Best 21st-Century NBA Teams with Zach Lowe | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2020
- The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN's Zach Lowe to determine the best 21st-Century NBA team with an eight team bracket-style tournament.
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should do this with teams that didn’t win the title like 2018 rockets, 2019 sixers, 2012 bulls, 2013 Lakers, 2002 Kings
2012 bulls arent gonna beat those other teams. 2018 rockets run over everyone there.
I think the 2017 Cavs beat all of these teams. 2017 Warriors are maybe the best team ever and Cavs were close in game 3 and won game 4. They had maybe the best non-Warriors offense of the decade that year
you forgot 2006 Phx (Joe Johnston went down) or , 2007 Phx with Robert Horry cheap shot
Trolling? 2019 sixers lol, they weren't a top 4 team. Just add 2019 rockets if ur bored.
02 Kings, Griffin/CP3 Clippers, 2003 Lakers, 16' Warriors
The reason we don’t really count KD’s rings as these seminal moments for his legacy is because we didn’t learn anything new from them. We already knew KD was an all time great talent who could put up ridiculous numbers. We knew he was an unselfish teammate and an unprecedented unicorn style player for his size. What we didn’t know is whether he could galvanize a group of players in a period of adversity to play better than they thought they could. We didn’t know if he could dig deep to pull out some amazing performances against all odds. We didn’t know if he was a leader, a winner, and a man to be feared.
This is super reasonable.
Now THIS is an awesome perspective! It's not exactly how I felt about KD's decision, because I felt he chose the best option out of 29 other options and that's real "free agency"..... BUT.....your sentiment can't be disputed. He wasn't tested the same with the Warriors as he would have been had he stayed in OKC or went elsewhere (minus the Cavs at that time).
true...
@R S you actually believe lebron for the most part didnt have an easy route to the finals?Yeah that Derozan/Lowry team was to be feared and dont get me started with that incredible Paul George led Indiana team that self destructed in two years.Yeah he had it rough in the East..There is a reason he is 3-6 in the finals mate and that is that he faced truly elite teams in the finals,not the pretenders that the East had.
@joceja23 Come on bro...I give you the 07 Pistons even though they were on decline,but he had no great team,but like you said he lost to the Celtics(understandable) and after that its pretty much a cakewalk.The 11 Bulls were not a threat with the team he had in Miami nor the old 2012 celtics and the 60 wins hawks was a regular season team with Milshap and Teague as their second and third best player...Who are we kidding here?Since he got to Miami,except his last season in Cleveland,he had the best team and his competition was weak to say the least.
nobody :
bill simmons : when i was writing my book
I vividly remember that during the 2012 season, the Spurs won 20 straight games. They won their last 10 regular season games, they swept the 1st 2 rounds then went 2-0 vs OKC. But OKC won the next 4 games so there's that.
OKC went unbelievably hot in that series.
@@supergaga1712russ harden kd literally were the best trio in 2012 and would of won many titles with ibaka if they stayed together so no shame losing to them
My exes mom got me tickets to see game one of the 2017 finals for my graduation present that year.. Looking back, can’t believe I was in that building. The most special team ever glad to see it all happen before our eyes
You know Bill is just waiting for Zach's espn contract to run out
Are we counting referees to play with Lakers too?
Zach Lowe used to work with Bill at Grantland before ESPN shut it down and Zach moved to ESPN
I don’t think it’s stated enough how tougher it’s been to get out of the West vs the East in the 21st century
People think it’s just been since like 2010, but when you start to look back to 2000, 01, 02, those teams coming out of the East were not great. There was no way the sixers or nets were beating the top four teams in the west those years, much less a Kobe Shaq lakers team.
That's what casuals don't take into account or put in the equation when debating Kobe/Lebron, and still Kobe has more chips playing all that time in the West, literally having to go trough another dynasty in the Spurs to get to the Finals.
The Mavs, Kings, Spurs and Lakers would’ve all won any title from 1999 to 2003. The east really had no shot that whole stretch.
