Flash vs Terran's Biggest Weakness: CROSS SPAWN NEXUS FIRST!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
  • Flash (T) vs dear (P) on Pantheon.
    ** I found out after the cast that this player is Rich, probably the player with the most accounts on the entire ladder.
    Want to support ArtosisCasts? / artosis
    I'm probably LIVE right now, check me out:
    →Twitch: / artosis

ความคิดเห็น • 214

  • @wcjerky
    @wcjerky 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +150

    Never skip zealot leg day.

    • @soldier22881
      @soldier22881 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      dear: hold my beear

    • @osirisra1476
      @osirisra1476 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I would like Artosis to make a decision on what -- and when -- dear is supposed to sacrifice in order to get zealot legs in time. He was producing Carriers and Dragoons non-stop. He didn't begin to have extra gas until after the 4 Carriers were made, and he decided to immediately make 2 more Carriers after, which is the correct decision. If he decided to make a Citadel and research Zealot Legs, it wouldn't have finished before Flash's push anyway. He needed all those Goons and Carriers to win the fight. When, exactly, is he supposed to get zealot legs, and what is he supposed to cut in order to get them?

    • @worldermusic5214
      @worldermusic5214 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@osirisra1476 if he put down the citadel at 9:20 in game time he could've done so without slowing anything down and upgrading legs as soon as it finishes would only delay the 6th carrier by about 100 gas. Usually you delay the 3rd Nexus and make a few more zealots instead of dragoons to facilitate this. Rich made lots of zealots and he did delay the Nexus, just he did so floating 700 minerals without building the Citadel. Also think about it, 2 base carrier build will make your ground army zealot heavy naturally. I'd argue that legs upgrade has a high synergy with this build and in most games will give you more time to get carriers than the 6th carrier will afford you. It is not like the 6th carrier comes out and now it's all ok for Protoss
      you're not going to get that tasty ~7 minute Citadel with this build but yeah. definitely could've had legs for the fight.

    • @osirisra1476
      @osirisra1476 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@worldermusic5214Producing the two extra carriers ASAP puts a clock on the Terran. He correctly ascertained he didn't need to worry about zealot legs at all. Carriers are just that OP. He could've taken even more damage and still won. If Flash was not cross position then I think you have a stronger argument.

    • @worldermusic5214
      @worldermusic5214 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      You're right about the cross spawn bit but not the rest. Perhaps if there was more than 14 interceptors, less than 2 carriers worth of dps, because at no point in this game does Rich ever get the interceptor upgrade, then
      your own argument would be a lot stronger.
      8 zealots without speed in this game did more than 8 speedlots usually do in an ASL match because Flash didn't have any units blocking pathing in front of his tanks. 1 scarab and some dragoon shots + 8 zealots take out more than half of the tanks towards the very start of the whole engagement. The carriers did very little in this fight, as I said there was only 14 interceptors, less than 2 carriers of dps, and I don't know how many times Arty has to say it but that's really not a significant contribution to the army.
      Your comment about the timing should also really indicate to you why the Zealot legs are so important. Do you think that Protoss going this strat plan is to just get the 6+ carriers before the timing, and fall over if Terran hits Protoss before the timer has counted down? Flash did hit the timing and if the players could replay this fight 10 times I bet not only does the victor vary, but Flash would win most of them.
      If you want to increase your winrate with 2 base carrier, be sure to heed Arty's words here because zealot legs will give you more time as it is much more threat to the Terrans movement. If you don't die to Terrans timing, 10 seconds delay on some of the later carriers 6+ is not as significant as we usually think a 10 second delay on something is because you're going to be coming out insanely favorable in engagements for the rest of the game if you don't stupidly lose the carriers. And you'll have more bases.

  • @iago7456
    @iago7456 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +66

    If Artosis ever falls into a coma, wake him up by saying "Cross spawn nexus first"

    • @soldier22881
      @soldier22881 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ahahahahaha

    • @fanaticist
      @fanaticist วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      ahahahahaha.

    • @stambe8605
      @stambe8605 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@iago7456 Add "Into greedy fast 2 base Carrier" to put him back into a coma again.

    • @cl8804
      @cl8804 วันที่ผ่านมา

      or "leglots"

    • @NightHawk92929
      @NightHawk92929 วันที่ผ่านมา

      "terran isn't any harder than protoss"

  • @jm9425
    @jm9425 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +34

    I tried sleeping in, but I woke with a chill. Little did I know that Arty had posted another banger and thank you sir for doing that!

