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The true finale of Madoka Magica (for now.) Basically, the entire gang is together for who knows why and everything goings terribly wrong like 6 times over. So that is good. Honestly a banger movie though I can't even pretend. Holy quintet action goes hard
Thanks for watching!
0:00 intro, recap
6:35 movie start
1:56:50 movie end
2:00:07 post credit scene
2:01:15 talk about it - บันเทิง
The reason Homura doesn't want to tell the others is because of past experience in other timelines, Mami is mentally fragile especially when the truth gets revealed to her , Sayaka is stubborned and butts heads with Homura often, and Madoka needs to be protected at all costs and tends to sacrifice herself to much for Homura's liking. Kyoko and Homura however share a sense of pragmatism and are both survivalists in their own way , which allows them to not enter in conflict as often , since their is common ground.
Homura's wish was to become strong enough to save Madoka. During their final conversation in the garden, Homura realizes that Madoka's true nature was not to make the sacrifice, she did it because she was the only one that could, not because she wanted to save everyone. This is why Homura is now strong enough to rewrite the universe to save Madoka.
Bebe's human name is Nagisa, she was a little girl, 8 or 9 y/o, whose mom was in the hospital, about to die. She wished to be able to eat her favorite cheese dessert with her mom one last time, but as soon as her wish came true, she realized that she could have just wished to save her mom. She fell immediately into despair and became a witch without being able to eat her cheese. This is why she chomps on Mami's head, because it reminds her of cheese.
Cool detail, when Homura asks Mami for more tea, you can see how Mami drops her yellow ribbon as she walks behind Homura in order to not be frozen in time.
About Nagisa, that's wrong, she actually wished for a cake her mother loved just so she coudn't eat it, because of the abuses she did to her.
Nagisa says she chose a cheesecake instead of healing her mother intentionally, and then a witch proceeds to attack the hospital her mother was (oh, and her mother verbally abused her daughter because she had a very advanced level of schizophrenia).
When Nagisa sees her dying mother asking for her help she just sits and stands silent, becoming a witch soon after.
All this can be seen at her special event from the magia record game, it's the darkest event really.
@@valef0rt360 that's the Nagisa from Magia Record, which is (minor spoilers)...
... another Universe
That Nagisa from Magia Record does not immediately become a witch and eats Mami.
@@willpina The only official description of her wish is that one by the way, and that special event didn't intend to follow the universe's story, if you play/watch it closely, after all she dies in this event. She doesnt even appear in the main story of the game, only in side story fanservices like this that for now is canon
And btw, every wish from the game remained as their first and official appearances, they didn't change any wishes, even from the side storys like oriko. And if they were to change Nagisa's, her mother still abused her and had that level of schizophrenia, so it wouldn't change that much
That scene with Kyoka and Sayaka man.. It gets me every time, following up with seeing Oktavia using Kyoka's spear in place of its own sword, It's perfect.
Everytime i watch this movie I notice new things. It's insane the amount of references this movie has. Like the little guys screaming fort, da (gone, back) is a game Freud noticed a kid playing. The kid would throw a reel with wool around it and be happy when his mom would bring it back. This is the joy of getting something or someone back after the pain of losing it. Now notice the colour of the wool around it in the movie. Pink like madoka. It's also masochistic in that you create your own pain. And this movie has so much more.
This is just "love is beyond good and evil" made a movie.
Notice that in the end
Mami likes tea
Homura broke a Cup of Tea
Kyoko hates waste of food
Homura asks for a apple ( Kyoko's favorite food ) and let fall into the river with no purpose
That is for show that they are no more friends or allies anymore.
8:41 “Welcome to cinema”, a nice touch for people who were actually watching this in the cinema!
One thing I forgot about:
I don’t know if it was part of some original plan, or a change of plan, but Homura’s VA went back to re-record her lines for the final act (from when Homura grabbed Madogami’s hand onwards). Because of this “Homura’s First Take” is available as a special feature on the Blu-Ray. It’s fun to nerd-out at the subtle differences between the two versions.
that is hilarious when you think about Homura's entire time gimmick of redoing things what a great special feature
Somebody went to the trouble of cutting together a comparison video:
th-cam.com/video/nJMWu9QJwnU/w-d-xo.html
Madoka's original wish in the original timeline was to save the black cat that appears in the anime's OP according to one of the Drama CDs I believe.
I think it was a Blu-Ray extra (I watched the DVDs though 😢)
Ohhh.. So her wishes have always been ones of love, I guess!!
Homura use Kyubey as a container for all curses in this new world, that's why she said that she still need him
Poor Kyubey lol
Kyubey fucked around and found out :)
OKAY ANOTHER NOVEL COMMENT INBOUND YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. IT'S EVEN LONGER THIS TIME ISTG I COULD GO ON ABOUT THIS SERIES FOR HOURS.
I will forever take any opportunity to brag about having seen this in theaters when it toured North America in 2013, it was incredible. I remember the total silence of the theater as the movie ended lmao, people weren't even chatting amongst themselves as we left. This movie just fucks with you so much. It was amazing experiencing it on the big screen, but it actually took me a really long time to warm up to the story tbh, the ending just hurt for so long. How could they do this to HomuHomu :(
Every time someone reacts to Rebellion, it feels like there's a safety net of commenters waiting and ready to catch the person watching and help clear up (or add to) the mind-fuckery that just happened to them. We've all been there lmao. But man I was grinning like an idiot throughout this entire reaction, this was a really fun reaction, and I love to see that you're on board with it from first viewing. It's a really divisive movie in the fandom.
There were a few comments I made on your reaction to the original series where I was alluding to Rebellion, but didn't want to spoil anything.
- Like it being important that there are things about the human soul that Kyubey still doesn't understand. Love. And he got wrecked for it :)
- In episode 10, you called attention to the fact that Homura, when her soul gem is completely dark and she's seconds from witching out with Madoka, wants to destroy the world and wipe all traces of sadness and evil from the world. I shrieked (internally) because I hadn't made the fucking connection to Rebellion. That's what I was thanking you for lmaooo!
- When I commented on ep 12 pondering what it would take to get an actual "good" ending. Homura gave everyone what they wanted. Kyouko and Sayaka are together, Mami has Nagisa/Bebe, Madoka has her family and friends again. Kyubey's species is enslaved and taking on the role of Magical Girls in dealing with humanity's curses :)
This is the price we the viewers pay to get that "happy" ending.
I started typing this comment while there were only 8 comments, so I may be repeating some other comments by the time I get around to posting it lmfao, forgive me! But here are some "cool and fun" details!
1. Sayaka can summon her witch form using any body of water - including blood.
2. The entire movie is rife with suicide motifs with Homura. Aside from the obvious face-shooting and cliff jumping:
a. Her little transformation dance in the beginning has her pantomiming "begging/pleading" when she crouches down on hands and knees, immediately followed by "death" with her arms crossed over her chest. The weird witch runes flashing in the background also say "I kill myself". All those runes can be translated, you can find them all here, they add an interesting layer of symbolism to the movie, considering a lot of them are Homura's witch talking wiki.puella-magi.net/Runes:Rebellion
b. In Homura's new demon world, we see her familiars jumping off a cliff after taking their shoes off, which is a common metaphor for suicide in Japan.
3. Those weird doll-like creatures are some of Homura's familiars, called Clara Dolls. There's 15 of them, although we only see 14. They play the role of mourners at Homura's funeral procession, but instead they all just mock her. They all have names and descriptions you can find here wiki.puella-magi.net/Rebellion_Material_Book#Witches_Artwork pretty heartbreaking when you think these names are all traits Homura sees within herself. No one hates Homura more than Homura herself.
4. The chairs in a field imagery (like when Homura is in the process of witching out, and also in the post-credit scene) is something that was actually carried over from the movie versions. It's in a very adorable moment in the OP of the movies. Idk if you intend to watch the movie versions at all/any time soon, but here's a link to the OP if you're interested in seeing it th-cam.com/video/CMVmuUxRofs/w-d-xo.html So when Homu is sitting on one chair on the edge of a cliff, leaning over to a second half that isn't there, it's... sad :(
5. The ED, which is so fucking good I agree, has a tempo of 60bpm, the exact time of a ticking clock.
Again, poor Homura. It's up for debate on whether what she did was good or bad, but she certainly views herself as the villain for what she did. She recognizes that she has violated Madoka's autonomy, and calls herself a demon for it. So she's really leaning into her role, playing up the bad guy act to an almost absurd degree. Even her familiars are throwing tomatoes at her performance.
Let's not forget though, that at least part of her actions were necessitated by Kyubey's bullshit. If Homura had just let herself be taken into the Law of Cycles, what was stopping Kyubey from trying the exact same tactic on another magical girl? Kyubey even said that they were planning to continue studying Madoka. At some point, it was going to work, and Madoka's wish and sacrifice would've been completely wasted. Homura had to do something. Her methods are where things get a little grey, and are influenced by the conversation she has with Madoka in the flower field. In my opinion, I think Homura views herself as incredibly selfish, but she also says that she doesn't care if Madoka is at odds with her if it means Madoka can live in a world where she can be happy. It's complicated. And I wouldn't discount the idea that Catholic-raised Homura experiences some internalized homophobia for her feelings toward Madoka.
OKAY I THINK I'M SPENT. OMFG THIS IS LONG. Thanks again for sharing your reaction, this has been a really fun one to follow! Now we wait for the next installment. I'm so scared.
