The score: Ken, 1, Future drone pilots at that site cuz his buddy couldn't clam up, -1000. I don't argue with the local PD when this happens to me and my buddies. I've packed it up and lived to fly another day, at the same site and different officers have come over and share with me how much they've enjoyed watching those of us that come to fly our drones and other RC flying machines.
@@PhotoBob I'm glad that Ken calmly explained to the officer rules regarding the airspace and that the officer also called his lieutenant to make sure he was right instead of simply kicking them out or arresting Ken and Keith. These excessive, draconian local ordinances that district both commercial and recreational flyers, which are popping up everywhere, are ridiculous. It's crazy to think that kids can't fly a drone in most Nashville/Davidson County parks. I will say that, even by Keith's own account, it seems like the cop wasn't bad at all and was just doing his job. Keith kept cutting him off, which is gonna rub anyone the wrong way. I get extremely frustrated with these kinds of excessive anti-drone laws, but we can take the Ken approach and educate cops as we challenge these new laws in court and via our reps.
It's not confusing. Property can dictate where you can take off and land. Once your in the air, it's only the FAA that has authority. It's not that complicated...... I'm a licensed commercial drone pilot.
Well, not quite. DJI with their Geo Fencing can also limit where you fly and how high (their self-generated altitude zones) you fly if you are in FAA controlled airspace even if you have LAANC authorization to fly at a higher grid altitude than DJI’s imposed altitude zone limit. What is the basis for their involvement in the control of U.S. controlled airspace???
😂 why did you put “I’m a licensed commercial drone pilot? 😅 I must be the ONLY one who doesn’t sound like a bloody Vegan every time I open my mouth! No one cares, no one asked, it’s utterly irrelevant AND makes you look like a tit mate!
@@kenb6565 my understanding though is that in the US, airspace begins immediately above the ground or any structures present though. So technically if you were to hand-launch, that would be from within airspace, not directly from the property.
@@dennymontgomery9716 Yes but, DJI limits you because the FAA tells them too. Still the FAA. DJI is only acting at our managers because they built the drone/remote. It is for our convenience and quite honestly keeps us out of trouble.
Some days I'm a Keith, some days I'm a Ken... I wish you both the best. Thanks Keith for defending your rights. Ken, thanks for defending your rights. I wish things could go better, but I fully anticipate this will be the norm. Keith... I have your anger. I know your pain. I get the same exact way. People like you and me need to learn to make "let it go" a road that's easier to take. It's hard for me to forgive and forget and move on... but I know I need to.
Let it go lol. You mean like the cop that said over and over again like 7 times how "some people make things hard" while motioning towards Keith 😂 and then actually has the audacity to complain about how long this took 😂😂 he literally could've walked away 5 mins ago. Fck pigs
Ken is the ‘Drone Diplomat’. As an aviation spotter/photographer, we too have had run-ins with Law Enforcement (especially after 9/11), however too many hot headed militant spotters relished the idea in getting into a verbal war of words (like this guy seemingly wanted to) with the local officials, resulting in some cases, banishment from airports an airfields. We may be in the right according to the local ordinances and laws, but arguing with a cop over such things is a waste of time, move on and return another day. Experience has taught me that one cop that is on a power trip, is not always the norm, he may be there one day and the next, a cop who is absolutely fine with what you are doing.
Same dude I do aviation photography I have been confronted by officers but they were super chill but they did tell me that I needed to call ops at the airport I was spotting at.
This Cop has the “you don’t agree with me, therefore you’re not listening” attitude!!! He also has “Lastworditous” and is unwilling to let anyone leave without them knowing how “Right” he is!!!
most are low IQ tyrants, and they are oblivious. However, you can get an easy settlement if you ask the right questions before they step on your rights. IDs are like crake to them, unless you are an illegal, then they will not arrest you even for murder.... case in point, Colorado.
The sign at the end "PRICELESS"........ As an avid operator/business owner, I admire your hard work and dedication to clarifying the issues that we face daily. Keep the videos coming.
Unfortunately this going to be a hot mess for while. What needs to happen is local officials need to get with someone who affiliated with the FAA before they write laws about drone and what they can and cannot do so there won’t be this confusion going on. The language in the ordinance looks like someone was putting together something after they got complaints from people. People use drones for recreational, videography footage and real estate business etc.. Thank you Ken for being a middle person for everyone involved 😊
What are you talking about, it’s very clear where you can and can’t fly drones, he showed the law and it’s not confusing at all, except for the 2 dummy’s
Tampa PD tried the same shit with me and ultimately backed off after the county showed up. Always tip your your local park attendants never know when the hush money will come through.
Keith, my grandfather once told me;"Sonny Boy, don't ever miss the perfect moment to shut up!" Nice job, Ken. You kept yourself from being a bail bondsman !
The Ole saying is don't go away mad, just go away 🤬. I'm glad nobody got hurt, other than your felling Keith hang in there My friend an Ken. Keep on flying
I think the miscommunication was you can’t fly your drone in the park. Officer meant you can’t take off or land in park per local ordinance and Keith was like I can fly because I’m following FAA regulations.
I've had this very problem with a town near me. They wanted to ban drones flying inside the city limits period. Several of us commercial pilots that work this area went to the town board meeting and spoke about it and instructed them about case law regarding the airspace and what authority they had. Also, that there are legitimate uses of the space around the parks etc that needs to have a work around in their rules. Filming events for TV etc. They listened and a couple of weeks later after consulting with the towns attorney, they started a registration program for professional pilots that gives us the right to fly on their town property. It is a free registration and we have to do it every couple of years and Parks and Rec keeps it on file. So, we met in the middle and found a solution. Maybe this is a conversation that needs to be had in Nashville. Flying in other cities for Public Television etc in a busy public area I usually drop by the police department and tell them what I am up to before I go fly. The simple fact that I did that seems to go a long way. Heck, they even come out sometimes to block the crowd or a street for me to keep the public back. But Ken is right. Don't argue with them. Even if they are wrong. De-escalate it and handle it later through other means. Good job keeping him out of the bracelets Ken :)
Supreme court cases help the hobby as well. So at some point we may have to start getting tickets to get court dates to get a supreme court ruling that forces either the FAA or local government to make changes.
De-escalation is paramount. Cops will be vindictive and you are completely at their mercy, as shitty as it is. Just do whatever you can to get out of the situation. Live another day.
Yeah they can regulate land-use but they're not supposed to create airspace regulations because that would conflict with the FAA. Some states have laws that prohibit cities from creating drone ordinances. in that situation I'm not sure if the city's can still ban takeoff and landing because that would conflict with the state law.
makes no sense, why have it on the books at all if all you have to do is walk across the street to fly the exact same airspace where you "cant land or take off." It really matters not where you take off or land as long as you're safe and not doing it in a crowd or something stupid.
@@headlight4141 They would have airspace regulated, but they can't. So, they regulate up to the point, where they can get away with it. The government, federal, state, and usually local, will always take as much as they can get away with.
@@headlight4141 it’s the take off and landing. I don’t have the figures, but I’d estimate a few hundred thousand a year are killed by drones taking off and landing in parks. It makes perfect sense. 😂
I luckily live in Michigan and there is a State law that backs up the drone pilots. I carry a copy to cite it precisely to an officer. So far I'm lucky and the cops have been cool and understanding. Most see them during search and rescues.
Please fix your weather. I'm a Florida inmate but I'm too old to handle that white stuff. No. not that white stuff. The other white stuff. On the ground. Whaatsitcalled?
@@petem.3719 I'm getting too old to handle the white stuff too but you learn to adapt...spend the winter flying tiny whoops indoors and building/fixing my larger RC stuff in preparation for the decent flying weather.
I speak for everyone when I say all we ask for is people in position of power like police, to actually know what they are talking about. not saying I know more than them, but when they come barking orders like "you absolutely can not fly that here" then I shouldn't have to question you or feel like im being robbed of my enjoyment for the day. and I have to give Keith a solid salute and tip my hat to him for not simping immediately because a cop told you what you must do. great job Keith
Partner I love your tone you knew you were right, and you were willing to stand on them, regardless of what the tyrannical officer wanted, or was saying..
He's not wrong there are a lot of officers that are aggressive right out of the gate so in turn our human instinct kicks into self defense mode. This garbage needs to be stopped!
Cops do this on purpose as a manipulation tactic. If they can put you on the defensive, they can get what they want out of you before you have time to think and realize that talking to them is not in your best interest.
@@Zeaicliesdemanding ID without RAS of a crime (he had to call a supervisor to check on the ordinance so he did not meet the standard of RAS until after he demanded ID)
This isn't "making it easier or safer" for pilots. This is causing more confrontation than there needs to be. I believe only FAA should be approaching a pilot and making laws that govern them but not without the pilots input and opinions being represented in the best interest. Leaving it to the police is going to cause way more hostility than is necessary. Making it all the easier for them to generate reasons to ban the hobby via "bad encounters" which are usually just encounters where someone is either ill-informed or misinformed or just plain mistaken. Albeit deputy or civilian.
@highrider9168 - agree with you, up to having "the FAA make the laws that govern" ..... Congress gets that duty. A big problem is that the industry moves at lightning speed and Congress and the Feds move at a snails pace.
Yeah, we can't have a completely different set of laws for every single jurisdiction. Even every state having different laws would be ludicrous. Think what driving would be like if the laws were different all over. It's gotta be the FAA and it's gotta be a national set of rules that apply across the country to everyone or it just doesn't make sense. UT has some extremely vaguely worded laws that some businesses use to say you can't fly over their property. Comes down to if you have a room that isn't open to thepublic then the place counts as private. Even though that flies in the face to the reasonable expectation of privacy standards that apply to photography and video. Someone has to make sense of this mess.
@@rcrawford42 no he wasn’t being a idiot ..he was carrying out what he was asked to do.. EVERYONE calls the police to fix what they deem a “problem”.. Ask yourself this.. If you were that Officer.. would you want to deal with this BS?
Ken, good job.. cooler heads prevail …officers are being tasked to deal with “drone” calls now.. even with what little info they have they know it’s a Federal Regulation and not enforceable by them.. but .. local stuff can be.. its a Political hot button… and Officers do NOT like the political game,.. they have enough BS to deal with..
Ken, your friend is a very special breed that I know all too well myself. I have a colleague who, as soon as he thinks he is not being treated quite correctly, immediately ramps it up, gets loud and then can hardly be stopped. Doesn't help at all and in the end he's the loser because the other person can no longer take him seriously and doesn't want to deal with him anymore. That may still work if the other person is unimportant and then goes their own way. However, it fails when it comes to superiors, regulatory authorities or even the police, judges or other privileged persons. In most cases, such behavior goes back to experiences in childhood, e.g. when a child repeatedly has the feeling that it is not getting anything, always only hears "no", always only gets bans. And as an adult you react in a highly dramatic way when you get the feeling that the other person wants to take something away from you, that you think it belongs to you. Which in fact is mostly not the case. But you explode. Such people, no matter how nice they may be, block themselves so much in life and then don't understand why they don't get ahead in so many places. In my experience, most of these people never realize what they are missing out on by their behavior. And never change. Because they don't even realize it themselves. Sometimes a psychologist can help. If you want help. I feel sorry for your friend. Because he seems like a really nice guy. Tragic. And the cop was really cool I thought. Could have been worse.