  • @Keith-sj3hd
    @Keith-sj3hd 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    The original starcraft manual says you should go wraiths vs carriers.
    "Tarsonian technicians found that small, dynamic high-speed fighters could repeatedly deal damage to large ships while still evading most defensive battery attacks. "

    • @stambe8605
      @stambe8605 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

      Tarsonian technicians should have build Wraiths from something other than paper.

    • @sneediumminer
      @sneediumminer วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      meanwhile wraiths take full damage from every anti air attack in the game because they are Large units

    • @debostahn
      @debostahn วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      It's a little known fact that the song "Paper Planes" was written by a B rank Terran player

    • @Szgerle
      @Szgerle วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@sneediumminer If they were small units like mutalisks, they would be so good

    • @cl8804
      @cl8804 วันที่ผ่านมา

      reminds me of the official diablo 2 strategy guide
      Dxracer

  • @IZn0g0uDatAll
    @IZn0g0uDatAll 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    Carriers are super strong as many people mention in the comments yet the matchup is basically perfectly balanced. Thing is that there are so many downsides to carriers : they offer a huge timing window to Terran to exploit before reaching critical mass, and more importantly, they usually come late game when there are lots of bases and they can’t be at once everywhere.
    That specific build is a bit problematic because all those inconveniences at negated. There are few bases on that map, and the 12 nexus means there is no obvious timing window where protoss will be weak.

    • @ArtosisCasts
      @ArtosisCasts  2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      well said.

    • @prasaite
      @prasaite 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      They dont have to be everywhere. Destroy base with units production, and than slaughter survivors. Even if terran have huge bank, he dont have enought scv's or time for real fast rebuild. It's a true power of protoss. One probe with enought huge bank, plus 90 seconds and you have second Aiur in a blink of eye in place what was empty desert or Shrek swamp.

    • @mcmarkmarkson7115
      @mcmarkmarkson7115 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I feel like mines from vultures were not really a factor in that engagement. But then not having zealots legs kinda balanced not having mines really set up for the push

    • @farming4g
      @farming4g วันที่ผ่านมา

      I'm guessing BCs are out of the question in this scenario due to the timing of falling too far behind?

    • @inguh7041
      @inguh7041 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@farming4g Yeah, why aren't yamato cannons a counter to carriers?

  • @Maldunn
    @Maldunn 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    PSL has been awesome, I hope you’re able to keep doing it! I watch SSL before PSL though and they’re both long videos so sometimes there’s a delay before I get to the PSL matches. The recent Zelot vs Royal games were great! Thanks for the casts

  • @avinotion
    @avinotion 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Regarding PSL - I do want to watch, even if I complain about the sound and brightness (though you have nothing to do with those).
    Anyway, I love this channel. It's the one I watch the most since I found it. Got me back to following Brood War tournaments (and supporting the SSL Tastosis casts - those plugs didn't go unnoticed).
    So keep on going, hopefully for at least another 20 years or so

  • @verybigbrain723
    @verybigbrain723 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    pleeease keep casting the psl. I dont know about others but I super dont mind the like background sound of the korean casters

  • @zfeazcesd1047
    @zfeazcesd1047 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    against super abusive builds like this I would like to see Terran lean into an all-in more in the timing push. you're already in a 'must-win' immediately position so u may as well just go fully all in and pull ~8-10 scvs. it's going to be extremely APM-intensive, but you can build turrets, repair, or just be 60 hp meat shields. Maybe even land my rax a minute or two earlier and pump nonstop marines just to really squeeze out as much dps as i can in the all-in.
    Flash was super close to holding and even won the battle with 4-5 tanks and 1 goliath left over....problem was the interceptors just rebuilt faster than flash could reinforce...but if flash had a bunch of scvs that built turrets I believe he would have won.

    • @dj_koen1265
      @dj_koen1265 วันที่ผ่านมา

      marines are decent vs interceptors too
      That would be a crazy all-in tho

  • @baloonfart8082
    @baloonfart8082 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

    You know what would have tipped the scale for the Terran in that fight....A few floating buildings. I don't know why that has fallen back out of favor.

    • @soldier22881
      @soldier22881 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      floating buildings are a huge cost, both minerals and time to build and then float them, thats why it not done often. it can be a good strat its just impractical.

    • @Akumasama
      @Akumasama 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      That's some crazy talk.
      Might as well call it Crazy Terran.

    • @thejubbinator1065
      @thejubbinator1065 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Agreed. During a game, Tasteless lost to a floating barracks that stopped his Dragoons from pushing into the tanks with Zealots. Spending 150 minerals to possibly save a bunch of tanks seems like a no-brainer move to me too.

