As someone who is FA leaning anxious in a dynamic with a DA that has inspired huge changes in my life (including discovering this channel), thank you for helping me understand myself and others!
@lmart16 not necessarily - i'm an FA with a DA again after an 18mo period of no contact & though i *definitely* unknowingly played the "dismissive - anxious dance" our 1st time, since we reconnected i've leaned *way* more into my dismissive side attachment theory *(especially* "integrated attachment theory" that thais developed!) can be super helpful for understanding people but we're all still *individuals* & ultimately *more* than our *dynamic* attachment styles
Summary: Limerence is unbridled infatuation. Symptoms are incessant rumination that interferes with appetite, concentration and productivity. Extreme longing and projected fantasy ideals almost to the point of pain. Three major features that drive limerence: 1) subconscious comfortzone 2) traits 3) needs Major needs that DA fall in limerence with: 1) unconditional acceptance 2) feeling supported and cared for 3) deeply emphatized with and heard 4) admired and appreciated in a genuine way 5) feel very safe to let their guard down 6) need for independence understood and made room for 7) place of harmony and lighthearted fun Limerence subjects: - movie stars, book characters etc. truly unavailable people Things we are in limerence with are subconscious voids of deeply unmet needs. Example; fall in limerance because of deep acceptance and understanding --> lacking inner acceptance and understanding. Ironically, because limerence touches on these inner voids, despite that feeling accepted and understood feel good, DA's will sabotage the relationship because it misaligns with their inner relationship to themselves. That's why we have to put attention to what traits and needs we fall in limerence with, because it is important feedback what to foster more of on a deep personal level for reprogramming.
I am in a friendship with a woman who is 34 years younger than me. We are strangely connected. I believe she falls under the anxious avoidant personality which led me to your videos. What made me come to this conclusion was her texting style and her nonresponse to texting that I thought was strange. I am a nurse so I want to help her get to a more mature state and get over these avoidant personality issues, but thanks to your videos, I realize I have to handle her with kid gloves. Thank you for your guidance. So far we have a great relationship, but since I am so much older, I realize I am meeting these deep needs that she has. I don't have a problem with it. I want to help her be a better person for her future soulmate.
And I would argue that the dismissive avoidant creates opportunities and circumstances that bring shame upon themselves from their partner in order to bring this familiarity about in other words, they might have a partner who would never consider treating them in a shameful way, but find themselves doing so almost uncontrollably in many situation’s. I hope this makes sense, but it has certainly been my experience
It completely makes sense. I've been there. They enact self-fulfilling prophecies for themselves due to their fears and limiting beliefs. It just takes lots of self-control to correct them, explain your boundaries, or walk away without shaming them and activating that super insecurity that causes them to run away. Gotta be honest, but you have to do it with love, which is without uncontrolled anger, so you'll be effective.
Your channel is God's gift to some of us. You are helping people from all over the globe to heal in ways they never even thought was an option. Thank you so very much.
DA who are cared and heard, won't commit at all in any case. You will have to show unconditional love every day and 0 needs in order to obtain something. Then you'll be kind of their rug, not a partner.
This is so interesting because ppl think they go to certain stores for things but they are also tied to these psychological needs of importance, value, inclusion, acknowledgement. Chik-fil-a for instance goes out of their way for customer or hotels.
Yes. My ex loved porn more than life itself. His whole life was a porn fantasy. Didn’t want a real person. Was happier with fantasizing in front of a computer screen.
Hi Thais, enjoy your videos very much. They have such great insight. My experience with a DA is that their surface appearance is fantasy. Once I really got to know her I could sense an internal struggle in her between how she really felt and how she displayed it. Sometimes she would get upset at the fact I was not upset about something she thought was important. Very ambivalent at times. One thing you are right is after the perfect mindset they build they will begin to shred your personality one piece at a time. I would be reminded of how I was five minutes late today to see her and from that I became late at everything even when I was on time or even early. She would remind me if it took more than 30 minutes to cut the grass that somehow I was slack because it should only take 30 minutes. The real killer and is quite humourous is that I blew these criticisms off which would make her mad. The key though that really bothered me more than anything is people on the outside of the relationship could do anything they wanted to her and she would remain silent. I came to the conclusion that severe DAs cannot have real relationships because of not depending on their real emotions, they create a fantasy world that is impossible to create. I saw her real emotions from time to time but they were short lived but I realized she had a heart. I personally don't think catering to the issues or trying to create a perfect scenario with them is worthwhile. I have a secure attachment and I generally don't take what people have to say as gospel. Relationships require both partners being committed to the relationship, each other, and their self. Any one of those three missting and you have nothing.