...you sound just like a servile bootlicker! If it were 1776, you'd be a Tory Loyalist of Mad King George lll. Keith isn't simply upset about THIS single encounter with arrogant, unknowledgeable road pirates. Keith's reaction and consequent actions are from a lifetime of dealing with power tripping, dullards with badges, who can NEVER be wrong, let alone contradicted. Those thin blue line thugs need a nationwide check from We The People. Abolish police unions and end qualified immunity...NOW! “Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.”
Great breakdown of the scenario, his somewhat crippled ego hasn’t fully developed into adulthood. I try my best not to be like him in life, but have all the sympathy for him as well
I'm on the side of us drone owners but isn't it OK if they limit takeoff and landing within their parks? I don't like it but isn't it legal for them to do so? We have those same rules here so I've never visited the parks because of not knowing where to take off and land from.
It seems to defy the purpose of a park. Why not ban eating a picnic in a park? Ban kids in a park? You can do it, but it seems pretty arbitrary. Normally public funds should go towards providing the most value to the most amount of people.
I commented "It's not often that Ken is the calmest dude at the scene of a conflict LOL" but then I deleted it. it's funny now I see that I'm not the only one thinking the same thing.
@@shroompicn-shrooman exactly... That's why we have to continue to push for proper regulation, it's new territory with vague language that has a LOT of those same "What ifs".
Keith my grandpa always told "The more you stir in shit the more it stinks" ... Take it from someone who has had many interactions with the police in my younger years, in the moment "The Police Are Always Right"!! I wish I could've seen the initial interaction 😂.. Ken does a great job staying Kool, you're usually the one in the hot seat lol. Awesome vid guys.
Good job Ken.. Even though I am a Part 107 pilot.. I tend to be a wallflower in public situations like this.. Not real comfortable with confrontation.. It is one hell of a confusing, and conflicted situation when the locals set their own rules, and are not even aware of FAA regulations at all.. I do not like how this is going in our US of A... Anyway I do have to say the Police officer showed remarkable restraint in this situation ...
I fully get keiths frustration & appreciate his reaction. Having dealt with LEOs for many, many years the current environment is more confrontational than ever before. Deescalation is a lost art with many departments & this video is great illustration.
He was better off moving on instead of doing what he did.. He made it worse on himself. Wont be any freedom loving when the strong arm of the law bending you over when he could have been like ok i'm right you're wrong and go find more information and letting the proper people know.
@@jimquinn6433 Why the cop was wrong and was bullying the man because he has a badge? Ken was admonishing his friend who was standing up for what was right? You disagree based on what?
@@deanooooooo6496 and you are delusional. Either you are not taking your meds, or you took too many. Like all frauditors, you lack the ability of reading comprehension and you probaby have not even read up on the drone regulations. You just go by what the voices in your head say.
It is idiots like Keith that lead the government to make these stupid regulations. People need to use common sense. Frauditors/Sovcidiots/Moors are just too stupid to know they are stupid because they all drink the same koolaid and try to imitate each other for clicks and views. I bet Keith says he was not flying, he is travelling.
Keith was right to assert his position...cops need to stop pushing citizens around....remember they are the professionals and they are the ones who get paid to take crap from citizens. They have to maintain their emotions and all that. Keith is a straight shooter and i respect that. The other guy was acting like he was reasonable, but all he did was allow the police continue to treat people like crap. So, Keith is right!
Had you been a few minutes later, you would’ve been recording Keith convulsing on the ground as the police use their little “sparkies“ to subdue him. That would’ve greatly increased your viewership. 😜. Thank you Ken for being a good friend and helping to de-escalate the situation.
Yeah, it's hard to tell who actually escalated the situation as we didn't see the initial encounter. But yeah Keith didn't want to hear anything... Not even from Ken, so...
@@ugpfpv361 obviously when a cop asks for ID with no real reason..and then hovers around like you are in dentention..then its obvious to figure where the escalation is
Seems like the officer was being polite to me. The debate between local and federal is still on going. If a local municipality or State has a drone law or ordinance on the books, an officer can cite or arrest based on that ordinance and you would need to fight that in court. The FAA has stated that local municipalities can regulate where you launch and land but not where you fly. If you appear to be in violation of that launching/landing law or ordinance, the officer has the right to ask for your identification. Some advice from someone who is an officer and also runs a public safety drone program here... 1. Be polite even if the cop is grumpy. (In other words, always be the bigger person in the encounter) 2. Ask for the specific code or ordinance (Some places don't know they cannot regulate where you fly and simply say no flying without mentioning what they can control which is launch and land locations). Don't just ask if there is one, ask them for the specific law or ordinance number. 3. Consider asking if you can speak with a 107 pilot officer if that agency has some. Many do and that number is growing fast. My agency will have about 35 by this July. We have over 20 right now. 4. Truthfully most officer would rather not cite you, so, be civil. The more you push the issue, the more places might magically becomes no launch/land zones. Cities do listen to officers on ordinance suggestions. 5. Ask where you can launch and land from. 6. The vast majority of officers have body worn camera (BWC) that records our encounters in every interaction. If they officer is rude, speak to a supervisor or IA department, but make sure you are not confused on an ordinance or local law or when an officer has the right to identify you, like Ken's friend was here. 7. The road side, parking lot or other similar location is not a court and not the place to argue your case. So, if you really want to fight the Federal/State disconnect over a lawful place to fly, take your citation and try to fight it as high through the courts as you can. Without a Supreme Court case ruling that says no local or state municipality can regulate ANY activity related to a UAS operations, you are stuck with the fact that launching and landing can be a violation. *Deputy dog was not reaching for his Taser, he was turning the volume on his radio or switching channels (mine is in the same spot). He certainly was not too stressed while holding his drink, trust me. Just this past weekend I was flying overwatch for a large parade. I saw another drone pilot and I watched to make sure he didn't fly over crowds since it was clear he could not qualify for a waiver in any category 1-4 based on what he was flying. He did everything right. He stayed back away from people, did not violate any FAA rules and I actually went up and thanked him for doing things right. So, yes, you might be surprised at how many officers are also part 107 pilots and do know the laws. Five years ago, there were very few, now, that number is rapidly expanding. So, maybe I am bias here, but I am also a drone fan who flies for public safety and fun, but to me, the encounter was escalated by Ken's friend and the officer was being polite and professional (At least from what I see and hear in the video, maybe Ken can GRAMA Request the BWC and we can see how the first part of the encounter went. I suspect that the first part was similar to the second part). Also, "flying machine" is not confusing if you ask me. That clearly means a drone or RC plane and is just lawyers trying to cover drones and anything similar to them. If you asked 100 people if a drone qualifies as a flying machine, I would wager that 90+ would say they agree with that wording. Personally, they should have just said drone or unmanned aircraft. On a side note, if you don't want your DJI drones to become a paper weight (EVERYONE not just government), you may want to reach out to your representative and speak out against S.3563 - Countering CCP Drones Act. Seriously, this is an issue......big issue!
@@rcrawford42 You are missing the point of the video. Ken explains it. Airspace = Federal under FAA. The ground = local, not FAA. The states and municipalities can regulate where you launch and land, but not where you "fly". So, if Nashville does not have an ordinance saying you cannot launch from a sidewalk, Ken and his friend could walk out to the sidewalk and launch their drone, then conduct the same "flight" essentially and the officer cannot enforce that launching/landing or the flying if that makes sense. There may be blocking sidewalk ordinances, but I don't know about that city. The police cannot enforce where you "fly" only where you launch or land IF there is a law stating that. (No Ken, we cannot go to Kinkos and print a law, it has to be passed, but that was funny) For example, I have a private park in my City. They have a rule against "flying" a drone. I have told them that they cannot enforce where people fly only the FAA regulates that. They didn't care and didn't change anything, which I am fine with because it would be a good place to fly. Now, if that park was a city park and we had a launch/land restriction, you would be in violation of that law if you "launched or landed" IN that park not for "flying," that is not an element of the ordinance. Ken also pointed out an emergency exception, which is true. Honestly, the best thing for the drone community to do is get connected with their local representatives and help educate them on the usefulness, safety and fun that drones are. There are many misconceptions about drones and working with your representatives is huge. Also, be a good representative of the drone world yourself. Understand that police do not control the airspace but can regulate the ground. Many officers and pilots will not know or understand this, so being polite helps. Where I work, other officers reach out to our drone team members with questions. Many people call the cops about drones, but it is getting less common fortunately. Many drone pilots don't get their Trust Cert, a 107 or register their drones. They also dive bomb crowds without waivers and fly around structure fires and emergency situations where we need to land life flight, exceed ceiling restrictions, fly out of line of sight etc. So, there are good and bad actors on both side of the cop/drone show down. Moral of the story, let's all be nice to each other :)
@@joshashdown4431 OK, but taking off from the sidewalk = AOK but from the park = legal trouble. The problem is that both are public areas so this is really getting to hairsplitting. That being said, Keith was being a horse's patootie, never advisable to be that way to anyone. I don't think there should be a Trust Cert, 107 or drone registration. It's making the vast majority of us who aren't doing dangerous things with drones jump through hoops instead of throwing the book at those who do behave dangerously. That 107 is the FAA lining its pocket on top of all the other taxes and fees we already pay, and for those of us who don't live in a major metro area we have to drive several hours to get to a place that offers the test.
Thank you for showing us what police do every day. Cop was pretty chill compared to the militarized FL police here. Stay safe guys Ken did well deescalating
I love the 99% concentrated dad joke energy you exude in all your videos. Im a big fan of your channel. Been watching since i first got into the hobby like 6 years ago
Educating a law officer on what you say the law is will never work. They are not trained to be convinced that their knowledge of the law is incorrect. “Tell it to the judge.”
But unfortunately a lot of cops aren't familiar with drone laws, so it's like talking to a brick wall. I was flying a year or so ago, and a cop stopped to see what we were up to. Luckily he was a nice guy, and actually said to us that he wasn't sure what the drone laws were at the time. He actually hung around and asked us questions. We weren't confrontational, and neither was he, so we got lucky.
Alright, so this started around five to six minutes prior to Ken arriving and things were already going south to the point where I turned on my camera, I had it set up for when Ken arrived not for anything like this. The officers attitude changed when the camera got turned on. Prior to that he was doing his job, just not very well. I did instruct, when he approached that he would need to allow me to land my aircraft and after that I would be more than happy to talk to him. So, I landed and then we started getting into it. Right off the bat it was give your ID, for an ordinance violation don't think so. So, I gave him my Part 107, which as I told him was good enough. Was not a fan. That's when the second officer who never said anything at all arrived. No where in my approval said I couldn't take off and land there. I travel all over Tennessee and Kentucky flying commercially/recreationally and really just don't have the time to check every single place I go for City Ordinances. Who does! I agreed that they may under some land use issue be able to dictate whether I could launch or land even prior to Ken showing up. The sticking point and the reason for calling it in, was I made it clear I could fly from off the property. The issue is maintaining Line of Sight and really makes such a flight unsafe, more so than it would need to be. Just really glad Ken arrived when he did. as he's the people person. Me not so much, those who know me, know I give back what I receive, if your polite, I'm polite, if you're not neither am I. Thats something I'm working on as a person, not much else I can do. I wouldn't have been in such a state, if it was the friendly nice conversation, it should have been, and he claimed. So, that's what you missed, and that's all I have to say on this other than I won't be taking to many jobs in Nashville anymore even if they are well paying or going there to fly recreationally. Sad as it is a wonderful city with so much to offer and I do enjoy Nashville immensely. Since they've become so anti-drone, then I guess it's time to be anti-Nashville.