    • @susugam3004
      @susugam3004 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@thejubbinator1065 this kinda implies they are just gonna a-move and not micro against it. tasteless, sure, but 2700 protoss idk

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@soldier22881 I wouldn't call 125 minerals a "huge cost" to be honest. It does take a long time and some forward planning though.

  • @TheBrettdenver
    @TheBrettdenver 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    Such a boring anti-climatic game, but Arty discussing theory and strategy the whole time makes it interesting and worth the watch. Amazing

    • @cl8804
      @cl8804 วันที่ผ่านมา

      i don't find it either a boring or an anti-climactic game; the respective strategies meeting made it interesting to see how things would shake down, and it literally had a huge climax in that battle, which actually ended up being very close. what, are you blind??

    • @TheBrettdenver
      @TheBrettdenver วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@cl8804 i complimented how the theory and strategy aspect was interesting, so chill out. Not everyone enjoys stuff in that exact same way that you do

    • @cl8804
      @cl8804 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@TheBrettdenver good man

  • @kylehuartson9448
    @kylehuartson9448 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    The thumbnail of flash staring down the nexus made me laugh so fucking hard. Amazing.

  • @heyimSkyee
    @heyimSkyee 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    Flash vs Soulkey bo7 needs to happen

    • @GPT-X938
      @GPT-X938 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Maybe in SSL spring 2025? 🤞

    • @osirisra1476
      @osirisra1476 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Soulkey would spank right now. Flash still has a lot to prove.

  • @earthbind83
    @earthbind83 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Thanks for doing all the Flash casts! You successfully baited me into subscribing even though I'm watching so much Starcraft content already.
    Now if only you could play like him instead of getting Marines stuck on each other. 😛

  • @Mathos93
    @Mathos93 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Definitely enjoying the PSL! Cheers!

  • @DoubIeO
    @DoubIeO 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    @8:28 And I see no Science facility! He might be skipping it. Flash is so ahead of Artosis because Science Facility was floating to give vision for the Goliaths in the base

  • @Sabu113
    @Sabu113 วันที่ผ่านมา

    These analytical
    Casts are a nice change of pace from asl as there’s so much insight. Both casts are good for different reasons just something I really enjoyed about this one

  • @Shoveltime198
    @Shoveltime198 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    WIfetosis cough at 2:32. Arty is sitting down during this cast based off the direction of the sound.

    • @cl8804
      @cl8804 วันที่ผ่านมา

      kinda gay

    • @Shoveltime198
      @Shoveltime198 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@cl8804 Shut up bitch

  • @Supahvegetah
    @Supahvegetah 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    Terrans biggest weakness - Protoss.

    • @Jamesgalc-gs8wu
      @Jamesgalc-gs8wu 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      You mean nexus first carrier.

    • @justingagnier2871
      @justingagnier2871 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Absolutely

    • @justingagnier2871
      @justingagnier2871 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Every toss player is a weak human in my opinion. So stupid easy to win with

    • @afwaller
      @afwaller 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      𝒫 ℛ 𝒪 𝒯 𝒪 𝒮 𝒮 ℰ 𝒟 ™

    • @cl8804
      @cl8804 วันที่ผ่านมา

      PROOOOTOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSS (in useless' voice)

  • @prasaite
    @prasaite 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    High Templar: Executor! We dont have zelot legs uppgrade. We dont have even citadel of Adun.
    Executor: Quantity is a quality.

    • @JTygerAU
      @JTygerAU 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Executor Stalin called it correctly.

  • @justincronkright5025
    @justincronkright5025 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Take down half the Goliaths, then go for tanks. How many years have I been seeing this now, let alone Artosis!
    *Would this be 1 more fact slightly earlier, Flash is pushing & the bank gets insane really quickly.

  • @phoenixlich
    @phoenixlich วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Flash lost even without enemy having zealot legs, so i can only imagine how much worse he'd have lost if zealots had legs.

  • @corymeyer1162
    @corymeyer1162 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    PSL is great. Hope you keep casting it. Cheers

  • @jesusmanuelgutierrezduarte5253
    @jesusmanuelgutierrezduarte5253 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Flash would have..... Wait uh. The matrix as glitch.

  • @Traviseen
    @Traviseen 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I enjoy watching the Flash redemption arc. Thanks for covering it.

