I heard the Feds are using either 11.5 or 12.5 with a 64 gr bullet. Something about that bullet grain is supposedly a very good match up with that barrel length.
My first time watching. great video. You speak well on camera. I'm always surprised how many people I speak to that do not realize that velocity is what makes 223/5.56 effective
@poortac5568 fragmentation is really not the primary wounding mechanism you need to be worrying about. What you want is a cartridge that stays above 2200 fps for the longest distance and after that you want to make sure it gets 12 inches of penatration. Rifle rounds are not pistol rounds. The only reason we worry about mass is to get deeper penatration and specifically for pistol rounds going below 2200 fps, that and the bullet shape is the only thing we can do to dictate that. But with rifle rounds fmj can do 4x the damage and be half the weight so long as they have the velocity. So back to this, which round goes the deepest and which round stays above 2200 fps for the longest? Because the moment your fps drops below that fps you're shooting a longer heavier 22LR and will ice pick. It might be a deep ice pice but it wont behave like a rifle round that gives that hydrostatic shock effect. 55 grain stays above 2200 fps out to 150 meters from 10 inch barrel. 69 grain out to 100 meters. 77 grain out to 50 meters...? 40 grain solid copper fort scott tui munitions would stay above 2200 fps out to 250 meters.
Tested my new 11.5” and it likes 69gr stuff accuracy wise . Took a coyote with it 2 weeks ago from about 110 yards . It took it down pretty quick but I could see a big difference compared to my 20” with 52gr hp.
@@kevmoful 55 grain or similar will ruin your day if its going fast enough. It’s super violent. the larger weight bullets tend to stay together, which is good and bad, depending on what you want.
@@poortac5568ever shoot the Winchester 45 grain out of a 14.5 in a 1:9 twist barrel? They explode or key hole at 100 ft. Nasty but definitely not accurate. I’m sure it hell on the barrel. Only shot about 10 and stopped. 😊
I’m an engineer with a bit of the tism. I removed my passenger seat and drilled in a little pistol safe to store a “truck gun”. Will say I’ve had issues with ammo here in Wisconsin when it gets cold as a well diggers ass .
@@poortac5568 I believe it is storage in my vehicle during the winter months and then into summer here in Wisconsin . Just unreliable in my Gen 3 19 . You can feel some rounds are hotter than others after going through these temp changes for a year . In Florida I never had any noticeable issue , but I was always shooting in 80+ degrees not - 9. I change the ammo out in my truck every 6-8 weeks now
You could try +p in winter and standard pressure in summer. If really want to geek out, extruded powder is less sensitive to temperature than spherical powder.
55gr at 2838 fps yields 983 ft lbs at the muzzle. at 2400 fps it's 703 ft lbs at 2000 fps it's 488 ft lbs I don't think that's anything to sneeze at, but a 62gr or 70gr would certainly be preferred -- if available.
@@tygre7 2300-2500 fps is the velocities required for reliable fragmentation and tumbling. I agree, getting shot with it is gonna be a bad day, but you might as well get a heavier grain bullet, if its not going to fragment reliably out of your shorter barrel 👍
@poortac5568 fragmentation is really not the primary wounding mechanism you need to be worrying about. What you want is a cartridge that stays above 2200 fps for the longest distance and after that you want to make sure it gets 12 inches of penatration.
Wow. I forgot about Perfecta. I used to shoot so much Perfecta .380, 9mm, and .223 from Walmart. Basically bulk pricing right off the shelf. Had no idea how good I had it then.
I bought a full AR pistol with a 9 1/2 inch barrel for truck gun and convenience. I'm using the 75 grain Hornady short barrel rifle ammo in it. However, this gun is probably designed for 3 yard to maybe 50 yard engagement so I'm not gonna really worry much about any ammo as long as it fires.
The M193 was made for the M16/A1 versions and geared toward 300m (328.08 yds) performance. Might be able to figure the velocity at 300m and use that toward shorter barrels and establishing effective range estimations.
@@jimhovater8755 If I remember correctly Sage Dynamics did a gel test on the Hornady, and it over penetrated horribly. I was shocked, since Hornady stuff is normally really good.
Very few cartridges that were originally designed for rifle length barrels,adapt well to pistol length or short barrels. The 5.56x45 is no exception. With a 55gr bullet, it's extremely difficult to achieve decent performance while still obtaining good efficiency, accuracy, and acceptable equipment reliability. Handloading can overcome many hurdles, but there's very no factory loads that can do so. After 40 years of working with people to develop boutique ammunition that meets very specific operational needs, I can tell you that a 5.56 may work in an 11.5" barrel, but there are much better options available.
Yeah like what? It's better to have a gun that shoots a special load for optimum results but can still shoot bulk widely available ammo and still extremely lethal, than have a weapon that needs special ammo shipped in for the entire time using it.
This is real simple... Lighter projectiles need higher velocity to impart more energy on impact. If you run a short barrel and shoot lighter weight projectiles, you are limiting your platform to shorter ranges of effectiveness. This is why 300 BO was developed. I personally will not own a weapon chambered in .223/5.56 with a barrel under 16".
Go with the 20 inch barrel AR-15A4. It will complement any scenario. And, this model is authorized for US Service Rifle Competition, which is the ideal venue for any who want to develop their marksmanship. Those who want to get into Service Rifle Competition can sign up for the USAMUs Small Arms Firing School, a 3 day annual event at Camp Perry, where Champion Military Shooter instruct civilian students on everything there is to know about shooting.
The point of a shorter gun is to be used for shorter ranges. 11.5s are typically 0-250y guns. 50yd zero makes them essentially point and shoot to 250 and really 0-100 is the main usage.
