IMO when doing the roll races, you should let each car start in the gear that is best for that specific car, not arbitrarily 2nd gear. Every car is geared differently, both at the transmission and final drive. It is obvious here that the Camaro has much taller gears and if it starts the 32 roll in 1st, you'd have a much different result.
Heres what people need to understand. it's not how many total HPs you have. It's how fast the engine in general can utilize a 100% of the HPs in x amount of time and in what x gear it is in. With great engineering BMW simply can hit a higher utilization of its HPs in a distance (EV cars are also a prime example too). However, if the road was infinite that is where total HPs will matter and will determine who is the winner. @@hpickettz34
@@sufficetosay BMW notoriously under rates their HP ratings. Not sure if it is making 530-540, but it is probably significantly more than what's advertised.
@1LE_Ciko Why would a Camaro cost more than a BMW M2???? It's also alot nicer car , with alot more features....it's more to a cars price than performance smh these TH-cam car guys thinking is off. A 5 series costs more than a Chevrolet Malibu too...
It's funny that the previous video had a lot of people complaining about the power difference. The camaro ss is over 20k cheaper, the driver didn't no lift, and the m2 has around 460whp. Either way, they're both great cars 👌🏾
Camaro is short shifting...the one race he hit all the gears at the correct rpm he pulled away. These cars run essentially the same 1/4 mile times driven properly. 12.9 in a 6th gen is pathetic lol I've ran faster in my 4th gen with a lid and 200tw tires.
"It doesnt feel like an M car" It literally has the same 6MT as in ALL the M cars. "I mishifted into 5'th 3 times" learn to drive better, If you're going into 5'th from 2nd it means YOU are expecting too much gap between gears NOT the other way around (as you stated). "I cant figure out the AC" You literally just press AC auto on or off and it will take care of the rest once u set the temp u want. If YOU pressed the A/C settings at the bottom of the screen while trying to do something else that is on u man not the car... "Launch control is terrible" Its literally 1 button to set it up (if owner programs the setting into M1/M2 buttons on the steering wheel). You LTTERALLY just press and hold throttle and release the clutch when it says ACTIVE. Common Man LOL.......
Spot on. I own a G87 M2 MT6 and don't experience ANY of these issues. I NEVER shifted from 2nd to 5th, you simply let the gear go naturally upward towards 3rd - so try a open hand shifting technique. Only thing I really agree with is the climate control and lack of physical buttons, but after reading the manual and doing research, I created a shortcut that makes it easier to get into the AC options. Other than the complaining, this was actually a good race.
@@Chris13002 He grabs the shifter like a noob and try to muscle it into 3rd. You need to palm shift and let the shifter glide itself into gear. He should just test automatic cars.
I try not to critique these races as they're full of holes but hard not to. For example, why count down a roll race...totally unnecessary! Why not give the viewer complete information, like launch control, traction control, gear and rpm status? More information is almost always better. Good thing the matches are interesting, or I wouldn't bother watching.
Is that actually a 1LE or is it a regular SS with the 1LE wheels, splitter and skirts? The real 1LE has a matte black hood and 6 piston brembos along with MR shocks.
I’m not sure why people insist on drag racing the 1LE the TR6060 gearing in the car is specifically set up for a road course( long gearing ). Hence the reason it did better on the second roll race.
Because the 1lE is the coolest looking version of the SS and the vast majority of people don't have the required skills to drive in anything other than a straight line, and you can't have a handling contest safely on public roads. I'm agreeing with you though - I own a 1LE and track it every chance I get!
I love taking my 23 2ss 1le to the track. That’s where it shines. Now the $40k price tag you have I know it says 1ss 1le but. My 21 1ss was $41k and my 23 was $57k. If you can find a 23 1ss 1le for $40k it’s probably a rebuilt title. The guy driving the 1le should give the no lift shift a try next time. Hitting 0-60 in 4.1 on the street is impressive but the 12.9 quarter isn’t.
Driver from camaro have no clue how should dragrace a n/a engine with manual transmission. Many times he short shifted first two, even three gears. He doesn't know his engine makes power up revs, BUT ALSO as high in the gear he shift, as well he will avoid spinning wheels a lot by low down torque.
@@napraznicul they were both short shifting. Also the manual M2 wasn’t made for racing, it’s made for the pleasure of 3 pedal driving. If you wanna race the M2 buy the auto, much tighter gearing and much quicker shifts.
Exactly. It’s meant for the auto even the boss of M said so, that the manual was only offered for purists. Put autos in both cars the m2 demolishes that scamaro
@@Bimmer_Bill100% fact manual BMWs are so niche now and fit such a small market most people would rather just put their foot on the break engage launch control and go 0 to 60 in less than three seconds🤣🤣🤣
Impressive run from the Camaro. Especially considering it's a track car, and a good one at that. The Camaro officially crossed the line into sports car territory in 2016. What a shame it ends soon. I bet a next generation Camaro would have been phenomenal if they made it look good.
Would be interesting to see the dyno graph of each vehicle. Peak HP is fine if you're looking for top speed, but torque to weight is what is being tested here. And then there's the torque curve, gearing, etc. Given the MSRP of the M2, I still would rather get a ZL1/ZLE. Oh and before anyone chimes in with how much they think a ZL1 goes for, I got MINE for $2k over the base M2.
@@SuzukiKid400 No, it was $65K USD, which translates to $87011.92 CND. Also, this was new in 2022. Anyone trying to buy a new 2024 is running a fool's errand. How much do you think a new M2 will cost when BMW states that they will not be making a new M2 the following year?