  • @nwoDekaTsyawlA
    @nwoDekaTsyawlA วันที่ผ่านมา

    Even the zealots felt the chills in this map and were unable to run.

  • @Armisael4321
    @Armisael4321 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Do you think floating the rax and ebay would've helped soak dragoon shots and tilted the math in the Terran's favor? That and not hitting the zealots with tank shots to cook the goons faster is the only things that come to mind that could've been done better here.

  • @WickedServantEbay
    @WickedServantEbay 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    got up this morning and chills hit me - there must be a new SC Brood War vid up 😂

  • @CanderouOdar
    @CanderouOdar วันที่ผ่านมา

    The PSL even without a clean feed has been great. Please don't stop!

  • @gordontubbs
    @gordontubbs 4 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    When you do everything "right" according to the meta theory but still get beaten.

  • @Burt1038
    @Burt1038 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Man, that's rough. IDK what Flash could've done differently. The problem is that Goliaths kinda suck at their job. Technically they have a good range but b/c they are ground units in order to counter carriers most of them have to be much closer in which case they get steamrolled by the Protoss ground army before they even get a chance to fire. The obvious solution (which will never happen) is that Valks should do splash damage to interceptors. There is zero logical reason as to why they don't, other than it makes Carriers suck, which IMO would be a good thing.

    • @TheInverseable
      @TheInverseable วันที่ผ่านมา

      There is no counter to this.

  • @stephentimothybennett
    @stephentimothybennett 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I love competitive broodwar, but PSL competes with SSL in my longform-tournament-watching time, and SSL wins out since it is THE tournament. In my perfect world, PSL would happen about 2 weeks after the SSL ends to create a continuous stream of very high level broodwar. Obviously you can't control that, but I personally wouldn't mind if your cast of PSL were delayed until after SSL had finished airing.

  • @Gwanzan3325
    @Gwanzan3325 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This is why Flash has been doing bunker rushes.

  • @davidm2031
    @davidm2031 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You guys remember when RT would read the comments as he poops? He has forgotten about us, the little guy :(
    Or made he doesnt poop anymore 🤔

  • @Tmr2010
    @Tmr2010 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Damn you’re good at the breakdowns

  • @mitch7918
    @mitch7918 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Carrier as a unit just feels unfair. So tanky, so much damage, total chaos on your screen looks psychology intimidating.

    • @addlemm44
      @addlemm44 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      fly anywhere, stack together

    • @harbhub
      @harbhub 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      I think the big oversight by the devs was that Interceptors can stay outside the Carrier indefinitely so long as it is moving/attacking.

    • @Larsgman
      @Larsgman 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      My experience against toss and carriers are from a terran exclusive experience, and my experience is as follows:
      Carriers wouldn’t be so OP if:
      1) the interceptors wouldn’t heal to full health when they ducked back into the carrier (seemingly, i never looked up the details, but fighting so many carriers over the years this is what it felt like)
      2) interceptors swarming all over the screen made it extremely difficult to target the carriers directly.
      3) attack move AI was improved so that goliaths would automatically attack the carriers directly instead of targeting interceptors like dummies
      4) improving the ability for the terran player to execute lockdowns against carriers. On paper, you would think terrans should be invincible against carriers with “OP” units like the goliath and ghost, but the reality of trying to lockdown a carrier through an interceptor swarm is equivalent to pissing through a needle. Over 50% of the time, i *GUARANTEE* you, you will hit an interceptor instead of the carrier by mistake with lockdown. Because of the massive cost of lockdown, the resources and time it takes to invest in ghosts, and the time it takes for a ghost to reach max energy - you will probably already have 80% of your bases destroyed or your army decimated.
      5) optical flare is a joke against Terran. The only thing i have ever seen successfully executing optical flare against an observer was AI. On paper, the terran go-to to destroy carriers would be ghosts to lockdown, goliaths to destroy the carriers, and optical flare on observers so the ghosts can be protected. Same problem with lockdown, trying to hit multiple tiny observers through a carrier group and interceptor swarm is a pipe dream.

    • @pmendoza6681
      @pmendoza6681 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Marine medic and tanks will crush that

  • @Foxnram
    @Foxnram 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    pretty sure Artosis played on Flash's account xD

  • @NealX_Gaming
    @NealX_Gaming 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    So unless I missed something, he not only skipped Citadel, but the Interceptor upgrade as well? I didn't see him make that upgrade, which is weird to me because he was definitely floating enough resources to make it. Is that done intentionally to limit the amount of minerals spent when you spam build Interceptors?