Always start recording as soon as you start getting your gear out. Or even better, get a body cam and start it as soon as you get there and then start a dedicated 360 camera as soon as you get out of your vehicle. Everyone can say, "I said this, and you said that." But the film doesn't take sides. Judges will always take the police officer's side, but with video, they will at least have to give you a chance. It can also help out with the FAA. Can be submitted to maybe get them off their butt about clarifying the rules better so this will not keep happening. That is part of the problem, to many different rules that no one can keep up with them all. Even the police office admitted he had to call his LT for clarification.
Their park rules are draconian to say the least. The first page Ken put up makes it illegal for a kid to use a balsa wood glider, sled during the winter, use a coaster wagon, or just plain have fun in a city park.
@@johnmatson3792 I will be from now on, for sure. Every time! This went south so fast. I was polite at first when it was just a nice conversation, what am I saying it was never a nice conversation. I was polite at first though. He came up on me like a bear. I agreed to leave, and not takeoff there, the real issue was he kept saying I couldn't fly over either, that's why I told him to call someone else. I also told him that I was turning the camera on as this was going south and I felt better with my own video, which he replied I'm recording. Just wow!
@@frankmoreau8847 Yeah, sad for anyone wanting to try drone piloting. Just glad Ken showed when he did. As I said I'm only that way when that's what I'm receiving, that and I do have a tone, I guess.
Doesn't matter if you're right, being a dick to cops is never smart. Almost everyone is in violation of some law, and you're asking them to find it. This guy sounds like a little kid. Kinda sad.
Ken, good job at keeping the peace, but I think Keith is correct. If he is willing to go to jail and hash this out in court, then that would be moving the game pieces further in the direction of a win or loss. I respect you Ken as always but I also respect Keith for resisting an unclear law. I'm a former police officer myself and what you said is correct, the police office must listen to all sides to prevent lawsuits to the city and himself, however he will enforce the law because that is his job. Keith, you're the kind of guy that would make those officers go back to the station, break out the books, and study the law closer. That cop really didn't want to arrest you just as much as ken didn't want to be arrested. So a trip to the next city council meeting would probably work better. That would force them to look at the Federal Aviation law. I believe in the end, it would be a win for drone pilots. Good video on how not to get arrested. The best way to fight tyrannical governments is by educating them.
The law in this case says the city has no authority to ban UAS so the officer should enforce those laws. The cop didn't want to arrest because more often recently officers are being held accountable for violating the law.
@@Clickmaster5k You are factually incorrect. At the moment, cities and states are within their rights to designate their parks as no takeoff and no landing zones. It is true that they cannot control the airspace ABOVE the parks, but that was never the issue in this case. The officer was right 100% and arguing with him was not going to change that or get him on your side. A calmer demeanor might have had a better outcome, it may not have, but I guarantee you, calling the cops names is NEVER going to win them over to your side.
Its frustrating when we continue to see our harmless fun rights continually being stripped away. I would understand if the city made that ruling because of a actual incident but sadly its probably due to someone walking there dog who disliked drones that complained to the authorities and had this rule implemented for not taking off or landing on the property. 😢 Nice job being the mediator Ken you handled it the best you could. I also respect Keith for standing his ground as well 👏
No it’s probably because some idiot doesn’t know how to operate a flying machine and it goes into a side window or baby stroller and the blades massacre a baby or causes an accident making a driver run over a baby
Getting approval from FAA to fly is one thing and getting permission from the park/area you want to fly is another story. LAANC just give you permission to fly in that airspace while you still need permission to fly in that area. Sounds weird but you have to understand it.
I'm with you Keith, I'm sick of these tyrants pushing the people around. But I do appreciate Ken de - escalating things, even though that should be the cops job, which he failed miserably.
And you are delusional, the cop tried to tell Keith they could take off and land outside the property and that they were fine flying over the park. The city or whoever made the regulation, not the cop. You just prove that frauditors don't know anything and just like to cause interaction for clicks and views.
"Tyrant"... you people don't know what a tyrant looks like... Tyrants or Communism... that's all you know when a rule or regulation is somehow interfering with your lifes... The rest of them, those you're benefiting from those are alright?!? Strange how that goes... Please keep crying about how you are “oppressed and tyrannized” by “THEM” and how "THEY" ruin everything in MURICA.
Bravo Ken for de escalating the situation. Kieth, being right isn’t always the most important thing. We are a community on the brink. We really need to look as professional as possible when operating in the general public.
I also have a rule. Sometimes when dealing with local authority, there comes a point when you just need to shut up and file a complaint regarding the circumstances. One thing you don't want to happen is to get arrested...Keith needs to chill regardless if he is wrong or right.
As a police officer told me, one NEVER wins on the side of the road, document everything for court, file a complaint later with the muni government if one is really in the right, but in the moment when one is being detained it simply isn't the time.
This is one of the reasons why I rarely ever leave my home anymore. Because the average American has no rights whatsoever when in the public areas of the city town state county whatever. You have almost no rights whatsoever other than what the arbitrary rules allow you.
I completely understand what you're saying, but I'll still risk it to go to Mindfield 4.0 Not to mention the possibility of winni g a wrongful arrest lawsuit...cha-ching$$$😂
Yo basspig, that's exactly how I feel. Maybe if you don't live too far from me, I'll tunnel underground over to your place and we can have a couple beers and plot our next move. Ha
@@aerofart at home, I feel morally justified to use deadly force against agents of tyranny, so I would have no problem using it. But in public, it's a grey area.
@@JimmyJinIA if the law is shot down in court, yes, you might have a payout. However, it is your fellow taxpayers that will be paying, not the person who arrested you wrongly.
Keith was 100% in the wrong with the way he handled it. I've seen people like him way too many times. The "I'm always right and I'll name call and speak over top of the person who is trying to tell me I'm wrong" type of person. Kudos to the cop and you, Ken, for being level headed and resolving it. Keith, you can stick your attitude and drone where the sun doesn't shine. You are the type of person who is making it harder for drone pilots everywhere
@Given119 no what? You think his behavior was justified? I'm talking about Keith here, not Ken. Ken was great. He knew he was right and he also knew arguing with the cop, who was also right, was pointless and could have led to more problems. Also, Keith, acting like as asshole, is not good for the sport or business of drone flying. He has to learn to pick his battles wisely
@@kgrimm86 of course Keith was right. Which is why the police were so offended. People who are in authority and wrong are offended by people with little to no authority correcting them. Besides Keith was right, and so was the officer. The police could have deferred to the Feds authority here. THEY chose not to. Any American with a clue understands authority is simply to be obeyed. They need to be challenged. I guarantee you it was the police who escalated the situation when Keith didn't simply say, sorry, and leave
@Given119 judging by Keith's actions even after the police left I would bet that HE was the one who escalated it, not the police. That's evidenced even more so by the fact that Ken was able to de-escalate the whole encounter by being calm and loud mouthed Keith even continued to ramp it up when Ken was telling him to calm down and just be quiet. If you can't see that then I'm guessing you are as bad as he is and continuing this conversation pointless
@@kgrimm86 I listen and watch. The police officers were ready to go hands on, because Keith rightly challenged their authority to remove him. If you can't see that, you're right, carry on.
Absolutely loved this video. Couple things I’d like to point out. Kieth is AWESOME! You are awesome as well. Please stop calling the “the authorities!” Nobody has authority over a free people. I would love to review this video as well if that’s okay with you Ken.
Honor the rights and laws, not the feelings of local officials. That is his job. Their ego gets in the way. Thanks for sticking up for the pilots not unlawful directives.
These situations can be sticky. I have found it easier to just coordinate ahead of time with the Park’s Administrator. Sometimes they might want to be listed on the insurance policy ($17) but a written letter from the Parks Administrator goes a long way. You would be surprised how easy it is and and most local governments are thrilled to work with you
This is why Illinois has preemptive drone law. Only the state can regulate drone use. And they don't. They leave it to the FAA for the most part. Also, Keith and I probably shouldn't hang out. We'd probably end up in jail.
@Cruz Yes, if they govern a population of 1 million or more, they can restrict drone use. That's one city in the state to my knowledge. 5.5 hours away from me (I'm 3 hours from Nashville Tn.) What happens in Chicago, can stay in Chicago.
I’m a part 107 Pilot, I see this in all parts of the country. Many people forget that the State and Federal Government are separate jurisdictions. The Federal government shall not infringe on a state, county or local municipality to enact, pass, and enforce laws and ordinances. Like Ken said, both are correct, unfortunately Keith was only correct that he could overfly that area. I never once heard the officer disagree that he could not overfly the park, he merely said he couldn’t fly it from where he was currently standing. Ken knows Keith better than anyone and he was politely trying to say he was being a “Richard”. @ Keith you are too “seasoned” of a fellow to be that confrontational. From the outside looking in, you were 100% in the wrong because YOU, as the PIC, are responsible for knowing when and where you can fly… that includes and is THE point where you are remotely launching and operating your drone from. It isn’t on the cops, they were enforcing the municipal code. They didn’t write the code the city of Nashville did. It isn’t the department’s policy, it is the city ordinance. Don’t beat up the cops because you don’t like the city ordinance, go beat up the city council. Get all the Remote Pilots in your area involved, petition for a change to that ordinance. In all fairness, we didn’t see the first part of the interaction, but IMHO you weren’t making yourself look good in this. I was expecting to see a couple cops getting educated on the FAA rules in the CFR, but that wasn’t what I watched. Don’t be a Richard if you are not 100% correct, it makes it difficult for other 107 Pilots down the road. IMHO, like it or leave it.
Cops ego and the 'unlawful order' problem is primary and center as a national controversy. Cops (like this one) deserve the contempt they create. No reasonable person ever said, "It makes no sense to me" why I can't deprive rights under color of law. The Court has avoided clarifying the right of an individual to disobey a police officer's unwarranted order ... "By basing decisions on narrower grounds; the Court has chosen not to come to grips with the fundamental issue of the rights and limitations of disobeying a police order." This is how everyday interactions are escalated by law enforcement who think they are licensed to act without restraint, "while the politically powerless are imprisoned with greater ease and in greater numbers than in any other country in the world."
Ken.. I watch and listen to you all the time. I love you to bits my man, your entertaining, funny, informative and just pure BRILLIANT. A fan from Scotland. UK 👍🏾😀
It’s not always easy to stay calm when you know your rights and the police know theirs, in the end the police will win, like it or not, so it’s best to accept what the police say and follow this matter up later with the relevant authorities. Good work Ken 👍✈️👍
Except the police almost never know theirs. Police responsibilities and my rights will never be in conflict. When they are, my rights are paramount. Not everyone is willing to allow the police to violate their rights, but that does not make it acceptable to just meekly slither away when they go into tyrant mode.
I disagree! Don't ever just accept what the cops say.....if you feel you have a right to do something, exercise that right. Never give in....i applaud Keith for not allowing cops to disrespect him. Part of the reason cops go around hurting, disrespecting and killing people is because they know people are scared of them. I say stand up and question at all times....like Keith did.
Good on you Ken to take the higher ground and defuse the situation on your own. When two parties interpret the law differently that's when a judge decides who's wrong and right (if it goes to court). You're one swell dude Ken and I love your videos.
