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Docking Sam, u park a car darling.🤣 Wow who's a happy boy then!!! They are some very nice props. Well informed, well presented, can't wait to hear the different speeds and manoverability u r getting now. Stay safe, keep smiling🇦🇺😁
Thank you!!! ❤️ You tell him 😆he's always correcting me 😂😂 We are stoked and super excited about putting them on and trying them out! Can't wait!! 💜💜💜 Cait
I'm sure since you have done all the research you know that you will get better thrust, better fuel consumption and maybe better sailing speed as well . The only con is you will need to rev the motors a bit to get the props to spin out and engage the water so you can maneuver the boat.( so maybe a little bit more care needed in tight quarters maneuvering). I think you have made a great choice and will wait for your conclusion on speed and fuel consumption etc. Thanks for the video.
Cheers Stephen! It is quite a big purchase for us so I did do a heap of research so fingers crossed reality matches what I learnt on paper. I have never parked a boat with folding propellers before but if it's a challenging park I always prefer to reverse park as that is where the wheels are. I am hoping that the folding props won't make to much of a difference as I plan to build up momentum in reverse then just throw her round with foward thrust. Time will tell but I'm looking forward to the challenge and love experienceing new things. -sam
Upcoming vid - Cait's equally expensive purchase to improve life onboard. Bead silicon (or similar) on bump stops to soften slap impact. I'd also be packing the guts with waterproof grease (lube, growth, corrosion). Obviously don't have fixed props available, but be interesting included in the cost vs efficiency comparison, especially sail free-spin drag vs fold. Like for like conditions is tricky tho.
Hahaha Ciat likes your suggestion lol. On paper the fixed props didn't quite match the efficiency. I know on larger ships that CPP (controllable pitch propellers) props are the most efficient. It's all to do with the blade shape with available torque l. I don't understand why fixed pitch could not have the same blade shape as folding and therefore the same thrust? As I didn't want to have to upgrade our gearboxes I didn't look into it to closely l. -sam
Have been running volvo 3 blade folders, which are similar to flexofold , on my cat for 20 years. There are no bump stops on volvo props ....you get a confident thump when going into gear and there is no sign of wear either on the stainless pivots or the brass blade or hub. I don't think there is any problem here that needs a fix.
Great to hear first hand experience, we have heard good things of Volvo's. we are really thankful to have a lot of comments and suggestions 🙏 we love that the cruising community is all about helping each other 💜💜 -Cait
@@chrisjones9089 Interesting. Hindsight, I guess water pressure alone would act as a dampener, vs similar metal to metal out of water. However, also consideration of manufacturing quality 20+ years ago, vs today, warranty term, preventative vs crossing fingers
hiya, i only run a tinnie, hoping to grow into a bigger boat lol, but those feathering props, for me, way too many moving parts that could /can fail so def agree with you to move away from them. Frank from Down under
We've just swapped from an inflatable to Tinnie, love the tinnie tender! We have the new props onboard, looking forward to getting them on and seeing the difference between the two types -Cait
Fantastic, I'm always a bit nervous when spending that amount of money but we have received so much positive feedback it gives us alot of confidence in our decision. -sam
great video, i think you will have trouble beating propspeed for value, I hauled mine two years after applicatyion for antifoul and intended to redo the prop as well, the propspeed was still integral and had no hard growth at all. a wipe with a micr5ofibre cloth got rid of the algae and I'll recheck it at the next haulout in 2025.
Wow that is a fantastic result! I have found a product called prop one that is very similar and works on the same principle as propspeed but they claim to be better. I am going to try them out. They are also %35 cheaper. I'll let you know how it all goes. -sam
Good choice, that's what we chose for our Oceanvolt cat as well. I am so impressed with the machining of these! By hydraulic Loctite, you mean 243 I assume? I'll be interested to see if you find anything better than Propspeed for the coating.