These 2 cars are so close. It becomes more of a driver to win in races. Because time is so close. They both are pretty equal to me. But price probably very different lol
Something people don't consider is you pay around 20k less for the Camaro. What happens when you add 20k in mods to the Camaro? Thats why GM is always good bang for your buck.
I get the whole manual thing but really after so many manual cars and sports cars I prefer automatic or manumatic with paddles. I saw a race on TH-cam where a M240i with a JB4+ computer with Bluetooth and a phone app to activate different maps beat a M2 for so much less $$$. I prefer the 4 series coupe because to me this new M2 looks like a Scion Tc on steroids.
What makes me mad about general motors , is the inconsistencies. The CT4 V Blackwing V6 makes 472 hp ... the ss Camaro makes 455 😑 The turbo 4 Camaro makes 270 while the V6 Camaro makes like 306 . Not much more than the 4 cylinder. None of the horsepower numbers makes sense to be all over the place like that . Very inconsistent and then the vehicles aren't efficient enough to put all the power down.
This model has the "infamous" CDV valve? that for sure is a problem on manual BMW from E46 onwards. I have a manual 140i and due to CDV i can't shift fast since i have a 1/2 sec delay, the other car an 318is E30 does not have CDV and the shift are perfect
That's ok, the guy in the Camaro was shifting like molasses and I don't think he was using the no-lift shift. Though, as a long time manual driver I can see where overcoming that muscle memory would be very difficult so I'm not mad. But dang, he was shifting like he had his grandma in the back seat holding a hot bowl of soup.
So, the manufacture spec show the auto faster than the manual trans fir the camaro. I would assume the same of the BMW, why did you pick the slower versions of these cars?
Randomly starting in 2nd gear handicaps the car with the taller gears. They should start in the gear that's best for the car. You'd hope that a car channel that races cars would realize that.
@@Boblib1970 I like Sam and good channel but there’s things he just don’t understand or know. You can’t dictate what gear people roll race in…. You’re probably handicapping one of the vehicles that way
Its because the taller gearing in the camaro doesnt work well in 2nd gear at 30mph. What gear your in doesnt matter, start at 30mph in whatever gear works best for the car..
Sam Great job. I do have one recommendation: to take out the effect of driver’s skill effect from the eauation, I suggest you swap cars and repeat the same races. I don’t think every driver is as skilled as you.
The Camaro is actually the faster car. When you race the BMW M2 against the ZL1, the M2 did 12.6 seconds 1/4 mile. The same time the M2 did against the Camaro SS... but when you ran the Camaro SS against the Z and Supra the Camaro SS did 12.5 seconds 1/4 mile. So the bottom line is that the Camaro SS is 0.1 seconds faster than the BMW M2 in the 1/4 mile which is about a car length, even with useless drivers in the Camaro SS. That the Camaro SS is a faster car, even a blind man could see when you were doing a roll race from 43 Mph, at that speed bad shifts don't matter as much as at lower speeds or from a standing start.
It makes 453HP on paper the M4 non-comp makes 473HP. But yes, it is making more than 453HP. I have a 2018 M3 Comp and if people think it only makes 444HP like it says on "Paper," that's incorrect. Has to be closer to 470-475HP if I had to guess but, who knows... Loving you videos FYI.
Did the driver in the Camaro say he was in sport mode too? I heard the driver of the BMW2 say he was in race mode?. So, being the owner of a Camaro SS1LE, it also has a race mode and track mode that you can combine.I thought that was interesting that the driver of the Camaro said sport mode. Also, was the hood wrap removed from the SS1LE? All of the 1LE's come from the factory with the hood wrap.
@@SamCarLegion I'm ripping on the M2 more than anything. More power and more money, but in an everyday street race scenario, it's gonna get beat to 60MPH 9 out of 10 times. Sure, it's the "purist" version of an M car, but if you used the price difference cash to upgrade the M240i, the "purist" will be left in the dust every time, even on a road course. I'm not high, just making a valid point. ✌
Both cars are spectacular and are great bargains how ever you look at it. The competition is fierce but Sam gave us another exceptional comparison beyond paper. Cheers
Do you remember when we used to drive cars ? Now they drive us and complain about them holding us back ?? I cannot tell if its just ego (A bad tradesman always blames his tools) or new cars are just taking control and destroying the driving experience.
The SS has more HP, more torque and weighs less. I'm surprised by the result. I guess it's true as the say goes...BMWs punch way above their weight. I wonder if rear gearing and tranny gearing is what allowed the M2 to take the win?
It's embarrassing the way BMW consistently underrates their HP numbers. Depending on the model, you can count on their cars having 50-100+ more HP than they state. Under promise and over deliver must be their motto.
Yeah I started to say lol SS1LE has tall gears and 2nd gear around 30mph is the wrong gear to be in. It's the faster car for sure and better track car despite being 8 years old almost 😂 for over 20 grand less
Where is it faster ? Must be why it lost the drag race, because it’s so much faster…..yeah. And the one rolling race it won, was only because the Camaro accelerated first. In all other races the M2 killed the Camaro.
@_carfreak_2812 are you serious? The roll race tells ALL. Dig races have to much driver input/skill to tell the tale. The one and only time they were at the appropriate speed for the 1LEs gearing, it beat it by 3 car lengths. Should've been in 1st gear technically for the first rolls. It's also way faster on track, and it's 25k dollars cheaper, and 8 years old. The fact that it's EVEN CLOSE is pathetic. Like, really pathetic. The BMW should be faster by a LOT in every category. But then again, the 1LE is the greatest sports car bargain of all time, 0 to 60 in 3.8 secs.