@@poortac5568 using reman 55gr ammo i can shoot from 0-300y with only one hold over and still get 1shot hits. 62 and 77gr would only be if you want to go further than that. but an optic to shoot further would be better suited on another gun
@@patrickm.blanchard8497 I know you can make hits with 55 grain in a 11.5, but im talking about good terminal ballistics at those ranges. 62 and 77 grain would help a lot 👍
I miss the cases of Wolf Gold.. I still have unopened, but those days of getting that "brass" imported shit for 24-26cents per round saddens me that we cannot get that kind of solid ammo for cheap anymore.. Independence was also one of my fav's.. I was clocking 3100-3200fps out of a 16in barrel..
Excellent topic. I’ve been wondering about this and it just doesn’t make sense to go the SBR route Just got done putting together an AR10 with a 18” barrel and now putting together an AR15 with a 16” barrel
@@Fordgroup00 Thanks! An SBR is decent to 300 yards with good 77 grain ammo, but 55 grain has more or less died to me, considering heavier grain stuff is much better.
My thoughts exactly. Not expecting to kick in doors and do CQB, 16" seems to be the sweet spot for anything from 55 to 75 grain pills. With 77 gr and a 20+" barrel on a borrowed gun, I made hits out to 1,200 m
I mean SBRs are made for close quarters being 300 yards or less. Sure they can do more Navy seals have been known to get kills at 800 yards with Sierra match king 77 grain OTM but realistically if you want range you should go with a minimum of a 16 inch barrel preferably just a full 20 inch barrel 1/7 twist with 77 grain OTM you’ll get the best advantage at range.
@@poortac5568it’s true I use a 20” for my farm truck gun. Have taken varmits with my 11.5 and the difference on target is substantial past 100 yards. You can have a bad shot with a 20” 3300 fps pill and put a coyote down. I wouldn’t say the same for the 11.5” .
Interesting. I’ve been learning a lot about barrel length, velocity and armor penetration. 5.56 really loses it’s advantages when shot from short barrels
@@themightycrixus1131isn’t there a 1:14 twist barrel? I believe that’s the twist the US was using in Nam. Get hit in the hip and it comes out the head crazy bullet. That’s what say anyways.
@@Hornet135 Read the book Black Hawk Down. It talks about how ineffective 5.56 was in short barrels, and how people would get shot multiple times and just get right back up and run away.
That’s why my home defense gun is a 14.5 p/w M4A1. I can still train with 55 gr and use it for home defense. Looking to get a bulk of 77gr soon for my mk18 so I can zero it and use it in case I need it for home defense since it got a suppressor. Would you still consider training with 55gr since it’s cheaper?
How do you have the magnifier setup with the eotech on the riser? What riser are you using? I know off topic. Great video. People have fantasies about how far they can shoot and what "effective range" really is
@@douglascuvillyed.s8211 This is a cheap UTG 3x magnifier (I don’t recommend it anymore, because there are much better options now). The riser is the shorter Unity “knock off” off of amazon, which make the non QD Eotechs at a perfect height. Personally my favorite riser is the Monstrum 1/2 inch riser, with my Eotech EXPS3-4. Tall enough to help with NVGs, but short enough to not feel awkward. My favorite magnifier is the newer Primary Arms 6x, with their taller (sold separately) insert. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
@@poortac5568I will second you on the PA 6x . For a magnifier at that price point it is hard to beat . I have a 3x eo tech magnifier as well and sure the glass is noticeably better but the extra magnification is very nice .
@@willbar1961 62 green tip gets better velocity than many 55 grain loads (I was shocked). I personally like 75 or 77 grain, but 62 is a good middle ground choice.
@@willbar1961 green tip is cheap enough to be range or “serious use” ammo. My guns dont shoot it better than 4 moa though. Some are like 6 moa with it 😢
@@poortac5568 that’s it! I couldn’t remember the name of the ammo. Love to see a video on that. Crazy how they can squeeze that much more fps out of that round.
You are correct. Nerds with no reap world experience love info on paper and outright ignore the experience in the field. If a 55 grain ball round kills a deer at 200 yards, why do we think 3-5 rounds across a room in a SBR is even remotely survivable
11.5 is actually the best short barrel length for 5.56 it gets like a 150 fps increase over a 10.5 inch barrel where most of the time going up one inch only gives a small boost in speed. The 11.5 is only about 150 fps slower than a 14.5 inch barrel this is why BCM has always had a lot of praise for the 11.5 inch barrel you can also look up Garand thumbs video on 5.56 velocity in many different barrel lengths.
@@BillyBob-bd1hj getting shot with a .22lr is technically “lethal”. You gotta bleed out first, which doesn’t help the person trying to stop a threat….Plenty of videos showing people shrug off multiple of bullets. Pick one that has the best desired effect.
People still have guns in their back glass of their trucks here people go in stores leave their vehicles unlocked everyone knows everyone they aren't just going to grab their cellphones and take video of someone robbing a vehicle they're probably going to draw their own weapon and call the cops...
I stopped buying pmc xtac m193 because it’s 1-200 fps slower than real m193, I buy ppu m193 now since it was a good bit more accurate than Winchesters m193 for me and still does over 3,000 fps from a 16”. For my home defense ammo I use hornady TAP T1 75gr bthp loaded in their 223 black lineup.
@@CheeseBurgerXJ The 75 grain AAC stuff is probably the most accurate ammo I have used to date. My XTac is now training ammo. Its sad because they actually sealed the primers. If only its velocity was better 😢
@@poortac5568 yeah pmc always does a nice job with the sealing, not sloppy at all. I like the sealant they use more than ppu’s, seems to be more rubbery than regular laquer but ppu does seal the primer and still uses black Lucas on the neck. I gave my grandpa the rest of my xtac when I finished his 20” build this spring lol
@@CheeseBurgerXJ ive decided on 77 grain AAC as my new go to. Its about 2 moa or better in all of my guns, and is a lot less velocity dependent. I do get a random flier every now and then though.