Dismissive Avoidant can also have strong limerence with their CHURCH PASTORS ! Someone that is totally unavailable, they get some sort of fulfillment/regulation, always knowing there is never any danger of serious emotional connection
As a DA I relate to being really attracted to emotional availability, presence, caring, loving, charismatic guys. My exes who I felt most strongly about displayed those traits initially but turned out to be emotionally unavailable, but I was still committed to those relationships even though I was unhappy. So we are attracted to traits we don’t think we have as well as familiar dynamics (in my case emotional availability AND emotional unavailability)? I’m a bit confused about this one
If you pay particular attention to what goes on inside psychologically/emotionally when you feel your walls (emotional blocks) go up , you’ll notice there’s still an emotional block that needs to be attended to. Your need to feel safe secure supported (you may notice doubt and trust lurking in the background) loved etc is not being met. In theses moments you seek refuge by shutting down (emotionally unavailable)When your wounds are exposed ( and still not healed or at least not fully being brought to light ) you’ll notice that you retreat to your safe place to sooth. When you feel an emotional surge that is unpleasant , you know there is still work to be done to complete the pieces of the psychological puzzle
No it totally makes sense to me. The DA dating scenario is the initial: oh wow I like you, tell me all about you. Especially when both people haven't had an intimate connection in a long time. But a DA doesn't necessarily know what it takes to maintain an intimate connection. If you found someone equally avoident you end up with two people living along side of each other. And one person always suffers a bit more. Especially if one DA is high on ambitions and life dreams and the other one is avoident in other aspects of life too. I used to be DA after dating a FA. And I really struggled with the guys lack of excitement for life so I lived my own, kept him at arm length and he did that too but in his own way. He was potentially more securely attached than myself but I don't remember ever sharing any fears or issues with my family nor did he. A very weird avoident dynamic.
This makes sense to me exactly as you stated it-there is an appearance of availability but it only goes so far, which is what we are comfortable with, even though we consciously know it is not the path to happiness. We might not consciously recognize that’s what we’re seeing. We see someone who is non-judgmental and welcomes us as we are, at our level of emotional comfort. We probably identify with the WAY they are available, not recognizing that it is a variety that might signal a limit to that availability. Then as we both progress, we both come up against that wall, or more likely one person comes up against it before the other. It seems like the force of limerence is not very wise. It is projecting rather than healing, so I can see it making snap judgments and liking contradictory things.
Really good stuff. Since avoidants avoid (duh!) real relationships as their default, it's interesting to know what, if anything, would make them become limerent or obsessed with a real, ordinary person instead of a celebrity, a movie character or other complete fantasy.
i used to have limerence for celebrities, it was obsessive and delusional to the point of painful. Ive done a lot of work on myself now and am just still alone. Dont know if this is any better if Im honest 😕
@@asheekitty9488 I've done a lot of self development including PDS. The limerance has stopped but I can't see myself ever finding love. Dunno if I'd rather have the limerance back
Hey guys got a question. Was with a dismissive avoidant after he’s been single for almost 7 years. He didn’t want to commit so I broke up. He rebound with a girl and was with her for one year. He committed to being in a relationship but ran when marriage came up. Is it possible I’ve been his phantom ex? And is it possible he’ll reach out to me now? Because my ego would like that very much 😅
He’ll keep running from one relationship to the next, repeating the toxic cycle. DA’s are incapable of being in intimate relationships unless and until they get help to heal them from their fears of intimacy. You are better off without him. Are you his phantom ex? You won’t know bc they don’t open up to tell you. Eyes forward.
Ummmm no, unfortunately I don't think so. You've got a soul tie if you have been ruminating on this notion. Most men will realize what they had when their ex moves on & is doing well, but that's no reason to be sitting & wondering if that is what he's actually doing. Enjoy your life! He doesn't deserve you if he can drop you & carry on without you. You deserve someone who prioritizes you. Take care!