@@GERONIMO326 Yeah Iam serious. The Camaro lost every race except one. And that was the race where the Camaro accelerated before the BMW and the speed was to high for the second gear in the BMW. At that speed the M2 had to shift into third gear directly after take off, which is far from perfect. Anyway the automatic M2 smokes every Camaro SS. So that’s that 😂
@@GERONIMO326 You're 100% correct. This guy lacks the fundamental understanding of gearing and its effect on acceleration. The fact that he thinks that the M2 is in the wrong gear for the 3rd race because he had to shift immediately at the start tells you all that you need to know. 🤣 What's disappointing is that a car channel that is built of racing cars also lacks this understanding. If you truly want to test acceleration, you let each car start the roll race in the appropriate gear for that car, not arbitrarily 2nd gear.
@@_carfreak_2812 Think about what you are saying.....The BMW was in the wrong gear because it had to shift immediately......what's the alternative? To start in 3rd gear? What happens then? The BMW is at the bottom end of the gear and has to build RPMs to get back to making its peak HP, thats what. And that is exactly what you DONT want to do in a race. It is exactly what Jordanchitwood is saying is happening to the SS in the 32mph roll.
I don't think both cars were shifting gears properly.. but with the Camaro specially its obvious how the car was losing the power on each shift .. sounds like not shifting on the right rpm
i expected much better results for the bmw, camaro ss uses the same platform than the cadillac ct5, means that its supposed to match against a 5 series not a 2 series...
Things you don’t see with the naked is the fact bmws make at the wheels what they’re rated at the crank😮. So the M2 should have won with it having about 30-45 more hp. Look it up if you don’t know. Guarantee the M2 makes 440-450whp compared to 380-390whp in Camaro.
BMW Never made a good shifter so it’s no the M2…BMWs are built around their DCT/Autos and if I needed up getting one, I’d get a DCT or ZF being a S2000 & 6th Gen Camaro & Va STI owner…
It's truly sad that the BEST 0-60 in my 2019 SS 1LE M6, on dirty Texas roads was 4.2 seconds once. Yet my best 1/4 mile is 12.2 seconds with an awful 4.5 seconds 0-60 time on that run! My 2023 is capable of 2 things my 2019 wasn't, it can do launch control with less than one tire revolution up in smoke, PLUS they fixed NLS-ing to where it can finally do 1st to 2nd without losing 0.5-0.8 seconds in 0-60 times versus doing it myself. All to say my 2023 can do 0-60 often in 3.9 seconds, although I've lost my safe 1/4 mile place to test that. But your Camaro Driver is NOT using L/C yet is getting a 0-60 in 4.1, yet somehow looks like he's hitting brakes just before the cones and getting a 12.9 1/4 time??? This reminds me when a T-Rex supposedly beat a C8 Z51 that can do, and I've seen it do, a 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, FASTER I might add, then our buddy's Tesla Model 3 Performance can, in 3.1 seconds! All to say, either your guy doesn't know how to use L/C and/or your guy doesn't know how to use NLS-ing??? But 12.9 is abysmal and smells of lifting. ESPECIALLY with a 4.1 0-60 time. The worst he should get is 12.5!!! In a roll race at Ennis, I did a 10.8 seconds 1/4 mile at same 116 mph, the Camaro has 100 lbs less and 49 more ft-lbs of torque!!! Please find a different driver that knows and loves Camaros, PLEASE 🙏
Dude ur acting like the m2 didn't get a terrible time aswell. The m2 is faster this is now the 4th vid if seen of the m2 beating this camaro. Get over it.
@@G82Watts bring your pre-2025 stock M2 w/M6 to Texas and $1,000 cash in fist, and I'll be in my 2023 base SS 1LE M6. I've never once lost to an M2 in "Mexico" on CoTA or MSR, or in Autocross. Not to mention I've never SEEN an M2 in VERY Advanced Track Day group at either MSR nor CoTA. As for me, both places I was told that Advanced is highest I can go in my car, too heavy, not enough hp. Both places, one session at MSR 3.1 I was bumped immediately, after 3 sessions at CoTA... Track manager FORCED Track Day owner to bump me up to fastest group! Albeit left (slowest) lane, but now I'm put at back of fastest lane LOL 😎 The M2 just isn't what you think it is. Only thing they did was put a 4.11 first gear to same 3.73 final drive I have. M2 tops at 40 mph in 1st, Camaro tops at 52 with 2.66 ratio of 1st gear. Mathematically I launch with 4,117.5 rwhp in first. Whereas the M2 launches with 6,193.5 rwhp through mechanical advantages. The C8 Z51 is 2.95 1st gear but 5.17 final drive, giving it effectively 6,399 rwhp AND rear-mid mounted engine puts weight right over the rubber to get 2.8 seconds 0-60. All the mags put pre-2025 M2 at 12.2-12.4 seconds ¼ mile. Online mags put SS 1LE at 12.4-12.5 ¼ mile. But my hard magazines have 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and ¼ mile at 12.1 seconds. Although my best uphill ¼ mile was 12.2 seconds with an awful 4.6 seconds 0-60 on that run. My best 0-60 before getting 19s all around, was a 4.2 seconds. So in theory, an 11.8 seconds uphill ¼ mile was my potential best.