Oh perfect! Its always great to get good feed back. On paper these are the best value for money props out there but paper and reality dont always match. There are so many options to coat the props with but i havnt been able to beat the longevity of propspeed on a regularly used vessel. What I have found is a similar product that is a bit over 35% cheaper. The formula is similar but with a huge cost saving so I am going to try it. They claim to be better than prop speed. I will apply it in the next week or so and hope to fit the props within the month. I also get hauled out in April for a refit so I'll be able to have a good look then and see how it's all going. With regards to the locktite I have used 569 in the past. I have found that with softer metals it is easier as all you have to do is break the hold and it comes out with ease and is OK to be submerged. -sam
Thanks for heads up on the 569, I've never used that so will check it out. Hydrive strongly recommend 243 on their hydraulic systems, with copper tubing and brass compression flare fittings when they may need to be undone.
Well another person has also commented saying that they use 243 and that the Volvo props have a product that is twice the price but the same as 243 so I think I should look closer at that one aswell. -sam
Hahaha yes we were amazed aswell. The website said 3 days but we didn't believe it! It caught me off guard as I hadn't organised my coatings for it. -sam
Haha no I don't know,if flexofold gives tours. We brought our props directly from the factory in Denmark so I guess you would have to go there to get the tour. I imagine it would be super interesting and if you find out it's possible please let me know. I would love something like that. -sam
Hi Sam, I think you made the right choice with your flexofold props. As per our previous discussion I have Volvo folders which are very similar to the flexfold...I think the Flexofold are perhaps better...time will tell. The debate about power in reverse is a false one. The only time you need reverse is in a maneuvering situation which is likely in a marina. If a yacht needs full reverse while maneuvering then the captain is an idiot. No-one should be doing more than a couple of knots in a marina...ticklover speed is best! I understand your worries about losing a prop....I have done that! Way back in my early days of my 2 new shiny folding volvo props I lost one somewhere around Sark in the Channel Isles. This is not really an issue ( except the cost )until you come to manoeuvre in a marina! I managed to get the boat anchored within the harbour and fitted my 2 blade fixed prop spare by free diving under the boat. After that I have always done as you plan to do...use threadlock on every nut and grub screw. The flexoofold design looks better than the volvo props...I doubt you will have any problems. I use the lighter grade of threadlock which will come undone if you give it some welly...there is another one which needs heat which I would not use. My props are left and right handed which gives me the ability to shove the back end in sort of sideways whichever side I am docking. My one recommendation for you would be to carry a cheap aluminum 2 blade fixed prop if you are worried about your props dropping off...but then they won't if you threadlock everything!
Cheers Chris! I looked at the Volvo props and they looked good and I loved the shape. Statisticly the flexofold should preform better but I found them also to be cheaper that the Volvo. When I asked round I was told by various marine mechanics that the Volvo props are slightly more durable but unfortunately that didn't justify the %25 price difference in my book. I like the idea of having a spare prop. In the past I have always used hydrolic locktite for underwater applications but having said that I do use heat to crack the more stubborn ones. Which locktite have you used in the past that you are very happy with? -sam
I use the 243 or the Volvo threadlock which is probably 243 but twice the price! Watching your video I like the design of your flexofolds better than my volvos. Much bigger anode....volvo has 3 weany little collar anodes. Volvo prop has a crap tab washer that is supposed to stop the main nut unwinding but it's a bit of a s##t design....I like the big grub screw on your flexofold....loctite that in and the prop will never come off! The efficiency debate is total bull stuff. The overriding determinant on fuel consumption for a given speed is how fouled your boat is. A few percentage points here or there won't be measurable because of sea state, fouling, wind direction etc etc. If you have time go slower and your efficiency will go up. Fuel consumption is pretty much proportional to speed squared....the faster you go the more fuel you use per mile! I can make 3 knots on 1 engine at 1200 revs using less than 1 litre per hour....or I can make 9 knots flat out on both engines using probably 9 litres per hour. So I go as slow as I can unless I'm in a hurry!
Thank you for the insight into the Volvo props. I appreciate it as an old work mate of mine who swallowed the anchor about 15 yrs ago and has been a marine mechanic ever since tried to convince me that they were the best option. I completely agree with you with regards to speed. I also like to time the tides and go as slow as practicable to conserve fuel. We were looking into motorboats when we purchased shinninglight. One of the main reasons we didn't end up buying a motorboat was the efficiency on ocean passages. My sister said that it would be a terrible idea as I'm such a tight arse that I'd never put fuel in it and therefore never go anywhere, lol. -sam
No point wasting hard earnt cash! I once did some calcs around how much horsepower I needed to move my my boat. In still water no waves I could get 3 knots on one engine at 1200 rpm. I think the power curve shows this as only 3 hp. This sort of ties in with the fact that some big 14 m cat racers actually paddle their boats when they are be calmed which is allowed under Mocra rules. I was going to mount my 3 hp electric outboard on the transome of my cat to take advantage of the free electricity from my solar panels.... But never got round to it. You can get a 10 hp electric outboard from propulsion... Evo Navy 6...which is also a hydrogenerator. Would be a very interesting experiment. Free propulsion if you have a big solar array!