We have the same problem here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. City bylaws prohibit drones on city property, including public parks. But we are allowed to take off and land from any private property, as long as the owner grants permission (or doesn't care??). Sometimes an abandoned parking lot at a shut down movie theatre (example), is good too. Some people (LOL) think drones are launched to spy on them. They often try to influence city councillors. The struggle is real. Thanks for recording and posting this. It's bang on!
Great video! I hope you can send this to that police station so things go differently in the future. I have experienced similar conversation several times when you’re alone it’s so hard sometimes to maintain composure.
Pretty sick and tired of the comments here bashing Keith. Like every other video of an altercation anyone has ever seen, it rarely is presented in full because generally no one expects it to go south...folks generally only hit record once they feel a line has been crossed...it's pretty clear Keith was visibly shaken as Ken approached and in that state of mind, once your backed into a corner, words don't always come out right. It's rather unfair to say this is all on Keith, and blindly assuming the officer did no wrong to escalate this situation. This should be a learning experience that each officer (who had to call his supervisor because he really didn't 100% know what the rules actually were)...this was a drone interaction, not a bank robbery, a domestic, a running from the police situation...nothing of great concern. If this was a kid with a remote control car the cops wouldn't have batted an eye. This is exactly what we're encountering, and it'd be nice to see you all side with the drone community and pilot instead of the obviously misguided City of Nashville in all their capacities as ordnance creators and enforcers.
Keith should have ceased operations at his location and relocated outside the park, then he could fly over the park from another location. Keith was unnecessarily confrontational. He was a bad ambassador for the drone community.
This was by far the most interesting drone related video I've watch in months. Thank god for Ken. Keith and the Officer were both communicating like knuckle heads. I would have first said yes sir, I'll just pack up and go to another spot for the day. That immediately removes the main element of contention. Then, be conversational, ask what is going on. Is there a specific rule I've broken? Did someone call and complain? When/if I decide to inform them of some of the rules, I will first reiterate that reguardless of what we talk about I will be leaving after our conversation. By politely complying you open up the possibility to educate or even create an advocate out of an adversary if done right. Its fine to stand up for your rights, but you better know exactly what they are, and the best way to do it is without passion. That internal outrage should be experienced later. In the moment you should be clinical and precise like you're playing a chess game for your freedoms/life. This means you should be listening like a lawyer, communicating accurately and calmly and listening trying to understand your opponents position. If an officer is overstepping his bounds, you will be aware of it and can make a dispassionate decision of you want to be arrested. Being hot headed like Keith was is a quick ticket to ego town where two younger guys with guns on their hips and qualified immunity will easily win every time.
Wonderful post. The officer even called his lieutenant to make sure that he was correct about being able to enforce the park restriction (albeit, a really silly and excessive law) and he even told Keith that he could move across to the road and fly from there. This cop may not even be against drones flying in this area, but he is hamstrung by the law and by his job. I appreciate Ken for calmly explaining facts to the two cops because, unfortunately, it's up to all of us in the drone community to educate authorities on our rights in a peaceful and collected manner and to fight excessive anti-drone laws if and when the latter fails.
Just watch your video Ken, and I would just like to give some advice to your viewers. Having been a police officer, I can tell you this. If an officer approaches you and tells you you have to leave, be polite ask them if there is an ordinance about taking off or landing on their property. And then do what the officer asked you to do which is leave. Better to argue in court, then on the street where he will arrest you. Whether he is right or wrong it doesn’t matter, unless you want to spend a night or two in the Graybar hotel! Get a hold of Ryan who will be more than glad to give you his advice on the situation. Link is in the description in this video.
And you perfectly illustrate what is profoundly wrong with cops......they're ignorant, thin-skinned, punks that would gladly arrest you and waste thousands of dollars of taxpayer money for their ego. Glad you're out of policing, you were probably as dumb as the assholes we saw in this video.
I can appreciate both sides, I am a former Police Captain and a licensed commercial multi-engine airplane pilot with a helicopter rating and part 107. I have been operating a fulltime drone and video production company in the Nashville area for 5 years and have never had a problem with MNPD, yet :-) Although Franklin PD were a little uneducated a few years ago and I had to education them tactfully :-)
Keith is 100% wrong. The law is not on his side with this. I'm not defending the law, but local municipalities can dictate what you do on their property. Once you take off outside the park, you can fly over it.
Correct about the take off and landing... but where is this municipal restriction posted? The officer should have been able to indicate where the take off restrictions are posted ? In the park somewhere ? On the city web site?
The officer was originally telling him he couldnt fly over the park either I think thats why he got so worked up. They don't own the airspace, Keith was 100% in his right to park across the street and fly over the park.
@@ImBradCrites if the intent is to prevent certain behavior, yes. Many parks have warnings for, drones, picking up after your pet, where/when to park etc…. If it’s not posted, it’s hard to expect compliance.
F that call them that to their faces and push the issue until they violate your rights and then sue the city so they dont make the mistake again. Works majority of the time.
I literally could not even listen/watch the entire video. Keith needs to shut it down. Keith you were not being nice at all. Did either of you ask for the specific statute that prohibits take off and landing from within the park. LANCC does not track local ordinances concerning take off and land regulations of municipalities.
Really? Like every other video of an altercation anyone has ever seen, it rarely is presented in full because generally no one expects it to go south...folks generally only hit record once they feel a line has been crossed...it's pretty clear Keith was visibly shaken as Ken approached and in that state of mind, once your backed into a corner, words don't always come out right. It's rather unfair to say this is all on Keith, and blindly assuming the officer did no wrong to escalate this situation. This should be a learning experience that each officer (who has to call his supervisor because he really didn't 100% know what the rules actually were)...this was a drone interaction, not a bank robbery, a domestic, a running from the police situation...nothing of great concern. If this was a kid with a remote control car the cops wouldn't have batted an eye.
@@JimmyJinIA I reply in kind, Really? At no point did I say the officer did no wrong. But more importantly neither one of them attempted to find out from the officer if there was a local law prohibiting take off and landing from the park. Even more importantly the officer did appear to have knowledge of these types of laws/regulations by stating it would be fine to still fly there if he took off and landed from another location that was close by. Just because the officer is on the radio with a supervisor does not mean the officer did not know the 'rules'. It does indicate proper procedure. Also as noted LANCC only takes into account FAA clearances not local laws/regulations/ordinances which Keith kept saying gave him the right to fly there. In that he is correct he can fly there.. From my perspective, yes that is my perspective, Keith is normally a very abrasive individual. Even after the incident was over he was always trying to talk over Ken. Keith is the main part of the problem continually talking over people. That will always escalate any situation.
This is what pisses cops off and I understand it, he won't let the cop get a word in and that is disrespectful. Thankfully Ken was there or he probably would have been arrested. Keith need to lean when to shut the F up.
Mr. Ken you have out of this world epiphanic enlightenment. You have truly mastered the grey area in life and I love spectating it 😅 a perfect example of a prime diplomat 😊 you also perfecty calculate the words coming out of your mouth, especially when breaking down people's personalities without insulting them heheh so awesome.
Wow, good for Tennessee. In Nevada, there are only very few recreational/metro parks you can fly. And you cannot take off from any public parking areas.
This is the video I needed. Between this and Laanc Im more confused than ever. How about we have laws for police. If someone is not in danger of life limb or property they should mind their buisness. Oh wait, thats not profitable
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I am equally admiring Keith’s emotional logic ,as I am admiring Ken’s logical emotion.
🤓👍
The score: Ken, 1, Future drone pilots at that site cuz his buddy couldn't clam up, -1000. I don't argue with the local PD when this happens to me and my buddies. I've packed it up and lived to fly another day, at the same site and different officers have come over and share with me how much they've enjoyed watching those of us that come to fly our drones and other RC flying machines.
Beto ELDorkOs like this will always hide behind ISIS Concubine thoughts
Keith was a jackass and these are the ppl that set us back and will get drones banned. The cop was cool as hell
@@PhotoBob I'm glad that Ken calmly explained to the officer rules regarding the airspace and that the officer also called his lieutenant to make sure he was right instead of simply kicking them out or arresting Ken and Keith. These excessive, draconian local ordinances that district both commercial and recreational flyers, which are popping up everywhere, are ridiculous. It's crazy to think that kids can't fly a drone in most Nashville/Davidson County parks. I will say that, even by Keith's own account, it seems like the cop wasn't bad at all and was just doing his job. Keith kept cutting him off, which is gonna rub anyone the wrong way. I get extremely frustrated with these kinds of excessive anti-drone laws, but we can take the Ken approach and educate cops as we challenge these new laws in court and via our reps.
It's not confusing. Property can dictate where you can take off and land. Once your in the air, it's only the FAA that has authority. It's not that complicated...... I'm a licensed commercial drone pilot.
Well, not quite. DJI with their Geo Fencing can also limit where you fly and how high (their self-generated altitude zones) you fly if you are in FAA controlled airspace even if you have LAANC authorization to fly at a higher grid altitude than DJI’s imposed altitude zone limit. What is the basis for their involvement in the control of U.S. controlled airspace???
Yup...not sure why there is any confusion. Faa controls air space. The ground you stand on and take off from, not so much. Seems simple to me.
😂 why did you put “I’m a licensed commercial drone pilot? 😅 I must be the ONLY one who doesn’t sound like a bloody Vegan every time I open my mouth!
No one cares, no one asked, it’s utterly irrelevant AND makes you look like a tit mate!
@@kenb6565 my understanding though is that in the US, airspace begins immediately above the ground or any structures present though. So technically if you were to hand-launch, that would be from within airspace, not directly from the property.
@@dennymontgomery9716 Yes but, DJI limits you because the FAA tells them too. Still the FAA. DJI is only acting at our managers because they built the drone/remote. It is for our convenience and quite honestly keeps us out of trouble.
Thanks for defining and defending our drone rights. 😊
"Just doing their job" is the number one excuse that's going to send many of them to a very dark and hot place
Dark and hot place huh,, haha.. Does jesus fly drones or something ?
Or a camp of some sorts...
Repeatedly interrupting a cop is only going to lead to bad things, whether you're right or wrong.
They will be at your head in and laugh
Freedom of speech he can sue the cop
Some days I'm a Keith, some days I'm a Ken... I wish you both the best. Thanks Keith for defending your rights. Ken, thanks for defending your rights. I wish things could go better, but I fully anticipate this will be the norm. Keith... I have your anger. I know your pain. I get the same exact way. People like you and me need to learn to make "let it go" a road that's easier to take. It's hard for me to forgive and forget and move on... but I know I need to.
Lmfao I feel the same..
Let it go lol.
You mean like the cop that said over and over again like 7 times how "some people make things hard" while motioning towards Keith 😂 and then actually has the audacity to complain about how long this took 😂😂 he literally could've walked away 5 mins ago. Fck pigs
Imagine the insane increase in confrontations like this with remote id
Amen.
thank God for sub 250g drones!
@kenneth9838 sub 250 drone will also need remote ID.
Negative. Sub 250 drones will *not* need RID.
@@GorditoBanditoFPV Please don't spread false information
Ken is the ‘Drone Diplomat’. As an aviation spotter/photographer, we too have had run-ins with Law Enforcement (especially after 9/11), however too many hot headed militant spotters relished the idea in getting into a verbal war of words (like this guy seemingly wanted to) with the local officials, resulting in some cases, banishment from airports an airfields. We may be in the right according to the local ordinances and laws, but arguing with a cop over such things is a waste of time, move on and return another day. Experience has taught me that one cop that is on a power trip, is not always the norm, he may be there one day and the next, a cop who is absolutely fine with what you are doing.