It's possible. And you know best what you have been to him and what he's been to you. I know how hard all those doubts and ruminations are. So, these 'move on' advices are well ment: but what you need is self assurance. Your perception of the situation is right and can be trusted. Doesn't matter if he validates this perception with his words. Some people cannot validate anything. So, the next step should be the question what to do now? What do YOU wanna do? Try again? Call him (if he rejects you, that's life, do not make it mean anything about yourself). Or do YOU wanna leave it alone? Is he worth ist? Will it help you to grow or hinder you? It's not about him. It's about you. Wish you the best!
This is interesting...my DA's wife died of Covid and it seems he has immortalised her as the ideal wife, lover, partner...whenever we have issues he posts up romantic stuff about her as the ideal & best partner ever....we just broke up.
Mental Health TH-cam is like: I find a new disorder every week that I have Actually I feel pretty much mentioned here. I am a heavy daydreamer and I had many crushes in the past and present where I was more into the subconscious dream relationship rather than being in the present with the crush.
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As someone who is FA leaning anxious in a dynamic with a DA that has inspired huge changes in my life (including discovering this channel), thank you for helping me understand myself and others!
Having a similar experience, only I’m an F.A. leaning avoidant. Good luck in your healing & relationship ❤️🩹
@@katymello3547 Thanks! You too.
If you're with a DA, you'd lean on the Anxious side of the relationship
It sure is a life-healer!
@lmart16 not necessarily - i'm an FA with a DA again after an 18mo period of no contact & though i *definitely* unknowingly played the "dismissive - anxious dance" our 1st time, since we reconnected i've leaned *way* more into my dismissive side
attachment theory *(especially* "integrated attachment theory" that thais developed!) can be super helpful for understanding people but we're all still *individuals* & ultimately *more* than our *dynamic* attachment styles
Summary:
Limerence is unbridled infatuation. Symptoms are incessant rumination that interferes with appetite, concentration and productivity. Extreme longing and projected fantasy ideals almost to the point of pain.
Three major features that drive limerence:
1) subconscious comfortzone
2) traits
3) needs
Major needs that DA fall in limerence with:
1) unconditional acceptance
2) feeling supported and cared for
3) deeply emphatized with and heard
4) admired and appreciated in a genuine way
5) feel very safe to let their guard down
6) need for independence understood and made room for
7) place of harmony and lighthearted fun
Limerence subjects:
- movie stars, book characters etc. truly unavailable people
Things we are in limerence with are subconscious voids of deeply unmet needs. Example; fall in limerance because of deep acceptance and understanding --> lacking inner acceptance and understanding.
Ironically, because limerence touches on these inner voids, despite that feeling accepted and understood feel good, DA's will sabotage the relationship because it misaligns with their inner relationship to themselves.
That's why we have to put attention to what traits and needs we fall in limerence with, because it is important feedback what to foster more of on a deep personal level for reprogramming.
thank you so much for this
Brilliant comment, thank you
the very things my DA wanted are the things he was sabotaging by being controlling and critical.
bless your heart
the place of harmony and lighthearted fun is so hard because they are also hyper critical.. which is one of the 4 horsemen.
I am in a friendship with a woman who is 34 years younger than me. We are strangely connected. I believe she falls under the anxious avoidant personality which led me to your videos. What made me come to this conclusion was her texting style and her nonresponse to texting that I thought was strange. I am a nurse so I want to help her get to a more mature state and get over these avoidant personality issues, but thanks to your videos, I realize I have to handle her with kid gloves. Thank you for your guidance. So far we have a great relationship, but since I am so much older, I realize I am meeting these deep needs that she has. I don't have a problem with it. I want to help her be a better person for her future soulmate.
Love love love my DA female friend! She has given me so many opportunities for growth!!
And I would argue that the dismissive avoidant creates opportunities and circumstances that bring shame upon themselves from their partner in order to bring this familiarity about in other words, they might have a partner who would never consider treating them in a shameful way, but find themselves doing so almost uncontrollably in many situation’s. I hope this makes sense, but it has certainly been my experience
It completely makes sense. I've been there. They enact self-fulfilling prophecies for themselves due to their fears and limiting beliefs. It just takes lots of self-control to correct them, explain your boundaries, or walk away without shaming them and activating that super insecurity that causes them to run away. Gotta be honest, but you have to do it with love, which is without uncontrolled anger, so you'll be effective.