@@solo13th you can argue the east was still way weaker even while Jordan was in it. It was just the bulls and pacers. And pacers were only in the back half of the 90s. Knicks made it but only once.
ubadman1 I agree that the late 90s east wasn’t that great but the late 80s and early 90s east was pretty good.
2014 Spurs were great. Duncan was old but still an All-NBA level player defense and offense. Parker was a top 5 guard in the league. Kawhi back when he didn't have to worry about offense is a top 5 perimeter defender ever. Prime Danny Green top 5 3 and D player, Ginobili a top 5 6th man all time , Diaw perfect fit for their style , deep and arguably the greatest coach ever and they had extreme motivation from the 2013 loss.
@R S That year they didn't play boring...
@R S th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=spurs+2014+highlights
@R S Only because it was expected by that point that they were great, and it was because of their ball-movement, which doesn't create good 3-second highlights. But show me a better team without a seminal, you can't not watch player with hops / dunks and/or step-back 3's.
2014 Spurs are underrated Champs.
Wayyyyyy better than the 2020 lakers
As much as I love the 2001 Lakers, the 2017 Warriors are the best team ever assembled.
It’s arguable both ways - 2017 would not have been able to deal with Shaq
That's why they needed Kawhi to get hurt to win the first one and CP3 to get hurt to repeat. It's the most overrated team in history by far.
@@TheMilapMehta That was one game with the Spurs and Kwahi--a very small sample size to base an entire take on. I'll be fair and balanced. Kawhi would have changed the series, but you can't predict that they would have won the whole thing. If the Spurs were up 2-0 and Kwahi was a big factor, I'd agree with you more, but the Warriors were always fairly resilient. Go back and watch how they took out the Thunder after being way down.
As far as Chris Paul goes, Paul has never won a title. You can't say that about Leonard and those Rocket teams always found ways to lose. He might have changed the series a bit, but the Warriors were a better team, with or without CP3.
2014 spurs would destroy them.
@@TheeRobertPhoenix We're talking about 2 different things. Yes, the Warriors were the most talented/best/whatever term you want to use during their run with KD. The topic is about the greatest teams of the century. The 2017 Warriors are not the greatest.
Everyone points to 16-1 as the end all for them and they are forgetting that this team was getting destroyed at home by the Spurs in game 1. If Kawhi didn't get hurt, that team is 16-3 at best. Do they probably win the series, yes? Would they have been guaranteed to win? No.
I don't know where you are going with your comment about CP3. The facts are that he showed the blueprint for beating the Warriors in games 4 & 5 (half court game, no run and gun. Fewer total shots and fewer total turnovers beats GSW).
Yes, the Warriors had a great team. No, they are not the greatest team ever.
2017 Warriors is probably the greatest team of all time.
I think this Lakers team takes them to 6 or 7 . Ad on KD but AD can't be guarded. Avery Bradley for Steph they may win but this lakers team has a chance
no question, all the people saying the Bulls would beat them are blinded by nostalgia
@@jordanwashington718 i think Draymond can neutralize himself enough you're really underselling just how much shooting is out there. Peak Steph, Klay, KD, with a young Iggy, that's nuts man
@@jordanwashington718 GSW in 5
@@jordanwashington718 And Kd can be guarded ? also Steph torches Bradley, you can look up the stats. and then Klay ? and 2017 Draymond was the best defender in the league( dpoy that year).
Lowe is great. Awesome pod.
loved this , very fun.
If Zach is doing this much content from home, he needs a better mic and light setup. It's not a massive investment.
Stfu bro
Nah
That dude is so smart he could be recording on a flip phone and I'd listen happily lol
needs a comb!
i love topics like this
I think having the 2020 lakers as a higher seed than 2014 spurs is a crime.
I’d agree. As a spurs team too I would have the 2005 Spurs
That prince block on reggie was the most exciting thing I had seen in sports to that point. Nobody was doing chase down blocks like that and bron just made a career out of that lol.