Same dude I do aviation photography I have been confronted by officers but they were super chill but they did tell me that I needed to call ops at the airport I was spotting at.
rights not exercised are rights lost
This Cop has the “you don’t agree with me, therefore you’re not listening” attitude!!! He also has “Lastworditous” and is unwilling to let anyone leave without them knowing how “Right” he is!!!
most are low IQ tyrants, and they are oblivious. However, you can get an easy settlement if you ask the right questions before they step on your rights. IDs are like crake to them, unless you are an illegal, then they will not arrest you even for murder.... case in point, Colorado.
The sign at the end "PRICELESS"........ As an avid operator/business owner, I admire your hard work and dedication to clarifying the issues that we face daily. Keep the videos coming.
I appreciate that!
Unfortunately this going to be a hot mess for while. What needs to happen is local officials need to get with someone who affiliated with the FAA before they write laws about drone and what they can and cannot do so there won’t be this confusion going on. The language in the ordinance looks like someone was putting together something after they got complaints from people. People use drones for recreational, videography footage and real estate business etc.. Thank you Ken for being a middle person for everyone involved 😊
What are you talking about, it’s very clear where you can and can’t fly drones, he showed the law and it’s not confusing at all, except for the 2 dummy’s
Tampa PD tried the same shit with me and ultimately backed off after the county showed up. Always tip your your local park attendants never know when the hush money will come through.
Keith, my grandfather once told me;"Sonny Boy, don't ever miss the perfect moment to shut up!" Nice job, Ken. You kept yourself from being a bail
bondsman !
I have been a Keith in the past... It took a long time to merge to a Ken.
The Ole saying is don't go away mad, just go away 🤬. I'm glad nobody got hurt, other than your felling Keith hang in there My friend an Ken. Keep on flying
Ken is a boot licker Keith was standing up for his rights
@@joebrown4144 Amen.. Keith was correct.
Great advice I'll take it! 👍
I think the miscommunication was you can’t fly your drone in the park. Officer meant you can’t take off or land in park per local ordinance and Keith was like I can fly because I’m following FAA regulations.
Hard to tell as we didn't see the initial exchange
@@ugpfpv361 based on what we heard i doubt he let the officer explain.
Sometimes a good run is better than a bad stand..
Right or wrong, the decision to pack it up was the right call for the hobby.
I've had this very problem with a town near me. They wanted to ban drones flying inside the city limits period. Several of us commercial pilots that work this area went to the town board meeting and spoke about it and instructed them about case law regarding the airspace and what authority they had. Also, that there are legitimate uses of the space around the parks etc that needs to have a work around in their rules. Filming events for TV etc. They listened and a couple of weeks later after consulting with the towns attorney, they started a registration program for professional pilots that gives us the right to fly on their town property. It is a free registration and we have to do it every couple of years and Parks and Rec keeps it on file. So, we met in the middle and found a solution. Maybe this is a conversation that needs to be had in Nashville. Flying in other cities for Public Television etc in a busy public area I usually drop by the police department and tell them what I am up to before I go fly. The simple fact that I did that seems to go a long way. Heck, they even come out sometimes to block the crowd or a street for me to keep the public back. But Ken is right. Don't argue with them. Even if they are wrong. De-escalate it and handle it later through other means. Good job keeping him out of the bracelets Ken :)
🤓👍
Supreme court cases help the hobby as well.
So at some point we may have to start getting tickets to get court dates to get a supreme court ruling that forces either the FAA or local government to make changes.
De-escalation is paramount. Cops will be vindictive and you are completely at their mercy, as shitty as it is. Just do whatever you can to get out of the situation. Live another day.
Sounds like you threw the hobbyists to the wolves.
@@KenHeron will taking off from hand count has taking off from the land?
So municipalities can make rules about take off and land in their parks. But they can't stop us from flying over! Thanks for the lesson guys! Cheers!
Yeah they can regulate land-use but they're not supposed to create airspace regulations because that would conflict with the FAA.
Some states have laws that prohibit cities from creating drone ordinances. in that situation I'm not sure if the city's can still ban takeoff and landing because that would conflict with the state law.
makes no sense, why have it on the books at all if all you have to do is walk across the street to fly the exact same airspace where you "cant land or take off." It really matters not where you take off or land as long as you're safe and not doing it in a crowd or something stupid.
@@headlight4141 They would have airspace regulated, but they can't. So, they regulate up to the point, where they can get away with it. The government, federal, state, and usually local, will always take as much as they can get away with.
@@headlight4141 it’s the take off and landing. I don’t have the figures, but I’d estimate a few hundred thousand a year are killed by drones taking off and landing in parks. It makes perfect sense. 😂
@@DMC888 LoL
I luckily live in Michigan and there is a State law that backs up the drone pilots. I carry a copy to cite it precisely to an officer. So far I'm lucky and the cops have been cool and understanding. Most see them during search and rescues.
Same here Michigan proud, i can fly everywhere as long as I’m abiding by FAA rules..
@camilo8cheryl Act 436 of 2016. MCP 259.306 Sec 5 (1) Basically, the FAA regulates UAVs in Michigan. That is the law if you need it.
@@shadowofchaos8932 Thank you, was going to ask what law you were referring to.
Please fix your weather. I'm a Florida inmate but I'm too old to handle that white stuff. No. not that white stuff. The other white stuff. On the ground. Whaatsitcalled?
@@petem.3719 I'm getting too old to handle the white stuff too but you learn to adapt...spend the winter flying tiny whoops indoors and building/fixing my larger RC stuff in preparation for the decent flying weather.
I speak for everyone when I say all we ask for is people in position of power like police, to actually know what they are talking about. not saying I know more than them, but when they come barking orders like "you absolutely can not fly that here" then I shouldn't have to question you or feel like im being robbed of my enjoyment for the day. and I have to give Keith a solid salute and tip my hat to him for not simping immediately because a cop told you what you must do. great job Keith
Partner I love your tone you knew you were right, and you were willing to stand on them, regardless of what the tyrannical officer wanted, or was saying..
He's not wrong there are a lot of officers that are aggressive right out of the gate so in turn our human instinct kicks into self defense mode. This garbage needs to be stopped!
Cops do this on purpose as a manipulation tactic. If they can put you on the defensive, they can get what they want out of you before you have time to think and realize that talking to them is not in your best interest.
How was it aggressive out of the gate?
@@Zeaicliesdemanding ID without RAS of a crime (he had to call a supervisor to check on the ordinance so he did not meet the standard of RAS until after he demanded ID)
@@OpenCarryUSMC
He simply asked for ID no RAS needed to ask for an ID.
@@Zeaiclies That's correct. But there is also no requirement in any state to provide ID without RAS. Denial of ID sets many tyrant officers off.
This isn't "making it easier or safer" for pilots.
This is causing more confrontation than there needs to be.
I believe only FAA should be approaching a pilot and making laws that govern them but not without the pilots input and opinions being represented in the best interest.
Leaving it to the police is going to cause way more hostility than is necessary.
Making it all the easier for them to generate reasons to ban the hobby via "bad encounters" which are usually just encounters where someone is either ill-informed or misinformed or just plain mistaken.
Albeit deputy or civilian.
The cop was being an idiot. "Go play in traffic rather than standing in a parking lot".
@highrider9168 - agree with you, up to having "the FAA make the laws that govern" ..... Congress gets that duty. A big problem is that the industry moves at lightning speed and Congress and the Feds move at a snails pace.
Yeah, we can't have a completely different set of laws for every single jurisdiction. Even every state having different laws would be ludicrous. Think what driving would be like if the laws were different all over. It's gotta be the FAA and it's gotta be a national set of rules that apply across the country to everyone or it just doesn't make sense. UT has some extremely vaguely worded laws that some businesses use to say you can't fly over their property. Comes down to if you have a room that isn't open to thepublic then the place counts as private. Even though that flies in the face to the reasonable expectation of privacy standards that apply to photography and video. Someone has to make sense of this mess.
@@rcrawford42 no he wasn’t being a idiot ..he was carrying out what he was asked to do..
EVERYONE calls the police to fix what they deem a “problem”.. Ask yourself this.. If you were that Officer.. would you want to deal with this BS?
Ken, good job.. cooler heads prevail …officers are being tasked to deal with “drone” calls now.. even with what little info they have they know it’s a Federal Regulation and not enforceable by them.. but .. local stuff can be.. its a Political hot button… and Officers do NOT like the political game,.. they have enough BS to deal with..
In this case I have to side with the officer.
Only because the guy flying the drone won't shut up long enough or listen.
Exactly so.
" i am doing my job" same thing the german soldiers said. This is how it starts one small thing at a time
This is why you just don't be accessible while flying a drone.
Ken, your friend is a very special breed that I know all too well myself. I have a colleague who, as soon as he thinks he is not being treated quite correctly, immediately ramps it up, gets loud and then can hardly be stopped. Doesn't help at all and in the end he's the loser because the other person can no longer take him seriously and doesn't want to deal with him anymore. That may still work if the other person is unimportant and then goes their own way. However, it fails when it comes to superiors, regulatory authorities or even the police, judges or other privileged persons.
In most cases, such behavior goes back to experiences in childhood, e.g. when a child repeatedly has the feeling that it is not getting anything, always only hears "no", always only gets bans. And as an adult you react in a highly dramatic way when you get the feeling that the other person wants to take something away from you, that you think it belongs to you. Which in fact is mostly not the case. But you explode.
Such people, no matter how nice they may be, block themselves so much in life and then don't understand why they don't get ahead in so many places. In my experience, most of these people never realize what they are missing out on by their behavior. And never change. Because they don't even realize it themselves. Sometimes a psychologist can help. If you want help.
I feel sorry for your friend. Because he seems like a really nice guy. Tragic.
And the cop was really cool I thought. Could have been worse.
...you sound just like a servile bootlicker! If it were 1776, you'd be a Tory Loyalist of Mad King George lll.
Keith isn't simply upset about THIS single encounter with arrogant, unknowledgeable road pirates. Keith's reaction and consequent actions are from a lifetime of dealing with power tripping, dullards with badges, who can NEVER be wrong, let alone contradicted.
Those thin blue line thugs need a nationwide check from We The People.
Abolish police unions and end qualified immunity...NOW!
“Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.”
Great breakdown of the scenario, his somewhat crippled ego hasn’t fully developed into adulthood. I try my best not to be like him in life, but have all the sympathy for him as well
I'm on the side of us drone owners but isn't it OK if they limit takeoff and landing within their parks? I don't like it but isn't it legal for them to do so? We have those same rules here so I've never visited the parks because of not knowing where to take off and land from.
It seems to defy the purpose of a park. Why not ban eating a picnic in a park? Ban kids in a park? You can do it, but it seems pretty arbitrary. Normally public funds should go towards providing the most value to the most amount of people.
I've been watching you for years... This is the calmest you've ever handled a confrontation. Atta boy Ken, proud of you keeping a level head!
I commented "It's not often that Ken is the calmest dude at the scene of a conflict LOL" but then I deleted it. it's funny now I see that I'm not the only one thinking the same thing.
☺️👍
@@KenHeronwhat if you took off from outside and walked in with the drone in the air .. walked out to land 😂
Always easier when it's not you! LoL 😂. I can do that too when it's not me under fire.