@@poortac5568 if the aac ammo was sealed I’d choose that 75gr as my main round but I really don’t like stocking up on unsealed rounds. I have about 500rounds of federal 62gr trophy bonded bearclaw I’ll use if shtf, I like how the back half is a solid copper slug so it penetrates nicely through thin steel and stuff like that and it’s sealed on both ends.
I run 55 grain ballistic tips in my 10.5". The same performance as m193 but at lower velocities. If I'm not running that, I'm running AAC 75 or 77 grain black tips.
I think this man assumed everyone that runs sbrs is trying to hit a target past 300 yards. That is not the case for me at least. I run a 3-12 on my 11.5 and plan to stay 250yrds and under. If i want more i have my bolt action 308. But seriously who wants to get hit center mass with 556.
@@SPI-fr3tg Getting hit with a .22 isnt fun, but I prefer a round that is as effective as possible. I like SBRs, but people have unrealistic expectations from them at longer ranges 👍
@@poortac5568 If it’s a home defense gun, I don’t need anything over 15yds. If we are talking defense of the community, I have plenty of options in the safe. In most states, unless someone is shooting into your home and you shoot them 100yds from your house, you’re going to jail.
Not on topic pertaining to the video, but I’ve noticed EVERYONE does it: why do you guys never place your thumb around the pistol grip when taking a precise or benched shot? Literally everyone on TH-cam does it. I’ve never seen that phenomenon in person
@@GarandMan1943 it keeps your from squeezing your thumb, which can pull the shot slightly. Kinda like jerking the trigger on a handgun. It helps remove one more human factor.
If your going short barrel, 556 isn’t even worth building on. It’s a velocity dependent round no matter what grain you use, might as well go 300blk supersonic
62g Is for range in the shortys but the 12.5 is 👑in AR/AK SBRs🎯the 11.5 the middle child,keep 55/62gr SP’s inside 250/cqb 💨🚪and keep the hot stuff in tape coded mags 💨🚘🐗🐻
why bother with .223? The convention for FPS measurements for .223 is a 24” barrel, for 5.56 is 20”. For the shorter barrel I’m always 5.56 if I have it.
@@MJA5 many .223 loads are hotter than 5.56 loads. The Winchester .223 was actually hotter than nearly all the other 55 grain loads, that were not M193. I was shocked by the results honestly. I did another chrono test video out of a 16 inch barrel as well.
Contravesial opinion but if you get an ar with a barrel this short just get a submachinegun something like an mp5 or that nature. You aren't getting the power of the rifle cartrige anyways then just reduce the sound recoil and ammo price by getting a 9mm smg for me a cz scorpion evo 3 is a good alternative to a short ar don't get me wrong I love the ar platform but It's just wack with a short barrel like that.
@@GAguns The CZ has just as much recoil (or its just as violent, from being a direct blowback). An MP5 at least has no recoil (I love mine). However, 77grain 5.56 has far better terminal ballistics than a pistol caliber. Im not worried about ammo cost or noise on a defensive gun. I can put a suppressor on it if I needed to. I look at short ARs as 200-300 yard guns anyway, in which case you still get good ballistics, with the right ammo.
@GAguns To put numbers on this that prove you wrong, 950 ft-lbs from a 10.5" or 11.5" barrel is going to do a LOT more damage than 400 ft-lbs from the average 9mm. It's going faster, so it will be more accurate at distance, too. I respect where you're coming from, but save for suppressing and going 147gr 9mm, it's really not better.
@yockhunter My friend's MPx he absolutely hated for being absurdly loud and having very snappy recoil. The folding brace he had on it was not comfortable on the cheek, and the suppressor with action was louder than his other guns by a long shot, like his PC carbine.
I’m just waiting on one of you cool kids that doubt 7.5 velocity to show us a real test and stand in front of it 😎… I’ll take bullet vs flesh 100 out of 100 times at any distance.
@@fucore85 Ah yes, the ignorant statement of any damage to tissue is the same…..no need for anything bigger than a .22lr, or even a knife, guys. Phone the military and let them know 😂😂😂
@@approachingtarget.4503 the M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel, not a 11.5. “effective” in the historical military context is not the same “effective” we look for in defensive ammo choices. There are much better choices now.
@@ExplorinInTheWoods 😂 I hate cardio, so I rarely run. I used to weight about 145, now Im at 165. I have a ridiculous metabolism that makes it impossible for me to gain weight. It took me a year to gain that 20 pounds in muscle, even while eating a lot more. It’s not worth trying to gain more weight, because I would have to do nothing but eat 24/7. I can eat whatever I want though, which is nice 😂
Short barrel AR's should only be used with 30 cal. Do not use 556 in short barrels. AR's are based on velocity which your only going to get with 20 in barrels, It's what the gun was made for. DUH (Are you a cop) ?
@@Brett.1984 77 grain does well at lower velocities. An no, I prefer not working night shifts or babysitting full grown adults, who cant seem to stop making the same mistakes repeatedly 😂
I used to have that mentality until I ran a class with my 11.5”. I’m old and let me tell ya that weight savings and running a K can is the tits on a 11.5. I would say the 10.5 is where I draw the line . I get up to 200fps more from my 11.5 vs my 10.3 “ depending on ammo.
@@kevmoful yeah, 11.5 is the shortest I will go, better velocities and dwell time. Less harsh on the gun too. If you run 77gr OTM or something similar, you can get decent performance out to 300-400 yards. Not sure at what velocities the 77gr stops being effective in tissue though. Ill have to dig into it a bit more.
@@robsixtyfour9204 Its a precision grip that helps remove your grip strength as a factor. It helps quite a bit, especially if you have a milspec trigger.