Hahaha no point wasting hard earned cash is my sentiments exactly! I had considered the outboard idea when I was looking for a cat but as I ended up with a slightly heavier girl I thought that it wouldn't be possible any more. I'll do the calculations myself and look closely at it again. Cheers -sam
I'm not sure if these are the same. I was fly in fly out of airlie when colin worked there so we missed each other and I don't know him. By my research they are the best value for money so there is a good chance colin went for them aswell. -sam
That is true to a point with regards to speed but not bollard pull. I worked on 2 different tugs that had the exact same main engines but one had a static bolard pull of 50 tonne where the other was only 42 tonne. The difference was the 42 tonne bollard pull tug was designed for shallow water operations and only drew 2.4 meters. It had a smaller propeller with reduced surface area and therefore with the exact same horsepower had a %16 reduction in thrust. As our boat is slightly heavier and I would like the ability to punch weather to get myself out of trouble I feel that the increased surface area will make a difference. -sam
Sam, the other consideration with sailing boat and cat props is that you don't want the blade tip too close to the hull. If it's too close you may get a drumming sound induced in the hull which will also induce vibration in your prop shaft which could damage your cutlass bearing. I don't recollect the recommended clearance but I'm sure the vendor will tell you. This can be a problem on cats as the hull form may not provide as much clearance as on a monohull.
@@chrisjones9089 I believe you are correct and my understanding is that you want at least 10% of the diameter for clearance from the hull, so for example at least 2 inches for a 20 inch prop.
The correct clearance isn't quite as simple as a percentage. It depends on diameter, pitch, rpm, underwater arraignments, and displacement. It's a bit of a delicate balance between wear and efficiency. If the clearance is to much you will experience a drop in efficiency due to the loss of the endplate effect but to close and you get excessive wear. I have chosen to go with 2" clearance on a 18" prop as I will be changing the underwater arraignments abaft of the prop early next year. -sam
Interesting comments regarding the Kiwi Props. We went with them on our performance cat because I liked many things about them including the weight which i believe has an affect on the sail drives which are on most cats. I have been disappointed with the thrust forward and have lost quite a bit of motoring power.
Our personal experience with the Kiwi props wasn't all great, we are currently out of the water doing a refit to the boat and the flexofold props will be Intalled and we are looking forward to seeing how they do. We'll follow up with a video on comparing 👍 -Cait
Hey SV Zia! Thank you for watching! We have not done a comparison video yet, we are currently high and dry in the boatyard doing a major refit, and we will hopefully be relaunched by November and we will have the flexofolds on then and can do a comparison once we've sailed with them a bit. We can say that the quality and the tolerances of the flexofold parts are amazing and we are looking forward to getting them on! -Cait
![[All About] Boat Propellers and Prop Walk | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E1dt19C_vxE/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for helping keep our boat afloat. See the 👍 button, please consider pressing it as you would be helping us out more than you know.
We hope to see you again next week ❤
Nice video.
Cheers
nice props! cant wait to see you guys put them on and what the difference will be! excited for you guys!!
Thank you!! We are super stoked and excited to get them on and see what they can do! 😍
💜💜
-Cait
Great info! Thanks!
Thank you so so much Amanda! Greatly appreciated 💜💜
Docking Sam, u park a car darling.🤣 Wow who's a happy boy then!!! They are some very nice props. Well informed, well presented, can't wait to hear the different speeds and manoverability u r getting now. Stay safe, keep smiling🇦🇺😁
Thank you!!! ❤️
You tell him 😆he's always correcting me 😂😂 We are stoked and super excited about putting them on and trying them out! Can't wait!!