@@shroompicn-shrooman exactly... That's why we have to continue to push for proper regulation, it's new territory with vague language that has a LOT of those same "What ifs".
Wise words about listening to the cops, and working it out later if you're in the right about the situation.
Kieth is a real American
Keith my grandpa always told "The more you stir in shit the more it stinks" ... Take it from someone who has had many interactions with the police in my younger years, in the moment "The Police Are Always Right"!! I wish I could've seen the initial interaction 😂.. Ken does a great job staying Kool, you're usually the one in the hot seat lol. Awesome vid guys.
Good job Ken.. Even though I am a Part 107 pilot.. I tend to be a wallflower in public situations like this.. Not real comfortable with confrontation.. It is one hell of a confusing, and conflicted situation when the locals set their own rules, and are not even aware of FAA regulations at all.. I do not like how this is going in our US of A... Anyway I do have to say the Police officer showed remarkable restraint in this situation ...
The word "tyrant" never helps in an interaction with law enforcement. Thanks for cooling things off Ken . . .
He’s right though
Does the truth hurt your feelwings?
Keep licking boots.
Criminals hate being called criminals too.
Why would I help a criminal?
I fully get keiths frustration & appreciate his reaction. Having dealt with LEOs for many, many years the current environment is more confrontational than ever before. Deescalation is a lost art with many departments & this video is great illustration.
Tone and the ability to listen are everything. Never overtalk above all. At the same time, it's so tiring to fight 'local yokel' ordinances.
I support Keith as a freedom loving American
He was better off moving on instead of doing what he did.. He made it worse on himself. Wont be any freedom loving when the strong arm of the law bending you over when he could have been like ok i'm right you're wrong and go find more information and letting the proper people know.
They'll be "polite" so long as you comply and "cooperate fully and completely like a good... Person, let's say.
Glad you were there Ken! That could have really been bad....your knowledge is awesome and glad you're able to keep a level head!
Of course, getting wrongfully arrested makes for a great video and lawsuit. So far the law has supported the pilot, not the municipality.
Ken acted like a coward, the cop was a liar and an authoritarian coward.
@@deanooooooo6496 Nope. I disagree on both sides of your statement.
@@jimquinn6433 Why the cop was wrong and was bullying the man because he has a badge? Ken was admonishing his friend who was standing up for what was right? You disagree based on what?
@@deanooooooo6496 and you are delusional. Either you are not taking your meds, or you took too many. Like all frauditors, you lack the ability of reading comprehension and you probaby have not even read up on the drone regulations. You just go by what the voices in your head say.
I'm really getting sick of the government using regulations to control every aspect of our lives.
It is idiots like Keith that lead the government to make these stupid regulations. People need to use common sense. Frauditors/Sovcidiots/Moors are just too stupid to know they are stupid because they all drink the same koolaid and try to imitate each other for clicks and views. I bet Keith says he was not flying, he is travelling.
Keith was right to assert his position...cops need to stop pushing citizens around....remember they are the professionals and they are the ones who get paid to take crap from citizens. They have to maintain their emotions and all that. Keith is a straight shooter and i respect that. The other guy was acting like he was reasonable, but all he did was allow the police continue to treat people like crap. So, Keith is right!
Ken thank you for showing how to handle things with the officer.
Had you been a few minutes later, you would’ve been recording Keith convulsing on the ground as the police use their little “sparkies“ to subdue him. That would’ve greatly increased your viewership. 😜. Thank you Ken for being a good friend and helping to de-escalate the situation.
Thats the cops job not Kens
Keith was right
They keep playing that game and a lot of cops are going to be inside of rubber bags.
Yeah, it's hard to tell who actually escalated the situation as we didn't see the initial encounter. But yeah Keith didn't want to hear anything... Not even from Ken, so...
@@ugpfpv361 obviously when a cop asks for ID with no real reason..and then hovers around like you are in dentention..then its obvious to figure where the escalation is
@@Spazzfrom.1989 wow 7 months
Seems like the officer was being polite to me. The debate between local and federal is still on going. If a local municipality or State has a drone law or ordinance on the books, an officer can cite or arrest based on that ordinance and you would need to fight that in court. The FAA has stated that local municipalities can regulate where you launch and land but not where you fly. If you appear to be in violation of that launching/landing law or ordinance, the officer has the right to ask for your identification.
Some advice from someone who is an officer and also runs a public safety drone program here...
1. Be polite even if the cop is grumpy. (In other words, always be the bigger person in the encounter)
2. Ask for the specific code or ordinance (Some places don't know they cannot regulate where you fly and simply say no flying without mentioning what they can control which is launch and land locations). Don't just ask if there is one, ask them for the specific law or ordinance number.
3. Consider asking if you can speak with a 107 pilot officer if that agency has some. Many do and that number is growing fast. My agency will have about 35 by this July. We have over 20 right now.
4. Truthfully most officer would rather not cite you, so, be civil. The more you push the issue, the more places might magically becomes no launch/land zones. Cities do listen to officers on ordinance suggestions.
5. Ask where you can launch and land from.
6. The vast majority of officers have body worn camera (BWC) that records our encounters in every interaction. If they officer is rude, speak to a supervisor or IA department, but make sure you are not confused on an ordinance or local law or when an officer has the right to identify you, like Ken's friend was here.
7. The road side, parking lot or other similar location is not a court and not the place to argue your case. So, if you really want to fight the Federal/State disconnect over a lawful place to fly, take your citation and try to fight it as high through the courts as you can. Without a Supreme Court case ruling that says no local or state municipality can regulate ANY activity related to a UAS operations, you are stuck with the fact that launching and landing can be a violation.
*Deputy dog was not reaching for his Taser, he was turning the volume on his radio or switching channels (mine is in the same spot). He certainly was not too stressed while holding his drink, trust me.
Just this past weekend I was flying overwatch for a large parade. I saw another drone pilot and I watched to make sure he didn't fly over crowds since it was clear he could not qualify for a waiver in any category 1-4 based on what he was flying. He did everything right. He stayed back away from people, did not violate any FAA rules and I actually went up and thanked him for doing things right. So, yes, you might be surprised at how many officers are also part 107 pilots and do know the laws. Five years ago, there were very few, now, that number is rapidly expanding.
So, maybe I am bias here, but I am also a drone fan who flies for public safety and fun, but to me, the encounter was escalated by Ken's friend and the officer was being polite and professional (At least from what I see and hear in the video, maybe Ken can GRAMA Request the BWC and we can see how the first part of the encounter went. I suspect that the first part was similar to the second part). Also, "flying machine" is not confusing if you ask me. That clearly means a drone or RC plane and is just lawyers trying to cover drones and anything similar to them. If you asked 100 people if a drone qualifies as a flying machine, I would wager that 90+ would say they agree with that wording. Personally, they should have just said drone or unmanned aircraft.
On a side note, if you don't want your DJI drones to become a paper weight (EVERYONE not just government), you may want to reach out to your representative and speak out against S.3563 - Countering CCP Drones Act. Seriously, this is an issue......big issue!
There is no debate between local and federal. It was solved nearly a century ago -- federal rules the airspace.
@@rcrawford42 You are missing the point of the video. Ken explains it. Airspace = Federal under FAA. The ground = local, not FAA. The states and municipalities can regulate where you launch and land, but not where you "fly". So, if Nashville does not have an ordinance saying you cannot launch from a sidewalk, Ken and his friend could walk out to the sidewalk and launch their drone, then conduct the same "flight" essentially and the officer cannot enforce that launching/landing or the flying if that makes sense. There may be blocking sidewalk ordinances, but I don't know about that city. The police cannot enforce where you "fly" only where you launch or land IF there is a law stating that. (No Ken, we cannot go to Kinkos and print a law, it has to be passed, but that was funny) For example, I have a private park in my City. They have a rule against "flying" a drone. I have told them that they cannot enforce where people fly only the FAA regulates that. They didn't care and didn't change anything, which I am fine with because it would be a good place to fly. Now, if that park was a city park and we had a launch/land restriction, you would be in violation of that law if you "launched or landed" IN that park not for "flying," that is not an element of the ordinance. Ken also pointed out an emergency exception, which is true.
Honestly, the best thing for the drone community to do is get connected with their local representatives and help educate them on the usefulness, safety and fun that drones are. There are many misconceptions about drones and working with your representatives is huge. Also, be a good representative of the drone world yourself. Understand that police do not control the airspace but can regulate the ground. Many officers and pilots will not know or understand this, so being polite helps. Where I work, other officers reach out to our drone team members with questions. Many people call the cops about drones, but it is getting less common fortunately. Many drone pilots don't get their Trust Cert, a 107 or register their drones. They also dive bomb crowds without waivers and fly around structure fires and emergency situations where we need to land life flight, exceed ceiling restrictions, fly out of line of sight etc. So, there are good and bad actors on both side of the cop/drone show down. Moral of the story, let's all be nice to each other :)
Very well stated.
Also, thank you for your service!
@@KenHeron Thanks Ken!
@@joshashdown4431 OK, but taking off from the sidewalk = AOK but from the park = legal trouble. The problem is that both are public areas so this is really getting to hairsplitting. That being said, Keith was being a horse's patootie, never advisable to be that way to anyone.
I don't think there should be a Trust Cert, 107 or drone registration. It's making the vast majority of us who aren't doing dangerous things with drones jump through hoops instead of throwing the book at those who do behave dangerously. That 107 is the FAA lining its pocket on top of all the other taxes and fees we already pay, and for those of us who don't live in a major metro area we have to drive several hours to get to a place that offers the test.
Thank you for showing us what police do every day. Cop was pretty chill compared to the militarized FL police here. Stay safe guys Ken did well deescalating
I love the 99% concentrated dad joke energy you exude in all your videos. Im a big fan of your channel. Been watching since i first got into the hobby like 6 years ago
HAA!
Thank you.
Your comment arrived JUSTIN time.
🤓
THIS is why I sold all my drones. Neighbors and cops and the general public have no respect for drone pilot rights.
Absolutely,only if you live in the middle of nowhere you are safe to fly before someone comes knocking your door...
I fly in my house..my back yard...on roofs with 1s whoop...so much fun and no one can say iiiiissssshhhhh!
@@fpvsmurf until they come after you with allegations of peeping drone. That will make you think.
@@aerofart 😖
Educating a law officer on what you say the law is will never work. They are not trained to be convinced that their knowledge of the law is incorrect. “Tell it to the judge.”
But unfortunately a lot of cops aren't familiar with drone laws, so it's like talking to a brick wall. I was flying a year or so ago, and a cop stopped to see what we were up to. Luckily he was a nice guy, and actually said to us that he wasn't sure what the drone laws were at the time. He actually hung around and asked us questions. We weren't confrontational, and neither was he, so we got lucky.
Alright, so this started around five to six minutes prior to Ken arriving and things were already going south to the point where I turned on my camera, I had it set up for when Ken arrived not for anything like this. The officers attitude changed when the camera got turned on. Prior to that he was doing his job, just not very well. I did instruct, when he approached that he would need to allow me to land my aircraft and after that I would be more than happy to talk to him. So, I landed and then we started getting into it. Right off the bat it was give your ID, for an ordinance violation don't think so. So, I gave him my Part 107, which as I told him was good enough. Was not a fan. That's when the second officer who never said anything at all arrived. No where in my approval said I couldn't take off and land there. I travel all over Tennessee and Kentucky flying commercially/recreationally and really just don't have the time to check every single place I go for City Ordinances. Who does! I agreed that they may under some land use issue be able to dictate whether I could launch or land even prior to Ken showing up. The sticking point and the reason for calling it in, was I made it clear I could fly from off the property. The issue is maintaining Line of Sight and really makes such a flight unsafe, more so than it would need to be.