Sorry, but I've never been shooting and thought my thumb grip was affecting my shot. That's why his Moe grip rises high on the receiver. But what do I know huh
Sorry this video seems rushed. It was, Im trying to be more consistent on releasing videos every week, so this one wasnt polished as well 😂
I heard the Feds are using either 11.5 or 12.5 with a 64 gr bullet. Something about that bullet grain is supposedly a very good match up with that barrel length.
@@Jason_556 they are using bonded bullets
My first time watching. great video. You speak well on camera.
I'm always surprised how many people I speak to that do not realize that velocity is what makes 223/5.56 effective
@@geoffreybrandt6453 thank you! Velocity is king with 5.56 👍
@poortac5568 fragmentation is really not the primary wounding mechanism you need to be worrying about. What you want is a cartridge that stays above 2200 fps for the longest distance and after that you want to make sure it gets 12 inches of penatration.
Rifle rounds are not pistol rounds. The only reason we worry about mass is to get deeper penatration and specifically for pistol rounds going below 2200 fps, that and the bullet shape is the only thing we can do to dictate that. But with rifle rounds fmj can do 4x the damage and be half the weight so long as they have the velocity.
So back to this, which round goes the deepest and which round stays above 2200 fps for the longest? Because the moment your fps drops below that fps you're shooting a longer heavier 22LR and will ice pick. It might be a deep ice pice but it wont behave like a rifle round that gives that hydrostatic shock effect.
55 grain stays above 2200 fps out to 150 meters from 10 inch barrel. 69 grain out to 100 meters. 77 grain out to 50 meters...?
40 grain solid copper fort scott tui munitions would stay above 2200 fps out to 250 meters.
Tested my new 11.5” and it likes 69gr stuff accuracy wise . Took a coyote with it 2 weeks ago from about 110 yards . It took it down pretty quick but I could see a big difference compared to my 20” with 52gr hp.
@@kevmoful 55 grain or similar will ruin your day if its going fast enough. It’s super violent. the larger weight bullets tend to stay together, which is good and bad, depending on what you want.
@@poortac5568ever shoot the Winchester 45 grain out of a 14.5 in a 1:9 twist barrel? They explode or key hole at 100 ft. Nasty but definitely not accurate. I’m sure it hell on the barrel. Only shot about 10 and stopped. 😊
@@poortac5568I like 22-250! 60 grains bullet loves to punch through AR 500 3/8 steel target.
I’m an engineer with a bit of the tism. I removed my passenger seat and drilled in a little pistol safe to store a “truck gun”. Will say I’ve had issues with ammo here in Wisconsin when it gets cold as a well diggers ass .
@@kevmoful what kind of issues with ammo? storage conditions?
@@poortac5568 I believe it is storage in my vehicle during the winter months and then into summer here in Wisconsin . Just unreliable in my Gen 3 19 . You can feel some rounds are hotter than others after going through these temp changes for a year . In Florida I never had any noticeable issue , but I was always shooting in 80+ degrees not - 9. I change the ammo out in my truck every 6-8 weeks now
@@kevmoful interesting. It makes sense though 👍
You could try +p in winter and standard pressure in summer. If really want to geek out, extruded powder is less sensitive to temperature than spherical powder.
I’m an engineer has too be the second scariest thing said, after Ronald Regan’s I’m from the government and I’m here to help quote lol
55gr at 2838 fps yields 983 ft lbs at the muzzle.
at 2400 fps it's 703 ft lbs
at 2000 fps it's 488 ft lbs
I don't think that's anything to sneeze at, but a 62gr or 70gr would certainly be preferred -- if available.
@@tygre7 2300-2500 fps is the velocities required for reliable fragmentation and tumbling. I agree, getting shot with it is gonna be a bad day, but you might as well get a heavier grain bullet, if its not going to fragment reliably out of your shorter barrel 👍
@@poortac5568no those small bullets tumble a lot even at Lower velocity, they just won’t fragment
@@poortac5568exactly! That’s why I always go 62 or heavier out of my short barrel ARs.
@@ChanoLeyva-hq2ciI like how the Russians did 5.45. Hollow cavity in the nose to make it tumble. I like the 7N6 bullet.
@poortac5568 fragmentation is really not the primary wounding mechanism you need to be worrying about. What you want is a cartridge that stays above 2200 fps for the longest distance and after that you want to make sure it gets 12 inches of penatration.
Wow. I forgot about Perfecta. I used to shoot so much Perfecta .380, 9mm, and .223 from Walmart. Basically bulk pricing right off the shelf. Had no idea how good I had it then.
@@MX5autoxer I remember those days too 😭
Still doesn’t beat the Winchester white box M-193 for $2.95 a box days, now those days were awesome!!!!
@@DavArroyo7242 I remember those days 😭
I bought a full AR pistol with a 9 1/2 inch barrel for truck gun and convenience. I'm using the 75 grain Hornady short barrel rifle ammo in it. However, this gun is probably designed for 3 yard to maybe 50 yard engagement so I'm not gonna really worry much about any ammo as long as it fires.
@@thomasdeebel6695 75 grain stuff should be fine 👍
The M193 was made for the M16/A1 versions and geared toward 300m (328.08 yds) performance. Might be able to figure the velocity at 300m and use that toward shorter barrels and establishing effective range estimations.
@@johnw4999 2300-2500 fps is the generic agreed upon velocities for m193 to fragment I believe 👍
Hornady's BLACK 75gr SBR is what I run in my 10.5-inch PSA MK18 clone. 50gr Hornady's V-Max in my wife's 7.5-inch ATI.
@@jimhovater8755 If I remember correctly Sage Dynamics did a gel test on the Hornady, and it over penetrated horribly. I was shocked, since Hornady stuff is normally really good.
How’s that Hornaday SBR, I have a 10.3 in Saint with a Ssndman K and have been eyeing this ammo. I have some 75gr AAC coming on Friday
@@yockhunter watch the Sage Dynamics review. He goes into a lot of depth on it.