That's an 1LE? Props to the owner! Way to rice out a SS 1LE! It's like someone bought this awesome factory highly track capable street car, and said, "okay, I've got money to burn, and don't really like Camaros and so I want to make it worse than it is, so let's throw a bunch of goofy crap at it." You take the black wrap off the hood, (which makes a SS 1LE stand out, and looks great on the car) but you rock one of those stupid looking black gas cap covers that stick out, then you replace the suede OEM steering with some ricer flat top/bottom, fake CF steering wheel. I'm was even going to knock you about the paddle shifters, but then I remembered they don't even change the gears in a M6 car, they active and deactivate rev match in a GEN6 Camaro M6 car. Lol. And that's as far as I gotten in the video.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
IMO when doing the roll races, you should let each car start in the gear that is best for that specific car, not arbitrarily 2nd gear. Every car is geared differently, both at the transmission and final drive. It is obvious here that the Camaro has much taller gears and if it starts the 32 roll in 1st, you'd have a much different result.
Correct!!!
Not to mention the driver insists on running through all the gears in a quarter mile 🧐
Same thing could be said for the m2 looks like it doesn't build up boost for a couple seconds
Agreed does this every time
I own a 21 1le and 1st gear only goes 30-32 max so 2nd gear is the correct option here
32mph in a manual 1le is soo low in the rpm also he is massively short shiftin except for the 43mph roll... driver mod needed
We all know that V8 Camaros are fast, so this is actually a good test for the m2. It passed the test.
Not really, it was waste of time when we all know the m2 is making 530-540 vs 460 for the ss at the crank.
No it's not.@@hpickettz34
@@sufficetosay yes it is
Heres what people need to understand. it's not how many total HPs you have. It's how fast the engine in general can utilize a 100% of the HPs in x amount of time and in what x gear it is in. With great engineering BMW simply can hit a higher utilization of its HPs in a distance (EV cars are also a prime example too). However, if the road was infinite that is where total HPs will matter and will determine who is the winner.
@@hpickettz34
@@sufficetosay BMW notoriously under rates their HP ratings. Not sure if it is making 530-540, but it is probably significantly more than what's advertised.
Maro put up a fight, especially for a 7 year old car. But that S58 got disgusting top end, almost feels like it’s underrated
bmw always underrates its cars. advertised hp is usually what you get at the wheel.
@@motaz1975Dont talk Bullshit
The camaro is a tremendous deal for 40k.Putting aside the fact that its old,it still perform extremely good.
Giving all these new cars all they can handle. And it mogs the Nissan Z at the same price, it was definitely ahead of its time
2023 SS1le is over 50k, not 40. Maybe a 5 or 6 year old 1le can be got for 40k or under, but not a newer one.
@@p.smallz61681ss 1le 49k brand new vs what a 65k mid options m2
The SS 1Le is not s 40k car 😒
@1LE_Ciko Why would a Camaro cost more than a BMW M2???? It's also alot nicer car , with alot more features....it's more to a cars price than performance smh these TH-cam car guys thinking is off. A 5 series costs more than a Chevrolet Malibu too...
That exhaust on the M2 sounds like a weed eater.
😂😂😂
Still walks that Camaro Super Slow
Bros weak ahh revs aint helping it either
@@johnvenier6100for 20k more I’d hope so lol BMW gunna brake down anyways tho
@@johnvenier6100 20k cheaper Camaro smoked the bwm badly on the roll
The Camaro would get my money every time and I'm British.
cant replicate that sound anywhere else
It's funny that the previous video had a lot of people complaining about the power difference. The camaro ss is over 20k cheaper, the driver didn't no lift, and the m2 has around 460whp. Either way, they're both great cars 👌🏾
Believe they were competitively priced but many fail to understand and where this match up derived from
I wouldn’t be surprised if horsepower on the BMW was actually higher.
460 whp in your dreams
BMW always underrates their engines. Crank hp is usually wheel hp.
@henzo7087 Go check out the dyno numbers of a stock m2 and let me know what numbers you come up with. They'll probably be higher than 460whp
Camaro is short shifting...the one race he hit all the gears at the correct rpm he pulled away. These cars run essentially the same 1/4 mile times driven properly. 12.9 in a 6th gen is pathetic lol I've ran faster in my 4th gen with a lid and 200tw tires.
Beamer walked that Camaro Super Slow!!
@@johnvenier6100 they run the same times with competent drivers, does that mean the BMW is also super slow?
What you wanted to say is the Camaro won one race that he just jumped haha. People I swear to god
@@mqbr22 they run the same times with equal drivers. There's really not much to debate here
@@tommyistommy don’t be mad cause the Beamer spanked the Super Slow LOL!!!
The driver makes such a huge contribution to the result.
With manuals, suggest switching drivers to see how the results are affected. However, it appears the M2 definitely pulls harder.
I wanted the Camaro to win, but I don’t think John Force could have won that race. The first roll was too low in the RPMs for the Camaro.
@@fivespeed3026 Exactly. They should start the race in the gear that is best for that specific car, not just 2nd gear.
@@fivespeed3026 John Force doesn't shift gears.
"It doesnt feel like an M car" It literally has the same 6MT as in ALL the M cars.
"I mishifted into 5'th 3 times" learn to drive better, If you're going into 5'th from 2nd it means YOU are expecting too much gap between gears NOT the other way around (as you stated).