Bill you should do a combining seasons and post season teams: ex 2000 Regular Season Lakers with the 2001 Playoffs, 1992 Bulls with the 1991 Playoffs, etc
Bill can we get a podcast on the new pyramid. Love the work
Really cool video! Just subbed
It is absolutely silly to not include the 2016 Cavs. You know, the team that beat the Warriors at full strength. A team with a big three of perhaps the best wing ever (at worst, the second best), a power forward that kind of defined the stretch 4, and a demon at the point. That team destroys Bill's beloved Celtics, and might well have sufficient firepower to beat the criminally underrated 2014 Spurs. The Warriors team they beat set the record for the best regular season record in history and seemed destined for the championship. They're better than half the teams you chose to look at. I know that Bill has never been as big a LeBron fan as I am. But that team should have been included without a doubt in my mind.
The warriors team was not full strength lol. Curry had an ankle injury the whole series, Bogut had an injury, Draymond was suspended a game, curry was ejected for Bull shit fouls to help the Cavs. Terrible take
@@abejohnson1590 dude the year before with a worse cavs no love no Kyrie. LeBron took essentially the same warriors team to 6 games and almost won. Both of these teams are great and I think its the best player ever for that playoff stretch so they have a shot with anybody.
@@abejohnson1590 😢 you gonna cry?
@@abejohnson1590 the disrespect the warrior fans have for those Cavs teams because they won in 2017 and 2018 is borderline absurd. 2015 Cavs with no Kyrie or love took that team to 6 and had a 2-1 lead. This comical argument about injuries is so pathetic. A.) all the injury issues they had was from CHOICES that team made. 1) They chose to try to win 73 games during the regular season while the Cavs chilled and only cared about being healthy during the playoffs. 2) Those warrior teams (minus Durant) were way better regular season teams than playoff teams, just look at their records in the regular season to the playoffs. They played like garbage for 3 games and went down 3-1 in the conf. Finals and had to play a seven game series which was totally their fault. Most importantly, draymond green brought everything that happened on himself….what other freaking dude has ever even gotten close to accumulating enough techs to get suspended during the playoffs. That dude was a total time bomb at that moment. Lastly, the hysterical talk about bogut’s impact is laughable. The only reason why that is even mentioned is because of how awful Festus played in game7, but IT IS GAME 7 WHY does your coach need to start the 4th quarter big if it means playing a dude who clearly was Pisistratus him pants from his run in the 1st quarter. Dude looked like a deer in the headlights the whole game. K Love literally just grabbed the ball out of both of his hands and laid it up. Kerr had plenty of other options at that moment, he could have just played the death lineup for 12 minutes….LBJ and Kyrie played the entire fourth quarter. Why can’t your players? Gimme a break.
Lol that 2016 Cavs team has one of the most memorable and historic playoff runs but aren't best team caliber.
That series was about LeBron and Kyrie being next level superstars and thats about it. If we talking best duo performances, its at the top but that team was not anywhere near the caliber of the 9 teams mentioned here.
That team wasn't that great IMO, they didn't even win 60 games and had a layup avenue to the Finals. Might be LeBrons greatest feat because he carried a bad team to beat the best regular season team EVER. But to say that Cavs team is an all-time great team is just a joke man. LEbron and Kyrie were unbelievable, rest of team wasn't that great. JR had a couple big moments but you replay that series 10 times and Warriors win 9 times out of 10 because their TEAM was better lol
2014 Spurs 💪🏿
Zach Lowe!
Zach’s is one my favorite analyst , I don’t why though , just like what he has to say
His literary / philosophy background. Plus Jackie says he’s one of the best analytics guy in the game
its amazing how much of an influence Simmons has when he knows so little about sports
2014 Spurs are so underrated all time
2005 spurs have more star power and 2005 Duncan/park/manu was the strongest they ever were as a trio
They aren't that good. They just beat lebron that's all. if you think about it. The league has a winning record against lebron in the finals. 4-6
Real talk
Nobody was in their prime that's why
as a heat fan i can attest to this
2017 warriors is the greatest nba team thats ever existed
Look up the 85 lakers
2013 Heat were MUCH better than 2014 Heat for what that's worth. Bosh and Wade in particular were not the same players by the time the finals came around.
01 lakers vs 17 warriors is a battle of eras for sure. Both squads perfectly encapsulate the ethos of the game at that time. The shooting makes it hard to pick against GSW but if refs let them play physically, those lakers have a much better shot
Zach Lowe needs to invest into a decent pair of noise cancelling headphones. Those iPhone headphones are not cutting it.