💜💜💜
Cait
hey, i park my boat and dock my car lol, potatoes, tomatoes lol ;)
Potatoes Potatoes 🥔 😆
I'm sure since you have done all the research you know that you will get better thrust, better fuel consumption and maybe better sailing speed as well . The only con is you will need to rev the motors a bit to get the props to spin out and engage the water so you can maneuver the boat.( so maybe a little bit more care needed in tight quarters maneuvering). I think you have made a great choice and will wait for your conclusion on speed and fuel consumption etc. Thanks for the video.
Cheers Stephen!
It is quite a big purchase for us so I did do a heap of research so fingers crossed reality matches what I learnt on paper. I have never parked a boat with folding propellers before but if it's a challenging park I always prefer to reverse park as that is where the wheels are. I am hoping that the folding props won't make to much of a difference as I plan to build up momentum in reverse then just throw her round with foward thrust. Time will tell but I'm looking forward to the challenge and love experienceing new things.
-sam
Upcoming vid - Cait's equally expensive purchase to improve life onboard. Bead silicon (or similar) on bump stops to soften slap impact. I'd also be packing the guts with waterproof grease (lube, growth, corrosion). Obviously don't have fixed props available, but be interesting included in the cost vs efficiency comparison, especially sail free-spin drag vs fold. Like for like conditions is tricky tho.
Hahaha Ciat likes your suggestion lol. On paper the fixed props didn't quite match the efficiency. I know on larger ships that CPP (controllable pitch propellers) props are the most efficient. It's all to do with the blade shape with available torque l. I don't understand why fixed pitch could not have the same blade shape as folding and therefore the same thrust? As I didn't want to have to upgrade our gearboxes I didn't look into it to closely l.
-sam
Have been running volvo 3 blade folders, which are similar to flexofold , on my cat for 20 years. There are no bump stops on volvo props ....you get a confident thump when going into gear and there is no sign of wear either on the stainless pivots or the brass blade or hub. I don't think there is any problem here that needs a fix.
Great to hear first hand experience, we have heard good things of Volvo's. we are really thankful to have a lot of comments and suggestions 🙏 we love that the cruising community is all about helping each other 💜💜
-Cait
@@chrisjones9089 Interesting. Hindsight, I guess water pressure alone would act as a dampener, vs similar metal to metal out of water.
However, also consideration of manufacturing quality 20+ years ago, vs today, warranty term, preventative vs crossing fingers
On the flexofold they have Teflon stops which act a dampener.
-sam
Very impressed with the tolerances of the props. Looking forward to seeing the difference
Thank you! So are we, really impressed with them so far and they're not on yet 😃 We are excited to get them on!
-Cait
hiya, i only run a tinnie, hoping to grow into a bigger boat lol, but those feathering props, for me, way too many moving parts that could /can fail so def agree with you to move away from them. Frank from Down under
We've just swapped from an inflatable to Tinnie, love the tinnie tender! We have the new props onboard, looking forward to getting them on and seeing the difference between the two types
-Cait
Flexofold - good choice. Easy to maintain. I a very please with mine ...
Fantastic, I'm always a bit nervous when spending that amount of money but we have received so much positive feedback it gives us alot of confidence in our decision.
-sam
great video, i think you will have trouble beating propspeed for value, I hauled mine two years after applicatyion for antifoul and intended to redo the prop as well, the propspeed was still integral and had no hard growth at all. a wipe with a micr5ofibre cloth got rid of the algae and I'll recheck it at the next haulout in 2025.
Wow that is a fantastic result! I have found a product called prop one that is very similar and works on the same principle as propspeed but they claim to be better. I am going to try them out. They are also %35 cheaper. I'll let you know how it all goes.
-sam
Good choice, that's what we chose for our Oceanvolt cat as well. I am so impressed with the machining of these! By hydraulic Loctite, you mean 243 I assume? I'll be interested to see if you find anything better than Propspeed for the coating.
Oh perfect! Its always great to get good feed back. On paper these are the best value for money props out there but paper and reality dont always match. There are so many options to coat the props with but i havnt been able to beat the longevity of propspeed on a regularly used vessel. What I have found is a similar product that is a bit over 35% cheaper. The formula is similar but with a huge cost saving so I am going to try it. They claim to be better than prop speed. I will apply it in the next week or so and hope to fit the props within the month. I also get hauled out in April for a refit so I'll be able to have a good look then and see how it's all going. With regards to the locktite I have used 569 in the past. I have found that with softer metals it is easier as all you have to do is break the hold and it comes out with ease and is OK to be submerged.