  • @JP-xw2kf
    @JP-xw2kf 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    That was a good fight carriers are my favorite protoss unit

  • @gerkan2052
    @gerkan2052 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I don’t think I‘ve ever seen protoss lose any Carrier to Goliaths

  • @stevejohncockram
    @stevejohncockram 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I must be frederick cook because i've got CHILLS

  • @worldermusic5214
    @worldermusic5214 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Arty can you watch that fight again and let me know if I'm insane? What I'm looking at is surreal. There are only 14 interceptors in this fight. You could have more interceptors with 2 carriers than what Rich was working with between 4. The zealots who skipped leg day seemed to win this fight. a single reaver scarab and 8 slow zealots took out 8 siege tanks without any dragoon assistance and very little carrier damage output. These 8 tanks were in the front leaving only 6 tanks behind the goliaths after that, 2 of which did not siege until after the 8 front tanks were lost.
    Flash did not lay a single mine with the vultures or have any preset up mines. Most of the vultures got stuck behind the tanks when the tanks sieged, either way there are no units that block the slow zealots, making them more effective than fast zealots usually are when there's a good amount of vultures in front of the tanks. The gols are behind the 8 tanks too.
    I think you missed this because, you're casting a Flash game, this kind of thing shouldn't be on your radar right? Unfortunately, what I think I'm looking at here is the worst siege I've ever seen Flash perform. Because of the 6gate and late 3rd (even for 2 base carrier) I see Flash's gg as premature, but it makes more sense to me when I consider that he would know that this engagement did not have to go that badly, and he'd be kicking himself. The position Flash is in after the engagement is probably not something he has much interest in if he still believes that push should be the correct way to deal with his opponents play.

    • @worldermusic5214
      @worldermusic5214 วันที่ผ่านมา

      quick ammendment; there were some significant dragoon shots on 2 of the 8 tanks that got swarmed by zealots but otherwise was zealot dps + splash damage that killed the rest of the front line tanks.

  • @joebazooks
    @joebazooks วันที่ผ่านมา

    *dan, please explain to us why in SSL the players names display differently in the lobby chat compared to the lobby player board*

  • @TomaszWinnicki
    @TomaszWinnicki 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Does science vessel's EMP take out the shields of all close-by carriers or only the one targeted?

    • @prasaite
      @prasaite 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Everything in radius of schock wave. Mana burned too.

  • @cowboyluke4013
    @cowboyluke4013 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    shoulda started lockdown right after that scan

  • @dirkauditore8413
    @dirkauditore8413 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Would ghosts be of any use to lockdown carriers? Given terran has some time to prep before the carriers are a threat.

    • @dj_koen1265
      @dj_koen1265 วันที่ผ่านมา

      its not reliable enough and costs too much to get so early in the game

  • @erikalexander3085
    @erikalexander3085 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Love the PSL casts if its viable for you to continue producing/casting.

  • @soldier22881
    @soldier22881 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    flash up against cross nexus first, OH DEAR. ahahah get it!?!?

  • @jonathangodbolt1671
    @jonathangodbolt1671 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Do terrans need to start bbs in the middle of the map occasionally to punish nexus first?

  • @pallytime2156
    @pallytime2156 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Can't you Shift Attack Target your Tanks on those Goons? So they attack one then the other and other when they done?

  • @youuuuuuuuuuutube
    @youuuuuuuuuuutube 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Very instructive game.

  • @user-wo5dm8ci1g
    @user-wo5dm8ci1g วันที่ผ่านมา

    Personally, I can't deal with too speaking audio streams layered over each other. Unit confirmations blend into the background after a while, but the "noisy" streams with the other casters I had to turn off after just a few minutes. Your clean casts are fine (just you talking) and your streams are fine (just chat shitposting), but I would much rather have muted game sounds then hear 2 sets of casters talking at the same time, personally. Everyone else prefers the extra sound thats fine, but I'll personally be skipping them then.

  • @AdorableOdyssey
    @AdorableOdyssey 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Blows my mind that he did a firebat drop in the mineral line.

  • @2ndCanpipe
    @2ndCanpipe 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I know this is beating a dead horse. The PSL streams are awesome, I'd love to watch them, but even when it's quiet the conflicting English and Korean commentary give me a headache after a few minutes. I'd watch the hell out of them if they were replays or a clean feed.