@@poortac5568I’ll have to watch that.
What’s the twist on your wife’s gun? That 50 gr bullet is light.
Very few cartridges that were originally designed for rifle length barrels,adapt well to pistol length or short barrels. The 5.56x45 is no exception. With a 55gr bullet, it's extremely difficult to achieve decent performance while still obtaining good efficiency, accuracy, and acceptable equipment reliability. Handloading can overcome many hurdles, but there's very no factory loads that can do so. After 40 years of working with people to develop boutique ammunition that meets very specific operational needs, I can tell you that a 5.56 may work in an 11.5" barrel, but there are much better options available.
@@kweeks10045 agreed 👍
Yeah like what? It's better to have a gun that shoots a special load for optimum results but can still shoot bulk widely available ammo and still extremely lethal, than have a weapon that needs special ammo shipped in for the entire time using it.
This is real simple... Lighter projectiles need higher velocity to impart more energy on impact.
If you run a short barrel and shoot lighter weight projectiles, you are limiting your platform to shorter ranges of effectiveness.
This is why 300 BO was developed.
I personally will not own a weapon chambered in .223/5.56 with a barrel under 16".
The cost of 300 BO ammo alone makes me not want to even own one.
@@fragout9575 check AAC’s 300 blackout ammo. They have them for $0.60-$0.75
Go with the 20 inch barrel AR-15A4. It will complement any scenario. And, this model is authorized for US Service Rifle Competition, which is the ideal venue for any who want to develop their marksmanship. Those who want to get into Service Rifle Competition can sign up for the USAMUs Small Arms Firing School, a 3 day annual event at Camp Perry, where Champion Military Shooter instruct civilian students on everything there is to know about shooting.
@@charlesludwig9173 20 inch is a good choice. A bit long with a suppressor though.
I would go with a blackout upper if it’s a short barrel AR. For longer range shots, I would go with a separate (probably creedmore) rifle.
The point of a shorter gun is to be used for shorter ranges. 11.5s are typically 0-250y guns. 50yd zero makes them essentially point and shoot to 250 and really 0-100 is the main usage.
@@patrickm.blanchard8497 Depending on ammo, yes
@@poortac5568 using reman 55gr ammo i can shoot from 0-300y with only one hold over and still get 1shot hits. 62 and 77gr would only be if you want to go further than that. but an optic to shoot further would be better suited on another gun
@@patrickm.blanchard8497 I know you can make hits with 55 grain in a 11.5, but im talking about good terminal ballistics at those ranges. 62 and 77 grain would help a lot 👍
I miss the cases of Wolf Gold.. I still have unopened, but those days of getting that "brass" imported shit for 24-26cents per round saddens me that we cannot get that kind of solid ammo for cheap anymore.. Independence was also one of my fav's.. I was clocking 3100-3200fps out of a 16in barrel..
@@Clutch_Kick187 Yeah, .45 cents a round for cheap stuff hurts me. Who would have thought 4 years would cause ammo to jump so high 😢
Thanks for sharing! 👍
@@othnielbendavid9777anytime 👍
Excellent topic. I’ve been wondering about this and it just doesn’t make sense to go the SBR route
Just got done putting together an AR10 with a 18” barrel and now putting together an AR15 with a 16” barrel
@@Fordgroup00 Thanks! An SBR is decent to 300 yards with good 77 grain ammo, but 55 grain has more or less died to me, considering heavier grain stuff is much better.
My thoughts exactly. Not expecting to kick in doors and do CQB, 16" seems to be the sweet spot for anything from 55 to 75 grain pills. With 77 gr and a 20+" barrel on a borrowed gun, I made hits out to 1,200 m
@@larrygibson9273
Right on 👍
@@larrygibson9273 cool!
I generally dont get people that particularly care about optimizing their m193 ammo when oftpoints exist. I use 55 grainers as range fodder.
I mean SBRs are made for close quarters being 300 yards or less. Sure they can do more Navy seals have been known to get kills at 800 yards with Sierra match king 77 grain OTM but realistically if you want range you should go with a minimum of a 16 inch barrel preferably just a full 20 inch barrel 1/7 twist with 77 grain OTM you’ll get the best advantage at range.
@@dariodicarlo8745 true, this test was more or less to show just that 👍
@@poortac5568 Yessir good test!
@@dariodicarlo8745 thanks!
I tend to favor the 52gr tsx out of a 20 inch barrel for gpr purposes, I consider it a m193a1 if you will.
@@G.W-01 most things do well out if a 20 inch barrel 😎
@@poortac5568 True!
@@poortac5568it’s true I use a 20” for my farm truck gun. Have taken varmits with my 11.5 and the difference on target is substantial past 100 yards.
You can have a bad shot with a 20” 3300 fps pill and put a coyote down. I wouldn’t say the same for the 11.5” .
@@kevmoful velocity is king with 5.56 👍
@@poortac5568oh yeah!!
Interesting. I’ve been learning a lot about barrel length, velocity and armor penetration. 5.56 really loses it’s advantages when shot from short barrels
@@steamman9193 yeah, they are great for cqb distances, but its a big tradeoff.
Yeah the bullet was designed around a 20" barrel with a 1:12 twist. Its the holy grail for the .223/5.56
@@poortac5568I agree! But they look cool as shit!
@@themightycrixus1131isn’t there a 1:14 twist barrel? I believe that’s the twist the US was using in Nam. Get hit in the hip and it comes out the head crazy bullet. That’s what say anyways.
@@Jason_556 It was a 1/12 twist for the M16 A1. I have a clone build with original Surplus Parts 😎
This is why 20". Average dude doesnt.need anything smaller and you can.make any ammo effective. Its not a popular opinion but its the unlarping truth.
@@theredneckredcoat2459 If you dont have a suppressor, a longer barrel makes more sense 👍
@@poortac5568 A lot of guys with cans are going to find out that they aren't going to work out for you the way you think they are.