Just really glad Ken arrived when he did. as he's the people person. Me not so much, those who know me, know I give back what I receive, if your polite, I'm polite, if you're not neither am I. Thats something I'm working on as a person, not much else I can do. I wouldn't have been in such a state, if it was the friendly nice conversation, it should have been, and he claimed. So, that's what you missed, and that's all I have to say on this other than I won't be taking to many jobs in Nashville anymore even if they are well paying or going there to fly recreationally. Sad as it is a wonderful city with so much to offer and I do enjoy Nashville immensely. Since they've become so anti-drone, then I guess it's time to be anti-Nashville.
Always start recording as soon as you start getting your gear out. Or even better, get a body cam and start it as soon as you get there and then start a dedicated 360 camera as soon as you get out of your vehicle. Everyone can say, "I said this, and you said that." But the film doesn't take sides. Judges will always take the police officer's side, but with video, they will at least have to give you a chance. It can also help out with the FAA. Can be submitted to maybe get them off their butt about clarifying the rules better so this will not keep happening. That is part of the problem, to many different rules that no one can keep up with them all. Even the police office admitted he had to call his LT for clarification.
Their park rules are draconian to say the least. The first page Ken put up makes it illegal for a kid to use a balsa wood glider, sled during the winter, use a coaster wagon, or just plain have fun in a city park.
@@johnmatson3792 I will be from now on, for sure. Every time! This went south so fast. I was polite at first when it was just a nice conversation, what am I saying it was never a nice conversation. I was polite at first though. He came up on me like a bear. I agreed to leave, and not takeoff there, the real issue was he kept saying I couldn't fly over either, that's why I told him to call someone else. I also told him that I was turning the camera on as this was going south and I felt better with my own video, which he replied I'm recording. Just wow!
@@frankmoreau8847 Yeah, sad for anyone wanting to try drone piloting. Just glad Ken showed when he did. As I said I'm only that way when that's what I'm receiving, that and I do have a tone, I guess.
He was wearing a body camera. Request a copy and post it here for us to see that encounter.
I'm so happy that we have Mr.Heron , who knows the Drone Laws and can Defend us on these Issues .
Doesn't matter if you're right, being a dick to cops is never smart. Almost everyone is in violation of some law, and you're asking them to find it. This guy sounds like a little kid. Kinda sad.
Cops violate more crimes than they enforce.
Ken, good job at keeping the peace, but I think Keith is correct. If he is willing to go to jail and hash this out in court, then that would be moving the game pieces further in the direction of a win or loss. I respect you Ken as always but I also respect Keith for resisting an unclear law. I'm a former police officer myself and what you said is correct, the police office must listen to all sides to prevent lawsuits to the city and himself, however he will enforce the law because that is his job. Keith, you're the kind of guy that would make those officers go back to the station, break out the books, and study the law closer. That cop really didn't want to arrest you just as much as ken didn't want to be arrested. So a trip to the next city council meeting would probably work better. That would force them to look at the Federal Aviation law. I believe in the end, it would be a win for drone pilots. Good video on how not to get arrested. The best way to fight tyrannical governments is by educating them.
Thank you for your service!
The law in this case says the city has no authority to ban UAS so the officer should enforce those laws. The cop didn't want to arrest because more often recently officers are being held accountable for violating the law.
@@Clickmaster5k You are factually incorrect. At the moment, cities and states are within their rights to designate their parks as no takeoff and no landing zones. It is true that they cannot control the airspace ABOVE the parks, but that was never the issue in this case. The officer was right 100% and arguing with him was not going to change that or get him on your side. A calmer demeanor might have had a better outcome, it may not have, but I guarantee you, calling the cops names is NEVER going to win them over to your side.
Ken, you are a solid friend. Sometimes I wish I had a built in mute button for good friends to activate when I’ve clearly gone too far.
Its frustrating when we continue to see our harmless fun rights continually being stripped away. I would understand if the city made that ruling because of a actual incident but sadly its probably due to someone walking there dog who disliked drones that complained to the authorities and had this rule implemented for not taking off or landing on the property. 😢 Nice job being the mediator Ken you handled it the best you could. I also respect Keith for standing his ground as well 👏
They get the idea from Home Owners Associations.
Some pol doesn't want a drone seeing what he does in the bushes at the park.
@@rcrawford42 some crazy people expect privacy in public areas in full view of the public.
Because no one is beating the snot out of Karen.
No it’s probably because some idiot doesn’t know how to operate a flying machine and it goes into a side window or baby stroller and the blades massacre a baby or causes an accident making a driver run over a baby
Well done Ken. The situation was going bad quickly! 🚨😄
Getting approval from FAA to fly is one thing and getting permission from the park/area you want to fly is another story. LAANC just give you permission to fly in that airspace while you still need permission to fly in that area. Sounds weird but you have to understand it.
I would not want to fly in a park with so many people around. Keith is full of.... you know what. 😂Nice one, Ken.👍
I'm with you Keith, I'm sick of these tyrants pushing the people around.
But I do appreciate Ken de - escalating things, even though that should be the cops job, which he failed miserably.
And you are delusional, the cop tried to tell Keith they could take off and land outside the property and that they were fine flying over the park. The city or whoever made the regulation, not the cop. You just prove that frauditors don't know anything and just like to cause interaction for clicks and views.
"Tyrant"... you people don't know what a tyrant looks like...
Tyrants or Communism... that's all you know when a rule or regulation is somehow interfering with your lifes...
The rest of them, those you're benefiting from those are alright?!? Strange how that goes...
Please keep crying about how you are “oppressed and tyrannized” by “THEM” and how "THEY" ruin everything in MURICA.
Bravo Ken for de escalating the situation. Kieth, being right isn’t always the most important thing. We are a community on the brink. We really need to look as professional as possible when operating in the general public.
The man is always holding us down!
I also have a rule. Sometimes when dealing with local authority, there comes a point when you just need to shut up and file a complaint regarding the circumstances. One thing you don't want to happen is to get arrested...Keith needs to chill regardless if he is wrong or right.
As a police officer told me, one NEVER wins on the side of the road, document everything for court, file a complaint later with the muni government if one is really in the right, but in the moment when one is being detained it simply isn't the time.
This is one of the reasons why I rarely ever leave my home anymore. Because the average American has no rights whatsoever when in the public areas of the city town state county whatever. You have almost no rights whatsoever other than what the arbitrary rules allow you.
I completely understand what you're saying, but I'll still risk it to go to Mindfield 4.0
Not to mention the possibility of winni g a wrongful arrest lawsuit...cha-ching$$$😂
Yo basspig, that's exactly how I feel. Maybe if you don't live too far from me, I'll tunnel underground over to your place and we can have a couple beers and plot our next move. Ha
I feel (and do) the same way. Home is the only SAFE SPACE, at least for now.
@@aerofart at home, I feel morally justified to use deadly force against agents of tyranny, so I would have no problem using it. But in public, it's a grey area.
@@JimmyJinIA if the law is shot down in court, yes, you might have a payout. However, it is your fellow taxpayers that will be paying, not the person who arrested you wrongly.
Keith was 100% in the wrong with the way he handled it. I've seen people like him way too many times. The "I'm always right and I'll name call and speak over top of the person who is trying to tell me I'm wrong" type of person. Kudos to the cop and you, Ken, for being level headed and resolving it. Keith, you can stick your attitude and drone where the sun doesn't shine. You are the type of person who is making it harder for drone pilots everywhere
No... Just, no.
@Given119 no what? You think his behavior was justified? I'm talking about Keith here, not Ken. Ken was great. He knew he was right and he also knew arguing with the cop, who was also right, was pointless and could have led to more problems. Also, Keith, acting like as asshole, is not good for the sport or business of drone flying. He has to learn to pick his battles wisely
@@kgrimm86 of course Keith was right. Which is why the police were so offended. People who are in authority and wrong are offended by people with little to no authority correcting them. Besides Keith was right, and so was the officer. The police could have deferred to the Feds authority here. THEY chose not to. Any American with a clue understands authority is simply to be obeyed. They need to be challenged. I guarantee you it was the police who escalated the situation when Keith didn't simply say, sorry, and leave
@Given119 judging by Keith's actions even after the police left I would bet that HE was the one who escalated it, not the police. That's evidenced even more so by the fact that Ken was able to de-escalate the whole encounter by being calm and loud mouthed Keith even continued to ramp it up when Ken was telling him to calm down and just be quiet. If you can't see that then I'm guessing you are as bad as he is and continuing this conversation pointless
@@kgrimm86 I listen and watch. The police officers were ready to go hands on, because Keith rightly challenged their authority to remove him. If you can't see that, you're right, carry on.
Absolutely loved this video. Couple things I’d like to point out. Kieth is AWESOME! You are awesome as well.
Please stop calling the “the authorities!”
Nobody has authority over a free people.
I would love to review this video as well if that’s okay with you Ken.
Honor the rights and laws, not the feelings of local officials. That is his job. Their ego gets in the way. Thanks for sticking up for the pilots not unlawful directives.
These situations can be sticky. I have found it easier to just coordinate ahead of time with the Park’s Administrator. Sometimes they might want to be listed on the insurance policy ($17) but a written letter from the Parks Administrator goes a long way. You would be surprised how easy it is and and most local governments are thrilled to work with you
This is why Illinois has preemptive drone law. Only the state can regulate drone use. And they don't. They leave it to the FAA for the most part. Also, Keith and I probably shouldn't hang out. We'd probably end up in jail.
Chicago?? They don’t like drones in their parks.
@Cruz Yes, if they govern a population of 1 million or more, they can restrict drone use. That's one city in the state to my knowledge. 5.5 hours away from me (I'm 3 hours from Nashville Tn.) What happens in Chicago, can stay in Chicago.
I’m a part 107 Pilot, I see this in all parts of the country. Many people forget that the State and Federal Government are separate jurisdictions. The Federal government shall not infringe on a state, county or local municipality to enact, pass, and enforce laws and ordinances. Like Ken said, both are correct, unfortunately Keith was only correct that he could overfly that area. I never once heard the officer disagree that he could not overfly the park, he merely said he couldn’t fly it from where he was currently standing. Ken knows Keith better than anyone and he was politely trying to say he was being a “Richard”. @ Keith you are too “seasoned” of a fellow to be that confrontational. From the outside looking in, you were 100% in the wrong because YOU, as the PIC, are responsible for knowing when and where you can fly… that includes and is THE point where you are remotely launching and operating your drone from. It isn’t on the cops, they were enforcing the municipal code. They didn’t write the code the city of Nashville did. It isn’t the department’s policy, it is the city ordinance. Don’t beat up the cops because you don’t like the city ordinance, go beat up the city council. Get all the Remote Pilots in your area involved, petition for a change to that ordinance. In all fairness, we didn’t see the first part of the interaction, but IMHO you weren’t making yourself look good in this. I was expecting to see a couple cops getting educated on the FAA rules in the CFR, but that wasn’t what I watched. Don’t be a Richard if you are not 100% correct, it makes it difficult for other 107 Pilots down the road. IMHO, like it or leave it.