Kyubey messed with teenage girls. That was his first mistake
"I will forever take any opportunity to brag about having seen this in theaters when it toured North America in 2013, it was incredible."
WHAT. I am actually so jealous that would've been amazing. Omw to rent a theater. Wait no joke I should do that and do a theater reaction where I record alone in a theater that would be so funny
"Every time someone reacts to Rebellion, it feels like there's a safety net of commenters waiting and ready to catch the person watching and help clear up (or add to) the mind-fuckery"
HAHA actually so true.
"In episode 10, you called attention to the fact that Homura, when her soul gem is completely dark and she's seconds from witching out with Madoka, wants to destroy the world and wipe all traces of sadness and evil from the world."
holy crap the foreshadowing is actually insane. That is banger material right there.
"Homura gave everyone what they wanted..."
I really hope this is true but I just feel like it isn't. Maybe I haven't finished my 5 stages of grief yet though. Like, we have a Madoka who says she would never abandon her family (which expresses that she doesn't want to sacrifice herself perhaps) but then we have God Madoka who seemed really content with her situation. I considered God Madoka as Madoka doing what she always wanted (purpose, helping people, etc.) But man idk.
This fractured Madoka we see, with her God-self being separated, doesn't seem sustainable. Even Homura says that she might have Madoka as an opponent down the line or something similar. Also, Homura self-defining as evil and as a demon doesn't really seem that good for her either. The "good" part of the ending doesn't even come from Homura wanting any good to happen either. It feels like a byproduct of her selflish Madoka desires (though perhaps her enslavement or whatnot of Kyubey hivemind is her trying to do some good or something, idk.) Basically, i dont trust the good ending. Homura feels like a selflish not good person right now. I miss God Madoka and Angel Sayaka. Pain
"1. Sayaka can summon her witch form using any body of water - including blood. "
Ooooh so is this why Sayaka stabbed herself? To summon HER WITCH FORM? THAT IS SO GOOD I cannot believe it. Sayaka's self-destructive character traits being used like that is so good. Sayaka witch form is perhaps my favorite thing they did. Such a great concept for so many reasons. Shadow self moment
"3. Those weird doll-like creatures are some of Homura's familiars, called Clara Dolls..."
Wow that extra info is crazy. Some of those lines are crazy too. Here's some personal favorites
"These dolls play house with causality decided by entanglement"
"The eighth to appear is Jealousy. Spellbound, she looks up towards the heavens. “Let's prepare a box. I want to lock away that radiance forever.” These dolls are a meeting of colors. They are not empty."
"These dolls make fun of the witch's self-mutilation."
"Walking unsteadily comes the twelfth one, Stupidity. She goes out of her way to go around to everyone and tells them a story she heard from a bird some time ago. “I heard this story from the Goddess. She's a beautiful and radiant goddess. I'm sure she'll love us too.”"
"The fifteenth and last one to come is Love. Nobody has seen this Devil yet. The night is not yet over. She will not end the night again. We are the mourners, the theater troupe of this mortal world."
HOLY. These are so good. Homura self hatred spits bars. The idea of a funeral after a suicide in which the attending mock the deceased is really powerful. What a beautiful, horrible, and tragic way to describe how Homuras feels about her life
"4."
is pretty crazy as well. I'll likely watch the movie 1 and 2 on my own time to appreciate em. That is good additional context
"5."
The BPM of 60 is too powerful
"In my opinion, I think Homura views herself as incredibly selfish, but she also says that she doesn't care if Madoka is at odds with her if it means Madoka can live in a world where she can be happy. It's complicated. And I wouldn't discount the idea that Catholic-raised Homura experiences some internalized homophobia for her feelings toward Madoka."
I think that Homura continuing to keep Madoka splintered is completely selfish. You make a good point about how Homura needed to do this to Kyubey to stop it from happening again (which it would've.) Though that again feels like a byproduct to Homura's actual goals of getting Madoka for herself. Though I'm basing this largely out of how Homura describes it which, as you mention, is potentially very very biased negatively due to her hating herself. Really complex spot for her. The internalized homophobia part is really interesting as well. That is a completely new angle I didn't even know about. It just doesn't look good how Homura views herself as selfish and evil and yet still continues doing these things. I'll have to continue braining it out
I am scared and excited for the next movie as well. Thanks for the juicy thoughts I appreciate it!
🎉
I stumbled across your reaction after re-watching my favorite series again (I've done this maybe 20 times again and again since 2013 ahaha) and I had a blast going through it with your commentary! As a solid "Homura did nothing wrong" supporter, your very "on the fence" thought process during the post discussion was pretty refreshing. I've seen plenty of Homura haters the moment that scene happens, and although I don't interact with them, it makes me a bit sad to see LOL. After reading through some replies here and some have really hit the nail on Homura's motivations to do what she did. I love how complicated this series is, and it's hard to discern who was truly "in the right."
As another commenter mentioned, YES. Even if Homura decided to go with Madoka into the Cycle, Kyubey would still reattempt the experiment with another Magical Girl instead. Follow that up with what Madoka said to her during the second flower garden scene (when Madoka is braiding her hair), what Madoka said to Homura was what Madoka WOULD say if the events of the anime never happened. Of course, the answer changed to a more self-sacrificing choice due to everything in eps 1-12. With those separate conversations with Madoka and Kyubey, Homura sought out another means of saving her from that fate of being controlled one day; aka becoming Homucifer (fan-name for Demon Homura).
Madoka and Homura are really great foils for each other too. In episode 12, when Madoka finally makes her wish to save the Magical Girls, she made a wish in complete defiance to Homura's wish and desire. Madoka knew at this point what Homura's been fighting for, and yet she chose to go against it and make that wish to better everyone else's lives to fulfill one of her own desires; the desire to help and be useful. It did, in fact, better everyone else...but Homura thought otherwise. On the other hand, Homura's wish had always been to save Madoka. And in that final plot-twist sequence of stealing away Madoka's human form, she defied the wish that Madoka made and rewrote the universe yet again. All of this to grant her own desire; her love for Madoka. That's one takeaway from these two girls; their wishes are just unfortunately always going to be at odds from one another. One of extreme selflessness, and one of extreme selfishness. But they both have one thing in common: their wish doesn't consider the feelings of the other.
It's hard to say that Homura is being ENTIRELY selfish with her decision. Sure yeah, she realistically just wants to live life with Madoka forever, but we can see from her conversation with Madoka that might not end up happening as well as she'd hoped for. As someone already said here, it's clear as day that Homura also really hates herself. She hates the role that she's pushed herself to play. But she knows that if she doesn't do this, Madoka will be in danger again. So she plays herself off as the opposite of "good" all while her real feelings continue to assault her while she puts on a "performance" to Sayaka (her familiars throwing tomatoes at her). I honestly consider Homura fulfilling the "tragic hero" role while trying to pretend and act out the "irredeemable villain" role to everyone around her. I love this series so much.
I could go on FOREVER talking about Madoka Magica. It's just such amazing storytelling and the visual storytelling is phenomenal. And with Walpurgisnacht: Rising FINALLY coming soon, I'm so scared of what the team has in store for our Quintet.
I suspect that at the end the shot of Kuybey implies that it now has emotion - which was a mental disorder to them.
Great to see a reactor really enjoy this movie, I did but a lot either fall into "cash grab" or "destroyed our perfect ending"... me I loved the natural feel to how the characters developed from the series. Can't wait to see where they take it next.
mmm that could be interesting. Homura abuses Kyubey enough to make Kyubey develop emotion thus creating new conflict or something. I kind of like it, could be a cool scenario
this movie is so good. I can understand why people who really liked the original ending would be upset. I liked the OG ending but felt it was missing a bit of oomph that this movie absolutely had. Next movie bout to be fire whenever that comes out
55:51 very late I know, but the reason why they look at each other like this is that the fight could've ended here. We were both in range to kill each other easily but we were friends, and neither wanted to hurt the other. That's why Homura stopped time, so they could both dodge the bullets.
god I love this movie so much, purely because homura is my favourite character and the series didn't manage to complete her character arc (and this movie did it so much justice). It's amazing how her love for madoka was so selfless that it looped back around to being selfish and ended up completely disregarding madoka's wish - (someone needs to teach homura about consent!) - so basically the entire universe is locked inside Homura's personal "demonic" labyrinth where she's imprisoned the human aspect of madoka so she can live as a regular person, and also manipulating everyone else's memories so they don't interfere. Afaik magical girls still exist... though I'm not sure if madoka is still one (Sayaka and Kyoko definitely are cos they still have the rings/coloured nails, and wraiths still exist). I'm very excited for the next movie to pick up where this one left off, which should be coming out next year!! Great reaction as always, also I can't believe you called me out at 1:58:50 looking over at my second monitor where I very much was playing the movie synced up alongside LMAO
this movie is so good. I am praying that Sayaka and Kyoko will clutch the entire series out on the next movie. That'll be super fun to watch.
also you have no idea how glad I am that the other monitor bit actually worked that has made my day
The interesting thing about the Mami vs Homura fight, is that you can easily see either side winning, really. Mami is a skilled fighter, and her magic is generally more versatile, due to her ribbons allowing her to make different weapons and maneuver easily. Homura, meanwhile, only has a very narrow specialization with her magic, but her level of power in those two specializations is absurd, with her timestop in particular being a massive advantage.