The problem is certain guys think that a bullet that doesn’t fragment is basically like shooting someone with a small nerf dart.
@@Hornet135 Read the book Black Hawk Down. It talks about how ineffective 5.56 was in short barrels, and how people would get shot multiple times and just get right back up and run away.
@@poortac5568CAG disagrees with you.
Good bullets and chill
@@PrussianPushma thanks
Light for caliber .358 Yeti SCHP is better then M193 in a SHORTAY.
25+1 SPC PMAGS.
3300 fps. 77gr.
11.5's do best with Hornady SBR loads or handloads. Like 69 gr SMK with 23 gr N133 behind it.
Thats why i did 12.5 the extra inch is about an extra 100fps iirc.
Btw I miss those perfecta days. I think it was about $15 for 50 rounds at walmart.
@@alberth7535 Those were the good days. I miss walmart ammo 😢
That’s why my home defense gun is a 14.5 p/w M4A1. I can still train with 55 gr and use it for home defense. Looking to get a bulk of 77gr soon for my mk18 so I can zero it and use it in case I need it for home defense since it got a suppressor.
Would you still consider training with 55gr since it’s cheaper?
@@esTaleCSGO as long as its within 200 yards, I use 55 grain for training 👍
How do you have the magnifier setup with the eotech on the riser? What riser are you using? I know off topic. Great video. People have fantasies about how far they can shoot and what "effective range" really is
@@douglascuvillyed.s8211 This is a cheap UTG 3x magnifier (I don’t recommend it anymore, because there are much better options now). The riser is the shorter Unity “knock off” off of amazon, which make the non QD Eotechs at a perfect height. Personally my favorite riser is the Monstrum 1/2 inch riser, with my Eotech EXPS3-4. Tall enough to help with NVGs, but short enough to not feel awkward. My favorite magnifier is the newer Primary Arms 6x, with their taller (sold separately) insert. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
@@poortac5568I will second you on the PA 6x . For a magnifier at that price point it is hard to beat . I have a 3x eo tech magnifier as well and sure the glass is noticeably better but the extra magnification is very nice .
@@kevmoful agreed, my buddy gas the 5x eotech and I liked it, but the PA is a better deal imo
I don’t know what you guys are talking about but my 7.5 BA 1:7 is dead on at 100 yards with 62 gr and Norma 77gr .223 just saying
@@geigelg77 accuracy isnt the issue here, velocity is.
SBR 5.56's weren't made for velocity. I would run 55 or 62 grain as long as the rifle groups. You could go heavier, but why?
Stability
@@miniaturefarmer464 the heavier 77 grain bullets perform much better at lower velocities (that you get from shorter barrels)
55 grain psp out of my 10.5....all I wanted was a 100 yard truck gun
@@joehutchens4831 soft points do fairly well at lower velocities 👍
62gr green tip 556 is my default although I have some 55gr 556 and some commercial.
@@willbar1961 62 green tip gets better velocity than many 55 grain loads (I was shocked). I personally like 75 or 77 grain, but 62 is a good middle ground choice.
That’s about 90 % of my ammo for my AR.
@@poortac5568 If I buy by the case it's the green tip but I have others too.
@@willbar1961 green tip is cheap enough to be range or “serious use” ammo. My guns dont shoot it better than 4 moa though. Some are like 6 moa with it 😢
@@poortac5568 Have you tried different brands?
Pistol calibers are normally 800 to 1500 fps...so a ar15 pistol shooting at 2800 at close range is good
@@gpuckit I agree 👍
I’ve seen some special 9 mm loads that are at 2000 fps. Not sure if that’s rifle or pistol barrel.
@@Jason_556 The Liberty Civil Defense ammo is that fast. I own some. If I think about it, ill chrono it
@@poortac5568 that’s it! I couldn’t remember the name of the ammo. Love to see a video on that. Crazy how they can squeeze that much more fps out of that round.
You are correct. Nerds with no reap world experience love info on paper and outright ignore the experience in the field. If a 55 grain ball round kills a deer at 200 yards, why do we think 3-5 rounds across a room in a SBR is even remotely survivable
8 inch BCA upper with 55 grain at 150 yards and a red dot, no issues for me. Maybe i have the exception 🤷. That's from the standing and not prone
@@karalles1 its a velocity issue, not an accuracy issue
@@poortac5568 if you hit someone at 150 its penetrating. Nobody's trying to get kills at 500 with a shorty. Good vid though. 👍
@@karalles1 That was the point, showing the limitations of short ARs. Thanks! 😀
@@poortac5568 you the man
Yeah for 7.62X39!
So .223 55 grain makes a 16 inch rifle shoot like an 11.5 inch gun. This is why I have 5.56 75 grain jhps
@@andycraig6905 some .223 has respectable velocities out of longer (16 and above) barrels. 75 or 77 grain are superior in every gun imo
I’d imagine that it depends on the twist rate? Idk haven’t watched video yet I’ll put it on soon
For a fight or zeroing or hunting use 75 grain but running drills at the range hell no use 55 grain fuck ft lbs for steel targets training
@@jonsingleton203 yup 55 grain is good for training 👍
What brand barrel is that? Those velocities seem very high for a 11.5
@@blackcatgats its an AIM Surplus 11.5. Not sure who makes it for them
11.5 is actually the best short barrel length for 5.56 it gets like a 150 fps increase over a 10.5 inch barrel where most of the time going up one inch only gives a small boost in speed. The 11.5 is only about 150 fps slower than a 14.5 inch barrel this is why BCM has always had a lot of praise for the 11.5 inch barrel you can also look up Garand thumbs video on 5.56 velocity in many different barrel lengths.
