches and he should definitely be ahead of Andre Blatche of all players and Jarrett Jack who had one decent season with the warriors and was never heard of again.
The Raptors had the #7 and #16 pick in in 2005... I've always wondered if they could've packaged those picks to land #4
So glad Ryan feels as strongly about J-Kidd as I do haha
Ryen is insane to think D-Will wasn’t as good or just below CP3 in his prime in Utah and early Nets years
No, he's actually not. That was never a real debate
@@coltonbeebe8779 There's never been a bigger debate
@@MrOctober44 Real ones know its never been a debate. CP3 clearly a notch above.
Westbrook is a bully pg hes running right into dudes lmao
One of Russillo’s dog whistles is his HATRED for Westbrook
@@luckypozzo3068 yes for sure
Uhhhh DWill was a freaking beast. I don't think people necessarily thought DWill was better. But due to him being larger and stronger at the time, I would have taken him over Paul to start my team with.
simmons russillo is the goat sports podcast combo
If everything lined up correctly Pacers could have had Granger, PG13 & Kawhi all on their squad. That would have been dangerous
Why does ryen always sound like hes arguing even when you agree with him lol...and I always got the vibe he was a republican even in the ryen and SVP days I always was annoyed by him and only watched cuz svp seems like a cool guy.
It's really annoying. It's all artifice.
People act like CP3 had no help in New Orleans during those years. How about prime Tyson Chandler and David West? JUST past prime Peja, Bonzi Wells, Mo Pete. That's as good as the team Williams led to the WC Finals.
Let's not play this revisionist history nonsense that CP3 didn't have the talent Williams did. HE ABSOLUTELY DID. Each PGs best squad got eliminated by the Spurs. No shame in that.
There is an definitely room for debate during those first 5 years. In my opinion, I'd take Williams from 2005-2010 by a hair. Obviously Paul for the entirety of their respective careers.
Bogut at number 3 is solid. Great role player, and a hard role to fill otherwise. And that's him with the injuries, who knows how he goes in another universe where injuries are kind to him.
How is Westbrook not a physical point guard
Chris Paul, my favourite player of all time. Miss him on the clips.
They should retire his number. You guys never had shooters and wing players who were reliable. The Clippers should've won the 2015 Chip.
@@elijahruderman I agree with every word you just wrote. I think people realised when he was on the rockets and especially this season on the thunder how good he actually is. He is the best player in Clippers history (maybe besides Bob Mcadoo but I am too young to have seen him play). Would appropriate for the clips org to have 3 as the first number they retire.
@@tl7653 Yeah he brought a lot of relevance and excitement to their city. He was the third best player in the NBA imo from 2010 to 2014 after KD and LeBron, and he's still a top 5 - 10 player form 2014 - 2017, which is when a lot of young stars started coming into the scene. I also think that CP3's 2015 season was just as good as Curry and Harden and that he should've been at least top 3 MVP voting that season.
One of my 5 favorite dudes too.
This draft just gives me flashbacks of horrible 2000's Bucks management. If passing up on Paul for Bogut wasn't bad enough, they later passed on trading Bogut for Curry. Final scorecard is ending up with Monta Ellis over Bogut over Curry over Paul. That's rough. Thank God for Giannis.
Ahhh I see Simmons removed this from him and Russillo stumbling over how to talk about the protests.
The paul vs williams was an argument. Deron was my favourite pg. Loved that he had size to him and was very crafty. I thought deron was better at the time too. Coming from a raptors fan here
I think the buyout market could be interesting if it allowed teams to free up cap space after the buyout.
But if a team is willing to release a player and they still have the cap penalty, that player is clearly washed.
David lee was on that first warriors championship team his role went way down but he did have a couple moments that season in the finals he gave them a lil spark needed after goin down 2-1 but he's a champ so u have 2 give him that I believe he was never utilized the same after mark Jackson nd he could've been a very good player on a contender at the least a really good role player starting or off the bench cuz he was a smart player he could get u buckets he was an underrated rebounder nd passer nd he seemed like a guy that if he worked at his shooting could've started hitting sum deeper shots and he was part of the first duo that sparked that warriors run wit curry it was him nd Steph wit mark Jackson that started putting the league on notice that they were foreals
Deron Williams talent dropped the minute the Nets went from Jersey to Brooklyn
Are we sure he didn't have some mental breakdown when he got there?
@@75aces97 nope. Jerry sloan made him. Deron was lazy and content with just being okay. He had no drive to get better and butted heads with coaches. He caused the great jerry sloan to retire.
Facts
Jordan Davis it was really the second season in Brooklyn where the dropoff happened. His first season was pretty great.
The ny night life had him distracted like j.r.
In what world is Marvin Williams not a gigantic bust? Y'all making the same mistake the Hawks did overrating his ass
Russillo and Simmons are so full of it. I would say a slight majority of NBA Fans would have taken D-Will over CP3 early in their careers. The stats were basically interchangeable but DWill was the best player on a better team than CP3 and he had a huge advantage in size and athleticism so the projection favored Deron. DWill was a freak of nature at his peak. Injuries and a lack of passion for the game killed his career when he got traded out of Utah
They should do a 1984 re-draft even tho he mentioned it in his channel but didn’t go into full detail on what he would exactly do. This is mine.
1. Hakeem to Rockets
2. Jordan to Portland
3. Barkley to Chicago
4. Stockton to Dallas
5. Thorpe to Philly
6. Alvin Robinson to Washington
7. Willis to Spurs
8. Perkins to Clippers
9. Bowie to Kings
10. Jay Humphries to Philly
Danny granger was my dude Pg24 playing the 2 with him at the 3 west at the 4 was fun