-sam
Thanks for heads up on the 569, I've never used that so will check it out. Hydrive strongly recommend 243 on their hydraulic systems, with copper tubing and brass compression flare fittings when they may need to be undone.
Well another person has also commented saying that they use 243 and that the Volvo props have a product that is twice the price but the same as 243 so I think I should look closer at that one aswell.
-sam
Lightspeed /Propspeed seems to be the most popular on various sailing channels
Mmm lightspeed? I haven't heard of that one. I'll look up the active ingredients when I'm in better reception.
Cheers
-sam
Nice props 🤞🏼 lets hope they deliver.
THANK YOU CLIVE! ❤️ We are super super stoked to have then and looking forward to getting them on 😃
💜💜
-Cait
@@sailingwiththejamess
Impressive shipping efficiency as well. Considering the trouble
We get now just moving stuff across europe.
Hahaha yes we were amazed aswell. The website said 3 days but we didn't believe it! It caught me off guard as I hadn't organised my coatings for it.
-sam
Great informative video. Do you know if Flexifold gives tours? That would be very interesting!
Haha no I don't know,if flexofold gives tours. We brought our props directly from the factory in Denmark so I guess you would have to go there to get the tour. I imagine it would be super interesting and if you find out it's possible please let me know. I would love something like that.
-sam
Hi Sam, I think you made the right choice with your flexofold props. As per our previous discussion I have Volvo folders which are very similar to the flexfold...I think the Flexofold are perhaps better...time will tell.
The debate about power in reverse is a false one. The only time you need reverse is in a maneuvering situation which is likely in a marina. If a yacht needs full reverse while maneuvering then the captain is an idiot. No-one should be doing more than a couple of knots in a marina...ticklover speed is best!
I understand your worries about losing a prop....I have done that! Way back in my early days of my 2 new shiny folding volvo props I lost one somewhere around Sark in the Channel Isles. This is not really an issue ( except the cost )until you come to manoeuvre in a marina! I managed to get the boat anchored within the harbour and fitted my 2 blade fixed prop spare by free diving under the boat. After that I have always done as you plan to do...use threadlock on every nut and grub screw. The flexoofold design looks better than the volvo props...I doubt you will have any problems. I use the lighter grade of threadlock which will come undone if you give it some welly...there is another one which needs heat which I would not use.
My props are left and right handed which gives me the ability to shove the back end in sort of sideways whichever side I am docking.
My one recommendation for you would be to carry a cheap aluminum 2 blade fixed prop if you are worried about your props dropping off...but then they won't if you threadlock everything!
Cheers Chris!
I looked at the Volvo props and they looked good and I loved the shape. Statisticly the flexofold should preform better but I found them also to be cheaper that the Volvo. When I asked round I was told by various marine mechanics that the Volvo props are slightly more durable but unfortunately that didn't justify the %25 price difference in my book. I like the idea of having a spare prop. In the past I have always used hydrolic locktite for underwater applications but having said that I do use heat to crack the more stubborn ones. Which locktite have you used in the past that you are very happy with?
-sam
I use the 243 or the Volvo threadlock which is probably 243 but twice the price!
Watching your video I like the design of your flexofolds better than my volvos. Much bigger anode....volvo has 3 weany little collar anodes. Volvo prop has a crap tab washer that is supposed to stop the main nut unwinding but it's a bit of a s##t design....I like the big grub screw on your flexofold....loctite that in and the prop will never come off!
The efficiency debate is total bull stuff. The overriding determinant on fuel consumption for a given speed is how fouled your boat is. A few percentage points here or there won't be measurable because of sea state, fouling, wind direction etc etc. If you have time go slower and your efficiency will go up. Fuel consumption is pretty much proportional to speed squared....the faster you go the more fuel you use per mile! I can make 3 knots on 1 engine at 1200 revs using less than 1 litre per hour....or I can make 9 knots flat out on both engines using probably 9 litres per hour. So I go as slow as I can unless I'm in a hurry!