Best comment on this so far. It’s up to us pilots to check where we fly beforehand…or risked getting told to take it down
Cops ego and the 'unlawful order' problem is primary and center as a national controversy. Cops (like this one) deserve the contempt they create. No reasonable person ever said, "It makes no sense to me" why I can't deprive rights under color of law. The Court has avoided clarifying the right of an individual to disobey a police officer's unwarranted order ... "By basing decisions on narrower grounds; the Court has chosen not to come to grips with the fundamental issue of the rights and limitations of disobeying a police order." This is how everyday interactions are escalated by law enforcement who think they are licensed to act without restraint, "while the politically powerless are imprisoned with greater ease and in greater numbers than in any other country in the world."
Ken.. I watch and listen to you all the time. I love you to bits my man, your entertaining, funny, informative and just pure BRILLIANT. A fan from Scotland. UK 👍🏾😀
Awesome, thank you!
🏴🤘
Ken the way you handled that situation was pretty cool 😎 thanks for sticking up for the community 👍
It’s not always easy to stay calm when you know your rights and the police know theirs, in the end the police will win, like it or not, so it’s best to accept what the police say and follow this matter up later with the relevant authorities. Good work Ken 👍✈️👍
Perfectly said.
The police will win with the law.
You will win when the police were unlawful.
In the end, someone will win.
Except the police almost never know theirs. Police responsibilities and my rights will never be in conflict. When they are, my rights are paramount. Not everyone is willing to allow the police to violate their rights, but that does not make it acceptable to just meekly slither away when they go into tyrant mode.
I disagree! Don't ever just accept what the cops say.....if you feel you have a right to do something, exercise that right. Never give in....i applaud Keith for not allowing cops to disrespect him. Part of the reason cops go around hurting, disrespecting and killing people is because they know people are scared of them. I say stand up and question at all times....like Keith did.
Too logical for a third!
Good on you Ken to take the higher ground and defuse the situation on your own. When two parties interpret the law differently that's when a judge decides who's wrong and right (if it goes to court). You're one swell dude Ken and I love your videos.
ALWAYS push them to the limit.. good job Keith.
sometimes you get them to mess up too and its a lawsuit for you
We have the same problem here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. City bylaws prohibit drones on city property, including public parks. But we are allowed to take off and land from any private property, as long as the owner grants permission (or doesn't care??). Sometimes an abandoned parking lot at a shut down movie theatre (example), is good too. Some people (LOL) think drones are launched to spy on them. They often try to influence city councillors. The struggle is real. Thanks for recording and posting this. It's bang on!
Great video! I hope you can send this to that police station so things go differently in the future. I have experienced similar conversation several times when you’re alone it’s so hard sometimes to maintain composure.
Pretty sick and tired of the comments here bashing Keith. Like every other video of an altercation anyone has ever seen, it rarely is presented in full because generally no one expects it to go south...folks generally only hit record once they feel a line has been crossed...it's pretty clear Keith was visibly shaken as Ken approached and in that state of mind, once your backed into a corner, words don't always come out right. It's rather unfair to say this is all on Keith, and blindly assuming the officer did no wrong to escalate this situation. This should be a learning experience that each officer (who had to call his supervisor because he really didn't 100% know what the rules actually were)...this was a drone interaction, not a bank robbery, a domestic, a running from the police situation...nothing of great concern. If this was a kid with a remote control car the cops wouldn't have batted an eye.
This is exactly what we're encountering, and it'd be nice to see you all side with the drone community and pilot instead of the obviously misguided City of Nashville in all their capacities as ordnance creators and enforcers.
Mummmm yummy boot leather. Pathetic.
Keith should have ceased operations at his location and relocated outside the park, then he could fly over the park from another location. Keith was unnecessarily confrontational. He was a bad ambassador for the drone community.
Oh Keith Keith Keith...hahaha....you handled it well Ken. Although I understand Keith's frustration. Lol good video boys!
That was extraordinarily entertaining! And that Ending with the City Sign partially blocked and the dialogue…. Icing on the cake!!!😂😂😂
Much appreciated!
"Well that's fine I got my gun too", I love Keith 😂😂😂😂
On a power trip. Running around like Eric Cartman "RESPECT MY AUTHORIT I "
This was by far the most interesting drone related video I've watch in months. Thank god for Ken. Keith and the Officer were both communicating like knuckle heads. I would have first said yes sir, I'll just pack up and go to another spot for the day. That immediately removes the main element of contention. Then, be conversational, ask what is going on. Is there a specific rule I've broken? Did someone call and complain? When/if I decide to inform them of some of the rules, I will first reiterate that reguardless of what we talk about I will be leaving after our conversation. By politely complying you open up the possibility to educate or even create an advocate out of an adversary if done right. Its fine to stand up for your rights, but you better know exactly what they are, and the best way to do it is without passion. That internal outrage should be experienced later. In the moment you should be clinical and precise like you're playing a chess game for your freedoms/life. This means you should be listening like a lawyer, communicating accurately and calmly and listening trying to understand your opponents position. If an officer is overstepping his bounds, you will be aware of it and can make a dispassionate decision of you want to be arrested. Being hot headed like Keith was is a quick ticket to ego town where two younger guys with guns on their hips and qualified immunity will easily win every time.
Great comment
Well put.
Wonderful post. The officer even called his lieutenant to make sure that he was correct about being able to enforce the park restriction (albeit, a really silly and excessive law) and he even told Keith that he could move across to the road and fly from there. This cop may not even be against drones flying in this area, but he is hamstrung by the law and by his job. I appreciate Ken for calmly explaining facts to the two cops because, unfortunately, it's up to all of us in the drone community to educate authorities on our rights in a peaceful and collected manner and to fight excessive anti-drone laws if and when the latter fails.
@@manuelh.personaanima6256you do know they lie for a living right.
"Just take it and the police will leave you alone" ok bootlicker
Just watch your video Ken, and I would just like to give some advice to your viewers. Having been a police officer, I can tell you this. If an officer approaches you and tells you you have to leave, be polite ask them if there is an ordinance about taking off or landing on their property. And then do what the officer asked you to do which is leave. Better to argue in court, then on the street where he will arrest you. Whether he is right or wrong it doesn’t matter, unless you want to spend a night or two in the Graybar hotel! Get a hold of Ryan who will be more than glad to give you his advice on the situation. Link is in the description in this video.
Glad you aren’t in that job anymore mate, utterly thankless and constantly dangerous 😮🤝👍
And you perfectly illustrate what is profoundly wrong with cops......they're ignorant, thin-skinned, punks that would gladly arrest you and waste thousands of dollars of taxpayer money for their ego. Glad you're out of policing, you were probably as dumb as the assholes we saw in this video.
Jail is cake. Educating officers about the Constitution is not.
You saved the day Ken. Could you do an update on remote ID please are there any new modules out that are cheaper than $300 thanks, Ken.
I can appreciate both sides, I am a former Police Captain and a licensed commercial multi-engine airplane pilot with a helicopter rating and part 107. I have been operating a fulltime drone and video production company in the Nashville area for 5 years and have never had a problem with MNPD, yet :-) Although Franklin PD were a little uneducated a few years ago and I had to education them tactfully :-)
Ken, good job on trying to de-escalate the issue.
Keith handled this like it should be handled.
Ken, the moment you're afraid of cops you lost already.
Very informative interaction. Thanks for posting!
Keith is 100% wrong. The law is not on his side with this. I'm not defending the law, but local municipalities can dictate what you do on their property. Once you take off outside the park, you can fly over it.
Correct about the take off and landing... but where is this municipal restriction posted? The officer should have been able to indicate where the take off restrictions are posted ? In the park somewhere ? On the city web site?
The officer was originally telling him he couldnt fly over the park either I think thats why he got so worked up. They don't own the airspace, Keith was 100% in his right to park across the street and fly over the park.
@@ctzerbe1 it doesn't have to be posted. Does every law need to have its own sign? That's preposterous.
@A F fron the recording the officer told him that he had to land it. That is what Keith said. But there were already high emotions when Ken got there.
@@ImBradCrites if the intent is to prevent certain behavior, yes. Many parks have warnings for, drones, picking up after your pet, where/when to park etc…. If it’s not posted, it’s hard to expect compliance.
Calling someone a tyrant never works….better to be courteous and you’d be amazed how it works wonders.
Yeah, cops expect people to kiss their asses or else.
F that call them that to their faces and push the issue until they violate your rights and then sue the city so they dont make the mistake again. Works majority of the time.
I literally could not even listen/watch the entire video. Keith needs to shut it down. Keith you were not being nice at all. Did either of you ask for the specific statute that prohibits take off and landing from within the park. LANCC does not track local ordinances concerning take off and land regulations of municipalities.
Really? Like every other video of an altercation anyone has ever seen, it rarely is presented in full because generally no one expects it to go south...folks generally only hit record once they feel a line has been crossed...it's pretty clear Keith was visibly shaken as Ken approached and in that state of mind, once your backed into a corner, words don't always come out right. It's rather unfair to say this is all on Keith, and blindly assuming the officer did no wrong to escalate this situation. This should be a learning experience that each officer (who has to call his supervisor because he really didn't 100% know what the rules actually were)...this was a drone interaction, not a bank robbery, a domestic, a running from the police situation...nothing of great concern. If this was a kid with a remote control car the cops wouldn't have batted an eye.
@@JimmyJinIA I reply in kind, Really? At no point did I say the officer did no wrong. But more importantly neither one of them attempted to find out from the officer if there was a local law prohibiting take off and landing from the park. Even more importantly the officer did appear to have knowledge of these types of laws/regulations by stating it would be fine to still fly there if he took off and landed from another location that was close by. Just because the officer is on the radio with a supervisor does not mean the officer did not know the 'rules'. It does indicate proper procedure. Also as noted LANCC only takes into account FAA clearances not local laws/regulations/ordinances which Keith kept saying gave him the right to fly there. In that he is correct he can fly there.. From my perspective, yes that is my perspective, Keith is normally a very abrasive individual. Even after the incident was over he was always trying to talk over Ken. Keith is the main part of the problem continually talking over people. That will always escalate any situation.
This is what pisses cops off and I understand it, he won't let the cop get a word in and that is disrespectful. Thankfully Ken was there or he probably would have been arrested. Keith need to lean when to shut the F up.
"That's fine, I've got my gun too..."
I laughed so hard I got a cramp! Keith's out here holding cops to account one stickup at a time!! 😂❤️
Great video Ken. thanks for sharing this bud
As a certified pilot myself, I can’t blame Keith, but boy was this funny. 😂😂😂 However very serious and I’m glad Keith didn’t get locked 🔒 up!
locked up for what though? what crime would they lock him up for?
I love how the guy takes the cops word over his own buddy’s
Mr. Ken you have out of this world epiphanic enlightenment. You have truly mastered the grey area in life and I love spectating it 😅 a perfect example of a prime diplomat 😊 you also perfecty calculate the words coming out of your mouth, especially when breaking down people's personalities without insulting them heheh so awesome.
Wow, thank you. I feel you've helped me discover my own enlightenment. 🤓👍
Wow, good for Tennessee. In Nevada, there are only very few recreational/metro parks you can fly. And you cannot take off from any public parking areas.
Your sign-off had me laughing out loud! Too funny. Thanks for the good laugh
This is the video I needed. Between this and Laanc Im more confused than ever. How about we have laws for police. If someone is not in danger of life limb or property they should mind their buisness. Oh wait, thats not profitable