And decent lighting or a better cam
Bill "Yeah, have Horace shoot like eight threes" Simmons!
Please do this, but for the greatest teams of all time!!!
where is the CAVS team that beat the 73 win Warriors?
thats what im wondering too...i'd say that team was better than 2020 lakers!
Are the 04 Pistons one of the most underrated and overlooked Champions ever?
Theyve always been a champion in my heart.
their defensive legacy is always talked about. I think 2011 mavs, 2006 heat, 2019 raptors might end up being more overlooked but I do feel like the 04 pistons still get disrespected
You can see how much it hurts Bill to hear about the weaknesses of the Celts when they won the championship. That OOOh! from Zach Lowe was everything. Good man Bill Simmon.
2004 Pistons are still my favorites. Definitely underrated among champions.
2017 Warriors are as close as we'll see to an NBA cheatcode or reallife 2k.
Shaq would need to go for 50-60 every game to have a shot.
We forgetting the 2016 Cavs? Lmao
Great fun stuff
These people insisting thd 01 Lakers beat the 2017 warriors are doing a combination of nostalgia blindness and surface analysis.
That series goes 5 at most. Shaq is gonna get put through the ringer on defense.
Depends on the rules your playing with. If your playing with the rules back then, the warriors have NO chance to guard him, NONE.
@@johnnyp5216 and shaq does what on defense vs the warriors?
What's to stop the warriors from just hacking shaw all game?
And why do you mean back then it's 2001 there are no major rule differences.
YES!
I have to go with the 2001 Lakers because they are the only team on the list with prime Shaq. Prime Shaq is just unstoppable. At least with KD, you can put an long, athletic defender on him and slow him down. Nothing can slow Shaq down.
That 01 lakers versus warriors would be tough. Shaq might have scored every time down court but man once he left the court I don’t know how Lakers stay within 20
I don't think any of you realize how beastly Shaquille was in the the early 2000s. He demolished a 7'2" hall of fame, defensive player of the year center in 2001. How would it be possible for the warriors to stop him? He would average 40 pts and 20 rebounds on 70% shooting.
Shaq would also give up 50 a game to KD, because with 2017 Death Lineup, Shaq would not be playable defensively. If KD is at the 5, what is Shaq doing defensively? Guarding KD man 2 man? LOL
Shaq would be in foul trouble 1 minute into game, unless he just stood around and did nothing defensively. They force him into action and nowadays you cant just hide a big by the paint for a whole possession.
Knowing now that the Lakers have won the series, and how seeming close Kawhi was to signing with them this past season, would that change the series outcome at all against the 2017 Warriors (if they don't win how many games)? If not, would Avery Bradley also playing change anything?
No
The hell's Wilson doing in Simmons' house?!
is this Laker team better than the 2016 or 2017 Cavs?
of course not
lets gooo zach lowe
01 kobe could defend kd as good as anyone, he was a monster on defense especially in his youth. People forget, he had games with 3+ steals AND 3+ blocks. People act like putting Shaq in pick and roll is just going to make it easy. 01 Shaq was still athletic enough to at least be as good as love (I'd say better) in those situations. I'd still give the warriors the edge but to act like it's a possible sweep or something is ridiculous. Kobe or Shaq could both go off any given game and win it themselves.
Kd and Kyrie O/U with each other 1.5 years
33:29 - Right Achilles....jumps off his left.... and then what Zach said
@King Nick I hear that.... tore mine twice....same age... you can regain most of your agility, but the reason Dominique returned to scoring 29 a night.... his "weaker jumping leg" was the right leg. Yes was a two foot dunker, but having a healthy take off leg is huge.
Same goes for long jumpers who didn't rupture the take off leg.
Also... the Dirk comparison is the reality. I assume you found Dirk to be a top 5 player at some point right? What does he have skill wise that KD doesn't.... and KD is gonna be more athletic than Dirk.