Thank you for the insight into the Volvo props. I appreciate it as an old work mate of mine who swallowed the anchor about 15 yrs ago and has been a marine mechanic ever since tried to convince me that they were the best option. I completely agree with you with regards to speed. I also like to time the tides and go as slow as practicable to conserve fuel. We were looking into motorboats when we purchased shinninglight. One of the main reasons we didn't end up buying a motorboat was the efficiency on ocean passages. My sister said that it would be a terrible idea as I'm such a tight arse that I'd never put fuel in it and therefore never go anywhere, lol.
-sam
No point wasting hard earnt cash!
I once did some calcs around how much horsepower I needed to move my my boat. In still water no waves I could get 3 knots on one engine at 1200 rpm. I think the power curve shows this as only 3 hp. This sort of ties in with the fact that some big 14 m cat racers actually paddle their boats when they are be calmed which is allowed under Mocra rules.
I was going to mount my 3 hp electric outboard on the transome of my cat to take advantage of the free electricity from my solar panels.... But never got round to it.
You can get a 10 hp electric outboard from propulsion... Evo Navy 6...which is also a hydrogenerator. Would be a very interesting experiment. Free propulsion if you have a big solar array!
Hahaha no point wasting hard earned cash is my sentiments exactly! I had considered the outboard idea when I was looking for a cat but as I ended up with a slightly heavier girl I thought that it wouldn't be possible any more. I'll do the calculations myself and look closely at it again.
Cheers
-sam
I assume the other advantage of a folder, rather than feathering, is that it should not catch on floating lines when folded.
Yes I have herd that! That is definitely a plus. There are some places that you just don't want to swim. - Sam
Hi Sam Are these props the same as Colin on Parley Revival recently put on? And what anti foul will you use on them?
I'm not sure if these are the same. I was fly in fly out of airlie when colin worked there so we missed each other and I don't know him. By my research they are the best value for money so there is a good chance colin went for them aswell.
-sam
I thought you could swap pitch for diameter and it wouldn't matter about surface area?
That is true to a point with regards to speed but not bollard pull. I worked on 2 different tugs that had the exact same main engines but one had a static bolard pull of 50 tonne where the other was only 42 tonne. The difference was the 42 tonne bollard pull tug was designed for shallow water operations and only drew 2.4 meters. It had a smaller propeller with reduced surface area and therefore with the exact same horsepower had a %16 reduction in thrust. As our boat is slightly heavier and I would like the ability to punch weather to get myself out of trouble I feel that the increased surface area will make a difference.
-sam
Sam, the other consideration with sailing boat and cat props is that you don't want the blade tip too close to the hull. If it's too close you may get a drumming sound induced in the hull which will also induce vibration in your prop shaft which could damage your cutlass bearing. I don't recollect the recommended clearance but I'm sure the vendor will tell you. This can be a problem on cats as the hull form may not provide as much clearance as on a monohull.
@@chrisjones9089 I believe you are correct and my understanding is that you want at least 10% of the diameter for clearance from the hull, so for example at least 2 inches for a 20 inch prop.
The correct clearance isn't quite as simple as a percentage. It depends on diameter, pitch, rpm, underwater arraignments, and displacement. It's a bit of a delicate balance between wear and efficiency. If the clearance is to much you will experience a drop in efficiency due to the loss of the endplate effect but to close and you get excessive wear. I have chosen to go with 2" clearance on a 18" prop as I will be changing the underwater arraignments abaft of the prop early next year.
-sam
Interesting comments regarding the Kiwi Props. We went with them on our performance cat because I liked many things about them including the weight which i believe has an affect on the sail drives which are on most cats. I have been disappointed with the thrust forward and have lost quite a bit of motoring power.
Our personal experience with the Kiwi props wasn't all great, we are currently out of the water doing a refit to the boat and the flexofold props will be Intalled and we are looking forward to seeing how they do. We'll follow up with a video on comparing 👍
-Cait
We are in a very similar situation with the Kiwi Props as well right now. What episode is the comparative analysis ?
Hey SV Zia!
Thank you for watching!
We have not done a comparison video yet, we are currently high and dry in the boatyard doing a major refit, and we will hopefully be relaunched by November and we will have the flexofolds on then and can do a comparison once we've sailed with them a bit.
We can say that the quality and the tolerances of the flexofold parts are amazing and we are looking forward to getting them on!
-Cait