Plus, the difference in experience is...odd. Homura is far more experienced but a lot of it was with the same enemies over the course of a month, which is a bit less valuable at first glance, though the gap in experience is notable. Mami, meanwhile, was a magical girl for around two years, roughly fighting a higher variety of opponents, but a smaller timeframe overall. Plus, Homura's goals required extensive planning, and fighting Walpurgisnacht, which is basically a natural disaster. (and, something I have a suspicion she never would have won against, simply because I have a personal headcanon that Walpurgisnacht has extremely high physical defenses, but is more vulnerable to magical attacks, so Homura would always be at a disadvantage, given all her offensive potential is physical.)
Both pulled out underhanded tricks as well. Mami with her ribbon clone, something that Homura doesn't seem to have known about. However, Homura also pulled a trick with her faked suicide, using her knowledge of the true nature of soul gems to force Mami to panic, which if Mami didn't make her paranoid switch with the ribbon clone after the end of the fight, would have won the fight for her right there.
I personally think they're about equally matched, though I do think Homura would win slightly more often, since she's been active longer, and her magic is such a unique thing to face, that even if you KNOW what it does, a single usage of it can entirely throw a fight's momentum in her favor. Not to mention the fact she tends to steal......everything. And if we counted what she gained after the original anime's ending, her bow and wings, that plus her shield gives far more coverage than she had before, which would push it solidly in her favor in my opinion. But honestly, Mami and Homura, and even Kyoko, are roughly equal overall, each excelling in specific areas, but not being particularly WEAK in any areas either. When you extrapolate their abilities and fighting styles, it's fascinating to think about, in my opinion.....and I've gone on a massive tangent. (I also give a disclaimer in that I'm definitely biased, as Homura is my favorite of the five, with Kyoko shortly after as a close 2nd, though I do like Mami as well. I've also gone far off the beaten path, but that generally happens three days in with no sleep, not of your own choice, I suppose.)
I loved the video, and it's nice to see another PMMM reaction. I always find them a treat! Another interesting thing about the movie, is that the final battle between Homulily (Homura's Witch), and the other four, is a battle of belief in what's the right way. Homura plans to sacrifice herself to make the Incubator's experiment invalid, without a finish, keeping Madoka's secrets safe, at least for the time being. The other four meanwhile, want to break Homura out of the field, saving her and putting a stop to the experiment, even if it reveals that Madoka IS the Law of Cycles. The interesting thing is that both methods invalidate the experiment, at least to a degree, with outside interference from a third party, though the latter does give away some information, it does not let the experiment reach completion, and in fact eradicates the Incubators observing the experiment, at the very least, meaning the information they gathered has a good chance of being lost. Homura's 'solution' of being killled by Mami and Kyoko, two people she sees as equals, does mean less of Madoka's secrets are leaked, but it's not really rational. But this makes sense, given at this point, she was already most of the way to becoming a witch, even before she forced her curse to fruition. Homura probably wasn't even ABLE to think logically by the end, and that, to her shattered, near-witch mind, was the best solution she could think of in her desperation, despair, and anger.
This doesn't even mention the plethora of trust issues she has with most of the cast. Mami, while skilled, is fragile mentally, something Homura has seen personally firsthand, and seen it go REALLY bad, REALLY fast. Sayaka is absurdly stubborn, and Madoka is too nice for her own good (literally, as the discussion between Homura and Madoka does clearly state that Madoka would not have chosen the path she took if she felt their was another option, and that it wasn't the path that she wanted). Kyoko, however, is already jaded, and is surprisingly stable mentally. She has her own issues, don't get me wrong, but she is the most capable of dealing with unknown and disturbing issues and information logically and rationally, at least compared to the others, and is pragmatic as hell, a trait she shares with Homura. Their personalities mesh pretty well, meaning they can work together with by far the least friction and issues.
This movie truly felt like the true finale indeed, it completes the series that came before it, and it's a must watch to get the full story of the characters. But the creative way they execute this whole thing is off the charts, there so much to see and analyze and catch on a rewatch. This movie is easily on my top favorites of all anime, if not number one, it's really that perfect for how it continued the story.
Wait until you see the next one
Gen Urobuchi greatest work. I love this movie man.
Regarding Homura pulling the trigger, you are forgetting that magical girls don't die from anything as long as the soul gem is intact and they have enough magic to heal the wound. Mami should have known that too, but in the moment of seeing her friend put a gun to her head and pull the trigger she panicked. Just a few minutes prior, Homura pointed out "Mami Tomoe always had the softest heart of any of us". And as soon as Homura realized she couldn't brute force a fair fight, Homura decided to exploit that. Homura needed to trick Mami into making the ribbon physical so she could destroy the connection and freeze Mami in time. In the anime it is unclear if Homura merely grazed the side of her head, but in the manga it is clear that she shot straight through her own skull, aiming for the ribbon.
yeah I panicked alongside Mami haha. To be fair, I don't know if this Mami is actually aware of the soul gem housing their souls yet. I am guessing that she actually doesn't know about that and genuinely thought Homura was going to die.
With Homura at least, I am curious how much the bullet to the brain would damage her. I mean, is Homura using the "distancing" thing that Sayaka does? (that reduces pain.) If not, that is still pretty debilitating. Really clever and sinister move from Homura though, you gotta respect the morbid creativity if nothing else.
That manga differnce is exceptional. Shooting through your own skull is so metal. In that case at least, it seems that Homura is likely able to distance herself enough to not get incapcitated by the headshot (though I'd have to read that part of the manga to really know.)
Cool info though, thank you!
Ah yes, my favorite story about the making of God and Licufer - Madoka Magica Rebellion! Or, the making of Godoka and Homucifer, if I may.
It is a really interesting way to look at Homura - a fallen angel who defies God. And does so not because of hate, but out of her immense love.
Madokami and Akumura
I also really enjoyed this movie, though I think I like the ending of the show a tiny bit more. However, then ending of the movie makes perfect sense, as well.
The reason why Homura did what she did at the end is the conversation she had with Madoka earlier. Homura could sense that that Madoka was real somehow, and therefore took her words seriously: Madoka said that she would never of her own volition do something where she had to basically sacrifice herself and disappear forever. That's when Homura realized that Madoka did what she did at the end of the show only because she felt she had to.
So Homura did the (for her) logical thing: she tried to make a world where Madoka was truly happy. To do that, she split Madoka into two (a divine side and a mortal side) and somehow remade the universe again where Madoka's mortal half is happy.
Funnily enough in this ending basically everyone seems to actually happy. Madoka is living a normal life with her friends and family, Sayaka is there having a second chance at a human life (with Kyouko perhaps?), Kyouko is with Sayaka, and Mami and Bebe seem really happy too. And Homura can enjoy her life with Madoka as well, and in the background makes the Incubators take care of some stuff while torturing them. In many ways, that is a happy ending no? :D
Mami vs Homura was a great scene. Homura's timestop does not work for things that she touches or that are touching her - Mami uses her ribbons to always touch Homura in order to not be time-stopped. I think one can see that before as well during a fight against a nightmare - Mami basically connects to Homura and other girls with her ribbons, so they are all able to act during Homura's timestop. Homura's suicide bluff's goal was hitting the ribbon connecting the two of them with a bullet, severing the connection so that Mami was caught in the timestop. However, Mami had apparently foreseen something like that, as Homura was just hitting ribbons in Mami-shape at the end.
Also, I think another sequel movie was announced some time ago (called Walpurgisnacht: Rising I think), I cannot wait for that!
Last I heard the next movie was supposed to come out this year. Though I haven't heard much on it since.
Ok here’s my theory
There’s a purple geese or a swan, idk, at the scene where Homura apologised to Madoka?
Here’s my theory
The swan (assuming it is a swan) might either be Homura’s regrets or her humanity.
And when it sheds a tear and freaking dies, it might be the last strand of humanity being gone…?
Or as Homura stated, she can’t remember anything
So that swan might stand for both her regrets and her last bits of memories. (Other than Madoka, I’m pretty sure she remembers her, maybe only as a person she ought to protect)
Here’s a reason for this
The swan’s tears might symbolise sorrowness and mainly, Homura’s regretfulness. I’m not sure what the purple means. But it seems so to me
Dang, I really wrote a comment so long that it doesn't fit in a single youtube comment, so I'm splitting my comment between here and a reply to this comment.
10:25 Yeah... the opening of Rebellion feels like a bit of an acid trip
18:30 Moemura, but more confident. Also yes the fandom calls original timeline cute and shy Homura, Moemura.
20:00 It is a well established fact that Homura is the biggest gay disaster to ever exist.
21:20 Yeah, the anime heavily implies she's from a super rich and traditional family, which is why she's always leaving early for things like piano lesson, tea ceremony, etc.
28:38 As long as you're touching Homura in some way the time stop doesn't effect you, so Mami uses her ribbons to keep everyone connected to each other so that they are unaffected by Homura's time stop.
30:15 I'll amend my earlier comment, the entire first quarter of the movie is an acid trip.
30:40 Desserts in general but yes, cheesecake specifically.
40:05 Moemura and Kyoko is weird, but Homura and Kyoko actually isn't that random, of the Holy Quintet Kyoko is the most alike to Homura. Obviously there are key differences, but Kyoko is the only one jaded enough to not be put off by Homura's cold practicality, at least not until her conflict with Sayaka starts to wear down her walls and makes her stop writing off humanity.