Self sabotage
@@Leoo117walk away without blaming, walk away without shaming. Wish everyone well but take care of yourself ❤
Your channel is God's gift to some of us. You are helping people from all over the globe to heal in ways they never even thought was an option.
Thank you so very much.
DA who are cared and heard, won't commit at all in any case. You will have to show unconditional love every day and 0 needs in order to obtain something. Then you'll be kind of their rug, not a partner.
AMEN!!!
This is so interesting because ppl think they go to certain stores for things but they are also tied to these psychological needs of importance, value, inclusion, acknowledgement. Chik-fil-a for instance goes out of their way for customer or hotels.
As a DA you hit the nail on the head!
Loved the point about attraction towards fictional characters!!
Yes. My ex loved porn more than life itself. His whole life was a porn fantasy. Didn’t want a real person. Was happier with fantasizing in front of a computer screen.
I cannot thank you enough for your channel
❤
Hi Thais, enjoy your videos very much. They have such great insight. My experience with a DA is that their surface appearance is fantasy.
Once I really got to know her I could sense an internal struggle in her between how she really felt and how she displayed it. Sometimes she would get upset at the fact I was not upset about something she thought was important. Very ambivalent at times. One thing you are right is after the perfect mindset they build they will begin to shred your personality one piece at a time. I would be reminded of how I was five minutes late today to see her and from that I became late at everything even when I was on time or even early. She would remind me if it took more than 30 minutes to cut the grass that somehow I was slack because it should only take 30 minutes. The real killer and is quite humourous is that I blew these criticisms off which would make her mad. The key though that really bothered me more than anything is people on the outside of the relationship could do anything they wanted to her and she would remain silent. I came to the conclusion that severe DAs cannot have real relationships because of not depending on their real emotions, they create a fantasy world that is impossible to create. I saw her real emotions from time to time but they were short lived but I realized she had a heart. I personally don't think catering to the issues or trying to create a perfect scenario with them is worthwhile. I have a secure attachment and I generally don't take what people have to say as gospel. Relationships require both partners being committed to the relationship, each other, and their self. Any one of those three missting and you have nothing.
I agree with the closing statement “Without all 3 you have nothing”. Very good point, thanks, man
All the best on your journey too
Sounds more borderline
Dismissive Avoidant can also have strong limerence with their CHURCH PASTORS ! Someone that is totally unavailable, they get some sort of fulfillment/regulation, always knowing there is never any danger of serious emotional connection
As a DA I relate to being really attracted to emotional availability, presence, caring, loving, charismatic guys. My exes who I felt most strongly about displayed those traits initially but turned out to be emotionally unavailable, but I was still committed to those relationships even though I was unhappy. So we are attracted to traits we don’t think we have as well as familiar dynamics (in my case emotional availability AND emotional unavailability)? I’m a bit confused about this one
If you pay particular attention to what goes on inside psychologically/emotionally when you feel your walls (emotional blocks) go up , you’ll notice there’s still an emotional block that needs to be attended to. Your need to feel safe secure supported (you may notice doubt and trust lurking in the background) loved etc is not being met. In theses moments you seek refuge by shutting down (emotionally unavailable)When your wounds are exposed ( and still not healed or at least not fully being brought to light ) you’ll notice that you retreat to your safe place to sooth. When you feel an emotional surge that is unpleasant , you know there is still work to be done to complete the pieces of the psychological puzzle
No it totally makes sense to me. The DA dating scenario is the initial: oh wow I like you, tell me all about you. Especially when both people haven't had an intimate connection in a long time. But a DA doesn't necessarily know what it takes to maintain an intimate connection. If you found someone equally avoident you end up with two people living along side of each other. And one person always suffers a bit more. Especially if one DA is high on ambitions and life dreams and the other one is avoident in other aspects of life too.
I used to be DA after dating a FA. And I really struggled with the guys lack of excitement for life so I lived my own, kept him at arm length and he did that too but in his own way. He was potentially more securely attached than myself but I don't remember ever sharing any fears or issues with my family nor did he. A very weird avoident dynamic.