  • @helloken
    @helloken วันที่ผ่านมา

    No doubt cross spawn nexus first into 2 base carrier is an IMBA build, but just out of interest on counters...
    First, everything has to go right, meaning as Terran you have the 1 depot 15 CC hyper optimized build as you see here. Scan and see the carrier build right away or early enough...
    I wonder if you go faster factory adds 1-1 timing against this on a single armory? No starport or science facility, no second armory, 2 base mega all-in? Should have a few more units at the cost of +2 weapon, although in theory +2 weapon helps a lot...?
    Second, if balancing this carefully to not throw the balance of the rest of the game, what small changes could be made? For example, add more build time to carriers? Make the additional interceptor upgrade extremely long? I'm a noob but in my head I feel like adding more time for the carriers to become more potent feels like one approach...

    • @dj_koen1265
      @dj_koen1265 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      bw will never get a balance change, if they were to nerf carriers my suggestion would be to lower the max amount of interceptors to 6 to reduce their supply efficiency and reduce the amount of interceptors on screen
      as for what could terran do better? as a complete noob i wouldnt know, but i think pulling some more scvs to help tank and repair, and maybe bringing the barracks or ebay to absorb dragoon shots

  • @ruckica
    @ruckica 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    the matchs starts at 0.0. pro0toss had too much time. in the end, without haras flash could have focused on the carriers in the micro war. terran didnt use any high tech stuff. maybe go mines, lockdown etc. ghosts, medics, scvessel etc. maybe camp with the ghosts on the opponent base and spam lockdown if he try to move out

  • @Bob-qc8kn
    @Bob-qc8kn 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    If you know carrier can you throw in some ghosts with lockdown or is it too slow and cost too much gas

    • @prasaite
      @prasaite 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Very effective but very complicate for humans. AI can do it much easly couse it have bilions hands and mouses.

    • @Bob-qc8kn
      @Bob-qc8kn 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      You would need to lockdown 1 at that point to tip the scale

  • @xardiodrack1798
    @xardiodrack1798 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    i hope flash come back or soulkey is gonna continue crushing every terran he come across also i like psl but it would be even better if you bring tastless for next season its always a blast when you cast together and has always thank for the games

  • @osirisra1476
    @osirisra1476 วันที่ผ่านมา

    All that fellating just for Flash to get absolutely crushed...

  • @newbraveworld9733
    @newbraveworld9733 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Are valkyries vs carriers a thing?

  • @condemned77
    @condemned77 วันที่ผ่านมา

    How are you getting on the waitlist?

  • @DemKartal
    @DemKartal 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    0:08 flassssh!!

  • @GASHPAN
    @GASHPAN 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I wonder if Protoss players feel dirty after this build and have to shower afterwards..? GG!

  • @Jamesgalc-gs8wu
    @Jamesgalc-gs8wu 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    @artosis do these pros just run into each other on the ladder and decide to keep playing each other?

    • @RichardJamesMendoza
      @RichardJamesMendoza 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Sometimes they do, but oftentimes they organize private lobbies particularly for sponsored showmatches (called "sponbang" in informal Korean).

    • @Maldunn
      @Maldunn 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I think it happens a lot naturally if they both immediately go into another match right after one ends. There probably aren’t a ton of other available players to match with at the same time with that skill level

  • @liammorriss
    @liammorriss 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Flash could stop all wars and create world peace

  • @pyrothem
    @pyrothem 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I am watching, and enjoying, and whatnot.

  • @BatkoNashBandera774
    @BatkoNashBandera774 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Sad to see Zealots got their gym membership revoked. =\

  • @rocksparadox
    @rocksparadox 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    ''Áh Misteur Arbtois, Kross Spaun Nexoos Fuurst!''

  • @Elyvilon
    @Elyvilon 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I prefer PSL to random ladder games but I can tell that that doesn't seem to be the common view.

  • @KonfluxGames
    @KonfluxGames วันที่ผ่านมา

    Do keep up the PSL, sure it would be better with clean feed, but more Starcraft is good :)

  • @ErkiEntveg
    @ErkiEntveg 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    What about Battlecruisers? Or add Valkyres?

    • @atypewriter
      @atypewriter 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      BCs are way too slow, and Valks don't deal splash to interceptors

    • @ErkiEntveg
      @ErkiEntveg วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@atypewriter One EMP to carriers to take down shields and then 4 valks to make splash to carriers.

    • @atypewriter
      @atypewriter วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@ErkiEntveg How much damage do you think valks do to the carriers themselves? they're doing 6dmg 8 times. Carrier has base 4 armor. Each instance of valk damage is going to be reduced by armor, so they're doing 2dmg x8 per volley. You would need 5 volleys from 4valks to kill carriers which would take over 13s
      And that's not even considering that the carriers can just target down the valks.