"I cant figure out the AC" You literally just press AC auto on or off and it will take care of the rest once u set the temp u want. If YOU pressed the A/C settings at the bottom of the screen while trying to do something else that is on u man not the car...
"Launch control is terrible" Its literally 1 button to set it up (if owner programs the setting into M1/M2 buttons on the steering wheel). You LTTERALLY just press and hold throttle and release the clutch when it says ACTIVE.
Common Man LOL.......
Spot on. I own a G87 M2 MT6 and don't experience ANY of these issues. I NEVER shifted from 2nd to 5th, you simply let the gear go naturally upward towards 3rd - so try a open hand shifting technique. Only thing I really agree with is the climate control and lack of physical buttons, but after reading the manual and doing research, I created a shortcut that makes it easier to get into the AC options. Other than the complaining, this was actually a good race.
@@Chris13002 He grabs the shifter like a noob and try to muscle it into 3rd. You need to palm shift and let the shifter glide itself into gear. He should just test automatic cars.
I try not to critique these races as they're full of holes but hard not to. For example, why count down a roll race...totally unnecessary! Why not give the viewer complete information, like launch control, traction control, gear and rpm status? More information is almost always better. Good thing the matches are interesting, or I wouldn't bother watching.
My wife has an SS 1LE and I just ordered an M2. Can't wait to show her this 😂
Is that actually a 1LE or is it a regular SS with the 1LE wheels, splitter and skirts? The real 1LE has a matte black hood and 6 piston brembos along with MR shocks.
Looks like its a reg SS with the 1le wheels
Living in a world where a BMW M2 outweighs a Camaro SS
I’m not sure why people insist on drag racing the 1LE the TR6060 gearing in the car is specifically set up for a road course( long gearing ). Hence the reason it did better on the second roll race.
Because the 1lE is the coolest looking version of the SS and the vast majority of people don't have the required skills to drive in anything other than a straight line, and you can't have a handling contest safely on public roads. I'm agreeing with you though - I own a 1LE and track it every chance I get!
Can’t believe the M2 weighs 150lbs more than the Camaro SS.
3814lb M2…BMW really lost their way.
Get the auto m2, it's significantly faster due to gearing and shift speed.
Nope, I'm happy with my manual G87, seeing it's one of the last manual M cars.
How big of a fricking spider is it that you both need to be concerned?
I love taking my 23 2ss 1le to the track. That’s where it shines. Now the $40k price tag you have I know it says 1ss 1le but. My 21 1ss was $41k and my 23 was $57k. If you can find a 23 1ss 1le for $40k it’s probably a rebuilt title. The guy driving the 1le should give the no lift shift a try next time. Hitting 0-60 in 4.1 on the street is impressive but the 12.9 quarter isn’t.
All car prices has sky rocketed since the Idiot Joe Biden began stinking up the WH.
I’m a BMW guy but I find it absolutely insane that the Camaro has a 6.2 v8 and still comes in lighter than the BMW🤦🏽♂️ what is bmw doing !
that’s that pushrod dino tech that still kicks ass to this day
@@HiddenOne22 Today it looks like it got its ass kicked.
The Camaro Super Slow got gapped
Driver from camaro have no clue how should dragrace a n/a engine with manual transmission. Many times he short shifted first two, even three gears. He doesn't know his engine makes power up revs, BUT ALSO as high in the gear he shift, as well he will avoid spinning wheels a lot by low down torque.
@@napraznicul sounds like the Camaro was short-shifted. Hard to tell without seeing tach.
@@napraznicul they were both short shifting. Also the manual M2 wasn’t made for racing, it’s made for the pleasure of 3 pedal driving. If you wanna race the M2 buy the auto, much tighter gearing and much quicker shifts.
Toyota GRSupra 6 speed manual transmission which was tuned by Toyota, made by BMW is a lot better than the M2 manual transmission
I like the camaro content. Keep it up!
The BMW sounds like a vacuum cleaner. Sad.
the M2 is perfect with the Autom. Transm.
Exactly. It’s meant for the auto even the boss of M said so, that the manual was only offered for purists. Put autos in both cars the m2 demolishes that scamaro
@@Bimmer_Bill100% fact manual BMWs are so niche now and fit such a small market most people would rather just put their foot on the break engage launch control and go 0 to 60 in less than three seconds🤣🤣🤣
@@alexoubre7776 yes 👍
@@alexoubre7776 that unfortunately is true and like I said the manual in these M cars is unimpressive.
Yep, manual cars are for back road driving, auto is for 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs.
Would love to see an M2 8 sp auto race.
Sounded like Camaro was shifting early.
Next time, put the Camaro in Track mode and not sport mode, the valves in the exhaust open up fully.
Not a good comparison.
Impressive run from the Camaro. Especially considering it's a track car, and a good one at that. The Camaro officially crossed the line into sports car territory in 2016. What a shame it ends soon. I bet a next generation Camaro would have been phenomenal if they made it look good.
Would be interesting to see the dyno graph of each vehicle. Peak HP is fine if you're looking for top speed, but torque to weight is what is being tested here. And then there's the torque curve, gearing, etc. Given the MSRP of the M2, I still would rather get a ZL1/ZLE. Oh and before anyone chimes in with how much they think a ZL1 goes for, I got MINE for $2k over the base M2.
You must not be in Canada because you can't buy a new ZL1 at all, and used ones are about $100k.