53:38 Fun fact, Mami put that ribbon on Homura at 51:17 when Homura had asked for more tea. From the start of the conversation Mami was suspicious of Homura due to the sudden change in appearance and demeanor, which only grew when Homura asked for more tea despite still having tea. Also yes, Mami can make her ribbons invisible and intangible, also yes she is broken and keeps getting more broken.
54:24 Not out of juice, Homura can hold it for however long she wants, she just had no point in keeping time frozen since Mami is unaffected by it while touching her through the ribbon, and tossing Bebe/Charlotte is pointless if she will just freeze right as she leaves her hand.
56:12 In my opinion, Homura and Mami are even, Homura has more experience due to the time loops, but Mami is still a veteran magical girl of several years and has a powerful and ridiculously versatile ability compared to Homura's time stop (which Mami can counter with her ribbons). Like how this battle ends, the victor is entirely determined by who has the better trick up her sleeve, Homura tried to bait Mami with her ignorance about the nature of Soul Gems but that ultimately couldn't do anything about the ribbon puppet.
58:45 Only faked in the fact Homura knows that Magical Girls cant die as long as their Soul Gem is intact and they have the magic to heal, but that's the only way it was faked, the bullet DID go through Homura's head.
1:01:12 Technically it's Nagisa Momoe, the Magical Girl who became Charlotte (or Bebe as she's called now).
1:05:50 Only way Homura could've won is if she knew it was a ribbon puppet and not actually Mami, which she would've had no way to know until she shot. Even a Soul Gem shot wouldn't have mattered as it was all ribbon and not actually Mami.
1:17:35 The exact issue she has isn't revealed to my knowledge, but she has some sort of heart disease that makes physical activity very hard on her and keeps her in the hospital for extended periods of time. After becoming a magical girl however she can just use her magic to heal it (like she can do with her eye sight).
1:29:00 Awaken the final Witch, Homulilly The Nutcracker Witch with the Nature of Self-Sufficiency. Its gallant form, which once split many nuts, is now useless. Without any other purpose, this witch's last wish is her own execution. However, a mere decapitation will not clear away the witch's sins. This foolish witch will forever remain in this realm, repeating the procession to her execution.
As it's important I will also bring up all of Homulilly's Familiars.
First is the Clara Dolls, the children of the false city who play the role of mourners. They fake cry to liven up the funeral procession, the ones who are present are Pride, Pessimism, Liar, Cold-Heartedness, Selfishness, Slander, Blockhead, Jealousy, Laziness, Vanity, Cowardice, Stupid-Looking, Inferiority, and Stubbornness, with the final one, Love, not yet arriving. Their power is a match for Magical Girls.
Second is the Lotte, the tin soldiers whose duty is to mete out punishment, they organize the procession for the witch sent to the guillotine. Their bulky heads are serious and unyielding, and do not heed anything the witch says.
Third is Luiselotte, her duty is to eliminate rats. She hunts the wretched white rats on her mount, a decaying tooth. She also helps the other tin warriors get rid of those who would dare to interrupt their funeral procession.
Fourth is Liese, the bearer of bad news. They are stuffed birds who announce the beginning of the funeral procession. They receive food from the children of the false city and follow their orders to a certain extent, but their intelligence is on par with the average bird, their headgear impairs their vision, and they tend to ram into moving objects.
Fifth and finally is Lilia, nutcracker dolls who chew and crush unwanted foreign subtances in place of the witch who can no longer crack any nuts.
A general theme of these familiars is the fact they act independently of Homulilly for the sake of her execution.
Also in case you didn't put it together, Rebellion takes place almost immediately after the final scene of the anime when Homura takes on that horde of wraiths in the desert, those Witch-y looking wings was meant to symbolize her pushing herself to her limits and starting to become a witch due to the fight, however in the brief gap between that scene and Rebellion is the Incubators establishing the Isolation Field around her to prevent Madoka from taking her away.
1:33:55 There is probably some way to spin it in universe, but the decision to use Charlotte probably comes from the fact that an entirely new witch wouldn't fit so it had to be one of the witch's from the anime, and Charlotte is both the most memorable normal witch (obviously Walpurgisnacht and Kriemhild Gretchen are more memorable but abnormal) and the only one with a more compact and cute form.
1:36:48 No that's still Oktavia, just in Rebellion she has both a Sword like Sayaka, and a Spear like Kyoko, the mermaid witch is Oktavia's witch Type. Kyoko's Witch is much different, I can go into details about it (and Mami's) if you want since we were given information about them even if they never appear in the anime and movie.
1:38:41 The important of this short image right here is grossly overlooked by a lot of people, Madoka's arm is absolutely covered in scars, which only reinforces the ideas that Homura had building in her head since the "I had a dream about you dying" conversation with Madoka. Homura firm believes that Madoka never wanted this, she just forced herself to make the decision and is now endlessly suffering for it, so seeing Madoka's scarred arm only reinforces that idea and further drives Homura to the decision she makes after being broken free from the Isolation Field.
1:39:22 It's a Witch Labyrinth remember, so as usual most of the scenery tends be non-sensical because logical reality is ignored in Labyrinths, everything is non-sensical and symbolic. So weird imagery like this is just suppose to be non-sensical symbolism for Homura's mental state which rapidly jumps between the her desire to die to protect Madoka, and her desire to be with Madoka forever.
1:39:50 The main point was just to shatter the Isolation Field, wiping out the nearby Incubators to prevent them from trying anything was just a side benefit.
1:41:48 A bit pointless to reply to that since I already pretty much answered it in earlier parts of this comment, but yeah Bebe was always just Nagisa Momoe hiding in her witch form of Charlotte for the sake of the mission.
1:48:15 Homura/Homulilly's Familiars.
1:49:59 Somewhere in the ballpark of 8-10 years old, so anywhere from 4-6 years younger than the main cast.
1:53:13 That one's on Madoka lol, Madoka was the one who pushed for using their first names with each other right away back in the original timeline.
1:53:28 It's hard to say it's a necessary evil, Homura viewed it as such because she believed that Madoka was eternally suffering and that she didn't truly want that, so she's justified in splitting her away from the Law of the Cycle and usurping the power. In some ways Homura's world is "better" as well since the magical girl system as a whole doesn't exist, however it is built on rewriting everyone's memories and taking away their experiences as magical girls. There is also the fact that in some ways by making Madoka the transfer student she isolates Madoka and puts her in a position where, like what's going on here, Homura can insert herself as one of Madoka's "first friends" after transferring, essentially manipulating Madoka into rebuilding their friendship. That's not even counting the fact that Homura is tearing away a pretty major part of Madoka's current identity while believing that she can just go back to being the normal human girl Madoka.
The post credit scene is odd, but basically it's a continuation of what Homura said to Kyubey while reality was restructuring (again), she is forcing Kyubey to shoulder the curses of humanity to replace the Magical Girl system, after all Magical Girls are necessary if the curses are forced onto Kyubey and thus cant form Witches/Wraiths/Nightmares. Those aren't his dying eyes, the fuzziness are the curses themselves.
2:01:58 The window is suppose to be the Law of the Cycle or something, as during the end of the fight with Homulilly those are the windows that Madoka's hands go through to reach out to Homura. It being tied shut is likely suppose to be symbolism for Homura tearing the "core" of the Law of the Cycle (Madoka) away and thus locking it away from actively doing anything. It probably still prevents the formation of Witches, but probably doesn't offer salvation to Magical Girls as that was Madoka not the Law/her Wish, fortunately there aren't Magical Girls anymore anyways to our knowledge.
2:03:58 It was most likely just the desert after she fought the horde of Wraiths from the ending scene of the anime.
2:04:15 They were trying to prove the existence of the Law of the Cycle as at that point it was only a theory, the Witch part was just a stepping stone in that.
2:06:35 To be fair, only Kyubey really cared about that and he's... well a bit preoccupied at the moment you know. Homura likely doesn't care because it's probably beyond her (or rather, Madoka's) lifespan, and Madoka doesn't remembering anything about it anymore but presumably as Madokami she did care at least a bit as she only removed the Witch part of the system and let the Incubators run wild beyond that in their attempts to combat Entropy.
2:08:13 Yeah, reality is a galaxy spanning Labyrinth now, so like, weird non-sensical symbolism is the new norm.
2:08:55 Correction, suffering. He's not dying, he's just suffering under the weight of all of humanity's curses which he had been abusing to take advantage of humanity.
2:12:20 it was entirely purposeful, Homura knew that Mami didn't know about the nature of Soul Gems and would genuinely think Homura would die if a bullet went through her head. She was betting on Mami not actually wanting to kill her and thus being distracting herself with trying to "save" Homura while she can use that to position the ribbon in the path of the bullet as it exits her skull. The only thing that probably wasn't purposeful is the fact she blew out her own eye to do it, even if she immediately regenerated it.
The tl;dr of the ending ultimately comes down to, no one is really sure how they should feel, the only constant is that Homura was immensely selfish with what she did. Beyond that though the community is super divided about whether Homura is horrible for doing it, if it was good, or just neutral.
Also, while it's not nearly as insane as Madoka Magica gets, I would definitely recommend Yuki Yuna is a Hero as another magical girl anime to react to since you liked this.
At the end of the day, I think what the movie was trying to show is that there is no "good" solution or "good" ending for Magical Girls. Someone has to suffer. Either it is Madoka for having sacrificed her life as a human or it's someone else, for example Homura. There is no right answer. No one would want to become a god like Madoka. As they said in the original show, it might be a fate worse than death. I mean, it heavily depends on how well the characters of the witches are present after they are cleansed like with Sayaka, but overall, it's not something you would want to be. Madoka did it because she was the only one who could. If there was another option, she probably would have done it. You could also make a point here about how you should be careful what you wish for because even if you get it, you might not like the outcome which is a common theme among the girls. Everyone thought they wished for what they wanted but in the end, all it brought them was despair (which could be a bit planned by Kyubey if we are honest).