This makes sense to me exactly as you stated it-there is an appearance of availability but it only goes so far, which is what we are comfortable with, even though we consciously know it is not the path to happiness. We might not consciously recognize that’s what we’re seeing. We see someone who is non-judgmental and welcomes us as we are, at our level of emotional comfort. We probably identify with the WAY they are available, not recognizing that it is a variety that might signal a limit to that availability. Then as we both progress, we both come up against that wall, or more likely one person comes up against it before the other.
It seems like the force of limerence is not very wise. It is projecting rather than healing, so I can see it making snap judgments and liking contradictory things.
Dismissive and anxious style can be two sides of the same coin when two DA's are dating, depends what's going on at any particular moment
Really good stuff. Since avoidants avoid (duh!) real relationships as their default, it's interesting to know what, if anything, would make them become limerent or obsessed with a real, ordinary person instead of a celebrity, a movie character or other complete fantasy.
Ok. After this series about limerance I know now that I'm for shure a mixture between DA and FA.
i used to have limerence for celebrities, it was obsessive and delusional to the point of painful. Ive done a lot of work on myself now and am just still alone. Dont know if this is any better if Im honest 😕
@@someonespecial581 I just did an online test cos I was curious after your comment, and scored 0 out of 8. Is limerence a train of HPD?
@@karenKristal Histronics tend to have fantasies about celebrities and such
Being alone is a human experience but I hope you find love. Definitely go to therapy and coaching though to escape magical thinking
@@asheekitty9488 I've done a lot of self development including PDS. The limerance has stopped but I can't see myself ever finding love. Dunno if I'd rather have the limerance back
Thank you for this insight! ❤
Very good info!
very insightful
Hey guys got a question.
Was with a dismissive avoidant after he’s been single for almost 7 years. He didn’t want to commit so I broke up. He rebound with a girl and was with her for one year. He committed to being in a relationship but ran when marriage came up.
Is it possible I’ve been his phantom ex? And is it possible he’ll reach out to me now? Because my ego would like that very much 😅
He’ll keep running from one relationship to the next, repeating the toxic cycle. DA’s are incapable of being in intimate relationships unless and until they get help to heal them from their fears of intimacy. You are better off without him. Are you his phantom ex? You won’t know bc they don’t open up to tell you. Eyes forward.
As a DA, I'd advise you to move on sis.
Ummmm no, unfortunately I don't think so. You've got a soul tie if you have been ruminating on this notion. Most men will realize what they had when their ex moves on & is doing well, but that's no reason to be sitting & wondering if that is what he's actually doing. Enjoy your life! He doesn't deserve you if he can drop you & carry on without you. You deserve someone who prioritizes you. Take care!
Move on if he has been with her for more than 6 months it's no longer a rebound..
It's possible. And you know best what you have been to him and what he's been to you. I know how hard all those doubts and ruminations are. So, these 'move on' advices are well ment: but what you need is self assurance. Your perception of the situation is right and can be trusted. Doesn't matter if he validates this perception with his words. Some people cannot validate anything.
So, the next step should be the question what to do now? What do YOU wanna do? Try again? Call him (if he rejects you, that's life, do not make it mean anything about yourself). Or do YOU wanna leave it alone? Is he worth ist? Will it help you to grow or hinder you? It's not about him. It's about you. Wish you the best!
Thank you so much.
Is it possible to have a mild limerence or would that just be a crush
Will a DA have a fantasy romance with a dead spouse? She died many years ago from cancer at a young age.
This is interesting...my DA's wife died of Covid and it seems he has immortalised her as the ideal wife, lover, partner...whenever we have issues he posts up romantic stuff about her as the ideal & best partner ever....we just broke up.
Thanks!
Awesome!
Oooff, that one hit me good! 😅
Mental Health TH-cam is like:
I find a new disorder every week that I have
Actually I feel pretty much mentioned here. I am a heavy daydreamer and I had many crushes in the past and present where I was more into the subconscious dream relationship rather than being in the present with the crush.
That explains so much about my ex
Oof. This one hurts, lol.
its true they’re attracted to this but it suck’s bc they avoid it anyway and don’t commit even if u display this
This must be all other DAs except mine 😅
DAs need help
When and if they recognize their problem they look for how to fix it. The problem is suffering and struggling and not understanding why
Thai shoudl be taught at school
DA shouldn’t even be in a relationship!!! Seriously!
Stop the judgement
This is not judgement. This is fact 🤷🏻
Thank you ❤