  • @overwatch3595
    @overwatch3595 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    No legs no interceptors upgrade. What?

  • @usmh
    @usmh วันที่ผ่านมา

    Vulture drop and get a third behind it...?

  • @politeesports4611
    @politeesports4611 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It feels wrong to have to accept that there is a strategy that not even FLASH can do anything about.
    When will Blizzard release the balance patch? ^^

  • @mcmarkmarkson7115
    @mcmarkmarkson7115 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The classic carriers are so much cooler than the sc2 version

  • @Wysaw
    @Wysaw 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    PSL is great content imo

  • @wkazxm
    @wkazxm วันที่ผ่านมา

    Marines with stim would walk all over that build

  • @justinlai2035
    @justinlai2035 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    1 nexus first = 1 chill

  • @anjunzhouJack
    @anjunzhouJack 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I like PSL, please continue:)

  • @johnnyboy3563
    @johnnyboy3563 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Let's be real Artosis..... Everyone in the SC scene has had a lot less respect for you since you came up with Crazy Zerg as a strategy name.

  • @MrDdz
    @MrDdz วันที่ผ่านมา

    Why hasn't Flash come back to ASSL yet??

    • @TheInverseable
      @TheInverseable วันที่ผ่านมา

      he has nothing to prove. everyone knows the name flash.

  • @chongli297
    @chongli297 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    How Terran beats this: Blizzard comes out with a patch that triples fleet beacon build time!

    • @johnkalyvas4838
      @johnkalyvas4838 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Or they could fix the bug that prevents interceptors from going back inside the carrier as long as the carrier remains in motion. That way, carriers would have to stay within 8 range of the enemy and launch interceptors 1 by 1, instead of moving into 8 range, launching all their interceptors immediately, and kiting back to 12 range.

    • @dj_koen1265
      @dj_koen1265 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@johnkalyvas4838 no that would ruin everything that makes carriers interesting, and reduce it to a boring a-move brainless unit
      there are so many other possible nerfs you could do
      but since the game will never be changed it will have to be accepted as it is

  • @stevenfinafrock5627
    @stevenfinafrock5627 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Am i crazy or was there no interceptor upgrade?

    • @NealX_Gaming
      @NealX_Gaming 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Nope, I didn't see it either, see my comment. Maybe intentional to limit mineral spending?

    • @dj_koen1265
      @dj_koen1265 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@NealX_Gaming its probably to save gas for other stuff

    • @worldermusic5214
      @worldermusic5214 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@dj_koen1265 Sir, the interceptor upgrade costs 100/100 and doubles the capacity of interceptors, which is the entire dps of the carrier. carriers cost 250 gas, there is no world in which you skip the interceptor upgrade to save money when you are going carriers. I'm 99% sure it is a total blunder and if I was going to try to justify as intentional I could maybe believe an argument that Rich was trying to surprise Flash with a large amount of gateway units for someone who is going 2 base carrier. You'd have thought he'd get legs if that was his intention, but I think we are just watching two great players make big mistakes.
      @ OP, thankyou for restoring my faith in the comment section haha. There are only 14 interceptors and 4 carriers; you can have 16 interceptors with 2 carriers. It's like 1/400 games I feel like Artosis missed what I see as the most relevant aspects of the game. But this is one of them, and it's not the interceptors either. That siege from Flash was terrible, just look at it yourself. It's rare for speedlots to be as effective in a fight as slow zealots were this game. But sieging all the tanks at the front and having all the vultures either way too far in front of the army or behind the tanks meant that the first 8 zealots WITHOUT SPEED were able to walk forwards and remove 8 tanks from that fight with the help of 1 scarab and very few dragoon shots. Very early on into the fight there were only 4 tanks left in siege mode.

  • @wargumbyx
    @wargumbyx 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    if only people were not so terrified to build valkyries

    • @ArtosisCasts
      @ArtosisCasts  2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      valkyries do not deal splash damage to interceptors.