The point being that neither Madoka nor Homura are truly right. You can make arguments for both sides. I saw people arguing that Homura took it upon herself to decide for Madoka, but just because she knows that Madoka would tell her what she always did. I think, if Homura really wanted to control Madoka, she could have just made a world where they are already best friends. And not one where they have to find each other again. Furthermore, Homura already accepted the fact that Madoka would probably hate her at some point and isn't even denying it. So I don't think she is really trying to control Madoka. She just thinks that Madoka at least earned the right to have a human life with her friends (and obviously Homura in particular) before she has to spend an eternity in limbo doing her god work.
And the same can be said about the worlds both of them created. I mean, it's fine that Magical Girls don't turn into witches anymore, but they still die at the end of the day and have to fight. Meaning that they will experience despair just because they are Magical Girls. On first glance, Homura's world seems kinder. While there might still be Magical Girls around (wishes still need to be fulfilled like Kyosuke's hands/arms being healed), it seems that the burden of the despair is carried by the incubators. Which sounds more fair considering what they did before (even if they can't remember). However, I think the point that the ending tries to make is that this world is highly unstable. Homura doesn't have the power of a god like Madoka. So she can't truly change the laws of the universe. At least in the grand scheme of things. Which means that she probably has to deliberately take the negative energy and transfer it to the incubators. So not only is she experiencing a lot of despair (similar to Madoka in her god form but without the real powers of a god), but she has to control the whole world since a small problem could break the whole facade. So in essence, she is like Madoka at the end of the series, a being that is basically forced to do her duties in order to keep the world intact which over time will destroy her psyche even more (which is kind of hard to imagine). And while she has the advantage that she can live with her loved one, it's hard to argue that this is a fulfilling life for her. And considering that a new movie is coming including Walpurgisnacht, it would imply that this world is actually breaking apart and with that, maybe also the little pieces that are still left of Homura's mind. Can she be saved from herself? Maybe, but considering the series, it probably requires the sacrifice of someone else. And who would that be if not Madoka again?
Just as a note, Homura DID shot herself. Magical girls are basically immortal as long as their soul gem is safe.
Though their bodies still might not work right if they don't heal it immediately. They still probably wouldn't die, but they never really cover this in any of the 9 manga.
I'd imagine if their heart got ripped out they would need another magical girl to heal her if her body went unconscious immediately like what would happen in reality lol. Normally this would mean their death because their soul gem would be broken if they didn't have someone to cover them.
Which homura heals her injury instantly. Thus why she didn't start talking like Little Nicky. xD It just also seems that healing your body doesn't take a lot of magic since it's the first thing Homura does as a magical girl. Coincidentally healing her heart like in my example, and her eyes. She wouldn't have done that though if there wasn't a reason. So they probably do suffer the consequences from their injuries.
Also would make sense why Kyouko told Sayaka she shouldn't nullify her pain if the injuries do effect them. It just seems she got lucky that the witch she fought couldn't kill her fast enough.
It is quite amazing, I think that you are one of the few youtubers that react to this movie, that I will actually watch the beginning of the movie for!
Sayaka and Bebe are more like angels for Godoka, Sayaka Miki is most like Archangel Michael who oposses Lucifer , plus Miki=Michael, Bebe is most like a Seraphim, serpent like, when she transforms to her big witch form.
I'm definitely of the opinion that Homura considers evil for what she did rather than being objectively evil (even in a "necessary evil" sense). Everyone has pretty neat lives in her world.
And I don't think Kyubey is dying. Kyubeys have died before, they didn't care any more than a cup of coffee cares if it gets cold because he doesn't have emotions. This is something new from him, I think he's feeling *suffering* for the first time because Homura has shoved all the curses of mankind into him.
It's also interesting to compare Madoka's response to Homura's question about whether supports the laws and order of the universe or supports going against them to follow her heart to what she said when she was making her wish in episode 12. In the hallway she says she opposes it but when making her wish she says " I'll destroy any rule that stands in my way. I'll change them all. This is my wish, my desire." So basically I think Madoka's experiences throughout the series changed her stance on rules and such so that when she gets her full memories back she'll be far more understanding of Homura's actions that Homura expects.
Now in terms of further Madoka content there's a bunch of spin off manga such as Puella Magi Tart Magica which tells the story of Joan of Arc in this universe. There's also a gacha game called Magia Record with an interesting story which also has an anime adaption but, unfortunately, in my opinion the adaption does not live up to the source material (and has some significant mostly negative changes from that source material). And it only adapts arc 1 of the game in any case and arc 2 of the game is more interesting but unfortunately there's no official translation of the game's arc 2 so if you want it you have to look up fan translations. Finally there's a movie #4 still in development.
I like the self-image evil Homura idea a lot that you mention. While I wouldn't call her "good" really, calling her flat evil is missing a bit of the nuance. Though its a crazy situation so I get all the different interpretations
I completely agree. Kyubey might even be developing the "mental illness" of emotion that he hates so much (the "suffering" like you say.) What that might do to Kyubey is really interesting and probably going to cause some insane stuff next movie. Poor emotionless alien monster cat hivemind
Really good point about Madoka. Pre-character arc Madoka and post-character arc Madoka have a lot of differences between them. Seeing fragmented human and god Madoka interacting is going to be really interesting in highlighting those differences. The eventual rejoining of them (that will hopefully happen) is bout to be fire
I've heard about a lot of that extra Madoka material out there. Hopefully I'll check out some of the juicer ones at some point! Thanks for the info!
There's an interesting piece of foreshadowing if you rewatch the original series opening, the final two shots of madoka and homura show them opposed to each other... And madoka looks angry. I wonder if it was always planned for madoka and homura to eventually "end up as my enemy" as homura puts it.
First off, people can move with Homura in a timestop if theyre touching her/touching something touching her. So mami ribboned her leg. Second off, Homura actually did shoot herself through the head - but, since her soulgem is not located there, she knew it would not kill her (but Mami didn't). The Mami Homura shot was a fake Mami that Mami made of her ribbons, which is actually how Mami makes her guns and bullets, too. Homura outplayed Mami for a second, only to realize that Mami had outplayed her from the start.
The pink thread represents Madoka! So Homura has captured Madoka in her soulgem. Hm.
The creatures you keep questioning are familiars! Supposedly Homura's familiars are really strong. She has two types: the creepy little kids (who asked Kyouko for an apple) and the Homura solider things.
You seem to have understood the movie a lot more than most people do, so I don't actually have much to add. You're definitely right that there's a lot of suicide imagery regarding Homura, which is, indeed, concerning. Her own familiars throw tomatos at her. There's clearly a lot of self loathing in Homura.
A lot of people complain that this is "out of character" for Homura, but I completely disagree. Throughout the whole anime, she has undercut Madoka's choices on the belief that she knows better-and yeah, its very understandable she feels this way, because Madoka literally told her to do this (not that she remembers). But to her, after years of doing this, its become her default. She knows better than Madoka; she will save her. She totally took Madoka's words in the garden as "please save me again I am not happy as a god" even though thats not really what she said. To Homura, this is not any different than what shes been doing from the start-saving Madoka from her bad choices. The whole movie leads up to this choice. "I should have never let you do that, no matter what" "no matter what I had to do, I wanted to see you again" "I won't hesitate any longer" -these are some of the statements Homura makes that make it clear shes making/contemplating making this choice.
The Law of Cycle is still operating, just without Madoka's past memories. Like Madoka said: "you'll split me in half". And like Homura said, "I only took a piece".
Incubators basically took Magical Girl's place, if I'm understanding Homura right? To handle the wraiths or whatever took their place. "Curses" is a very vague phrase so I'm not completely sure.
I think Homura's choice is a mix of selfish (wanting to be with Madoka) and selfless (wanting to save Madoka). She also, in my opinion, wanted everyone else to be happy too, even if that wasn't her priority. That's why she pairs Kyouko and Sayaka up, as well as Mami and Bebe/Nagisa. Both in her labyrinth, and in real life. Mami very much was always very lonely in the TV show, with only Kyuubey to lean on, which is why she trusted him over Homura. Pairing her up with Bebe and making her relationship with Kyuubey nonexistent serves two points: to give her a happier life, and to make it so she listens to Bebe over Kyuubey. So she doesn't have to rely on Kyuubey. You can tell in the original show, she saw Kyuubey as a friend and even called him such; but that was mainly because she had no one else. Here, she has Bebe.
Though, I also think Madoka asending to the heavens was a mix of selfish (wanting to have meaning/worth) and selfless (wanting to bring salvation to magical girls), as well. Homura and Madoka are very similar people; Homura just learned to put up a tough act. I think deep down she's still as self-hating and unsure as she always was. Which is... very sad, honestly. They both made wishes that would hurt themselves. For others. And yes, for themselves, too, but still for others. They make me so incredibly emotional.