2 GOATs!!
Well, 4 months later I think I can say that a title with Brooklyn will not change the things for Durant at all because again he's with another MVP in his peak
This makes me wonder if Doc Rivers is a top tier coach. The Celtics team kind of underperformed for their roster compared to the other teams on their list.
The Big 4 in Boston made him look like a great coach, when really, he's just average at best.
I would wait for Doc to blow another 3-1 lead, before I wonder about that...
I will say, I don't think Doc gets enough credit for out coaching pop in 2015. I know that season's couched in the 3-1 stink against Houston, but seriously he was amazing in that series.
also he had this Clippers team playing incredibly well before this. Like out kicking their coverage well. If anything I think Doc is taking a little too much shit for this
@@Coolquip43 not really, CP & Blake were just playing their best basketball in there, plus Blake & DJ were pretty much owning the boards all series long, Old Man Timmy & Diaw just ain't athletic enough to keep up.
hes blown 6 3-2 leads and 3 3-1 leads..hes not that good of a coach
You cannot compare 2001 to 2017. The first thing that leaps to mind is that zone defenses were not allowed in 2001, so the Warriors defensive strategy would have been illegal.
Oooo, man I pity the guy guarding Shaq. :D
dunno if its so clear cut. shaq would have a ts% of 80+ with the triangle offense. the warriors would need to shoot at least 53% from 3 to match him, not accounting for fts etc, but it calls for a very high eff. this series would be fun
Ya know it's funny, I've done endless exercises like these on my own in various journals and sketch books since I was a kid.
So cool to hear some friendly fan's insight. Basketball history is important.
The 2017 Warriors were incredible. And I'm a life long Cleveland resident and basketball fanatic. We got to celebrate our chip for exactly one month. We knew In July of 2016 it was over.
CP3 can't go to the LAL but KD goes to the 73 win Western conference champions.. okay then. Just blew my mind that the league even allowed it.
Thing is the cp3 situation was a trade but with Durant he was a free agent and because of that what could the league do? They can’t just step in and tell somebody they can’t sign on a team cus that goes against everything free agency is supposed to be about. So I hear what your saying but the league had no choice they couldn’t just step in. If that was a trade instead then I think they would’ve vetoed it but it wasn’t
The only reason the League stopped the CP3 trade was because the NBA was running the Hornets at the time. They didn't have an owner. Which makes it REALLY Sus. But there's nothing we can do now. NO hasn't done anything since then, however.
I was at that GSW - OKC game where Curry made that shot. Crowd lost its mind!!!
best regular season game ever!!
@@kylepreuss8557 for sure. Went with my dad. Curry broke all time 3pt record record in a season and in an individual game. So good.
17 cavs was kinda good and probably deserve a spot. They just went against the best team of all time
I swear everyone sleeps on the 2016 Cavs
Love and Kyrie: Overrated
@@onedone2011 because everyone thinks that if draymond doesn't get suspended,warriors would win the series in 6
32:50 Lowe got the number of Durant-Irving years exactly right: 3.5.
where are the 2015 or 2018 warriors? Or 2012 Miami Heat?
Even though the Warriors only lost once in the playoffs in 2017, I still like the 2018 team the most out of the Warriors with Durant. I think they were pushed harder because of the competition of the whole league. And then in the playoffs, they got pushed by the Rockets. I think the three of them played better together.
If there was ever a team in history built to defend the 2017 warriors, it's the 04 pistons. To say they would beat them in 5 is tough. Tayson/Sheed both running around trying to guard Durant, rip/chauncey trying to run around screen after screen chasing Steph/Klay. Not to mention on the other end, The warriors were a great defensive team in there own right, but they would have severe rebounding issues vs that pistons team with Big Ben/Sheed gobling up all the rebounds. Sheed vs Draymond in the technical fouls war would have been something.
KD did not outplay lebron in the 2017 finals. Lebron averaged a 33 point triple double...kd averaged 35 8 and 5. At best you can say he was at lebrons level but even that is a stretch.
In the clutch it was a blowout.