    • @wargumbyx
      @wargumbyx 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@ArtosisCasts they actually do but in a unique way. so unlike goliaths/wraiths whose missles go dead if their target dies in flight. valkyrie missle splash hits a new target if the original dies. so while they may not aoe like normal they will not waste missles or get distracted by zealots like goliaths

    • @stambe8605
      @stambe8605 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@wargumbyx Im glad im not the only one to realize that. Goliaths/wraiths waste missiles not only when a target goes dead, but they also overkill interceptors that stray too far from the Carrier and many of your units will acquire it as a target and waste shots, also when or if the interceptors go inside the Carrier to heal or if the Carrier stops attacking Turrets/Gols/Wraiths shots are wasted, but Valkyries halo rocekts ALWAYS hit something and while they do not deal splash dmg to interceptors, if a stray halo rocket hits an Interceptor close to the Carrier it WILL deal splash damage to the Carrier itself.
      But in this game i dont think Flash had money to go Valks on 2 base, thats more of a 3 or 4 base thing. He either had to expand to a 3rd the moment he saw the Stargates building (which was pretty much as early as he could have possibly have seen them) or like Artosis said go for an even faster timing with only +1 or 1/1 at most, when there will be 2 Carriers on the field. But he chose the 7 fact timing and couldnt pull it off. GGs.

    • @wargumbyx
      @wargumbyx วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@stambe8605 i think the cost is deferred by the fact that you stop making tanks to fight the zealots and make valkyries instead. mass tank into even small amounts of carriers is losing because they cant keep up with the battle and sieging in combat means the tanks are almost always losing

  • @chaddunn6334
    @chaddunn6334 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Wasn’t dear an sc2 player?

  • @1979ce
    @1979ce 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Flash needed floating buildings to absorb hits

  • @gregjuva
    @gregjuva 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    protoss is too imba. Marines should be able to load into barracks and shoot from it while it floats like a hovering bunker. Upgrade available at the ebay to move capacity from 4 marines in barracks to 8.

  • @UncyRandy
    @UncyRandy วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    PSL audio sucks

  • @streetstroller
    @streetstroller วันที่ผ่านมา

    I dont get why Flash gg'ed.

  • @BlackuKnighto
    @BlackuKnighto 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Flash would have won Sadge

  • @pivorsc
    @pivorsc 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    you deer

  • @Crud-Stevens
    @Crud-Stevens 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    cool beans

  • @ssf4evo
    @ssf4evo 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    start checking for the scan vision. you talk a lot over those scans that you never check for

  • @darylav2023
    @darylav2023 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    we already know protoss (and also zerg) is RIGGED!!!

  • @bobagowoof
    @bobagowoof 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I will pay $100 to see flash play artosis with one less scv

  • @wowlightshadow
    @wowlightshadow 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Just a small detail for your production Artosis. Keeping the game zoomed out for a longer time, is especially bad when watching it on a phone. Cant see much at all, its quite frustrating. Else, keep up the casts, my brain is wired to watch you every day at this hour xD

  • @mark_fi
    @mark_fi 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Flash would of won

  • @craigmnelson86
    @craigmnelson86 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Ghost lock down is a counter id like to see

    • @prasaite
      @prasaite 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yeap but very complicate for humans. AI can do it much easier. You know bilions hands and bilions mouses, for clicking. The best counter for carriers is try destroy protoss before he get magical number of 6 carriers.

    • @dj_koen1265
      @dj_koen1265 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@prasaite the problem is not that its too hard, the problem is that it costs too much gas and time to get early and lockdown doesnt have enough range to actually hit the carriers

    • @prasaite
      @prasaite วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@dj_koen1265 And when protoss only fake carriers you have useless ghosts against speed zelots, and waste lots of time for nothing.

  • @bitblueduck
    @bitblueduck 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Why do competetive maps have random spawn locations? If there were only 2 locations or always cross-spawn it would much more balanced in my opinion.

    • @garrettwilson4754
      @garrettwilson4754 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      There are two and three-player maps on ladder. Usually, two player maps heavily favor one race over others at the pro level. IIRC Artosis himself thinks 3-player maps are the most interesting

    • @Maldunn
      @Maldunn 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      That’s how StarCraft 2 is and I find it very dull to watch. Love the map variety in broodwar, and you get a lot of interesting strategies cause they don’t know exactly where the opponent is every match.

    • @bitblueduck
      @bitblueduck 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Maldunn I am not an expert, so please don't take my opinion too seriously. I find this like a coin flip mechanism and not very fair for the player. Early scouting info might be very important, and it matters if you find the opponent in the first or third location. The same way I don't like SCV mechanics when it builds randomly on the exposed side and melee units can reach it. Anyway I can accept as a valid answer that more viewers like it this way, and of course the audience keeps the game alive.

    • @atypewriter
      @atypewriter 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Do you want to see Protoss gas-steal Terran every single game? That matchup would become the most stale and boring thing in the universe.

  • @panswiata3756
    @panswiata3756 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    WTF game? Big LOL