I don't think Homura is evil, to be honest. I think she feels like she is evil, and thats why she says she is, but I don't think she is. Like she said, what motivated her was love. She loves Madoka and wants her to be happy, even if that happiness is against Madoka's will. Its morally grey for sure, and I definitely wouldn't say she did "nothing wrong" since Madoka clearly understood what she was trying to do and told her to stop when she was being ripped apart, hence it being "against her will" like I said... but no, she, in my opinion, is not evil. She just (canonly) went to catholic school before this and has very rigid ideas of good and evil because of it. Also she's been in middle school for like, years, that would fuck anyone up. Middle school is like the worst circle of hell. And all of this when she's gay, too! Too much for any girl, much less one that's been stuck at 14 for how many years? (Considering she doesn't grow during this time, I am sure that her brain is still developed to that of a 14 year old, with just a lot more memories than 14 years. Imagine that. Being stuck at 14 for so long.)
That flower garden scene is pivotal to this movie, I think. Its when Homura first starts to think to do something like this; when she first thinks that Madoka would not be happy as a god.
I agree that this movie is even better than the show! It was very controversial when it first came out, but I, personally, loved it a lot. The uncertainty of everything is something I really like about it.
I haven't watched Magia Record to be honest, but I heard it was originally a game, and the game is (supposedly) way better. The game is where Nagisa/Bebe is from/explored in more. I definitely plan to explore that game eventually, but I haven't gotten to it yet. I also hear the anime is an AU of the show, but since I haven't watched, I'm not sure of that, either.
One thing I HAVE gotten to is the different story manga's, which I definitely recommend. The first book explores the backstory of Mami and Kyouko more, and the other two books explore a doomed timeline from one of Homura's loops. I mainly recommend it for the first book; I think the backstory is really good and reveals something that recontexualizes a lot of Mami and Kyouko's lines. If you don't want to read it, and big spoilers that you should skip if you do, the twist is that Mami and Kyouko knew each other, and Mami personally witnessed Kyouko's wish going south, which is why she presumably recommends that Sayaka not make her wish for someone else. And Kyouko knowing Mami explains why she gets so pissed whenever Sayaka mentions her. [End spoilers]
Honestly, whatever you do regarding the extra content of Madoka Magica is up to you. There's a bunch of other spin off manga that I haven't even read, too, including one all about Homura I think.
"First off, people can move with Homura in a timestop if theyre touching her/touching something touching her..."
this entire battle was so 300 iq its insane. I really like the timestop gimmick playing with touch like that. That explains how their team attacks earlier kept everyone connected in the time stop (Mami throwing ribbons everywhere.) True point with Homura head-shooting not actually killing her. I am curious how damaging having your brain shot would be for a magical girl (I was guessing it would basically incapacitate most magical girls minus maaaaybe Sayaka cause she does the self-destructive pain-distancing tech so well. Though yeah still a good point.) I am amazed that Mami is actually that strong. What a legend. I then assume that the soul gem is fake as well? Though maybe not cause Mami didn't know that it housed her soul but idk. Mami OP
"The pink thread represents Madoka! So Homura has captured Madoka in her soulgem. Hm."
good that sounds healthy
"The creatures you keep questioning are familiars!"
AHhhh right witches make familiars. She really pumped out a lot of familiars holy crap.
"A lot of people complain that this is "out of character" for Homura, but I completely disagree. Throughout the whole anime, she has undercut Madoka's choices on the belief that she knows better-and yeah, its very understandable she feels this way, because Madoka literally told her to do this (not that she remembers). But to her, after years of doing this, its become her default. She knows better than Madoka; she will save her..."
Really good point I agree 100%. I think this was very very in character for Homura especially with her on the verge of/being a witch. Her habit of undercutting Madoka is also really solid and something I hadn't thought about before. Its crazy cause she "loves" Madoka but doesn't trust Madoka at all. That is a pretty toxic form of love imo (which is why it makes for such a good story)
"Incubators basically took Magical Girl's place, if I'm understanding Homura right? To handle the wraiths or whatever took their place. "Curses" is a very vague phrase so I'm not completely sure."
HAHA take that Kyubey now YOU are the magical girl. How does that feel?
"I think Homura's choice is a mix of selfish (wanting to be with Madoka) and selfless (wanting to save Madoka). She also, in my opinion, wanted everyone else to be happy too, even if that wasn't her priority. That's why she pairs Kyouko and Sayaka up..."
I am curious how much she "paired" everyone up in real life or if they just were drawn to each other due to their previous lives/fate/whatever. Still, Homura doesn't seem completely selfish or selfless to me like you are saying. It is such a mixed bag. I see Homura as starting off as pretty selfless (save Madoka) but being tainted and twisted into selfish (save Madoka so I can have her) due to time loop + lonely + all sorts of jazz. I think she does want the best for everyone but obviously prioritizes Madoka and her possesion of Madoka more than anything else. I do really like your description of the Mami/Bebe pair up though, that is very sweet
"I think deep down she's still as self-hating and unsure as she always was. Which is... very sad, honestly. They both made wishes that would hurt themselves. For others. And yes, for themselves, too, but still for others. They make me so incredibly emotional."
Madoka and Homura are so alike and so different it is crazy. I'm curious how much their differences are due to circumstance versus who they are. If Madoka did the time loop stuff, would she turn out similar to Homura? Crazy questions. The deep self-hatred and insecurity is really well done though. There are a lot of fantastic emotional moments throughout the show from so many characters its quite amazing
"She just (canonly) went to catholic school before this and has very rigid ideas of good and evil because of it. Also she's been in middle school for like, years, that would fuck anyone up. Middle school is like the worst circle of hell. And all of this when she's gay, too! Too much for any girl, much less one that's been stuck at 14 for how many years? (Considering she doesn't grow during this time, I am sure that her brain is still developed to that of a 14 year old, with just a lot more memories than 14 years. Imagine that. Being stuck at 14 for so long.)"
Yeah "evil" is a really hard label to slap onto someone, especially someone like Homura. I wouldn't call her "evil" either I don't think. Though honestly SO TRUE. No WONDER she went crazy she's got 14 year old horomones in her for like 10 extra years or whatever. That is a truly horrible fate. The gay part + the catholic part doesn't help at all either. Poor Homura
"One thing I HAVE gotten to is the different story manga's, which I definitely recommend. The first book explores the backstory of Mami and Kyouko more, and the other two books explore a doomed timeline from one of Homura's loops. I mainly recommend it for the first book;"
I might check em out, they sound mad juicy. I love Kyouko so much honestly.
Anyways, I appreciate the thoughts and ideas!
🎉
Bruh, Homura isn't gay, what? She always saw Madoka as a friend, and her love has always been platonic, almost familial. Her love for Madoka changed from admiration and caring, to one of control and self-righteousness. Like you said, she's, "always right." Her time through the loops has worn away every other part of her but her desire to save Madoka, she even says this herself in the show. Also rather than accept that Madoka came to her own conclusion, willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good and being content with it, she asks, "What did I even go through all that for?"
Her love for her friend became a desire to fulfill her wish and eventually an illogical obsession.
"She's not evil!"
Get outta here with that nonsense, she directly went against the will of her friend, someone that went and did an ultimate good, purely for her own selfish reason. She broke something that wasn't meant to be broken, all because she could. She _is_ evil, she embodies all the opposite traits that Madoka does.
@@Alyrael Um. I never said she didn't do things wrong (I personally do not like that take; I agree that she went against Madoka's choices and stripped her of her agency; madoka directly asked her to stop and she didn't and that was wrong of her) but doing something wrong... does not equal evil, lol. If you really think she's evil, I don't know what to tell you. She's still a child; her body didn't age in the timeloop, being constantly reset, therefore her mind didn't either. She has the mind of a fourteen year old and the experience of someone twice her age-that's going to mess her up.
Also, her being gay is canon. The creators confirmed it in an interview-Homura is in love with Madoka in a romantic but non sexual way. I mean, the way they confirmed it was a bit homophobic (specifically referring to Homura's love being nonsexual making it "pure"; not that I wanted her love to be sexual, since shes a teen and if it is or not is none of my business, but like, it wouldn't be less "pure" if it was) and to be fair, with translations you can never really know (and I'm not fluent enough to try translating it myself), but considering the context of the rebellion movie, seems like a pretty shut case to me. Tell me honestly: what would really change if Homura's love for Madoka was romantic? Why are you so opposed that it's not? This anime quite literally won best Yuri anime when it was released, I think most people just accept its Canon at this point (even if technically since it was confirmed outside of the show it could he argued its only hinted at). (Edit: Also to be fair to you, I didn't realize they were canon until I saw this interview and thought it was merely hinted at/not official. But I am also very dense and have been exposed to queerbaiting and/or censorship that conditioned me to think that even if the authors wanted to go there, they wouldn't be allowed to. In fact, in the past I argued that joking that Homura was gay wasn't a spoiler because it wasn't "offical"; and while it's totally possible that Homura is bisexual, it is pretty much a done deal at this point that she's into Madoka. So while I sort of empathize with not realizing it's canon, I don't empathize with your opposition to the idea of it; even back then I thought Homura was into Madoka, just that it would never be "confirmed" and only hinted at.) Real question, why would you not want these characters to be gay? Why would that be so offensive to you? The only answer I can come up with is that you're homophobic. You could also be concerned with Homura having more experience with life than Madoka, but let it be known that while it's pretty much canon that Homura loves Madoka romantically, you'll notice I never acted like it's canon that Madoka loves Homura romantically-because that has not yet been confirmed. They're not in a relationship, so concerns about power imbalance should only come up if you're shipping them together-as it is now, it could be completely one sided. I'd agree that the power imbalance would need to be solved now that Homura can manipulate the universe around them and is using so to keep Madoka trapped-I'd argue how she's acting is VERY toxic and not a good sign for future relationships (if they do go down that route). Do I think Homura is in love with Madoka? Yes. Do I think that love is healthy? No. Do I think they could work on their relationship and get to the point where it could be healthy? ....Maybe. I like to think so, but I can't exactly know for sure. Do I think Homura is toxic in this situation? Yes, 100%. Do I think she's EVIL on the other hand? No. I think she's a selfish, hurt, possibly suicidal teenager who hates herself and loves Madoka because she's the only one who showed her kindness. I think she's lost track why she fell in love with Madoka in the first place; said kindness. I think she wants to keep Madoka completely to herself, hoard that kindness for herself, but even she knows she can't. I think she's unhealthily obsessed and puts all her self worth on saving Madoka. I think she thinks she's being selfless, and maybe in a way she is, but in many others she is not, by a long shot. I think she's been through something terrible, and while she's behaving unhealthily and toxic right now, I think what she needs is kindness. Homura is not and has never been a mentally stable person. You know how you fix that? Helping her. So no, I don't think she's "evil". I think she's a mentally ill teenager who needs help.