I agree with the result but the seeding makes the heat team seem worst than it was. They would beat the 08Celtics, 20 Lakers, Pistons, and 09 Lakers. The Spurs were literally the perfect team to counter them with quick passing which shredded their switching and doubling defense.
zach to the ringer already...its inevitable lol
That 2014 Spurs team had incredible talent and such a great coach. The way they took it to that Heat team was impressive
Fisher should've shot 10 3s a game! At least I did on every video game I played.
2016 cavs?
2005 Spurs should have been a no brainer for this list. That was one of the titles with Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all playing at a high level. They beat the Suns and Pistons that year who were the other top contenders. The 2005 team is better than the 2014 Spurs team and several others on this list.
no raptors hurts just a little
Everyone knew the 2017 Ws would win the chip ... except for Nick Wrong !😂🤣😂🤣
Don't you think it's a bit early to conclude which are the best nba teams when there are 80 more years till the end of the 21st century?
2001 Lakers: Shaq should be forced to shoot 25 free throws.
The 2016 Cavs deserved to be here
2015 CAVS: AM I JOKE TO U
I agree, the two titles kd won with warriors will never mean as much as, say, the two titles Hakeem won or even the one title dirk won.
Mean as much to whom?..
I think the Miami team that played OKC was the best in that stretch
finding a way to slander gary harris in this video is wild
No Cleveland
Bias as home
How are the 16 Cavs not on this list? Best LeBron performance ever.
I agree with the sentiment that the 2017 Warriors would go over the 2001 Lakers. That said, I grimaced thinking about Shaq posting up Draymond 50 times per game. I think Draymond would actually die.
Would the pace of the 2001 Lakers allow the Warriors to even put up enough 3s? Modern Era the Warriors steamroll everyone but they’re playing in 2001 there is no way they get enough threes up to even compete.
Thats not how comparisons work... why would the warriors slow down? They have more shooters, a top 2 defense, and they win by putting shaq in pick n rolls.
2016 cavs could have done some damage here
The 2016 Cavs belong on here.
Where’s 2016 cavs and warriors??
Who on the 17 Warriors can guard 2001 Shaq or Kobe..?
No one is guarding Shaq. Green and Iggy are slowing Kobe down
@@anthonynorman7545 yeah but a young iggy on the Sixers was getting roasted by Kobe.. don’t think old iggy has a better chance..
@@coreyc2528 older Iggy has more knowledge. A lot of defense is mental.
14 second reset is a FIBA thing
"Paul Pierce has a lot of success against Lebron James" lol
Surprised the 2016 Cavs aren’t included here…
The Warriors would stomp any of the bulls teams too😊
well duh..i told people you have to make it fair...either take kd off the 2017 warriors or put a star onto the 96 bulls to make it fair...lets say clye dexler ...if they had pippen rodman mj clyde toni then its more fair against kd cury klay green iggy
Let me save time and just say 2017 warriors win easily
2012 - 13 Heat want to say hello 👋
@@johnnybaddsee 2001 Lakers bash the fuck out of those Heat teams, still the same bums who lost against Dirk and a bunch of uncles.
bumdog you really think that team wouldn’t give the 17 Warriors endless amounts of problems?
@@johnnybaddsee by issues do you mean lebron? lebron would get his. but 2013 lebron isnt as good a shooter as 2017. and i dont see who is gonna guard curry on the heat.
ubadman1 I think DWade and Bosh with that version of LeBron is a huge problem for that Warrior team. In addition to the perimeter defenders MIA possessed I think in a best of 7 MIA is a disgustingly tough out and best of the 21st Century IMHO. But yeah, that Warriors team is tough as nails and there are plenty of compelling arguments for them to be the best as well.
They should of set this playoff tournament in 2k21 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Go Golden State Warriors.
Where the Kawhi Raptors at????
2001 Lakers:
Add Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel
Andre Igadaula and Klay Thompson would've given Kobe the Blues. Agreed. Warriors in a gentlemens sweep.
Lol. Funny.
2017 Cavs should have been the 2 seed
Surprised they didn't seed the 2017 Cavs team. That had to be up there with one of LeBron's best teams. They completely steam-rolled the playoffs.
Kinda crazy that we completely neglect the fact that the Rockets took that amazing Warriors team to 7 games without cp3 the last 2 games.