@@SuzukiKid400 No, it was $65K USD, which translates to $87011.92 CND. Also, this was new in 2022. Anyone trying to buy a new 2024 is running a fool's errand. How much do you think a new M2 will cost when BMW states that they will not be making a new M2 the following year?
These 2 cars are so close. It becomes more of a driver to win in races. Because time is so close. They both are pretty equal to me. But price probably very different lol
Both cars are similar in a straight line or drag strip but not on a track. Hahaha
I’m thinking M2 from the start and it’s over
Something people don't consider is you pay around 20k less for the Camaro. What happens when you add 20k in mods to the Camaro? Thats why GM is always good bang for your buck.
Love BMW but I’ll take the Camaro any day since it is both comfortable and fast.
I get the whole manual thing but really after so many manual cars and sports cars I prefer automatic or manumatic with paddles. I saw a race on TH-cam where a M240i with a JB4+ computer with Bluetooth and a phone app to activate different maps beat a M2 for so much less $$$. I prefer the 4 series coupe because to me this new M2 looks like a Scion Tc on steroids.
Sure wish you'd do some lap battles
M2 , M3, M4 a step above the camaro SS and mustang gt and scat packs but a step below the hellcat and ZL1
But the m2 will make well over 700 whp with a simple flash tune and DP.
@@Bimmer_Bill true that ! the s58 is a beast 🙌
@@mmf9765 yup yup! I have a b58 (m240i) currently but my g80 M3C xdrive will be here by December! I said F it, the S58 is the king!
I think l would still take a M3 over a ZL1 and Hellcat.
@@TurkeyWilliams with ya there brother. Mine is sitting at the port in Bremerhaven right now
I use to no lift shift a 88gli , a 91 hardbody a 88gt etc so you telling me these new transmissions have to be granny shifted? Or is it a driver mod?
What makes me mad about general motors , is the inconsistencies. The CT4 V Blackwing V6 makes 472 hp ... the ss Camaro makes 455 😑 The turbo 4 Camaro makes 270 while the V6 Camaro makes like 306 . Not much more than the 4 cylinder. None of the horsepower numbers makes sense to be all over the place like that . Very inconsistent and then the vehicles aren't efficient enough to put all the power down.
Camaro sound is like symphony to my ears! Not hating on M2 at all! Both great cars!
I’ll take the Camaro all day. 20k cheaper for .2 seconds slower.
This model has the "infamous" CDV valve? that for sure is a problem on manual BMW from E46 onwards. I have a manual 140i and due to CDV i can't shift fast since i have a 1/2 sec delay, the other car an 318is E30 does not have CDV and the shift are perfect
It’s an absolute pain to shift fast in this car without messing up the gears
That's ok, the guy in the Camaro was shifting like molasses and I don't think he was using the no-lift shift. Though, as a long time manual driver I can see where overcoming that muscle memory would be very difficult so I'm not mad. But dang, he was shifting like he had his grandma in the back seat holding a hot bowl of soup.
@@caseybrannon4975😂😂😂😂
M2 probably more like 500 hp no joke . There very underrated.
100%
Bullshit. Camaro is slow ass car thats why
Not bad for rookie manual driver’s
Yep. No one on this channel can drive
So, the manufacture spec show the auto faster than the manual trans fir the camaro. I would assume the same of the BMW, why did you pick the slower versions of these cars?
Got to keep in mind the high gearing for the ss on the roll races.
Randomly starting in 2nd gear handicaps the car with the taller gears. They should start in the gear that's best for the car. You'd hope that a car channel that races cars would realize that.
@@Boblib1970 I like Sam and good channel but there’s things he just don’t understand or know. You can’t dictate what gear people roll race in…. You’re probably handicapping one of the vehicles that way
@@mogulme6190 Judging by these comments, he's not the only one. In fact, he's probably in the majority.
Its because the taller gearing in the camaro doesnt work well in 2nd gear at 30mph. What gear your in doesnt matter, start at 30mph in whatever gear works best for the car..
Sam
Great job. I do have one recommendation: to take out the effect of driver’s skill effect from the eauation, I suggest you swap cars and repeat the same races. I don’t think every driver is as skilled as you.
Fantastic work Sam 🙌🏽
Thank you 🙌
He don’t know how to work the m2 properly and calls it stupid lmao
car wow says the bmw launch control is shit as well
The M2 is so underrated.
Though the BMW may be faster, they're still really close. The price, however, makes the Camaro a much better value option.
The Camaro is actually the faster car. When you race the BMW M2 against the ZL1, the M2 did 12.6 seconds 1/4 mile. The same time the M2 did against the Camaro SS... but when you ran the Camaro SS against the Z and Supra the Camaro SS did 12.5 seconds 1/4 mile. So the bottom line is that the Camaro SS is 0.1 seconds faster than the BMW M2 in the 1/4 mile which is about a car length, even with useless drivers in the Camaro SS. That the Camaro SS is a faster car, even a blind man could see when you were doing a roll race from 43 Mph, at that speed bad shifts don't matter as much as at lower speeds or from a standing start.
It makes 453HP on paper the M4 non-comp makes 473HP. But yes, it is making more than 453HP. I have a 2018 M3 Comp and if people think it only makes 444HP like it says on "Paper," that's incorrect. Has to be closer to 470-475HP if I had to guess but, who knows... Loving you videos FYI.
Did the driver in the Camaro say he was in sport mode too? I heard the driver of the BMW2 say he was in race mode?. So, being the owner of a Camaro SS1LE, it also has a race mode and track mode that you can combine.I thought that was interesting that the driver of the Camaro said sport mode. Also, was the hood wrap removed from the SS1LE? All of the 1LE's come from the factory with the hood wrap.