100% team homura right here
The equation must always be balanced. God Madoka (Selfless Love) = Demon Homura (Selfish Love).
Sayaka didn’t transform into a witch , she basically summoned her own witch out like how Nagisa was summoning a bunch of familiars from the original series (kind of a backup support from the other magical girls taken by madoka)
Homura’s entire action at the end was based solely on the flower field scene where she hears about Madoka’s “true” feelings. She’s basically trying to make up for her mistake of letting Madoka contract by reuniting her with her loved ones
You make some fun, insightful reviews. I hope you keep it up, man. You've been picking some real bangers so far.
Love your reaction to the movie, I've watched it 10+ times now and it's just amazing.
To make this reaction extra weird: I am convinced Pink has pigeons caged in his room. Lmao
If it makes you feel better, Madoka herself probably does not hold what Homura did against her.
If you remember from the original series, Madoka stated that she can see all timelines that ever were or ever will be. That would include this timeline. Yet, despite that, she states that she appreciates all Homura has done for her and still considers her her best friend. The reason Madoka seems so shocked in the movie is probably because she didn't realize what particular timeline she was in. She can see all timelines, but isn't aware of which one will play out. But she knows of them all and still considers Homura her best friend. Food for thought.
Kyubey is a ticking time bomb full stop at the end of this movie.
It is said that when Homura and Sayaka meet after the fight between Mami and Homura, it is apparently because their witches were so close to each other that they had the chance to meet. I dunno but I buy it. Cool that you like this! I've rewatched the story so many times but I still have questions xD Thank you for sharing!
There are a concept movie for the fourth movie from 2015 (madogatari exhibition)
The writer gen urobuchi has said on twitter that the script of the movie was already finished before he start working on thunderbolt fantasy (that aired on 2015) that means that probably what we can watch on the concept movie is more reliable than we think (for me is worth to take a look on it if you have 4 minutes, even without reacting)
I don’t know if I can post the link than I try to post it on this way : -> th-cam.com/video/xRq01091Fl4/w-d-xo.html
"What is it Christmas ?" Little did he know....
This movie what we call a "classic-defining" experience.
On the subject of Homura maybe being a necessary evil:
Not my idea but something I read on-line, but just because the girls thwarted Kyubey’s (“Kyubeys’”?) plan =this= time doesn’t mean he won’t try again, and eventually he’ll succeed if Homura doesn’t do something to stop him.
Trivia: in the credits Bebe is listed with her original pre-witch name “Nagisa Momoe” (she also has the anime trope of referring to herself in the 3rd person when she talks, but the subtitles change it to “I”). I appreciated that this continued the theme from the TV series that all the magical girls except Madoka have surnames that are also first names (a subtle hint in the show that Madoka was not destined to become a magical girl)
Also, something interesting in the subtitles: when Kyoko says “I didn’t know you could talk” to Kyubey, the original line was “Oh, so you =can= talk normally!” (spoken as if she is confirming for herself something she had previously been told), I think this was the scriptwriter’s way of making it obvious that the girls had had everything explained to them “off-camera” before this scene (for anyone who hadn’t already figured that part out).
magica madoka ..... i take years for watching this and that was like a storm, mindfucked depressive but philosophic with stunning OST and art
22:25 HEY this series has enough trauma in it as is. Let's not add Omoiri to the mix.
Such a great movie. So, yeah, Madoka and Homura are basically opposites. Madoka's willing to completely give herself up for the well-being of others, and Homura mainly only cares about Madoka's well-being. It's interesting how this movie differs from episode 12. I've heard people refer to episode 12 as the happiest bad ending, and Rebellion as the most unpleasant good ending.
Anyway, similar to the Steins;Gate VN list I gave you, I'll give you a list of Madoka Magica manga as well just incase you're interested. I'm not going to be listing the non-canon stuff though because there's an absurdly large amount of it. I'll also talk about Magia Record related stuff (no spoilers of course) at the end.
Adaptions of the show:
Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Movie Rebellion
New content focused on main cast:
Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Different Story
Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Wraith Arc
New content with main cast, but focused on new characters:
Puella Magi Oriko Magica
Puella Magi Oriko Magica: Extra Story
Puella Magi Oriko Magica: Sadness Prayer
New content focused on new cast:
Puella Magi Kazumi Magica: The Innocent Malice
Puella Magi Suzune Magica
Puella Magi Tart Magica: The Legend of "Jeanne d'Arc"
Now about Magia Record. A number of non-canon Madoka Magica games have been released in the past, but then Magia Record was created. Magia Record was some mobile game where the structure was basically this. "Unlock characters and use them in fights that probably won't actually have anything to do with them in the lore. Doing so unlocks cutscenes."
Unfortunately, when the Magia Record game was created it lost a lot of what made the original show great just because they had to make a lot of changes when converting the series into a different form of media. The game was still good for its own reasons, but some of those reasons were lost when converting the story back into a show. I still think that the Magia Record anime is okay (I've only seen one season so far) but it's nowhere near as good as what you would expect from the rest of the series.
"I've heard people refer to episode 12 as the happiest bad ending, and Rebellion as the most unpleasant good ending."
is actually fantastic
Thanks for the content list, that is very helpful. I'll have to look through some of it as some point depending on interest and how good they actually are. Though yeah wow lots of content. That is pretty surprising even considering how good the series is
🎉
YOOOO LETS GO
Now if you really liked Madoka you should read the Different Story manga, that has as protagonists Kyouko and Mami, I Really didn't think they could make Madoka's story even better, I love how tragic it was.
Interesting that you liked it more than the end of the show, a lot of people don't like the Homucifer twist lol, but seems like opinions on Rebellion have gotten a lot more positive by time, anyways, i do love this movie and im happy you enjoyed it so much
Yep, Madoka movie one from 3 best "after serial movie" in anime. Other two - "Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya" and "No Game No Life Zero". Maybe newest JJK movie be also that good, but i dont see it.
on this ending timeline madoka lived in USA for 3 years and can talk english fluently..... if she try she can actually talk any language ever talked by human beings in any possible past and future....
if PMMM was one of that games with a loot of multiple endings the S1 endign is the worst good ending and the movie the best bad ending.
It is done...
If you like madoka magica, how about monogatari series? It's same animation studio. Monogatari has unique view of the world too!
Monogatari has been highly recommended so I plan on reacting to it at some point. The length is a little intimidating but it at or near the top of the list! Thanks for the recommend 🎉
@@PinkCubed W8, a year ago you haven't even started watching it? How come you're like 90 episodes in now?
So, there were some games released in the time it took Rebellion to be made. Obviously this comment has spoilers for the movie. (also MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT. I am sorry man).
The first one was apparently a cellphone game "Puella Magi Madoka Magica Mobage"... and we know very little about it, aside from some original characters existing. Apparently it lasted only a year lol.
The second one is a PSP game was called Portable and it's a basically a mix between visual novel and dungeon crawler. It actually had some interesting revelations not known at that point. Most of the comment is just me talking about new stuff found in the game. TURBO SPOILERS on this one.
The third one was called Online and was a browser F2P game that lasted about 2 and half a year. I don't think it had anything too unique about it? It definitely had more documentation than Mobage.
1:00:05 - This is really cute. Homura knows how Magical Girls work. As Mami pointed out, she could just do it there and now, but she instead aims for something she knows won't kill. Like yeah, Madoka is her best buddy and reason to not kys herself after repeating each day for basically years... but Homura still respects and/or feels bad for what usually happens to Mami. Gun gals unite!
1:44:03 - Not just the galaxy. This is what we believe to be the shape of a cosmic megastructure called Sloan Great Wall; during the movie's production it was third biggest known cosmic structure. It's basically galaxies upon galaxies upon galaxies.
Rebellion has... divided the fanbase. I am not going to comment on morality/etc. of the action itself, but it definitely is in character. Homura is... to put it simply, broken. Unlike everyone else, her family is never mentioned. Sayaka and Madoka have theirs, Mami and Kyouko's are confirmed to be dead. But Homura's... never mentioned. Best case scenario, they are neglecting her. Worst case, she doesn't really have anybody. It's been shown in Episode 10 that Homura's self-esteem is... far from healthy. And then the loops happened and basically traumatized her further. She kinda idolized Madoka in a way and when the thought of "is this really what Madoka wanted, or was it something she was forced into" got into her head during the flower scene in the movie... Yeah, she was like "fuck everyone, Madoka did not serve any of this" and goes on to do stuff.