@@dariodicarlo874514.5 is more like 300 fps faster, I routinely get around 3100 with Imi m193 and 2800 out of my Kac 11.5
@@dariodicarlo8745 correct, plus better dwell time and much less wear and tear on the gun 👍
@@poortac5568 Hell yea I love my 11.5
Ha! jokes on you my liver didn't even feel that bullet fragment, just going to carry on with my day.
@@BillyBob-bd1hj getting shot with a .22lr is technically “lethal”. You gotta bleed out first, which doesn’t help the person trying to stop a threat….Plenty of videos showing people shrug off multiple of bullets. Pick one that has the best desired effect.
People still have guns in their back glass of their trucks here people go in stores leave their vehicles unlocked everyone knows everyone they aren't just going to grab their cellphones and take video of someone robbing a vehicle they're probably going to draw their own weapon and call the cops...
@@jasonraulston3922 where you live definitely plays a part. I prefer to keep things hidden to keep people honest
@@poortac5568I use to do that back in the day. Not now. Way too many sticky fingers out there. 😊
I stopped buying pmc xtac m193 because it’s 1-200 fps slower than real m193, I buy ppu m193 now since it was a good bit more accurate than Winchesters m193 for me and still does over 3,000 fps from a 16”. For my home defense ammo I use hornady TAP T1 75gr bthp loaded in their 223 black lineup.
AAC 75gr bthp uses the TAP T1 bullet as well, I got 200 rounds of it I’m testing out against the hornady.
@@CheeseBurgerXJ The 75 grain AAC stuff is probably the most accurate ammo I have used to date. My XTac is now training ammo. Its sad because they actually sealed the primers. If only its velocity was better 😢
@@poortac5568 yeah pmc always does a nice job with the sealing, not sloppy at all. I like the sealant they use more than ppu’s, seems to be more rubbery than regular laquer but ppu does seal the primer and still uses black Lucas on the neck. I gave my grandpa the rest of my xtac when I finished his 20” build this spring lol
@@CheeseBurgerXJ ive decided on 77 grain AAC as my new go to. Its about 2 moa or better in all of my guns, and is a lot less velocity dependent. I do get a random flier every now and then though.
@@poortac5568 if the aac ammo was sealed I’d choose that 75gr as my main round but I really don’t like stocking up on unsealed rounds. I have about 500rounds of federal 62gr trophy bonded bearclaw I’ll use if shtf, I like how the back half is a solid copper slug so it penetrates nicely through thin steel and stuff like that and it’s sealed on both ends.
Bro if im shooting past 300 im using .308
@@mcnasty0322 I agree in general, but thats a heavy setup
Is that a 5.56 chamber or a 223 wylde chamber? Just curious, I don’t think it would make much of a difference on consistency or velocity.
@@anonymity002200 its a 5.56 chambered barrel 👍
The loader the better. Makes the guy on the other end think your firing maybe 306 or 30/30 at them.
@@johnd4348 I like my hearing though 😂
I run 55 grain ballistic tips in my 10.5". The same performance as m193 but at lower velocities.
If I'm not running that, I'm running AAC 75 or 77 grain black tips.
@@BuckF0eJiden good choices in ammo and nice name 👍😂😂😂
I think this man assumed everyone that runs sbrs is trying to hit a target past 300 yards. That is not the case for me at least. I run a 3-12 on my 11.5 and plan to stay 250yrds and under. If i want more i have my bolt action 308. But seriously who wants to get hit center mass with 556.
@@SPI-fr3tg Getting hit with a .22 isnt fun, but I prefer a round that is as effective as possible. I like SBRs, but people have unrealistic expectations from them at longer ranges 👍
"If you're stuck shooting 55 grain"???
@@minerblue9641 yes? ammo can be hard to come by at times 🤷♂️
@@poortac5568you ain’t kidding. Damn Ukraine War!
75 yards is plenty in the forest or jungle
@@KennethJoines-th4jk clearings, farmland, rivers, rocky areas, and other natural features can create large open areas.
This is why my 11.5” “pistol “ is a .300BO
@@Patrick-xd8jv 300blk is a good choice, but still have severe range limitations
@@poortac5568 If it’s a home defense gun, I don’t need anything over 15yds. If we are talking defense of the community, I have plenty of options in the safe. In most states, unless someone is shooting into your home and you shoot them 100yds from your house, you’re going to jail.
@@Patrick-xd8jv In “rule of law” yes 👍
@poortac5568 you obviously have enough experience to know they make .300BO that goes 2500fps these days
@@cavalierghost yes 👍
Not on topic pertaining to the video, but I’ve noticed EVERYONE does it: why do you guys never place your thumb around the pistol grip when taking a precise or benched shot? Literally everyone on TH-cam does it. I’ve never seen that phenomenon in person
@@GarandMan1943 it keeps your from squeezing your thumb, which can pull the shot slightly. Kinda like jerking the trigger on a handgun. It helps remove one more human factor.
If your going short barrel, 556 isn’t even worth building on. It’s a velocity dependent round no matter what grain you use, might as well go 300blk supersonic
@@HatsuneM1ku01 You get better performance, for sure. But there are still advantages for the 5.56 over 300 blk.
Did your holographic friend teach you this?
And short barrel 223 muzzle blast is awful. 300 blackout, not as much.
@@828enigma6 thats true, but even a short suppressor will help a lot. But then you are adding barrel length, so everything is a compromise 👍
A lot of widows and fatherless children on the other side of the world would beg to differ…
Eh, with short range training I use 55gr 5.56 out of my 10.3.
I’m not using my 75/77gr for that
@@dennisdavid9588 for training, cheapest crap I can find will do 😎😂
62g Is for range in the shortys but the 12.5 is 👑in AR/AK SBRs🎯the 11.5 the middle child,keep 55/62gr SP’s inside 250/cqb 💨🚪and keep the hot stuff in tape coded mags 💨🚘🐗🐻
why bother with .223? The convention for FPS measurements for .223 is a 24” barrel, for 5.56 is 20”. For the shorter barrel I’m always 5.56 if I have it.