Twin turbo versus naturally aspirated, them turbo start breathing pretty good after 60 mph
Watching Sam Fighting with The BMW was classic and he is so mild mannered and humble .. Wow BMW you need to fix some stuff
It annoyed me for a bit
PSA: It's not the car...
The climate control is really easy to use, and the manual is very easy and shifts smooth, unless you try to muscle it.
So basically, I could show up in my M240i with xDrive and beat them both out the dig. Add a JB4 and it's gonna be a trip to Gapplebees.
Brilliant idea! 2 manual rwd cars vs an automatic xdrive. How high are you?
@@SamCarLegion I'm ripping on the M2 more than anything. More power and more money, but in an everyday street race scenario, it's gonna get beat to 60MPH 9 out of 10 times. Sure, it's the "purist" version of an M car, but if you used the price difference cash to upgrade the M240i, the "purist" will be left in the dust every time, even on a road course. I'm not high, just making a valid point. ✌
Is anyone know about this race track . Please share the details if anyone knows
Both cars are spectacular and are great bargains how ever you look at it. The competition is fierce but Sam gave us another exceptional comparison beyond paper. Cheers
Do you remember when we used to drive cars ? Now they drive us and complain about them holding us back ?? I cannot tell if its just ego (A bad tradesman always blames his tools) or new cars are just taking control and destroying the driving experience.
I used to love the 2 series, but this one styled by Lego doesn't work for me 👎🏻
The M2. Is a sweet butterfly 🦋
The SS has more HP, more torque and weighs less. I'm surprised by the result. I guess it's true as the say goes...BMWs punch way above their weight. I wonder if rear gearing and tranny gearing is what allowed the M2 to take the win?
turbo vs na
Those bmws put down the advertised hp to the wheels. It's has at least 50 more hp than the camaro.
Also lets not forget that this is a 1LE so those aerodynamic stuff it has isn't good for straight line performance
Why is the M2 not being compared to the ZL1 instead to even the playing field with boost
I think the regular 2SS would fare a little better because it isn't a track car like the 1le
What a close race 😱, good job Camaro. This BMW is like other (most) BMW this times .... ugly?
It's embarrassing the way BMW consistently underrates their HP numbers. Depending on the model, you can count on their cars having 50-100+ more HP than they state. Under promise and over deliver must be their motto.
8 year old design on the Camaro put up a better fight then the new mustang did against the m2
Yeah I started to say lol SS1LE has tall gears and 2nd gear around 30mph is the wrong gear to be in. It's the faster car for sure and better track car despite being 8 years old almost 😂 for over 20 grand less
Where is it faster ? Must be why it lost the drag race, because it’s so much faster…..yeah. And the one rolling race it won, was only because the Camaro accelerated first. In all other races the M2 killed the Camaro.
@_carfreak_2812 are you serious? The roll race tells ALL. Dig races have to much driver input/skill to tell the tale. The one and only time they were at the appropriate speed for the 1LEs gearing, it beat it by 3 car lengths. Should've been in 1st gear technically for the first rolls. It's also way faster on track, and it's 25k dollars cheaper, and 8 years old. The fact that it's EVEN CLOSE is pathetic. Like, really pathetic. The BMW should be faster by a LOT in every category. But then again, the 1LE is the greatest sports car bargain of all time, 0 to 60 in 3.8 secs.
@@GERONIMO326 Yeah Iam serious. The Camaro lost every race except one. And that was the race where the Camaro accelerated before the BMW and the speed was to high for the second gear in the BMW. At that speed the M2 had to shift into third gear directly after take off, which is far from perfect. Anyway the automatic M2 smokes every Camaro SS. So that’s that 😂
@@GERONIMO326 You're 100% correct. This guy lacks the fundamental understanding of gearing and its effect on acceleration. The fact that he thinks that the M2 is in the wrong gear for the 3rd race because he had to shift immediately at the start tells you all that you need to know. 🤣
What's disappointing is that a car channel that is built of racing cars also lacks this understanding. If you truly want to test acceleration, you let each car start the roll race in the appropriate gear for that car, not arbitrarily 2nd gear.
@@_carfreak_2812 Think about what you are saying.....The BMW was in the wrong gear because it had to shift immediately......what's the alternative? To start in 3rd gear? What happens then?
The BMW is at the bottom end of the gear and has to build RPMs to get back to making its peak HP, thats what. And that is exactly what you DONT want to do in a race. It is exactly what Jordanchitwood is saying is happening to the SS in the 32mph roll.
SPOILER ALERT: The spider won. 🕷
I don't think both cars were shifting gears properly.. but with the Camaro specially its obvious how the car was losing the power on each shift .. sounds like not shifting on the right rpm
A couple bolt on mods to the Camaro and the cars would be matched so I’d say it’s a draw, very equal cars.
i expected much better results for the bmw, camaro ss uses the same platform than the cadillac ct5, means that its supposed to match against a 5 series not a 2 series...
Can't believe he started revving the car while it was still in start up sequence lol 2:30
The Camaro lighter than m2 wow I never expected this the m2 might as well be an m5 at this point
Things you don’t see with the naked is the fact bmws make at the wheels what they’re rated at the crank😮. So the M2 should have won with it having about 30-45 more hp. Look it up if you don’t know. Guarantee the M2 makes 440-450whp compared to 380-390whp in Camaro.