I've been in a dark place like that before. I can understand the "why did Homura do it".
So, Portable... There is some ongoing English translation attempts (there have been previous one but something always had happened, so it's not done yet). I can't force you to try to get it and try playing it... but it had new witches and since some of them have since appeared in other Madoka media (which would kinda spoil you on them), I'll just talk about them here.
Albertine. She is the witch of that familiar that shows up at the end of Episode 5; the one that Kyouko is like "wtf why are you killing the small fry, let it become a Witch". She is the scribbling witch with an ignorant nature. She loves Hide and Seek. However, because none of her minions are very intelligent, none of them seek her out. Albertine looks like a small doll-like blonde girl wearing a jumper.
There's also Gisela who... actually appeared in the anime, I completely forgot about it. She shows up for like two seconds when Kyouko is talking about her past (episode 7). In your video she appears at 13:41. Gisela, the silver witch, with a free nature. She dwells in a barrier where everything moves at high speed, but the witch herself is dull. She unfortunately can not use any sort of scientific power. Her body was once dazzling with silver, but she has tarnished gazing upon the coastal sunset. Most notably, in the game she appears as a silver motorcycle-like witch rather than the rusty junk... thing. Most likely the original form mentioned in the lore.
And now, the really juicy stuff. So, you know how Sayaka loses hope and becomes a Witch? That can happen to others (except Madoka) in this game!
For Homura... it's basically the game over for the scenario where you control her specifically. It's not quite the same Homulilly as the one in the movie. She still has the typical "western witch" aesthetic but it resembles Homura more.
The only thing revealed at the time for old Homulilly was nature -- mortal world. This refers to Shigan (此岸); literally "this shore", referring to our side of the Sanzu River (roughly the Buddhist equivalent to Styx). She did not get a description though.
I believe somebody has already posted the description of the new Homulilly so I won't bother with that.
Anyway, Mami is next. Her witch's name is Candeloro. She is the witch of dress-up, with an inviting nature. A kind-hearted witch who dreams of ideal things. This witch can't stand being lonely, and never lets visitors to her barrier escape. She hosts a tea party every day within her home at the depths of her labyrinth, but eating the food there will remove one's soul. Her body is so small, it could fit in a tea cup. She mainly transports herself by hanging onto her familiars' bodies like a keyholder.
It looks humanoid, kinda fancy. Has what resembles a bonnet type of hat. Interestingly enough, her familiars resemble Madoka and Kyoko. Also fun fact, Candeloro is a masculine Italian name (because of course); the feminine version would be Candelora. Her barrier resembles a house ready for celebrating Christmas.
Next is Kyouko. The witch is Ophelia, of wǔdàn (武旦). Her nature is abandonment. A witch who eternally wanders with hollow footsteps within the fog. She can no longer remember what the horse that always accompanies her was. Her type refers to a Chinese opera archetype of female warrior. The Witch herself looks like a headless horseman (with fire in the place of head). It's kinda hard to describe her barrier in one sentence. It kinda looks like a place with bridges and those hanging lantern things in middle of... somewhere???
The remaining two are... very special. These two have never appeared before. Not only that, but they do not make appearance in the main game, but instead in a bonus dungeon, at the last stretch. Unfortunately, they do not actually show in their barriers but rather some weird... place.
Quitterie, the Witch of needles, with a respectful nature. She is the remains of a magical girl who gave up everything to fight for the universe. She believes that she is saving the universe even now.
...Quitterie has a disguise that eventually falls apart (kinda like Mimikyu). Her disguise has this cape/whatever that aesthetic wise kinda resembles space stuff. Her head is covered... by Kyubey head. Her actual form resembles a weird stick like figure with a bunch of needles on her. As far as I know, she has yet to appear in other official media.
And Itzli, the witch of oblivion, with a vengeful nature. A witch who is said to have originally been a magical girl who came from the end of the galaxy. She has shown herself now in order to forget about all the magical girls from this universe.
...Itzli is an interesting case because of that line. She herself looks kinda like a jelly brain within a jelly brain (with the nerve connections). There are also huge movie reel things behind her. She makes another appearance... in a slot machine. Where her labyrinth is revealed to be a movie theater. This information is so out there, that I am actually going to link to footage of it. th-cam.com/video/uCDSMUboq3g/w-d-xo.html
Since Rebellion, there has been a PS Vita game called Battle Pentagram... but I don't think it revealed anything new.
And of course the mobile gacha game Magia Record. It's basically its own thing, so talking about it would take ages and involving spoiling a lot of the stuff. All I will say is that I do like some of the new girls.
we love a good wall of text always
"And then the loops happened and basically traumatized her further. She kinda idolized Madoka in a way and when the thought of "is this really what Madoka wanted, or was it something she was forced into" got into her head during the flower scene in the movie... Yeah, she was like "fuck everyone, Madoka did not serve any of this" and goes on to do stuff."
oh yeah I totally get why Homura went evil mode like this. Having one person as a cure for your loneliness, especially when said loneliness is compounded by time loops and universe erasure memory events, can lead to a lot of problems. With Homura on the verge of going witch mode as well, it makes sense that all these negative emotions were at their peak. Great twist because it makes so much sense
"This refers to Shigan (此岸); literally "this shore", referring to our side of the Sanzu River (roughly the Buddhist equivalent to Styx)."
Oooooh wow I love me some Sanzu/Styx river imagery. Homura does literally act for the mortal world as opposed to the beyond-mortal in the movie (human madoka > god madoka) so that is really interesting. Me gusta
"Interestingly enough, her familiars resemble Madoka and Kyoko"
awwww even as a witch Mami is so cute
"And Itzli, the witch of oblivion, with a vengeful nature..."
holy crap that slot machine madoka magica thing is so good. I literally can't stop watching it. I need to gamble my life savings away on madoka magica RIGHT NOW. Very interesting though that there are these new witches appeared in such random ways, especially the slot machine. That video is so good though I am so glad you linked it
Thanks for all the info! It is crazy how much random madoka magica stuff there is but the main series itself only has 12 eps and a movie. You'd think they'd focus in on it more but idk it is a high bar to clear to keep making main story stuff. Crazy show, crazy slot machine lmao
@@PinkCubed And of course there's still all the manga (out of which I recommend The Different Story for that sweet sweet Mami/Kyoko relationship, and Tart Magica because from what I remember, it's the best one out of the ones that contains new girls.)
Are you going to watch Magia Record too?
heres a manga spoiler and a theory of mine XD
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Ok so ultimate madoka killed Kriemhild Gretchen (her witch form) but she cant really kill her, kriemhild is just as flexible as god madoka so she transformed into a wraith now called The Avatar of Destruction, my theory is in the 4th movie homuras universe wont be really safe since madokas power is asleep so there could start the problem
Magia record have a different opinions for so many reasons, but basically it is a good show , not good as the original for sure but to be a spin off it is really good especially when it comes to animation and art direction, the only thing that feel a little bit disappointing is the characterization of some secondary characters (which is normal because has a lot of character) and because in the game are more developed now you can start to see why some of the game fan don’t like that much the anime, add to that the fact that the final of the anime is different of the series and you can have a magia record fan base disappointed even more, anyway I prefer the anime at the game so if you ask to me I would say watch it, but with less expectations than the original [like when you go to eat an hamburger and you get the chips, the main dish is the hamburger(madomagi), but I like the chips too(magireco)]
Not like you can play the English version of the game anymore. Last I remember it shut down a year or two ago.
i like your burger and chips analogy. Understood about Magica record though, I'll keep it in my back pocket for sure
If you get a chance you should react to Homura did nothing wrong By the doomer den
and if you want more madoka magica stuff there is the side story magia record! not connected to the main story but its pretty enjoyable and its focused on new magical girls!
There's so many things I'd love to talk about for this move that I'm not even gonna try, so I'll just say this.
I honestly couldn't imagine a better ending to this series than this one. Any kind of full happy ending would have felt disingenuous to the spirit of the series.
And in the end, Homura really did give everyone what they wanted. Sure the universe is a little cursed around the edges but all in all, I think that's a small price to pay for finally giving Kyubey what he deserves. Probably the best possible ending Homura could have reached in universe.
#HomuraDidNothingWrong
Homura did nothing wrong.
All of their original wishes
Madoka - I wish for cake. lol She just wanted to be a magical girl. I'll stick her real wish too.
I wish that before every magical girl became a witch that they were given mercy instead.
Sayaka - Cure Kyousuke
Mami - I don't want to die
Kyouko - I wish for my father's church to become more popular
Homura - I wish to go back in time, so that instead of Madoka saving me, I can save her!
Kyuubey - I wish there was an easier way to get energy. xD
I'm not counting the cat wish because it's not in any of the official content lol. The wish for cake was the one in the anime for the very first timeline though. When homura wasn't even a magical girl yet.
Boycott SHAFT and Magia Record for the anime sequel to Puella Magi Madoka Magica Movie Rebellion be remade into a series instead of a movie, so the other magical girls from the spin-off manga can be in it too and be fleshed out! And, Mami Tomoe has a boyfriend who would play an important role in the story!
I've watched Disney movies better than this piece of shit sequel movie (Unless it gets a sequel then I will change my opinion)
I think a toilet plunger should fix the concave curvature in your skull.
#HomuraDidNothingWrong