@@MJA5 many .223 loads are hotter than 5.56 loads. The Winchester .223 was actually hotter than nearly all the other 55 grain loads, that were not M193. I was shocked by the results honestly. I did another chrono test video out of a 16 inch barrel as well.
Only if your a bad shoot ...
@@ronaldprovencher7570 *shot… or you care about effect on target
Contravesial opinion but if you get an ar with a barrel this short just get a submachinegun something like an mp5 or that nature. You aren't getting the power of the rifle cartrige anyways then just reduce the sound recoil and ammo price by getting a 9mm smg for me a cz scorpion evo 3 is a good alternative to a short ar don't get me wrong I love the ar platform but It's just wack with a short barrel like that.
@@GAguns The CZ has just as much recoil (or its just as violent, from being a direct blowback). An MP5 at least has no recoil (I love mine). However, 77grain 5.56 has far better terminal ballistics than a pistol caliber. Im not worried about ammo cost or noise on a defensive gun. I can put a suppressor on it if I needed to. I look at short ARs as 200-300 yard guns anyway, in which case you still get good ballistics, with the right ammo.
@GAguns To put numbers on this that prove you wrong, 950 ft-lbs from a 10.5" or 11.5" barrel is going to do a LOT more damage than 400 ft-lbs from the average 9mm. It's going faster, so it will be more accurate at distance, too.
I respect where you're coming from, but save for suppressing and going 147gr 9mm, it's really not better.
@@phil2082 agreed 👍
My MPX does the job with less recoil
@yockhunter My friend's MPx he absolutely hated for being absurdly loud and having very snappy recoil. The folding brace he had on it was not comfortable on the cheek, and the suppressor with action was louder than his other guns by a long shot, like his PC carbine.
Ss109 or gtfo.
@@duroisgawd SS109 had good velocities 👍
Ridiculous.
@@drewpackman2929 insightful, thanks
I’m just waiting on one of you cool kids that doubt 7.5 velocity to show us a real test and stand in front of it 😎… I’ll take bullet vs flesh 100 out of 100 times at any distance.
@@fucore85 Ah yes, the ignorant statement of any damage to tissue is the same…..no need for anything bigger than a .22lr, or even a knife, guys. Phone the military and let them know 😂😂😂
Bogus!!! THE M4 was effective up to 500 meters. 55g with a short barrel.
@@approachingtarget.4503 the M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel, not a 11.5. “effective” in the historical military context is not the same “effective” we look for in defensive ammo choices. There are much better choices now.
Bbg. 55g works just fine in a 10.3 😂 absolutely inexperienced take
@@Whiskey.Tango.Actual Apparently you didnt watch the video 😂
@@poortac5568 honestly, I did not. 🤣🤣 Now I'm going to have to watch the whole thing.
@@Whiskey.Tango.Actual 😂😂😂 Im referring to FMJ 55 grain 👍
Brother get in the gym
@@ExplorinInTheWoods I go three times a week 🤷♂️
@@poortac5568 do you run a bunch? You’re looking very beto o’rouke right now. Your videos have good information though
@@ExplorinInTheWoods 😂 I hate cardio, so I rarely run. I used to weight about 145, now Im at 165. I have a ridiculous metabolism that makes it impossible for me to gain weight. It took me a year to gain that 20 pounds in muscle, even while eating a lot more. It’s not worth trying to gain more weight, because I would have to do nothing but eat 24/7. I can eat whatever I want though, which is nice 😂
Short barrel AR's should only be used with 30 cal. Do not use 556 in short barrels. AR's are based on velocity which your only going to get with 20 in barrels, It's what the gun was made for. DUH (Are you a cop) ?
@@Brett.1984 77 grain does well at lower velocities. An no, I prefer not working night shifts or babysitting full grown adults, who cant seem to stop making the same mistakes repeatedly 😂
11.5 is fine, stop lying
@@phil2082 depends on ammo choice and what you expect the gun to do 👍
@poortac5568 The gun should work great at point blank, and okay out to 300 yards. 11.5" 5.56 does that just fine.
@@phil2082 glad it fills in your checklist of requirements. Most peoples are different 🤷♂️
🙄 any doubters wanna get hit by any one of those rounds at 5 or 600 yds? Yeah, didn't think so.
@@4deuce31 I dont want to be shot with a .22lr, but that doesn’t make it a good choice.
You ain't shit at that distance.
Why you shouldn't use a 11.5 ar15 period!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I used to have that mentality until I ran a class with my 11.5”. I’m old and let me tell ya that weight savings and running a K can is the tits on a 11.5. I would say the 10.5 is where I draw the line . I get up to 200fps more from my 11.5 vs my 10.3 “ depending on ammo.
@@kevmoful yeah, 11.5 is the shortest I will go, better velocities and dwell time. Less harsh on the gun too. If you run 77gr OTM or something similar, you can get decent performance out to 300-400 yards. Not sure at what velocities the 77gr stops being effective in tissue though. Ill have to dig into it a bit more.
Thumbs down for using that fin grip hold for no reason.
@@beesnakeable dont watch Chris Costa then, or you will crap your pants 😂
It helps with stability at longer ranges
A ton of people shoot that way with a rested rifle that has a pistol grip.
Your thumb is on the wrong side of your grip.
@@robsixtyfour9204 Its a precision grip that helps remove your grip strength as a factor. It helps quite a bit, especially if you have a milspec trigger.
It's a Magpul Moe. I have one as well.
@@robsixtyfour9204 that's not what he meant by grip🤦
Y'all prolly shoot for the airgun Olympics as well huh? XD
Sorry, but I've never been shooting and thought my thumb grip was affecting my shot. That's why his Moe grip rises high on the receiver. But what do I know huh