Ash noo
I wanna see shift points something ain’t right in some of these videos.
How does horsepower always stay similar but cost higher!
2:34 much better exhaust
BMW Never made a good shifter so it’s no the M2…BMWs are built around their DCT/Autos and if I needed up getting one, I’d get a DCT or ZF being a S2000 & 6th Gen Camaro & Va STI owner…
These new bimmers are nasty fast even the suvs are crazy
camaro all day everyday..looks better, sounds better, put it on the track and the m2 would be done
It's truly sad that the BEST 0-60 in my 2019 SS 1LE M6, on dirty Texas roads was 4.2 seconds once. Yet my best 1/4 mile is 12.2 seconds with an awful 4.5 seconds 0-60 time on that run! My 2023 is capable of 2 things my 2019 wasn't, it can do launch control with less than one tire revolution up in smoke, PLUS they fixed NLS-ing to where it can finally do 1st to 2nd without losing 0.5-0.8 seconds in 0-60 times versus doing it myself. All to say my 2023 can do 0-60 often in 3.9 seconds, although I've lost my safe 1/4 mile place to test that. But your Camaro Driver is NOT using L/C yet is getting a 0-60 in 4.1, yet somehow looks like he's hitting brakes just before the cones and getting a 12.9 1/4 time??? This reminds me when a T-Rex supposedly beat a C8 Z51 that can do, and I've seen it do, a 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, FASTER I might add, then our buddy's Tesla Model 3 Performance can, in 3.1 seconds! All to say, either your guy doesn't know how to use L/C and/or your guy doesn't know how to use NLS-ing??? But 12.9 is abysmal and smells of lifting. ESPECIALLY with a 4.1 0-60 time. The worst he should get is 12.5!!! In a roll race at Ennis, I did a 10.8 seconds 1/4 mile at same 116 mph, the Camaro has 100 lbs less and 49 more ft-lbs of torque!!! Please find a different driver that knows and loves Camaros, PLEASE 🙏
Dude ur acting like the m2 didn't get a terrible time aswell. The m2 is faster this is now the 4th vid if seen of the m2 beating this camaro. Get over it.
@@G82Watts bring your pre-2025 stock M2 w/M6 to Texas and $1,000 cash in fist, and I'll be in my 2023 base SS 1LE M6. I've never once lost to an M2 in "Mexico" on CoTA or MSR, or in Autocross. Not to mention I've never SEEN an M2 in VERY Advanced Track Day group at either MSR nor CoTA. As for me, both places I was told that Advanced is highest I can go in my car, too heavy, not enough hp. Both places, one session at MSR 3.1 I was bumped immediately, after 3 sessions at CoTA... Track manager FORCED Track Day owner to bump me up to fastest group! Albeit left (slowest) lane, but now I'm put at back of fastest lane LOL 😎 The M2 just isn't what you think it is. Only thing they did was put a 4.11 first gear to same 3.73 final drive I have. M2 tops at 40 mph in 1st, Camaro tops at 52 with 2.66 ratio of 1st gear. Mathematically I launch with 4,117.5 rwhp in first. Whereas the M2 launches with 6,193.5 rwhp through mechanical advantages. The C8 Z51 is 2.95 1st gear but 5.17 final drive, giving it effectively 6,399 rwhp AND rear-mid mounted engine puts weight right over the rubber to get 2.8 seconds 0-60. All the mags put pre-2025 M2 at 12.2-12.4 seconds ¼ mile. Online mags put SS 1LE at 12.4-12.5 ¼ mile. But my hard magazines have 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and ¼ mile at 12.1 seconds. Although my best uphill ¼ mile was 12.2 seconds with an awful 4.6 seconds 0-60 on that run. My best 0-60 before getting 19s all around, was a 4.2 seconds. So in theory, an 11.8 seconds uphill ¼ mile was my potential best.
That's an 1LE?
Props to the owner! Way to rice out a SS 1LE! It's like someone bought this awesome factory highly track capable street car, and said, "okay, I've got money to burn, and don't really like Camaros and so I want to make it worse than it is, so let's throw a bunch of goofy crap at it." You take the black wrap off the hood, (which makes a SS 1LE stand out, and looks great on the car) but you rock one of those stupid looking black gas cap covers that stick out, then you replace the suede OEM steering with some ricer flat top/bottom, fake CF steering wheel. I'm was even going to knock you about the paddle shifters, but then I remembered they don't even change the gears in a M6 car, they active and deactivate rev match in a GEN6 Camaro M6 car. Lol. And that's as far as I gotten in the video.
Gotta say Sam , your shifting has vastly improved .
Looked Luke a fun race
Luke Skywalker race
Gotta spend $20,000 more in the BMW to go just a few 10ths faster.
We need the auto in both vehicles next time
Kept cutting right before the 3-4 shift in the Camaro...
Shocked the M2 is the heavier car!
The exhaust on the M2 is comical....lol
Camaro is not rated as BHP. It’s rated as crank horsepower
By the sound of it the camaro driver had more rpm to play with I own the the same year camaro with the same engine and same 6spd
I think the Camaro driver didn’t do the best job.
Camro is more alive and fun yes it has less who but also is somehow 400kbs lighter.
The M2 here costs more than a ZL1 1LE Camaro. Even though I am a bmw guy, I’ll always have a V8 over that drivetrain malfunction of an engine😂
Camaro needs a driver mod on those roll races. Completely looks like he threw them, dropping a shift.